first thing on my mind was: is this a joke? :x

bring on the quad runs!

Let's test it in-game and then provide our opinions, the best way tbh.

Always better with explanations Pre-Game, In-Game, Whine after loss due to the adjustment ;)

Yes I guess we need to test but still sounds good because generally Quad area becomes a mess
Most of the time, the person who took quad is like 30 hp with tons of guns around him
it was pretty weird

What about Changes for Sinister? if there is any word on that

It's on our to do list, but we want to finish a other project first, so it will take a while :/

Any word on what will be changed? Or what you've thought about doing differently?

I have alot of stuff in mind, but not sure if I'll realize all, so dont quote me on it. :D

-Improving the connectivity of the RA levels
-Maybe remove the 1min rail time
-Reworking the YA which results in the GA beeing a YA as well

Thats the main points.

i think thats in work :)

its very interesting to see how this will affect the game. since i dont play much tdm (and suck) i dont have the knowledge but maybe it will make it also better for spectators like me!

#tdmpickup is the way to go!

yeah. no.

i more like the minus guy in duels :-P

Have no fear, even I play occasionally.

there are at least some nice guys in the channel, who dont mind having a total noob in the team. some people thouh are complete idiots and will flame you. just ignore them!

looks funny

Sounds pretty bad, but need to test it.

noooooooooooo

i loved that window. it's pretty easy to suppress it with rocket spam anyway.

HELL NO! O,O

the window had potential, it was wide open and therefore vulnerable spot to shot and to shot from... now it's seems pointless imo. tho, it needs some testing, yea

it was spam both ways yes, bit to random for my liking, but ye, we'll see.

Valid arguments, but ... well. It is going to be a dreadful choke point for sure.

I tend to second this.
Maybe a good alternative would be trying to decrease the height of that ledge but I'm not sure if killing the vertical component wouldn't make the area too dull.

Ah new map variety :(

Not sure exactly what to make of this, but can see the reasoning behind the change.

Will have to try it out myself to see how it affects quad, I wonder how many dead bodies can fit in that window :)

how about putting a squish door there with 2 switches, 1 on the quad side which can be fired on to close it and the other on the opposite for the damaging team to open for a railer to peek :)

inb4 massive tower camp

maybe just a narrow doorway? that way it will limit the traffic heavily and will be rather easy to spam, but wont completely lose the element

It has the size of a normal doorway atm, just not curved

I liked how the ledge was that was the spart1e ledge. It was either a gamble or very rewarding to the attacking player since they most of the time had a rail + ya or a red. If that player went down to quad defense it left the team vulnerable but if that player managed to damage quad it evened things out.

It's really nice to see map makers care about such things.

IMHO:
- You will do more dmg to quad defending team since spamming rocket will be harder, you'll have to be more concentrated on spamming, while actually helping the railer there dodge behind the wall and peek rail the enemy.
I know you'll angle it so it's harder to hit quads, but when you play tdm for some serious time you have those rails learned and you could do most of those shots in the middle of the night with sleepy eyes :)
It will mess up the current chaos, since it will take time for people to adjust. Also it won't be so good for spamming other weapons on the quad, altho you can still spam nades from there and kill everything in the room while retaining your 2hp :)

I know people hate the dm6 feel of the quad, but when it get's out shit hits the fan so it's a game breaker.
My personal preference is keep it was, people played dm6 for years without losing much thought on the die rate of quad.

If you wanna switch it up, make a light jump to balcony since that way defenders could catchout the balcony attacker while still being able to somewhat hide from tower railer.

Nice idea anyways, should be tested before implemented, and I hope you don't rush it out.

Just curious was their ever a thought of switching Red and Quad or would it be to imbalanced on item layout?

in one room will be RA, LG, YA and MH not so far. ofc this will be imbalanced.

what date changes are planned? in december will be bo5 1/4 1/2 and filnal of eurocup clanbase. best way to do it in new year update.

I'm a little hesitant.

Why not have two limbus maps; "limbus" and "limbus_mod". You keep the (rather popular) original map layout as is and do all the modifications in a separate .pk3 file so they could be played back to back for example (on a pro spawned ql server outside of focus is what I'm referring to).

This would encourage more changes to be put forward and even implemented, as there would be no "consequences" in doing so.

As for changing the rail ledge looking onto the quad; I would prefer to see it remain so you can still access the quad via that route, but make it either more vulnerable to or more obvious for the enemy team to spot you.

Such as:

Have a door in place of the ledge; means you cannot rail from the distant angle(s) you can without warning; but it would still reward an aggressive rush.

Or

Make the ledge gap larger and get rid of the little doorway to GL; simply put a pillar in it's place. This would enable you to see the doorway from the red room whilst you are at quad; meaning an enemy would be more easily spotted if making his/her way to this ledge.

Or

Make the ledge higher than the ground in the rail room, so you would have to go up a small set of stairs, making dodging shots much harder and having a larger drop to the quad/lg areas.

etc.

Regardless, it's really great to see community mappers putting in the time to make such great maps in the first place as well as still being determined to improve them bit by bit.

Keep it up, and I hope more of your map projects make it into ql!

I don't know man. It's easy to rail from that position, yes, but the simple counter to that tactic is to place a rl or pg player near quad to block the window completely. It's still difficult to hold the quad position, but not impossible with good teamwork.

inb4 bfg instead 50hp bubble

might consider!

what, bfg or 50hp bubble?

doom2 bfg

aaaw... with doom2 bfg you could replace it with quad on limbus... imagine the purification...

I don't see the fact that it's hard to get away with quad alive as a bad thing. It's a gamplay direction specific to the map. Not all maps have to be played the same and when quadrun happens here, it's usually pretty epic. The new window looks weird. I'd leave it as it is but that's just me and I'm no expert.

Currently there's almost no reward for the team trying to set up in time for a quad, because some random player can jump from that window ½ second before it spawns with an RL.

I get your point for different gameplays for each map is a good idea, but when this doesn't reward a specific playstyle, it's a bad thing.

And no, quadruns starting off with 30 hps because of rocket spam is not pretty epic, as the player is spending 25 seconds on gathering a minor stack before trying to attack the RA area with 5 seconds of quad left. (which is already heavily defended by the team without the quad).

My experience is that if the team in control sets up quad properly you won't be able to steal it, also rewards are the same as on Dreadful. You can easily pickup 4-8 kills just on the setup.

On the other hand, those rewards will be reaped by the out of control team if they are there, and most likely they will be able to eliminate quad/take over the map control.

I realize this isn't true always, and that quad is too exposed, on the other hand I saw some really clean and good pickups during games that really affect the way game plays out. Also I saw really nice quad defends.

Good idea, but I'm not sure it'll fix the problem. I would rather switch Quad with YA in the big room. Just think about it...

I like this idea! Making the quad less vulneable!

Or maybe just move the quad a bit - to reduce the "angle of attack" :D
Instead of being attacked from more than 180 degrees, you can change it to more like 90 degrees.

Edit: attached a sick paint drawing of the idea. :DDDD

Where is the quad? I only see a megahealth!

OH GAWD FUNNY YOU!!! >:<<<<

though it was original rage comic where guy poops and it splashes back

plusing for the artwork ;)

But replacing that window with a doorway at the GL area is definetely a good idea.

Remove the little lightbulb under quad (so that you cant jump to quad from that level) and make RG spawn every minute (:D). Problem solved.

I love the lightbulb!
Wont mess with the spawntime and it wouldnt help the RL spam :/

You could allso let a 5 second haste spawn at the same time as quad so you can escape quick! Kiddin aside, I would actually like to try your changes to see how it works :)

put a pillar in front of balcony which cover the quad, make the quad on a little pillar like RA is.
With a new pillar you'll block the quad spam, and block the quader from spamming RA at balcony.
The plato with quad back entrance will still be somewhat exposed, also if you have a player on that pillar right in front of balcony he will have the upper grounds advantage on who ever comes to the balcony, meaning it won't be that easy to fly past that player and steal the quad.

Don't listen to this guy.

a redo of Q3 'new edge' would be great to see for QL >8-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR-CN53BhHg#t=15m45sec

you have no idea how many times I have asked for this map, but they decided to add a new version that is only playable for 15- days a year and that has worse gameplay and looks.

it has been remade in Q3
remade in Q4
remade as x-mas map in QL

and it is still a terrible map

I do wish they'd add it to the damn game

uhm... the map atm is fairly balanced and unique tbh, but this change doesn't improve it but makes even worse... It seems you tried to analyse the quad aspect, but didn't think well of other solutions focusing on the window which is perfect atm

imho:

- spam is not the problem, you can easily spam from the window as easily as get spammed at (well the only thing is you could make the window less 'deep' so that when you shoot rockets from quad they splash damage the spammers/railers standing behind the corners)

- window jumpers are not the problem atm, they are easily countered with ANY weapon

the problems are:

- that little ledge under quad which lets random people/freshspawners pick quad without being easily hitable from quad floor before they jump on it. In case you only leave the ladder that would make it easier to defend quad and gonna give some time to the defending team to sort out who takes it. Leave those near hp bubbles though

- you can also move quad a bit deeper into the quad floor(~2 meters) or maybe even make that area bigger so that you can't do much damage from LG floor to the quadrunner right after he picks quad

- make the tower arch smaller so the railer can't camp the quad area from this position https://dl.dropbox.com/u/11777259/shot0106.png and has to move to the ledge on the left or the pillars. leave the ability to jump&rail the quad tunnel though

i think h8m3 has some good points about how this map should be changed without ruin it.

- that little ledge under quad which lets random people/freshspawners pick quad without being easily hitable from quad floor before they jump on it. In case you only leave the ladder that would make it easier to defend quad and gonna give some time to the defending team to sort out who takes it. Leave those near hp bubbles though

That was exactly what i meant by removing the little lightbulb under quad :)

YOU (Nined) have been kicked from #tdmpickup by wision (24h for now)

They banned me, sabotagers, plz someone help!

can't you just roll over and die