Railgun level = COOLLER

quake community members affecting the changes


pfff, like that ever happened))

At least it's worth a try :)

we have nothing to lose!

so please guys VOTE! :)

I was thinking 6.5 might be a compromise for LG... Take a bit of the edge off, but don't nerf it.

This whole idea of increasing rail and decreasing LG makes no sense. The people who are really deadly with one are usually good with both guns, considering both are high-powered hitscan weapons with no spread.

You have to use whole integers.

quake die soon,we can not do anything :(

They dont give a shit about us, but i voted yes...


Shitstorm incoming when update is out.

not shitstorm, but quakemania

Just dropping this in : the rl wasn't buffed, at least not directly.

The splash size doesn't change. The splash damage was reverted back to what it was in q3. It won't actually deal more damage except for the hits so close they might as well have been direct rockets. The only noticeable difference it *might* make is in the pops *if* it's tied to damage.

pops are tied to damage

Well then the turbopops might end up being less random than they are now.

RL needed more knockback on opponents, not more damage.

Also take note, highest rocket jumps will now take 50, not 42, damage. Same for jumps like ztn GL to RA, used to take like 24, will be more.

This, more knockback needed.

I'd rather see the LG lose a bit of range but keep the damage. I think that'd be a better compromise.

This would defeat the purpose of having lg alltogether. Decreasing range = more skill required sure but also the player becomes so much more prone to rockets at closer range. Whereas rockets at longer range (or the current range) actually take skill lol.

to me...

it's a rocket launcher it should have more splash damage.

lg is fine.

rail 100 dmg 1500 ms reload like q3.

rail 100 dmg 1500 ms reload like q3.

would make the rail OP imo.

no thanks it will be instagib on every single map

I've actually being thinking a lot about these changes and the weapons dmg changes are the only thing i like about them in a competitive enviroment. Ever since evil has entered the scene i feel the lg is being overused. Sure the rocket change removes certain strategies such as going for directs but it's better than an increased dmg radius or dmg output. Rg i am less sure about but imo it is a bit underpowered and the increased dmg is good.

Maybe this update could bring new players. Like when i used to play cod4 there was always a pro server to play. These "pro servers" would remove all the op weapons and gimmicks the game had and made it much more balanced for a competitive environment and the regular servers would still exist because the noobs enjoyed them more. But apparently even with classic servers we still have "loadouts" whatever that is. All in all only time will tell.

You didn't give any options to reduce rocket launcher splash...

Rockets splash should be reduced drastically but increase the rof. This will prevent people who can only hit the ground from being able to play.

Just fix the ammo system as it was in OSP (you can't get more than 100 shaft by restacking the weapon for example so you need ammo boxes for extra) and perhaps do weapon respawntime 10.

Are you crazy ? People would have to care !

nerf rg, keep rl and lg as they are now

You can't nerf rg enough to make that nerf matter more without making it borderline useless.

Sure, RG is actually too fast on reload compared to Q3. Essentially they are returning QL weps to Q3 weps. RL will be bouncy again, LG will receive damage nerf (not really a fan of that), and RG will do more 100 damage again, but with a longer reload. It will actually make you have to combo again.

Pretty sure rg rof wasn't touched ( googled real quick and found 1500ms ).
The buff to 90dmg isn't significant, it's gonna make rail a touch more powerful but there won't be any tactile feedback or more "2 rails to kill now" situations that could really be pinpointed ingame ( kinda works in chunks of 20-25dmg ).

It's significant if you spawn near yellow and get railed at 120/50.

I should have known some smart ass would miss my point.

but there won't be any [...] more "2 rails to kill now" situations

And that was an example of a situation which happens really often, you're always between 170 and 175 total health.

And in this common case, situation changes from "let's rush, I have 3 seconds of damage" to "omg I'm railable, escape".

I'm not trying to be a smartass, to me this happens really often and I can tell you with full confidence - I would feel this change instantly. Maybe I would finally force myself to +back more though, who knows! :)

For the most part it's the other way around. Unless you're playing rapha, the other dude won't be able to keep tabs on your hp/ap close enough to make decisions.
We're going to see a bunch of pseudo-educated guesses / rail spam for a while and then it'll stabilize to pretty much what's going on right now - give or take the smart asses railing fresh spawns :D - because +10dmg simply doesn't give enough feedback to make a reliable read in most cases.

I'm talking exactly about railing fresh spawner who just picked or is about to pick a yellow armor. You don't need to be rapha to know that he's not railable. You just know.

And I play(ed) TDM where it's really an every game occurrence where you know you can rush a railer off spawn with MG and YA. Yes, I'm a stupid rusher but it's fun! Learning to +back is not fun, I prefer to leave that for duel players ;)

Currently, that dude would be dead in 2 rails and a shitty shotgun blast/some mg. It's not exactly a game changer in duel although I guess it does make more sense in tdm.

You act like the difference between 2rails+shotgun/mg is equal to 1 rail finish. You are talking about weps of different range and damage. RG would be a gaurunteed finish, but not something you would use otherwise. Let's do a little math on 2 rails, plus wep switch to finish, verse a straight up RG finish...you're an idiot.

You act like the difference between 2rails+shotgun/mg is equal to 1 rail finish.

wat

A rail will almost assuredly kill, but it will come with a bigger investment than it has now. It will be a real risk/reward wep. I think it's interesting. They are balancing the weps and making them quite specific tools. LG will still be good, but a 40 LG isn't going to be that great without first chipping and positioning with RL and likely relying on an RG finish. I mean, the other rumors are disturbing, but these wep changes seem pretty positive, well considered, and game changing to me.

You didn't have a point. It's significant.

How's the weather in Vancouver ?

In the 90 range.

seems around 1200 ms. feels faster than q3.
I'm probably wrong though.

well, if i got to design my own railgun i would probably have it make 100dmg like in q3. However, i would make it a projectile weapon - like really really fast (2-3k ups???) - so that you would need to lead with it, and lead more the further away the target is. I guess what im after is the feeling you had aiming with, say, 30-50 ping in osp (+ you need to lead more the further your target is). Make it a bit more skillfull to use, but with that 100 damage reward.

The changes proposed by id to those values are just scratching the surface. The whole point of the outburst of nerdrage is that, when you read the whole patch notes, it's clear they are changing the game completely, to something it's not what we played, not quake.

Nonetheless I voted cooller

Too bad we couldn't vote WMO.

That's the same.

Nice poll. Voted for everything to keep as is, except for RG = COOLLER!

It would be interesting to see the same polls with results from the official forums and from random players (not only high tier) in the game.

voting for the options is basically like giving your approval towards these changes.

don't vote if you want to be heard

I dunno, I like it. It will make Q3 juggling a thing again. RL to bounce, LG in air, RG to finish. I know that sounds like a gross euphemism...but I cant wait to start Q3 style juggling again. I just wanna start juggling all you guys...I can't help it.

Why the FUCK would they nerf LG but buff both RG and RL?

The game is already often dominated by +back rocket spam and peek rails. Why should players who spent time improving their LG skill be punished?

The current weapon balance in QL is fine but is still a step down from VQ3

Most people who say that LG is overpowered and overused will have less than 20% LG usage and would rather whinge about it instead of actually improving.

The game is already often dominated by +back rocket spam and peek rails.

Meanwhile, at the top level, you have multiple players who able to compete up there mainly and sometimes solely because of their shaft acc. You don't get that with any other weapon. Explain this.

Yeah like these players haven't been on top 5 or even 10 years ago.
My head hurts(

Alltimes lucky.

It won't really nerf LG at all. It will make it a solid component in a kill like Q3 days. You will always start with RL to splash/launch opponent, and then trace them through air with LG and plug them with RG when they land as RG buff is gaurunteed kill. It will make LG more trace friendly as opposed to loosely reliant on left/right netcode 'dodging'. However good you are with OP LG will directly translate given you can fire a rock approx at a guys feet and bounce him. I love how everyone hates on QL, keeps crying about cpma/osp/vanillaQ3, but doesn't remember how those things actually worked. You GOT it now, and it's actually really good.

i support new changes ... i would like to see less lg battles in duels.

Yeah, as much as I love LG, it's too heavy in play. Q3 was classically the bouncy the RL with the support weps to finish. RL isn't a finisher, it's a positioner, but it's strong. I think this sounds good to be honest.

i actually feel like they did not tackle the LG matter in the proper way.

What's needed to be fix about LG is that it's just too dominant in midrange.. And that nowadays, for very very experienced players with great setup, it is too easy to hit.

I feel like it's actually good to have the chance to pick what you are most comfortable on in short-range battle, and nerfing it down by a full 15% of the damage output will have a MASSIVE impact on the overall effectiveness of the weapon that it might make it almost unusable, let alone short range where powered up rockets (+ random plasma\SG burst) will be the forced choise, in most of the situations.

I think there were smarter things to do to downgrade the lg-centrism that nowadays you'll see around, some examples:
1) add some extra delay to make it pratically a very very fast projectile
2) fix the "bug" which doesn't make the lg lag behind if you just strafeaim
3) nerf it in a 765 or 766 manner, the further away, the lower the output.
4) lower the knockback

this way you are just giving less options all together instead of varying the field, effectively just moving the initial problem of overuse from lg to another weapon.

I'm not surprised of this anyway, as the more this game goes on, the less options you seem to have.

But well, it could be that the problem here is felt to be: being lg'd as a newcomer isn't a good initial experience and so you try to remove it all together from the game. Either way, wp.

Lg should be 6, its time for a massive change guys

Quakers hate changes. They prefer to die in a dungeon, chained to the Wall of Supremacy than to evolve and go see some people outside.

Stop being retarded already.

Then better get used to Warsow or Xonotic with their amazing playerbase :]

Right? How sad it is that these games are better option? :D

If ID wants to introduce casual mode and classic mode - what's the problem for fucks sake. Competitive plays will still work with "classic" Quake while newfags will telefrag themselves in casual mode. That kind of separate paths works great in CS:GO now.

Welcome to Quake Live's history class!

2009 - QL comes to live (open beta).
2010 - QL cuts shit in half and makes you pay for it.
2014 - QL cuts quake and makes you pay for it.

QL has nothing to do with CS on any level.

They are just wanting more money, and now i have to pay monthly to play a normal game

Is it not possible for a pro player to create the normal game rulesets that everybody loves available for standard players? Or do i NEED to have premium/pro?

£ £ £ £ £ £ £ £ £ £ £ £ £ £ £
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How CS:GO implements it is far different than the path QL is going.

CS:GO is a model of how QL should be really, but it's never going to happen.

If that's a synonym for "striving for perfection", then yes.

I dont understand those changes in the first place!
Does ID really believe that those little changes (which are destroying Quake) brings up MORE players?

Those little things doesnt help for new players and the old one will be totally upset about their ruined gameplay.

So why are you doing this ID?

Cleaning place for DooM4 ;)

I don't understand devs reason to buff rg. New players are dominated if they play vs strong players, but if it happens let's say in rocket fight they at least have some feeling of the game. When they are just railed from distance, not even seeing the enemy, it's more likely they'll quit.

you know esreality is serious when option COOLLER has no chance against "keep it like it is"

LG is dominant and RL was nerfed in QL. Everybody was mad about this when QL released. And yet, what did it yeild? Every year pro's and schmo's became more accurate on hitscan and new people could enter the fray. You can watch an '08 pro game and watch a '13/'14 game and see how much tracing and aim has improved. It's almost too aim-heavy at this point. You could put an average t5 player in a time capsule, send him back to 2010, and he would wreck every pro purely based on hitscan, map knowledge.

k1llsen would be happy. he is rocket and rail heavy - although his lg is not bad either but he would definitely benefit from the this change. Trying to play more rocket, rail based will definitly make the game more defensive though (we used to have that).

I actually liked the weapon balance but on pro level you can definitely tell that the lg is too strong.

Yeah true. Killsen just needs rail :)

Why not increase speed of rocket, reduce the splash radius, increase its kick and reduce direct rocket hitbox size, as it would be easier with faster rockets.

Maybe reduce LG power but I like it as it is, if the rocket speed is increased as above. If nerfed, increase its knock back.

Rail dmg well, depends on spawn health values, and current reload time, but if its still 125hp, and armours remain the same values, then 80 - 90 makes little difference. Impressive = 160 180 not much of a big deal.

On Balance if 100-110 is a direct rocket, and that is much harder to do, then a direct rail shot. which is much easier. at 100 dmg seems out of balance, then the reload time of rail would have to be increased. Sadly so many variables.

I hope they read the views and polls, but without all other info that they hold it is impossible to give good input?

Just bring back VQ3 rockets.

Noobs only vote for 100 rocket splash and 6dm lg cause they can play like campers with rl and even dont use lg cause they have 25 acc lg..........

Less.

bump :)

continue to vote guys! :)

ty & hf!

Voted.

Thing is all of these changes are dependant on so many other variables like: physics, armor values, loadout potentials, quad values, respawning of items, etc etc.

rockets 6 dmg
lg close 100 like a taser
rail 100

gg

voted!

RL 90 sounds realy nice.
LG 7 as it is ofc.
RG 80 or shootmania >:X

I find it funny how most players who complain about LG being overpowered and overused have less than 20% usage on their weapon stats.

Nerfing the LG is a really terrible idea, I mean it's already underpowered unless you have good aim.

While I agree that LG can be OP at mid-range, a much better solution would be making the beam shorter, not lowering the DPS.

I can't believe whinging about LG on the QL forums instead of actually improving is actually going to pay off for those people.....

People whined when LG was nerfed like there was no tomorrow

Guess what, years of tomorrows later, LG is still the most whored gun and people seem to have no problem

If something isn't broken, break it.

okay guys so I showed sponge the thread and he took a look at the votes.

He basically said that he's not surprised by the outcome of the votes and that they will probably keep the lg like it is but they still plan to make changes regarding the others weapons. He said aswell that nothing is definitive yet and that they are trying out different settings, if I understood correctly :).
So, wait and see!

Are you sure he didn't say the opposite?

The results - votes for no change:
lg - 51%
rl - 68% (counted options 84 and 85 as it's pretty much the same)
rg - 70% (percentage after excluding the COOLLER option)

So if anything of the 3, they can change lg but not the others.

interesting :)

you're right i guess.

but nop he didn't say the opposite :p

stfu heartless

^^

The thing is, you can't really fix any weapon balance issue without changing the netcode.

Theoretically, there's nothing wrong with the LG as it is now. 7 dmg per cell worked fine in RA3, LG was still dominant but not too much. The problem with QL lies in the fact that the LG is unlagged, so it is not very hard to hit 60-80% in some angles, even with a highish ping or a bad connection, and against anyone. That's the massive difference with Q3, and it has nothing to do with people improving over time or playing on a better setup. It's not supposed to be easily doable to hit ~50% LG, or else, obviously, it radically changes the weapon balance and affects the gameplay itself.

So, yes, 6 dmg per cell would be slightly better, at least.

i don't mind lg 7, but i do wonder what would lg 6 bring in terms of duel lg fights, would this bring less lg figths. One would argue that bringing lg dmg down will be alot more demanding in a lg to lg fight since you need to focus longer to stay on target.

best way is to play, i'll spawn tonight.
however, if you hit 34% lg now, you should hit 40% to achieve the same dps.

Everyone votes for everything to stay as it is... no surprises there =D

For me it looks like id is desperately trying to recover the weapon balance which they destroyed themselves before.

The prediction code radically changed the balance, tons of players getting 40+ lg.

Aye.
But what now? Heres hoping the focus tests will prove their changes worthy of implementation. If they will restore the balance...right now it appears we will go back to RG being the king .

The results are in..

I am the voice of the developers. By the power bestowed in me by the Kitty and SyncError, I want to pronounce that:

We want to end lg whoring by encouraging rg whoring and giving a small bitchslap to rocket monkeys.

We are really clueless on how to fix the weapon balance because Sponge spilled coffee over notes that were the early draft of weapon changes. Now we have to improvise.

There are voices in this community that encourage going back to quake 3 weapon settings. This will not happen because we must do something and reverting back to old settings would prove thst we shouldn't have changed the weapons in the first place, therefore causing a logical paradox and nullifying a reason for our existence.

Thank you for your understanding.