The only fast fps game which could have a future is a game that doesn't exist yet.
Not only fast fps game are not really popular anymore for a lot of different reasons, but all of them are also terribly outdated in all aspects.

In 2012 every player expects some sort of matchmaking, some sort of easy team creation tool. People are lazy now, they don't want to join IRC in order to join a pickup and then choose a server and then join and then pick the teams and then see someone ragequit and then having to find a sub and so on. They want to launch the game, click a button, wait a little bit and then be taken to a skillmatched game.
And to be honest you can't really blame them, add a proper matchmaking into QL and a lot of problems are fixed.

So true. Xonotic is another prime example for that. The menu is from 2000, pickup games go via irc only and the server browser is from last millennium. Too much work on details without having a real concept. Which is a pitty considering that there was a real break when Nexuiz got forked into Xonotic. In some ways it is supposed to be a different game (and it is) but in others it's basically still like Nexuiz 0.1.
Of course Xonotic will have "a future". But it's damn hard to attract new players because it's so complicated to use (for today's standards). Like quake, it's great once you learned it but it is a pain in the ass to get started if you got no prior "oldschool" fps experience.
QL on the other hand technically has everything a modern fps would need but id can't get it together somehow.

I agree, though I would also like to point out that Xonotic is only in beta stages still, and the devs apparently have much more planned before 1.0. We shall see what the future brings, in any case.

In 2012 every player expects newbies to know everything after all these years.
People are lazy now, they don't want to show new players the IRC, pickups, take them to better clans so they can catch up. They want new players to be able to launch game, click button and play skillmatched game so they can keep playing high level quake and watch stream of new players pouring into the scene.

I'm not complaining because I didn't need all of these. I'm just saying that this is what happened to me when I started online gaming in 2003 and it doesn't happen in ql that often. Dunno, maybe it's the mainstream games' feature. I didn't play q3 back then.

have you tried militia

What's militia?

q43a

this in q4




do the same but not using hte mouse, just left/right strafe


do the same in the air to go further n shit

holy shit, this is amazing

just like me, sdk needs all recoding to add all features q43a has, and to be fully usable in gameplay without anyloss or impact

its all so suppose to be done in the engine

The weapons are fun despite there being half a dozen slightly different versions of the rocket launcher, but 1v1 has no depth so no.

Dunno if you have played on some weirdly modded server but there is only one rocket launcher.

he meant the mortar, rl and hagar + alt fires. Probably one of the cumguns as well.

no

No it doesn't have a future. A games success today is based on its marketing budget, which Xonotic have none. Unless an investor steps up and spills money into it what I hardly doubt it won't have more than a few hundred players. Although its production value superior to the other trashy DM shooters like Warsow, Aftershock, etc... but it don't have a legacy that would sell it like Quake, UT or Doom. A succeed by chance, like Painkiller did is rather unlikely nowadays. So to speak the only fast shooters that have a chance are Doom 4 and that Shootmania maybe... Xonotic also lacks the above mentioned user friendly interface which is among the most needed features. All in all its no matter how good a game in its core, the only thing matter how it is being presented, in this aspect Xonotic also fails to catch up with the industry standards. More importantly, it lacks infrastructure. Servers, bandwith, anti-cheat and so on, that also would require a lot of money before a Xonotic boom ever happens.

not at all.

Minecraft surely had a huge marketing budget. Oh wait ...

Maybe it's sucess have something to do with it is was entirely new game type... It was a revolutionary idea, that can be fun between the age of 6 and 99. Tell me Xonotic is anything like that? Also feel free to name another success title without a huge marketing budget of the recent 5 years.

angry birds, draw something and LoL were very, very revolutionary and had a huge budget.

not

there's exceptions to every rule but overall I'd say he has the right of it.

I think you're trying too hard. Angry birds and Draw something is both casual mobile phone games / flash games that are non-competitive, and requires no skill what so ever... I also found Minecraft a tad ridicolous comparsion, how about you guys bring up Facebook as the next example? LoL's success can be contributed to the fact the developers got rid of DOTAs toxic enviroment while making the game less demanding in mechanical skill, but it got really big went they started to put up those tournament prizepools... Anyway if you find a competitive multiplayer game that appeals mainly for the 14-30yo male demographic that got big by word by mouth advertiesment in the recent 5 years dont hold it back.

FARMVILLE!

LoL

Question was to name a successful title without a huge marketing budget of the recent 5 years, and we told you 5. Competitive features have nothing to do with it.

As for your second question, LoL is actually a good answer. I know for a fact that its developers didn't pay for advertising at the beginning, and also that more than 90% of its players don't care about competition.
Look at the ladders and tournament sign ups. Those numbers are nowhere near the 32m playerbase as of November 2011, which now should be closer to 50m.

still wasn't LoL one of the first to implement the dota mod into a commercial product with much more polish than the free mod?

Didn't HoN come before it?

Though HoN is more of a carbon copy of DotA than LoL is.

being fun for age 6 to 99 is the key point buddy. deathmatch fps games lack innovation and constantly try to cater to a age 20-30 demographic of conservative virgins idealists who only want "the next big game" to be an exact clone of whatever game they're from.

not only is it an extremely niche audience, but time and time again the game doesn't even get accepted by the exact audience it's catered to.

In order:

yes

no

sort of


It has a future for as long as there are a few people who love it, or several people who like it. But I doubt very much that it will ever get big. It's too early to tell exactly how its popularity curve will play out.

Well, I guess it will 'eclipse QL' if the latter gets shut down entirely one day. But I read the question more along the lines of 'will it ever get bigger than QL is now'.

Pretty much the latter of your assertion is what I was getting at in this thread.

Will Xonotic ever get bigger than QL is currently?

i was under the impression ql had solid base and could only get bigger. i was wrong.

I was under that impression for a while, but honestly all of the naysayers here and on the QL forums have gotten me down.

DAMN YOU ESR!!!!!

Hehe, indeed.

Well I'm going to get a Pro sub sometime later this week to support the game (I consider it a donation at this point), because quite frankly it and Fortress Forever are the only two games I play.

I just wish id Software handled Quake Live differently than they did.

There's still some hope, but not much. :[ As always, we'll see what the future holds, but it doesn't look to bright. I hope I'm proven wrong by this time in 2013.

How's Fortress Forever going? As far as I know it is dead in Australia (as in, actually dead, nobody to play it with at all). Do you get regular full servers in North America?

There used to be a Euro community, but nowadays it's all NA.

We have daily pickups (anywhere from 4-8 daily) on #ff.pickup (QuakeNet). Usually anywhere from 30-50 players idling.

1-2 pub servers are active each day during the afternoon, oftentimes from 3:30-8:00ish EST.

:)

I'd say we have about 150-175 active players, then a few new guys every week who either decide to stay or try it once then never come back and go back to TF2. It has been growing as of late though, which is promising!

I agree with much of what has been said in this thread, but I still have high hopes for Xonotic, it is shaping up to be a great game! :D

Xonotic has absolutely no chance of becoming anything.

And your opinion is based on... ?

it provides nothing new on the horizon and has no marketing
=> FAIL

"Fail" regarding to which standards? That's my question.

becoming a success in terms of a big playerbase ...
attracting new members ...
almost anyone who sees this game has a feeling of "been there, done that already" ...
this game is already dead upon release ...

almost anyone who sees this game has a feeling of "been there, done that already" ...

That's a weak argument as it's also true for megasellers like diablo, fifa or cod. Real innovation is very rare.

Xonotic is a free game, developed by people in their spare time for the of love for the game. The community contributes a lot, and despite still being in a beta stage there is already some good stuff going on. In 2012 we had two 1v1 tournaments, one 2v2 and one ffa cup. The next duel cup is planned for 2nd June and gonna take place on NA servers. After this, the first duel tourney with prizes and a 4on4 TDM nationscup have their place on the agenda. Sure it's not nearly as big as quake live, but so what; you can have fun and competition. Beside of that it has some devs who actually seek contact to the community, which results in nice stuff like stats.xonotic.org (still WIP) which might be used in the future to integrate ladders into Xonotic e.g.. For me, the great thing about Xonotic is that people do what they do because they love what they do. Players play the game because they enjoy playing it, not because it's "hip" or they invested money in it. If you can't value things like that Xonotic is not a game for you.

That being said, you might or might not understand why defining success purely as becoming big in terms of playernumbers is close-minded.

You're trying to hard.

truth comes easily :)

Having played the game I could tell it was mediocre at best. Movement, weapons, maps....all pretty bad. No one is going to play Xonotic over games like quake 3, quake live, UT, Painkiller, warsow.....it pales in comparison. Fast paced gamers will stick to their favorite games. Combine sub-par gameplay with a non-existent marketing campaign, and you get a game that will never become anything.

Quake Live .. ok. But the rest of your list, are you serious? Painkiller? UT? Xonotic already has outnumbered those and beside of that still is in active development. Also there are new players who don't have yet a favorite game to stick to. Rest is your opinion only, though I somehow doubt that you have tested the game enough to learn about all its facets.

Future as is? I think you don't understand to main principles and idea behind Xonotic, but that' ok. So let me clear up the confusion here.

Xonotic (imho, with clearly being biassed, but that's another story) has a very bright future ahead, and great potential in reaching it's original goal: be a very good, fun, FREE arena shooter. Not much, and not more. For a lot of people (especially who are developing it) Xonotic is rather about having fun, let that being creating new things for an awesome community, or blasting said people to tiny fleshy gibs online. The playerbase is constantly growing, new media, maps, code (=requested/long awaited features being implemented) is made every day, and people are generally having fun with the game. I think looking at the game in this angle can be already considered as a success.

QuakeLive is the creation of a profit oriented, big company, with plenty of $$$ to back their efforts (advertising the game, getting proper media coverage, infrastructure, organising competitive events with actual prices etc.). Since Xonotic lacks this, and clearly as Team Xonotic is no match to id software (though thank you very much for even the thought of it :D ), Xonotic will never ever be able to compete with QuakeLive. Painkiller was a commercial product too, with massive advertising, hype and such behind it even before it was released as far as I recall, so that's a different story again. So all in all: in case some big company doesn't stand behind Team Xonotic with shitload of money to organise events, Xonotic will probably never ever be a new, competitive game most of the people are waiting for here. However, as I stated above, it's not even our slightest intention, so this is not a problem at all. Also, such a company would probably like to gain control over several aspects of the game, and I'm certain no Team Xonotic member would agree about kneeling before anybody, so this won't happen anyway. Open source and freedom doesn't go well together with conventional business strategies.
I'm not saying that we won't like to have more players (sure we do), but we don't want to compete for them with any other games either.

Well said, but one never knows what the future shall bring. :) could become huge!

My friends and I are really enjoying it. Can't wait for 0.7 and beyond!

Good post, I still don't get your aversion towards the competitive scene but ok, personal opinion.

To be short : because we're the ones who make the game less fun ( immediate fun ) for casual players.

nope.avi

I'm not against being buchered by better players. The game is all about who's better, in case you get owned, practice more - something I don't have time for anymore, but that doesn't mean others can't do it. I appreciate time spent on practicing.
My main concerns about most of the "competitive community" were coming from earlier years, when the competitive scene wanted to make a total quake3 clone from Nexuiz, by not politely suggesting, but DEMANDING stuff to be changed, while apart from brain(shit)storming they really did nothing, but flamed and spread negativeness all over the forums, IRC, and downtalking the devs (who still developed the game for free in their spare time, mind it). All they always thought about only themselves arrogantly, not taking criticism or others ideas. The only golden path was their opinion, no compromises, no looking at other point of views etc. They also managed to somehow generate quarreling even between official developers, till the point two of our core members didn't want to talk to eachother till months, and one of them almost quitting the whole project.
You can imagine how fun it was to develop in that time, or even be around at the forums.
And since we didn't really have assholes raging around before the more competitive scene showed up, you can now understand I can be a bit prejudiced about self proclaimed "competitive players". That's all.

Odd thing is, that in Xonotic we still have a bit disagreement between this scene and the more casual developers abuot some aspects, but now it's not that bad anymore, because there are no arrogant, only demanding alwaysknowitbetter assholes around anymore, but the competitive scene actually put it shit together, and helps in any way they can.

They're not competitive players they're just quaketards who wanted the game to be exactly like the one they were already playing.
When I said " we make the game less fun ", I didn't mean it as the rapefest some people like to unleash on complete noobs, I meant that we usually would ask for changes that can make the game less fun for newcomers ( usually balance related stuff ).

And even though I said all of that I consider xonotic to be a particularly gimmicky game for the sake of having gimmicks :D

What do you find gimmicky about it?

I could write more shit than on the berlin wall but the tl;dr is lalala lasergun, lalala physics with even less identity than cpm ( mishmash land ), lalala 17^3 guns if you count all the fire modes.
I'm more of a down to the basics kind of guy so it's just not my thing.

Fair enough, yeah.

I'm slowly getting used to the different style of Xonotic, but the sheer number of weapons and their alt-fire modes is kind of irksome coming from Quake's basic weapon selection.

More so I can't understood what is the point of some gun except filling an artificially tailored role.

QuakeLive is the creation of a profit oriented, big company, with plenty of $$$ to back their efforts (advertising the game, getting proper media coverage, infrastructure, organising competitive events with actual prices etc.).

:D

Had a hell of a lot of fun dueling earlier today.

Now that my picmip, gunmodel, view, etc. settings are all set up, I'm good to go. :D

Fun game, if you haven't tried it you really owe it to yourself to give it a go.

QL has a future, not xonotic. Xonotic will be like QW at best, not more. Maybe Warsow with the 0.7 release will have a future too.

Next version will have a lg, you might reconsider :)

quakelive already have a lg, and warsow too :D

Have you played Xonotic? It is a pretty different game from QL in my opinion. Both are great.

Also does QW and Ut99!!!oneoeneleven

You mean qw that game released 16 years ago with the second biggest playerbase, the most tdm activity and the best serious player to ffa player ratio of all the quake games ?

2nd biggest playerbase? you mean in quake series i guess?

No, it's right behind farmville you infidel fuckwit.

( seriously ? :D )

rotfl u say it like its a fucking achievment or something :D

Oh that's not what I meant, people tend to assume it's pretty much dead because it's the oldest and the community is really, really quiet for a bunch of quake players.

well, it is pretty much dead, like every quake game :p

negative nancy

nenenenenenene :D

One of my favorite things about Xonotic is that it has a functioning Mac client, unlike QL's, which was crashing for me about 50% of the time before I finally just bailed and dual partitioned Windows 7.

I tried to get some Mac friends into Quake Live but they couldn't stand playing on such a shitty client, I don't blame them.

i have a lot of fun playing xonotic, it feels something fresh! Also it has best graphics from all over quake/quake-like games. Easy movent, a lot easer than Warsow/QL/QW/CPMA has. It's FREE! Absolutly! The only thing still upsets me - too much unuseful weapons.

P.s. Btw, xonotic has the best netcode ever! Ping 90-150? No problems.

hows easier movement a +? asking out of curiosity.

Well, the movement in Xonotic isn't exactly easy, but it isn't exactly hard either. In this day and age, with the majority of gamers screaming for instant gratification, if the movement is too hard, it'll be a major turn off and the game will have trouble growing its community.

So, if movement is too hard, it'll be a major turn off for newbies who are just looking for some fun and don't want to spend a lot of time figuring out how to move around the maps well.

On the flip side, if movement is too easy, there isn't enough depth and intricacy to the game itself, and the game becomes more boring imo.

Thus, there needs to be a balance between intricate movement and accessibility, which I think Xonotic has. It has enough intricacy in its movement, with bunny hopping and air control, to allow a lot of fun for those who seek that kind of an intense gaming experience, but it's not so hard that newcomers are put off by it and don't want to spend dozens of hours learning how to move around. In Xonotic, learning how to move quickly is easy, but being able to master lots of the harder techniques provides a challenge. For this, I think the "easier movement" is a good thing. It is easy to grasp, but provides a TON of room for improvement and practice for those who enjoy that sort of thing. You can nail the basics in less than an hour, but being able to fly around maps and over obstacles on certain maps with lots of fluidity? That takes time and effort.

I like games with movement like Quake and Xonotic because once I've figured it out and begun to master certain techniques, it feels very rewarding. That's why so many of us play games like this, I think -- because they're so much more rewarding than hopping into CoD and destroying people right from the get-go. You need to work to where you can succeed, which makes that success very rewarding. :)

Just my two cents. Movement that isn't terribly difficult to grasp but can be challenging to "master" is movement that I like, which I think Xonotic nails.

Cheers!

i watched some early videos. didnt feel like the game had anything fundamentally new going for it. i dont even know what could be done fundamentally new in terms of gameplay in the death match genre. and since the game doesnt have anything super good in terms of the experience outside of gameplay (read web based content, matchmaking, ladders, stream support etc) i dont see why it would succeed. (by success i mean something other than just remaining a niche game played by maybe 200 or so people).