That's great news!

".. This will force players to use the official, unmodified HUD files only.."

Why not just create a cmd that enable/disable the item timer part, instead of forcing a complete HUD?

as I understand it, if you allow custom huds, you allow item timers because it's impossible to prevent due to how powerful that lua stuff is

Yea alright, makes sense then. :)

I think they said its something to do with their scripting system, that if they allow players to use it there are ways for players to create timers. I'm not totally sure as I have no idea how their scripting system works and have been stealing other peoples huds

I'm hoping they will make a bunch of "official" huds without timers that people can choose from at least

Yes, and hopefully some inspiration from other players HUDs too

what would be most awesome is to create a set of official competition hud modules with customizable colors scaling etc, so stuff could still be personalised

<3 newborn

Hype! - http://phgp.tv/news/future-reflex-timers-solved/

I wouldn't really say solved... too hacky for that

plebs 1 - newborn 0

?
newborn 1000 - 1000 plebs

this announcement is mainly to avoid more shitstorms about timers than anything else : D

this must be the first thing reflex devs care about something that won't be done in the next couple of weeks.

"at some point in the future..." haha... oh well. This was triggered by quake players anyway, the more normal gamers were hyped about lua scripting for now.

Reflex Dev Model,, Try it - if it sucks, take it out or fix it....

$$$$$$ :O)

rip the dream

Judging from the recent Reflex cup, it seemed to me that even CS:GO has more depth than Reflex after this pacman feature. The only advantage of Reflex is to keep those players interested who have an attention span of a fly.

Yay, Logic wins !

except it wasn't logic, it was relentless whinging that did it. timer babies just wouldnt shut the fuck up about it. i think this (incredibly vague) announcement was just to make them stop shitting up the forums for a while

Whatever you want to believe.

Newborn basically said it directly on IRC. Its hilarious how you are now attempting to take the high ground after getting your way, while you spent the last month raging on the forum.

Hilarous is that, trying to make a point and criticize something is automatically considered raging and whining by those, who doesnt agree. - well, its sad actually.

And being happy of upcoming changes is taking high ground ? Ok.

Well duh, it's bound to happen when you fail to bring your point across or flat out refusing to share it with us. Instead of saying the people on the other side of the argument are bunch of kindergartners or religious fanatics, you could debate the subject reasonably and at the least say something substantial.

Ei jaksa täälä mitään part 2.

how about not having item timer at all but instead of that,
let items flash 3 sec before they actually spawns.
or some effect which is similar to muzzleflash, or sound maybe.

in this way it is more spectators/ noobs friendly + the game should look more exciting. (easier to understand how important items are.)
It may reduce item timing skill a bit but usually spectators/noobs friendly game will get more players/viewers.
It is just the balance between hardcore competitive and noob-friendly.

the same thing can be said for spawnrape.
it requires you to have the skill to do/avoid it and i think it is an amazing thing.
But do you think a noob will enjoy that? I dont think so.
a game which is easier to make comeback is usually more exciting to watch.

how do you make a game competitive when nobody plays/watches?
dont get me wrong i love quake and quake live duel system.

last night there was 0 players on NA duel server at 12am.
only 2 or 3 duel servers around 10pm every night.
i want you to think about that.

2-3 servers every night? In N fucking A? That's a pretty damn good deal considering Reflex's state and reputation. Yes, Reflex is not a triple-A game, stop treating it with expectations of one.

Not all indie arena shooters are as lucky as to get even one full server every night especially in NA. Players don't grow in fucking trees, if you want there to be more players you spam it around among your friends shamelessly and you get involved with the what little community there is, that's how it works with back alley games. Think about that.

you do understand game is not even release yet yes? or do you pretend is otherwise?

player will come when game is finished.

Even then it's not guaranteed, I doubt Reflex can beat QL in player count, but even half of QL is enough imo. You don't need a million players for a game to be playable and competitive. Small communities have their cons as well as pros.

I want reflex to have a big player count because that's the only way of providing a real competitive scene. In small communities you always get to play the same guys all the time. In duel you are most likely to know who is gonna win. In team modes the best players gather together and nobody beats them.

I have no interest in a competitive scene like that one, like it is right now. I cba using my time in practicing to try to be the best in a game that won't provide me the joy of a real professional gaming scene; traveling, meeting people, earning experiences, having your own sponsor and your own jersey, having haters, etc... but instead you will end up staring to the screen the better days of the week (usually saturday or sunday), waiting games to finish, looking for servers with good ping, dramas, small prizes, independent admins, etc...

i can have fun jumping in random servers and collecting air rockets tho, that's the game you described, not a competitive one. Even QL isn't competitive anymore with the player count it has. It pretty much died with the last dreamhack, today best players are asking for donations to go to the only LAN event of the year. No thanks. I had enough of all that pseudo competitive atmosphere where same guys always win and the community has all the effort organizing events and tournaments for themselves. I want the real deal or I won't join the competitive scene. For cheap competition i already have my local basketball league which is 10 times better than anything I lived in q3 or cpm.

Half of the QL player count? Newborn please, get your life back and stop developing reflex.

No offence, but those are some pretty spoiled demands right there. Basically what you're saying is that the presence of any kind of effort or inconvenience in establishing a tournament means the scene is dead?

If you're willing to give up as soon as your contribution or lack off there becomes of higher significance, I don't think there's ever going be a competitive arena shooter that comply to your requirements. Arena shooter communities have always been seeder heavy with low percentage of leeches.

First, most used argument involving reflex, it is an alpha game so the need of competitive scene is rather low. However I love the guys who are taking initiatives into cups but basically because that helps them getting their maps ready for competitive play, not because they are generating a competitive scene. For example, who assures you that the last results of cups would be the same if timers were off or we had another feature inside the game? The game is not finished!

---- Basically what you're saying is that the presence of any kind of effort or inconvenience in establishing a tournament means the scene is dead?

it means the scene is dying, think about it, nobody but the enthusiasts works on the scene, look at 125fps for ql as an example, what happened if that fellow russian stopped caring about the game? ID will never do anything apart from hosting a QL cup inside their LAN party because of tradition. There were organizations that dropped QL like zotac or faceit for obvious reasons but they were GREAT, that's the proper way of doing it. Check the scene in other games?

---- If you're willing to give up as soon as your contribution or lack off there becomes of higher significance, I don't think there's ever going be a competitive arena shooter that comply to your requirements.

I don't think there will be ever a competitive scene like i described for an arena shooter too, I am pretty aware of it. I was just saying i am not willing to train countless hours anymore to be somewhere near the top in this game if it remains with 70 players daily. It's pointless, I can enjoy the game as a casual too, I have no problem about that, I love playing this game winning or losing.

Keep in mind these games have never had marketing for what they are, a person joins the server and will be impossible for him to guess how to move or play in general, you cannot relate it to nothing. These games have never had a proper model or structure, a community manager, producers interested in watching the game grow, etc...

I made a tutorial map for new players and i spend time with them on servers showing the basics of movement and they indeed learn and like it. I kept changing and redesigning rooms so i make the learning stair that i've build more effective. I just want more people to enjoy this game, that's all. The first version I built was shit, changed it completely, 2nd version was better but seekax gave me an awesome feedback and i started from 0 again. I been working on the map for 2 years during my free time including the research behind it; you need to listen to the new players and their opinions, it is the non sticky post inside mapping forum with most views (5631). sometimes I think I must be one of the few guys around willing to focus on new players.

no offence taken, im here to discuss not to troll. hence the wall of text

I think the problem is pretty simple: to get a real competitive scene you need a lot of players, to get a lot of players the game requires marketing, good marketing requires a lot of money, to get a lot of money a lot of people need to buy the game. to get a lot of players the game requires marketing


Even if reflex turns out like the the best arena fps ever made, in all likelihood, there'll still be less than 100 people on at any given time

since the last update and the 50% discount the player peak went from something between 10 and 20 to something between 50 and 70

http://steamcharts.com/app/328070#1m

If you have a good accessible game people come back for sure.

game have 5 positive month. quake live have ever month negative but february. i think this is good sign for reflex.

hey newborn, any chance an analog clock alternative will make it in?

or even something like this?l; http://www.esreality.com/post/2548753/item-timing-apparatus/

what if there's a power-up/item that needs to be picked up to enable item timers? how about that?

what about before you pick an armor or mega you have to do a simple logarismic calculation? wouldnt that make the skill cap through the roof? Everyday I surprise myself with how awesome i am

It would be more awesome with grammar, punctuation, and correct spelling.......

math is universal, languages arent, 2muchwork

Ofcourse, I was just giving random ideas for the newbs. I personally support clocks but not item timers on screen. I am surprised something that was considered somewhat of a cheat, and accepted only for streams, made it's way into a legit game.

It's alright though, let the developers try things out, that's the best way to learn.

the vocal minority has finally won

i'm convinced that 90% of the timer whiners don't even play this game. nor even their glorified QL for that matter. they are people who don't actually play games, but just like to daydream/theorycraft about them and watch streams/vods. pathetic.

i don't really care either way about timers, but it's funny how the whiners' argument is basically that they want people to make more mistakes. if your play style largely hinges on your opponent mistiming items, you should rethink your approach to duel. also the idea that delaying items to deceive your opponent is somehow this brilliant strategy is just funny. reminds me of casual poker players who think the key to winning is bluffing every hand.

i don't really care either way about AIM-ASSISTand WALLHACKS, but it's funny how the whiners' argument is basically that they want people to make more mistakes. if your play style largely hinges on your opponent MISSING SHOTS, you should rethink your approach to duel. also the idea that OUTPOSITIONING your opponent is somehow this brilliant strategy is just funny. reminds me of casual poker players who think the key to winning is bluffing every hand.

if your play style largely hinges on your opponent MISSING SHOTS, you should rethink your approach to duel.

That's absolutely true doe just like banking on your enemy not having any item times or not reading you at all is a bad gameplan too

also, timing is about reading information from the game rather than the hud, imo half the reason this 'debate' is so retarded is that people get hung up on the actual timing rather than the skill behind it

Yup pretty spot on. Its all about getting the information i.e hearing/seeing a pickup. This important part of the metagame will be deleted.

I propose a system that shows you when an item will spawn only when you saw the last pickup. That way you dont need to calculate numbers and keep the depth in the metagame.

This important part of the metagame will be deleted.

A lot of people say this, but all I've seen so far is people pointing out a select number of situations change and conveniently forgetting about a host of situations that stay the exact same.

edit: personally I have no opinion yet

where's nemecel? lololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol

hes getting rdy to start the crusade for fullbright models

default hud is cancer

this is how a real hud looks like http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc...18909456D/

would be a good idea to disable the itemtimers, or have this piechart thing maybe, but forcing player to use the default...thats some bullshit

Thats even more shitty than default.If u want minimalistic shit,u probably will be able to get it in steam store later. Default HUD must be shinny and cool looking, for casual cs/cod noobs...

link to this hud?

www.imnotgraphicdesignerbutiknowwheniseeshit.pol.pl

well that was unexpected!!!

#newborngotnoballs

Err, no. I'd say that it took a real set of balls for newborn to even try adding item timers. They knew exactly what would happen, yet did it anyways.. That takes balls.

And,, no they are not bending over and saying, "The community wins". They are doing what every great inventor has done throughout history, R+D..... If it works or improves the game, keep it. If it doesn't, fix it or remove it.

'Instead of watching the clock to time items accurately, imagine you could see the item 'build up'. Try to visualize a transparant bucket, slowly filling up with water so you can see when it's full (and about to spawn). This would make (simple) maths during gameplay redundant, since you can visualize the item timings.'