I can confirm on my g400 (pid:13432) - no drivers installed
(which explains why it felt more sensitive on Y axis on a flat aiming game like ET)

This is actually great news, I have a broken mx518 which was repaired so many times that I won't attempt to repair it anymore, so I was thinking about a g400 because I'm on a secondary mouse again for more than a month now:S

Can someone tell me about the sides please, I red somewhere that it's slippery and feels bad compared to the mx518. Is that true?

I assume your cable broke? :D Happend to mine like three times already, I think. Over the course of the years, this mouse seems really durable though - probably the most durable mouse out there. My mx500 I bought at release is still functioning... I still can't fucking believe it...

I use a ms 1.1a and this mouse feels like a piece of plastic with lose pieces all over the place.

But my aim has improved with the ms 1.1a so I assume it's not that bad afterall.

sadly no:(
I repaired the cable many times, just like I replaced the sensor once, both were piece of cake tbh:p

The whole bottom came apart (literally). I glued it together than it just broke at a different place a few days later. The problem is that I have the old model with the MX feet, so I can't use new MX518s as donors...

I just gave up on the thing in December.. it was an awesome mouse, probably the best I ever had, but the build quality is horrible.

ps.:may I ask where did you buy the 1.1a?

bought it here: http://www.nilstech.de/

thanks, (looks like they don't have it anymore)

This is exactly my experience with the 1.1 as well, coming from a mx518, it feels like a cheap bunch of plastic but my aim still improved noticeably.

But I'm definitely buying a prediction free G400 though, this just sounds like the perfect mouse for me.

have you tried the 3.0 yet? because i feel with a bigger mouse my shaft/rocket control is better.. how is the built quality?

Nah, I never tried the 3.0.

I guess it might be a little better but I really want a mouse with 1000hz out of the box like the G400 anyway, so now that I know it is also prediction free (even though it doesn't matter THAT much to me) I want it to replace my mx518 (sides worn off, crappy feets because it's rev2 etc).

Got mine for 23€ with free express shipping off amazon which is quite sexy :D

g400 for 23 bucks? thats quite nice.

http://www.amazon.fr/Logitech-Optical-filaire...amp;sr=8-1

Not sure how much the shipping would cost for other countries though.

hey, would you please tell me what should i look on the package ?


http://www.pcgameware.co.uk/images/Logitech-G400-Box-Shot.jpg

In retail stores, you can tell the difference between the older and newer versions by the package's transparent closure labels; G400s without angle snapping have the Logitech logo printed on these labels. G400s with angle snapping have no printing on these labels.



my english are not very good, where are those "enclosure labels" ? where's the printed logo on your mouse box ?

help plz :)

I don't have one, so I don't know if you can see it on the box, but if you can, I would just look for a 5 digit number somwhere (probably it's on a sticker), something like #13456....

edit.: if you can't see, just make them open for you or check the displayed sample model.. it's easy to re-close the box and tell them you won't buy if you can't be sure:p

Had 3 ms 3.0's. The mouse button 1 failed on all of them after about a year or so. Other than that I <3 it

I pre-ordered an mx500 when they first came out. such a good mouse. It lasted me until the pads wore off the bottom which is when the mx518 came out.

Now i am on the g400 purchased recently and it is excellent.

No it isn't. Sides are ok, top is non-slippery as well (as opposed to 518 top).

so at latest g400s the prediction will be removed actually nice.

however how is actually the sensor from the g400? conerning maxcontrol speed m/s ?

positive / negative accerleration?

actually i tend to buy a Zowie AM... but the g400 is a bit cheaper.
so..

Ohhh.. I'm disgusted, i just bought a g400 a couple of days ago but it does not have the right PID# ;/

Btw the scroll wheel is loose but other than that it is a good mice even with prediction.

"couple of days ago" -->replace

yes that's exactly what i thought, unfortunately nothing guarantee i'm gonna have one with a PID# of at least 13333

I would ask the seller.

Yeah but the only way to check the PID# is to unbox the product and i'm not sure they can do that :S

edit: looks like i'm blind -> "In retail stores, you can tell the difference between the older and newer versions by the package's transparent closure labels; G400s without angle snapping have the Logitech logo printed on these labels. G400s with angle snapping have no printing on these labels."

They probably got that info with the shipment papers, worth to ask.

ps : No reply sign again:((( I have to go to my profile and check every thread where I wrote something.. kinda annoying:S

didn't think about this :D

I got the g400 today with the Logitech printed on the transparent labels and it's PID: LZ13323

It feels like it has still prediction. But then again they said that PID below 13333 would have it. What that means is that not every retail package with Logitech printed on the transparent labels is guaranteed to be above PID 13333

Paint comparison between my G400 LZ133323 and my old MX518
http://i.imgur.com/wI2qb.png

it's disabled from #13333 :(

the drawings look different tho.

It definitely feels different from the MX518 (and looks that way) but the Logitech rep said that only mice with a PID above LZ13333 have prediction removed. Would be great if someone with a correct PID could do some pencil drawings so we can compare.

13333's are confirmed. 13323's could be either or if I understood correctly.

The thing about linear correction is that there's no defined to determine the degree unless tested against other 3xxx sensors. Some special firmware's have a greater degree than others regardless of sensor code. The reason? I don't know.

I believe you have one of the "angle snapping off" variations.

Edit: Here you go.

http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l482/Paci...apg400.png

Thanks for the picture, man. Looks like I got lucky with my LZ13323.

lol it looks like yours has angle snapping

That was the point.

Would be great if someone with a correct PID could do some pencil drawings so we can compare.

+ he already had mx518 to compare with (and he did). What he asked was for someone with pid > 13333

ur lines were so straight though (...totally straight) that he got the point anyways

The Original 518 isn't exactly the best mouse to compare with. It has a lower degree of correction than the G400 (and 518 v2 iirc) for whatever reason.

My G400 is uploaded with the original S3095 firmware. Pretty easy to tell the difference.

Man, do you believe that yesterday I've bought G400 with exact the same PID LZ13323? And there also was transparent labels with black "logitech" letters. And I've tested it in mspaint and the drawings were similar to yours. This is unbeilivable shit!!! Its seems we both have some pirate unofficial version of g400.

The transparent closure labels are the clear stickers that close the box. They're the only clear stickers on the outside of the box.

http://logitech.lithium.com/t5/G-series-Gamin...727/page/3

Now they just need to release a small ambidextrous mouse with the G400 sensor...

Zowie AM is what that is :)

kinzu-g400 possibru? :E

Nop

8<

Logitech doesn't use Avago's lens.

Not anymore?!?

mx500/510 used the same lens shape, as the DA's one.

They've had a custom "Logitech" lens produced for years. Even during the 500/510 era.

http://bigbruin.com/reviews/maxtill/large/PIC6.jpg
http://pclab.pl/zdjecia/artykuly/runelord/mys...bottom.jpg
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9402/mx518mx500.jpg
http://img4.itbyte.net/2011/0806/201108061241355398.jpg

The design helps with lift off distance.

Logitech is probably the biggest customer of Avago, and the sensors on those pics are also from Avago specially made for Logitech.

I know this. I was simply showing the lens differences in comparison to Avago's 2120-001 which was specifically made for the 20 pin 30x30 architecture.

(A2020/A3080 in 3rd pic)

Logitech manufacturers thier own lens and the "LED" won't plug and play with the Avago 2120-001 since it was designed to clip onto the custom lens at a slanted angle.

tl;dr G400-Kinzu not viable/cost effective

"Logitech International S.A." (next to HP and Primax) is still listed as one of the "Major End Customers" in Avago's annual report under the "Consumer and Computing Peripherals/ Optical mouse sensors" field.


edit.: oh sorry, I didn't understand that you only meant "not compatible" when you said "Logitech doesn't use Avago's lens."...nvm than

Yes, Lens. not sensor IC :P

oh,

my bad than, I'm sorry!

oh, wrong memories then. :P

lower the dosage?

Currently just bought a Zowie AM, very nice mouse, but since originally I love the MX510/518/G400 shape, I'll sell some of the worser ones and get this one as well and then decide which one of the 2 I'll finally settle with.

Perhaps finally the quest for my perfect mouse will be over...

If you part with the AM, let me know, I might buy it if you're willing to sell.

Same, though because he's in Belgium I'd probably be a bit closer to him. What I think he meant though was he'd sell his old Logitech mice to try out the new MX400 and compare with the Zowie AM, though I guess he might sell one after. Either way, I'm looking to try both. :P

Need to sell these I have lying around:

CM Spawn, MX518, G400, Xai,... uh need to check the box with mice for the rest :p

Oh and I found a PS2 I could sell on the attic.

All together I should be able to gain a buck or 200 back.

Keep your MX518, G400 for spare parts for your new G400.

I'll keep the MX518's, they've been tooled and opened up to much anyways. G400 is practically brand new so I could earn a decent buck of that.

Recently got a G400 to replace my dead WMO and i suspected it didn't have prediction, that's now confirmed I guess. Excellent mouse =)

Just ordered one, hope it will be part of a recent batch :)

got mine from amazon (but .fr) ~1 month ago and it's prediction free. It might mean that you'll have get newer one also :)

Cool, ordered from amazon.fr as well :)

Can't they make a firmware update to fix it? Sucks to have to buy a new mouse :(

It's not really a fix, but a change :P

Anyway, the MCU isn't flashable over USB.

This is amazing news!

Too bad I'm completely broke for at least another months.
I shall be getting a G400, methinks.

okay just got mine - LZ 13433 1800dpi and 3600 are inadequate for fast flicks, - tested in Source with m_rawinput "1" and 45cm/360 sens

drew some horizontal lines in paint, looks jaggy enough for me, so far so good, if i won't go back to my AM during this weekend then maybe i'll consider ordering some hyperglides mx-5

But lower DPI settings are adequate @ 45cm?

yeap 800 dpi is pretty reliable, didn't test 400 tho, look @ this comparison pic made by skylit http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l482/Paci...apg400.png

Thanks.

What's the default DPI setting when not using drivers?
And what Hz does it run on @ default?

800dpi and 1000hz out of the box. You can easily change the dpi with the + - buttons though.

According to the Logitech rep 400, 800, 1800 and 3600 come out of the mouse. Everything else you set is re-calculated.

from where? Want to buy one but make sure it has a proper pid.

www.e-gate.gr
it was the last one in stock :D double check for those stickers before buying

http://cdn.overclock.net/0/07/600x450px-LL-07...29400.jpeg

thanks man, I will probably go there tomorrow to be sure.

im slightly interested in these myself now, bit fed up with my g9 aching my hand, and i have a voucher for the uk play.com to use - just warey on ordering one if it arrives and its one of the perdition models..

wow awesome news
gonna buy one without prediction soon. that was the only thing what prevented me from buying one.

what dpi/hz do you guys recommend? [45cm/360°]

400 dpi 1000 hz (= no drivers and use the (-) button to reduce the dpi from 800 (boot default) to 400)

Using the "sealing sticker method here at Best Buy in Northern VA I got one with PID LZ13233. I can confirm that this mouse does have angle snapping (it is before the "magic" number). However it was sealed with stickers on the box that have LOGITECH on the sealing stickers. So it looks like the Logitech sealing sticker method of identification is sometimes wrong.

I just though I should let you all know that the sealing sticker method for identifying the proper G400 mouse is not 100% correct

Return it :)

PID 13633 and there's certainly much less prediction than the mx518.

I can't draw a long flat line but only small ones so there's only a tiny amount of prediction (that certainly makes ZERO difference in game).

Looks like I finally have my perfect mouse and won't need to think about any other mouse for a while. Yay!

did any1 order it from amazon.de yet?

13633 \o/

i have same number also from amazon. :]

13823 here so i wouldn't worry about it, they seem to be getting newer ones every time.

13423, clearly no prediction comparing it with the older G400 \o/

Went to a local store and asked if I could see the PID before I bought it so I was pretty sure.

Just ordered one... Can't wait!

Bought a prediction free one (LZ146HG) and I have to say tracking is excellent (on par with my DA3g). The left mouse button is a bit loose which is a little annoying. Not sure yet if I keep it or not.
Logitech really should swallow the bitter pill and put these internals into the G100 and re-release it worldwide. Without a doubt it would be a massive hit.

edit: Any way to fix the loose button? Or should I just return it?:/ Might be a problem with newer series as I saw similar comments on ocn.

If by loose button you mean there is a gap between the plastic shell and the switch inside the mouse, I fixed that on my mx510 by opening it and glued a bit of paper on the part of the shell which push the switch in order to fill the void.

you can open it and put some tape over the switch, instead of putting it on the sticks.
Someone else also fixed it by filing of something, to be able to turn the screw close to it further in.

They should just plant this thing into over 9000 shapes and be done with it. Perfect mice for all!

anybody used the logitech gaming software? What about report rate? kept the default?

I just bought mine today... It's a very nice mouse and it's definitely different than the mx518 (and currently I don't hit a single shit with it, which is a bit frustrating:D). If I would need to pick I would say the mx518 (the old one with the mx feet) is a better mouse, but this is also very nice.

I still have the random sens changes and since this is my third mouse and my second motherboard, I think its safe to say it's QL what's causing it (I never had it in any other game anyway).

u tried creating another account?

I can't I already have two, one for playing and one for demo playback only. But I reseted my account several times on all three machines I have.

just some people has fixed it by creating another account :F

ty, I will ask support then.

There is no fix for the sensitivity bug, it might be the way Quake Live works with Windows even with in_mouse 2. I'm still trying to figure it out :(

Doesn't fix it :(

bodzo said it worked for him =o

I've created multiple accounts, no luck :\

Just asked for a refund. After playing a lot for a whole weekend with various different games, I concluded that it's not for me, and I especially dislike the new large skeets.
It's a good mouse indeed, but not good enough, and 35€ is a lot of money (to me) for something what is a stepback compared to my (broken) mx518. I will just keep playing with my secondary mouse and buy a used mx5?? as soon as I can find one. :/

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Logitech-MX518-Lase...4cfd976d24

thanks, but 910-000616 comes with the new non-mx skeets, and if i would change my mind and want one, I can have a new one here for 35€.

but thanks again..

Couldn't you just swap the bottom part? old 518<>G400 Bit expensive though, or just put small skates on the G400 if that's your only problem with it.

The problem with my mx518 is that the bottom part is broken into pieces...

Dunno, I had no control with the big skates. It's hard to describe, but it was too slippery and I was moving the mouse more than I should had, even with lower sens.

I'm short on money, so I can only have things now what I can use:S The shop is a few blocks away, so I already returned.

I only play a few games each night (6-8 hours/week), so I'm ok with this shitty dual optical atm, it's still working flawlessly just makes my hand hurt a lot.

I already asked some ppl to look up some broken mx5?? for me, so there is hope:)

I have had the same problem too... it just doesn't feel the same =<

Things like this always reminds me about this Douglas Adams "rule":

1) everything that’s already in the world when you’re born is just normal;

2) anything that gets invented between then and before you turn thirty is incredibly exciting and creative and with any luck you can make a career out of it;

3) anything that gets invented after you’re thirty is against the natural order of things and the beginning of the end of civilisation as we know it until it’s been around for about ten years when it gradually turns out to be alright really.

I naturally try to get a non-biased objective view on things all the time, but when I think about CRT vs LCD monitors, MX vs "NEW" mouse skates, COD1 vs COD7 or just about (almost) everything what's new......... I find it really hard to believe those changes are all good, and it's only me who got problems with them:(

man I think u r a little paranoid :((

connection, sensitivity bug, g400 sucking for u, shooting 3 keels behind, being attacked from ppl that don’t know u… Nothing that you have, you like... even ur low ping!

u either are the unluckiest person on earth or something is wrong...

I got the g400 too and it sucked the first day only, since I needed to get used to it. After that, it pawned. Also, I recommend decreasing the sensitivity a little with g400, since it's lighter.

imo keep it and have a little faith in it. At this point, I think it's everything in ur mind :(

:(

"man I think u r a little paranoid :((..........
.....................imo keep it and have a little faith in it...."

So I did not tell you but I actually went to an other shop a few days later and bought an other one, and put all my faith and optimism into it.
I'm trying hard as much as I can but this is a gimmick cheap remake nothing else. I forced myself to think positive about it and practice and test out things, but it's just useless.
I'm down to sens values where my 380mm wide pad not enough for a 360, and still can't stop the mouse. I can't shaft, rail or do anything anymore, not even turning at corners sometimes. And because so much time have passed.. I don't think I ever will with this mouse.
The side is slippery, the wheel is rubbish, the right button is a joke and the big skates are gliding uncontrollably fast on my pad, it feels like the mouse is hovering without any kind of friction. The only things what resembles the 518 is the same shape, but I can't aim with this one:/

I had some money for a new mouse and some faith in this, and I lost both and have nothing to play Quake with:(

I can give u my old mx518 (free of course), if it doesn't cost much to send it to you. If u are interested pm me to check how much it costs.

I still think that g400 is much better though.

nah, thanks mate but it's just a fucking mouse... I adapt or I die:D
I'm just whining because I was right and it was not just only in my mind, this is indeed not for me:)

the only difference really affecting you, are the actually "better" mousefeet of the G400 compared to the ones of the mx518v1.
You can't write the mouse to shit, just because the glides actually offer better glide.

Maybe try a slower mousepad then, which one do you use btw?

It's also that the side is too slippery and sometimes the mouse just goes out of my hand... the right button is "weak" and the wheel feels like warm shit... the new thinner cable also has more shape memory, and because I have my cable coming down from above the mouse, this new one applies a strange drag to the front of the mouse sometimes (the old cable of the mx518 was heavier and shittier, but somehow it had much less memory and moved more easily). so it's not only the skates.

I use the 5L.. I think I will just sandpaper the bottom when the official skates will worn out, and put some small mx ones there.

Don't worry I will adapt somehow, perhaps one year from now, I gonna like it just as much as I like the mx518.. but i still think it's a worse mouse if you compare the two. The only thing I can flame about the original mx518 is the prediction, but other than that, it was a perfect mouse for me:/

btw do u use accel?

no accel

I had the impression that the sensitivity bug happens only to ppl that use accel. I might be wrong though.

Well it started when I was experimenting with accel, but I do not use it anymore and every related cvar is cleared or "0" now.

ps.: I don't think I'm crazy btw if that matters at all to you.

I am sure u think u r not, me also ;)

still a bit weird and funny all the things that happen on ur pc :p

PC is fine. I just checked (especially for you), and steam+origin+standalone adds up to 1.2TB of games installed, and they are all working without a single instance of netcode or sensitivity problem:)

They're just skates. Slap an old MX518 bottom on it or add different ones.

I have pld 3 days with it and it seems like the first mouse to top mx500

Do you still like it? What sens and grip style do you use?

yes, I wish I had this from the start. I use claw grip and high sense (21,5cm for 360), no accel.

the rockets are so much better. Was always my weakness in ql, but now rl is probably my favorite weapon. Rail and movement are a little better too. For lg I didn’t notice any significant difference, but since g400 is lighter than the mx518 that I was using, I decreased the sense a liitle and that alone probably will help.

First mouse in ql that I am happy with. It came a little too late though.

Thx, gonna give it a try too then. I actually started playing quake live with the G5 but the sensor couldn't handle anything other than very high sens and would skip a lot on quick turns. G400 sounds like a flawless mouse at lowish dpi, so I'm quite excited :)

Hope u will like it :). Don't expect much from the start though (excitement tends to do that). Give it few days to get used to it.

Got one (LZ139HG), but haven't gamed with it yet, not been on the PC all that much. However, I did have a quick play in Paint.. and to be honest, it's almost a placebo to even pick the two apart.

Guess which is which: http://i.imgur.com/ypUiU.png

easy, g400 is the 2nd :p

proper review

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX8vlwQ8A-c&am...ideo_title

Just got one in from Better Choice Online via Amazon.

The PID = LZ146HG

Is it safe to assume this is one without prediction/angle snapping?

It's "angle snapping free"

I've bought two G400's and both of them without prediction.
The bad part was that they both had loose mouse button that rattled, which annoyed me. I didn't like the scroll-wheel and the shell felt too rough compared to the MX518. So I threw them away.

I tried fixing the rattle-problem with a tape on the switch, but it felt weird. I don't understand how they can overlook such a problem.
I have the same problem with the Kinzu V2 pro as well.

Would it be possible to make a custom pcb and put the sensor and other stuff on it from a G400? Doesn't look very complicated to me. In other words could we make such a detailed pcb at home?:o
edit: checked, probably possible but way too much hassle:(

recently bought a G400 PID = LZ124AV piece of shit.
I think I need to take it to a doctor cause it feels like it's having an epileptic seizure on some occasions.

Murphy's law -of course - dictates that my purchase MUST have happened BEFORE I've seen this thread.

I am very surprised to hear that Logitech changed this! And impressed that they show signs of listening to their customers.

I happen to have two G400's that i got for free, the first one from Logitech support when my mx518 died and I couldnt get a replacement, and the 2nd one from pulling the ol' switcheroo at Best Buy after I realized that the G400 and MX518 were exactly the same size.

I've had the 2nd one from best buy in a box for 3 months now, waiting to use it as a backup if necessary.. I would have *never* guessed that what was contained within is actually a newer version with a "perfect sensor". Christmas hit early this year, apparently =)



What I *would* like to know, is if Logitech's software can confidently be installed now?

I remember hearing of issues with input through the mouse when using their software, so I have avoided doing so the entire time I've had it. I usually would steer clear of Logitech's software with all the issues that people have reported it causing in various devices in the past, but I read that it allows for the top 3 buttons on my mouse to be bound to other functions, which would be *very* useful in a couple games I play.

Thanks!
-/d/n

i have the LGS installed from the beginning, and never noticed anything negative with them.
I just set it to 800dpi with one dpi-step, assigned the topbuttons to keyboard keys and never have to touch them again.

but then again you cheat at games.

it is at. AT. jesus christ my english has turned to shit being surrounded by fucking pidgins...

Logitech removed angle snaping . While razer not from abyssus. By gamers for gamers. Dude wtf gamers play with jitter and then for gammers ? Fuck it.

i turn mouse and rocketi me hit in nowhere becaus angle fucking life ?!

lol tourist got lost

Hi guys, i just got a brand new g400 but the PID says LZ150HG. Do u think it is angle snapping free?

yeah must be

Your g400 has prediction disabled.
source

Thanks man.

Guys, a posting on the Logitech forums confirms they haven't made any G400's with prediction for about 9 months. Just an FYI. You can probably stop worrying about if yours has prediction.

True