HAHAHA i know why you say that, its cuz r*****y is thinking everyong is focusing him lately, tbh he is raging a lot latelty he was never doing that in the past.

This is a wider issue affecting a LOT of players...its not player specific.. It needs to be addressed.

No it's not affecting A LOT of players, also it doesn't NEED to be adressed, at least not for usual format which is 4v4+ as filo said below the higher ranked players have to find a way to play, this is problematic only when its 3v3. At 4v4 you can already start to play brain game much easier.

e: ps: reasonable solution could be making this option a server setting which would be forced either on (leaving the choice to active or not target id, not team mates ofc) or off. From a dev POV the question should be, does it add more to the depth of the game or less? I think this is debatable, especialy for other game modes. Then would you disable frag message with players id (not for specs obv) ?

Perhaps i should have said I suspect its a LOT. Personally I find the problem is exacerbated by larger team sizes rather than mitigated, as you have a much greater chance of running into a gang with larger teams. At present you can make lots of changes to server setting like weapons and armour for example, but not many admins implement them as players like to play on standard settings. The options I propose would not break CA they would simply allow a small number of servers to offer an alternative version of the game. If this mode became popular then great if not then it does'nt really matter... nothing ventured nothing gained. I just feel that after many years of playing this game these 2 simple changes could make a massive difference to the playing experience. Even if names were preserved and Insta-Spawn was introduced (as an option like in CPMA of old) then this in itself would defeat the Bridge/Top/Grinder lets gang him paradigm.

You never mentioned anything about Insta-Spawn in your post, what do you think about it?

BumCheeks

This crossed my mind a few times in the past. I completely agree with you.

If there was organized competitive CA, perhaps in that mode, crosshair names would be a good thing. However, in public servers it should be removed. It's anti-fun for a lot of players and serves no one except those that abuse it.

thanks for a great example of why true democracy would be horrifying

LOLCA

CA takes no skill. Dueling is the only mode that requires skill to play this game. Git gud or git out.

3464

lolca is 99% pure spam. exactly why 99% of the community plays it more than any other mode

ca is largely aim based, aim is a skill imo

CA changes lives. Even when drunk, I always aim straight and on target, with minimal splash damage at the urinals.

I turned mine off cuz some guy had a weird offset name with funny characters that was throwing off my lg. His name was on the edge of hit hitbox it annoyed the shit out of me. I do agree with you, names are pretty lame but it's not going to change.
I dont see the point of insta spawn in ca. It works in freeze tag (underrated gamemode) because you can get items and get thawed when you die but ca would just mean random losses cuz you spawned in a 1v3.

That's just the way it is. If you're playing with random people you never know how the match is going to play out. You can't expect too much cooperation from random people either. The strongest or weakest player being focused is technically a strategy and there's nothing wrong with that. Dying in a second flat is definitely frustrating but in matches where it may matter the most, i.e. clan competition, your teammates should be able to lend a hand.

Ganging is a tactic, playing differently depending on your enemy is a tactic, and knowing who you fragged/who fragged you/who fell in the fod and needs to be laughed at mercilessly over voice chat is a large part of what makes CA fun

Its for just this reason I have voice chat disabled...for me its the challenge of the encounter... not the humilliation of the opponent.

targeting a strong player is a tactic to try to win. so if that is the problem then stronger player needs to change tactic to stay alive and potentially win the game.

How many times we won from 9-5 behind, where team played -focus the stongest member and won, cuz he was unable to change his tactics and the tactic of his team.

Is he playing bridge?... ok focus him on br. He can move his team under br and spam nades on br until some1 is bunced off br. If the stronger player is soloing, the enemy team should ffa and 2v1 confront him. He can move where his team is and save him self.

don't play CA, but ur answer seems solid

played idk cca 5k ctf games, at start it was a fun pub and then competitively ctf, but once you play with a team you just cant get back to pub ctf, so i started playing CA from that time i played roughly 10k games.

CA is fun, so yes i will still play ca. You know why? Cuz i like defragging and fragging at the same time. CA and partiatly CTF supports defraging. 90% of quakers just cant handle fast moving targets eather way you look at it.

And trick jumping while you are playing can be confusing for your enemy - ie. dm6 jump from rl to mega with nade and rj back with that nade help... voila back to rl place ready to fire and the enemy still thinks you droped down from rl.

Hey filo,

You hit on an interesting point here when you say you like CA because you can defrag and frag at the same time. Thats exactly the reason I like it too. I spent a LOT of time playing defrag as smooth/advanced movement felt so satisfying. This was brought to the forefront with rocket arena especially when combined with air control. It was fantastic literally flying around the map while railing with pinpoint accuracy. Sadly it seems a lot of the players I see playing CA now never played this original form of the game and hence are'nt aware of what this game mode was originally about.

This is most obvious when you see the maps that are played.
CA was about the freedom to rocket jump without self damage. This freedom allowed the game to be played at a blistering pace, however this freedom of movement must be supported by the map.

Maps such as Hidden fortress (the worst offender) and Almost lost are completley unsuitabe for this type of play. Their 90 degree corners and low ceilings conspire to restrict a players movement. Hidden fortress also has that horrible choke point in the centre. Its a FFA map ffs! One of the reasons Campgrounds is played in CA so much is because it flows the corners are curved so skilled players can fly around the map. (try that on fortress) Quarantine is another good map for CA but some players have issues with FPS on that map so its often voted down.

Another map (which I personally think is the best for CA) is the purpose built TS_CA1. Unfortunatley this map is rarley played in QLive as 90% dont know it (because they never play it) and 60% cant strafe so they cant take advantage of it. For them its geometry is an obstacle not a fun challenge! Every part of that map flows like a well oiled machine. It was ported to the Quake clone Reflex not so long ago so clearly somebody recognised the quality of this map. All the corners are curved which is especially important in VQ3 as you have no air control. It was played a lot on CPMA servers too especially on French and Dutch servers. I remember Defrag being very popular amongst French players (perhaps because they have a long tradition of skiing) i dont know.. they like Parquor too. Kind of like a real life version of Defrag.

Im always shocked when I see players crawling round the map bumping into walls and not being able to strafe only to witness them railing at 50+ 60+ 70+ and ofc 40+ LG and I think WTF? Its like those bodybuilder guys who have huge upper bodies and pigeon legs LOL. Half of their game is missing and its because they never played RA3/CPMA/OSP (or they have a bot!). Thats not their fault but its effect is detrimental to the present choice of maps. Anyway just though I'd let you know were cut from the same cloth.

BumCheeks

Remember when CA was actually fun?
warsow remembers

(and russians in OSP, and some promode people)

Thanks for posting this..I never realised Warsow was so fast.. Its like CPMA x 2. Excellent.

Hey M1zzu,
I would just like to say thanks again for this post. I was so impressed with the Warsow video I installed it and played it all night until 2am! I love it. Just sorted out my config and been playing it again today. Reminds me so much of Q3 CPMA (PQL/Turbo in QLive) but with much better maps. I love it and will spend a lot of time playing this.

This is the best game I have played in a long time. And its free! Its so polished and works right out the box. You were right about the fun. The CA map Fun Park is the epitome of what a CA map should look and feel like. No stupid right angle corners or pokey corridors or restricted headroom. Clearly these guys have thought about this. I would recommend all 'new' CA players (ie those who never played Ra3 or OSP CA) to have a look at this map so they can see why maps like Hidden Fortress or Almost Lost are completley unsuitabe for playing CA how it was originaly intended. The bastardised version I see played every day on QLive servers (mine included) are an insult to the original ideal. Anyway enough of my rant. Gonna set my own Warsow server up now on my linux box hehehe. I have known about this game for years but was fooled by the cell shaded graphics. I never bothered to take it seriously. What a fool I was.

Thanks again Buddy.

BumCheeks

Hi barry
Glad you like it. I only started playing seriously like last week as well (game's been sitting on my hard drive for quite some time). There's another clip on youtube called "the warsow jagstep" which shows off what kind of moves you can do on that map. Tip: Warsow has this interesting property where you can rocketjump next to one of these arcs that are all over the map and through the arc the vertical speed from the rocketjump is translated in horizontal speed. You see it all the time in that video (thinking about it, that's also how they get fast in the insta video above, the slanted surface on top of the jumppad).
If you wanna play some other kinda fun casual mode, you might want to hop into #warsow.pickup on quakenet. Like it says on the tin, it's where pickups are organized, and the main gamemode that's being played is called bomb. It's essentially Counterstrike's bomb/defuse mode, but without the economy or nades in the CS sense (and obviously it plays out very differently than CS cause of movement/weapons and so on). 5v5, 15 rounds where Team A is attacking and trying to get a plant, and 15 rounds the other way. You start with 100/100, two primary weapons (two of Rocket/Shaft/Rail) and a secondary one (one of plasma/SG/MG/GL). One person in the attacking team has the bomb and calls what site to attack through team chat. The mode's fun and the people are nice (tho a bit troll-y and drama-queen-y at times*).You won't get that fast-paced gameplay from CA though (the maps really are more like CS and self-damage and FF are on). Still fun.
Best regards

;_;

people say lolca, but the fact is they dont really know how to take advantage of the CA mod.

ppoverkill map (proly last ra3 release map) + ra3 music, one of best times in game. mmmm

Black Cathedral #1

amen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifmRgQX82O4

Mrs B.J Smegma.

@ tier4 CA u know how 2 fake meet & run and push own members b4 yourself

Remove fucking nades from ca then we'll talk.

Fucking nade spaming!

Integral part of the game, learn to counter it. Like its hard to properly evade them straight on.

meh

imho post hp/armor on scoreboard even and give wh for 1v* fights

Terrible idea. Name tags are an essential part of multiplayer games. Without them you can't do fun pregame stuff like have your Keel hump a specific other person's Keel.

hehehe this

Lets remove the only element of strategy that gametype has

I dont advocate their complete removal, just the provision of a server option... much like the handicap system on Dogs and Bus station, that way people can try it then vote with their feet. I think a lot of players would come to prefer it, much like noobs who vote down new maps they dont know only to discover after playing them that they were good (sometimes excellent ) maps after all..they were just too lazy to learn them.

you can still turn off forced models tho.

You could, but the enemy team would simply all use the same Keel/Sarge model. bind Say_Team "lets use keel"

be realistic in a pub game no1 will change models for some1 else.

Hi filo,

They wont be doing it for someone else, they'll be doing it for themselves. Exploiting team models is easily defeated.

Scenario 1) Strong player wants to remain anonymous, simply changes his model to mimic a weaker teamates.

Scenario 2) Weak player wants to remain anonymous, simply changes his model to mimic a stronger teamate.

Neither of these situations requires the whole team to change models. But I think they probably would anyway.

If this mode became the norm it would be standard procedure to avoid the gang. This game is about self preservation. Lots of players want to hide their identities. I see it every day, Im sure you do too.

Another thing about not forcing team models is the original reason for forcing team models.. Its harder to see some models than others thats why we do it.. to increase enemy visibility. Why would you give this up?

No, using the original models would not defeat the removal of names. I think thats the reality of the situation...

What do you think about Insta-Spawn?

lol ganging noobs is my fav way to elofarm on 1000+ elo servers.

Perhaps the names could be supressed by a plugin for minqlx?

Name tags offer a great deal more than just focus, it allows to recognize players in heated situations and it often has impact to the decisions I make in the game. There are players that I won't engage in certain positions and situations, because I am aware that I am mechanically not as sound as some of them with a particular weapon.

Let's say were playing Overkill, one trick I use at the start of the round whenever some player is out of position and is mid jump from pad very shortly before the match, I do jump block him and start to LG while he is falling down to the ground or back to pad. Against certain players I won't try this, because I know he is able to react against this by stabilizing with a rocket push from the wall to the ground to minimize the amount of damage he takes in air, and if the players happens to be superior with LG, the player will equalize the penalty that I tried to inflict on him by quickly re-positioning for a 1v1 LG fight which against certain players is not my strong suit. Has happened a few times that I've lost some rounds.

There are many other situations mid game where I won't engage or engage someone based on my knowledge of their habits and mechanical skill. There are many players that I simply won't be able to force an LG fight from a jump-pad even if I have more health, just because the opponent is going to drill in me with insane accuracy even if I do get a foothold on the ground fast enough, but I won't be able to win that fight if I saw that hard LG hitting player who took higher ground on Overkill when I tried to rail him from below.

Some kind of tier3 suggestion...

i definitely agree with this opinion. You simply do not go into fights in certain positions, if you see a player who can in some point overtake you.

so having no names would be at least more frustrating at times at least in higher tears.

The comments made by Tripleight (#32) and its reply filo (#35) both highlight the tactical advantge the CH names give during combat. They aid the decision wether to attack or not based on an opponents (Known) skill level. In other words Im gonna select a soft target because I may lose against a strong one. I mean who wants to get into a fight they may lose?

Now I completley understand this logic but Im vehmently opposed to it. It strikes me as cowardly, are peoples egos so delicate they cant risk a loss, even in a computer game? Why do you think opponent health bars are removed? Because it gives the same form of tactical advantage against a weaker player. Its exactly the same thought process.. this guy is weaker so I will attack.. this guy is strong so I will run/ hide. Instead of ... (you have to use tactical awareness here) this guys positioning / movement / aim look weak Ill attack him! Removing names would add more tactical depth as without the spoon fed visual cues players would genuinely have to think about every encounter.

In a similar vein I think the low health sounds should only be audible to the player who reduces the opponent to this critical health level. All other players should only hear it if they have actually hit them and not because they are in the audible vicinity.

Again I propose these settings as an optional server setting to see what players think of it. I DONT advocate making it the standard server settings.

BumCheeks

Methinks nobody would be interested in that but if you want to develop it yourself and have people try it, Godspeed.

Well if the variables required to implement it are exposed to minqlx then yes I would do it myself. I wrote a plugin about 6 months ago that automatically kicks abusive players. It would be much easier though if it was a standard option in the server.cfg
Thanks Flash

BumCheeks

Why do you think the only option I have is to target a weaker player if I recognize the skill of the player? It just means I need to think of a different approach on how to attack/defend against him, adapt my game-play. If I see a hard hitting player who is on fire with rail, that means I need to get close, don't give him angles and so on.

Your interpretation of the subject is very one-sided and narrow.

Hi Tripleight,

I dont think the only option you have is to target a weaker player I just think its the default action in most cases. I understand (and respect) your argument but I still believe the is room for some change in approach here. Are you against implementing a server side option to remove names? And if so why?
What do you think about an Insta-Spawn option? Do you think CA should remain in its present form or should we try to move it forward?

I dont think these proposed changes would stop people playing. You only have to look at the very popular Dogs servers where players are severley handicapped if they outperform by a certain margin. You would expect players to avoid it, quite the opposite, all the servers are full all day every day! If handicaps were suggested today for the first time what do you think the response would be?

People like continuity, they dont always embrace change but sometime change can be very beneficial. You just have to give it a chance.

BumCheeks

wut server barry play on so i can insert some shaft forcibly

I played CPM clan arena without ch names for a good 2 years and after a couple of rounds it's really not that hard to tell who's who. I doubt it'd make too much of a difference.

hI Pill_

I played it too. I also remember Insta-Spawn being used at the same time.. Ganging at the start was not an issue then (just the guys with godlike rail and terrifying shaft LOL)

bumcheeks

I actually agree on the first part.
Even though it is rather easy to find out who is who, you still can't be sure on first sight (and thus you will play less reckless). It makes it harder to organise a focussed attack too.

There's a reason it's also disabled in games like CS:GO.
And sure, CS:GO is a different game in where it is less important I guess, but still.. it's not desirable anyhow.

Barry, you're a legend mate. [+] for best name in quake live.

Thank you sya_ .... thats straight from the crack... ;-)

I think i understand what you want, you want things to be more competitive, but then id should also remove the ability for specs to see the match because there are some ghosting with mates as specs. Leaving the specs in a queue, which they still havnt implemented.

Hi Daniel2,

Yes thats true, Id done half the job when they restricted specs to their own team. They could make it harder to ghost by not revealing the players stack and also delaying the stream by say 5 seconds or so to help conceal the players location..

BumCheeks

Well i agree 100% with your idea then, but id isnt working on QL anymore :(

This is the most noob post I've ever read.

Keep reading.