Excellent analysis of what is wrong with quake.

He has absolutely no clue what he is talking about.

yes he does. everything he said makes perfect sense and is patently true.

Amen.

pretty good video.

reflex you need to chuck the line out to these new players wanting an fps fix but are already disgruntled by ql

Valid points raised in this video.

As silly as it may sound, I think that hats would be a better business model than what id are doing right now. :p

Even better would be the crates and all that shit they have in CS:GO currently.

Its ridiculous, I know. But it seems to work on the kids these days.

id would be swimming in cash if they sold out and we'd all be better off for it really.

Shitton of ppl in Quake disable textures and forces everything to green robot.

No point in selling customization objects if others players can't see your awesome skins/models/etc. because you are
forcemodel "green wobot"

to them.

jesus you're dumb. enemymodels could easily stay the way they are but weapon models, projectiles, team models, effects etc could be forced to be visible. maybe have a separate pro-user or even more specificly tournament admin ability to force them off for competitive games, but even that is probably unnecessary.

ps you're a retard

Imagine disabling force model today in QL. Ppl would fucking rage. Any effects/projectiles/etc affect gameplay - some things are better visible, some not.

It's like many ppl playing Crash as playermodel in q3a to be harder to spot.

It might be good or bad - but many hard core players would be pissed.

nice reading comprehension

:)

they could just make skins for keel and tank jr since those are what's force modeled.
weapon skins
new weapon models
projectile skins

other shit

customization is not only textures.

little sound/model gimmicks would sell as hell.

ESR would go ape shit about turning it off. Ppl here download .cfg files of pros to use them. Now imagine customization you can't turn off.

Why not have a casual mode and a competitive mode? I mean they're already trying to do that, they might as well go all in on it and do it right (lol, i know, devs doing something right, haha). Casual mode = all or most settings are forced to what other people use. Comp mode=the quakelive we've been playing for years now. Isn't TF2 like that?

How you expect protect casuals from tier slummers? Also - we have default/classic modes atm. Look at server list what players and admins choose when they spawn servers. I think classic ruleset will extinct on pubs super quickly. Can't be any simpler than that. Add to this lol modes already done - like Harvester, A&D, Clan Arena, etc.

Basically - all of stuff is there already? :D

The devs went at it ass backwards. I do believe the server browser gives priority to ranked matches over unranked. And also doesn't the play now button work only for ranked matches? If you're new to the game, are you going to scroll through a list of servers that you most likely have no clue what the differences are. Or are you going to click the first populated/good ping server on the list? And there's also plenty of regulars that just don't bother with unranked matches to begin with.

The popularity of the new retard mode I believe had very little to with the actual gameplay changes, rather it was the fact that id stuck the real game mode into a dark corner that you had to already know was there in order to play it.

yes, but customization is not equal to lack of comp settings.

perfectly simple explanation: quake already has the comp scene and comp players. it lacks casuals. casuals dont give a fuck about comp settings. let them pay for hats, while you can enjoy your picmip 16 + green keel gameplay.

Before we go any further - QL would need new tech to even be able to go CSGO way with customization and such things. And that would need SHIT TON of money and manpower.

Not sure if arena shooter is capable of paying off such operation
http://www.steamcharts.com/app/282440

What does it matter if the other players cant see your custom items? If you've paid for them surely you being able to see them is enough.

epeen wont get any bigger if others cant see it tho.

What's hats? :s

TF2 hats.

Hm. I guess they cost monies?

They can randomly drop during play time (tho rarely), you can buy them from the shop for a few bucks, you can craft them with metal (a sort of TF2 currency which you obtain by scrapping weapons that also drop during play time), you can trade for them with other players or you can unbox them from crates (rare hats with particle effects, unusuals, are sometimes worth thousands of dollars, depending on the hat/effect combo).

Good video.

In a nutshell for Zenimax/id: "You need to spend money to make money." - Titus Maccius Plautus (254 – 184 BC)

same old from a new source basicly

inbefore id/sponge blames old quakers

Well, yeah. Apparently there are still some people that believe in QL / iD / Zanimax / whatever it is.
Tbh nothing bad about it, I used to have hope too.

His youtube channel seems very new.

Diabz did you force your brother to read your script about QL?

















JK

whoever wrote the script he's right. anyone with half a brain can see what they need to do to make ql somewhat successful (it's not too late).
it's just a pity that even collectively the entire staff at id doesn't amount to half a brain.

It's so fucking strange to read, not watch, your posts. Especially if they make sense.

random thought:
id should add some cs maps. maybe that would atrackt some cs players to try ql out. what do you guys think?

Quake players wouldn't go play CS if Valve introduced DM6 and ZTN to the competitive map pool, what makes you think CS players are any different?

Because CS game play is a less advanced version of quake so they would have scope to experience something new and exciting.

I doubt any seasoned quake player would get the same pay off.

I really don't think anyone is going to decide against trying Quake because there's no de_dust2.

It has NOTHING to do with the maps. Its the mechanics of the game.
Playing CS for any quaker is going backwards, at least a CS player would have the luxury of potential enlightenment.

id should add some cs maps. maybe that would atrackt some cs players to try ql out. what do you guys think?

That's exactly what I was saying, adding the maps wouldn't do shit.

I would definitely play more CS if it had quake maps. But just because it would be fun and interesting rather than because it would be competitively appropriate

someone made a ztn conversion for csgo, you can find it on steam workshop :D

theres a dust2 map someone made on reborn too. Its weird getting from CT spawn to T spawn in like 3 seconds

4th minute, he didnt say anything about loadouts.

hes right. free acces to everything + hats would make profit. we allwant "daaaaaaaaaaaaa" hitsound, and would pay a dollar or 2 for it.

selling the ability to spawn own server is also ok, but thats all. gamemodes and maps should be unlocked.

"daaaaaaaaaaa" or Raphas "YYEEEEAAAAAAHHHH" to be optional sounds to play when your opponent calls gg

i wouldnt give one single euro for skins/hats w/e

You're in the minority. As long as you are not forced to buy skins everything should be ok for people like you (and probably me).

I would pay for wolfcam-like weapon effects, for cool female announcer, maybe even for sound pack if I like it.
Not much, ofc, but I'd handle few more bucks added to my subscription for such stuff.

I'd pay for a custom rail sound/skin because I am the rail jezus

I think Reborn or Reflex is where shit might happen. I'm a bit worried 2gd has played too much dota though because last time I played reborn it was full of strange abilities that I'm afraid might be "too much" :/ We'll see.

I think the ship has sailed for QL, just enjoy what you have and don't worry about it. ID got all the ideas in the world to act on if they want to, so theres not much else to do.

CS 1.6 is still superior to CS:GO in every way (gameplay wise) but still it died, even if CS:GO is more shit all it took was a new game with the same idea to get tons of young blood to join. I dont think skins in cs1.6 would bring back that game either, you could always DL custom made skins to the game if you wanted. You need a NEW game. I guess people just usually dont buy games released the same year as they were born)

Crosshair in 1.6 is too big. Ded geme.

tl;dr kid doesn't realize QL doesn't work like any other game and can't have microtransactions, chat channels or ladders and automated tournaments. It's also not worth any commitment, as detailed analysis by sponge and others meticulously shows. Wastes time telling id what to do, not realizing he's wrong and id has heard this bullshit a hundred times over.

PS. Also, if we didn't have this old Quaker mentality, maybe we could go somewhere. But even kids with new youtube channels gravitate to it, so this is the biggest reason why we cannot and will never have nice things.

wat

What part of my post was not clear to you, brother? Should I elaborate on something?

For example

if we didn't have this old Quaker mentality

QL turned to poop with or without help of the community.
qlprism, qlranks other people can be jelly of that shit oh wait they have it by default :o
Every single community around game is shit if you look at certain angle.

I may or may not have sarcastically emulated some id developers or esreality posters in the original post, such as sponge or Yakumo. Therefor, your critique may or may not be very relevant to the discussion.

fuck me :(

I'm so sick of the 'just go back to q3' argument now

It's "go back to QW" now.

whats the argument for this current system? You cant have your own server hosted where u want. You cant have it with higher tickrate. You cant host custom maps.

inb4 this new shitty vo was actually done to sell better vo's in the near future

ow shit to late. this shit isnt that shit so i must sell this shit so other shit can be replaced by new shit...


ooooo yeeeaahhh.

ql2.0 in a nutshell

I can't imagine why the new players should subscribe, if they came for the dumbed down version of QL in the first place.
And since "classic" is unranked and therefore the servers won't fill up, the subscription loses alot of value for the veteran players too.

+ you cant even spawn DE servers currently etc. but it's not id's fault!!

Nah. Noobs don't know about all these Q3 mods, that made the game be over QL in terms of content. To them QL is a way improved version of Q3.

But you are right on that new players don't have a reason to subscribe. The game offers nothing to them, and to most of "us" really. The business model chosen and its implementation are just plain wrong in a 2014 steam game. That's the biggest flaw of QL, above everything we have said over the years.

Just make quake live open-source. Get it over with. I'd donate a whole paycheck for it. Think of all the mods that could be brought back. I want dedicated servers and lan parties with quake live. New maps New models limitless to our imagination. Do it! Do it now! Get in da choppa!

Why not simply play Quake 3 then?

because quake live is better than quake 3.

yea, at least before the big update.

In what?

Stairs!

was, in 2009. Now, no.

zzzzz stop complaining and start playing...

speaking of custom weapon skins and hats among other crap, according to sponge the engine doesn't support that and it'd require more work than to make matchmaking. (he didn't say the matchmaking part, it's my guess)

The engine is not any problem for custom content... I mean have you seen the mods?

i just said what sponge said. i don't have any technical idea about idtech3 and do not know.

i just said what sponge said.

don't do that :/

Just about everything is to hard or to much work for those guys.

If sponge said that then everyone might as well not expect ANY new features. I know sponge is a web developer, but come on, if you can't do anything with this simple old engine then you don't deserve the job.

edit: btw, different player model skins are already in the game and a 12 year old could copy/paste the code to work for guns and other models

as far as player model skins are concerned, then the skins would *HAVE* to be forced which means no more green robots.

it could be a small place on the model(maybe where it isn't green anyways), which shows something unique of the person.

how is that it's not supported? you can easily add custom content since q1. just place custom pk3 with needed resources. what's the problem?

i guess everyone would have to have the pk3s you have to have the weapon when they pick it up. i don't think that with idt3 you can just dynamically apply some "overlay" (stickers, custom skins) to your weapon.

on the other hand, i could be wrong. like i said, no clue how idt3 works.

Personally I don't really care if anyone else would see these effects. Actually I would even prefer if then didn't. So it would be enough just that I had that pk3 file if I bought it

personally, I don't really care either if someone sees what skin I have on the weapon when I pick it up. On the other hand it seems like a deal breaker for id.

the engine does support that very much: http://ws.q3df.org/models/?model=&page=23

He doesn't see any value in a subscription. That's totally fine : it's not for everyone. The game plays just fine without one. There's still value in it for those who want to spawn customized servers so I hope it doesn't go away though.

Basically the guy WANTS to play but not for something he's not interested into. He's totally right that QL could grab more money if it sold different things. Even though I doubt any of that stuff will interest me. So let's hope QL starts offering more products and that it won't affect us too much. Client-only stuff would be the easiest to do and I wouldn't be surprised if id went that way. Stuff that will affect other players (like hats) would be trickier and I very much doubt they are gonna invest enough for that to happen (unless it starts making a lot of money with the other stuff I guess). Also things like hats would pretty much mean we can kiss our forcemodels goodbye. Well, I'm sure they would disable it for all the servers id spawn themselves... we can only hope the option would be there to allow forcemodels in custom servers.

Quake has never needed to try as hard as modern games to keep players coming back. It's not about unlocking a new gun/skin/item or whatever, it's about increasing your skill and enjoying the gameplay.

A fun experiment would be to strip all the shit out of the modern shooters - COD, BF, Halo, etc and see how long people stayed playing if there was no unlocks, leveling or progression system. I don't think they would stay and the game would 'fail' according to todays standards because the actual gameplay is so boring and lame.

Sure iD could have done this and that to make it better, they could have done a whole bunch of awesome shit, but going back to Q3 is not the answer. This guy going on about paying 20 bucks for Q3 is just showing how he doesn't understand QL and what the money is needed for. In Q3 iD didn't need to fork out money to host servers, but for QL they are paying for server rentals in each of the countries listed. You also have website develpment, web server hosting and core server hosting to store all the data and run the stats in QL.

TLDR - Quake is the progression of yourself, not a virtual character in a game.

website develpment

It's so 2000, sigh

I agree with this except that I think an unlock system would keep more noobs around for longer and some of them would in turn get the itch when they start to get a little more competitive... then they'd be hooked and gg.

i think cod4 promod is still being played by many which basically plays he way you described, no unlocks no leveling. it's just not being backed by infinity wank/fagtivision for obvious reasons.

define many

Well i dont know about NA but over here you can always find full servers. And for example in Hungary where i am from there are still enough teams to get together for a lan (which is not the case for ql btw, the last attempt failed hard as far as i know).

Good points in the video. Unfortunately with a declining steam ql userbase, there isn't enough motivation for id to pour more money or people at this game. They're better off putting that money towards doom which can potentially make them 1000x as much.

The skill gap in this game is too big to overcome for newcomers and as we all see the matchmaking system is broken. You still see newcomers playing against veterans in their first game. id fails to understand this fact and are incapable of fixing it (sponge himself said fixing skillmatching is "too hard".

The best hope at this point is Reflex, which looks pretty sexy especially with all the great weapon animation effects. The map editor is especially enticing.

Thank much for the fakers in this. I've seen a few days ago a guy faking low skills in warm up against a beginner/medium player not strafe jumping at all and when the match started he played with all he got.

Very good analysis. I have said and brought up a lot of the same points, in person, to id software over a year ago and it fell on deaf ears and a pool of "can't" and "won't".

Quakecon 2013 id had a private meeting with some of the top players in the community asking how they could better Quake Live and if anyone had any ideas to help the failing business model. When I suggested that the game needed to be modeled more around the model of League and Dota and then asked if any of the id employees in the room have played League or Dota they all shook their heads and said no.

That was the exact moment I lost faith in the game I've enjoyed for the past 15 years. How do you not know anything about or have played the 2 biggest eSports titles in the world? How have you not played these games if you are COMPETING against them?

Crazy stuff.

I dont think any company that ever makes a game makes it with the intention of it being an esports or becoming one. Esports isn't even a solidified field of work yet. It's still quite volatile.

but regardless, I think id should have seen the potential and done something about, absolutely 100% agreed on that part. That's just poor business on id's end. Also, quakes not really competing with those 2 other games since they're of a different genre. but I think it was competing back when it was relevant (IE: quake got replaced with LoL for IEM). Now it isn't.

But we can't look at the past and bitch and moan about the what ifs, can really only hope for a quake 5 or the doom multiplayer to shine. This reflex shit looks trash and reborn won't be complete until 2050 so can only hope that a major corporation with large amounts of money invests in arena fps.

Untrue. They are completely competing. I know tons of Quake players that have moved over to Dota (me being one of them). Competitive gaming is competitive gaming.

heh.. it took until 2013 for you to realize that? =/ The decisions they were making and miss steps pre sponge era were just as bad/damaging to Quake. By the end of 2009 I realized qlive has no future with id in control. None. They're delusionally retarded =/ (cept Ttimo on the original team!!)

meh.

It goes back even farther than that. The last good id game was Q3 in 1999. Ever since then they've completely botched gameplay and chased Carmack's tech fetish (D3 with lights, QL game in a browser, Rage with megatexture, now VR with Oculus).

You're not really making a lot of sense there.

D3 and Rage didn't suck, they were just more singleplayer oriented.
The engine in both D3 and Rage attributes a lot to the feel of the game that was announced beforehand.
(D3 claustrophobic/threatning and Rage being about a vast wasteland after a fallout.

rage is a pile of shit, give me a break.

From Sept 2008-April 2011 I was completely inactive/removed from Quake/Gaming, and then again throughout all of 2012. So ya unfortunately i didn't realize it sooner.

Hmmm, I'm actually amazed that they invited players in and talked to them.

But probably like in focus... they only pay attention to those who agree with them, and not those who actually have a clue.

I can confirm what you said. Last week I told syncerror on chat to at least try out LoL, and he refuses to.

I mean, how can you implement a business model that's similar, if you have zero experience on that and don't have an expert on site. That means the developers are just guessing. BTW other musts for devs are iRacing and TF2.

How come the voice over edits turned out to be so similar to the one in Halo? Most probably they haven't played that game either and don't have any expert on the field. How come the "2.0" update gameplay changes are based on jumping and on loadouts, not realizing noobs don't jump and that it was going to break an entire main mod's gameplay? They don't know about game design and don't have anyone that does.

They like getting paid.

Yeah iRacing is a really great game. NOT. Paying 12 bucks for a track xD

stacy's mom, she knows what's going on

So legit. These corporate morons don't even get Quake will always have more potential than the shitty derivative shit they try to come up with or their other old franchises. They have the legendary name and perfect fundamental aesthetics of Q3 to make the objective superiority of the game and art of 1v1 fast paced FPS known all over the world and crush the other shitty games. But what can we possibly hope from then? Everyone is saying the new announcer SUCKS but Mr Syncerror likes it so it stays like that. It has been said no one is going to give a fuck about paying for the game, but they give you a piece of shit for free and unless you pay it's a pain in the ass to play. We said gore and ragdolls and better animations and unlockeable content with experience points or money like LoL is the way to go, but they wouldn't listen. We need matchmaking and we need the tournament mode from Q4 and we need TV advertisements and we need to make Quake seem something cool and trendy like LoL and the rest of vomitive mainstream esports games of today but they fail to do so. And everything goes the same way with everything else.

is quake live the only f2p shooter that has a subscription model? lol

planetside 2 got it aswell

but im pretty sure all content is available for the f2p-users too (except for a few skins perhaps), subscribing only gives you more xp so you can unlock new guns faster

Tells ID how to run a business , posts video's to youtube for a living?

Still better than posting comments on esr for a living. ;)

Also, unrelated - loses to bots in FFA match. :)

pop-filter, dawg.