yeah, get lucky

Damn .... ... that.. ...... movement ..... makes .... me ... sleee...... zzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzZZzzZZzzzzzZZZz .....

call me ignorant but i had to close that vid after 30 seconds.

oh, you made that far. i think i was somewhere about 15 sec and then had to quit.

play cpma.Then QUAKELIVE Damn .... ... that.. ...... movement ..... makes .... me ... sleee...... zzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzZZzzZZzzzzzZZZz .....

Take huge load of amphetamine and then next day. Damn .... ... that.. ...... movement ..... makes .... me ... sleee...... zzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzZZzzZZzzzzzZZZz .....

Play Quakeworld and then CPMA, damn.................that.................mo..........ve.......zZzZzZzZzZz

Play Quakeworld and then CPMA, damn.................that.................mo..........ve.......zZzZzZzZzZz

play MAIDAN, fireing ppl in Odessa, bombing lugansk Damn .... ... that.. ...... movement ..... makes .... me ... sleee...... zzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzZZzzZZzzzzzZZZz .....

I think the main reason for that is because Fatal1ty seems to be incredibly shit at the game.

he's a former world champion in ut2k4 though.

Pardon?

No that was ut2k3 afaik and remember he calls beating some newbs in a "challenge me contest" in a cybercafé a world championship.

didn't know that it was ut2k3... the other part was intented though. But sarcasm doesn't always work when written down :(

Just like when he got crushed in his "challenge me" booth at E3 2005 by CombatCarl, Gimix, Stryfe and some other's each taking away $2500. He's never won a WCG and only ever took Bronze @ ESWC 2003 and 1st in CPL Winter 2002 (lol 2 months after release), for UT2003. Nothing in UT2004.

How does anyone involved enough to make a game go to bed at night with that movement system?

It looks like its on a grid, like they don't have the brains to actually code in the relevant parameters to make it look fluid.

Its so horrible and awkward, it looks like someone's broken a bottle, shoved it up someone's ass and pointed a gun at them to run around, and the poor guy is torn between doing what he's told and the involuntary reaction the glass is having on his movement.

Its horrible. Change it or I won't even touch it.

This is not his game. He's making BlueStreak.

My bad. But still!

not everyone likes ice skating sports because that's what quake movement is like.
some prefer good old sports like football, tennis, basketball etc.

Some people also like to sleep with kids too.
Doesn't mean you should entertain the 'likes' of bad taste.

some people have stupid reasoning too.
it doesn't mean we can avoid them tho.

You're the one that implied bad movement in a game was somehow OK to enjoy.

I simply pointed out that just because people enjoy something, it doesn't make it ok.

When I brought you to that realisation, you then raged.

bad movement? so anyone not accepting ur point of view is wrong? are you some standard of lucrative opportunity investors should listen to?

your use of 'people' represents a majority of players playing ur game. which in truth is a very small number of players. hence the changes in every QL update. they need new 'blood' so to say or consumers.

i wouldn't want you to think im raging as that would actually press you to think that you are obligated to respond to my post again.

It's bad.

If someone enjoys something that's fine, they can never be wrong about that. It just is.

But if someone enjoys something which isn't as good as it could be in any walk of life and doesn't yearn for something which grows with the time they invest in the game, then you can draw negative conclusions about that person and their opinions.

I like shit games, but I accept they are shit, I don't defend them, I say they have a certain charm becauise of the setting and for me they make enjoyable expereinces, you can take SOMETHING from it.

You will never take anything from the UNREAL movement system.
You might like the game, but compared to what it could be with a few tweaks its almost a crime.

Movement in any game is a massive factor, the fact that it looks and feels so horrible and will NEVER offer you any form of expression or scope for interesting scenarios, aside from that clanky, jerky, boxy, grid thing they have going on is a crime in this day and age.

LOL?? Taste is subjective buddy get off ya high horse.

Get off your high dingo!

I like UT but the movement sucks horribly.

I kinda like it actually.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Gosh darn it. Freakin` unbelievable.

Even Fat ditched QL

UT's always been a casual shooter by design. Yes it can be played competitively, though it is not as interesting as the Quake games, but as far as it is casual I think the previous games have done really well, aesthetically, gameplay-wise, coding-wise etc. I look forward to this.

Hopefully for Zeroql's sake it doesn't have anticheat.

i really like ut's weapons but my god everything else is just so fucked up.

To be honest, the weapons in this game dont look like much fun.

Watching some fights from average players has them missing constantly and fights going on for around 5 seconds before anyone connects with a shot.

Its just constant awkward dodging and weapons that feel flimsy and weak. They felt pretty powerful in UT2k4 but in this they dont look like much.

The only thing this game will have that I am interested in right now is players. Some stuff looks ok but generally I cant see myself playing this for an extended period of time.

The rocket launcher looks ok though. Still looks like it feels strong and meaty

that falls under 'everything else is just so fucked up.' the flak cannon's bouncing projectiles, shock rifle's combo, etc. are really cool and offer creative gameplay tactics, the problem is that enemy models are way too fucking small and the instant boost of speed and height in any direction you get from a dodge makes it ridiculously hard to hit someone who isn't retarded.

They haven't even started working on the weapons yet.
Everything you are seeing are place-holders.

Just to clarify I was talking about gameplay not visuals. But yeah I'm sure they havent finished or even started balancing.

I just hope it gets better from here

It's like you can dash sideways at 320, but go forward at 200.

Just painful.

well.... dunno.

looks quite ok, what did you people expect out of an UT game?
as long as it's fun (..and the weapons have always been fun in UT) and has people playing, i'm down with it.

I imagine it would be killing me to have to wait until my next stupid little dash thing just so I can move faster than a glacier

It's prealpha played by guy who plays it for the first time. Epic Games changes a lot with each update. It's not finished product.

yes

The movement has been the same for over 10 years though, the fact that they keep doing it is no coincidence, its obviously a choice they like.

For me this isn't even a "its not quake" whine, the movement has always been a deal breaker for me, which is a shame as I would like to have a go,but when such a fundamental is how it is, its just not fun.

I seriously doubt anyone ever played quake and thought, this movement system is bad, its evolves with you.
They might have thought its bad because they are philistines, but this is different. This is never going to be good.

UT is not Quake and never will be. Deal with it. They have different concept for FPS game and that's it.

Majkif, please, nobody is annoyed that its different than quake. They are annoyed because its not good.

If it was good but different that wouldnt be a problem.

sorry but i do not see in this point of view, i see people doing crappy comments because THiS IS NOT QUAKE. that is the point in my opinion, different game.

do you think that if UT movement was amazing, but completely different to quake there would be a thread full of people complaining about it?

the only reason people are saying its bad is because they think its bad, not because its not strafe jumping

can you link me to a comment where someone thinks it sucks for not being quake?

my friend thats the impression that i have, other people that might like it just do not expressed themselves here. i say that because many of my friends that aren't related to any major FPS gaming liked it :0

dunno i still think the game is good, i just felt that the movement in the game could be just a little more smooth but, i already said that and one of the developers(i believe) has seen my comment and i hope he thinks about it.

i don't want to be rude, i just want to express that some other people liked it, but they don't have any relation with ESR as an user

I dont think that "I know some people who dont play quake that like UT movement, therefore everyone who plays quake and doesnt like it, hates it because its not quake" is a good argument.

Thats like saying "I saw a mouse eat a crisp and therefore all mice eat a packet of doritos every day"

Nothing to do with your data suggests that the only reason a quake player could hate UT movement is that its not Quake.

You are taking irrelevant data and reaching an incorrect conclusion that your data does not point to.

Do you have any actual evidence or quotes to suggest that the people in this thread hate it simply because its not quake?

why should i waste my time of taking data on the internet about people that play quake have a clue about UT4 Alpha?

you are taking it too long, this is a forum not a job.

i have many brazilian friends that DO NOT have an account at ESR and still they play FPS and they like to know about of the new games that are being launched. this is simple.

"my data" is not wrong, wrong are you being super sarcastic and unrealistic. and also the majority of the people of ESR do play quake.

im not suggesting you go out and collect data. You presented some that had nothing to do with your conclusion.

you having friends without esr accounts who like UT movement has NOTHING to do with the accusation that people in this thread only hate UT movement because its not Quake. Literally nothing.

Dont respond to my comment telling me its wrong then present the reason you think this and get annoyed if I refute it.

your "data" is fine, the conclusion you reached with it is not.

my friend, the world that you see isn't the world that others beings see too. the fact is that ESR is majority in quake, so people will see the game as a quake player, which is very different by others perspectives. a CS player will think that UT is fast, but quakeworld is even faster. to have an opinion of something you must see it as many point of views as possible...

just because most people here are quake players, that does not mean the reason they hate UT movement is because its not quake.

I dont know why you think thats some absolute truth.

raed most of the comments and you might change your opinion. the game's movement is quite the same as in UT2004, so why don't people blame UT2004 instead?

I think the people that complain that UT movement is slow, shallow and jerky would say the same thing about UT2k4. I certainly would.

so this is clear that the most of them play quake, because mostly you can only get this impression by some source, the source is quake. just what i said some posts here.

oh my god. I give up. I dont know if theres a language barrier here or something but I get the feeling that what I am saying isnt coming through on your end.

yes everyone here plays quake

no that doesnt mean they hate ut simply because its not quake

definitely you are reading it WRONG

i said MOST or MOSTLY, i didn't say that EVERYBODY in this website are quake players, for god's sake you even in the top of the bottom of the conversation you don't SEE the point.

oh sweet jesus. Thats not even the point I'm disputing.

I will lay out my points clearly because you seem to be arguing things that I am not even talking about.

1. I agree with you that most people on this site are quake players.

2. That does not mean that the only reason they dislike UT movement is because they play quake.

Basically, they dislike it because its bad in their eyes, not because its different than quake.

the point that you didn't see and that i am trying to explain is:

you need a base on your argument, this base is quake, so you compare all games because of quake. as i said before: a CS player would see the video with other perspective.

so you claim that the movement is weird/bad in some occasions for example, so you have it because you played/play QUAKE. if i get a person that didn't play any games and i show him UT4 he will see it as a fast game probably. so you might think: not as faster as quakeworld or either quakelive.

so that is the point that i am trying to explain it. you only have a conception because your conception is based on something that did exist before you judge other games. and that is the reason why not many regular quake players like changes, because changes bring new concepts of the game.

so in resume: you have your point of view because your base of concept/knowledge is quake.

so try to see in some other perspective, like if a BF player would play UT he wouldn't think that the movement is bad/wrong, for example.

I know what youre trying to say. That the common denominator for people who dislike this is quake.

But that still doesnt mean that they dislike it for not being quake. They have real reasons for disliking it.

Its not a case of them just disliking it for no reason or for stupid reasons, they have genuine cause to dislike it

Just because a lot of quake players share this opinion, that doesnt mean they hate it for not being quake.

So I see what you are trying to say, and I see why you think what you think, but you have reached the wrong conclusion.

Theres a difference between hating UT for being bad and hating it for being different to quake. Just because quake players happen to be hating it, that isnt enough proof to suggest the reason for this is that its not quake.

no you didn't get my point of view. my point of view is that based on the knowledge that you have the only base you have is quake, so MOSTLY things that don't look attractive isn't that good.

this is what i think of you.

you have a point that some quake players will criticize the game because of some thing that isn't good. but the fact is that they claim about the movement, and the movement is the same as UT2004, so it comes again for what i said, the problem is that here mostly people only play quake so they don't have another perspective to see the game as a different than quake.

this is my point of view, if you like or not.

I disagree but I've lost the will to argue

I'll try and explain what he means in a simpler way:

Do you remember Painkiller? That games movement was very much like Quake movement in a lot of ways.

BUT most of ESR still disliked the Painkiller movement because at the end of the day even with all its smoothness and apparent similarity to Quake there was 1 giant flaw: it was not very good.

yes, i understand that and i agree

what i do not agree is that as i said: MOSTLY ESR are quakers and i haven't seen any reasonable commentaries in this way that you mentioned.

but remember, as you said: "Do you remember Painkiller? ..very much like Quake movement.."

the only point that i mention is that mostly people here even liking the game or disliking need to see FPS from a more perspective of view, don't you think?

imagine that the first car you bought was a Ferrari, then you drive it so neatly etc. but then a japanese new car comes up with a lot of potential to become a great car, you see its stats and you find that in some cases the car is "better/different" than your ferrari and in others you could say: noway my ferrari is the best. but what really mean best? for example the japanese has lower speed but has more stability for example, what is really better is what it means to people, so try to see things as much as many point of views as possible is better tho.

these kinda of "thoughts" regard to philosophy, i also make another comparison: beers! there are: stout, stout creamy, red ale, black ale, pilsener, pilsen, weiss.. think about it.

the game is fine, just different.. same movement as UT2004..

Yes but that is the point he's trying to make.

Lets say quake is a ferrari and ut is a lamborghini and unnamed game x is a porsche. All three are very good brands in their own right, it just so happens that i don't like the look of a lamborghini, A Porsche on the other hand well i could see myself driving that , its not a ferrari but that doesnt matter its still a pretty car in my eyes.

I gave all three a fair shot but i just prefer the Porsche or the Ferrari over the Lamborghini.

that is the point that i think, do not like is one thing, saying that something is wrong with something that is working fine isn't a problem is it? :D

its just different, not wrong :)

Well if you do not like the look of something then most people will say 'its not good" in their eyes. I can see why you think he's being unfair but you should not read his "its not good" as a factual universal statement.

He does not have the power to speak for the entire human race, he just speaks for himself

i kinda know that, but as much as the person insist i keep pressuring against, like law of physics :D this is my philosophical side working on :D

but hey, thanks for the comment!

tl;dr: UT = shitty movement + overcomplicated (+many useless) weapons

Your greatest struggle is to go from A to B while the route being a straight corridor.

Ferrari F40 is a great car.

U know u got issues when ure tl;dr ing a 7 line comment :P

Yeah. Issues with the pointlessly long discussion above.

what about this bad boy? The only problem with some Lamborghini's is that they have a tendency to catch fire. Hope that's not a clever link to the topic :)

When will the elitists from Quake finally get it into their thick skulls that you CANNOT have Quake movement in UT!!!!

If you do that, you have to change all weapons, too.
You think you could evade any weapon at all, if I brought my UT arsenal of weaponry into QL?

Even the enforcer (the weakest weapon in UT) would be stupidly over-powered in QL. With the exception of the LG at close range, the enforcer would be the best weapon in QL.

Try evading the shock in QL with its elitist movement...
Movement is extremely predictable in Quake. Shock combo = boom, you're dead every time.
The sniper with its 150 HP damage and its rate of fire (3 x higher than rail)... how far do you think you'll get with your quake movement when I'm yielding that sniper?

The weapons is what makes UT fun. And for those weapons to work, you need movement that is less predictable (read: no momentum) and faster (yes it is faster directional change-wise): The quake elitist call this 'jerky' movement.
Well, guess what... jerky movement is a requirement for UT to work - unless you want every 20min TDM match to end with a 5000-4500 frag count, cos nobody is able to evade the powerful weapons with the quake movement that you insist EVERY OTHER GAME MUST HAVE - or else it sucks.

UT will never work with a movement system that is based on momentum, period.

UT would be fucking amazing with CPM movement dude.

You can still have dodge and Strafe jumping in the same movement system.

i remember playing a mod for UT2004 that had some kind of strafe jumping but with a UT twist, can't really remember how it worked but it was different then CPM.
It worked well and i thought it was fun as hell to play but at that time i was very bored with UT2004 though.

Anyway i don't think its the weapons that is the reason why they wont add momentum to the movement, i just not what UT is, it could be... but it isn't.

ye, sure, except that in every title where people were talking like this the worst things and bugs from alphas and betas made it to final gameplay anyways.

Its ok to complain about the game in its current state though. Thats the whole point of a public facing alpha.

No point ignoring all its flaws because its not finished. Point them out and hope they get sorted.

It's hardly the first time Fatality has played the UT games, this doesn't look much different to the previous ones and he did win CPL in UT.

Does the sniper (un scoped) work much the same as railgun in quake? Didn't seem to be bale to hit much with it.

i kinda felt the same, and am I wrong or is very difficult to find a frag with sniper? because of the opposite's movement? i felt something strange that the sniper is harden than others. what is your clue?

This may give you a better idea of the current state of the new ut.

Beautiful. This gonna be good :3

best video to show off the game I have seen so far.

It still doesnt look good but it looks far better than the other videos

Check hypno's channel, he also has some movement demonstration videos.

I feel like there isn't enough of a punishment for missing with the shock rifle. See how he just spams it like it's rockets on a spacemap :/

This is not the final version of the game and I can confirm you that the devs are talking with the top players in order to get the game going in the right direction.

... which, in this case, means changing the Shock Rifle from the last three games. Let's see :p

This looks about 500% better. I guess fatality is just an ultranoob?

Dude, that guy rages at nooby-assed FFA players and thinks they conspire with each other to 'focus' him down.

His opinion is meaningless.

This is how everyone imagines himself playing his favorite game: raping everyone 30:0
And then we end up with servers full of infuriated frustrats ;-)

I'm kind of disappointed. The game at a glance looks like UT99 with a graphical facelift. I was hoping for at least some newer weapons, anything for the game to look different than its predecessors.

They haven't even started working on the weapons yet.
Everything you are seeing are place-holders.

None of the maps you are seeing are not done.

The only thing they have seriously worked on, so far, is the movement. And even that isn't done yet.

For some reason UT movement reminds me of this guy:

cv ruleset zoidberg

The way the sniper rifle is used at 1:12 is amazing.

Looks like driving car with rectangular wheels to me

What a fine metaphor.

so in short it's exactly like every other UT?

I've not seen one UT game that shows any player with amazing skills with movement, the movement is just broken in UT

Bad example of the movement imo, the other video posted in this thread shows it with a much faster pace and flow. I'm a bit confused about which video is showing the latest gameplay and so on now though, waiting for Hypno to get to the US and get a better idea of where they are from him than these random videos.

I read on Facebook that there's going to be a test play with pro UT players in Europe too which could be interesting! :)

Yeah its a bad video movement wise and the other one is a lot better for sure.

But its still a bit.. weird.. the whole semi-sideways jumping thing.

Mr. astz! to the rescue imo :D

Is that the same Hypno as from Hæmorrhage aka [H] from Portugal?

Erm, I think so. :)

There is a Hypno in QL too, just played FFA against him, same guy?

Most likely not.

Yes I played for [H], a long time ago though :)

I was hyped for UT4 but I played 2k4 recently and hated the movement. I loved that game back in the day but quake ruined the movement for me.

I never got hyped about UT4 because of the movement alone, I couldn't see them using anything other than the 99/2k4 movement, since anything else wouldn't be like UT. no point in getting excited hoping the movement will change, when it probably won't

to the movement haters, you people ARE aware that there's a ton of people that love ut movement and find it a lot more advanced than ql's simple mouse swaying?

yes, all 17 of them ;p

i did casually play all the ut's aside from 2k4, but the movement has always been a bit meh to me. that and it feels like either the maps are huge or the models are tiny, just feels weird :>

Great for them! Can I suck these dicks in a dick?

lol

thats a terrible argument. theres a ton of people that like all sorts of stupid shit.

think of the worst band, film, song whatever, and you can bet theres a fuck ton of people who love it

that doesnt make it good

i'm pretty sure if you wrote that on UT community forums they'd tell you the same.

don't be a retard, even though it's hard seeing how you're a frequent ESR-ian, but just try to understand that rest of the world has views different than a shitty little bulettin board stuck in 1999 when their game ruled the world.

I'm sure they would, but you tried to prove people wrong by saying "lots of people like it" which is stupid because that doesnt make them wrong and it doesnt make the movement good.

I get that everyone else has views, and of course this is all down to opinion, but you havent provided a good argument for UT movement by saying that lots of people like it.

Instead, try explaining why the movement is good in your opinion.

"you are all wrong because lots of other people like it" is just a bad argument. everybody here is aware that lots of people like it

Fact of the day: stupid people do exist.

People also used to live in caves. That doesn't make it the best option.

6:40 he keeps trying to make circle jump :D
it might be very nice game if they reconsider ugly movement system. It does not matter will it be QL-like or something else, but make it fluid and smooth god damn, not so ragged like it is now.

Have you ever seen a fat person try to jump rope with 2 other people twirling the ends of the ropes? Well, neither have I but I can bet if there was a video of it, it would look like the movement in UT4.

fatality is fat btw :D

Looks terrible

same shit with esr quakers as always. everything that is not quake like will not be accepted. for me it doesn't matter if quake, cs or ut. we are all in this fps scene together. each game is difficult to master on its own. so please give our ut brothers some god damn respect.

Why? : D

More recent build of UT4 played by same guy

http://www.twitch.tv/fatal1ty/b/557980959

chumbo makes the game look much faster:

http://www.twitch.tv/chumbo_/b/557765141

Thanks for the link. Looks pretty awesome for a pre-alpha!

When you gonna show your face?

omg!dissy

is me (chumbo)

:>

Oh that's you dissy? Had no idea mate! How you doing? I had a scan through the vod, looks good! I'm practising UT2004 at the moment, trying to get some form back. Playoffs for the ck 3000$ cup are a week tomorrow (24th). After that I'll prob check out the alpha. :)

omg!astz! :D

Sure is me!

Been chatting about you and the uk scene a bit, but i believe you're a german now? WHAT!

Jump on irc when you're all set after ut2k4 and get playing some, someone of your experience would be awesome feedback :> Zaccubus has been hanging around so im surprised he hasnt nudged you haha.

GL in the ck cup dude. =)

The problem with ut movement is the speed difference between moving and dodging. I've shown quake and ut to non quake/ut players and the comment it always gets is "why is it so jerky"

If they changed that so you kept dodge speed for 500ms or however long it takes to dodge again the jerkiness would disappear. It would not have the same skill requirement as quake but at the same time it would not be painful to watch or play.

Is there any reason to not do this? I am from the ut camp and cannot think of any..

Of choose that will never happen, epic like being different for the sake of being different.

i think someone should test the acceleration values at the start and end of a dodge movement, but there's no real way to avoid ut's jerkiness.

There's no will to fix it or there is no way to fix it?

Former yes. Latter no.

Just make it so we can conserve the momentum from the dodge.

I could only watch half that video. I've played a lot over the weekend and it's much better than whats on show here.

checkerboard worlds, damn why didn't I think of that. Love it!

Very important question now )))))))))))))))))))))))

What's the relation between Russian players and UT?

more like SLOWPOKE TOURNAMENT 4 ..........jeeeezus christ its like quakelive underwater movement :D same speed