ESR - DHW: Toxicity out, Blood Run in

<< Comment #2 @ 08:13 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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eJo

thx

<< Comment #3 @ 08:13 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

bl4ze

RAWR!

<< Comment #4 @ 08:14 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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hitsu

thats one fucking good mappool.

fraze wont be happy :D

12%

<< Comment #20 @ 08:35 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #4

Fraze is not happy.

51%

<< Comment #22 @ 08:40 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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hitsu - Reply to #20

dont worry mate, just repe all this european noobs with ur mighty skillzz

<< Comment #27 @ 08:44 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #22

haha ill try ;) but changing a map pool after it has been announced is just a bad idea end of story. It should either stay the same, or at worst add new maps. I mean i feel like the time ive spent playing toxicity has now been wasted, and the initiative to stop playing ZTN has just in fact punished me, rather than reward like it should.. 7 map pool works fine anyway..

<< Comment #38 @ 08:54 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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hitsu - Reply to #27

im not a fan of 7maps, cause it means dropping, which results in never playing ur strongest map.

but yeah, changin a mappool after so much time after release is silly, especially considering the change was made because of lowlife faggots which dont even play duel.

<< Comment #92 @ 09:38 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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gSTRUCTOR ' - Reply to #38

Since when toxic is a "lowlife faggot which dont even play duel" ?

You cant have all people happy 100% of time.

<< Comment #96 @ 09:42 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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hitsu - Reply to #92

first: proof of tox saying he wont go because of mappool.
second: he always whines on the mappool, game mechanics etcetc. big ego, small(compared to top players) skill
third: its one vote vs 21 guys who did not say a word.

10%

<< Comment #114 @ 09:58 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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gSTRUCTOR ' - Reply to #96

ok i must admit you have a point there, good to see you posting facts instead of crap as u used to :*

<< Comment #147 @ 12:12 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Pawulon - Reply to #38

"im not a fan of 7maps, cause it means dropping, which results in never playing ur strongest map."

pick, pick, drop, drop o/

<< Comment #424 @ 15:06 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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ZeriouS - Reply to #27

Fickleness is indeed bad.

<< Comment #200 @ 16:36 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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cha0z_ - Reply to #20

You are not bad at all on ztn.

<< Comment #245 @ 19:25 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #200

Lot better on tox.

<< Comment #279 @ 01:05 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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vinkieee - Reply to #245

What i am wondering is, how much map skills does a player lose if he havent played it for some time..

Is it like riding a bike, you never forget how to ride it.

<< Comment #280 @ 01:12 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #279

yes but u wont be able to beat someone in a bike race will you

<< Comment #286 @ 01:46 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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vinkieee - Reply to #280

Depends who has the best doping.

<< Comment #288 @ 01:48 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #286

hehe

<< Comment #294 @ 02:35 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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vinkieee - Reply to #288

I didnt read the whole discusion in this thread, but i did now and i totally agree with you its unfair for the guys who put effort in learning tox.

I didnt mean to attack you with that question.
Hope they will change to 7 maps pool.

<< Comment #295 @ 02:36 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #294

No thats fine man, and thanks a lot :D

<< Comment #5 @ 08:14 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Nico_QD

"because we think that Quake Live needs a couple of refreshing maps"
...and because of that we put to mappool ztn! newest map in the world, great )

31%

<< Comment #8 @ 08:19 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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blaze - Reply to #5

2 new maps, 1 reasonably new (new with QL) and two old, that's a reasonably fair deal imo. Toxicity has been around since like 2005 so it's not exactly new either (http://lvlworld.com/review/Evolution).

<< Comment #125 @ 10:39 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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CAREEM - Reply to #8

tox is for me new since I never played Q3 before. So is for many other players. ZTN is just crap and most boring map to play / spec.

<< Comment #127 @ 10:48 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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m8 - Reply to #125

How many of the signed up dudes never played Q3?

<< Comment #237 @ 18:52 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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zeun_ - Reply to #127

at least one ;)

<< Comment #161 @ 13:01 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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lewl - Reply to #125

if you never played Q3, then ztn is a new map to you as well by that logic

<< Comment #168 @ 13:15 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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CAREEM - Reply to #161

I never played Q3 but I did follow q3 events for years.

<< Comment #176 @ 13:43 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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lewl - Reply to #168

ok. still doesn't make tox a new map.

<< Comment #190 @ 14:38 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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dadS - Reply to #176

valid point

<< Comment #11 @ 08:21 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Nico_QD - Reply to #5

ztn is more better than toxicity, no any questions. im just talking about funny composed sentence - something like "we all needs new maps. let put ztn to pool" )

Edited by Nico_QD at 08:23 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #13 @ 08:25 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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blaze - Reply to #11

Agreed, it's a contradiction for sure :)

<< Comment #26 @ 08:44 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Frannatic - Reply to #13

fuse would have been better

<< Comment #35 @ 08:52 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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atomigo - Reply to #26

o_O

<< Comment #105 @ 09:48 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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wormed - Reply to #26

... for me to poop on.

19%

<< Comment #311 @ 03:32 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Rothaarig3 - Reply to #105

(c) Triumph The Insult Comic Dog

<< Comment #6 @ 08:17 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

megaman3

Edited by megaman3 at 08:20 CDT, 9 October 2013

12%

<< Comment #12 @ 08:22 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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gSTRUCTOR ' - Reply to #6

S F 2 C E
F
2
C
E

Edited by gSTRUCTOR at 08:23 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #7 @ 08:17 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

DNFreaK

Here come the russians .-)

But now we know strenx aint coming FOR SURE (c) strenx

I say good change from spectators view :-)

<< Comment #9 @ 08:20 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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megaman3

Told you all =P

I quite like that the DH team acknowledges ztn objectively is the better map of the two, not a matter of opinion (according to somebody with 900 elo, here since last year, that repeats phrases he doesn't understand).

edit: just so it's clear, I don't think toxicity is horrid and should necessarily be removed to fit ztn in. Might as well remove another or increase the pool size. What I think is ztn is better (fact) and possibly the best ever (opinion with some facts underneath).

Edited by megaman3 at 09:31 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #110 @ 09:55 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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kk-super_koziol.pl - Reply to #9

shots fired. and since you fail to understand anything i said ever it's our last extensively worded 'argument'.

Edited by kk-super_koziol.pl at 09:57 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #121 @ 10:28 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #110

Results

Edited by megaman3 at 10:48 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #129 @ 11:04 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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kk-super_koziol.pl - Reply to #121

eat it

Edited by kk-super_koziol.pl at 11:12 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #132 @ 11:16 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #129

Results

Edited by megaman3 at 11:22 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #135 @ 11:22 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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kk-super_koziol.pl - Reply to #132

pointless talking to you.

Edited by kk-super_koziol.pl at 11:25 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #144 @ 12:05 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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skulp - Reply to #135

ARREBATINA LA MEGA ! ! ! !

<< Comment #10 @ 08:21 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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gSTRUCTOR '

So toxic and the rest of player that werent joining due to mappool are in woot!

D R E A M H A C K
R
E
A
M
H
A
C
K

<< Comment #25 @ 08:43 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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hitsu - Reply to #10

they will just find another excuse to not get reped

<< Comment #205 @ 16:57 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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baron Railgun : - Reply to #25

This! Remember Noctis bitching about dm6

<< Comment #14 @ 08:27 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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SIHdW3W

when i think of mappools i always think about diversity cos sometimes smaller maps like aerowalk or toxicity are better choices for some players, depending of their styles or if they think they can play better defensive or offensive against someone in particular.

From a spectator point of view, now every game is going to be very similar...

Edited by SIHdW3W at 11:21 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #15 @ 08:28 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

oooo-

yay

<< Comment #16 @ 08:29 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

roychez

Will review Toxicity in the FACEIT map pool as well now (:

40%

<< Comment #17 @ 08:33 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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blaze - Reply to #16

Allright! I'm looking forward to the cups just before Dreamhack. Especially excited to see Sinister rise and shine as a new map :)

<< Comment #86 @ 09:30 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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CENEk - Reply to #17

God dammit, me too!

<< Comment #29 @ 08:45 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Anonymous (78.129.148.101)

H A R O S H
A
R
O
S
H

<< Comment #18 @ 08:33 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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wrong person

D R<3 A M H A C K

<< Comment #19 @ 08:33 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze

I must admit this is kind of becoming stupid, i mean u release the map pool, early, only to change it, removing a map that a few guys (mostly non players) complain about.

I mean its unfair to us to begin with that there is 2 completely new maps, but then also to bring in a map that we will struggle with already because of some europeans being high level ZTN players, As opposed to toxicity, which is a map that we would do better on anyway, and not to mention the fact that i stopped playing ztn completely since the map pool has been released.

I mean i spoke to my brother about it, and he honestly said, idk if i even wanna go anymore...

This is disgraceful tbh. IF u want ztn in, why not just add that and maybe aero and have a 7 map pool, instead of just doing this, as its unfair..

35%

<< Comment #21 @ 08:36 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #19

I mean whats even the point of releasing the map pool to change it anyway, and if uve changed it now, there is no reason why u cant change it again. Thinking about it, why not just make it 7 maps, tox dm13 ztn aero cure sinister t7, then noone can complain about what maps are in or out..

Edited by Fraze at 08:42 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #34 @ 08:52 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Laim - Reply to #21

Well that is a fair criticism that you bring up, they should have added the map instead of replaced one like that.

However that it is mostly non players complaining is not exactly fair.

FIrst of, there are more people not going then there are people going so of course most of us will be non players.

Second, z4muz and tox have aperently complained about the map pool. Those are rather big names in quake. I'm pretty sure that some russians are also happy about the change.

And if they would have changed to a 7 map mappool, they would probably have to make some changes in schedule and rules. This is something that i'm just assuming. So replacing toxicity with ZTN was not the best decision they could have made but it was the easiest for them to make.

<< Comment #36 @ 08:54 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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atomigo - Reply to #34

tox is a funny guy. He said something like 2 years ago that the mappool for duel should be completly new. No Q3-maps, no Q4-maps (like phrantik) and yet he complains all the time when a new map is in ;D

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<< Comment #39 @ 08:55 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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hitsu - Reply to #36

i bet he would like to play q4 at DH

<< Comment #41 @ 08:56 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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atomigo - Reply to #39

most likely yes... easy win

<< Comment #60 @ 09:07 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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ffx - Reply to #36

Have you ever seen him complaining about the map pool? If he doesn't wanna practice new maps because the time investment is to big for him so be it. Who are you to judge him if you don't know shit about him?
I doubt tox ever complained to an official and said something like this "huehue guis plz change maps or me not come" ...

<< Comment #65 @ 09:10 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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hitsu - Reply to #60

considering he said q4 devs are trying to make him weaker in game, yes i belive he could have said it.

<< Comment #113 @ 09:57 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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ffx - Reply to #65

You just hate tox for whatever reasons. The guy is one of the modest ones in the scene and a great addition to the tournament pool. I don't think he is afraid of competition and why would he be? He is one of the best tdm players ever and dominated a fps in a manner no-one ever did before and has after so far (except maybe vo0).
Maybe he needs to play a shit ton on a specific map to get the gist of it. Not worth it for a guy in his mid 20s who probably has other obligations in his life then proofing some guys on esr wrong..

<< Comment #116 @ 10:01 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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hitsu - Reply to #113

thats really sad i wont have to watch his camping and aimwhoring on a lan tourney.

and tbh i doubt word modest is ok to describe a guy who said q4 devs are trying to make his game weaker.

Edited by hitsu at 10:03 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #117 @ 10:15 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #116

It is fun watching someone hit above of what was thought possible.

Frankly I don't understand hating people on the internet, without ever meeting them and on what they write or how they do it. What's sad is raging and getting involved with a piece of machinery, virtual.

<< Comment #118 @ 10:17 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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ffx - Reply to #117

He just hates or let's say rather disrespects everyone who can aim. Probably has to do with his inability to hit more than 25lg ;). Hence his praises toward agent.

<< Comment #155 @ 12:48 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Laim - Reply to #118

I think it's more that back then it was tox vs av3k, and hitsu is a av3k fanboy. Since tox usually won and beat av3k, he dislikes tox.

<< Comment #251 @ 19:42 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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ja ja ve ve - Reply to #155

not really. av3k is known to dominate tox

<< Comment #281 @ 01:30 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Lukas - Reply to #251

Maybe tox, but not the toxinator. Which he was for 90% of Q4.

<< Comment #297 @ 03:05 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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InDepther - Reply to #251

not really. av3k is known to ~~dominate~~ brainfuck tox

<< Comment #325 @ 03:53 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Laim - Reply to #251

I don't know their statistics but the tournament wins says it all.

http://www.esportsearnings.com/players/1147/toxjq

<< Comment #228 @ 18:17 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #36

I got all the respect for toxjq as a q4 player and a Q3 tdm monster. But the guy is bad at quakelive duel.

I watched rapha just dismantle him on lostworld like 29-0 or something ridic on lan.

He's not good, cooller pegged him properly during that dm6 in q3 long ago. his lg is nothink on the lan. He's just bad.

I would love to see z4muz though.

<< Comment #252 @ 19:43 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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ja ja ve ve - Reply to #228

his lg is something on lan.

yet hes a bad dueller, i agree. its mostly his brain lol

<< Comment #46 @ 08:58 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Camma - Reply to #34

a 7 map pool wouldnt make any change to scheduling / rules, all it changes is each person banning 1 map extra, its not like you now need to play bo5s instead of bo3s?

<< Comment #56 @ 09:05 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Laim - Reply to #46

That is why i said "this is something that i'm just assuming". Have they told the rules yet ?

Edited by Laim at 12:48 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #53 @ 09:03 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #34

Who cares about what z4muz or tox say about the map pool, do they even play anyway? Not that ive seen in recent times in particular z4muz. Anyway they would have been complaining at cure/sinister anyway, so what relevance does that have to this change.

A 7 map pool will take 2 seconds longer than any other match up, ie the time it takes to ban 2 more maps. We had 7 maps at the Aussie sydlan and it worked well.

Who cares about what the easiest decision is, its the best decision that should be made, and this is definately not it.

<< Comment #64 @ 09:09 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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atomigo - Reply to #53

don't underestimate the map picking process. some players take HOURES to decide which map they want to play ;D... jk.

<< Comment #66 @ 09:10 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Laim - Reply to #53

I agree with you. That is why i said that they took the easiest decision and not the best one. The only reason to why they shouldn't have added 2 maps and made it a 7 map mappool is if they have given out the rules. Otherwise there is no reason not to make it a 7 maps.

But z4muz was playing until they reviled the map pool.

<< Comment #215 @ 17:23 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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cha0z_ - Reply to #53

From your words I bet your best map is toxshit(or atleast you are a lot better on it than on ztn). Kinda biased opinion. Everyone want's his best/favourite maps, but that ztn can bring us tox, z4muz, arrw, cooller, av3k(he said he wii go if he feel confident. You can guess on with one of the maps he is better on) and maybe other players. :)

No offence, but if those players go and play the whole skillwise/epicness level of dh will grow a lot. And we need that, especially with so few lans and no ql@dh summer. I want atleast one more dh next year...and yes, I don't care if they are lazy to learn new maps. First: they most likely are not, but at 25 age they don't have so much free time. Second: they are better players than most of the mass/have unique style. It's fair map switch, sry but it's a fakt. Stop be so negative. Yes, it's bad for you(trained tox, you are better on it than ztn, more good players will come/harder competition), but it's good for quake, spectators.

<< Comment #246 @ 19:27 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #215

Im willing to wager this map change will not entice anyone else to go who wouldnt have already, like i said elswehere, tox was not one of the maps that those people would want out, it would have been sinister/cure

<< Comment #23 @ 08:41 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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hitsu - Reply to #19

totally agree

<< Comment #24 @ 08:43 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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sonigo - Reply to #19

changing something as important as the mappool based on some fucking low skill, shit talking retards on ESR isn't how it should be handled.
I'm not saying toxicity is good or that ZTN shouldn't be in the mappool. It's about hosting a professional tournament. (edit: hosting a tournament professionally (however you want to phrase it)

Edited by sonigo at 08:44 CDT, 9 October 2013

28%

<< Comment #28 @ 08:45 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #24

I agree 100 percent :)

<< Comment #31 @ 08:51 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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atomigo - Reply to #24

Its not about "fucking low skill"... It's about who complains the most and the loudest. And as I see it, its always the same group of guys who complain the most until the mappool is more or less back to the same state. (It's somehow like in a gouvernment, where you need 2/3 of the votes to change something, so nothing ever happens, EVER!)
And, as I already pointed out months ago, that its quite useless to have only "some" new maps, if the map-picking system is drop-drop-pick-pick (idk what it is in DHW, but I speak for a general system).
What will happen until the finals, is that some stubborn players will drop sinister or cure all the time and can play 2 of 3 remaining maps out of the same mappool which was already there years ago. So it will once again favor the oldschoolers who never learn something new.
Plus I can feel with the aussies. It's quite a FAR journey that they want to make to get to the DHW. It's quite disrespectfull to change something.

<< Comment #37 @ 08:54 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #31

Its complete bull shit to change something at the drop of a hat cause a few people complain who wouldnt go anyway. It costs a lot of money to go, and we have decided to go under the proviso that the map pool was as it was announced, and to change that goes against everything that a professionally run tournament should stand for, yes the map pool was not perfect, but to change it is 100 worse that just having a bad map pool.

<< Comment #52 @ 09:02 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Nalipotanka ' - Reply to #37

I bet you would feel nice when Cypher or Evil would 24:2 you on Toxicity. You would be happy for spending such big amount of money on a travelling just to get knocked out in one sided map.

<< Comment #57 @ 09:05 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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hitsu - Reply to #52

are you implying cypher/evil wont win vs fraze on ztn?

tbh he has bigger chances to win on tox than ztn. but i guess ur just one of these lowskilled whiners who can play only ztn

<< Comment #216 @ 17:27 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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cha0z_ - Reply to #57

Maybe lucky first few frags and even more lucky jibo style +b? Yes, it's more possible to get lucky win on ztn than on tox. :)

<< Comment #272 @ 23:24 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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hitsu - Reply to #216

it depends :-)

fraze is well known for his aiming skills, and imo hes got bigger chances to magicate a win against top players @ tox, where he can just outaim them in one situation, win control and start repeing.

and yeah ztn i fun, and imo its best mappool in years, however the truth is changing it after one month is silly.

<< Comment #219 @ 17:34 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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cha0z_ - Reply to #57

Also I think the example is wrong. Fraze knows pretty damn well he don't stood a chance vs cypher/evil/etc. He is aiming to prove himself and beat "dem0n skill level players" and place good like top12. And he have a lot better chance vs the semi-pro level players on tox and that's why he is so dissapointed. I understand him, but I stll think ztn is the better choice overall.

<< Comment #58 @ 09:05 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #52

First off you are an obvious troll, so idk why im even replying to you, and secondly, Id do much better on tox vs either of them, than i would on ZTN, that i guarantee you. And regardless id much rather be knocked out on the map pool that was originally announced and i had been practising rather than one i hadnt been because a couple of esr guys posted negative comments about the map pool and the admins decided to be soft and change it.

<< Comment #62 @ 09:08 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Nalipotanka ' - Reply to #58

personally, you would stand better chance on Cure or Furious Heights than on Toxicity. :P

Edited by Nalipotanka at 09:11 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #68 @ 09:11 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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hitsu - Reply to #62

nope, it was forced by admins.

but as they are totally proffesional, and listen to the likes of you, they changed their decision. and we still wont see cooller, ash,pavel, agent, zamuz, tox, stermy - whoever you can dream of.

<< Comment #69 @ 09:13 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Nalipotanka ' - Reply to #68

Cooller, Ash and Pavel wont go not because of map pool, but because of lack of money and real life responsibilities like job. At least, that's what those Russians say. :)

<< Comment #75 @ 09:18 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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hitsu - Reply to #69

totally offtopic.

i know it, but the likes of you keept preassuring admin crew to change tox. why?

<< Comment #71 @ 09:15 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #62

edited.

Edited by Fraze at 13:39 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #77 @ 09:19 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Nalipotanka ' - Reply to #71

Good for you...but I still believe you stand more chance on other maps than on Toxicity. :P

<< Comment #78 @ 09:20 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #77

No way, thats one of the maps id feel most comfortable on.

<< Comment #81 @ 09:23 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Nalipotanka ' - Reply to #78

But still, it's one sided map...I rarely see a good match on it. It always end up with spawn frags and thats it. No fun in that. Look what Rapha did to Evil on it on QuakeCon finals...that was not worth finals and that's pure example why this map has to be out.

<< Comment #84 @ 09:28 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #81

It can be, but only between guys with a skill difference on the map, its obvious that rapha is just better on that map than what he is. Fact is its not a european favoured map. and anyway i can show u rapes on pretty much every map. I mean In that final cure was evil owning, so that should be out too then? Fact is regardless of what is the best map pool, the original map pool is the one that should be adhered too, and at absolute worst case scenario, maps can be added, however to remove maps is total bs.

<< Comment #51 @ 09:02 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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sonigo - Reply to #31

True, it's not about the skill level (I just wanted to throw in some more random insults). And yes, people just don't understand the real function of new maps.
It's about resetting the conditions, it's about adapting, it's about learning. And in the end it, the player who has the best overall duel skills, the best learning abilities and put the most effort into it will win the tournament.

And that's why the only 2 REAL top players in the EU region are cypher and evil at the moment.

Edited by sonigo at 09:03 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #55 @ 09:04 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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qwih - Reply to #31

part of what you say it's not true. There are solid motivations why people want toxicity out and they are not the usual retards who want always the same maps. Are there a massive pile of complaints about cure and sinister? No!

And i'm sure it's those motivations as well as the amount of people who agree with that line of thinking wich made DH, one of the best organizzations in eSports, change the pool, not only the whine of some retards on ESR.

Anyway i repeat: i agree that changing it on the way and how they did it's far from good. And i agree about the Drop first nonsense when you add new maps.

<< Comment #32 @ 08:51 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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atomigo - Reply to #24

*however you want to "fraze" it... ;D

<< Comment #45 @ 08:58 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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qwih - Reply to #24

Yes, probably just changing the mappool like that after you made the announcement is as bad or even worse. And definitely thigs should have been handled better.

But nowadays spectators' take and the entertaining level of the show you offer is as important as players' opinion, deal with it. It is like that everywhere and every time you have to sell your product, a sport or a show to a mass of people. This is how the world goes in 2013.
Toxicity is shit to watch, almost every fight is the same midrange crap, almost every time is played the same by every player, almost every time it's a rolfstomp. Just fucking deal with it.

Edited by qwih at 09:00 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #54 @ 09:04 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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hitsu - Reply to #45

u mirin coz of shit pc u have

<< Comment #61 @ 09:07 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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qwih - Reply to #54

i don't get wins on maps i have my max amount of fps on either, so

N O P E
O
P
E

<< Comment #63 @ 09:08 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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hitsu - Reply to #61

lol u both mirin and shit player, yet u dare to talk :D

REPED

<< Comment #72 @ 09:15 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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qwih - Reply to #63

yeah but what separates me from you is logic and the fact that i actually make valid points from time to time :D

<< Comment #76 @ 09:19 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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hitsu - Reply to #72

i always make valid point, u just not brah enough to get it. maybe if u werent 1300 elo noob it would be different.

REPEPEPED

<< Comment #33 @ 08:52 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #19

To have a common ground, ztn had to be in because harosh (lack of classic maps in the pool, by far the most played in QL and possibly the best duel map ever made)

After that the possible decisions were to remove the weakest link or to increase the amount of maps to 7. The former was considered to be toxicity and the latter is quite rare in LANs.

Edited by megaman3 at 08:57 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #42 @ 08:57 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Camma - Reply to #33

The recent sydlan in australia was 7 maps and it worked fucking fine, there is basically no difference between except banning 1 more map each

<< Comment #99 @ 09:46 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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gSTRUCTOR ' - Reply to #42

Yet intel robbed our ultrabook, BASTARDS!

<< Comment #43 @ 08:57 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #33

Its rare at lans to have 2 new relatively untested maps, yet still happening @ this lan. No reason why 7 maps cant work, id rather it stay the same as was announced LIKE IT SHOULD, but then a more even 'common ground' as you say, would be the 7 maps.

<< Comment #50 @ 09:02 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #43

I do agree with you there, though it is very unpopular opinion. Untested maps shouldn't be in the pool (delirium in 125fps cups the day it was reworked) and new doesn't mean better. If anything in maps the opposite holds true most of the time.

Also I don't think cure is as appealing or as 'special' as the classics or as the new map silence.

In what I disagree though is ztn (or aero or dm6) had to be in no matter what. To me adding it after the pool was announced is a great decision.

What is debatable is the implementation. Having two more maps (ztn 6th) seems less unpopular than removing one that people might like (toxicity or cure), the safe way, and opens the possibility of having another great map (old or new, aero or silence 7th).
On the other hand I only care that ztn is in \o/. Have your 7 or 5 with tox, don't touch my ztn.

Inb4 all the site gets pissed off.

Edited by megaman3 at 09:35 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #100 @ 09:46 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #50

hehe, well i think we can find a middle ground here.. and that might be to +tox and + aero... keeps older players happy, and keeps newer players happy, probably wont keep some people happy, but the players must take precedence.

<< Comment #221 @ 17:40 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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cha0z_ - Reply to #100

This looks good.

<< Comment #91 @ 09:35 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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24 - Reply to #43

How is Cure untested? Lots of online cups and QuakeCon says it's a good map that works.

<< Comment #94 @ 09:39 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #91

relatively being a major word there. In comparison to the others i mean :P

<< Comment #49 @ 09:01 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Anonymous (217.82.66.18) - Reply to #19

good point.
so add tox and t9 making it a 7-maps-pool...
:]

<< Comment #59 @ 09:07 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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GEKKO- - Reply to #19

Would mostly agree with Fraze that this is a pretty inconsiderate move that shits all over the competitor's practice. If feedback was needed to form the optimal map pool, it should have been done prior to the official announcement.

Besides that I think its about time for players to prove them selves on maps besides the ones that have been played for 10+ years straight. We aren't ever going to develop the new awesome maps that will be superior to what we have been used to, if we conservatively keep discarding them beforehand.

SC2 is a great example of how new maps keep being put into rotation each season, which in return have evolved the quality of maps.

Edited by GEKKO- at 09:07 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #67 @ 09:11 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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qwih - Reply to #59

I don't know if we can take SC2 as an example. Does map influence the playstyle as heavily as in quake?

Edit: your point is still 100% valid in his conception and i agree with it tho, just want to make some conversation about a SC2 - QL comparison :p

Edited by qwih at 09:12 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #106 @ 09:49 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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GEKKO- - Reply to #67

I don't know if it influences as heavily as in Quake, but the maps in SC2 do have high influence on the balance and play styles of the game.

Just look to the early days of SC2 with Steppes of War. The map was completely broken and unsuited for competitive play. You do not have to go into such extremes though. Metalopolis developed into a vastly Terran favoured map, as they could set up base at the gold minerals, center map and rain mules down and get a huge economic advantage. An old Broodwar map as Lost Temple had highground cliffs at the natural expansion, which allowed Terran to drop Siege Tanks and other ranged units which the Zerg had a very hard time dealing with.

These days there is a general united opinion about new maps being adopted, and as a result have become much, much more refined and suited for competitive play.

<< Comment #417 @ 13:20 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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w0nk0 - Reply to #67

at top levels in sc2 maps have a huge impact. perhaps not as much as quake but its important none the less. however sc2 map pools tend to be fairly balanced (and its easier to pick maps in sc2 to make sure the pool is balanced). it seems a lot harder in quake (mostly because the player base is stale and idiots dont want to play new maps).

ps: i think its crazy how everyone dislikes tox here lol. to me its the most fun map to play/watch in the mappool now.

<< Comment #104 @ 09:48 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #59

I agree, if the map pool has been announced, that should be final, its unfair to players if not.

<< Comment #126 @ 10:46 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Anonymous (94.225.165.178) - Reply to #19

You just want an unbalanced "lottery" map where whoever wins is pretty much a throw of the dice because you know that you won't stand a chance on the more balanced maps against the stronger players.

<< Comment #128 @ 10:58 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #126

lol, first of all, no map is like that, even on these maps, the better players will win wayyy more often. and second of all lol. troll on anon.

<< Comment #163 @ 13:09 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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donka ' - Reply to #19

Are you saying expo size tournaments are hosted for players and not for spectators?

<< Comment #166 @ 13:13 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #163

its hosted for both, but players should take precedence naturally.

<< Comment #169 @ 13:15 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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donka ' - Reply to #166

maybe from Australian point of view

<< Comment #171 @ 13:34 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #169

what are u talking about, how about no players show up, u have no competition, no spectators watch, u still have a competition, spectators are supplementary to requirement, players are not, and hence take precedence. If you are saying spectators should take priority, then your not worth talking to as u must be either deluded or a troll

<< Comment #194 @ 15:04 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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donka ' - Reply to #171

What you're talking about is merely a result of a healthy eco system of a quake player population. The top of the pyramid serves to attract the rest of the pyramid. As long as both parts of the pyramid are in healthy balance, they produce a good tournament where players play what they like and spectators watch what they like. And the organizers get the benefit of overall gathering, be it investment, monetary, or philanthropic.

Today, the bottom of the pyramid indicated the need for ZTN and expressed the displeasure with toxicity. The eco system corrected itself the way it sees best.

Edited by donka at 15:07 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #188 @ 14:23 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Anonymous (95.154.43.163) - Reply to #19

How can it be "unfair" to the Australians when it's announced to all players that the map pool has been changed and everyone plays the same map pool.

"Unfair" would be if AUS players were banned from picking ZTN and toxicity - while every other player could pick those maps. But that's not what's happening, everyone has equal maps...

It's unprofessional scheduling from DHW to change map pool, sure, but "unfair" when everyone has the same map pool? You're stretching your complaint quite a bit.

<< Comment #191 @ 14:49 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Anonymous (95.154.43.163) - Reply to #19

I haven't followed quake in a few years so I googled Fraze and found this interview:

http://4seasonsgaming.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4479

FRAZE: "Then, in the final I played demon, who I had played a few games online with, and I was feeling reasonably confident and I felt as if the map pool was a bit better because it didn't have ztn in it, which I find to be one of my weaker maps over here, and I ended up winning the finals 3-0 vs demon, which was pretty good I guess, and I felt pretty strong on Toxicity, I think that's probably my strongest map,"

So... You say ZTN is your weakest map, Toxicity is your strongest. Are you sure that doesn't influence your judgement on how the two maps were switched and how it's "unfair" for you?

<< Comment #222 @ 17:42 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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cha0z_ - Reply to #191

He didn't deny that tho

<< Comment #259 @ 21:04 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #191

This is what i want to get straight, i am NOT complaining about ztn, or denying its playability. I AM however, complaining that it was not in the original pool, so should not now be included...

<< Comment #241 @ 19:06 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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dem0n - Reply to #19

A huge majority of people said toxicity was bad and I was in the lot.

Now I don't think I stand a better chance at ztn but atleast it's not gonna be as random as toxicity can be. I was hoping for aerowalk instead but w/e is better than toxicity and its one-sided games.

<< Comment #260 @ 21:05 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #241

Id like to know which people, so far out of the people that are actually going, youd have to be the only one complaining about toxicity that i have seen

<< Comment #309 @ 03:29 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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atomigo - Reply to #260

You won't get a response for that questions, since it's a good one...

<< Comment #356 @ 07:39 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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gSTRUCTOR ' - Reply to #260

Yeah because all pro players post on esr? Dem0n must have like 90% in the last year from all posts of the few top players that post here.

<< Comment #358 @ 07:41 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #356

Still id like to know who was complaining, whether on esr or not!

<< Comment #395 @ 09:16 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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gSTRUCTOR ' - Reply to #358

I agree, it would be cool to know, but most top quake players are rather non vocal about their likes or dislikes.

<< Comment #391 @ 09:13 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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hitsu - Reply to #356

pro player dont care about mappool, they just play. thats why they are pro. they may like or dislike a mappool, but they will play it.

<< Comment #308 @ 03:28 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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atomigo - Reply to #241

YOU say its shit ==> Huge majority...
Berlusconi?

Random? Aerowalk is like 10 times more random than toxicity! Look at the first spawns!

<< Comment #282 @ 01:34 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Lukas - Reply to #19

As much as I dislike toxicity, you have a valid point. The discussions about mappools are neverending, but once you made a choice, you shouldn't change back after this much time. On the other hand..listening to the players (and community) is also a good thing. But right now it seems a bit biased.

<< Comment #30 @ 08:45 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Camma

Agree, this is a terrible idea and has severely altered my interest in attending.

Simple solution = what fraze said, ADD ztn and aerowalk if you wont them in, and leave the original 5 as it was, bad idea to remove maps you're already said were going to be in.

<< Comment #40 @ 08:56 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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EddieF4

Adding in ZTN and aero would have been a better solution or if they want to have a reasonable balance of new and old, add in silence or hektik in place of aero.

Removing Sinister would have been a better choice. It just looks meh to play and watch. Nobody really hates it, they just don't care about it like dismemberment.

<< Comment #88 @ 09:31 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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GEKKO- - Reply to #40

I disagree.

Personally I love Sinister. It feels like a very interesting map, which when while I have been playing it has presented a lot more depth, complexity and potential for various strategies to me, than any other maps in a long time.

In relation to Fraze complaining about people that don't even compete, who are dishing out 'truth' and judgment on maps, I wonder what actual experience you are basing your statement on. In the end it mostly does come down to personal preference and not all are gonna like the map, but how extensive is your actual experience with this map?

With the risk of appearing like an arrogant asshole I have pulled some quick stats from QLRanks:

EddieF4
World Rank: #7485
Elo: 1350
Ladder: Silver
Duels Tracked: 28

None of your 28 duels have been on Sinister. Of course you could have an alias that you play on, but you must be able to see how little actual weight your opinion should hold in this case, compared to that of players who actually do invest time and effort practicing and competing.

Again I'm not trying being a dick about it, I'm just trying to point out an example of what Fraze was referring to earlier on.

<< Comment #98 @ 09:44 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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ffx - Reply to #88

Agreed. Sinister allows versatile play (which cure doesn't imo. Just a big circle with too much green armor). Pavel did a nice move on it last Sunday where he cut off p0ni and got a nice kill. I'm looking forward to see high lvl play on it. Especially something like evil vs cypher/rapha.

<< Comment #119 @ 10:21 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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EddieF4 - Reply to #88

I make the case for sinister to be removed so that a more aim based fast paced map like toxicity adds variety to the pool. That's my opinion and you are free to disagree with.

I don't even like playing toxicity but I do enjoy watching matches on it. Tournaments should obviously cater to players more but you can't just throw what people want to watch under the bus.

<< Comment #164 @ 13:10 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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donka ' - Reply to #88

plused for data

<< Comment #44 @ 08:58 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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sofiene

i still want sinister out :P

<< Comment #47 @ 08:58 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Nalipotanka '

Toxicity OUT!!! :D

Edited by Nalipotanka at 08:59 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #48 @ 08:59 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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slm

no strenx then :(

<< Comment #70 @ 09:14 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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skint

OMG its like a conspiracy against Australia!!

<< Comment #74 @ 09:17 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #70

heh heh. Not implying that ofc, it just will impact us the most for sure.

<< Comment #111 @ 09:56 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Daddy_

sweden rulz, blaze ownz!

<< Comment #73 @ 09:17 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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mouse*

it's out now don't let it in again. ever.

21%

<< Comment #79 @ 09:20 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

A1RMAN

Great news!

<< Comment #80 @ 09:21 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

rehepapp

ITT: aimers whine

:D

20%

<< Comment #82 @ 09:23 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #80

fuck off rehe haha

<< Comment #83 @ 09:28 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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crucci

evil will win this. Best ztn in the world, and played a crap toxicity vs rapha in qcon

<< Comment #85 @ 09:30 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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no_il

I have no problems with the concept of modifying the map pool, but if you are going to REPLACE a map like toxicity, you should do with a similar, faster paced map such as aerowalk or possibly even silence.
The current map pool doesn't feature even one fast paced duel map and that hurts the overall balance of the map pool.

Of course, like others mentioned, the best and simplest solution would be to make a 7 map pool, with ztn and another faster paced duel map added to balance out the overall map pool. Replacing tox with something like aerowalk or hektik and adding ztn plus another new-ish map (silence FTW) would make sense too if the goal is too eliminate toxicity from competition but the first priority should about having an overall balanced map pool with a fair distribution of slower, faster, and medium paced maps.

<< Comment #165 @ 13:11 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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donka ' - Reply to #85

Is map pool like a music album? Some fast tracks, couple of slow tracks, rest are shitty tracks no one cares about?

<< Comment #87 @ 09:31 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Noosh

Even though it's a replacement, having ZTN in the pool is good.

ztn + t7 + dm13 are the best three oldschool maps that are tested for ages and will provide good, balanced games.

Having a 7 map pool would be even worse as the two new maps will get dropped every time even more, unless another new map gets to be the 7th (Silence ?).

<< Comment #89 @ 09:31 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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CENEk

Z4muZ better show up now! :( :| :) :D

<< Comment #90 @ 09:34 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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hitsu - Reply to #89

he wont, work

<< Comment #93 @ 09:38 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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CENEk - Reply to #90

I think cha0z_ owes us all an apology then.

<< Comment #102 @ 09:46 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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hitsu - Reply to #93

nah

tbh i dunno, read it few mins ago in some thread

<< Comment #224 @ 17:52 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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cha0z_ - Reply to #93

Nope, I said that tox telled me he won't go with the old map pool. I don't take responsability for his actions now.
About z4muz - he played till the map pool revealing. Same with arrw, so I guess there is a chance now.

<< Comment #95 @ 09:40 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

losty

as a spectator i approve of this decision.

<< Comment #97 @ 09:43 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Pill_

Wasn't there a 7 map pool last dh? I don't see why they couldn't do it again.

But more importantly

Z T N
T
N

<< Comment #101 @ 09:46 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #97

The above post summarizes this thread.

<< Comment #103 @ 09:47 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Camma

7 map pool would keep all players happy I think (I mean I dont understand how any one could really complain a great deal if the original 5 maps had ztn and aerowalk added to them), keeps spectators happy as all their favourite maps are in and the players happy as the original announced map pool (ie the maps the players have been practising) is kept

<< Comment #107 @ 09:49 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #103

Agree, if it does have to change, then this is the only even moderately fair way to go about it. What has been done has put me off DH slightly for sure.

<< Comment #136 @ 11:23 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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wem420 - Reply to #107

I back fraze and camma idea for sure

10%

<< Comment #212 @ 17:17 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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SwarmDMX - Reply to #107

Well it's a real bummer for you now coz whatever happens if any of the other players weren't aware that toxicity was your strongest map, then after this thread they certainly will be, so even if it changes to a 7 mappool then everyone except rapha will drop it against you. On the plus side you'd be able to drop ztn, as would everyone who plays evil.

I'm glad toxicity is out. It is unballanced and the only thing that could possibly reballance the map is to play 15 mins games. Once the first player gets control, it takes too much time and too many frags to break it. By the 5 or 6 min mark if there is a 10+ frag gap without a break in control, it's over. 15 mins would be a different story.

The mistake was not removing it, but replacing it with ztn. This is a map that's so divisive between old and new school players that it is clearly contrary to DH's intention to open opportunities to newer players. For new school players to play against cypher, evil, cooller etc on ztn is just so tough. The replacement map should have been one without so much history even if it isn't as good as ztn.

And so many people here were moaning about the "unfairness" of the QCon final, but how do you think rapha feels now when DH takes out a map he dominates on and replaces it with a map his closest rival dominates on?

Edited by SwarmDMX at 17:18 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #225 @ 17:54 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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cha0z_ - Reply to #107

With 7 map pool almost noone will play sinister and cure tho.

<< Comment #233 @ 18:39 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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wills0r - Reply to #225

What do you base this opinion on?

<< Comment #492 @ 16:02 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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cha0z_ - Reply to #233

The past. Almost always the old players exclude the new maps. If it's 7 map pool it defo need to be pick, pick, drop, drop, drop, drop. That way it will work perfectly fine.

<< Comment #538 @ 01:45 CST, 12 February 2016 >>

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wem420 - Reply to #107

Come out of golf course and practice for show match again for how much $?

Last one vs k1llsen was crazy great

Love how u and Camma always play.

<< Comment #108 @ 09:51 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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paradicsom

I think there should be a fast paced map aswell... well, I can't think of anything better than toxicity.

<< Comment #109 @ 09:52 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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PopeJo

meh, toxicity is a lot more fun to watch than russians on bljad run

well, at least its not dm6 :c

..what is that? you hear the viewers outspoken opinion and change the mappool again?? good choice!!!

Edited by PopeJo at 09:53 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #329 @ 04:10 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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ihve - Reply to #109

plus for bljad run :D

<< Comment #112 @ 09:56 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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ph0en|X

Good decision :)

Edited by ph0en|X at 09:59 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #115 @ 09:59 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

kk-super_koziol.pl

good that tox is out. mega lame that ztn is in.

S I L E N C E
I
L
E
N
C
E

23%

<< Comment #120 @ 10:23 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

TnG_Magick

Yes !!!
There is a god after all!

...now i can watch dreamhack happily and headache-free : ))

<< Comment #122 @ 10:29 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Laskiy

I like tox and i like ztn

Still - cure + ztn :D

But whatever, that wont life long anyways.

<< Comment #123 @ 10:33 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

CAREEM

How disappointing.

<< Comment #124 @ 10:38 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

brescia

oh my lol! make a more +back mappool pls!

<< Comment #130 @ 11:09 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Zulu4

-TOX : YEAAAAAAH (Boring to spec)
+ZTN: YEAAAAAAH ( Most epic mathes are on this map)

Nice DH team great choise

<< Comment #131 @ 11:12 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Crotazzo

Great! (Sarcasm) ... now remove R A P H A because games tend to get one sided

<< Comment #177 @ 13:47 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

atomigo - Reply to #131

Error: The target user can't receive judgements Error: The target user can't receive judgements Error: The target user can't receive judgements Error: The target user can't receive judgements

<< Comment #133 @ 11:19 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Shahe

Maybe if you want some more balance +Aerowalk/Tox and +Silence? Then I suppose nobody could complain, another new map and an old map. Just a suggestion. =D

<< Comment #134 @ 11:20 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

aiken

I'm not a fan of toxicity, but replacing it with ztn is really bad move. We need to evolve!

<< Comment #137 @ 11:30 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Eviili

on contrary to some that are shouting here, its a good thing to have admins prone to suggestions, regardless of mappool.And its not like they changed with some unknown map which would make certain players unprepared, its just classic.

<< Comment #138 @ 11:32 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

sonic

do australian tears flow down or up?

Edited by sonic at 11:49 CDT, 9 October 2013

55%

<< Comment #172 @ 13:36 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

risen - Reply to #138

honestly, i smirked a little at this, but I have a question for you that may leave you scratching your head.

What really defines up and down in an infinite space such as the universe?

For all we know, america could actually be facing the "bottom" of the universe.

I'm pretty sure the perspective we have of america being on the "top side of the earth" is because of american/european cartographers drawing the map like that.

I was searching google for an upside down map and stumbled across this website: http://flourish.org/upsidedownmap/

<< Comment #179 @ 13:50 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

atomigo - Reply to #172

its one point that cartography is western european centred. did you know that during some centuries the maps were drawn towards the east.
Anyway there is an additional logic explenation. Most of the land mass is in the norther hemisphere, so you might refer that this is the logic way up.
And the universe does not have an up or a down side ;D

<< Comment #185 @ 14:11 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

losty - Reply to #172

stop it i can't take it :o

<< Comment #192 @ 14:56 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

dadS - Reply to #172

There's no up or down in space. To have directions you need to be on an object with a certain amount of gravity and surface area.

<< Comment #234 @ 18:44 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

melechesh ' - Reply to #172

Edited by quake is potat at 18:44 CDT, 9 October 2013

18%

<< Comment #357 @ 07:41 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

gSTRUCTOR ' - Reply to #234

hahah!

<< Comment #274 @ 23:36 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

hitsu - Reply to #172

hahaha :D

have a plus, this was good comeback

<< Comment #284 @ 01:39 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

Waldi3000 - Reply to #172

stop whine. Tell cityy hes map maker

<< Comment #139 @ 11:42 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (78.90.112.56)

A quick check reveals that out of the last 100 games Fraze played 4 Toxicities and 4 Ztns, while Camma played Tox 10 times and ZTN 28.

Sorry guys but everyone would agree you are not right to troll the only QL Lan host left while having such stats.

Be thankful to DH for hosting Quake, seriously...

<< Comment #140 @ 11:52 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Camma - Reply to #139

Yes because I've been practising for the event on my main account so that every one can see how many times ive played each of the maps in particular the new ones............... (sarcasm)

snapper

<< Comment #150 @ 12:14 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (78.90.112.56) - Reply to #140

Obviously not man, but the point still is that it's not that you dropped ZTN out of your practice and played only Tox. Plus there are two months till event.

Sorry to see your and Fraze's best map being dropped. Hope to see you both rock-n-rolling on DHW though! GL

<< Comment #152 @ 12:29 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Camma - Reply to #150

haha, it doesnt matter imo, i would be complaining if they replaces dm13 for hektik even, because you just shouldnt touch the maps once you officially announce. thanks though ;>

<< Comment #141 @ 11:54 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

kRoNic-

good change! really like the maplist now.

<< Comment #149 @ 12:14 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Heartlesss

Cure ---> very good
Furious Heights ---> very good
Lost World ---> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Sinister ---> good
Blood Run ---> very good

perfect mappool would be :

FuriousHeights (probably one of the best map ever of any quake game)
Cure (pretty cool map, and it's FUCKING new)
Fuse/Silence/Delirium or even AEROWALK BABY (new maps \o/, all times classic fast-paced aero \o/)
BloodRun (oldschool classic, pretty much a perfect map)
Sinister (we need MOAR new maps)

2-3 new maps, 1-2 oldschool classics and 1 semi-new perfectly balanced map (FuriousHeights).

FUUUCCCCCKKKKK DM13 ! FUUUUUUU

http://www.esreality.com/post/2490191/re-face...pid2488485
http://www.esreality.com/post/2490191/re-face...pid2489139

<< Comment #142 @ 12:02 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

CMSS

bloodrun best duel map.

<< Comment #143 @ 12:05 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Yellack

Awesome mappool!

<< Comment #145 @ 12:08 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

xero- '

Is toxic even going? Imagine he doesn't show up after all of this? :D

<< Comment #146 @ 12:12 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

melechesh '

wise decision!!!

<< Comment #148 @ 12:14 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Daddy_

absolute perfect map pool.
also, evil will need to bring some lube with him:

ztn: his house

sinister: he's the best in the world atm on it, as he is on silence

t7: overpowered rapha on it. to rape rapha on t7 after he has control and a few frags in the lead is just insane skill. evil has the best comeback game on t7 (rmber that game vs poni as well?)

cure: owns cypher on it every time, owned rapha at qc on it

dm13: altho he lost qc on it, he's a beast there too, oldschool map oldschool skilled russian duh go figure

<< Comment #159 @ 12:59 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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gSTRUCTOR ' - Reply to #148

He lost dm13 because he messed some close range rockets, but was controlling the map nicely.

<< Comment #184 @ 14:07 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Daddy_ - Reply to #159

yeah. it was rather a bad dm13 from evil, much like cooller-style fails, by which i mean he didnt push enough or find situations when to push - and he had ctrl most of the game, or the first part when it would have mattered to secure the game with some frags. which was totally unlike evil. his game relies on precisely that, finding insane aggression plays and executing them like no other, that's why he beats cypher (and rapha) so much. both of them have awesome +back games and know when to engage and how. but evil somehow owerpowers them in exactly that kind of situations, leaving them baffled. he's very efficient at execution. that's why it doesnt matter that he doesnt have lg like strenx or killsen or even cypher (1v1 thunder or eye2eye lg would go to cypher if he played evil imo). those half of seconds when he has to hit he hits. and he hits from every position (strenx for example doesnt like vertical lg - yeah sure lg on cooller on t7 at mega but that's static easier to hit-depends on cfg- or many places on cure or tox or dm13 where strenx doesnt like to lg, look how he avoids many times lging on dm13 the enemy on rocket, while he is lower, above ra, mega level-that position cypher or evil always use lg and go aggressive always, just check some games). and one last thing, evil does alot in his game, it appears easy from spec and wtf he just lg rapes everyone insane aggression etc but it's more than that, he has incredible awareness of the stage the game is in, items, if it's camp time or push-give-up-frags-for-control time or other things. and he hits bs rails to get back control :) well not bs like killsen flick maybe but just consistent ballz to the wall rails (look at rapha t7 game in the final at qc). he's just a real man when it comes to quake

<< Comment #287 @ 01:47 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

Lukas - Reply to #184

This was pretty hard to read.

<< Comment #360 @ 07:50 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

gSTRUCTOR ' - Reply to #287

I disagree, it was pretty good.

Edited by gSTRUCTOR at 07:50 CDT, 10 October 2013

<< Comment #373 @ 08:28 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Lukas - Reply to #360

Good but not very nice to the eye ;)

<< Comment #402 @ 10:07 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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gSTRUCTOR ' - Reply to #373

tru, but for me form is less important than content ;)

<< Comment #151 @ 12:27 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

GUArd

still very boring mappool :(
players will remove sinister and cure and will go back to 2001 @ ztn and dm13 games.. boring..

17%

<< Comment #162 @ 13:04 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Nzr0 ' - Reply to #151

I hope blaze(and everyone else) has learned their lesson regarding map picking. It should always be pick pick, drop drop, no matter what.

26%

<< Comment #203 @ 16:55 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #162

this.

not everyone's gonna pick ztn instantly anyway, so...

<< Comment #206 @ 16:58 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Nzr0 ' - Reply to #203

Yeah, and it also makes a 7 map pool relevant.

<< Comment #153 @ 12:30 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

skulp

i approve of this

<< Comment #154 @ 12:47 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

FlashSoul

ITT : Proof that the Quake community can never be happy.

<< Comment #156 @ 12:58 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

cha0z_

Thanks God!

<< Comment #157 @ 12:59 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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cha0z_ - Reply to #156

and blaze, and dh team!

<< Comment #158 @ 12:59 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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cha0z_ - Reply to #157

and cooller. Why? Because fuck you, that's why!

<< Comment #160 @ 13:00 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

iavoal

.

Edited by iavoal at 13:01 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #167 @ 13:14 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

donka '

ITT: Fraze vs the world

<< Comment #173 @ 13:36 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #167

Many in fact most seem to agree that this is bs.. yeah its fair enough to want ztn in, but its unfair to just randomly take some other map out... u want ztn, add ztn, dont take away another map..

<< Comment #231 @ 18:32 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #173

I agree with you. They should have added 2 maps, not taken 1 away, or just kept it the same map pool.

Taking a map out is lolwut?

<< Comment #429 @ 16:02 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (94.224.101.123) - Reply to #173

They didn't want ZTN, they just wanted Toxicity out.

You got double whammied because that happens to be your favorite map (why?) and they happened to have chosen as a replacement your worst map. I understand your frustration.

Aren't there enough new maps to make an all-new maps pool btw?

<< Comment #449 @ 22:10 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #429

Who is 'they' though? Some guys on esr?

<< Comment #170 @ 13:26 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

risen

I'm not impressed by this news at all. Fairly flimsy/biased justification on the map change. I don't see why you can't do a 7 map pool with pick pick ban ban. I don't want to watch sinister, and cure, for that matter, is only slightly better. Yes, I like watching ZTN but not at the cost of toxicity...

This is a fraze + rapha nerf, honestly.

Get your shit together

+aero
+tox

<< Comment #197 @ 15:41 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

johnny83 - Reply to #170

I have never understand why we dont have 7 maps in every tourney. This is something I cannot catch.

<< Comment #361 @ 07:52 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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gSTRUCTOR ' - Reply to #197

One good reason is because it allows for consistent removal of new maps in map selection.

<< Comment #174 @ 13:38 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

lat-is-davis

fuck all you whiny muddafuckas, blood run HAROSH.

<< Comment #175 @ 13:40 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #174

noone is complaining that ztn is in... its just that toxicity is out and that their has been a change to the map pool.

<< Comment #181 @ 14:01 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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lat-is-davis - Reply to #175

As a 2500 elo player and someone who has taken games off the best of the best I would expect you to adapt like the good quaker you are and not cry throughout this whole thread.

34%

<< Comment #418 @ 13:26 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

w0nk0 - Reply to #181

wheres that fucking downvote button esr?!

<< Comment #196 @ 15:36 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

johnny83 - Reply to #175

Where were you to defend your opinion when everybody said that toxicity must out?

<< Comment #226 @ 18:03 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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cha0z_ - Reply to #196

He was there and did it, but his posts where lost between the tons: "ztn in, toxshit out" posts. :)

<< Comment #250 @ 19:38 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #196

I did a little, however once a map pool has been put in place, i didnt expect to have to defend my position, as the map pool i thought was announced was the one thats going to be played...

<< Comment #178 @ 13:49 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

swsbpatela

fraze +1

<< Comment #180 @ 13:59 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

ProT :

+toxicity
+silence

<< Comment #182 @ 14:05 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Mariano

Toxicity, Aerowalk, Hektik - one of them. Duel LAN tournament without fast small map will be boring as hell... :(

<< Comment #183 @ 14:05 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

BalkanFM

Im really surprised the map change came after esr whine, when its really just a couple of uninportant people being loud..

people who wanna change tox say its an aim/rape fest, and while that may seem so to a noob, rapha is still the best player on tox and will pick and win it no matter what sick aim he plays against... how could that be if its an aim map and rapha not a top aimer?

<< Comment #187 @ 14:22 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

losty - Reply to #183

probably cause rapha knows where his opponent is at all times.

<< Comment #509 @ 15:29 CDT, 12 October 2013 >>

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By

baron Railgun : - Reply to #183

on toxicity if you are 5 steps ahead you are everywhere :p

<< Comment #189 @ 14:23 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Daddy_

yeah i guess a 7 map pool would be good too, if anything to shut these bitches up. but this one is really really good, dont mess with it. augment it if u must, just dont touch what already exists

<< Comment #249 @ 19:37 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #189

Same mentality they should have taken when they originally announced it... :), also funny how u say 'these bitches' when it was just a different set of 'bitches' trying to get tox removed and + ztn.

<< Comment #186 @ 14:15 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

cerno

Toxicity is actually a decent map. Most of the people who constantly whine about specific maps don't even have a valid argument for doing so. Do you see rapha complaining about maps like that?

<< Comment #199 @ 16:31 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #186

you don't see rapha complaining about anything ever but that's just rapha

<< Comment #213 @ 17:22 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

baron Railgun : - Reply to #199

winning

<< Comment #235 @ 18:45 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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wills0r - Reply to #199

He's complained about mouse issues before. He's complained about lack of sleep before. He's human, he complains. Rapha has indeed complained about maps before - that there needs to be new ones.

In my opinion, Rapha sees new maps as a puzzle to be solved, whereas others see it as something they have to deal with.

<< Comment #275 @ 00:14 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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cerno - Reply to #235

I agree with this statement.

<< Comment #340 @ 05:53 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #235

He's complained about mouse issues before. He's complained about lack of sleep before. He's human, he complains. Rapha has indeed complained about maps before

have you ever seen an interview with rapha? even if the guy has mouse problems, or sleep issues or whatever the fuck, he clearly stated many times that it's not an excuse for him not to play his best

<< Comment #422 @ 14:42 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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wills0r - Reply to #340

And yet he still stated them. Not once did I say "Man, Rapha is so whiney, all day he complains about issues." All I said was that he has complained about them in the past, which is the truth.

The intention of my post was to point out that while most people see new maps as something that hinders them specifically, Rapha seems to crave that new challenge.

<< Comment #426 @ 15:44 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #422

so he's not entitled to say his mouse doesn't work as it should, before saying that he doesn't consider that an excuse for himself not being on top of his game? the guy played IEM NA finals with a burning flu, but you didn't see him trying to discredit dahang's win in any way. and yet from all of the people in quake, exactly rapha is the one you mention as a guy who whines.

what a fucking joke.

<< Comment #435 @ 18:02 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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wills0r - Reply to #426

He certainly is entitled to say his mouse doesn't work. He's also stated this after losing in finals. How is that not a complaint? Why did you lose the finals? "Well, I mean, my mouse wasn't working correctly and whatnot, but that doesn't take anything away from X. He played better."

Still a complaint, but not used as an excuse. Have you seen any Rapha interviews?

BTW, I'm a big fan of Rapha. My example wasn't meant to discredit him in anyway. He's a perfect example of a guy who understands that whining about something isn't going to fix anything. He's also a great example of a high level player who wants new maps, new challenges, etc.

"what a fucking joke." If you want to debate, I will, but leave this elsewhere. I'm not here to play troll games with you.

<< Comment #539 @ 01:54 CST, 12 February 2016 >>

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By

wem420 - Reply to #435

Nice wilsor u ownt him!

<< Comment #193 @ 14:57 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Ffleri

thanks! it's great, leave it like this no matter what

and btw, i've always been talking bout 7 maps in the pool would be the best choice, with bo7 final ofc :)

Cure
Furious Heights
Lost World
Sinister
Blood Run
+Aero (still can't believe the best (to watch) map isn't in, but k)
+Tox

Edited by Ffleri at 14:58 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #195 @ 15:26 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Lethe

so it's pick pick toss toss?

<< Comment #198 @ 16:22 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Intro

Why wouldn't you just add 2 maps. Fkn stupid changing map pool 2 and a half weeks after it was announced. Players have already been practicing. Also lol how you change it based on unimportant cunts who aren't even going to dh.

Edited by Intro at 18:17 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #201 @ 16:38 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

SigningOff

"We chose to remove Toxicity instead of one of the new maps (Cure or Sinister) because we think that Quake Live needs a couple of refreshing maps to give newer players a chance to catch up and bring new blood into the game."

So we add Blood Run.

That makes a whole lot of sense.

<< Comment #223 @ 17:50 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Instinctt - Reply to #201

lol.

<< Comment #285 @ 01:39 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

CENEk - Reply to #201

Why do people not understand this statement? If they had removed a new map and added a fucking old map, which Bloodrun is, the mappool would not be refreshing or new. They remove a relatively old map and replace it with an older one but keep the two newest maps.

Damn, it's not that hard to grasp.

<< Comment #202 @ 16:41 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

DNFreaK

I am not a tox fan, but I fully agree with Fraze....you can not change a mappool that is known for a (big) while....

So maybe DH team must change format and add aero and tox!

What does the other pro players think of this change??????

And I would like to see some Aerowalk again...most pro players like it.....

<< Comment #204 @ 16:57 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (86.215.177.117)

now take off cure and sinister and put campgrounds + aerowalk and everyone is happy

<< Comment #208 @ 17:05 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

aeoL - Reply to #204

hello strenx???

<< Comment #210 @ 17:13 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Shahe - Reply to #204

LOOOL Strenx that was too obvious #Kappa

<< Comment #207 @ 17:04 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

aeoL

I personally like the change since ztn is my favourite map and I'm shit at Tox :D Seeing all the tox hate I thought the map pool might changed so I didn't want to practise it straight away xD I can understand where Fraze and Cam are coming from.

<< Comment #214 @ 17:22 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

baron Railgun :

Bitching about toxicity mostly because people's newest sensation evil got destroyed on it by raphe @qcon.
Although tox is out it is quite possible for evil not to win again. God has a strange sense of justice.

<< Comment #464 @ 03:16 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (80.250.160.88) - Reply to #214

justice? god? please.
count 2-2 in qcon grand finals and an hour of blinding searchlight into Evil's eyes before the game started, and the stupid rule of WB winner's right to remove his opponent's best map.

<< Comment #494 @ 16:29 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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baron Railgun : - Reply to #464

It was in reference to the idea of choosing maps to favor one player. When cooler came back from retirement back in... was it 2009 or 2010? everybody was excited to have dm6 back in the map pool, and people also faked positive interest for House of Decay only because it seemed that cooler will do well on that map.
I don't have something against evil, regarding the specific qcon incident with 2-2 count I find it unfortunate but my favorite players are z4 and k1llsen, I watch with interest all the players but couldn't care less who wins excepting these two.
There is a reason why I was choosing the word "strange".

<< Comment #209 @ 17:09 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Memento_Mori '

I think Fraze is spot on. Add another map and make it a 7 maps pool. Also, make sure it's pick pick drop drop...

24%

<< Comment #211 @ 17:14 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Shahe - Reply to #209

What do you think of adding Aero and Silence? I think it balances it well, well imo Aero is better than Tox, to watch definitely, but +Aero/Tox and +Silence. Also has the balance of one new map and one old map.

Edited by Shahe at 17:15 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #337 @ 05:16 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

Ffleri - Reply to #209

Too bad you got all the pluses, while I suggested 7 maps, posted smth like this 1, 2 and maybe 3 years ago, everytime I've got bashed for it.

<< Comment #362 @ 07:55 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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gSTRUCTOR ' - Reply to #337

Its called a reputation, welcome to reality.

<< Comment #364 @ 07:58 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

Ffleri - Reply to #362

I mean, I don't give a shit bout those pluses, but it's just sad seeing everyone posting on how awesome bo7 would be, while I did it so many times, and the same people would tell me that's a shit idea.
Welcome to reality I guess. :)

<< Comment #389 @ 09:11 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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gSTRUCTOR ' - Reply to #364

:) You should be happy someone with a big reputation is promoting a change you agree instead of arguing who posted it first. Who cares, the purpose is to have the best DH Quake tournament possible.

<< Comment #414 @ 12:58 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

HustLah - Reply to #389

not in here, we all want the [+]'s

<< Comment #217 @ 17:31 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

SwarmDMX

Put all the decent duel maps in a hat and have a sexy Razer Girl pull them out of the hat to create the map pool :)

Of course knowing esr everyone will then just argue about which maps are put in the hat to start with - I clearly haven't thought this thru...

Edited by SwarmDMX at 02:34 CDT, 10 October 2013

<< Comment #445 @ 20:35 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

baron Railgun : - Reply to #217

she could also hide the maps in the bra

<< Comment #473 @ 06:37 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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By

CENEk - Reply to #445

Boobrun

<< Comment #493 @ 16:29 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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By

baron Railgun : - Reply to #473

Translated "I run away from boobs".

<< Comment #500 @ 04:03 CDT, 12 October 2013 >>

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CENEk - Reply to #493

I'm sorry to hear that :/

<< Comment #218 @ 17:32 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Lethe

DH attitude is pretty much fuck the aussies, but rest assured that they would immediately add tox and hub if rapha sent a message to the admin

<< Comment #220 @ 17:34 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

nvc

I don't think maps like ZTN and DM13 should ever be dropped, they are what Quake is. DM6 however had to go given how it played out in QL, especially with a TL of 10.

<< Comment #227 @ 18:06 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Instinctt

disappointing.. why would you remove toxicity instead of sinister zzzz ez fix if just make it 7 maps
+ aero + tox then it'd suit everybody. $$$

<< Comment #230 @ 18:26 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Shahe - Reply to #227

No way are they adding two old maps, if it's going to be 7 maps, Silence is being put in for sure.

<< Comment #238 @ 18:54 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Instinctt - Reply to #230

then + tox + silence

<< Comment #229 @ 18:23 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

jamalz

ROFL. GUYS DON'T WHINE TOO HARD, THEY WILL JUST SAY 'QUAKE? FUCK QUAKE!' AT NEXT YEARS DREAMHACK.

FOR THE LULZ INPUT

Make it 7 maps

+DM6
+SIlence

Edited by jamalz at 18:24 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #232 @ 18:33 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

easytarget

Oh my god there is more bitching now then when DHW released the map pool to begin with!! IMO DHW admins should have ignored all the complaining about Toxicity and just left everything the way it was. Will we see any more significant players sign up now that Bloodrun has been added who knows but highly unlikely. Seriously have to take the comments with a grain of salt on this site, the hate band wagon gets way out of control sometimes.

<< Comment #236 @ 18:45 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Necrophag1st

- ztn forever and ever. fuck that map.

+ silence, it's a far better map than either cure or tox.

Map pool atm is too +b heavy. Booooooring. At least I get to see sinister be played. If it isn't dropped, that is. Hopefully the tournament is pick, pick, drop, drop.

<< Comment #239 @ 18:57 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

nemecel

It's not Quake without ZTN.

<< Comment #289 @ 01:52 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

kK_Storm - Reply to #239

It's not Quake without ~~ZTN~~.

D M 6
M
6

<< Comment #240 @ 19:01 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

dem0n

We chose to remove Toxicity instead of one of the new maps (Cure or Sinister) because we think that Quake Live needs a couple of refreshing maps to give newer players a chance to catch up and bring new blood into the game.

Cypher's new favorite map. Yeah right ! :D

<< Comment #242 @ 19:08 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

34338

Deletion requested by user.

<< Comment #243 @ 19:22 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

twister

Add aerowalk and tox

<< Comment #415 @ 12:59 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

HustLah - Reply to #243

too easy for you

<< Comment #244 @ 19:22 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

dem0n

@Fraze: Maybe it still feels nice and cosy to play toxicity there in Australia but since you've been in here (Europe) it feels like the map has changed. Everyone now knows how to play it and knows the spawnpoints and how to fuck with the respawns.

Maybe we will never know it, but maybe this is a good trade for you and Camma. Trust me, toxicity has had its time and it has now proved to be pretty much a cointoss with every good player having learned it to the fullest.

As I said too bad they didn't choose to include aerowalk (or hektik :D people gonna bitch me about that tho) for the sake of keeping a fast-paced map in the lot.

<< Comment #247 @ 19:35 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #244

Regardless of whats better or worse, its unfair to change it. Secondly, i dont care if other players know it as well, its like any other map, if you are better u will win way more, it might be harder for the guy who is worse, but so it fkn should be. I was kinda keen on that old map pool, this one not so..

<< Comment #253 @ 19:47 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #244

also you have been complaining about tox long b4 this so called sudden skill gap rise (which i highly doubt anyway) so thats not a good argument, i find it funny also that u in another thread said that hektik should be in, when that can definately be more unbalanced than toxicity.

<< Comment #258 @ 20:21 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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dem0n - Reply to #253

hektik hardly provided anything comparable to toxicity in terms of one-sided rapes as far as I know. Now THAT map (hektik) has never been really thoroughly learned by all the players as has been toxicity now. As far as I remember our games were pretty close on hektik each time we happend to play it at the time you were in Europe.

Ive always said toxicity is unbalanced, indeed, and now people started to realize it, it just shows I might have been right all along. Don't know where you get your 'sudden skill gap rise' from, it was a slow process, toxicity beeing consistently in mappools for ages now. And only since a few months people started hating on the map BECAUSE the effects have been so BLATANT.

The number of one-sided rapes in official tournaments between the top players on this map should ring a bell even to you tbh.

<< Comment #273 @ 23:33 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

hitsu - Reply to #258

hektik hardly provided anything comparable to toxicity in terms of one-sided rapes as far as I know

cause noone plays this shit map. not even ppl who like it(YOU). and it was epic repe aswell [rapha evil dreamhack rings a bell?]

all fast maps in ql are bad because of spawn system. and thats end of topic.

Edited by hitsu at 23:34 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #466 @ 03:44 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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dem0n - Reply to #273

I play the maps that are in the pools :/

<< Comment #248 @ 19:37 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

sulit

wow wtf dreamhack. i was talking to fatal1ty and he would've attended if the map pool was Longest Yard, Proving Grounds, and Seams + Bolts. can you guys please change the map pool so Fatal1ty would play?

36%

<< Comment #264 @ 21:46 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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FlashSoul - Reply to #248

I <3 you Daniel.

No homo.

<< Comment #496 @ 16:54 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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cha0z_ - Reply to #248

I lol'd :D haha

<< Comment #254 @ 19:56 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Fraze

Also id like to know, seeings as how people complaining about ZTN not being in lead to its inclusion, now that many people have complained that the map pool has been changed, will that lead to it being either reverted like it should be or atleast aero and tox being added as well? For some reason i doubt it...

Thing is if u dont, its obviously a biased decision, as some peoples views seemingly take precedence over others, which is ridiculous especially considering that most of the guys who were complaining were not players.

If it was changed to accomodate some other players to sign up (who probably wont anyway) then that is just lol. What about the players who have already shown the initiative to sign up anyway, dont care about them? How about show some integrity, and keep the map pool that was originally stated.

<< Comment #255 @ 19:59 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

megaman3

blaze, 7 maps so everyone is happy? Same original poll, add ztn and a 7th map.

To make everyone shed tears of joy, make the 7th map be decided via a tournament players poll.

<< Comment #257 @ 20:18 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #255

gud idea.

<< Comment #256 @ 20:03 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

ja ja ve ve

i take all the credit for this, btw

a day before this, i made that thread:
http://esreality.com/post/2489879/dreamhack-a...ir-own-lan

and what followed is todays newspost. journalistic pressure at its best!

____________________________________________

...The Protector Of ZTN...

....The Donor Of Plasma-Balls...

..... The Saviour of Dreamhack Winter 2013...

~~~~~JA JA VE VE~~~~~~~~~ (original signature, do not steal)

<< Comment #261 @ 21:21 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (220.233.100.60)

14 days after the initial announcement with 7 weeks to go seems reasonable.

<< Comment #262 @ 21:27 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #261

Changing it at all after announcing it is not reasonable.

<< Comment #263 @ 21:43 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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FlashSoul - Reply to #262

Do you believe there is not enough time remaining for the players to adapt to the new map pool (aka learn ztn >.>)? Or maybe that the change is important enough that some who were willing to go earlier wouldn't want to go now and made arrangements for DH that they have to cancel?

Or is it simply unreasonable for you because it breaks an ideal or something?

<< Comment #265 @ 21:48 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #263

There is enough time yes, but its just simply unfair that any practice ive done/not done has now been thrown off, which could hurt my performance @ the comp, simply because a few people were not happy. Also yes my brother who was very keen to go, now is not so keen, its just plain wrong to have a map pool and then change it, especially without listening to everybodys point of view, and taking the views of spectators over players. However the views of bothy parties should have been ignored, once the map pool is out, its out.

<< Comment #266 @ 21:57 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Nalipotanka ' - Reply to #265

Stop whining!

36%

<< Comment #269 @ 22:05 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #266

Its no different than the ZTN lovers whining b4!

<< Comment #365 @ 08:01 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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gSTRUCTOR ' - Reply to #269

Yes it is, we were a lot of people, top players included, doing few posts. You meanwhile have gone full Don Quijote in this thread. We all get it, your not happy with the decision and are asking for the 7 map option (which i also think is fair) but please leave room for other people opinions, thanks.

<< Comment #368 @ 08:03 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #365

Yeah i said /rant over at the bottom ;), however i didnt see many if any top players complaining, and also its a lot of people agree with me on this or the 7 maps anyway!!

<< Comment #372 @ 08:24 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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sonic - Reply to #368

Right, so it's fine when people share your opinion:"a lot of people agree with me on this or the 7 maps anyway!!" but when people post something you don't like they're "a few guys (mostly non players)" complaining and they don't deserve an opinion. Gotcha.

You're making yourself look utterly ridiculous.

<< Comment #375 @ 08:29 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #372

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias . Also im only going of what i see... which has a lot of people saying it should be 7 maps.. or that it was wrong to change the map pool. Also i said top players there, which i didnt see any of them asides 1-2 complain, and that is fact. I dont feel like im making myself look ridiculous, no more so than anyone who was complaining that ztn was not in.

<< Comment #381 @ 08:52 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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sonic - Reply to #375

First you dismiss the opinions of people "whining" about there being no ztn because they aren't (according to you) playing in the tournament, but then you say that people are agreeing with you on the 7 maps.
So people's opinions are good as long as they line up with yours, but if they don't they're worthless.

<< Comment #383 @ 08:57 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #381

No, where have i said that? Im whining right now too, and its ok for people to voice their unhappiness, however, when its some guy who will only watch and doesnt even play duel, his opinion is not that important... whether agreeing with me or not. People ARE agreeing with me though, that is fact

<< Comment #385 @ 08:59 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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sonic - Reply to #383

It doesn't matter if they're agreeing with you, because according to you their opinion is not that important.

What you need to take away from this is your opinion isn't as important as you seem to think it is.

<< Comment #390 @ 09:11 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #385

Its just as important as anyone elses, which is why im here argueing, just like you.

<< Comment #399 @ 09:38 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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sonic - Reply to #390

There isn't any point in arguing with people like you, that was my point.

<< Comment #405 @ 10:39 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #399

Well its much better what im doing, than what you are doing, ie argueing about someone argueing. I have a point and a map list id like to see/think it would be fair to see, im yet to see you produce such a proposition.

<< Comment #462 @ 03:00 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (122.108.167.128) - Reply to #266

I agree with the stop whining comment

<< Comment #267 @ 21:59 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (76.73.41.174) - Reply to #262

why did you want to remove sinister/cure for ztn then?

<< Comment #268 @ 22:05 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #267

TBH with you, at the time I actually wanted to have ZTN in just like others, but since then (and before this announcement was made) changed my mind significantly, i was wrong about the maps, i thought sinister and cure were terrible having only played them a few times, but i was dead set wrong about them I suppose, its only now that Ive started my practice etc, that i realise that the map pool shouldnt have EVER been changed, and my original opinion was completely wrong.

<< Comment #270 @ 22:27 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

sulit

Maps in all Major Leagues/Tournaments (FaceIT, 125FPS, Dreamhack/Quakecon)

ZTN
T7
DM13
Cure
Sinister
Delirium
Silence
Toxicity

WE NEED TO HAVE A GLOBAL MAP POOL

For real.

With a global map pool, none of this complaining shit would be relevant. 7 maps every 4,5,6 w.e months change it. this way EVERYONE knows what to practice for those months.

Get all Leaders (Roychez, NICO, LAIM/BLAZE, Syncerror) to discuss what maps to use for this GLOBAL MAP POOL.

EDIT:
Maybe tie it all together. have ranking points for each region (EU, NA, Africa, w.e w.e w.e) which will tie into the seedings for Quakecon. this builds story lines to the QL superbowl which is Quakecon. Also change Quakecon halftime show to a twerking competition instead of the traditional "blowing the cups with air contest"

dat my idea, hope you guys like

Edited by sulit at 22:34 CDT, 9 October 2013

<< Comment #351 @ 07:12 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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WTFProoF?! - Reply to #270

You should burn in hell for eternity just for mentioning, no just for thinking about twerking. It's the most disgusting thing known to mankind. Even watching a heroin-addict going through a cold turkey rehab is sexier than twerking. So to sum up: BURN IN HELL YOU UNTERMENSCH!

All other points you made are reasonable though.

18%

<< Comment #441 @ 19:47 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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sulit - Reply to #351

i like twerking. its twerk nation. n y jamalz liking that post? that wigga loves twerking

<< Comment #442 @ 20:07 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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WTFProoF?! - Reply to #441

As I said burn in hell just for thinking about it.

<< Comment #443 @ 20:18 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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sulit - Reply to #442

im burning right now. feels good.
i'm sorry but we are in a reverse twerk epidemic.

Edited by sulit at 20:20 CDT, 10 October 2013

<< Comment #477 @ 09:39 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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By

Laim - Reply to #270

"Get all Leaders (Roychez, NICO, LAIM/BLAZE, Syncerror)"

I have no idea what i am a leader of but sure i can discuss what maps that should be in the map pool.

<< Comment #293 @ 02:33 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (118.90.94.90)

7map pool

cure
sin
lost
furious
blood
tox
fuse

best

<< Comment #271 @ 23:17 CDT, 9 October 2013 >>

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By

h8m3

Would be better if it was replaced by a new map like Delirium, not ztn

<< Comment #292 @ 02:33 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

Daddy_ - Reply to #271

the gulag for u next, comrade. u betray mother russia and ask for -ztn

<< Comment #317 @ 03:39 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (217.82.69.226) - Reply to #292

D:

<< Comment #276 @ 00:16 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

Zeta

Instead of whining some people could already be practising..
it should be an honour to receive an invite by dreamhack not a whine fest.. get a grip ppl..

<< Comment #278 @ 00:49 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #276

I was practicing the map pool, but then it got changed, whats the point of practicing any map now, for all i know they will replace them all with fuse delirium dm17 t8 and hektik!

<< Comment #366 @ 08:01 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Heartlesss - Reply to #278

whatever the mappool you'll get raped by rapha evil and cypher so who cares

<< Comment #370 @ 08:08 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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gSTRUCTOR ' - Reply to #366

Thats not the point of the discussion.

<< Comment #371 @ 08:10 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #370

trolls gonna troll, hes still mad

http://www.quakelive.com/r/profile/matches/He...1fd90/ca/1

<< Comment #396 @ 09:19 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Heartlesss - Reply to #371

i'm not mad cause you beat me once.

i'm mad at your attitude. You only played 1 map against me when i was playing with 16cm/360° instead of 30cm (my current sens since 2009).

basically i entered the server, we started to play 1v1, and at the end of the match after your win you started to trashtalk me and instantly left the game.

if we played proper bo3/5 with my regular sens, would be another story.

also, i can't even name all the players that beat me once or twice or even 3 times. But when i play these players like 5-10 times, i win most of the matches.

so, come to europe to get raped by sub-top to top players again. You're an elo whore. Dandaking was a much better personality than you, and he deserved to be at the top. But you ? You're a whiny bitch and you care too much about your elo, and your ego is fucking big.

i'm mad at you yes.

<< Comment #404 @ 10:37 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #396

your delusional haha, how am I an elo whore? not once have i dodged someone because i wanted to keep my elo (which in europe was only around 2350 anyway) and lol you couldnt beat me @ 1 v 1 ca, and when im in europe again ill prove it to you. Who raped me? noone raped me, in fact even the top players i took maps off/beat? Ofc it was only online, but u can only beat who u play and under the conditions your can play. You know nothing about me, other than the fact that i beat you at 1 v 1 ca. haha ALSO my ego is much less than yours, im not claiming i can beat someone i lost too the only time we played ;) also on a different note i never trash talked you, i quit the game, then u got your mate still in server to message me to play again, then i said i was going out, then u started this tirade that i was scared/knew i got lucky etc... wank on hero.

Edited by Fraze at 10:44 CDT, 10 October 2013

<< Comment #411 @ 11:45 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Heartlesss - Reply to #404

blablabla when you'll be back in europe we will play again.

but too much blabla kills the blablabal

<< Comment #369 @ 08:06 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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gSTRUCTOR ' - Reply to #278

Edited by gSTRUCTOR at 08:07 CDT, 10 October 2013

<< Comment #461 @ 02:59 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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Anonymous (122.108.167.128) - Reply to #278

@Fraze : you know, people change things in life all the time, even in work you have to change things at last minute, u don't whinge about it (well you would), you adapt and carry on and just do it...whinging about losing your favourite map which may give u a higher chance of winning then any other map in the pool and saying its "because its unfair to change it after it was released" ...its fair..because everyone knows about it at the same time. also, honestly wouldn't they just know tox is ur strong map and ban it anyway? so u might not even get a chance to play tox even if its put back / stayed in the map pool.

and even if they change it again, you have played most main maps multiple times and ztn is better then tox anyway, its just you have a lower chance of winning on ztn overseas so you were probably praccing that map more then others to give even a higher chance to win on that map.

just learn all maps equally, u don't need to learn anything really new on ztn anyway, you just have a lower chance of winning on it so ban it at the event if you don't go on for days trying to change everyones minds and change the map pool again to a 7 map pool making more maps for them to learn / prac on with "not enough time" or whatever lol

<< Comment #277 @ 00:38 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

johnny83

Can we make a poll about mappool? 5 or 7 maps?

<< Comment #291 @ 02:33 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

BOB-3000

Dreamhack seems like the FIA

<< Comment #283 @ 01:35 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

24

Adding a map to make it a 7 is a good idea, but never Aerowalk. It should be Silence or at worst, Hektik.

I'd pick Silence, because now we finally had 2 relatively new maps (Cure, Sinister), and it made 40% of the pool. Adding ztn and aero feels like going backwards once again. Add 1 old (ztn) and 1 new (silence).

<< Comment #290 @ 02:17 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

filo

awesome map pool.

... saying that, i would also like to see some day, a faster* tournament with smaller maps only: -aero, - hektik, -dm13, and so on.

*faster as in smaller maps faster gameplay, not faster as in quickly finished tournament.

<< Comment #478 @ 09:45 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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Laim - Reply to #290

Is DM13 really a good example of a fast map?

<< Comment #515 @ 14:56 CDT, 14 October 2013 >>

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filo - Reply to #478

well yea you are partially correct, it depends on the players playsytles, but it can also host very quick and aggresive matches.

<< Comment #296 @ 02:50 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

baksteen

DHW 2013 will be a tournament where so far, already more 'new blood' has been confirmed to participate than in any other LAN tournament the past years. Do you think you're giving these players a 'chance to catch up' by removing a relatively new map and adding an old one?

<< Comment #298 @ 03:08 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

tybalt

The map pool looks fine now, toxicity was boring to watch and basically always ened in one sided wins; like dem0n said, its a cointoss among the top player.

People talk about quake needing to evolve in terms of the map pool, I totallt disagree; you don't change the shape of a soccer pitch - or take dust2 out of cs. ZTN is a proven map that is timeless and imo should always be included.

I say you stop focusing on this and start practicing instead, its not like you don't know ztn right?

38%

<< Comment #300 @ 03:13 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #298

I was practicing before, and not paying attention to possible changes in map pool or even structure of the tournament, or the way the prizes are distributed, and now this happens, its not possible to stop focusing on it, as its integral to my practice etc. TBH its just plain wrong its been changed.

<< Comment #303 @ 03:19 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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tybalt - Reply to #300

Ok, your argument makes sense if you have ONLY been practicing toxicity. Sure you might have wasted some time there, but it shouldn't hurt you too much.

You think its "plain wrong" based on the fact that its your best map, I know you can't always be impartial, but come on - your opinions are completely biased.

<< Comment #304 @ 03:22 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #303

Even if it was cure or somehting it would be plain wrong, the map pool has been released, leave it at that. Would everyone be ok if ztn was now suddenly replaced by dm6 or somehting? no, its unfair. also its not my best map, just one of the better ones.

Edited by Fraze at 03:23 CDT, 10 October 2013

<< Comment #305 @ 03:22 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #303

also i have not been playing ZTN as well, and for this initiative, i now get punished, whilst people who were still playing ztn etc are now at an advantage..

Edited by Fraze at 03:23 CDT, 10 October 2013

<< Comment #306 @ 03:27 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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tybalt - Reply to #305

I think in this case you just need to respect the admins decision - theres still 2 months to practice, you should be fine.

<< Comment #307 @ 03:28 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #306

Just like every other fucker did when ztn was left out? No, i refuse to respect a decision like that

<< Comment #310 @ 03:30 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

atomigo - Reply to #307

Come to europe 1 month earlier, stay at my place and practice ztn against 10000 russians ;D

<< Comment #312 @ 03:33 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

Fraze - Reply to #310

:> as much as id love to I have uni here :P

<< Comment #314 @ 03:36 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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atomigo - Reply to #312

ok make it 2 weeks then. Its easy to skip 2 weeks of uni

<< Comment #313 @ 03:35 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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tybalt - Reply to #307

Its impossible to please every player, you should know this. I think in this case the majority of people are pleased with the decision, and that should be enough.

I don't see the point in being too critical towards dreamhack and its admins in the first case - we should all be thankful they are quake fans and even let us take part in their events. We, as a community, get 5% of the viewers the other games get, they do it only for the love of the game. Be thankful they are actually hosting a tournament and let go of the fact they dropped your best map.

16%

<< Comment #315 @ 03:38 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #313

Where was this impossible to please every player mentality when ztn was not in? Its like you think just because ztn is in, means everyone should be happy, or that it just doesnt matter? if it didnt matter, then why was it changed to begin with. Its not my best map, and regardless of what they dropped, its a terrible decision.

<< Comment #318 @ 03:41 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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tybalt - Reply to #315

Ignore my main point and keep focusing on the maps, changing it again would be idiotic at this point - you are wasting your time arguing.

<< Comment #320 @ 03:43 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #318

Changing it to begin with is where the problem started. What is your main point anyway, it seems to me like you would be someone complaining ztn wasnt in, then when it gets put in, say people shouldnt complain. hypocrisy at its finest

<< Comment #322 @ 03:46 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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tybalt - Reply to #320

I, like most people; want to see an exciting event - toxicity adds nothing in terms of that.

If you want to go with a 7 map pool, I say add silence and delerium.

<< Comment #324 @ 03:51 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #322

Whats exciting about 5 medium-slow maps, and 0 fast paced ones? Idk about u, but who wants to watch a game of dm13 which is a +back fest.

<< Comment #378 @ 08:34 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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rehepapp - Reply to #324

Me. As far as pacing and excitement goes I enjoy high contrast between slow and fast paced moments instead of constant cess cess cess pew pew pew.

<< Comment #379 @ 08:37 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #378

Yeah ok fair enough, but 5 maps all similar?

<< Comment #393 @ 09:15 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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rehepapp - Reply to #379

Ye, I agree. Some fast would be nice as long as it's not tox =)

7-pool would be cooler

<< Comment #412 @ 12:27 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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hitsu - Reply to #393

C O O L L E R
O
O
L
L
E
R

<< Comment #345 @ 06:17 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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brescia - Reply to #298

sweet comparison, quake and soccer :)

however yea, i agree, some maps are timeless and should be included. yet having a mappool suiting one particular style that much is imo quite stupid.

mappools should always be made such that they suit aggressive, defensive and players in between as equal as possible..

this is definitely not the case, and even though rapha probably would be the favorite no matter what mappool, he is definitely the favorite now!

Edited by brescia at 06:19 CDT, 10 October 2013

<< Comment #350 @ 07:08 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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stripy - Reply to #345

I agree on the map dispersion. Always liked a mix between fast and slow maps. However, tox is just plain boring. A new, fast and good map is missing (not out/made yet imo).

<< Comment #299 @ 03:13 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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cityy

Without leaving a comment regarding the whole map pool debate I'd much rather see the community pulling together to make the best out of this event and give the admins the credit they deserve for their hard work.
In think with QL we can be happy about this event taking place no matter what map pool there is and we must not forget that drama like this is not exactly encouraging people, in particular the admins to keep on doing what they do.

<< Comment #301 @ 03:16 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #299

Its the admins fault this happens though. You release the map pool, and stick with it, what kind of admin or person in a position of power will fold to pressure from a few trolls.

Edited by Fraze at 03:19 CDT, 10 October 2013

<< Comment #321 @ 03:45 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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wision - Reply to #301

Did you ever organized such big international event? It's not as simple as a lot of people think.. as I'm used to say "You can't please everyone".

what kind of admin or person in a position of power will fold to pressure

Just to answer your question.. That kind of admin which is dedicated to the game and the community. I'm sorry that you are not able to see it.

In a perfect world, everyone would be happy with everything (even the maplist).. but we are nowhere close to that, so you can either get your shit together and do your best, or just forget about the tournament.. blaming people around is not a good way.

On the other hand.. I'll miss toxicity. I like to watch games there.

25%

<< Comment #323 @ 03:48 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #321

Its principle, i dont get why anyone is attacking me here, im doing exactly what the ztn lovers were doing, except im actually playing the comp, as well as being more justified in the fact that the map pool was meant to be set. Also if they are dedicated to the game and community, they will change it again, as apparently im not the only person unhappy that its been changed, as seen above ^

<< Comment #386 @ 09:03 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #323

ZTN is HAROSH. I can name countless amazing games on that map, but only 2-3 on toxicity, which is why you are getting flamed.

I do agree what the admins did is pretty gay, and overall you have the main right to whine and bitch.

However, you aren't going to win this argument unless you try to get 7 maps +toxicity/+silence

You won't get any other win, they won't reverse the decision and you cannot compete with ztn fanboys.

Edited by jamalz at 09:04 CDT, 10 October 2013

<< Comment #387 @ 09:10 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #386

Id be happy with that :P

<< Comment #420 @ 13:47 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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smari - Reply to #301

The only troll is you.
There were many people complaining about tox being in and ztn out.
The mappool change was appreciated by the vast majority, it's mainly you complaining in a hundred posts (before it was hundred people complaining with 1 post each).

Also it's kind of funny you blame the admins for changing the mappol, yet you want to them to change it a 2nd time for 7 maps.
In this case you can really ask:
"what kind of admin or person in a position of power will fold to pressure from a few trolls."

Edited by smari at 13:50 CDT, 10 October 2013

<< Comment #425 @ 15:10 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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hitsu - Reply to #420

many ppl who wont play DH

<< Comment #437 @ 18:40 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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foctis - Reply to #420

"Also it's kind of funny you blame the admins for changing the mappol, yet you want to them to change it a 2nd time for 7 maps."

This keeps coming up, and it's just silly. There's nothing inconsistent about saying
-a mappool, once announced, shouldn't be changed
and
-a mappool, once changed, should be quickly changed back to/closer to its original state

<< Comment #448 @ 22:09 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #420

I dont want them to change it to 7 maps, i would rather they changed back to the original 5, however the 7 maps is a middle ground. Im not trolling anyone, i only want whats fair. It seems to have been appreciated also by 100 people, who wont be playing, and rarely play duel anyway.

<< Comment #302 @ 03:18 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

InDepther

7 map pool.

<< Comment #316 @ 03:39 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Anonymous (80.78.212.74)

Get a 7 map pool, it is the only right thing to do right now! stupid way

<< Comment #319 @ 03:43 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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GUArd

I see people still didn't learned to play tox.
YES it's onesided and yes it's a bit cointoss.
It''s same as Aerowalk, everyone is good in control and spawnraping, but just few are good out of control and NOT GIVING EZ frags.. I am weak aimer and I was realy top10 aerowalk player and I think I was top10 tox player.

<< Comment #328 @ 04:05 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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atomigo - Reply to #319

weak aimer.... trololololol

<< Comment #335 @ 05:03 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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GUArd - Reply to #328

compare etc top30 players, I would be somewhere btw top25-20. It's just map experience and position. In CA and TDM my accuracy is like 2 times worse..

<< Comment #430 @ 16:28 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Zarathustra - Reply to #335

Stop being so humble you!!!

<< Comment #440 @ 19:03 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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sonic - Reply to #430

GOOD GUY GORD

<< Comment #376 @ 08:30 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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fazz - Reply to #319

Truth is spoken!

Tox/aero is fun maps to play and spec. But horrible for competitive play.

However ztn and dm13 still being in makes me want to puke as well. Realize that they have been in 99% of the tournaments I have played in for the last 13 fucking years!!..

27%

<< Comment #403 @ 10:14 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Necrophag1st - Reply to #376

Thank you for saying it.

I have only been dueling since early 2011, and am already sick of seeing old maps played over and over and over. It's especially bad in the NA community where the majority of players just want to play old maps forever and not learn any new ones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oRplNkjn5Y

Above is a link to a video of me playing zero4 on cure. Around the 6 minute mark onward, rapha makes some comments on learning new maps. Like he said, it really only takes a few days to get decent on a new map, assuming you're already a high-level player that has your basics down. I really don't understand how people can be happy playing the same shit year after year after year. After 2.5 years I am already sick of most maps, including ones I used to play all the time. I am probably one of the only people who enthusiastically learns and plays new maps when they come out. Because of this, I can't see myself playing QL for much longer with how stagnant it has become.

17%

<< Comment #419 @ 13:28 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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GUArd - Reply to #403

yeah! I am telling some fans, I don't have time to play. I don't have so much as before, but still I have a lot for quaking, buuut I am bored of these same maps too... I am happy delirium is here, hope it's gonna play good after update. hope it will make me play quake for fun again..

<< Comment #436 @ 18:14 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Necrophag1st - Reply to #419

The new version of Delirium looks pretty promising, I just can't find anyone to play it with. Such is the NA community.

<< Comment #439 @ 19:00 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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lat-is-davis - Reply to #436

I'll play you on delirium if you're okay with IL :]

<< Comment #326 @ 03:54 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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iamnoob

Changing map after it was announced is totally not correct! People bought tickets, booked hotels, wasted time on training and you changed fast map to totally different map. That changes everything for the participants.

Many old school players don't want to learn new maps, I can understand them, but that's not correct. Look at Cypher, he plays all the maps and never complaining. To play this game, you need to love it.

P.S. I don't understand people who don't like toxicity. It's one of those maps where weak player have chances against everybody. You don't need the best shooting here to win! I am elo 1700 and I never won players with elo >2100 on the maps like ztn or t7 or dm13, but I won at least 20 players with elo 2100-2400 on tox. And that's the reason why oldschool players don't like tox. They hate loosing to noobs, they want to play only maps they played for 10 years.

Edited by iamnoob at 05:21 CDT, 10 October 2013

<< Comment #333 @ 04:48 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Eviili - Reply to #326

lol, the amount of rage.. :D

Changing map after it was announced is totally not correct! People bought tickets, booked hotels, wasted time on training and you changed fast map to totally different map.

are you fucking serious!?totally different map!?!?!?

I don't understand people who don't like toxicity. It's one of those maps where weak player have changes against anybody. You don't need the best shooting here to win!

Thats because youre one of those deluded wannabes.See the problem is not in these people youre describing, but in this small elitist minority that keeps believing that one day,ONE DAY they might reach the top.Im sorry if you misleadingly believed that the only reason current top is where it is right now, is because of the maps they know.But if you havent managed to learn the old maps on their level in 10years, youre not likely to do so on the new either.And keep in mind that when referring to those people, youre actually referring to majority consisting out of 90%.

<< Comment #398 @ 09:36 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Necrophag1st - Reply to #333

Are you fucking retarded?

Yes, ZTN is a TOTALLY DIFFERENT map than toxicity.

A quick glance at your QLranks stats shows that 75% of your 121 tracked games are on blood run. Toxicity is not even on your chart. You're also a 1400 elo player. A bit biased perhaps? Either way, you've clearly no clue what the fuck you're talking about and have no credibility to back up your opinion.

<< Comment #401 @ 10:05 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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gSTRUCTOR ' - Reply to #398

You must be new here, i present you eviili.

<< Comment #471 @ 05:56 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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Eviili - Reply to #401

shutup mexican chav.How much world cups do you have under your belt again, deluded ape??Is it 6, I lost the count???

Edited by Eviili at 06:30 CDT, 11 October 2013

<< Comment #474 @ 07:35 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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gSTRUCTOR ' - Reply to #471

ad hominem attack, the mark of a tru mental midget.

<< Comment #480 @ 10:13 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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Eviili - Reply to #474

keep working on that 7th title bro,I will be saving special bottle of CORONA EXPORT, just in case you win something.And dont forget to pay that CL subscription by the end of the month, otherwise you will be left watching that 3rd grade libertadores competition OLOLOLLOL.

<< Comment #470 @ 05:54 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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Eviili - Reply to #398

LMAO.

If you intend to investigate someones account, least you could do is learn to read properly american dumbfuck.Not only you come up with elo arguments, but you also bring up a 2y old account.At this point I wonder if youre not one of those idiots confusing Australia with Iraq, but hey, at least youre able to log in to esr and demonstrate how knowledgeable you are.And about the map, it is obvious youre functionally illiterate so I will just repeat what I said before.. If he havent managed to learn the map in 10 years to surpass cooller, hes not likely to do so on the new one either just in couple of months.

<< Comment #327 @ 03:55 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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VRED

Jesus Fraze u cry like a little girl, just practice this mappoll THERE IS STILL TIME :D

I think that "wasted time on training that maps blablabla" its just bullshit talk. U play this game for 999years, it shouldn't be a problem for a guy like u to "learn" any map :P

Ofc DH guys should have think things like map poll more carefully and don't change it after already announced , but u still make a mountain out of a mole-hill :P

And yes, 7 map pool (pick pick) would be awsome. Everybody wins this way - no cry from players, more excitment for viewers, and well - it shows who is the real Champion and can adopt to tournament conditions/maps better than opponents.
Not to mention that BO7 grand finals are just awsome ;)

No idea why organizers of LAN events use 5 maps only, especially when there are plenty of good maps.

Edited by VRED at 04:26 CDT, 10 October 2013

22%

<< Comment #341 @ 05:57 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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BOB-3000 - Reply to #327

Well if I had _one_ map that I felt really good at. I would practice that map the most to have atleast one map that would be "sure" win. Then if that map got removed I would also be pissed off.

<< Comment #342 @ 06:01 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #327

ive played for not even 4 years, but other than that and u calling me a little girl, im glad u agree with my pov.

<< Comment #347 @ 06:59 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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sch. - Reply to #342

he didnt call you a little girl, he just said that you cry like a little girl which makes you a man (or a boy) crying like a little girl :(

but if you wanna be a little girl there always a way

btw please stop crying, you wrote what you wanted to wrote and yet i'm still seeing countless posts which are basically saying the same thing

Edited by sch. at 07:00 CDT, 10 October 2013

<< Comment #348 @ 07:02 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #347

yeah mostly defending myself/my views against trolls and or other people with strong opinions :>

<< Comment #352 @ 07:19 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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sch. - Reply to #348

*with own opinion

<< Comment #330 @ 04:28 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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ybl

from a non-dueller point of view.. i always prefer maps with simple layout like vertical vengeance or hektik , dm6 - its just easier to follow. f.e. i still dont get the teleporters on ztn, its too confusink :>

<< Comment #431 @ 16:36 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Zarathustra - Reply to #330

Loved your post the most :-*

<< Comment #432 @ 16:54 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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melechesh ' - Reply to #330

that's a sign that you should play more duel

<< Comment #331 @ 04:31 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

ogdiabz

Swap dm13 for toxicity. Solved.

<< Comment #332 @ 04:45 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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PsY^

Who are you kiddin'?

Only reason Fraze is emo is because they removed a map he likes.
If it was some other map he hated, he would not care at all.

That's a fact. Get over it. T9 and aero was removed. We also have to deal with that.

26%

<< Comment #334 @ 04:50 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Eviili - Reply to #332

yep, not liking something does not necessarily mean its not good.

<< Comment #336 @ 05:09 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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tybalt - Reply to #332

obviously :)

<< Comment #343 @ 06:02 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #332

t9 and aero were not removed after having previously been announced as being in though, so thats completely different. now THAT is a fact. Also id be annoyed if they removed cure/sinister, and obviously im not amazing at those either, ofc its easy for me to just say that, but its true.

<< Comment #380 @ 08:42 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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PsY^ - Reply to #343

No they were just removed, which is even worse.

Touché mudafukaaa

<< Comment #382 @ 08:54 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #380

well might be even worse as they will probably never be back, but still, both are bad :P

<< Comment #384 @ 08:58 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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PsY^ - Reply to #382

Trust me. Both maps will be back.

Tox on the other side? not so much.

<< Comment #388 @ 09:11 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #384

aero yes, t9 never

<< Comment #392 @ 09:13 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Eviili - Reply to #343

sinister is actually a very good map now.

<< Comment #394 @ 09:15 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #392

Dno about very good map, but it seems decent yes.

<< Comment #472 @ 05:59 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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Eviili - Reply to #394

To me it looks like a map that could stick in the pool the way Furious Heights has.Cure on the other hand is a bit declined tho.. gonna put my hopes in Delirium instead.

<< Comment #338 @ 05:26 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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h8m3

fuck fraze, heil blaze

22%

<< Comment #339 @ 05:44 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Cwiru

ztn is mother of all maps. eot

<< Comment #344 @ 06:12 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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kaboom

We chose to remove Toxicity instead of one of the new maps (Cure or Sinister) because we think that Quake Live needs a couple of refreshing maps to give newer players a chance to catch up and bring new blood into the game....

... and you picked ztn? rofl

<< Comment #353 @ 07:29 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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CENEk - Reply to #344

Yes, keeping two new maps and replacing a played one with an old one. They didn't say that they wanted another new map in the map pool.

<< Comment #355 @ 07:33 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Anonymous (85.207.84.158)

All this whining, its unattractive.

<< Comment #346 @ 06:53 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

Nalipotanka '

Fraze is like old women with all this whine rampage... :/ Get over it and play the game man!

<< Comment #349 @ 07:05 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #346

ok ok... /rant over.. ;)

<< Comment #354 @ 07:31 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Tebeg

The best way is probably 7 maps map pool. ZTN is better than Toxicity. After one change in map pool it is almost unacceptable to make another change.

The problem now is pretty much insoluble. I understand people who, like Fraze, are upset by this situation. But making another change right now IMO will cause only different people upset ("why map X and not Y is added"? etc.). So I vote for keeping things as they are now, even though I'd love to see a bigger map pool. You can't always get what you want, as someone said.

<< Comment #359 @ 07:46 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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lepolac

Go 7 maps and pick pick drop drop !

<< Comment #367 @ 08:02 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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ybl - Reply to #359

as a non-dueller and spectator ... the loser of a map should choose the next map

<< Comment #416 @ 13:16 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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HustLah - Reply to #367

so rapha will never pick one ?

<< Comment #363 @ 07:56 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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By

Carpio

FAITH IN HUMANITY RESTORED!!!!!!!!!!!!

<< Comment #374 @ 08:28 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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gSTRUCTOR '

I like this decision, but i also think theres a better one.

7 maps, original map pool + ztn + a map that balances the addition of ztn. So it should have 2 qualities, being fast and new, as ztn is a classic rather big map. My first pick would be hektik cause its both new and fast and imo easy to learn (simple layout) my second option would be t9, a map many top players like and is super different to any other map, my third and last option mainly due to it not being as fast as the other maps, would be silence.

Whatever the map pool please do it pick pick!!! So both players can showcase their skills on their best maps, instead of always having each player best map removed with the actual drop drop system.

If 5 map pool it should be pick pick drop drop remaining maps is the third if necessary for bo3. If 7 map pool pick pick drop drop drop drop remamining map is played (so we get a more balanced third map). On bo5 with 7 map pool it should be pick pick pick pick drop drop.

<< Comment #377 @ 08:31 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #374

Ive always thought that works 2 ways, players might choose what they are good at, or what their opponent is bad at, so either way u may end up with matches in maps that both players are not super strong on. However i agree with the rest!

<< Comment #397 @ 09:19 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Anonymous (95.154.43.163)

@Fraze "unfair"

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

<< Comment #410 @ 11:27 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #397

How so?

<< Comment #413 @ 12:34 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Infector - Reply to #410

It's not unfair, the map pool is still the same for all players. This swap affected all players participating in the tournament equally. It would be unfair if they for example notified some of the players before others etc. but i don't think that's the case.

Edited by Infector at 12:35 CDT, 10 October 2013

<< Comment #447 @ 22:07 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #413

Thats not true, what if someone had been playing lots of ztn and no toxicity, just because they didnt change the maps they played, they are now at an advantage as opposed to people who stopped playing ztn completely and have been playing more tox..

<< Comment #463 @ 03:00 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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Anonymous (62.44.134.72) - Reply to #447

Hypothetical terrible argument that makes no sense, no sense whatsoever.

ANYONE extremely super-serious about the tournament, like you, will have practiced the map pool. When the map pool changed after 14 days, EVERYONE that practiced tox have "wasted" those 14 days. The map pool didn't change just for YOU, fraze, it changed for everyone. That's why it's pathetic whine that it's "unfair" towards YOU. It makes no sense whatsoever.

And it's freaking hypothetical, guessing what other competitors did to make your hypothetical argument. Please try to limit your arguments to facts, since grabbing at hypothetical straws makes you seem even more whiny.

No idea if you're a one map wonder, but your extreme whine in this thread about being treated "unfairly" as if DHW targeted YOU individually, highly indicates it.

<< Comment #465 @ 03:22 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #463

So if they changed it to the only map in the pool being dm13 that would be fair cause its the same for everyone?

<< Comment #475 @ 08:44 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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Anonymous (95.154.43.163) - Reply to #465

Once again. Hypothetical terrible argument that highlights how thin your case is for DWH targeting you and Australian players specifically. They are not out to get you. In fact, your name probably didn't even come up. It's the same map pool for every player and every player got the same information at the same time.

Stop acting like a victim you big crybaby.

TRY to base your arguments on facts. Not far-fetched ridiculous hypothetical scenarios.

<< Comment #476 @ 09:02 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #475

when the fuck did I say anyone was targeting me? Anyway we shall see if justice is served, i just dont wanna hear anyone complaining if/when they change the map pool again ;)

<< Comment #479 @ 10:02 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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Anonymous (95.154.43.163) - Reply to #476

So your 50 whiny comments on this page wasn't because YOU feel "unfairly" treated even though the changes affect every single player in the tournament? That must mean that every time you used the word "unfair" you took it upon yourself to speak on behalf of every contestant? Which must mean you think changing the map pool is unfair for everyone? Even though it's the same change for everyone, meaning, it's not unfair.

Do you really need it spelled out like that, to understand why it literally doesn't make sense that you think changing the map pool is "unfair"?

Fact of the matter is, your best map got switched for your worst. It sucks for you, sure, and that's probably why you are so loud in your protests. Guess that's the downside of being a one-map wonder. But it's not "unfair".

Stop acting like a victim because the map pool got changed 52 days before a tournament.

Stop wasting your time acting like a whiny little kid on ESR and start practising.

<< Comment #481 @ 10:15 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #479

First of all, how the hell am i a one map wonder? Thats like saying evil is a one map wonder on ztn just cause its one of his better maps (note tox is not my best map anyway).

Also im not even that bad at ZTN, its just im annoyed any changed happened, not once have i ever complained about what map got removed or that ztn was put in, ive only complained that ANY changes occured. I have been practicing regardless, even the dreaded (:P) ztn.

The only reason i keep responding on this thread, is i keep getting randoms like you wanting to say how much of a whiner I am, and i feel compelled to defend myself, especially against anons like yourself who pretty much want to take some arrogant moral high ground, telling me to get over it, when it actually has nothing to do with you anyway.

I dont see how any cunt here can tell me to get over it and practice, when the decision doesnt actually affect them one bit, where as it does affect me, so im well within my rights to complain.

I mean we saw how people complaining before got the map pool changed, so maybe me standing up for what i think is right will see it reverted/changed again to be more of a middle ground.

Edited by Fraze at 10:16 CDT, 11 October 2013

<< Comment #483 @ 11:34 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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Anonymous (95.154.43.163) - Reply to #481

[q]I dont see how any cunt here can tell me to get over it and practice, when the decision doesnt actually affect them one bit, where as it does affect me, so im well within my rights to complain.[/a]

It affects every other competitor as well. It's the same freaking map pool for all competitors. Yet you are the only competitor whining ENDLESSLY that it's "unfair" the map pool got changed. And we've established countless times that it's not "unfair" to change the map pool, since it's still the same map pool for every competitor. No specific player is given an "unfair" advantage in the rules. Yet you keep using that word, playing the victim.

YOUR COMPETITORS ARE PRACTISING THE MAP POOL.
YOU ARE WHINING ABOUT THE MAP POOL.

Good luck in Sweden.

<< Comment #484 @ 11:43 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #483

I am practicing and complaining :P. I never said it didnt affect every competitor as obviously it does, and when does it become unfair then, would u consider it to be fair to change the map pool 1 day before hand? NO BECAUSE ITS THE SAME FOR EVERYONE (lol)

Edited by Fraze at 11:44 CDT, 11 October 2013

<< Comment #485 @ 11:52 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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gSTRUCTOR ' - Reply to #484

To quote anon and i agree with him "TRY to base your arguments on facts. Not far-fetched ridiculous hypothetical scenarios."

<< Comment #487 @ 12:00 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #485

I knew that was coming as soon as i said it tbh. haha However i see nothing wrong with basing them on hypothetical scenarios, quite often if u exaggerate something you may look at it differently. Also it has happened before, where a map pool has been changed/announced very very close to the day.

<< Comment #488 @ 12:10 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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Anonymous (95.154.43.163) - Reply to #484

Sigh, once again you resort to an extreme hypothetical example in a futile attempt to make your point of "unfair" treatment.

Do you consider 7 weeks preparation time insufficient to brush up on a well-known map, considering the experience of the competitors involved?

The definition of "unfair" is characterized by inequality or injustice.

You have used the word "unfair" countless times in this thread. Please specify EXACTLY how is it "unfair" when every competitor is given identical information and every competitor is given free choice how to react to that identical information?

Please don't use hypothetical extreme examples. Use facts.

<< Comment #489 @ 12:33 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #488

U seem to think that if something is the same for everyone means its fair, and that's as retarded and ignorant as saying if 2 players both have 100 ping the game is fair. Think dreamhack winter 2011, the fact that LAN was not available so that the competition had to be played online is just plain stupidity, and unfair on certain players, as they may not be used to certain playing conditions (ie 40 ping or whatever it was) or will just now find it harder to win, because they would do better on LAN.

IDK how much you know about cricket, but it is a game in which the playing surface can play a major part in the outcome of the match, and sometimes home teams will doctor their surfaces to favour their players according to their players strengths, and make it easier to take advantage of any of the opponents weaknesses. Even though both teams will play on the same surface, it does not mean that this is fair. Ofc i am not implying that DH have changed the map pool to favour europeans however, i am merely stating that it will work in most of the europeans favour.

Some players do not have the liberty of having many other highly skilled players to play with to fine tune play on new maps, or even certain maps in general, so the inclusion/ removal of certain maps will make winning or doing well in this competition more difficult for certain players.

<< Comment #491 @ 13:21 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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Anonymous (95.154.43.163) - Reply to #489

Some players do not have the liberty of having many other highly skilled players to play with to fine tune play on new maps, or even certain maps in general, so the inclusion/ removal of certain maps will make winning or doing well in this competition more difficult for certain players.

That's the first logic argument you've put forth in this entire thread. However, the problem you highlight is inherent to ANY map pool. Your definition of available practice partners defining if it's "fair" to put a map in a map pool means that literally all maps are "unfair" to some players somewhere.

The validity of your claim that changing the DWH map pool is "unfair", depends solely your assumption that the DHW organisation picked maps that knowingly give an advantage to certain players.

Your best map didn't get picked which sucks for you. But you need to stop your complaining. You're way past the point where people consider you a whiner. Henceforth you should let your rocket do the talking.

<< Comment #490 @ 12:38 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #488

Anyway its late here and speaking of cricket I have a match tommorrow... first game of the season and keen to do well.. haha so ill ttyl mate! Have a good day/night :)

<< Comment #400 @ 10:01 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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CAREEM

with 7 map pool every one will be happy so make it happen! tox and dm6 in!

<< Comment #406 @ 10:39 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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endstufe

what speaks against 7 maps? seems like everyone would be happy if you add +tox and +whatever now and make it pick pick. changing the mappool twice may look a bit silly, but ultimately it just means that you listen to feedback and want to make this the best event possible.
or are there any solid arguments against a 7 map pool?

<< Comment #407 @ 10:40 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #406

no.

<< Comment #408 @ 11:11 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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T1E '

good news for the faceit mappool

<< Comment #409 @ 11:16 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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gramz

I wish aerowalk was added instead of toxicity or bloodrun, but this will certainly please old school players. Looking forward to this event.

<< Comment #421 @ 14:27 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Putton

Fraze ur whine is so disgusting. hope you loose groups

<< Comment #451 @ 22:13 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #421

But 100 people whining about ztn was fine!

<< Comment #454 @ 02:01 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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leopold ' - Reply to #451

that's the root cause. You think your single opinion is weights as much as that of 100 others together.

23%

<< Comment #455 @ 02:07 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #454

Incorrect, this isnt about my opinion, its about whats right and whats wrong. and changing a map pool after announcing that as the official map pool is wrong, no 2 ways about it. Having said that, my opinion is more important than just a spectators, any other players opinions would be equal to mine however. The root of the problem is the changing of the pool, not my opinion on what maps should be in, nor my opinion on how important my own opinion is (lol) or whatever opinion any other person may have.

Edited by Fraze at 02:10 CDT, 11 October 2013

<< Comment #460 @ 02:52 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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leopold ' - Reply to #455

me me me me me

be happy there's a tournament at all.

<< Comment #456 @ 02:10 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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hitsu - Reply to #454

even 1000 votes of ppl who wont go to DH is less important than player that will be there and try to do his best

<< Comment #457 @ 02:12 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #456

I agree, if a spectator doesnt like the map pool on announcement, dont watch, same as if a player doesnt like it, dont go, only it would be too late for me to just not go, as ive already invested time and money into going (ie by booking flights and practicing), hence why I am complaining

<< Comment #459 @ 02:32 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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hitsu - Reply to #457

DO U EVEN SLEEP BRO?

<< Comment #423 @ 14:58 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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SenT!neL

7 maps would be great

<< Comment #427 @ 15:47 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Shardik

Ok! Now Sinister out and Aerowalk in. Thx !

<< Comment #428 @ 16:02 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Anonymous (82.131.19.149)

Fraze, I'm a fan of yours, but extensive whining sucks. Nice to see that you stopped though. Still cheering for you on the tourney. HF and kick ass on ztn :)

<< Comment #433 @ 17:37 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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impulseBE

add delirium and tourney2

yeaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

<< Comment #434 @ 17:52 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Nalipotanka '

I love when people call Toxicity a new map....but...

''Added: 20 Dec, 2005''

http://lvlworld.com/review/id:1841

<< Comment #438 @ 18:47 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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battleforged

OMG, didn't expect the thread to be full of Fraze whining.

JUST FACTS:

-The map pool was announced on the 24th of September and Toxicity was changed to ZTN on 9th of October. This is 16 days interval.

-Basing on http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/matches/Fraze/ stats for this interval:
1) Amount of Toxicity games: 4
2) Amount of ZTN games: 6

Fraze... About what waste of time are you talking about?

20%

<< Comment #444 @ 20:22 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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aeoL - Reply to #438

Like they said, you don't have to play on your main account.

<< Comment #446 @ 20:35 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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baron Railgun : - Reply to #438

Most of them play with aliases. Like you don't know :p

<< Comment #450 @ 22:12 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #438

yeah, especially with a fair few new maps.. i dont want people knowing how many times ive played them.

<< Comment #453 @ 23:26 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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aeoL - Reply to #450

Don't worry Fraze, if it becomes a 7 map pool everyone will certainly ban toxicity against you now :>

<< Comment #513 @ 08:00 CDT, 14 October 2013 >>

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STINGpl - Reply to #453

i doubt, coz (as far as i remember) its pick pick first.

Edited by STING_pl at 08:02 CDT, 14 October 2013

<< Comment #516 @ 04:23 CDT, 16 October 2013 >>

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occultum - Reply to #450

lol.. it would take someone like 5 minutes to discover an australian fake nick, based on the skill levels there and the amount of players!
Anyways gl fraze will cheer for you @ dh keep on practicing.

<< Comment #517 @ 04:26 CDT, 16 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #516

haha thanks mate, but thats incorrect if im also playing vs another fake! :P

<< Comment #518 @ 08:47 CDT, 16 October 2013 >>

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occultum - Reply to #517

Yeah but if i go spec i can easily see it's you, or dan, ventz, python or your brother! :(
If it's private i can always see by the acc's and other aspects! Like if the fakea is playing someone with 10 games in a row that end at min 3.. i know it's you and camma :D

Kinda miss q3 when you could do local lans.. that would be great for you and your brother!

Edited by occultum at 08:48 CDT, 16 October 2013

<< Comment #519 @ 09:11 CDT, 16 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #518

HAHA good one about me/camma! haha and yeah i would like to play more lan myself.. :>

<< Comment #532 @ 22:55 CDT, 20 October 2013 >>

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Python - Reply to #518

You can use the hacked LAN client and it never registers any games in Quake Live, so no one would know if you are playing. Perfect for private LANs that are not announced publicly.

<< Comment #534 @ 04:13 CDT, 22 October 2013 >>

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occultum - Reply to #532

Ah yes that's true python.. didn't realize that was still on but you can indeed! that's a good idea for fraze and camma =)

<< Comment #535 @ 07:23 CDT, 22 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #532

ah awsome didnt know that was a possibilty, i wont look into it though, i might get banned.

<< Comment #536 @ 16:39 CDT, 22 October 2013 >>

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Python - Reply to #535

Says the guy who posts about using the hacked server on 4sg :P
You didn't get banned either! :P

<< Comment #537 @ 17:09 CDT, 22 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #536

no idea what your talking about mate ;)

<< Comment #482 @ 11:04 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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ProT : - Reply to #438

Maybe Fraze had some kind of a secret strategy and now they've ruined it. ;)

<< Comment #524 @ 09:25 CDT, 18 October 2013 >>

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eburbeck ' - Reply to #438

you said "about" twice. you were so close to perfect grammar there :/

"Fraze... About what waste of time are you talking ~~about~~?"

<< Comment #452 @ 23:04 CDT, 10 October 2013 >>

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h8m3

ctrl+f fraze
1st out of 115

<< Comment #458 @ 02:15 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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sulit

Fraze doesn't even play quake. he's a cod player. dreamhack please dont listen to this whiner.

<< Comment #467 @ 05:09 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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Instinctt

all slow maps zzz

<< Comment #468 @ 05:29 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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sonic - Reply to #467

people should stop playing chess and start playing tiddlywinks

<< Comment #469 @ 05:37 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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Sulaco

Get House of Decay and Tox in and thats it. (almost) everyone happy!

<< Comment #486 @ 11:53 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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gSTRUCTOR '

So tox and z4muz confirmed?

<< Comment #495 @ 16:30 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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jamalz

Hoping Fraze wins dreamhack winter for the added lulz

<< Comment #497 @ 17:46 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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SwarmDMX

I can just imagine evil grinning at all this ;)

<< Comment #498 @ 18:47 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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melechesh '

frazing in an upside_down thread

<< Comment #523 @ 09:21 CDT, 18 October 2013 >>

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eburbeck ' - Reply to #498

everything is upside_down when you're on the bottom of the world

<< Comment #499 @ 19:43 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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foctis

Strewth @ this thread

<< Comment #501 @ 08:37 CDT, 12 October 2013 >>

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FFT

I also stand with Fraze on this one. I think it is a shortcoming on behalf of the DH admins. They should have either involved the community (spectators and players) in deciding of the map pool before the official announcement or they should have stuck to their initial choice and use the feedback to do better next time.

I personally, as a spectator, welcome the change from tox to ztn. However, I still think it was wrong to change a map pool after an official announcement. They should have released a preliminary map pool in a form of a vote or open discussion instead.

As Fraze pointed out himself his whining about it is more justifiable than the ztn lover whine. If Camma and Fraze decided to attend DH partly because of tox is very favorable to them and after the official announcement they invested time and money for the event, just to be changed because some ESR users whined about it and some rumors of great players not attending because of the map pool. This is objectively unfair to them, it's just simply breaking a promise.

Another point I agree with Fraze is that it is safe to assume that some of the oldschoolers not attending is more likely because of Cure and Sinister being in the map pool rather than tox. This, however, is completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

DH will be no doubt a great event, thanks to everyone involved in organizing and participating. However, I personally believe being fair and professional is more important than catering to a bunch of whiners.

(Again Fraze whining is much more justifiable than ztn lover whine. As he is whining about being treated unfairly, they are whining about something that that is not their favorite preference)

<< Comment #502 @ 09:31 CDT, 12 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #501

Thanks you sir.

<< Comment #504 @ 11:56 CDT, 12 October 2013 >>

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kRoNic- - Reply to #501

"If Camma and Fraze decided to attend DH partly because of tox is very favorable to them"

they didnt, the maps were announced at the same time camma and fraze were invited. There's still plenty of time before DH and if you look at quakecon for example, they never give more than 1 months notice for the map pool and there's never this much drama!

<< Comment #505 @ 12:30 CDT, 12 October 2013 >>

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FFT - Reply to #504

You think tox being in the map pool didn't make DH more lucrative to players like Fraze and Camma?

I don't know for sure but I assumed that a good map pool was a reason for them to go. Not that it's unheard of people to pick events according to the map pool...

<< Comment #506 @ 12:31 CDT, 12 October 2013 >>

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Camma - Reply to #504

no notice would be better than false notice :>

<< Comment #508 @ 14:42 CDT, 12 October 2013 >>

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Fraze - Reply to #504

Although we were yes signed up for it, wasnt booked! But i was when it got changed! Anyway be nice to meet you.. so cya there! :P

<< Comment #520 @ 18:01 CDT, 16 October 2013 >>

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Daddy_ - Reply to #504

wtf is this with aussies and toxicity? are they, like, gods on it or wtf? rapha/cypher/killsen rape all on tox, evil too, dont let the qc final fool u. what's up with these 2 aussies in general, they gonna be trashed duh get a grip n00bs hyping them up

<< Comment #503 @ 09:32 CDT, 12 October 2013 >>

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Vium

lol duel players are fun.
Who cares what map you camp on, you still camp.

22%

<< Comment #511 @ 18:51 CDT, 13 October 2013 >>

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cha0z_ - Reply to #503

Hahahahaha :D

<< Comment #507 @ 13:33 CDT, 12 October 2013 >>

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FFT

Posting in a mappool_business thread

Edited by FFT at 13:34 CDT, 12 October 2013

74%

<< Comment #510 @ 13:29 CDT, 13 October 2013 >>

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melechesh ' - Reply to #507

lmao

<< Comment #512 @ 18:52 CDT, 13 October 2013 >>

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cha0z_ - Reply to #507

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha omfg roflmao

<< Comment #514 @ 08:03 CDT, 14 October 2013 >>

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STINGpl

Blaze should now set rules from "del del" maps first ;)

<< Comment #521 @ 16:49 CDT, 17 October 2013 >>

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YoJJi

the mappol is great dont change anything plz.

<< Comment #522 @ 09:19 CDT, 18 October 2013 >>

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eburbeck '

it's times like this that i wish there were a [-] button

<< Comment #525 @ 09:25 CDT, 18 October 2013 >>

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blaze - Reply to #522

I guess you're happy about that the maplist has changed again.

<< Comment #526 @ 11:20 CDT, 18 October 2013 >>

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eburbeck ' - Reply to #525

your guess is poorly written and hard to decipher. but my guess is that your guess is the opposite of about that which is correct. follow?

<< Comment #527 @ 16:19 CDT, 18 October 2013 >>

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blaze - Reply to #526

I guess that your guess is an assumption of what I wrote was incorrect. Correct?

<< Comment #528 @ 19:16 CDT, 18 October 2013 >>

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sonic - Reply to #527

gangnam style

<< Comment #529 @ 07:36 CDT, 19 October 2013 >>

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eburbeck ' - Reply to #527

Incorrect. Clean up the words you write to the point that they would pass a second-grade grammar test and we can continue this discussion.

While you delete your extraneous prepositions, I can clarify that my statement about wanting a [-] button refers to my disapproval of the Dreamhack admins' decision to replace Toxicity with Bloodrun, as I believe (for many reasons) that Toxicity was (and still is) a better choice for the Dreamhack mappool. It does not refer to any of my feelings on maplist change frequency or the fact that it was recently changed - even if Bloodrun were in the mappool from the start, I still would pine for a [-] button to show my disapproval of that choice.

Clear enough now, or are you still struggling to keep up? Also, let me know if you need help with the specific grammar issues in your post, ok?

<< Comment #530 @ 14:53 CDT, 19 October 2013 >>

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blaze - Reply to #529

That's too much for me. I understand, cba to act all trollish. I'm glad that English isn't my native language.