When Quake3 was released, CPMA was out pretty fast too.
Why did people, so quickly, decide to have a mod with such huge physics difference?

Q3A release December 2, 1999
cpma beta 3 / March 24, 2000
1.0 / August 28, 2000
Why? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenge_ProMode_Arena read the development section at the top.

When did CPMA get competitively accepted (ESWC/IEM or other major tournaments)?

ESWC - it wasn't? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Sports_World_Cup
IEM - can't find it there either http://www.esl-world.net/masters/history/#season1

http://esreality.com/post/2494932/promode-masters-duel-cup-2013/ says "It's been a long time since the last Q3 Promode tournament with actual prize pool (as in 'more then 20 bucks') took place." but I can't find one atm.

Why was Quake Live based of VQ3 physics, when CPMA was so popular? And why was it accepted? To keep quake alive?

Because it wasn't anywhere near as popular as vq3, it had a core audience of diehards. Also because it's harder to learn and the skill gap is HUGE even above VQ3's due to the flight sim like movement which makes it less suitable to keep the masses happy. But mostly just because it wasn't as popular.

Why was the roundtime changed from 15 to 10 min?

in CPMA tournaments or just QL Duel in general (both normal and PQL)? either way - because the game is so fast and peoples attention span is short anyway?


Promode is amazing to watch at high skill levels (which I am absolutely no where near, I cant fly, need a few years practice I think :( ), I'm very glad QL hasn't let it die completely, but I do wish it was much more popular than it is.
Sadly the skill gap makes it even more exclusive than QL itself in today's world of the lazy gamer with no real determination.

Play more Promode!

I went looking for some cable in my basement, and look what I found:



:)

I think that German company owes me a ton of money for pinching my nick back when I was a well known Q2 player to pimp their gear.

Why else would a German company use a Japanese guys name? :)

I actually played quite a bit of Q2 with it. And it still works! ;)

looks like something macs make

Inb4 100 people IM you to buy it for frankenmouse.

Already on it.

GIEF!

Really? ;)

size, in comparison to an abyssus, cause a wide 3 button mouse that's actually not long is my dream.

I don't know the Abyssus dimensions, but this one is ~102mm long, ~60mm wide in the front and ~55mm in the back and ~28mm high at its highest point.

Here's a pic of it side by side with my IME3.0:

bottom please

Sure!

Sensor would be a bit too far back for my taste, How much?

The center of the ball hole is at around 59mm from the front (42mm from the back).

This is what you'd have to work with:

10£?

lol

I know but 3 buttons seems so alluring.

You just need to pay for the shipping expenses. Other than that, all I want is for you to have fun with it and post some pics of the YakumoAdder or whatever you'll build with it. ;)

depends if I can get anything done, worst comes to worst I start nagging thunda about stuff,

BLUTAK

GIEF!

Thank you so much!
I think you meant to link the cpma wiki, and not the q3 wiki, but i found out :)

Well i really thought that cpma was much bigger than vq3 in its glorious days, and they played that at the big events. Guess i was wrong.

I love watching cpma, but i feal like its a waste learning it now :(

Thanks again for your answers, appreciated!
Oh and btw, whats the difference between CPM and CPMA?

whoops, totally did, had both links up checking dates. Fixed.

Iirc CPM (Challenge Pro Mode) was the mod for Q3, it was later renamed CPMA (Challenge Pro Mode Arena) and people tend to use CPM to refer to promode physcis, CPMA to the mod (which could be set to use vq3 physics still)


It's still fun to learn, there is a PQL CA server in germany on quakelive up 24/7 "mino minobot" , watching some of the good players like Medicamentes or HiggsBozone fly around that is just sick.

It's vampiric damage though which is a spam fest, I've see them score up to 20k damage in a game.

'Good players like medicamentes' :)) stick around longer on those servers and find yourself a dast, uwu or maybe even myself ;p. Vampiric pql ca is underrated!

Yeah, I can only comment on the ones I've actually seen so far, his movement was good iirc and he's the only one I've seen break 20k as of yet, the others have been close.

CPM is the gameplay
CPMA is the mod

cpm gameplay was more popular than vq3 in america(for like a year)
then painkiller came around and killed the scene.

dont worry about popularity, if you want to learn something, just do it.

"Also because it's harder to learn and the skill gap is HUGE even above VQ3's due to the flight sim like movement which makes it less suitable to keep the masses happy."

I disagree. Quake players are known for liking hard stuff. Problem with cpm movement isnt difficulty (i played cpm and wsw and learned to move pretty quickly, its much harder learning vq3 physics from scratch, than migrating from vq3 movement to cpm movement which in fact, once you get it, is an easier movement scheme cause you can be constantly moving without losing speed, main difference being you can turn hard angles without losing momentum. While in vq3 you will be more punished if you make movement mistakes, eat walls, etc.

In my case i prefer vq3 because while being a fast game, it has a better movement "equilibrium", as in rushing sometimes, but also walking, hearing etc. While cpm looks like a schizophrenic racing (or as you put it flight sim) game with weapons.

I'm trying to picture how good you were when you decided that cpm is easier because it's faster than vq3. My guess is you were no wesp. I'm picturing erratic movement, terrible acceleration, obliviousness to all the tricks cpm makes possible, but "hurr durr b2r is easier".

[+]

would love to see him try playing like a maniac against smart players like gaiia or gellehsak

So if im not one of the best players in the world i cant give my opinion? LOL nice reasoning.

That's not the point (or at least I think it isn't). The point is that while you can play CPM extremely fast, a lot of seasoned players choose to play a more deliberate game, one that includes walking, listening and holding position and is equally (if not more) effective than a fast playstyle. Examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M6Cidg59UI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGt83RgnZUE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbeVoXTiVyY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t05FZUaQGE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82XhBcrtuo0

No, my point was that he judges cpm based on the limits vq3 provides, not the limits of cpm. That he's thinking "oh everything I can do in vq3 is easier here" while disregarding all of the things that are impossible in vq3.

That's a good point too.

Not because its faster, but because you are constantly doing the same, instead of vq3 where you run, walk, stop, etc. Did you even read what i posted or just the part that made you cpm fanboy go mad?

slow play is very important to cpm(cpm22 being the exception). youd know if you had played against good players.
just stahp

OMG, you stop? You run? You walk? I stand corrected, vq3 harder, cs hardest.

It just goes to show how clueless you are when you say there's more to do in vq3.

haha keep your self entitled quake expertise because, youre so full of it, oh youre a cpm now everything makes sense... If you dont accept you walk and stop a lot less than in vq3 youre really full full of shit dude.

I don't accept that walking and stopping is harder than continuously using aircontrol and doublejumps AND strafejumping to always be on the move.

can you define "constantly doing the same" ?

Her something not you know probably but w3sp all around good dfer, with or without script/modification. Fact is w3sp play both vq3 and CPM. Iirc strict vq3 before moving to CPM.

Another fact is the most zomg shit you me and everyone pictures when someone says w3sp is

C P M
P
M

eh no. is not always cpm more entertain than vq3. is depend on map and technique. for you fast move and high speed turn may more be entertain but for me strong technique is more enjoy.

Yes, and what about all the cpm tricks and maps, what vq3 technique do you use for those? Cause almost anything that can be done in vq3 can be done in cpm, but not vice versa.

of course. this undeniable.

try PDM01_Pea_IMPOSTOR in vq3 then try in cpm and say to me which is harder. :-)

also, if you are play weapon, you must take into account weapon switch time in vq3 vs insta-switch in cpm. further, you are also take into account what angle rl jump and where you land as result. in cpm is easy as 'oh hey i turn here watch' and done. you are turn.

edit:
this is different issue however. point is for some vq3 is hard than cpm and vice versa. not many player able make switch between both physic and still be good threat in both, atleast in df instance.

Yes, some things are easier in either vq3 or cpm(like pg climbing is easier in vq3). But overall cpm offers more things that require technique.

p.s.: glm/dex stronkest

like which thing? air control in cpm == ground technique in vq3.

I don't understand your question.

vq3 strafing most people can pick up in a day with some help, and in a week can be good enough for it to make a dramatic change to their play (not talking defrag challenge standard here)

cpm movement I understand the basics, but actually being GOOD at it takes far far longer. And until you do, the amount you will be utterly destroyed by someone that has mastered it is far greater than in vq3, in part because a much faster moving opponent is harder to hit as well.

And if you're very enmeshed in vq3 movement the transition is definitely harder as you are fighting years of muscle memory.

cpm move take same time as vq3 move. is not hard learn turn in cpm or ramp. in certainty, many noob who play df start cpm and do ok but not able to much in vq3 because not able learn control need to negotiate corner with keep much speed for instance.

^why google translate is bad

have you know am best person speak in english in my village. neighbor come to me and ask to translate many time.

you win gold potat

lmao what the fuck kind of reasoning is this

Ehm no. Vq3 and CPM very much different psychic. Because you bad at move in CPM but good in vq3 not make CPM harder in general. Vice versa too.

If respond to statement with fact, please no give opinion with intent of pass off opinion as fact.

Do you refer to Quake Live as a stand alone game, or as a Quake 3 port?

Well it's not a port, it's more of a fork.

They forked Q3A and put a lot of work into both the source and the back end to keep the service going in a way that just wasn't going to happen with community run servers after the glory days died off.
People whine but they made Quake available to the masses in a way that it just hadn't been for years.

They also completely fucked it up too.

the F2P scene was just beginning it's heyday and they went with a subscription model :(

F2P != free to run.
They're staying subscription because just like so many news sites they can't cover their costs with just advertising, they're too niche.

You misunderstand something quite vital: The CPMA mod offers both CPM gameplay (air control, fast weapon switch, tiered armour etc etc) and VQ3 gameplay. While the mod became standard for competition due to its technical improvements and competitive options, the CPM gameplay did not. In fact, a lot of VQ3'ers continue(d) to bash the CPM gameplay. The funny part is that they don't even seem to realize almost every gameplay improvement in QL was taken directly from CPM (eg double jumps and lower damage hitscan).

As I understand it, the concept of CPM gameplay was around before CPMA even existed. I don't know what the initial motivation behind it was, but I do know that the CPM ruleset as it is today was designed to try to have a better balance between raw skill and tactics. I personally do believe CPM is the closest to a 50/50 split between tactics and execution, but I doubt there's any QL'er who will agree with me. They seem to think CPM is all aim (or at least the vocal ones do).

As for the roundtime, no clue :)

vq3 game settings were added like 5 years after release of cpma. and btw, totally broke the game turning it into all lg/rail fest, which we can see nowadays in ql.

I actually agree with you. I personally find QL too hitscan heavy too. The CPMA netcode does work for CPM though (SHOCKER!).

Aahh thanks for clarifing that.
So the base mod is named CPMA, and then you choose between playing CPM/vQ3 rules/gameplay?

Servers running CPMA simply support both. Players can vote which one they want to play in. (cv gp cpm/vq3)

CPM gameplay, IIRC, was an attempt to a more modernized Quakeworld.
The nerfing of hitscan weapons was in response to xerp inadvertently buffing the hitscan weapons in online play. I don't think id software ever intended people to be hitting 30-50pc LG on opponents in Q3. Because of how lightning functioned in the point release, and how hard it was to aim, they gave it a high damage so the weapon was still somewhat functional. Even if you watch LAN footage ( think Polos here... ) You'll notice no one really used it all that much.
CPM definitely helped advance Quake hugely. Still quite adverse to the CPM mode gameplay. Love the movement, but hate the silly gameplay mechanics.

Actually quite the opposite (or at least in the case of CPM, not sure about QL).

Decreased LG Damage and Knockback
Motivation: Penalise use of low-skill weaponry.
The LG is 90% ping and 10% ability. Terrifying in the hands of even the
most newbie SLPB yet near-useless to HPBs regardless of their skill, it
has no place as a top tier weapon.

on introducing rail to the quake series:

Motivation: Introducing low skill "tactical play" (read: camp).
To cater for the hurt low-skillers raped in the original quake.

The rail is 90% camp and 10% zzzz. A weapon slowing the gameplay of quake significantly down, so that everybody has a chance to frag.

Has no place as a top tier weapon in quake,
Hence the reduction to 80 dmg in QL and other quake versions.
The railgun dmg mechanics should stick to low skill games like CS/COD etc.

not sure if srs

My thoughts on 10 Minute Duels (vs 15 min)

Pros:

Tournament Management/Scheduling:
- A best of 3 can be completed in 30 minutes.
- A best of 5 can be completed in under an hour.

Increased Trend of More Maps Played in Sets
- 1999-2005 matches were bo1 or bo3 (3-5 maps per pool)
- 2005-2011 matches were bo3 or bo5 (5 map pools)
- 2012-2014 matches bo5, increasing trend of bo7 finals (7 map pools)

Natural Mercylimit
- If the spread is wide at the 10 minute mark, the match is called rather than drag on another 5 minutes.
- If the spread is narrow at the 10 minute mark, overtimes are more likely, and allow the extra time that was built into the 15 minute timelimits.

Less Time = Less Mistakes
- Making good use of time is more critical, mistakes can make or break a set. The player who makes fewer mistakes wins.

Cons:

Less Time = Less Mistakes (Yup, it's both a pro and con.)
- Making good use of time is more critical, mistakes can make or break a set. The player who makes fewer mistakes wins.

Endurance Matters
- By allowing more time, and allowing some forgiveness for a few mistakes, increasing the time (infinitely) results in a spread between two close opponents to eventually show itself.

Aside: Why I don't consider the 'con' a reason to choose 15 minute matches.:
If two opponents who are similar in skill only play 1 hour matches, you're more likely to have the same victor in every match than if you were to have them play a series of 10 minute matches. While this is great at determining precisely who is better (on that map at that time), it is not nearly as exciting or interesting, and makes brackets more predictable (which discourages participation and activity).

Thanks for your input, all your opinions sounds valid to me, but was this a change when QL was launched, or was it already a change in CPMA?

It happened during the closed beta stage of Quake Live if I recall.

cpma physics based on quakeworld's physics. many aspects are from quakeworld too. 10 minutes matches also from quakeworld...

it's based on quake physics, quake 1, 2, 3

a

cpm and people still clinging on to it are just sad.

ppl clinging to quakelive are just as sad

4.5 million prizepool for dota 2 championship
9k+free potats for quakelive

at least cpmers aren't delusional and think there's going to be a great comeback around the corner, lol.

"the messiah is coming next week, i just know it"

how do you mean there's not gonna be a big comeback? quakelive itself is a big comeback and step up in terms of player base compared to vq3/osp/cpma of last few years.

how dare I play a game I enjoy!

what would you define clinging on as?

idiots like these

shouldn't you be playing the latest cod or whatever?

stop clinging to ql

go check my ql profile and search for last game played. see who's clinging to what.

beastmode

That comeback though.