quake is life
(and shooter)

So clan arena is the only game-type that can be judged as a shooter in quake?

Instagib

Yeah, I think it would be instagib. I mean, in CA, you still have the choice of which weapon to use and keeping track of the ammo of each weapon. So really, CA is just an inventory simulator.

ROFL! From now on CA is called inventory simulator in my book.

Just because there's a tactical element to it, doesn't mean it's not a shooter. Same with McD, they rarely sell/close down restaurants, they buy to gain access to more costumers. They would be into real estate if they would frequently buy and sell hoping to make a profit by trading real estates.

Wow, the esr circlejerk has spread. Congrats everyone.

he's not incliding so many factors in that thesis... you can't just take out acc number from the end of the game, compare it and say who has better aim lmao. then item pickup is very often the result of dealt damage previously

you can win a game without picking up items but you can't without shooting

also even if all of the arguments were true quake still could be called a shooter. and the mcdonalds example..........

you can win a game without picking up items but you can't without shooting

the same way that no matter how many points of sale McDonalds has, if they stop selling Burgers tomorrow, they'll be fucked.

I'd be fucked too

Not to even mention poor ins :(

1:0 telefrag :P

His logic doesn't apply. Games that offer "more" according to him are still historically called shooters, and that's all that matters when applying that name, like with music genres.

I think he makes an interesting point though, he's not wrong that shooters can be fundementally different on that second not-shooting level. The mechanics of powerup respawns have definitely served to elevate Quake above games with only shooting or a weaker (nearly always) 'second level' how he calls it.

Attacking in any sport is also pointless if you don't defend at all, they have active and passive situations for both sides. Just because it has more depth than the rest of the shooters doesn't make it less of a shooter, it's actually a more complete one (gameplay wise), but the main goal is still to kill the other dude, direct rockets to the face is still more effective than having red armor.

ok, quake is real time strategy. Exactly the same as starcraft.

everyone having an opinion on what quake is and what quake isnt, is ALWAYS referring to it as somehow quake is only duel, yes it's duel we see as the competition now, but does that mean every quaker only spends time playing duels? no, ofc not. That's why videos and talking about quake this way somehow gets to me. Call it what is is, duel, not "quake".

These points apply to all gamemodes that have items, i.e. FFA or TDM

I realized that when I was writing it, and I did that because I know that's how most people here treat it. But actually most of my quake experience is in CA and CTF (only recently duel) and I would say I just enjoy playing QUAKE whatever the gametype.

End gametype-based prejudice!

This may be a useful way of thinking when trying to understand what is happening in the game on a higher level.

But it's an entirely retarded mindset when you want to talk about what the game actually is.

"Quake is not necessarily about shooting" would be a perfectly fine statement.

accuracy isn't the biggest factor to win a game

It can easily become the biggest factor if the difference in dmg done/taken is big enough. An Evil on form with 45% shaft and 60% rail will easily win against someone with 25% with both guns even if he only gets a 50hp+YA a minute and the other guy gets MH+RA+YA.

Ofc it's not a shooter, shooters are games like Gradius and R-Type, etc...

According the the OP's logic, those aren't shooters but dodgers Kappa

The same way America is defending its homeland in Middle East!
Kappa

shooters class a broad range of games, while gradius is a shooter it also sits in the sub genre shmup.

quake is a shooter, do you shoot a shit ton of stuff, yes, its a shooter

Quake is a first person shooter.

Shmup is an internet term which came about in the last five years. The aforementioned games were always called shooters or shoot-em-ups in the 90's, english language, gaming press.

Shmup is short for shoot-em-up.

HOUSE OF THE DEAD

You can't drive such conclusions about the game based on statistical data of shots fired and items picked up because it's hugely situational. One picks more armors because he has a higher accuracy, what happens then? Quake becomes a shooter once again?

One playstyle differs from another, one player decides to sacrifice overall accuracy percentage by spaming grenades in RA podium - surely the guy grabbing the RA will get +100 armor but may trip on those nades that are effectively decreasing ones accuracy.

What about baiting people on YAs? What about heavy RG users who jsut seem to hit ridiculous shots and depleting every piece of armor you pick up? Does that make the game a shooter?

I do agree that items play a major role in duel but I will never agree that quake is something else than a shooter. It's a shooter with some item-picking elements that are crucial, but at the end of the day still a shooter.

Quake isn't only a shooter

how bout ctf?

The tactical element sprouted over the years like finest potats. I don't think that when quake 1 multiplayer was first implemented the developers had any idea that the tactics would become so evolved (like finest potats) in q1 or it's successors (ie: delaying items, among a dozen other things). So at it's core/roots/spuds, quake is a shooter, regardless of the tactical depth it has acquired.

In other words, if quake live was actually the first arena FPS ever and nobody had a clue what to do, in the beginning people would be just running around shooting at eachother (relatively) mindlessly, without tactics, and it would be the shootiest shooter ever.

yeeeeeeeee
to add onto this

aim + shooting was already perfected so long ago that the top players dove into other aspects of the game such as timing/strategy instead of just running and gunning. Essentially the game hasn't changed much at all over the last decade (or two) so to get better than the last guy, u have to improve on deeper levels that involve other skillsets. rapha/cypher battle out on a far greater level than just aim + position + time.

I dont think I've seen another shooter stick around for that long besides quake. mb its also because the companys lazy on making games :D

If we had a new quake game every year like call of duty or something, I imagine the scene might be a bit different.

+back

Just want to point out that I posted this video critically, I'm not entirely agreeing with his points. Yes, quake (in all gametypes, but specifically duel) is far more than simply shooting, but it is still an innate part of the game and obviously can't be ignored or bypassed.

His point that looking at DH13 stats proves acc is not important is flawed, but I think the point he wanted to make is that all top players have more or less as good accuracy as possible (and have exhausted the possibilities to improve at 'shooting') and thus the game revolves more around tactics.

It's a very provocative title "Quake isn't a shooter", he should probably used "Quake is more than just a shooter".

I'd be interested to know how experienced he is in quake, I've left a comment on the video.

it's easy to be fooled by data

the difference in accuracy can still be the most important factor in quake. it's just not going to be apparent when you compare two extremely good aimers.

guess who picks up the items? the person who survived the firefight
guess who knows the timing of the next spawn? the person who lived and noted down the exact pickup time


it's like saying APM doesn't matter in starcraft because some guy with 400 APM lost to some guy who had 350. let either of them play the guy with 30 APM and see what happens.

but quake might be less of a shooter than most FPS games. shooting might only be 70% of the skill in quake, while it might be 95% in others.

It might be 95% of of other shooters, but there's a hell of a lot more shooting happening in Quake.

Just wanna bump and express my disappointment that nobody noticed my reference with

bowing to the king, quake.

I thought someone would get it...

That nobody commented on it doesn't mean nobody noticed it.

was it that lame that it didn't even deserve acknowledgement? :(

Yes, Tyrone. Sorry.