This is a forum, you can post full text here.

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People won't visit a facebook.

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Side buttons on the MX5xx series are gold!

agreed

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but I claw grip mine:(

It's very important that you understand that people are different:)

Hate people who say this, the mouse amost forces you to claw grip it....

not liking that shit , 3600 dpi only ? wtf....

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"gives"? no, nothing "gives" you 350 dpi. you don't need 3500 any more than you need 800. you can not move your mouse precisely enough to notice.

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yes, i had. and I have the 3G deathadder. and I use IE3 instead because they are just not any better. it's plain and simple a placebo, because your hand can not make movements with such precision. if it could, the friction of the mousepad that varies constantly over the surface would negate any hand motor skill that precise.

The second sentence is gold :)!

Abyssus and Deathadder BE work "WORST" at 3500dpi as I own them infact I can nitpick all day at the abyssus and DA's sensor even though I have a jitter free model.

I can confirm that for the abyssus (3.5g sensor). also, even 1800 dpi is fucking ridiculous fast, 3500 is almost retarded

it's not about fast it's more about how unsmooth 3500 in comparison to 1800 and 450 dpi.

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i was a high sensitivity player, sense 12. and 3500 isn't any better than 800. it doesn't matter what you set your windows sense to, the point is, the DPI of 3500 is USELESS.

Yeah, it'll only be useful when we're playing on 6096*3048 resolutions c{:=]--|--,`

it's not even about the screen...

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that was a while ago, i am now 3 accel 1

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no, its not. and there are no 350dpi mice.

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is an 3500DPI mouse. do you not understand what sensitivity is?

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why are you not asking for a 350DPI mouse?
do you know what 'DPI' stands for?

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You would need to play at 4.3cm/360 @ 1080p to make 3500 viable.

in theory in a 2d world yes. with 3d games it depends on the smallest angle step
practical you are right noone needs that much dpi, I mean dot per inch....1377 supdivisions per cm....to move one dot on the screen is 10 um on pad.......I need a robot hand for that......................

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If it had 8000 dpi, would it be a good mouse then?

lets be frank, nothing can compete with 8000000

but, thats ooOOVER 9000!!!!

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2173191

:D

What a load of shit.

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At least it's true shit!

Can't stand people who call themselves "true" on anything.

That means you aren't a true person then.

They're the trve, gr1m gamers from the inverted moonforest of pro mice made out of dead babies and pentagrams.

fr0stb1tt3n

2 buttons, flawless sensor, 800 dpi... not so hard but it doesnt sells

good one man

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that's wrong, there are some more. but anyways prediction is introduced by the firmware in most cases (as you can see with deathadder, logitech g500 where prediction was removed with new firmware)

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Ok let's see

It should be/has:

- S3888 which use only 3500DPI

Any sensor with high maximum tracking will do, That dpi number is your personal preference and way too high for most

- 3 buttons + extra small button for DPI changing like in A4Tech X7 series (on the top of mouse)

Again, your personal preference. I, as many others, want side buttons. See how you speaking for "all derp gamers" doesn't work out?

- simple driver which has only DPI Sensitivity Levels like in SetPoint for G9x (visible value) for rest we've got Windows mouse settings.

who installs mouse drivers? they induce most problems and seldom add anything worthwhile, so no. The mouse should work flawless without drivers out of the box.

- non changable and stable 500Hz (the most stable and without defects; switch on the bottom is completely useless)

wtf nonchangeable? WHY? Also your personal preference, I want 1000 hz too because I like it best. Button at bottom is a good idea because there it is not in the way.

- possibility to update firmware
- long life switches

naturally.

- no LEDs (useless weight; Razer's logo like in Salmosa is sufficient)

Oh you mean the 0.01 grams a led adds?

- high quality and easy to click scroll wheel (classic; no 4 direction)

naturally..

- sides perpendicular to sufrace and also parallel to each other

personal preference

- smaller hole for lower lift off distance

wut? (that's not how it works, but a small lift off, below 3 mm but above 1 mm is fine as a goal.)

- 4 small thicker mousefeets (in each corner)

Mousefeet size does not matter as long as it is high grade teflon.

- small size like Abyssus or Salmosa

personal preference

- thin, flexible and good quality cable

naturally.....

- no free space between switches and buttons

You mean so no dirt will collect? But those spaces are there for a reason, sometimes unavoidable, because production always has tolerances. without gaps the mouse will cost maybe double price. still ok?

- whole non-slip mouse body like in DeathAdder Black Edition, but better quality (no piano black)

personal preference........different coating types for different tastes, if anything. rubber, glossy, rough plastic. no piano black wtf? you sound like a fascist.


So all in all you gave no suggestion of any value mouse designers do not know already :/

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Have you ever had Abyssus or DA 3.5G?

It works best in 3500.

Maybe so, but only a few serious gamers will buy a mouse set on a ridiculous 3500 dpi, they want to chose dpi out of the box. if you use windows mouse setting to change the cursor speed it alters the mouse behavior in a negative way (yes, read it up)

For DPI profiles (i forget about build-in memory).

See, if the mouse works without drivers, it should have different dpi. build-in memory is only needed if you want to store dpi settings IN THE MOUSE, so that contradicts your want for 3500 dpi only....

Of cource non. 1000Hz has more disadvantages than advantages and you can't see the differences between 2ms and 1ms.

so because you think that, a mouse manufacturer should FORCE this setting with their mouse hardware? you got to be kidding. let the customer choose what's best for him.
also, there is a pronounced difference between 500 and 1000 hz with the mice I play with. I like 1000 hz better, because it feels better. So I cannot "see" or whatever the difference, but I can feel it for a fact.

Add more plastic for hold LED, PCB and screw.

ok let it be 1 gram less (screw is not necessary). still a ridiculous proposal. maybe the option to turn the led off, that I find useful.

1 mm is good only. Who likes moving the cursor when mouse is above sufrace? O_o

I for one don't like the lod to be too small (1 mm or below) because then the mouse stops tracking if I tilt it only slightly, which I tend to do sometimes while playing.

The real reason for higher lod is, not every mousepad or surface reflects light the same way. so for s mouse to work on all possible surfaces, there has either to be a perfect middle lod chosen, or an automatic adjustment mechanism in the mouse, which is more expensive I guess and does not work all the time (G9x).
also because of production tolerance, not every sensor lens is perfect. again if you want no tolerance, the price goes through the roof.

lower friction and quiet sound

Both wrong. Teflon has the same gliding friction as sticking friction, so the size of the mousefeet only matters on a cloth pad where small feet "sink in" more and thus create MORE friction. Sound is quieter with bigger feet, try it.

Nope... the "free space" is popular in DA
Do you like when you press and you didn't pressed?

So all your suggestions are aimed at the deathadder, why didn't you say so? the correct title would have been something like: "hey razer here is how I think to make the deathadder perfect".

For the future I advise you to talk things through on a forum first, or read a lot about the topic first

Have you ever had Abyssus or DA 3.5G?

It works best in 3500.

It's way too sensitive at 3500dpi...

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you are clueless and ignorant, I'm done talking to you.

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i want 1000hz

Hate to say it, but it's useless imo. 1000Hz ~triples the CPU requirements and stresses the USB port to the limits (many motherboard can't even poll stable at that rate which feels like eating shit), and only T-800 models and above are able to tell the difference between the two anyway.

i dont give a fuck :D

that is the correct answer.

you can feel it. I'll try to explain my feel, the threshold for initial movement as well as small movement is lower with 1000 hz compared to 500 hz, meaning the cursor will move 'earlier' but the oversteer will be smaller. oh maybe I should mention I use very low sens no accel atm, 120 hz lcd, with that a difference is obvious for me.

Don't look at the numbers and make up your mind with what you remember from physics class or whatever, that's only theory. _Feel_ the difference, then you will want 1000 hz or if you don't, then you can happily use something else

I feel no difference at all:(
It's 1 vs 2 millisecond(s). You are one in a billion:)

maybe I am picky about it I certainly don't *need* 1000 hz but why not, as I said feels better.

btw could it be the deathadder, like the abyssus, has no switch option for 500hz polling?

Sorry but no idea because I never had a Razer mouse. I only tried them in shops but I'm not into the soft click style they have:/

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nope

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That's only valid to some certain configurations. Most new systems have no problem with 1000Hz at all.

oh you, poland

- S3888 which use only 3500DPI

stopped reading here

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Most of prominent QL players use not more than 450 DPI... So 3500 DPI is an overkill.

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Honestly the Avago sensors seem to be getting better (optical)

The sensor in the Zowie AM is pretty good, and they're developing another sensor too. I know people bitch and whine about DPI, but after playing some MOBA and RTS games, I still think something like 1800DPI is needed on higher resolutions to prevent cursor skipping (minor issue).

I'm happy that these companies realize how shit laser is, and are making more and more optical mice.

I'd keep an eye out on Zowie, Razer and Logitech. After seeing the Kana and Kinzu v2, I'm pretty sure Steelseries doesn't care that much about the performance of their mice, otherwise they'd take more input and actually listen. Plastic mouse feet on the Kana? I have to spend another $10 on mouse feet when I'm buying a mouse from a company that specializes in "Pro Gaming Hardware"? That seems a bit much.

I think a company will wise up and make a mice that everyone can love. A good solid sensor, and three shapes. MX300 shape, Deathadder shape, and IME 1.1/WMO shape.

lazer mice also have an optical sensor, only they use laser light to lighten the surface.

zowie, razer. logitech of course nice. also maybe cm storm, did not try one but they conquered a niche for smaller gaming mice

and yes steelseries are seriously weak moneygrabbing whores with no decency to make a good reliable product for once. or maybe they are that incompetent but at the same time that much of hypocrites to never admit to it? who knows.

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The actual architecture hasn't received an upgrade since late 04 :>

Also the laser tracking method isn't necessarily bad, but there are repercussions as with optical.

All thats needed is a 3.0 with good build quality,non of this rattling buttons shit

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just put my abyssus into 3500 dpi, .1 driver sens.

holy shit. its incredibly smooth. dudes right about this sensor. knows his stuff.

What kind of test did you run for smoothness?

I agree with z4t01. With 450dpi in paint there are some slight jitters, mostly when slowly drawing vertical lines(nothing like the screens I've seen from other people - I think my abyssus is the jitter free version), but w/ 3500dpi, 2/10 in razer drivers I see none of that.

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There are "better" sensors spec wise.

There are also identical sensors hardware wise.

what are some better sensors?

what mouse uses the better sensor(s)?

does that mouse have any crap like forced accel etc?

how does the avago 3050 fare in comparison to that mouse's sensor?

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he frogot to mention. That it could work on most surfices not gonna like it...

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a good table. So if i wanna by mouse ineed to spend extra money on pad, no ty

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3500 dpi?

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too much bullshit .. :|

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i dno, i never really bothered to change anything at all
wmo/ball mouse and default settings ! [deal with it]

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just put my abyssus into 35000 dpi, .01 driver sens.

holy shit. its incredibly smooth. dudes right about this sensor. knows his stuff.

it's tru guise we should all glue that dpi switch to 3500 dpi and change the win sens slider to 0.1 !!! break off hz slider at 500 while at it.
14 yo polish pr0 g4m3rZ are so much smarter then the rest of the world!

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Just keep looking for some easy devices

no.

just put my abyssus into 35000 dpi, .01 driver sens.

holy shit. its incredibly smooth. dudes right about this sensor. knows his stuff.

at least it was funny the first time, next time you shouldn't try so hard, its a little embarrassing :|

lol@ all you mouse whore newbs, you'll still suck on any dpi or mouse because you lack skill.

sup?

thats kind of ironic coming from you who has been outed as a cheater on your multiple accounts several times.

you're right though, no mouse will ever allow us to reach your skill level. to do that, we'd have to download QL hook first :)

What do you mean outted as a cheater? vile adding random names onto celestials account as if my names are his? rofl

bro you called me a cheater today in tribes ascend :D

i thought you'd get the humor, you've played with/against me in a few games over the years... all of which you've managed to get banned from for NOT cheating, lol.

anyway i think this is a great thread to see at this time, given that there is another ESR mouse thread thats relevant as well. the downscaling of the dpi when its on the highest setting seems to be a pretty cool thing to do. it might just be in my head, but it sure seems like i'm getting just better performance out of the mouse.

i wonder if that BST dudes mouse which is 2000 dpi can be downscaled to 200 dpi. bahahaha, super low sens ftw. my elbow tendons ache thinking about it.

Yeah, you can :)

you're not 'down-scaling dpi to 200', you're just lowering your sensitivity.

z4t01 we all know you've cheated in q3 and now ql, we've got tons of demos and screenshots and logs. you cheating scrub, however we won't post any of it and just send it to id so you can get banned

lol@u cheater

deathadder sensor with fixed LOD inside a g9x = perfection

In therory the guy is right. I remember having a conversation with "Antigen", a few years ago (author of the Overclock.net mouse optimation guide.) Back then i was playing around with "Anirs/Aions mouse driver" (moudrv). I contacted Antigen on ESR, asking if he tried moudrv and how nice i thought it was for scalling sensitivity.
[moudrv just changes sens on raw level. so any driver or gamescalling, (no matter what input the game uses) is based on that sensitivity. Just like the dpi button on ur mouse - only on full dpi or the dpi ur mouse works best with]. He was actually suprised that it worked so well and that he never thought of that himself. He did some tests with his DA and said that he's getting insane performence increase on full DPI (and downscalling with moudrv to like 400 DPI). His accuracy on missionred.com (reflex 1&2) were improving by far.
The only real question is, how good are razer drivers on the scalling part? I tested it myself with my abbysus and at least it seems to work with raw input (just like moudrv as far as i remember).
In my opinion its something worth trying if u have a DA or Abyssus.

He did some tests with his DA and said that he's getting insane performence increase on full DPI (and downscalling with moudrv to like 400 DPI).His accuracy on missionred.com (reflex 1&2) were improving by far.

I wonder how this would be possible.

I hate how the private messages are getting deleted on ESR. Else i could give some very good answers here. I had quite a good talk with Antigen back then. Not sure if he's still around.

What do you mean by performance increase?

Did he ever release the source for moudrv?

By overall feeling and precission. Not malfunction speed or something. We didn't even talk about how it turns out in game. Just think about it that way: moudrv kicks in way before windows sensitivity slider. At raw level, direct from the mouse. When changing DPI on ur mouse from 1600 to 800 (lets say a driverless mouse with 2-3 DPI levels) u are ONLY cutting DPI and not windows sensitivity.(remains factor 1.0) Moudrv was the only way to proper scale sensitivity from 1 (6/11,1:1) to 0.5. So it cuts sens and dpi at the same time.
I can't explain it any better and maybe i missed something. But thats how i remember it.

Ahh ok, but moudrv wouldn't provide any advantage for a game like Quake Live using in_mouse 2 though right?

WM_Input is definitely bypassing that windows slider.

in_mouse 2 ignores windows slider, while it does NOT ignore things u changed with moudrv. Nevertheless i only recommend moudrv, if u want to force lower DPI with a high dpi mouse. Its also usefull if u really want to keep same sensitivity /360°, when the game only has a sensitivity slider 1-2-3-10 or can't do 0.1 or 0.05 steps.

Ahh, ok cool. Thanks for the info.

razer probably sees it like this: if there was 1 perfect mouse that lasts 100 years then who would buy rest of their mice?

I really doubt razer is the only company thinking like that.

expiration date for electronics is common practice. I saw some mobo producers just recently took up the idea for long-life parts to use for advertising: long-lasting capacitors. but that is useless as a mobo doesn't even need to last long(-er then 6 years). I am hoping for this advertising trend back to quality is catching on though, that would be amazing to have stuff to rely on again like electronics until 1985 or so..

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Perfect mouse would be one of these:

Abyssus without jitter (and maybe side buttons (i lack those))

WMO without negative accel/high perfect control speed (and maybe some side buttons :))

mx518 without prediction (it's g400) (would be awesome if it was lighter)

make one of these = epic win

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I dont get this guys logic

plus my abyssus doesnt work better with 3500dpi and 0.1
driver sens. I like 450dpi more.

I made the biggest mistake listening to that guy and installing drivers

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3500*0,1!= 350DPI
in all of used mouse protocols, movement counters are integers.
so, minimal dx or dy is +-1 count.
And doesn't make any difference where it handled, in drivers or mcu.

in this case for type conversion after scaling (d[X,Y] * 0.1) , it processed through the buffering or rounding or some other algorythms.

By FrancisOsmulski - Reply to #50
For example:
3500DPI, sensitivity 1, m_yaw 0.0052
is 2much better than:
350DPI, sensitivity 1, m_yaw 0.052

in fact, it will be in 10 times better, but this ingame multiplication, which operates in float.

by doing this statement:

"If you set sensitivity in driver on 0.1 you will get 350 non interpolated DPI which not the same as 450DPI and 0.7(7). It's too much better."

you approve that you are clueless and ignorant.

lol, its really simple to see how much your mouse improves doing this. on both my friends DA3.5 and my abyssus the difference is fairly drastic - you notice the cursor feels like it glides on 3500/10 as opposed to feeling rather 'slippery' on 450 dpi.

the pinpoint accuracy has definitely increased, in tribes ascend i am able to land shots further out than i was able to before because i can direct my disks/bullets to a more precise location at large distances.

a rl friend of mine that plays t:a as well feels like his mouse has improved significantly since changing the DPI and driver settings.

i'm sure a lot of mouses by razer etc function in a similar way.

It's useless to have 3500 dpi, you hand can't make such small movements. Besides that it fucks up accel

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Well, you can still try Razer's forum.....

lol, what happened here?

Newstyle Walter edit

lol, its really simple to see how much your mouse improves doing this. on both my friends DA3.5, my cousins and brothers and my abyssus the difference is mildly amazingly drastic - you notice the cursor feels like it glides on 35000/1 as opposed to feeling rather 'slippery' and 'swampy' on 450 dpi.

the pinpoint accuracy and my sex life has definitely increased, in tribes ascend i am able to land shots further out than i was able to before because i can direct my disks/bullets to a more precise location at large distances and my cum shots land right in the eye.

a rl friend of mine that plays t:a and with my balls as well feels like his mouse has improved significantly since changing the DPI and driver settings and his aids are cured.

i'm sure a lot of mouses by razer etc function in a similar way.

also, buy extra thick gold cables for your mouse, your accuracy will increase extra-mega-fold.

bread to thin

spread to chin

emo

Let's cut our veins together!!!111!!!1

Thanks, but no thanks!

Pwned by ESR ;D

No no... I own them all. They were angry, not me. ;)

was this an admins job or did francis delete his posts? and who is mario?

Dread do been

I thought that is Giorgio Borgio.

Greg to him

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To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis Nobler in the mind to suffer
The Slings and Arrows of outrageous Fortune,
Or to take Arms against a Sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them: to die, to sleep
No more; and by a sleep, to say we end
The heart-ache, and the thousand Natural shocks
That Flesh is heir to? 'Tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wished. To die to sleep,
To sleep, perchance to Dream; Ay, there's the rub,
For in that sleep of death, what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause. There's the respect
That makes Calamity of so long life:
For who would bear the Whips and Scorns of time,
The Oppressor's wrong, the proud man's Contumely, [poor]
The pangs of despised Love, the Law’s delay, [disprized]
The insolence of Office, and the Spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his Quietus make
With a bare Bodkin? Who would Fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered Country, from whose bourn
No Traveller returns, Puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have,
Than fly to others that we know not of.
Thus Conscience does make Cowards of us all,
And thus the Native hue of Resolution
Is sicklied o'er, with the pale cast of Thought,
And enterprises of great pitch and moment, [pith]
With this regard their Currents turn awry, [away]
And lose the name of Action. Soft you now,
The fair Ophelia? Nymph, in thy Orisons
Be all my sins remembered

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Sad to win.