i would be really surprised if this actually stopped people from playing ztn but i damn sure hope so

hater :(

Best map. I even prefer it over aero nowadays :P. But with the new spawns ~.~

only played 3 times on it so far, feels weird but the spawns were absolute crap before so i think it can only get better

I don't want to start a new thread, so:

Anyone have a problem with saving Site Preferences? Cant hide shit messages about someone who came online or joined the game after update :(

... yes i think alot if not every1 has this bug. That said the bug was reported and id is aware of it.

Eh. I bet they deeply regret not making ztn premium only, seeing how massively popular and retardedly overplayed it is. I wouldn't put it past them to try and fuck it up in a subtle way, although that does sound a bit paranoid. D:

It's also the only popular non premium map in cup map pools, because quite frankly not a lot of people play dm13 or t7 on public servers, mainly because people don't like these two maps.

except that's untrue
but yeah i wouldn't mind if the popularity of ztn in pubduel would decrease by ~170%

imho they fucked it up.

I'm not a dueler at heart and the only map I can hold my own against good players is ztn. That's why I only play it, and also because I dislike small maps like hub and tox (I don't care if that offends duelers, for me it's a silly mod).

Now, before, anywhere you were on the map there was a spawn to force, you could control your opponent's movement. With the change they dumbed it down a lot I think, the opponent spawns very far away and protected, it's just about playing slow.

l2duel? :)

I'm a devoted TDMer...

http://qlranks.com/duel/player/sharpe
http://qlranks.com/tdm/player/sharpe

\:D/

I'm a devoted TDMer...

[+]

u have more duels than tdms tracked?

and 90% ztn. Plus duels last 10 minute, gotta factor that in

They fucked them up. Just so annoying lol. You usually spawn in the wrong direction as well.

Change is good but I don't like this change. I guess I have to learn to play different on ztn now. :-/

Change is good but I don't like this change.

WHY DO YOU HATE GOOD THINGS MAN, WHY DO YOU RUIN EVERYTHING FOR EVERYONE GOD ADMNITIOHRR"LNKW 235

If people don't like it, we'll just revert it quickly. But we need people to dislike it because they don't like the spawns, and not simply dislike it because they no longer can play the map the same way they always have.

Just give feedback, and it'll be an easy fix if we wish to revert.

give it a few weeks, atm its still hard to tell for example where enemy is likely to have initially spawned when i spawn at 50hp.

Is there a possiblity to make at least starting spawns more balanced? Today I played few ztns and in the beginning had spawned 3 times in a row (= 3 games) at upper ledge in rocket room, while the enemy spawns directly on rocket bridge. So you get one yellow and a plasma, while your opponent gets YA+RA+MH and rocket, rail/lg. This is quite frustrating.

You mean the spawn at the 5hp bubbles? Hasn't it always been there and cant you easily get red+ya by going to the sg?

nvm im worolcocked

Yep, you are right. Seems like I never tried to think about playing those starting spawns differenly :D

it's one of the lotto spawns, you might have just sg vs lg/rail/rocket player on the one hand (in the case you described)
or you might even get mh+ra+a kill if the opponent spawns in pg room

It's the best spawn, you never get a disadvantage, how do you end up with sg vs lg/rail/rocket player?

nme spawns rl, gets yellow, mh, lg goes pg has the advantage thx to lg there

you get sg, ra, should be afraid to jump down on possible lg-player for rail and have to check pg for spawners/attackers from lg

If u here him at rl just take the rg before u take ra get a possible railhit, free ra and then either shards lg or rl =)

yeah i do that, but it's dangerous still if you play on a more srs level

It's not dangerous if you drop for rail after you pick up red because he won't have lg. It's not trivial to play but you have plenty of opportunities to deal damage because you have a rail and he doesn't to get the next red etc.

sometimes if i hear the opponent spawn top rl and I spawn rl, i'll immediatly rush rail and i got kills out of this..
he'd still need 3 rail hits to kill me

You'd just get railed vs. good opponent.

Like twister said, in the time you get up the stairs, grab RA and then Rail your opponent will barely manage to get to LG not to mention that he would have to go half of the hallway back to catch you in the mid-room, there is no way you will drop straight on your opponent. If you are too scared you can skip RA and drop to Rail dirrectly like this you even might get a rail off when he is passing you (only if he hits the wall/door from lower YA or something like this) and then go trough teleporter (camp staircase exit with rail in case your opponent goes to top YA which he most likely will do) and then get the RA.

From there you can drop to GL, go shards-corridor/RL and have a good position on lower YA and even MH.

In conclusion, that spawn is quite nice and not too dangerous.

Just give feedback, and it'll be an easy fix if we wish to revert.

I didn't know the four horsemen had arrived.

Wait, what if only the handful of players who actually have a proper understanding of the game give their feedback, yet they're always drowned out by the masses of noobs and their whine? How do you discern between the credible handful of complaints compared to the always massive amount of whine?

The LG vs RL is a perfect example. Players who are unable to kill a RLer because they can't hit above 25% LG don't understand that when an LG is used to its full potential around 35-40% it's actually overpowered.

it is horrible. pls revert.

I'm surprised (in a good way) that you responsed to my silly little thread.

Remember something I read on the QL forums though : "My guess is that following the suggestions on sites like esr would do more harm than good to the game."

Maybe a bit too far fetched.

its not that bad honestly.

What is the biggest changes? Are there more/less spawns? Is it completely different? I can't try it out atm, but I'm really curious!

i think its impossible to force spawn people at rail now but im not sure...just havent seen it happen yet. and theres at least 2 new spawn points. but probably like 9 times out of 10 ur still going to initially spawn at lg and them at rox

Theres 13 spawns in total now, which makes 7 possible spawn locations when someone dies. 3 were slightly adjusted in position 1 was removed and 5 were added. The two rail spawns still exist but the chances of spawning there are so slim as you ropponent has to be somewhere around the edges of the map.

EDIT: The GL spawn and the rail spawns were moved slightly and the SG spawn is removed. The added spawns are the high 5hp bubbles in RL, the entrance to the stairs at RL, tele exit near GL, opposite the 50hp and the doorwar to LG from PG.

ZTN is now ruined,the map is good,the spawns were good,i dont understand why they change the spawns,because they dont like spawn frags ? its a part of the game,some ppl like to play duels because they are mastering the spawn system so well that they cannot leave any chance to the enemy to win,its a part of the game,been in all the quake series,and now you change the spawns ?
seriously,i never liked the spawns in QL,you can control them by your position,imo,the spawns must be random,you can spawn near the enmy as you can spawn in the farest pos from the enemy,and you can have the advantage or the disadvantage in both ( you spawn far so the enemy cant kill you but you can also spawn near him and get fragged,but also,the enemy can be at low hp when he fragged you so if you spawn near him,just some bullets of mg and he is dead).
but i dont think they will make the spawns like qw/q2/q3,they want a system in the spawns,so why messing with it ? especially now ( dreamhack is in a month) ppl are used to the spawns so no need to mess up with them (and that 50 hp spawn is just crap)
i personally prefer that they change the spawns in all QL maps and make them like qw/q2/q3 ( i think also like PQL which i think spawns there are much better),but like i said,i doubt that they will do it,so just plz return the spawns in ZTN,it is the most played duel map in QL ( and maybe the most played map in QL ) and it is free.
return the old spawns.

"ZTN is now ruined,the map is good,the spawns were good,i dont understand why they change the spawns"

You sure about that?



ESREALITY, where everyone thinks they know what they are talking about and few actually do...

that was a match vs bots,if it was vs a player,he would have delayed the spawn.
also,the spawns were good,most players liked it,spawning 3 times in the same spawn is not a problem,its a part of the game,as you have seen in my post i wanted random spawns not the current spawn system.

spawns atm are crap,most of ZTN duelers will say the same.

"most of ztn duelers"

ztn-duelers is such an euphemism for "ztn-only shittards".

you dont do this vs human :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1Ms5GsmKOc

you, sir, are a fucking moron...

new spawns @ ztn actually dont change anything, just less chance for a player to lose because of "bad spawn"

But it's part of the game to loose because of bad spawns/spawn rape. It was like this in all Quakes so it has to be good, no?

*sarcasm off*

I have played 15 mins with bot, spawns seems ok for me.
need to ask skilled players who played atleast 10 duels in it .

my hope is that the new spawns breathe a bit of fresh air to the map

this way it doesnt have to removed from tournys for being old, i think THAT is the conspiracy...ztn lovers dont want to give it up xD

IMHO, the dev team should focus more on revitalizing unplayed / non-competitive duel maps rather than trying to modify ones that are already solid in gameplay. Basically "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

There's a ton of duel maps that with a few small (nothing along the lines of massive layout changes though, we don't want to make them unrecognizable) changes could become great, like Sorrow, Concrete Palace, or Focal Point. Why not direct attention to these instead? I personally believe that would make far more sense.

it was broke. thx very much. also people dont play new maps irrespective of how good they are. ztn is played in prolly 60% of total duels. says a lot tbh.

the spawns weren't, the algorithm is. People complained about the heavy spawnfragging with the q3 alg, now people complain because they get spawnfragged once or twice and don't get lucky as well when they finally kill the other guy.

random > q3 > ql though random wouldn't work in ql because it's balanced, which is the worst thing a fast fps can be. Works perfectly fine in q2.

how the system works is a combination of both the actual spawn spots on the map and the algorithm. you cant judge one without the other. and ql fast? pffffft. the algorithm is fine. ztn just seems really bad for it tho.

fast fps the genre, not ql being fast.

tbh there was nothing wrong with old spawn system, noobs will get demolished either way.Those youtube vids that were posted for spawnforcing are not possible vs medium-skill players, unless youre raged and hit fire like a maniac.

I didnt play after update yet, but atm i see a lot of ztn only pussies whom game is based on spawn raping

If you insist on playing 15 yr old level designs these things will happen.

The spawn on stairs by the tele point can be harsh if your opponent just went through YA tele and caught you :)

it's still indirect though, you could leave some nades on ya low spawn even and go through tele quickly ;)

id headquarters right now

well, one thing is certain after this update, id fucked up the most played duel map in quakelive. the new spawns are absolutely laughable. take a map played in q3 for over 10 years and ruin it:) oh, and btw, yeah, spawn raping is massively reduced now on ztn, but the new spawns imo give less opportunity to get items to the one respawning. mostly plasma situated spawns. sux

why do u have an opinion:D

Revert back to old spawns:

People who hate old spawns - Plays other maps.
People who love old spawns - Plays ztn only.


New spawns kept:

People who hate the new spawns - Plays other maps.
People who love the new spawns - Plays ztn and plays other maps.

imo spawns cant make ppl like or dislike maps...

i hate ztn, and play it mostly because its impossible to play fast duel on any other map, but its not matter of spawn, but the way map is build...

new spawns wont make me play it more than i did

Eh, I don't think a good way of broadening people's horizons is to fuck up the thing they like.

But, I think (most of) the people complaining are being way too hasty to judge the new layout. I'm not against spawn control as an element of dueling, but the old ztn spawns gave far too much weight to pure luck. Too many situations where you were basically dicerolling for a 40% chance of a free kill.

when dm6 was in pool dm6 was most played map. But when dm6 out now ztn is.

New spawns are alot better.

This type of retard conservatism grows in every gaming community after a couple of years. Obvious game design flaws suddenly becomes "part of what makes this game great". The cs1.6 community is exactly the same where a moved box is seen as the end of the world and source hatered just dont stop.

I hope every spawn rape position is fixed on every map and more changes is done to make duel play beginner friendly without sacrificing too much depth(a bit of sacrifice is no problem, its plenty deep anyway).

I partly agree, partly disagree. I don't think any depth should be sacrificed, but I don't think that altering spawn layouts to minimise bullshit spawnfrag situations is a sacrifice of depth. The whole point of it is to reduce the impact of luck, not to completely remove the importance of spawn control.

i play ztn from ya only now because thats were I keep spawning.

Now the spawning player have a lot less chance to get major item... this is not good at all. Now you don't need to worry where you kill your opponent.

ztn is fucking garbage. Make it premium and move one of the other maps to normal.

new spawns howto: dont die

old spawns howto: don't die

please make aero standard (and if u want in return make dm13 or t7 premium). during the free week it was refreshing to see how many aero servers run. its a map that easy to learn / fun to play even against a better opponents, provides constant action.

best solution would be if youd rotate the 3 free out of 5 competition maps on monthly basis...

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