What video?

think he means thegdshow where he mentions that theyre not using the unreal engine.

http://pl.twitch.tv/thegdstudio/b/326106062?t=125m00s

i have no idea what i just read

we meat again

( Forum: RB)

but we want to see the video too :(

http://pl.twitch.tv/thegdstudio/b/326106062?t=125m00s

and RB is?

ReBorn

and whats that actually?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

heh..

i have a feeling hes just going to keep this under wraps till its close to being playable. which i think is the right decision.

I agree :) Maybe for different reasons I donno

I think the more neutral in terms of community the better. I think this is one of the reasons SC2 got so big in other regions, because everyone knew about the esport success BW(Starcraft:broodwar) had but they also knew Koreans had that locked down. So when SC2 came out everyone knew they were on even playing fields. And then once you have a community big enough with no central hubs of people(clique(s)), the environment is friendly for new players. Obviously your not gonna avoid the issue, but imo larger communities mitigate the negatives of them.


Hehe..I'll avoid other examples but one example for me was my high school in Canada. It being one of the bigger schools it seemed to me that their wasn't just 1 clique of jocks. There was so many people that large clique's weren't really an issue.

I didn't even realize tehre was a Reborn sub-forum. neat. also, I do not in any way wish it to be as fast as something like CPMA

I love fast paced shooters, don't get me wrong, but I agree. I really have no problem with something at the speed of QuakeLive. It's already sad enough that strafe jumping is considered difficult to people, let alone the speed of CPMA.

I think the problem is that it isn't fun rather than being hard to learn.

pk is pretty fast, i learned it pretty quickly :p

if there is aircontrol ....i pass.

votable..yes no problem but not in vanilla reborn

anyone saw some REBORN picture from TWITTER 2gd mentioned?

Yeah. It was 2GD in an angel's body surrounded by 2 sarges. more of a lol pic than something to hype for.

link?

"Boxart released"
http://i.imgur.com/jCqbh.jpg

It could be the wrong pic, but as 2GD + GDstudio follower, this is the only pic related to rb.

thats jesus not an angel u dumbass.

I know, but I didn't have the pic infront of me when i wrote that description.

u mad, jesus?

uhm,

we euros don't really care as much about Jesus you know.

lol like i do. but even i know the difference between jesus and an angel pic.

uhm, maybe that's just france you know

This player model pic is the only pic

That's actually pretty fucking baller... I want this game so badly now. :(

robots again ? i do like to see gibs and blood in some new "Quake-like" games :/

Oil and wires! That's all you'll get.

robot != robots

Yeah, please put some fucking proper GIBS and BLOOD again into FPS.

I kinda like the model tho, I like the sort of Evangelion touch even if I love the more robust and more brutal Q3 aesthetics. Im used to the keel model tho and it works great with gibs so go for it 2GD

aye-fucking-men.

I don't understand these modern "realistic" fps games we've got; big giant fucking explosion that kills you, and your player model just falls backwards as though its slipped on a banana. What the fuck happened to gibbing?

Gibbing is what made DM games so awesome in the first place.

Yeah. But apparently aspergers on this have lost the notion of being a newbie that loves that kind of shit, so they think it's irrelevant (check my Eyecandy is Crucial thread)

Removing gibs/blood is the right path for a succesfull esports game. No ban in germany/other countries, kids from all ages able to play, etc. Go as a red cross volunteer to some war and see some real gibs bro.

right path is having an unofficial mod/patch. Rail with blood and gibs is so rewarding

same for other removed things, like crucified jesus, smoking, blood on the floor, cursing, partial nudity and others that always made quake1 and 3 a bit more mature than almost anything else.

For me the reward is the frag itself, i agree its somewhat nice to see crap flying in all directions, but its not nice enough to endanger the reach of the game.

It doesn't have to be banned in Germany/other countries, you can just make a german specific patch for the game.

would be teen rated or even mature, meaning less sales

Would be teen rated/mature either way.

quake live was 16+ or something before changes were made (non smoking sarge :/). Now it's teen only.

Quake3 was "mature".

Anyways, why would they try to target their game for people younger than 12 years old?

Cause their fathers have credit cards? :*

Specific patches for specific countries would add work that imo isnt a good idea for a tight project like reborn.

You can program a simple boolean variable to turns on/off gibs within a minute. Presuming that Reborn does go down the free-to-play route where theres some form of microtransactions, there will be accounts. If your account is made by a/logged into via a german IP, then it'll force the variable off. That isn't a big deal.

Doesn't make a difference, games have been re-rated because of inaccesible code before. They will argument that you can just patch/mod the game and get access to the gibs.

If you so desperately want gibs the way to go would be an unofficial blood-patch, I think I remember that a lot of cs 1.6 servers had one of these running.

Also having a game rated low gives a lot of advantages especially for event organizers if you've ever visited the ESL booth at gamescom you know what I mean.

very nice model, gSTRUCTOR approves

assuming both fox and fazz are somewhat accepting CPM i'd say it's gonna be a mix of vq3 and cpm with some extra things maybe

I think 2gd is smart enough to not make it too quake and rather easy to learn - hard to master like LoL or SC2

well I can't say that cpm movement is harder than vq3 or vice versa

I can. CPM = Q1 + Q2 + Q3. It's a nobrainer.

more itemized doesn't mean it's harder

You have to learn more stuff = harder.

more moving opportunities and more movement control = easier
same style of argument
cause none of them is harder than other

Tic-tac-toe have less moving opportunities than checkers and checkers less than chess. What is harder to learn ?

But just leave it. I'm not here to say "i want to have Promode movement in Reborn". I want to have movement that 2GD describes: good for close combat and good for running on the map.

That's like saying that driving a manual is easier because it gives you more control...

Q2 is harder than all. Alone in mega room in q2dm1 you got about 20 different jumps, some of which are pretty fuckin hard (try jumping onto the lamp by mega box directly from the floor for example etc).

Harder than either of the quakes or harder than cpm?

some people find it hard to double click

I'd say both.

I say bullshit.

I say you take it personally.

cpm also has double jumping, and at the same time like 999 additions that make it by far the most difficult one

Besides I've never found it hard. It's just double clicking, which draws attention away from what benefits you the most which is strafe jumping.

It's "double clicking" at the right time, right angle, right height.

Really, go ahead and do floor -> lamp jump or ya boxes -> mh jump (directly). Come back when you manage to do it even once. Gl.

edit: those are jumps q2 players do regularly in duel, not some high end impossible f33l tricks; i.e. comparable to b2r.

edit2: cpm double jumping is not nearly comparable to q2's double jumping. the "999" other additions to strafes and "double jumping" is qw bunny hopping which is not very difficult.

I played q2 extensively and could (probably still can) do that playing with my feet while juggling 7 balls. It isn't hard at all.

On the other hand I haven't mastered cpm movement by any means. It's way, way more complex than what it seems from a spectator pov

Maybe you are right.

Can you show me a regularly done cmp duel jump that is hard to master (vid, demo)?

I am having a problem with coming up a regularly done cpm duel jump that is hard to master. If it's regularly done it ain't hard to master, now is it? I don't know how hard those jumps in q2 are so I can't make a proper comparison. But cpm movement is not hard because of some tricks here and there. It's hard because you have the burden of aircontrol which means you have to accelerate as much as possible and decelerate as little as possible - ALL THE TIME, not just on a specific part of the map.

The hard to master bit wasn't that each one of the jumps was hard (they weren't easy either), but that you had to make a combination of tricks one after another to reach to the end.

And the main difference between q2(dm1 to be precise) and the rest of quakes was that you performed those great tricks as part of the combat movements. It's something that doesn't happen at any of the other quake games, where tricks are just shortcuts, and makes it unforgettable for me.

Well I'm arguing cpm vs q2 and those tricks happen the same way in it just with aircontrol and strafejumping added.

It's not the same. I know you think so, but it's not at all. I don't know how to explain it. q2dm1 tricks were a mindfuck game where each little step counted to either surprise your opponent or be killed by him. CPM is a different thing, it's frontal and powerful. Nothing wrong about it, just different.

(Q2 used strafejumping, btw)

Ok, maybe they're not the same per-se, but Q2 sure as hell ain't harder. Every trick from q2 in cpm would be boring because and/or easy. It's only when you string something together that it starts to be impressive and hard to do. Something like 9:35 or lets say the f33l outro.

Let me try to elaborate it better. CPM is a game where you are in continuous motion, and you can use tricks to surprise your opponent with unexpected paths. Q2 was a continuous stop and go game, where you used tricks to mess your opponent shots prediction (and also as shortcuts and to reach stuff ofc).

Ah, already said the same thing above.

But if air control is the hardest part of cpm, shouldn't qw then be harder? After all, you don't have the additional benefit of strafing there - initially I didn't really know how to gain the most speed while standing still in qw until I learned that you had to start looking perpendicular to the direction you want to move in. With cpm movement you can just strafe away.

But what made q2 movement hard, for me at least, was that, as you said, all other movements mostly depended on your strafe jumping or bunny hopping skills. While it is not easy at all to bunny hop well, you can still correct mistakes in the air. In qw, when you try to jump to ra on hub and you didn't start off well, you can still make up for it while hopping to the stairs edge.

In q2, if you don't get the right angle at precisely the right time, that's it, your jump is screwed. It's kinda "fatal" - it all depends on those 10ms where you have to get it all perfect. And I'm not talking about tricks here, but vital duel jumps that can lose you a game.

On the other hand, I've played cpma only superficially, so maybe learning all the right bunnyhop angles to get around a map without getting stuck at corners and sharp turns is equally as important as getting the timing and angles right while doublejumping in q2. It's just been my experience that I've screwed up more q2 jumps than any other movement techniques in other quakes.

I already said this - having more control does not make it easier. Yes you can slightly fail some jumps but not because of the physics, but because of the opponent. A good one will be up in your face even when you do it perfectly. More control presents more opportunities for mistakes and how fatal they are depends on your opponent.

You're looking at it from a q2 pov, where yes, everything that can be done in q2 is easy in cpm, but you're not thinking about everything else that is impossible in q1 or q2 or q3 alone. It's like a ferrari vs a lada - sure driving the ferrari at the limit of what the lada can do is easy, but that is not its own limit and that is harder than the limit of the lada any day of the week.

having more control does not make it easier.

That statement is generally not true. Since you are all about giving anecdotal "evidence", here's a counter example: programming in assembler is easy and it gives you the most control over a computer, but high level languages are much more powerful (you can achieve bigger tasks easier).

The fact that you have strafe jumping and bunny hopping makes it easier in my eyes - whereas in qw if you can't bunny hop you're fucked, you can always save a jump by strafing here and there in cpm.

The fact that you can correct mistakes mid air, be it in strafing or bunny hopping, but you have to get everything just right before a double jump makes double jumping harder to learn and easier to fail, imo.

But anyway, this is not something that can be proven, you can only talk about yourself and for me q2 was hardest.

The fact that you can correct mistakes mid air, be it in strafing or bunny hopping, but you have to get everything just right before a double jump makes double jumping harder to learn and easier to fail, imo.

OK, can we then say that you think the hardest part of the f33l outro were the doublejumps?

No - but the f33l outro requires so much high end skill that basically the tiniest mistake, be it in strafing or double jumping will fuck it up; said otherwise, the room for error regarding all possible elements of movement converges towards zero, so they are all impossibly hard to achieve. If he doesn't get the incoming angle right, the double jump will fail, if the double jump fails he won't be able to preserve speed and strafe on etc etc.

But I'm not talking about high end tricking here but regular movement patterns that are essential for day to day gameplay. In such a case, the room for error regarding strafing / bunnyhopping is bigger than that of double jumping, in my experience.

And do you have a reason to think that what you said about f33l doesn't apply to normal gameplay(albeit nowhere near as hard as that)? For instance hitting stairs incorrectly will cause you to lose momentum. Now from what I can see you think that because of aircontrol you can always hit them at the right spot but you're forgetting that sometimes you're too fast and you have to slow down. Now it seems that to you this is an example of how aircontrol is forgiving because you can slow down a bit, but to me that is already a mistake because you've made a poor judgement and you HAVE to slow down. The result is jerky movement. Now coming from a game without aircontrol you see this as no problem because like jal said q2 is stop and go, but a cpm-er is just laughing at your bad movement.

what he doesn't get is that cpm is a combination of all of them. The interaction between strafe jumping and air accel is what makes it ...gay

Of course, if you screw up a strafe jump beyond repair, no amount of air control will save you. But still, there is a degree to which you may allow yourself an imperfect execution.

Yes, if you have to slow down because of a bad jump the result may be jerky movement, but this is still better than getting stuck at a box edge and not having any movement at all.

And as for laughing cpm-ers, this can be said for any other quake as well, where a less experienced player is judged by a die hard fan. Q2 players would equally facepalm if they saw you play q2.

Yes, if you have to slow down because of a bad jump the result may be jerky movement, but this is still better than getting stuck at a box edge and not having any movement at all.

No it's not better. It's the same level of horrible mistake as fail to do Q2 dj. Same level because you are in different environment and what is hard and what is not is defined by it, not by "some other game environment".

Now, as a former Quake 2 player (I've played it for 5 years or so) who LOVE movement, tricks etc i must say that it's the lack of doublejumps in Quake 3 get's me to cpm. And i've played it (mostly Duel) for another 5 years to finally play Defrag for the rest of my gaming days.

The cpm movement is far more superior to Q2. The fact that you have more elements means that you have to learn all of them and there is more room for mistakes. Fail to do dj is a huge mistake in Q2 ?

Ok, add perfect initial circle jump, perfect rampjumps, perfect air-switch at the top of you jump, perfect strafe jumping, perfect bunny-hopping acceleration, perfect deceleration to not hit a wall, do a crouch AFTER doublejump to not hit ceiling with a 90turn while you also must maintain perfect, maximum acceleration gain from bunny-hoping to be able to make tighter turn and TO NOT LOVER YOU SPEED ... (the gain from acceleration gain is neutralized by to high angle of you turn, the key is to sustain this momentum to be able to make very high-angle turn but without loosing you speed) ... all of this made BACKWARDS ! Do i forgot to say something about Teleports and OVERBOUNCES ???

It is something that no Q2 player can experience. And i'm not even mention about all weapons realated stuff. Q2 movement has lot of depth, but it's defiantly not "the hardest movement system ever".

That's because q2 players are on a niche of their own. People who haven't tried qw, cpm, etc. but think their game is the best and has the best players lolllloolololo

Just to address your bitchy side comments, I've tried it all except q4, i.e. qw/2/3l/cpma.

edit: and I would consider myself a q3 player, not a q2 player btw.

I'll answer when I'm sober :>

Cpm movement is undoubtedly harder than the vq3 and the ql ones; in fact, its really hard to hand it properly, expecially considering how many players cannot even strafejump correctly in QL.

Sounds like PainKiller.

What's so hard to learn in ql? Join the server pick a weapon (any from like 8?) and kill your enemy.
In SC2 you have tons of units with tons of abilities and tons of upgrades, plus I find it annoying to play without knowing all keys.


It's the ladder system that makes the difference.

All these questions are unanswered and probably will remain so for months or longer. If you watched your own video link you know as much as us.

I'm counting for a alpha test :P

np as long as it feels sexy

i enjoy to lube myself before i connect to matrix

from then on i make good straafing

Does 2GD even read any of this posts?

Yes.

He prints them out, reads them, hands them over to Fox who then proceeds to burn them in a bathtub of acid.

Then uses the acid to hallucinate game ideas for reborn.

Only for shits and giggles.

So the game is basically going to suck? (not listening to the community)

wololo

Hey 2GD, imo the best would be some kind of strafejumping + crouchsliding.

do you change direction with your butt?

is reborn a realistic shooter?

do you or do you not

I dont, now do you go killing people with rocket launchers?

would you like to be able to change direction with your butt?

I answered but you keep making more questions instead of telling us how many people you have killed with a rocket launcher, gg :)

is that a yes?

No thanks on the crouch slide.

For me crouchslide is the missing link that improves the game maneurability on thight corners without the abuse of air control from qw/cpma.

Second post you judge in this topic, how much till wormed own awesome input?

Well, based on my replies, you can already gather 2 of my thoughts:

Don't care for it to be as fast as CPMA and don't want crouch sliding. Also, why are you getting defensive? I'm just saying I don't want something you do. Unwrap your panties.

without the abuse of air control from qw/cpma." WOOT ? Abuse ? You can say same thing for "abuse strafejumping", "abuse JUMPING" and "abuse fast 360 turn with mouse" ?#!@#!^%$&%@*

Crouchslides has so many problems, quake 4 shows all of them.

So in your opinion strafejumping, where you accelerate but you have to stop when you need a drastic change in direction, is the same as air-control where you can constantly be jumping around? Are you trolling or dumb?

You say "abuse". There isn't anything like *abuse* in Quake movement. The fact that you don't have to stop when you need a drastic direction change doesn't mean that it's any kind of *abuse*. It gives you advantage but only when you can use it properly. And every lite thing can give you same "abused" adventage if you take less-skilled players view. They will bith even about "He jumped and get away from my rocket! FORBID THAT SHIT !"

I respec you not liking crotchsliding, but if you read the original post again, its clear im talking about the jump abuse with aircontrol (where you can jump nonstop) vs strafejump where you jump a lot but not to a point that i consider abuse i.e. alllllll the time...

First of all, it's not that i'm not like crotchsliding. They just are completely fuckedup from the competition perspective: nothing can be compared to crotchsliding in the terms of how much benefits they give, without any disadvantage. I cannot find a right quote but afair Q4 "crotchsliding" makes you smaller(harder to hit), opponent cannot hear you, you move faster". That's enough to vote against it in any game.

you jump a lot but not to a point that i consider abuse i.e. alllllll the time...

I know what you're talking about from the start. Jumping and turning around the corners is an abuse ? I'm trying to explain to you that there isn't anything like "abuse". You cannot call it like that. An "abuse" is a feature that gives you a lot of advantage without disadvantages. And air-control have lot of disadvantages (position and direction prediction, jump sound, less player maneuver) where crotchsliding have none.

Witch one is an *abuse* now ?

jump-jump-crotch-jump-walk-jump-jump-crotch
vs
jump-jump-jump-jump-jump-jump-jump-jump

I understand your point about Q4 crotchsliding, but it doesnt has to be exactly the same implementation, does it? It can be a bit slower, it can make some kind of noise, etc. Im not saying implement exactly the same crotchsliding of Q4, im saying that some form of crotchsliding would be good for the flow of the game, without it becoming the jump-fest of aircontrol (i agree that maybe abuse wasnt the better word)

From my point of view:

jump(do nothing else)-jump(do nothing else)-crotch-jump(do nothing else)-walk-jump(do nothing else)-jump(do nothing else)-crotch
vs
jump(accelerate+turn)-jump(accelerate)-jump(turn) -jump(double+accelerate)-jump(deacelerate) -jump(deaccelerate+turn) -jump(deacelerate+break turn angle) -jump ...

Yes, crotchsliding can be have a good implementation but no one ever see it yet. If it will still have flaws, it's not worth to include.

sound like a quake clone aka wsw xonotic cpma with some tweaks here and there... As far as i know he didnt talked about double tape starfes a la UT or any thing far from Quake tbh :| like multiple weapon fire etc.

"cpma" would be a quake clone? Challenge Pro Mode Arena is a quake 3 arena mod, like osp, which is implemented, so what the fuck are you saying?

Wasn't CPMA meant to be QuakeWorld for Quake 3 just with balanced weapons?
im not sure about this

They never admited it.

No. Promode (as a gameplay) was intended to take out the best from Q1(air-control),Q2(strafe jumps, double-jumps, armor system) and Q3 (engine) at the director of former Quake2 GODS.

I think I believe Jal more so than I believe you.
:\\\\\\\\

It's not about believing - Q1 don't have double jumps, ramp jumps and strafe jumps. You can always say that promode is QW for Q3 because it's meant to be fast, skilled and fun. With those terms, you can called it anything as you like.

On a serious note with all the trolling being set aside; what the fuck are you on about you misinformed mongoloid; QuakeWorld does have ramp jumps. Also please note that there is a difference between Quake one and QuakeWorld.

Finally, b8ed.

the point they are trying to make is that to the uninitiated, CPM would be a quake clone, the items are the same (i know in the details they are not), the weapons the same, the movement is the same (+ aircontrol and jumps) and the mechanics are identical aswell.

if reborn does the same thing, you can bet it will be described as a quakeclone and struggle to build a playerbase.

Movement shall be based on this game:
http://www.joemonster.org/gry/12113/QWOP

It's not easy to master, but hey it's going to be competitive game that shall require some skills ]:->

hahahah, i moved backwards

Hehe, QWOP is a classic. The "sequel" is actually a fun game.

Enjoy http://www.foddy.net/GIRP.html

Wy ju dunt luv AL|EN ? Hs muther fuker mumenten skilzaaa is OWSUM ! Me wunt umpty mup und running ...

I always wonder about skill based versus non-skill based movement. Most movement in Quake is skilled based but for instance jumping is just pressing a button and it's almost always the same height. Mario 64 has a decent movement system and you control the direction/timing mainly yet everything else is button presses more or less (there are various glitches but ignore those). You can't really force yourself to jump farther by being a better Mario 64 player. Yet in Quake you can jump farther or move faster by being more skilled. Most players can learn the basics of strafe jumping or bunny hopping quickly, yet the difference in consistency and speed of the best players vs the lowest is HUGE. Mario 64 movement is 100% if you do the right button combinations while even the best players occasionally fuck up moving in Quake (such as bridge to rail miss or a rocket jump error). I think my ideal movement system would have both skill and non-skill based movement so it'd be much easier to learn for beginners but still be just as hard to master at the top levels.

Looking at that discussion and this very thread, we can all be pretty sure that there'll always be people to disagree on what the physics could/would/should be...
There is one thing for sure: RB should allow 1 and only 1 physics.
It may take times for adjustments once it has been set (an open beta to catch feedbacks would help a lot in that case) but targetting a unique physics set with no variants is imho a necessity.

I agree to have one physic+ruleset unless it won't be a dumbed down CPM like PMX was. I'm really counting that the times of vq3/vql physic are over. Let this game has some speed and control finally !

2gd is first and foremost creating a business so atleast breaking even will be the most important thing. the fact that quake got pretty much its wet dream (a high profile f2p rerelease of quake3 with numerous modern features) and still cannot be profitable indicates that if he sticks with quake, he will make his investors rather displeased.

if i were a quaker, i would either work on opening my mind orprepare for bitter disappointment.