Did you discuss the Q4 immortal's comeback ?

<3 thorin

T H R E S H
H
R
E
S
H

nice

The greatest deathmatch duel player of all time.

Interesting interview so far, didn't know he is critically acclaimed as the guy who "invented" WASD configuration.

i switched to invert cause of threshy
i either read about it on his quakebible or switched cause it was in his cfg. im pretty sure i wasn't the only one who copied him.


negative y axis master race

fazz?

maybe
fatal1ty for sure :>

do you play modern games where that isn't an option?

or... are you dissuaded from playing modern games where this isn't an option because of this?

i dont play on pc anymore..if reflex starts getting bigger, i might come back.
if a pc fps game didnt have invert, i probably wouldn't play it.
i've put in 7-10k hours in all 5 quake games, it'd be very hard to erase that muscle memory

funnily enough, i dont have a problem on console. i can switch back and forth easily.

the most anticipated comeback in the history of computer games

Invert is much more immersive and natural. I started with invert and I was quite good with it but friends bitched about having to switch settings in early quake days so I converted to non invert. Sadly, I never switched back and last time I tried I only lasted a couple weeks. Couldn't do it.

Maybe I'll try again.

Not a big deal tho.

It was the default in Dark Castle on Mac - an old platformer with mouse control for aiming.

Was also popular in many older games with two players per keyboard. Not exactly revolutionary in 1996.

The supreme +backer. 1-0 on e1m2 never forget

+back or +jail

I remember seeing the games of Thresh when I was a kid :) - he was 'god' :) and I remember him losing to Immortal on Q2DM3 and then coming back and smoking him on Ptrip like 40-0 :)
Thresh was a legend, a myth, an absolute superstar back in the day of FPS duel.
I remember first seeing his demos and watching how he over whelmed opponents with control and awesome aim - his reactions and his flick rails in Q2 were mind blowing to watch for the first time.
This is 'the best' interview so far :)

i remember wanting to play the pgl so badly cause of him.
once i got a good enough pc, the pgl was dead and replaced by the gay cpl(cyberathlete lol) :/
bring back the pgl, i'll watch instead of compete

Yeah :D I used to play Street Fighter 2 and wanted to compete and be the best player in the world - then I felt things switch to Doom and then Quake and then Quake 2 and if you wanted to be the best games player in the world 'this' is where you had to be, at the top of the current FPS duel. Thresh was that player, he was the unbeatable duel deathmatch player in Doom, Quake and Quake 2. For me, during his reign, he was the best computer games player on earth.

Very nice. Really enjoyed.

was angel munoz brought up at all? i cant watch the video until tomorrow(no sound here)

On November 3rd, he published an article in the LA Times called: The Cutting Edge, and in it he described me as "the Don King of online gaming." I was furious and called him up right away. This dialog is based on my personal notes and my recollection of that conversation:

Greg - I am sorry I never meant to insult you.
Me - Why the hell did you call me that?
Greg - Because I was told that you were publicly called that.
Me - Why would someone say that?
Greg - Dunno, but I would not view it as an insult if I were you.
Me - What do you mean? Don King is not an example of honesty and professionalism, who the hell told you I was called that?
Greg - A player at the PGL? (soft voice)
Me - Which player? I want to know!
Greg - You know who....(softer voice)
Me - No, I don't! Who?
Greg - I can't say (long pause) uh... it was their famous player. You can surely figure it out.
Me - I see... thank you, good bye.

thresh trolled the cpl?

It started on March 12, 1998 and my life has never been quite the same. BitchX, the anonymous publisher of a site called Gaming Insider, hosted by PlanetQuake, (a community Quake site that has declined to report on the CPL events, while giving the PGL extensive coverage) published the following remarks about me:

"the decidedly unsavory Angel Munoz"
"swayed by a huckster like Munoz"

Then on June 6, 1998 "she" referred to me as "the Pimp."

"Thresh has taken it upon himself to launch a marketing strategy against Angel Munoz of the CPL. Don't get me wrong here, the CPL certainly has its own set of problems, but to me when I go to the PGL site and read an editorial by a Dennis Fong who pretends not be affiliated with Death Row and Gamer's Extreme and the PGL at the same time and calls Angel Munoz a "pimp" while laying down his own load of bias, I get depressed and remember the Dennis Fong of old, playing in T3 like the rest and having a good time."

http://www.loonygames.com/content/1.13/guest/

22:00 for the Angel talk.

jeez people still remember angel?

"Angel, where's my money??"

--every cpl tournament winner ever

Can't recall even one positive thing about that guy. He probably destroyed Quake single-handedly.

Great interview.

Very cool only 8 mins in but can't stay up anymore. Will watch tomorrow.

I think few things about thresh comments, not quite sit right for me.

Those old pac man guys were kind of the first pro gamers if you think about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1cr87XdEzU

Also street fighter II which had and still has a big tourney scene in arcades before/during/after id and doom/quake there was Tomo Ohira.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSCXm9ef1K4

I heard about him in the UK, and that was 91-92. I really wanted to play him, and from listening to his comments he made then, he obviously knew his stuff and was ahead of the game as he was the first person I ever heard about things like Standing fierce punch into flash kick, so I believe the hype from him.

I guess people always remember the first and thresh seems to have that accolade for FPS games.

Billy Mitchell -PACMAN (retro arcade) (early 80's)
Tomo Ohira Street Fighter II (street fighter II) (early 90's)
Thresh - DOOM/QUAKE (fps) (early 90's)

Thats Street Fightet II, not Steet Fighter.

Aye, kinda assumed everyone would know, but changed anyway.

I once played SF2 in the arcade for 6 hours on a quarter. Pretty sure I was #1 in the world that day.

I once travelled 200 miles to london when i was 14 to play the best, and had such a good time, I sold my bus ticket and left myself stranded in london.

That's 'dedication'.

Really great interview.
Actually found the part funny where Thresh asked Thorin if he knew Zero4, cause Thresh said he thinks Zero4 was like super good or whatever back then...

I think he kinda lost contact to Zero4, otherwise he would know, that every quake player is aware of who Zero4 is nowadays...eh.

He's that guy that doesn't like minorities right?

time?

Toward the end.

1:19:44 I think

Thresh vs Highroller... where it all started for me.

lmao thresh.cfg is included in q2. Imagine if tox.cfg was included in ql after q4 lololololoollo

//Dennis "Thresh" Fong's Quake II Config
//November 26, 1997
//Tip of the game: Don't use a config that you aren't comfortable with.

never4get

i always thought it came with some version of osp. because i found some cfg file named after him.

Nice!

Somehow the timeline doesnt really add up. He said, that they didnt play Quake for half a year before the match against Clan 9 because PGL had Q2 and he had to prepare for it.

Later he says he skipped season 2 because he had a lot of business stuff to do and was still playing quake

DR vs C9 was on Aug 7th, 1998 (it was announced in May)
PGL Season 2 was in May/98
PGL Season 3 was in Nov/98

He meant he hadn't played q1 for half a year cus he was preparing for q2.

Thats what I mean. He said, he didn't participate in Season 2 because he still played Quake 1 at that time. That was in May. The game against C9 was beginning of August. That is 3 months max.

He makes conflicting statements too. Like for instance he says how he doesn't have a lot of time to practice or they moved on to Q2, etc then says he never played much anyways 1-2 hours a day. He said he pulled an all nighter to get back into Q2 shape to play Immortal again. That's Fatality level hours. It is quite hard to actually know the truth. He obviously was in the office taking hours to do a gaming interview now so why couldn't he take hours a day back then to play Quake? Often being the boss can give you more free hours than regular workers. I think he was way more dedicated and put in lots more hours/practice than he admits.

He is still a legend and one of the greatest of all times but I think he sorta fudges some when he gets interviewed and no one can really challenge him on it since it was ages ago. He can easily re-write his own history now. Hell even remembering that far back can be tough let alone getting all the facts right.

What I learned most from this interview was how close knit some of the scene was. I didn't know all those guys played each other so much back then. They were pretty much an exclusive practice club it sounds like it.

I'm guessing right before tournaments he might've taken a few more hours per day. It's not all that strange though, I think I remember Makaveli saying here on ESR that he didnt play more than 1-2 hours per day either, unless it was an upcoming tournament.

Can you honestly say that you could remember dates and events from 17 years ago on the fly? :)

Looking at Thresh's face expression when asked about PGL season 2 you can totally see that he was having trouble remembering what exactly was going on back then.


I think he was talking about his team not playing Q1 for a while and not just himself. Perhaps his team mates haven't played Q1 ever since Q2 came out.

What bugged me about this, is that he is talking with so much certainty. I mean, yes, yes, he is the god of quake and so on and so forth. That when he is talking about when he won, he talks about how much of a higher level then the others he was playing on. And then when he lost, he is talking it down. He hasn't played for ages, he didnt take it seriously and so on.

He opened the interview with how he hated to lose and then there is this game: USA vs EU. NetQuake vs Quakeworld. This was a superlative in itself. And he sees it only like a fun trip to Sweden. Of course he didnt lose any game during the warm ups, but then suddenly during the real game everything was different.

It just feels to me, that after being told for 2 decades what an incredible almost super human player he is, he has started to believe it a little bit too much himself and is kind of exagerating.

He wants it both ways. Reminds me of Fatality.

Another statement I caught was when they were talking about Rocket Arena I believe. At first his immediate reaction was something like "I never lost to them", then it quickly became "I won more than I lost" or "I won 60%". It is pretty obvious it has been so long he can barely remember and often when you can't remember clearly you remember what you want.

And then when he lost, he is talking it down. He hasn't played for ages, he didnt take it seriously and so on.

Sounds like normal quake player reaction to me :)

He's talking about it from a competetive point of view. I remember watching the demos back then and wondering why the supposedly best american team wouldn't make these simple jumps across the gaps on dm3. Nine did pull a bit of a douchebag move, there's no denying that.

He WAS far ahead of his competition though, especially in quake 2. Makaveli and immortal were fantastic players (makaveli even beating shub 3-0 in games) and somehow Thresh seemed to spank them pretty good. Makaveli even said here on ESR before that Thresh, in practice duels, beat them both in duels on q2dm1 using the grenade launcher only.

It's because he's literally full of shit. His ego is gigantic and really he's just lucky he had a sick ass LAN like internet connection playing on a game that is heavily skewed towards connection quality (Netquake).

He also said you couldn't do the Red Armor jump on DM3 in NQ. Wrong. You could.

He constantly avoided playing against hard players outside of his friends who he claims never beat him, except you know, when they did - in tourneys.

It was all just marketing bullshit.

He also talked about the players in the RA tournament being the best there were. LOL ok.

It was a United States only 1v1 tourney that decided who would participate via Open FFA matches that did not segregate HPB and LPB players. There was also 0 way to confirm who was actually playing and as a result Thresh played for Pookie to get her not very skilled ass into the 1v1 tourney making it even easier.

He ran far far far far away from all the great QW players in duels.

I doubt very highly he won every duel he played like he claimed in the interview during the Clan 9 vs DR matches.

For the record EG raped the fuck out of DR repeeatedly with our best lineups without even breaking a mother fucking sweat in QW. And we won many in NQ despite having garbage pings and not playing in the same room like DR used to typically.

But hey, whatever right? Better to sell the narrative that makes you a lot of cash. Almost everything he did was image protection.

He also had a huge head start having that home lan.

He basically had every single advantage humanly imaginable in an era where some of these advantages were quite rare. And they were always hugely beneficial.

While this all sounds negative, there is no doubt he was one of the greatest of the era. But there is room for huge amounts of doubt that he was definitively the best of the era.

The guys from this era have all had to compete on much more even playing fields to achieve what they did.

-eg.monster

Confirming its very possible to make the RA jump in NQ. I just loaded up dos quake (quake.exe) and made it first try with the default keys (mouse2=fwd, ,=strafeleft, .=straferight). It does require a circlejump movement though.

The best = the one that wins the actual tournaments. Simple as that. No, it is not an achievement to win online friendlies, more so in different gametypes than the one in discussion (duel) and with different rulesets (QW).

Thresh didn't nitpick in which tournaments and games to participate in based on which other players could be competing (fatality did that across all his career). Thresh just showed up to everything worth attending to, won every single relevant tournament of the time and then his real life caught up.

It's understandable that you think he had an unfair advantage, since Thresh had superb playing conditions at home and even family backup. However, advantages and disadvantages are just a fact of life, as in every single activity or profession some people have distinct advantages over the rest; so it is what it is really, a part of the game of life. Heck, in pretty much every human activity those that had the most opportunities (if not better genetics even) are those that are the very best at their respective fields. At the end of the day in competitions of whatever kind what matters is the actual result, who wins and who loses, not who had the most chances.

In the end it comes down to you stating that he wasn't undoubtedly the best of his era and that he avoided facing some players. Then,
1) Who do you nominate as the best? Once again, the only basis of comparison should be which live tournaments your player won.
2) Which specific (worth attending to) tournaments did Thresh 'dodge'?

I was there for all of it. Very close to it. Nothing I said was inaccurate. He might have been the best of that era. But there's simply no real way to know for sure and his claims that all the best players definitively played in the tourneys he was in is literal bullshit, as I clearly pointed out.

Yeah, credit to him. I really have nothing against him. He has done a lot and deserves everything he has accomplished. But the situation back in those days was so dramatically different in terms of who could even compete just because of connection issues or location.

It was not easy to just get up and take a computer to a tournament during the CRT era for example, so automatically anyone close to these tournaments had the likely advantage of. Nor were computer rental places common.

He dodged friendly games his entire online career. That's just how he played. He wouldn't play QW. Despite the best players playing QW.

He won some tournaments that were heavily skewed in his favor (RA especially).

The best player of that era that I saw play was Drakken. But, like you said - real life caught up to him. And because many Q1 players hated Q2 and never bothered with it he didn't either. Then he got a good job and I think a girl pregnant and he never played again.

I don't really have too many issues with anyone calling him the best of the era, although I disagree.

What I do take a lot of issue with though, is all of his bullshit claims that he made about the tournaments he played in. I highlighted more than a few in the post above.

He's a really strong example of right place right time when these competitions were just getting going and the barriers to entry were a lot greater just due to technology and cost.

Players from this era that win consistently have had to do it on much more equal playing fields and they impress me more in the grand scheme.

Thresh is certainly not the GOAT. You want to call him the GOE (his era) fine. Anything past that is pretty baseless though.

He claims he never lost to his friends but then loses to them at a tournament all of a sudden? Is that really believable? Because it's not to me.

He's a brilliant businessman. He knows how to protect his image well, that's for sure.

That's just how he played. He wouldn't play QW. Despite the best players playing QW.

Well, tbh, QW is like a completely different game. It's like saying he wouldn't play UT eventho the best players are there.

Yeah the name is there and weapons are the same.. but the movement completely changes the dynamic of the game. His play style probably wouldn't work in QW.

Today Netquake and QW are very different games, mainly due to bunnyjumping. However, look at some demos from that time (around 1999?) and you will realise there was no real difference with regards to the movement as people still hadn't figured out how to use it.

I remember watching the demos on dm3 though where I was wondering why, deathrow, supposedly the best team in the world couldnt make the jump over the "gaps" on dm3 in the quad area. He's not just making it all up.

At that time they weren't actually that different. Bunny hopping didn't come around and become popular until well into the days of Q2.

fatal1ty>thresh confirmed

OT question tho but, HOW THE FUCK DID EVIL GENIUSES BECAME A COUNTER STRIKE CLAN FU GUYS

Thers also EG in dota and even LoL I believe. They go where the money is

Now that I think about it, I'm liking this conversation a lot :3, especially the different perspectives and memories.

You'll like this then, too. I know Thresh from EFnet IRC, back then we were all in #doom and #deathmatch.. Thresh has always had a big ego and was very cagey about playing people under circumstances that didn't favor him. A lot of good players were midwest based at the time, in doom and doom2, NoSkill, Tower and Timinator, later Entropy, Rix and Gollum in NQ. Everyone played the crap out of each other over here but Thresh would barely play anyone in the channels (even though he was idling and active in them constantly), I remember NoSkill got to play him in dialup Doom2 and he barely lost and wanted to play more but Thresh didn't want to (ever again).

In the early NQ days when things got a lot more active and the internet got more popular, we all suspected that Thresh would play but alias as his brother, Bryant.. who was suspiciously very good and would play on some low ping server and leave if he lost. It was really easy to alias back then, but I don't remember seeing Bryant really play anyone in doom/doom2 and certainly not NQ but he was always the guy you'd play from DeathRow if you wanted a try-out or were talking some smack or whatever.

As for Red Annihilation, where Thresh won that Ferrari, I'm afraid monster is right and Thorin was on the right track about Thresh being really really hard to deal with regard to agreeing to terms or whatever. Thorin doesn't know the competitive history of NQ that well so I can excuse him for not knowing that everyone knew about timing armors, timing weapons, all the basic strat was there by the time that tourney came around. Nobody, however, played fucking E1M2 anymore, it was all Dm2, Dm4 and Dm6.. those were the duel maps and that was that, it was really weird and considered oldschool and kind of a joke to duel on E1M2. IT'd be like saying in a modern QL tourney you wanted to play on Qdm2 or some shit, only worse because the map isn't even designed for duel. Like DM12 is a better example.

Yet at RA, from Entropy's mouth to my ears, Thresh refused to just play one of the DM maps and wanted some weird ass maps in the pool and just wouldn't let it go. They literally had to negotiate for over an hour and finally the map (and some others) were allowed to be in the pool, and then somehow it got chosen. So here's Entropy, who was extremely good at DM6 and DM2 and kind of known as being the top dog of duel on the east/central side of the country, vs Thresh who was known to be good on DM6 and especially DM2, playing each other on some joke map. So of course Entropy lost, he barely had played the map. That's that story, not that Thresh was some tactical genius way ahead of his time, but he just bitched and cried until that map got picked. Nobody in the scene wanted to see them play E1 fucking M2, it was just a complete joke of a map choice, and everyone knows that.

Not trying to smear Thresh here but it just makes me laugh seeing an interview like this where he gets to paint himself in this wonder boy genius of FPS light, when the reality is, anyone who played back then thought he was a sketchy crybaby (specifically for that RA stunt), even if he was a really good player.

-rdwilson

Thanks. When watching the VOD of that match I always found weird how that map ended up being picked.

Yeah, I was shocked once I finally got to play NQ LPB. I always knew it was an advantage but it is so huge there was literally no point playing HPB (which is what most players were). As a HPB I was good but nothing special but as a LPB I immediately was challenging so called "greats". Even in QW there were many players which had significant advantages because of ping. It wasn't until a few years back that QW finally got nearly full unlagged style netcode.

It is hard not to be a bit bitter about how NQ/QW/Q1 ended up in NA. The scene was split in NA between NQ/QW then fragmented over to Q2 and Q3 while in EU QW kept getting stronger and stronger. To this day there is still a NQ/QW split in NA that exists. If the whole NA Q1 scene had supported QW I think there was a good chance it could have been as large as the EU scene.

Awesome.

So, great interview, and I enjoyed it a lot. Still, I couldn't help but feel sad at the end of it. Quake is so dead Thresh just plays League with his mates, doesn't know rapha, and doesn't even know that every Quake player knows Zero4...

:(

Yep... Feeling nostalgic of how big quake was and how unpopular it has become :-(

sujoy plays moba as well

why did you have to tell me :(

what a waste of thunder fingers

"doesn't know rapha, and doesn't even know that every Quake player knows Zero4..."

That's what he claims, and it's bullshit :-)

zero comprehension

why would he claim that if it' wasn't true

Jealousy, wanting not to be compared, pride, ego, etc

I don't think there's a way in which he gains a lot by not knowing them. Do you think pele could possibly think that he would gain something by denying following football?

Pele was an amazing player, his rocket was unforguetable but i didnt know he was playing football as well

apparently you don't follow much sports, because this is a common behaviour from old champions toward new rising stars

Thresh was a FPS legend in my time. He protected his reputation very carefully.

A sponsor paid him to fly to the UK to play a duel show match against the winner of the Q2 FFA competition - which was unr.Billox. Thresh refused to duel Billox on any other map except Edge and beat him really easily to -1 frag. Billox did not play duel at the time.

In short:
-Thresh won John Carmack's Ferarri as a prize for winning the duel tournament. He sold it.
- Became Gaming public Speaker at various events
- Started Xfire (a gaming messenging service) with his brother/cousin and sold it to Microsoft for $120M

So i guess he is happily retired now at what..45?

he's 38

120m? Nice haul..

P.S. apparently he sold it for $102m to Viacom, but he was only co-founder, so i suppose he didnt get all of the 100m, and the venture capital firm who financed it proably took a good chunk too. Should be plenty left tho..

He could save and ressurect quake or any game with that money... :)

It almost looked like he was choking up a little when thorin was telling him about the lineage of thresh disciples and rapha.

Great interview as always. Keep em coming

Haha exactly what I thought, it was definitely a moment to choke up for though. All these years have passed and the spirit of Thresh still lives on.

Dahang watched, and also choked!!!!


C H O K E
H
O
K
E

His constant hand gesturing never fails to annoy me.

also listen carefully 46:32

Awsome! I bet he would enjoy watching some rapha games ))

Any YT videos of his games (Ferrari ones especially) ???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYD-nKa1x2Y

First demo I ever watched :) back in 97 :D

funny comments on that vid :) aimbot theory

yeah, youtube commenters are retards

doesn't look like i am watching a legend tho

your PoV is skewed by people who stood on the shoulders of thresh. If had been around at the time and you felt how nobody could pull what he did off, you'd feel the weight of what he did.

yeah absolutely, I never said otherwise.

it's just that I see quakeworld players nowadays and I see how much the gameplay has evolved that it makes me feel a bit bitter about it not being as popular as in the Thresh era because players are much better in the present IMO. And nobody gives a shit about them : (

No disrespect to him, he was smart enough to use his fame at the moment.

yeah, that is understandable

Same thing happens watching early q3 duels or Fatal1ty matches... you can't help but notice how the levels have raised immensely, and those players were at the top due to being pioneers more than for being top in absolute terms. That's why Fatal1ty quickly retired and never attempted a comeback in ql, he would have been stomped by people we never heard of.

but that's normal in every sport.

Thats not completly true. You have to grasp the fact that every pioneer has to INVENT everything.

Take a look at skateboarding.

Every generation IS NOT better then the last, altough they do more advanced tricks every year. That doesnt mean they are better.

And for a fact, fatal1ty was actually quite great in FPS. Dont fool yourself into thinking otherwise.

All of this is true, and nothing of this change the fact that thresh and fatal1ty level of playing is orders of magnitude behind what it is today.

And yes, it does mean new generations are better, if they are better. Just like Federer, Nadal are better than Borg (overall). The level of competitiveness has raised immensely and keeps doing so, between 50 years sport analysts will be looking at the federers and then nadals of our times and say "how cute they was" compared to the ones of the future.

Meanwhile we, old farts that watched them live, we'll find some excuse as to why they must be the strongest ever.

I think you're underestimating fatal1ty. This guy was playing Quake4 in 2006, where he actually took a few maps from toxjq. It was a period where even players like av3k and cypher competed.

I don't think it's possible to underestimate Fatal1ty's level, with all due respect.

Fatal1ty was still playing, but not winning. Cypher and av3k were like 16 y.o. at the time

Cypher and av3k being 16 isn't really an excuse, as av3k was winning stuff.

On the contrary, because they were at the beginning of their careers and very green

Still, av3k managed to beat toxjq, so he was at a high level (arguably the highest) of skill at that point.

When a younger rising star, in any field, scores his/her first big achievement, they're never considered fully peaked already

I didn't say he peaked at that moment.

Also that's nonsense, if that match turned out to be av3k's only high placing achievement, then surely that was exactly when he peaked.

You said he was arguably at his highest skill level, so yes, you said he was at his peak.

And yes it's nonsense, because it didn't turn out to be av3k's only high placing achievement.

Surely one could achieve their biggest feat yet, while not at a peak level of skill.

Theorically it's possible, but it wasn't the case

It is not possible to compare players between generations in absolute terms. You need to compare players relative to their impact at the time, like people compare in real sports. Thats why we have this kind of discussion in sports and gaming.

That would be an awesome show match - Thresh vs Immortal on Quake 2 :) or Thresh vs Entropy on Q1.

Thresh vs Entropy on Q1 <---------- $$$

found it really interesting when Thorin pointed out that there is a lineage between Thresh - Makaveli - Zero4 and Rapha

i guess it's true that if you want to be the best, you have to learn from the best...

Definitely intriguing, will Zorack be the next padawan? Let's just hope

Thanks, Thorin, great work. :)

This is the first one I've watched all the way through and thought it was great, really good interview. What a legend Thresh is and I'm glad he's still sort of involved in it all.

Loved hearing about the early days, I've been following quake from around 96/97 and remember reading about the PGL in some UK PC mags back in the day. It was articles like those and news about the upcoming quakeworld which really got me hooked on quake, before even owning a PC.

I read on the wiki that "Strafe-jumping started as a bug in the Quake code base, but it was later decided to keep it intact" so it must have been known in q2 beginning but on Thresh's q2 videos he is just walking around, why? Can someone explain when exactly strafe jumping was discovered and when exactly it became a standard way of moving around?

My guess is that, just as thresh mentioned about control, people simply didn't know to use/abuse it, and although it might seem apparent to most (if not all) quake players now, it just wasn't known about back then

I think it was only in quake 3 that carmack was thinking of removing the possibility of strafe jumping, not in any previous quake versions (http://www.gamers.org/pub/archives/plans/john...1999-06-05)

Yes in Q3 Test Carmack limited strafe jumping to 2 (or 3 I can't remember) hops per move. There was a demo of 9.Xenon at the time in Q3 test with this limit (after moving from Q1 with no limit) so it was a bit interesting to see.

The strafe jumping limit was removed when Quake 3 was released.

Excellent interview. I enjoyed it.

Where did you dig up that gaming fossil by the way? He sounds old. Didn't know guys like that were still around ;)

Quake boss, company boss, interview boss.

I kinda wish (although maybe it's not a fair question) Thorin could have asked whether Thresh could do something to help the future of Quake, let's face it he is in a very financial and influential position. I'd also like to know why he plays League every night, surely a true Quake player like himself must get the itch to hit some rails and fire some rockets?

But still a very awesome interview. Thresh was always a gaming hero for me, time to watch some demos :)

Games of the Quake franchise have been played by millions of people, maybe tens of millions even. Today there's about 3,000 players left, with a big portion of them being players that started in QL (noobs). So, your premise of that he should have a "Quake itch" is not necessarilly correct, as millions of people do not have it.

Since I've playing since Thresh's times I think I can answer the question. For casual play LoL with friends is more fun to play than any Quake (1), plus it gives you a way bigger 'itch' (2).

For one, lets say you've been working since 9am and you get home at 9pm (like a proper business man). Do you want to spend your free time alone doing math (to calculate item respawns), or would you rather have a laugh with your friends? Even the remaining 'pro' players only play Quake for Quakecon, then they drop the game for a whole year.

For second, Quake is tiresome to play, both on the short and the long run. On the other hand, playing LoL is not physically nor mentally demanding. Also it can be played and be enjoyed on a toaster, unlike Quake as it requires more dedication (needs a 120hz monitor and a GPU that has DVI stuff, a perfectly stable internet connection, a specific mouse and so on)

Personally, I haven't really touched any Quake in years (well except the QL Steam beta last week). Heck, it's been over a decade without playing my home game of sorts, Q2. I do play either Rocket League or League of Legends almost every day, and I don't have any sort of Quake itch.

Meh, people react to itches when they have the means to. Everyone gets an itch to play football when watching it, but then few actually do, because for many it isn't convenient.

QL is dead and shit. That's why when you have an itch, you ignore it.

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=712177
ZeRo4:
"... I noticed in every game prior to this, Quake & Quake2, everybody acquired their own strategy that stemmed from a basic strategy. The core of this strategy came from a player named Thresh. Even while playing quake3, I studied his demos mostly while also viewing Immortal's and Makavelis's demos. I learned a great deal from all three of these players especially Thresh. "

I was an active player starting in quake2 in NA west coast. What was interesting about Thresh is that he was like a ghost. I think this added to his mystic or legend. Everyone had heard of him, but no one would ever see him play. I played a ton of q2 and could usually pick out players even if they were aliased as I knew all of their tendencies. I knew just about every player or had played just about every player on the west coast including a|method, forsaken, revelation, exodus, usurper, sniper, boss, uv-sol, angelstorm, k9-gloucester, mastakilla, immortal, makaveli, lordvader.... and the list goes on. Not once did i ever see Thresh or someone playing who may have been Thresh.

So the legend was partially there in that all these players are playing non-stop and slowly improving over time. They become some of the best players and are constantly improving strategies and aim and learning all of these trick jumps that took some time to learn. Then imagine it's tournament time, and Thresh comes out of nowhere and beats everyone easily. It's like what? Where did this guy come from? Someone like makaveli would be playing every night 2-5 hours and yet someone i'd never seen on a server would come beat everyone. I had to go to the season 3 PGL finals to see Thresh play in person. I stood behind him watching DR win the netquake TDM championship and i watched him beat immy in q2 duel. I'd never seen Thresh play duel in q2, but even though he was going against the great immortal, we all just knew Thresh would win because of his legend. I enjoyed the interview as i see now he was playing the best players behind the scenes. Thresh was innovative and he was one of the first players i had seen who would jump from the MH room ledge towards the lower level YA and take 2 damage on purpose so that he can pick up the YA. Most would use it as bait to draw out their opponent. In q2 the armor system was different in that it did not count down so it wasn't inane to just to pick up every armor like it is in quake3/live. Thresh also did not use railgun much at all. His aim with it was questionable, so it was cool to hear his opinion on that and how he thought rockets helped control the map better and get kills. Thresh doesn't mention it but he was also heavy chaingun especially on q2dm1 in the middle area. While most players would sit on the ledge and rail, he would often charge down with CG and get the kill.

I think Thresh also played very briefly in the q3 kickoff tourney in NA called Teamplay.net q3 kickoff tourney under an alias clan (all DR players) called Clan GUMP. Their team surprised everyone in that they were so good for unknowns. I forget which player was allegedly Thresh, but the team that played him remarked at how ridiculous his rocket aim was.

Going back to q2, i can attest that of all the players i played in duel, makaveli was the best tactician. Makaveli also was one of the best dodgers i'd ever played which i believe is also something he partially learned from Thresh. Playing someone like angelstorm aka waterboy and he would try to win like 40-8 with a crazy aggressive style. Makaveli would be more pleased winning like 16-0 by controlling every aspect of the map. So i can see the correlation in what Thresh is saying about the controlling style being passed on to makaveli. Speaking of makaveli, maybe he can confirm this, but i had heard a legend of thresh beating him in duel once in q2 using GL only.

Anyways, just saw the video post and wanted to reminisce on some old memories. Thresh definitely deserves the spotlight as he truly is one of the greats of quake.

Can't plus you I assume because you just registered but this is the best comment in the thread. Someone from the era actually providing detail and insight.

Thresh had a lot of advantages and he used them to make himself even better. I can't imagine other players being able to get the best to play privately with them for hundreds of practice games.

He beat not just me, but also immortal on Q2DM1 with GL only. Not joking.

Makaveli, Please may I trouble you for a few questions..

1. what was your win/loss ratio between you and shub when he stayed with you in america?

2. As you played both in your prime, how would you rate shub vs thresh ?

3. Do you think Thresh, shub and yourself would have been stronger q2 players than purri et all if you carried on playing into late q2 era?

thank you kindly

shub-nigga. best name ever, yo - jamalz

As for question #1. I've seen him written on ESR before that out of about 20 games or so it was extremely close to the point that neither won more than 1-2 games in a row.

Great interview. Its funny how even the best quake players eventually transfer to other shitty games like lol. For few past years i played mostly console games but from time to time i feel the need to play something fast paced. Its like you quit smoking weed or cigs and after some years you still do it sometimes. I always go back to cpm or other quakes for some months and it will stay thay way. I guess its the need for speed :D.

Reflections with ZeRo4! Do it, Thorin!

reflections with ic-Toxic is the only reflections worth doing till it's done

z4 and tox are good suggestions.

I wonder what Lexer and Daler are up to nowadays...

Fazz & Rapha ...

I thought of the Demo with commentary while you both on the stream, so if you did not know it watch it :)

Thresh vs Entropy @ Red Annihilation 1997

Luckily he said 'superhealth' within the first 10 seconds so I could stop watching.

Double luckily there's plenty more videos on Youtube of this match in better quality and without commentary.

I don't know if this is the demo commentary or a live one ...

There you have it :)

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheAGPTour/search?query=Thresh

I'm guessing he's a q2 player since it was called superhealth in q2?