Great! I was very sad that sinister couldn't make it to DHW's map pool; at least it has its own tournament now!

\o/

yeeeeee

.

EDIT : Oh sorry, didn't notice the "being played".

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There is actually a match in it of Winz proudly owning a bot. ;)

Very proud indeed!

just for curiosity, is the bot with the pg the most dangerous possible? Wouldn't a RG bot be more dangerous? Or just unplayable?

So thats what it looks like with full graphics!!! LOL...

Looking forward to watching this.

*sigh* gl to all participants!

nice, looking forward to this.
Thanks!

thanks for the mapping :)

awesome, csn :>

[+]

100$ wasted the worst way possible. really, for a one map cup? why not making 5x20$ one map cups?

or some regular cup? too bad strenx was all excited about it for the first 48 hours, now he just throws the donations away wherever he can to not be seen as a thief.

regardless thanks for him tho.

ok Anon!

The 100$ prize was my call, so I'll be the one explaining why it is like this.

This cup only makes sense if we get good participation, meaning enough top players to have good final rounds. 100$/eu is a good prize for an online cup, and is considered by many top players worth participating. I don't think 20$ would do the trick.

tru dat

Good date and time, nice prizes, cool ppl around this tournament, great cup!

I discovered a very annoying first spawn combination. I don't know how rare it is on Sinister, but I got it on my 3rd game.

One spawns very close to the LG, and the other one spawns in the same room, also low, but on the other side, without exit path.

This results in an instant 1-0. Some other maps also have pretty bad first spawn combo's, but this one is really gamebreaking. The other player can get all items on the map if he's fast and smart.

Yep, just saw that one.

Did you see my last duel with kanzo on that one? The 2 spawns from 9:45 to 10:00 was utterly disgusting; RA room, with the wall behind my back, opponent in front of me with lg and stacked. Those 2 faggy spawns pretty much cost me the game.

That problem is thats not the fault of the Map or Mapper. Thats a fault of
the Ql Spawnsystem.

so adapt to it

can't you set initial spawns?

Yes, you can differentiate between respawns and initial spawns.

Yes and No.

The mapper is the one who decides where the enemy will spawn, QL picks the most distant spawn from the current player location.
This setting can be altered in the SaM menu. Spawns should be revised before releasing the map.

It was anything but most distant. I literally spawned in front of him consecutively 2 times, exactly in the same room I've been fragged.

I know what you mean, I've experienced that spawn myself.

I think that spawn is the same one from the initial unfair spawn?

Maybe it's the best to just remove that spawnpoint, because you just spawn against the wall there. I think most spawnpoints on most maps have at least two directions you can go.

Other than that the map seemed nice to me. Railgun respawntime is debatable of course, but not a deal breaker to me. But I'm curious to see how the pro's play it after some practice.

wheres the "no" side of the story lmao

meant to say "yes" lmao

The QL spawn system is not entirely to blame because mappers decide where people spawn.

if cityy managed to do it on silence, I'm sure yellack can do a quick fix here and there.

meant to say "yes" lmao

Some players claim the QL spawnsystem is broken because they're used to q3 or whatever random spawnsystem - the later prevents spawnforcing.

I can't really give an example, I just understand why some people may call it "broken"

sif thats ids problem

Which one do you prefer and which one do you consider to be more suitable for competitive gameplay?

why does that matter and what does that have to do with ql being to blame for bad spawns?

I'm just asking for your opinion since we're on the subject.

both systems are flawed, but if i had to pick one i would go with the current system. it might be horrible at aerowalk/silence where you will spend every new spawn on ya side, but its proper enough on _better_ maps.

I prefer the QL spawn system as well - there was an option on SaM where you could choose spawn point distance, I think they've been testing it out extensively on focus and finally decided on most "fair" distance.

Right now controlling aero spawns could be considered too easy, but for maps like ztn, t7, dm13 it works well. It gives the opportunity of occasional spawnkills while most of the time prevents you from doing so.

I guess random spawns suits cpm better, whereas vq3 style favors the QL spawn system.

What do you mean both are flawed, how could the QL spawn system be improved? Maybe disabling back to back spawn locations?

system works as it should in most cases, but the whole idea becomes flawed on map like aerowalk, where forcing spawn on ya side happens 8/10 times. its not so much about the system being flawed as much as it is being abused

maybe yeah, disabling back to back recurrent spawns might work. spawning two times in a row above gl teleporter on aerowalk sets a solid qui in console

Yes, we'll fix it.

Yellack, why did you do this...

http://esreality.com/post/2340990/re-my-new-b...pid2340990

\o/

Had this happen to me at few times already. IE, it's not all that rare.

Here is a few duels on Sinister from last night that I streamed. Sinister Duels

cool map imho! ty Yellack!

sweet

Will stream my play on the cup, meantime 125Fps Daily Cup live: http://www.twitch.tv/adroitstv2

afaik Ash, Agent and Evil are going to play too.

Needs a better stream, preferably with ddk?

NSX Avail?

Good luck everyone in the cup.

And for my home country ...

Gogo Baksteen, toy toy toy. Zet hem op !!!
Owja en de groetjes can Mephistio kreeg je.

.

Fazz? :D Awesome!

Some nice players so far, go go go

get better a stream, no offence to the op-streamer

Quality, lag, casters, what seems to be the problem?

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARDSTYYYYYYYYYYYYYYLE

Do you still ping 300?

.

Madness? THIS IS SPART1E!

Holy crap, the signup list looks almost as good as the faceit cups.

good job easytarget :)

edit: thanks memento

edit edit: thanks strenxs I guess

edit edit edit: kristus in finals heard it here first go go go

Damn what a dumb map! Why 100$ for that tourney?

new maps are a good thing

all classic maps were considered a joke once, and some former classics aren't classic anymore.

dm6 wasnt

its a good map

We should not be so worried about spending some money as a community. We have had the same maps for years, and if with a bit of money and organization we can find one good map, it's already a big success.

Shoutcast is just awesome !

with all the respect to the makers of this map, I don´t think it´s suitable for competitive play, nor do I think it´s fun

Do your best dude, at least you tried.

That's loser talk. LOSER!

The man is right though. I haven't played more than a couple of duels on it so I don't know if I would enjoy playing the map in generel or not. However, it was quite clear from the beginning that the player in control can pretty easily lock down the map by running mega, red and rail.

The rail respawn time needs to be lowered considerable. Else the map will be just too hard to come back on, especially if people get experience on it.

think I'll have to agree. still worth hosting the cup though, will make for a more justified conclusion

cause you lost and sucked dick. ez2talk shit l8r. CAP'N.

You know what's up.

Edit: Nevermind; scrolled down.

No offence to map makers, but it is not good imo.
You cannot always get it right, don't worry, i am sure u guys will do a great duel map one day !

It seems to easy to control Mega/ YA in one sweep and RA seems quick to get to from any position and dominant stack will take it easily.
Secondly, a lot of the positions are great for LG fights, except there is often a higher ground which a player can stand on which makes shaft better and that benefits the controlling player.
Out of control seems really difficult.

Out of control isn't very difficult I would say from my experience playing it. Aerowalk, Toxicity, Hektik, Campgrounds, are a few maps that are considerably harder to play out of control on.

this... look at aerowalk!! ;)

Sinister is by far the most difficult map to make a comeback, because the map is so easy to control, especialy with the 1 min railgun respawn time, there is usually only player with the rail and he is dominating.

.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to make a competition like that with Concrete Palace ? rapha told that map could be good with some minor tweaks in the DreamHack Summer interview (maybe these changes have been made...).

We have some changes in testing atm, cup admins plan on running a cup for it following the update.

:) Waiting Patiently can not wait to give it a try!!

Thank you! ^^

Yeah, I played it a few times the other day and actually found it quite entertaining, once I got the hang of it. :)

Damnit, saw this to late :)

the stream isnt shown in "live streams" box on esr page.
Maybe the admin can add it to the list.

Yes, I also have a problem on Esportsfrance.

I added the stream to the stream list. At first it worked out well but it's been shown as offline for a while for some time. Now it's back online and it's on the main page. That was weird.

Vods? Demos? Uhm.. interpretive dances?

You want Vods and demos while the event is still running?

I will edit and upload the VODS later tonight!

Really well played Guard, what you showed during that competition was really cool. I particularly liked the rocket jump and the grenade spam at teleporter versus pavel_.


Also, evil \o/ !!! dat comeback in the semis...

I think the test was worth. We have seen the map a lot, and between good players, and hopefully this should be enough to get whether the map is good, or possibly understand what needs to be fixed.

Thanks to everyone involved, easytarget, pyton, atomigo, strenx, sync.

Players be vocal and give some feedback. I enjoyed watching the cup while I worked today, it seemed like a pretty nice map for spectators. Lots of nice rail angles and the rg timing and gong seemed like a fun mechanic. I'd love to hear the players' impressions.

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it seemed like a pretty nice map for spectators

Specating it is alright.. but playing it is not fun

Lots of nice rail angles

Rail is overpowered

rg timing and gong seemed like a fun mechanic

Not in my opinion.

Please people... I understand there is demand for new maps in the official pools, but be patient, this is not the right map, even with adjustments I can't see it becoming much fun...

sinister > silence. silence is another cpm shit map, just have good rail click aim and push with lg...

any map u rail and lg...

evil plays so many silence games without railgun

the map is not all about aim, u need to be smart too

Here check this VOD of Silence. These two players were amazing to watch!!

Let's just agree to disagree - I respect your opinion but I find the map interesting to play and watch.

Missed all due to uni work duty, i realy wanted to see this map played so is there any VOD perhaps? :)

I will upload the VODS once i edit the main stream, I will put a link in this post.

evil is on a spree

yep

Ok I have managed to actually get these ones done and uploaded on time --> VOD's

I actually like the map, rushed way too much against evil but from what I can tell, it has some sort of ZTN/T7 vibe to it.

Something has to be done with rail though, timing it is a bit too easy which gives a rather big upper hand position.

The fact is, weapon advantage can be just as important as armor/HP items.

Take dm13 for example - you can pick up both YA, RA and mega and going centre map without LG (assuming your opponent has one) can still considered risky, but at least rockets can be considered a mid range weapon and a successful first rocket hit can make those fight interesting.

As for sinister's case - RG is the only really effective long distance weapon and there's no real way to fight it except for spamming rockets.

How about 35seconds RG respawn, this way it doesn't spawn as often but still takes some skill to properly time/sync it with armors and health?

Just a stupid idea by me, but let's pronounce it anyway... How about the rail spawning randomly during the first minute (like quad damage), and it making that gong sound as it spawns, instead of when it's picked up. Then onward it will spawn each minute.

It shouldn't spawn before the 30th second, so the guy spawning closest to it also won't get that exaggerated advantage.

Such a thing would be unique for a duel map, and I wonder how it would affect gameplay as suddenly both player's plans change when the rail spawns earlier than the 2nd mega for example.

If the rail would spawn every 35 seconds it would be relatively easy to just sync it along with MH. Seeing those two items are close to eachother it could be too easy to control for the MH controller perhaps.

Worth a shot, sounds interesting.
If someone is so eager to get it, he might just miss on a major item or two.

I love that idea tbh :D

would that justify changing the GA to a YA? :P

If not, tnz has an awesome idea :))

worth a try o:

I like that idea a lot, actually.

Other than that I find the map very fun to both play and spectate. I've had some nervewrecking matches on it already and I like the flow of it, both in and out of control.

nervewrecking matches rails

:D

jerk. :p

The problem is that it's not doable unless SyncError adds code for it. (at least from what I know)

hey guys where to get demos or stream record?

Yes, Easytarget YT playlist

I CAN SAY HOW MAP CAN BE FUN AND GOOD FOR ALL.
don't know is it possible.
Same map, but make it totaly 3/4 scale of right now map. It's a bit to tall, to big, to wide.. and ok, make rail 30 seconds...
with 3/4 scale this map would be realy great I guess.
ps. I like 1 min rail idea.

It's possible but takes a lot of time

Well what to say here! To start off with its a great looking map and has the make up of being a great map to play but it does need some tweaks. I think the biggest issue with the map is the rail gun. With it being only a 1 min spawn it actually makes it another item to control, which is all well and good but the location of it makes it to easy to control it.

Item locations are key on a map and I think in this case the rail is located in the wrong position on the map, I do not think it needs to have a 1 min spawn either. Keep it simple has kinda always been what I have liked when it comes to playing on a map. As a player I always want things positioned where I can quickly grab something to defend myself after a spawn, or be able to grab items that will help me replenish my health and amour. It seems that the weapons and health have just kinda been thrown in random locations instead of placing them in locations that would be best suited to grab and defend yourself with. The spawn points are also kind of shaky there are a few points on the map where you spawn that really give you no options for a decent weapon. Which is why we saw players being so easily killed on the map. Let me correct myself spawn points are fine, the items around you when you spawn are weak which in turn makes you an easy target for your opponent.

Example.
You are killed in the upper hallway near GL You spawn down below where the one row of health bubbles are on the other side of the map. If you spawn there you have three options for weapons but nine times out of ten your screwed cause most players are not going to go into the main room to grab a LG, Your not going to go into the RL room because it is like fish in a barrel for your opponent especially since you know your opponent is either above you at rail or in the main room. So where do you go!! Well you grab the health bubbles first and then go up the jump pad towards the yellow armor if your lucky your opponent has gone to the main room and you can grab the YA if its up the plasma and then maybe backtrack and drop down avoid being railed from the other room and get a RL. If your lucky. We did not see that most of the time alot of the kills were at the YA from that spawn point cause your enemy dropped down to the second teir from the GL where you were killed and ended up meeting you at the YA where you had no weapons other then a mg to defend yourself.

So what I am trying to say is that the map is great it flows well it has a three dimensional aspect to it. It just needs tweaking. you need to really think about being able to use the whole map when it comes to items as it stands right now only two thirds of the map is being used which makes it really one sided once your opponent has the upper hand.

The lower room off of the main room which connects you to the RL room and the hallway up above is not being utilized at all it only has a GL ammo pack in it!! Why not move the YA down there that changes the dynamics of the game completely. Maybe throw in a close quarter weapon like the SG down there also to help balance out the weapon locations as well.

To conclude the map has great potential its not complicated it just needs to be looked at like some of popular maps you see in competitions now. Every single area of the map has been thought about and it seems there is a few areas that need a little more thought. The spawn points are all in great locations. I just think the locations of the weapons and armors and health need to be revised in order to really even out the map and make it a challenging but even playing field for all competitors

Cheers!!

Thanks for all the ideas/feedback, I'll see what I can do.