There's heaps of misinformation about it. There's plenty of athletes and body builders who are strictly vegan who perform the same or even better than other diets. You just have to make sure to eat heaps. At the end of the day do what you feel is right to eat.

Vegan bodybuilders that use protein shakes and steroids.. nice example.

and? so compare enhanced non-vegan vs. vegan athletes then. what's your point?
plenty of natty vegan athletes on youtube.

the fact that you mention protein isolates shows you have no clue about this topic. first of all, there are vegan protein isolates: pea, rice, soy, etc. so once again what's even your point?
second, taking protein isolates doesn't do any miracles for you, there's 3 main uses for it: 1) convenience, depending on your meals 2) cutting BF% in caloric deficit but still hitting protein reqs 3) hitting reqs for enhanced builders who can actually benefit from it due to unnaturally high protein synthesis

My point is pretty clear to people that don't have to resort to a cliche meaningless rebuttal like "what's your point?" when they get exposed.

My point is that when you're on anabolics, it almost doesn't matter what you eat or what you do. Studies have shown that people that sit on their asses all day but were on roids developed more lean mass than physically active people that weren't, in the same time period. That's right.

When you're on roids you can eat trash and still look like a greek demigod. You can literally live off mc donalds and be shredded.

So the fact that there are "vegan" bodybuilders means jack shit when they're on roids.

And notice how i said "vegan". Yes, because those individuals don't consider using whey extracts as cheating on their supposedly vegan diet, or claim they're on pea powder while swallowing gallons of gold standard.

Meaningless cliche rebuttal? No. You literally have no point, you haven't provided a valid argument. Again, you can compare enhanced vegan athletes vs. enhanced non-vegan athletes, and, there are plant-based protein isolates. You have no point at all.

"Studies have shown that people that sit on their asses all day but were on roids developed more lean mass than physically active people that weren't "
Correct. And...
"My point is that when you're on anabolics, it almost doesn't matter what you eat"
So you are agreeing with me here that you can build muscle as long as you get adequate protein, doesn't matter if it's a vegan or non-vegan source of protein. Excellent, I'm glad we're in agreement.

"When you're on roids you can eat trash and still look like a greek demigod. You can literally live off mc donalds and be shredded."
This is irrelevant to any of the points raised so far.

"So the fact that there are "vegan" bodybuilders means jack shit when they're on roids."
It doesn't have to mean anything, you were the first to mention steroids in the first place. What it means is they can still get an adequate amount of protein, that's it.
Again, there are PLENTY of natty vegan bodybuilders and athletes on youtube, who have documented their journey, which you have conveniently ignored. And once again the conclusion is that a vegan diet is adequate for athletic and bodybuilding goals.

"And notice how i said "vegan". Yes, because those individuals don't consider using whey extracts as cheating on their supposedly vegan diet, or claim they're on pea powder while swallowing gallons of gold standard."
Whey isn't vegan, they don't use whey, and why would they?
Absolutely ridiculous claim. You are desperately grasping at straws because you don't have a single valid argument.
Furthermore, they don't have to use any protein isolates at all, like I said it's for convenience depending on your daily meals.

A: Snails are very fast animals. There is a snail which went from Paris to Lyon in 2 hours.
B: That might not be a good example. This snail was riding on the TGV train obviously.
A: What's your point, it was still as fast as a Cheetah which was riding on the same train. Compare the snail to the cheetah. They both have the same speed when they are on the train!
B: Exactly, when you are putting animals on a fast train, their base speed does not matter anymore...
A: You have no point, you have no point, you have no point.

Sounds familiar?

For a moment I thought that this was the thread about clutch

I'm a vegan and a fag. I'm a vegan fag.

why do you care what they think

Studies say it's healthier than BigMac.

remove processed foods from your diet and you are already a winner.

Its perfectly sustainable as long as you eat food supplements as well since you can't get everything from veggies. The advantage of eating meat other than the good stuff meat contains is that a meat eaters also eat veggies, while vegans don't also eat meat.

there is no need for supplements, you can get everything the body needs from a diverse vegan diet

Nothing wrong with it, I was a vegan for over a decade.

How did the first bite of red meat taste like after said decade?

It's not like I had forgotten what it tasted like, I started with easier-to-digest meats like crustaceans and fish, then poultry etc... I still eat very little red meat. It didn't have any 'forbidden fruit' factor to it tbh :D

Damn. I expected so much more xD "tasted like virgin Marias freshly clean hoohoo" or "somethingsomething like a thousand suns" with explotions and shit.

no thank you

Fruit only diet sounds more intense. But also more delicious.

Oh no, another useless internet fight incoming

Maybe if we direct them to the previous one: http://www.esreality.com/post/2857253/re-meat-is-good/

:D

As long as it doesn't cast a shadow...

You can get all from plants! Where did I place my iron and B12 supplements?

Brainwashed hippie propaganda, that's what it is.

B12 was originally found in fresh soil but thanks to advanced farming, the soil is ruined so now you have to get b12 from supplements, heck the meat you eat containing b12 is actually supplemented to the livestock when they're alive.

Relax with your nonsense nutritional fallacy and go eat a chunk of meat.

You obviously are just here to troll so I'm not going to waste my finite time to reply to you any further.

You already got owned in the previous thread on all your bullshit. Back for more?
I see you're still upset at vegans because of your ex. Let it go.

Owned with what? Some bullshit, misinformed, uneducated vegan theory crafting with no sources that I didn't even bother replying back? I've got better things to do than writing essays for uneducated hippies, most of the time.

There were few simple things in few words that you and a bunch didn't understand previously. Like if someone doesn't understand that cancer is caused by genetic predisposition and diet is just a risk factor, meaning meat by itself doesn't cause cancer, then I just don't even bother to continue discussing.

I will give you another simple thing that you green hippie fucks likely haven't read anywhere. There is a thing called homeostasis, it describes the process of maintaining a concentration of a variable in the body as constant as possible. Homeostasis have varying priorities in different cells in the organism, since most of the micro elements are tested and evaluated by blood tests and blood has one of the highest priorities for most of the part, so it's not an objective way to test any deficiencies until the deficiency is major and has caused damage.

It's just a matter of time till those deficiencies will show.

"uneducated vegan theory crafting with no sources"
As opposed to your non-vegan theorycrafting of empty assertions with no sources? My source = reality. What I see with my own eyes, and experience on my own body, is the ultimate truth, not some article online.


"that I didn't even bother replying back?"
Sure you did: http://www.esreality.com/post/2856775/meat-is-good/#pid2856977
With empty assertions as usual, such as 'it's not normal food', 'humans aren't meant to eat like that'. What's not 'normal food', fresh fruits and vegetables, rice, pasta, potatoes? Hilarious!


"I've got better things to do than writing essays for uneducated hippies, most of the time."
I'm not convinced that you do. You try to set some intellectual standards here, yet when somebody tries to provide you with new information, your reaction is instant dismissal and mockery: http://www.esreality.com/post/2881862/vegan/#pid2882203
You know why? Because you are emotionally invested. Which is why you use expressions such as 'vegan shit', 'hippe fuck'. Your resentment of vegans and veganism is palpable. You are incapable of emotionally distancing yourself from it and having an objective look at both sides. No hate though, just saying. I can relate, I used to dislike vegans. One day you'll come around.


"There were few simple things in few words that you and a bunch didn't understand previously."
Of course, you are just too sophisticated for us.


"Like if someone doesn't understand that cancer is caused by genetic predisposition and diet is just a risk factor, meaning meat by itself doesn't cause cancer, then I just don't even bother to continue discussing."
But it does. It's not caused by genetic predisposition, that's why it's called a predisposition. Cancer is a defense mechanism vs. damaging environmental factors, the #1 factor being: what we ingest.
Like, even the WHO has finally admitted that red meat and processed meat cause cancer. Did you already forget that, it was only last year: https://www.cancer.org/latest-news/world-heal...ancer.html
"The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) has classified processed meat as a carcinogen, something that causes cancer. And it has classified red meat as a probable carcinogen, something that probably causes cancer. IARC is the cancer agency of the World Health Organization."
Seems pretty clear-cut to me. But let's look at some additional data, shall we?
red meat associated with increased risk of cancer mortality
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalm...le/1134845

vegan diet reduced cancer risk
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC...-02131.pdf

consistent positive association between high intake of red and processed meat and colorectal cancer
https://academic.oup.com/jnci/article/97/12/9...e-European

vegan diet protects against overall and female-specific cancer
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23169929

higher intake of heme iron associated with cancer risk
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24243555

protein fermentation and colorectal cancer
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22121108

cholesterol is capable of regulating proliferation, migration, and signaling pathways in breast cancer
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22867847


" that you green hippie fucks likely haven't read anywhere."
Yep. You are the only person on this planet who knows of homeostatis. Grab onto that precious knowledge, hold it tight.

"It's just a matter of time till those deficiencies will show. "
Sure. That's why there are millions of vegans worldwide in excellent health LONG TERM.

So, I then explain the BASIC concept of cancer genetic predisposition and then you post this wall about red meat and cancer...

Fuck off. I ain't going to quote books you will not find on the internet and not going to translate it into English just for you. I actually read books, medicine and shit. You should try.

Yes, I rather mock such a level of stupidity.

I can say one more thing, we eat more meat than necessary, that's true, but going all hippie on it is not a solution. A balanced diet is a solution.

"So, I then explain the BASIC concept of cancer genetic predisposition and then you post this wall about red meat and cancer..."
Uhh, no. You have denied meat causing cancer, and I have proven you wrong with multiple pieces of evidence.

" I actually read books, medicine and shit."
That's nice. I've read Medicine and Shit too, great read. Also read The Bible, 100% factual truth. Have you tried that one?

"balanced diet is a solution."
A balanced diet, oh how original. You don't have the first clue of what you are balancing, and why.

"Fuck off. Yes, I rather mock such a level of stupidity."
Yes, yes, you have done nothing so far but emotional outbursts, and ad hominem. No counter-arguments, no citations. Bye bye.

That it's the best diet for health and longevity.

Free from animal saturated fat and cholesterol

Ive tried a 100% vegetable diet and a week, 10 days after, i start to have issues.

What is easy and gives great results is:
0 dairy
0 flour
0 processed
oils: only extra virgin olive for cold food and extra virgin coconut for heating
50% fruits always eaten alone, not mixed with other foods
30% green leafy vegetables
15% other vegetables
5% grass fed beef / organic eggs only at midday, never at night

You wont believe the energy, good mood, and will to do productive things that you will start to feel some time after, when the body is clean. Fruits are the best source of energy, easy to digest, best source of water, much better than spring water, cause plants are amazing water filters, and are loaded with enzimes, ionic minerals, vitamins, antioxidants, etc. Also eating so healthy creates a thriving good bacteria enviroment in your intestines, these bacteria produces a lot of nutrients that we cant synthesize ourselves.

I will link you a master piece of health and nutrition, done by the father of naturopathy, who was murdered one week after publishing it because it would have left big pharma out of business fast. From all the books ive read about nutrition and health, its the best, by far. Its from 1922... Worth every word. He was able to live in a 100% fruit/vegetables diet, with amazing health and vitality, but as i said, its hard to do a 100% plant diet. Just adding a little animal protein its much easier, but it has to be a little, and only one time per day. One egg or one small steak is enough.

One great problem of eating really healthy, is that the body starts to detoxify, and you get weird symptoms, headaches, loose stools, boils, nausea, and you think, this food is doing me bad. Nothing further from the truth, its just that you cant go from toxic diet to healthy diet in a shot, you must do it in stages, so you give your body enough time to clean itself without major issues.

http://www.truthseekerz.com/Arnold_Mucusless_Diet.pdf

do you seriously believe someone was murdered by the 'big pharma' in 1922 because he published a book about diet?

If you read the book and see what he says about allopathic medicine, and try his methods and get amazing results, you will be more prone to believe it. And he was on an amazing athletic state, its hard to believe he can fall back with enough force to have a basal fracture of the skull, it would be hard even for sedentary people. There were no other persons in the street, no witnesses.

Problem is most people, like you, are too good person, you cant even imagine they could do those things. But the big fish dont become big fish because they have good hearth. Ive seen to many coincidences in my years of research about health of dubious "suicides" and deaths with people researching cures for things that are big bucks for big pharma, another clear example are GcMAF pushers as a cancer cure, most are dead now.

Obiously i wasnt there, i cant say 100% it was, but taking into account all the facts i know, yes, i believe he was murdered. The book isnt only about diet, its about health, and he was known for a long time in closed circles, with the book he was starting to be more known and public. He also didnt cared about money more than having a roof and food, totally different spirit of pharma big fishes.

Let's look at this.

1.
A single person, that publishes a "scientific paper", back when information technology was non existant, could pose danger to a large corporations own interest.

2.
The only solution to prevent the "truthz" is to murder this poor man.
The paper is already out there.

3.
Inb4 that i should "educate myself".

I'm not familiar with the incident but I wouldn't be surprised. Why?
Look up some conspiracies that turned out to be true.

The monetary/market system is based on cyclical consumption, which is why the healthcare industry naturally gravitates towards keeping people alive but chronically sick, requiring continuous purchase of healthcare services and medication. It's the sad but very simple reality.
People get killed all the time when they threaten business(and livelihood) interests, why would this be any different?

Gstructor always being informative as usual. You can disagree with the content, but he always searches stuff by himself instead of parroting.

thanks man, appreciated :)

I agree with most, not all. Like I've said in the previous thread, it's good that you are doing research and educating yourself.
I'd drop all animal products though. Will it have a large impact if you are eating small amounts? Probably no. And a week is not very long, I'd give it more time. Gut flora needs 1-2 weeks to adjust usually.

You say 0 processed, but oils are processed. Depends on your interpretation I guess, most foods are processed, I DEFINITELY consider cold-pressed oils processed, they are 100% fat isolates.
Oils are very low in micronutrients, studies show they reduce endothelial function. I don't use any and would skip all, but if you use occasionally, or even daily in small amounts, again it's not going to have a very large impact, but still sub-optimal.
I would never heat any oil, doesn't matter if it's cold-pressed or refined, just because it has a higher smoke point, the structure changes when it's heated. You said extra virgin coconut oil for heating, which is unrefined, and actually has a low smoke point of 350 F... Again, I would never heat an oil but if that's what you want to do, then always use refined for cooking and baking.

Not much more to add... fruit is the most optimal by far, our species-specific food.

The last part... yes, unfortunately healthier foods often get blamed due to detox effects. Also like I've said, gut flora needs 1-2 weeks to adjust, people usually don't give these things enough time and dismiss it as 'oh I had trouble digesting it', 'oh I felt crap'. So it's important to stress this and hammer it home.
Also, it's not just physical but emotional detox, the less burdened you are with digestion and toxins, the more awake, conscious and present you are, and this will be hell for many people, like undealt with emotions coming up, etc. They will crave their cooked foods and animal products to numb them out again, hence the term 'comfort foods'. It's an addiction like any other.

Coconut oil is the only oil that if you dont reach the smoke point, it doesnt changes, its kind of a magic oil. It has 50% lauric acid, the same fat of mothers milk, which doesnt requires bile to be digested. Yes, as you said, they are processed, but theyre the healthier oils.

Do you have wife and kids? Its already pretty difficult to get them to change so radically their diet, they need some of the old foods to cope with it, for example one time per week some as healthy as can be french fries done with coconut oil make them feel more "normal" and think that im not as "crazy" as all the rest of their friends and relatives think im are. Sometimes if you pressure people too much, the result is worse and they go back to eating all kind of crap (already happened to me before when i tried to be too strict) than kind of negotiating and letting them have of the old food that they want.

I already tried more than one time to completely stop eating animal foods, but i start to feel too weak and tired after one or two weeks, and not because of detox, because i was already detoxed. I believe depending on your genetics, some people have more difficulty stopping completely with animal foods. I already feel way more energetic, happy and productive with that minimal animal protein than before, and its also easier for the rest of my family to not stop eating those foods. And most days we eat eggs not meat, which is healthier.

Getting them to eat only lots of fruits for breakfast and 5 o clock, and stopping completely with flour and dairy, is already a big improvement for their health that im very proud off. Apart from the rest of changes i mentioned.

plants are living beings ok

we meat again

There are a myriad problems with being vegan, mostly deficiencies and the best is birth defects. Also it is very good for infants, they break like dry leaf. Personally I Love it.

Vit D deficiency

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28179126

B12 deficiency

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23356638

you gotta have love for the lack of b12 and its adverse effects on babies of these women

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11509098

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21664980

There are also bone density problems in infants if I remember right but I'm lazy to look it up.

I'm sure that you are a man so you can tough it out and the chances of giving life to a baby are slim in your case, but yes, what can be wrong with it? I mean the body is remarkably resilient. I'm also sure that unlike other vegans.., at least all the vegans I spoke to were very very keen on convincing me that they are not like the others, they used food science to put together their diets, but somehow no specifics were given..and they are fat like hell usually, spouting nonsense about healthy eating while having zero idea about calories..yes yes it is very convincing to hear them speak about ittt... their fat bodies in excitement ...they don't eat meat so they overeat on carbohydrates
I'm sure these esteemed gentlemen here know about these issues though, q players know all kind of shit

Some interesting addenum here

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observat...-died-out/

https://www.livescience.com/23671-eating-meat-made-us-human.html

What the fuck is the difference between a grass eater and a predator?

One eats all fucking day, a cow, spending every waking hours with grazing. Digesting all that shit is hard, not to mention chewing it, the animal is evolved to have the necessary teeth and stomach for it. It is a slow lifestyle to say the least, the nutrition density of these foods is scarce. Runs from predators and constantly shits itself while it is drinking.

The other is fast and eats the processed grass turned into meat off from aforementioned grazing animal's back. Then it slacks in the shadow.

Humans had a nice trick back then, enabling the consumption of high energy density meat with minimal digestion difficulties: they cooked the meat, essentially pre digesting it. They could also eat almost everything that grew, making us the pinnacle of this sorry earth, best of both worlds. Now somehow, many generations later, these fucking ppl want to go back eating grass because they think they will live 100 years longer, even though the average lifespan increases and it is destroying our healthcare and retirement funds on the supposedly unhealthy diets.

Btw, someone mentioned body builders. You make me laugh son. The issue is, you have to consume twice the amount of protein from plant sources to have the same effect.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5041535/

Because fucking plant proteins have much less leucine and general amino acid content. Again, deficiencies. But I'm sure you can hard nose it as well. Why not bring intentional difficulties into our life, it is too easy anyway.

Be my guest spending twice the money on shit and thinking your fart smells like roses because that is what vegan lifestyle is in a nutshell. If you like nuts so much, I can offer mine ... at least the content of them----------------------->
homo vegans

ps: going vegan can have positives, but im not gonna go into it.
Clean eating, body cleansing etc is a perpetuated myth, there is no such thing. I'm not gonna go into that either. If you think feeling dizzy and nauseous is good for you then I have nothing to say. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you man, have you thought about it lately that there is something wrong with you

tl;dr: Veganism is a psychological eating disorder mainly attacking the weak minded, women and girly men. Fills them with much needed entitlement.

Very good read. Listen to what this man say, he speaks the truth.

all farmed animals got b12 also supplemented idiot

> One eats all fucking day, a cow, spending every waking hours with grazing. Digesting all that shit is hard, not to mention chewing it, the animal is evolved to have the necessary teeth and stomach for it.

Grass isnt part of a vegan diet, its a very scarce source of energy, while i.e. fruits are also plant based but are highly concentrated sources of energy. Not defending vegan lifestyle, just that i find that comparison off.

Carnivores have much shorter intestines, higher stomach acid, and quicker digestion. Its very easy for them to digest meat, and the toxic by-products are quicly expelled. We, as omnivores, benefit from animal protein, but it has to be little amounts, and the raw plant food based antioxidants and alkalizing nature neutralize the acidifying and toxic byproducts of its digestion, while the fiber assure a quick elimination. Balance is key.

Anyone can play pubmed link warrior, that doesn't make you a scientist. I can literally link you dozens of studies that are in favour of a plant-based diet. Probably several times more than you could. What's the fucking point? No-one wants to play this stupid game, even though you'd lose. Most of what you linked you have apparently not read yourself or not interpreted properly, and you've made sure to add some random internet articles as well.

"There are a myriad problems with being vegan, mostly deficiencies and the best is birth defects. Also it is very good for infants, they break like dry leaf. Personally I Love it."

Oh really?
"It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more
environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity. Low intake of saturated fat and high intakes of vegetables, fruits, whole grains, legumes, soy products, nuts, and seeds (all rich infiber and phytochemicals) are characteristics of vegetarian and vegan diets that produce lower total and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels and better serum glucose control. These factors contribute to reduc-
tion of chronic disease. Vegans need reliable sources of vitamin B-12, such as fortifiedfoods or supplements."

Oh ain't that curious? I wonder who has more credibility, a random clueless idiot like yourself, or the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics.
FULL PAPER: http://www.eatrightpro.org/~/media/eatrightpr...-diet.ashx

"Vit D deficiency"
Vitamin D is synthesized on the skin surface when UVB rays come in contact with cholesterol, and is consequently absorbed.
Nothing to do with diet. Moron.

"B12 deficiency"
You forgot the part where non-vegans are also deficient, due to lifestyle factors, like destroying intrinsic factor and not being able to absorb B12.
You forgot the part where B12 is a Cobalt molecule originally from the soil and fresh water, so nothing to do with diet, but modern way of living, where all produce are cleaned so ppl don't ingest trace amounts of dirt, and they also do not drink fresh spring water.
Furthermore, livestock are supplemented by B12, fact. So you are taking second hand B12 supplement, filtering it thru another sentient being's body with all the other nutrients, and getting a shitty package deal with cholesterol, saturated fats, hormones, etc. All the while criticizing others for 'supplements'. Nice fucking job, idiot.
What the fuck do you think these are for, hm?
http://www.naturalstockcareshop.co.uk/images/products/051.jpg
https://www.agridirect.ie/site/uploads/sys_pr...12-500.jpg
http://www.net-tex.co.uk/sites/default/files/...up_RGB.jpg
http://elipseinternational.com/images/cobalt_b12_all_sizes.jpg
https://www.virbac.com.au/files/live/sites/au...Hy-B12.jpg


"and they are fat like hell usually"
" their fat bodies in excitement"
That's nice. And where are these fat vegans exactly? Are you projecting?
38K participants, vegans had lower BMI:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12833118
Did you seriously just try to assert that vegans are fat? Maybe you did, maybe you are truly a fucking moron. Stay utterly wrong.


"The issue is, you have to consume twice the amount of protein from plant sources to have the same effect."
More empty assertions. Maybe read the study you linked, it doesn't even back up your claim.
There are plenty of well-documented vegan bodybuilders who assimilate plant proteins just fine, and build muscle. You are detached from reality.


"What the fuck is the difference between a grass eater and a predator? [...]"
How the fuck is this any relevant? We are neither herbivores, carnivores, nor predators.
Humans are inherently fruit-eaters, just like chimpanzees(whom we are closest to, in terms of sharing DNA), who eat mostly fruit, some tender green leaves, rarely insects, and very rarely meat. Biological adaptations determine dietary group. All anatomical features indicate biological adaptations to a frugivorous diet.
http://imgur.com/l21kHOL


"consumption of high energy density meat with minimal digestion difficulties:"
Minimal digestion difficulties? So you're saying there are difficulties, but they are minimal?
How about zero fiber content, lingering in the intestines for days and building a plaque? How about the wrong ratio of amino acids making the body acidic and causing problems? How about the fact that the amino acids are already bundled together, and have to be broken down again, making the system work extra, unlike plant amino acids?

"they cooked the meat"
Humans predate cooking and cooking fire. Nice try.

" making us the pinnacle of this sorry earth"
The pinnacle of stupidity. We are going to self-destruct in a few decades tops, also taking with us other species, unfortunately. Unless very drastic changes occur, which is unlikely, considering the course of events so far, the brainwashing and dumbing down of masses like yourself who willfully argue against ppl who want to try and keep the environment habitable, and the strong grip of monetary/market system. Good fucking riddance.

"these fucking ppl want to go back eating grass "
You're the only retard here who keeps mentioning grass.

"they think they will live 100 years longer, even though the average lifespan increases"
Low meat intake associated with greater longevity: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12936945
76K participants, vegetarians lower risk of dying from heart disease: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10555529
Plenty of positive data on plant-based life expectancy.


"Because fucking plant proteins have much less leucine and general amino acid content"
They have much more ideal amino acid ratios, like much lower methionine, which can directly feed cancer cells.
And you are comparing meat vs. plants without taking into account the protein content, and ignoring that plants are usually high carb. You are making an invalid comparison, fucking moron. Here are some actual numbers as an example, NORMALIZED FOR AMOUNT OF PROTEIN:
Lentils, cooked, 17.9g worth of protein:
Isoleucine 772mg, Leucine 1295 mg, Lysine 1247 mg, Methionine 152 mg

Chicken breast, cooked, 16.5g worth of protein:
Isoleucine 872mg, Leucine 1240mg, Lysine 1403mg, Methionine 457mg

So as we can see, they are actually almost the same, except methionine for example is way lower, which is like I've said, beneficial. And there are of course several other amino acids, I just wanted to highlight the relevant ones here. Once again you are proven wrong, you just make empty assertions, baseless claims.
SOURCE: USDA nutrition database.


"Be my guest spending twice the money on shit"
Plant proteins such as legumes are way cheaper than meat when normalized for nutrient content. Starches such as rice, oats, wheat, potatoes, etc. for your bulk of energy are the cheapest foods available, which is why the poorest areas in the world are plant-based.


"homo vegans"
Your level of intellect is showing.

"going vegan can have positives, but im not gonna go into it."
Oh, how convenient.

"Clean eating, body cleansing etc is a perpetuated myth, there is no such thing"
Yea, I mean what's preservatives, artificial colouring, monosodium-glutamate, HFCS, palm oil, other additives, all environmental toxins? What's the lymphatic system right, that's 3x larger than the blood circulatory system, and handles all cellular waste?
"I'm not gonna go into that either."
No shit. Pure blissful ignorance, nothing more.


"Veganism is a psychological eating disorder mainly attacking the weak minded, women and girly men."
Women tend to find intelligence(such as making intelligent decisions to preserve your own habitat and health) and compassion manly. They also tend to find cowardice not-so-manly, such as dragging your fat ass into a supermarket, and paying other people to breed and slaughter animals for you. How manly.

"Fills them with much needed entitlement."
Entitlement to what? Do you even understand the meaning of the words you use?


And since you were so keen on playing the pubmed link warrior game, here are plenty of them that back up a plant-based diet, for your reading pleasure:

That's just a fraction of them. See, I can play this game too.
Read and learn, you ignorant dumbfuck.

Monumental-tier reply tbh. Well done

Quality post, thanks for taking the time to try to enlighten the tard.

There's way to many holes here.

Those studies. Is anyone paying attention to those meat eaters and how much meat they actually consume? It just states meat eaters have a higher BMI, that by itself doesn't say anything in a world where people simply trend to eat everything more than they need. How much calories the meat eaters ate? Don't try to answer, I know it's bullshit. A diet where people eat less foods will have less calorie intake.

Pregnancy in vegans? Bahahahah. First of all. I've heard only vegan children die. It's a statement for a diet practical only on paper, I hope no child has to endure something like that.

Ideal amino acid ratios? Get the fuck out of with this pseudo-science. A healthy human being will have no problems digesting a little bit of extra for reserve and shedding it when necessary, in conjuction with a healthy lifestyle.

Vegans are B12 vitamin deficient because vegan diet doesn't have nutrition with enough B12. It's ridiculous how you try to present fiction as fact, fuck off.

Cholesterol levels vary between individuals based on genetic predispostion first, anything else below that in priority - including diet. We don't eat cholesterol, we produce it ourselves and just because people are predisposed of having a high cholesterol, doesn't mean meat is the cause of it. Higher than normal cholesterol is fat that's essentially necessary for nerve cell functionality which is again a normal function of building reserves with the abundance of calorie intake nowadays.

Fuck off hippie fucks, seriously. I'm done because the more we will talk, the more nonsense you gonna spit and find. A monumental piece of shit I must say.

"It just states meat eaters have a higher BMI [...]"
Uhh, yes? That was kind of the point of the study, you know?
"OBJECTIVE: To compare body mass index (BMI) in four diet groups (meat-eaters, fish-eaters, vegetarians and vegans)"
What's the big surprise here?

You don't even need studies for this shit, it's simple, I'll break it down for you: vegans on average have much lower intake of saturated fats and protein, much higher intake of fiber, and the foods they ingest have a faster bowel transit time. So in effect, less fat is stored directly into adipose tissue, metabolism and digestion is faster, colon holds less waste on average which also reduces residual build-up. This results in lower BMI. It's not rocket science, seriously.
But hey, just for you, here are 2 more:
60K participants, mean BMI was lowest in vegans
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/32/5/791+

higher proportion of meat eaters than non-meat eaters were
overweight or obese, mean BMI was lower in non-meat eaters than in meat eaters among men and women at all ages
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Margaret...703e8c.pdf


"Pregnancy in vegans? Bahahahah. First of all. I've heard only vegan children die."
You've heard? That's nice. Why don't you take it up with the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics instead? Go and present your evidence for why a plant-based diet is unfit for pregnancy then.


"Ideal amino acid ratios? Get the fuck out of with this pseudo-science."
Which pseudo-science exactly? I've demonstrated with numbers from the USDA nutritional database that plant-based vs. meat have similar amino acid content gram for gram of protein, except lower amount of the harmful ones such as methionine.
methionine intake from proteins and oxidative stress
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18252204

protein methionine content and oxidative damage in mammals
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15955547

low-methionine diet as life extension strategy
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18789600

Where is the pseudo-science here? Seems like science to me.


"A healthy human being will have no problems digesting a little bit of extra for reserve and shedding it when necessary, in conjuction with a healthy lifestyle."
So an unhealthy human with an unhealthy lifestyle can't have meat? And why only a little bit? What are you even saying?
I eat as much fruit as I care for, isn't that telling?


"Vegans are B12 vitamin deficient because vegan diet doesn't have nutrition with enough B12. It's ridiculous how you try to present fiction as fact, fuck off."
That's a straw-man, as I have never argued against B12 deficiency or for vegan diet having B12. I have clearly explained what B12 is, where it comes from, and why it's problematic in today's civilization, and that livestock are supplemented with it as well. Try reading next time.


"Cholesterol levels vary between individuals based on genetic predispostion first"
Studies take into account BASELINE cholesterol levels, naturally, so this is an irrelevant point. Yes, we know. Thanks!


"We don't eat cholesterol"
Who are 'we' ? You don't eat cholesterol? So you're vegan now? Cool, man.


"just because people are predisposed of having a high cholesterol, doesn't mean meat is the cause of it"
No-one has argued that meat was the cause of high baseline cholesterol.


"Higher than normal cholesterol is fat that's essentially necessary for nerve cell functionality which is again a normal function of building reserves with the abundance of calorie intake nowadays."
Yea, that sounds like non-vegan theorycrafting with no sources, to quote from you.
Data on cholesterol and cardiovascular-disease relation is overwhelming at this point, why even go there...


cholesterol and heart disease
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3603726/

LDL cholesterol and arterial plaque development
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/circulati...7.full.pdf

effects of dietary cholesterol on serum cholesterol
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download...p;type=pdf

reduction in the plasma level of LDL cholesterol is associated with a substantial reduction in the incidence of coronary events, even in populations with a high prevalence of non-lipid-related cardiovascular risk factors
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16554528

high cholesterol intake and development of coronary artery disease
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/4/971.long

dietary oxidized cholesterol and oxidized fatty acids in the development of atherosclerosis
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16270280

atherosclerosis in ancient populations
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23489753


"Fuck off hippie fucks, seriously."
Are you having a mental breakdown? I'm sorry that you are offended by facts.

Thank u for the information about grass I honestly thought that vegans graze grass on the endless fields

Next time when we speak provide sources about these silly acid and toxic nonsense that proves or even implies that these arent organic processes that our bodies are perfectly capable of handling..otherwise i will think you read these on blogs and watch it on television. Very bad to bring toxicity into the diet question, because it begs again that idiocy about detoxification.

Otherwise balance is key yes. Whatever it means,surely not eating only meat or eating GRASS only

Looks like your toxic brain cant even use the reply button properly.

Idiocy is thinking what you eat doesn't makes you more or less toxic. Youre ignorance shows clearly, please eat as much meat, trans fat, aspartame, flouride, mercury and aluminium containing tuna, etc, and years later show the world how youre immune to toxicity. Then go to a coroners office and tell him those lbs of old, purtified impacted fecal matter on 90% of dead people intestines are holograms, fucking clueless muppet.

So you think there are no toxic substances in the environment(air we breathe, water we drink, food we ingest, substances we absorb thru the skin) that accumulate in the body if we are not getting rid of them at a fast enough rate? Thanks for confirming that you are absolutely clueless.

Yes Im absolutely clueless,see a harvard medical review about it.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy...e-of-detox

The body gets rid of it on its own but how can I debate with someone who thinks veggie protein has the same quality as whey or protein isolates arent better for muscle building than solids from food.
It is not me that uses "logic" and shoot with tired polemics about vegans not eating grass or that smoky air in cities arent exactly healthy, it is you guys. Don't you feel a bit stupid writing down obvious logical things to a guy who did cite reputable resources and similarly capable adding together easy facts ? Do you think I like to breath in asbetos or think that vegans eat grass? Who is stupid here then? you literally added nothing to my knowledge yet, with your armchair, mother in kitchen logic that for you encompasses every conversation in your dumbo world filled with obsolete facts and straight misinformation that you even misunderstood.
What is straight awesome though that the logic falls apart as well if you consider that even if there are toxins you cant prove that diet and vodoo will help you get rid of it and that is the exact point where imperceptibly for you, your logic becomes fantasy , imagination. Son , what you feel about shit just dosent matter as it is based on those obsolete,misunderstood facts. I can, could, did own both of you all over, backward and sideways, because your conclusions come from demonstratedly false premises and contrary from you I make a portion of my living in the health and fitness industry. Basically Im god compared to you in this respect and I decide how you will be punished.

Holy moley. This comment... gonna save this for copy pasta.

Such mad

"The body gets rid of it on its own"
Which is why I specifically stated 'not getting rid of them AT A FAST ENOUGH RATE. No-one claims the body isn't getting rid of them, idiot.

I believe what I see with my own eyes and what I experience on my own body, much rather than some shitty harvard article that just makes a general statement of yea yea the body can get rid of toxins in an ideal scenario... except MOST ppl today aren't in a fucking ideal scenario.

"who thinks veggie protein has the same quality as whey "
Plant proteins come without the adverse effects, and in terms of building muscle they are the same yes.

" or protein isolates arent better for muscle building than solids from food."
They aren't better. They are the exact same, it's all about hitting your intake requirements. So it's all a matter of convenience, especially for enhanced athletes who can benefit from higher protein intake due to unnaturally high protein synthesis. I've already explained this, like how fucking stupid are you?

" I can, could, did own both of you all over, backward and sideways, because your conclusions come from demonstratedly false premises and contrary from you I make a portion of my living in the health and fitness industry. Basically Im god compared to you in this respect and I decide how you will be punished. "
What are you, 12? Nice insecurities.

http://www.esreality.com/post/2882238/n-a/#pid2882238
Time to delete yourself.

Well played OP. :D

his previous masterpiece

http://esreality.com/post/2818622/why-hillary-or-trump/

clear to everyone that Bernie Sanders is the best candidate

loooooooooooooool

Read thread so far.. interesting 'discussions'

About myself I'm a vegetarian most of the days but eat fish 2-3 times a week. I must say I feel way better cutting meats out of my diet so far. Also dropped my protein intake to sub 100 grams and my strength levels and mood have improved tonnes.

Might try vegan lifestyle for a while just to see how I fare on it, but honestly think Gstructor is on to something (srs)

I think so too Probably on crack

Ah u meant on to, not "on " something
My bad

Gains and mood are all based on healthy hormonal levels mate. That's why recovery and carbs are way more important for naturals, than this protein myth that 95% of the people, fed by the supplement industry, believe in.

Any amount of toxins, especially the amount that come with consuming large amount of animal proteins are going to debilitate your athetic abilities and recovery in the long run. Especially when one is not taking exogenous androgens to boost protein synthesis.

"Also dropped my protein intake to sub 100 grams and my strength levels and mood have improved tonnes."

Well done. I try to think of animal protein as a natural "fertilizer" for human nutrition, as in a bit is good, too much is very bad.

Try it, see what happens. Even reducing animal products is already helpful...
I'd give it at least a month or so, though, because... things take time. Even the adjustment of gut flora when you drastically change what you eat can take 1-2 weeks. And have a plan of meals ahead.
You can PM if need help... 3+ years vegan here, I run and train bodyweight, progressing on both fronts at the same time.
Also lots of amazing natty vegan channels on youtube full of great info.
I don't worry about protein at all, I eat and get satiated and I'm good.
Too much unnecessary protein is just hard on your kidneys.
Here's a good explanation with math of protein needed for muscle gains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x_0epMFwHQ

I've been on a similar diet for about 2 years now, though I do eat an egg or two for breakfast probably 4 days a week, and eat fish probably 4 days a week and buy the best quality, generally most expensive :(, available of both. Other than that I've mostly cut processed foods out as well

. I'd say cutting the meats out did the same for me, noticed it about a month after making the switch. Any time I cheat and eat something I know I shouldn't (still never meat), I feel like complete shit 12-24 hrs later.

About 10 years ago when I was 20 I was working out couple hours a day 5 days a week, eating massive amounts of protein and taking supplements. Was in excellent shape but still eating prettty shitty processed food, lots of meat and preservatives. Now I'm only lifting fairly lightly 2-3 days a week and I'm stronger than I've ever been...not quite as cut but I'm not putting in nearly the same amount of effort.

2-3 day workout stronga than 5 day workout?
Nah ...

Lifting as a natty is all about steady, progressive overload and fatigue management.

Less is more. When will people start to acknowledge this already?

maybe he never trained before the 5-day training and first needed his body to accustom to the workout ... that should be the only reason ...
you dont need to go all in when you train 5 days, you could train more lightly between hard days ...

Aren't only roidfags going hard 24/7 with no brakes?

Yes. Protein synthesis is max. 48hrs usually less, so let's say somebody is doing full upper body 3x a week, he's already doing an optimal routine. Trying to go 5x without major adjustments would not work as the person would simply feel he's not yet recovered.

Good for you man. Thanks for sharing.

More people need to know about this.

yes its good if u want to retard yourself

*retardate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn0NXZ68tj8

Dont have time to write,but lacceh, everything you know is expired in 1996 i warned you didnt I. I will take your head later I m not gonna have probelm finding it monday,you store it in gstrictors ass,right?
Keep it up buddy Im off to the beach. Buy lube. Also alborz,the copy pasta is a good idea, an original comeback,not overused at all, you should be proud at least gstructor has mental issues but you are just a simple net retard

The actual fuck?

No point to being vegan.

Thread is actually quite informative
in regards to less meat
this is something me and a friend of mine who is a cyclist noticed as well
eating too much meat makes him perform worse and feel worse during long cycle race's
He swears by not eating any meat close to events/race's.

The man of the book i posted, tells how he had more endurance and energy on a pure fruit diet than professional cyclists, running 800 hundreds of miles from Algiers to Tunes. From seeing dozens of the best allopathic clinics at that time and declared incurable, to reaching crazy energy and health leves by self curing himself by learning which are the ideal foods of men.

Never heard of glycogen before? It's stored in your muscle/liver and gets broken down to glucose during intense activity to fuel your body/brain. Of course loading up on carbs before exercise is important; they also play a crucial role in recovery and metal function.

Low muscle glycogen stores result in muscle fatigue and the body’s inability to complete high intensity exercise; muscle weakness and reduced force production are common symptoms.

Who said eating meat increased physical performance during intense activity.

Meats and proteins take a lot of metabolic energy to digest. For instance it takes 6-10 hours to completely digest a steak, whereas fruit spikes your insulin levels as soon as it touches your tung and gives you energy right away.

Sugars are main source of energy in body. Replenishing glycogen in muscle is best done with a mix of fast and slow carbohydrates for a cyclist. Fast ones for immediate liver glycogen and slower ones who get transported over time to muscles when the liver is satuated.

back in stoneage humans would have starved to death on a vegan/vegetarian diet imho. ... a bear can eat fruits too, but for preparing for winter he needs to eat lot and lots of fish from the rivers :-)

Bear eats the fish for the amount of fats that's stored in fish, because fats are more calorie dense per g, which help the bear to add a lot of adipose tissue before going into hibernation in the winter. It has to do with efficiency.

About people in the stone-age we can just guess what they've been eating. It's one thing believing everything you read in books. Its another thing keeping your current day health in check by eating what makes u feel good and vital, and this is not gorging on meat most of the time.

amphetamine diet best diet tbh

The science is settled: a vegan diet makes you B12 deficient and very trollable.

Okay, Lacceh, I came to your head :D


"
And you are comparing meat vs. plants without taking into account the protein content, and ignoring that plants are usually high carb. You are making an invalid comparison, fucking moron. Here are some actual numbers as an example, NORMALIZED FOR AMOUNT OF PROTEIN:
Lentils, cooked, 17.9g worth of protein:
Isoleucine 772mg, Leucine 1295 mg, Lysine 1247 mg, Methionine 152 mg

Chicken breast, cooked, 16.5g worth of protein:
Isoleucine 872mg, Leucine 1240mg, Lysine 1403mg, Methionine 457mg

"


it is funny that you come up with lentils, which is not a complete protein source, but who would have guessed, not a vegan, right?

source: usda nutrition database :D

It is also funny that your super chicken breast killing food contains a tons of carbohydrate, making it useless to build lean muscle, 60-70% of its calories comes from sugar/ch. Congratulations!! You got the vegan super food, that makes you fat and contains useless protein.

"Amino Acids in Lentils

Lentils are small, round, multicolored beans that have been used in traditional cuisines for centuries. According to the USDA's Food Nutrient Database, lentils contain over 50 percent of the daily value for the majority of the nine essential amino acids, but they only have about 0.15 grams of methionine per 1-cup serving. This is similar to the amino acid profile for other legumes such as kidney beans or black beans. Methionine is considered the "limiting" amino acid in lentils because once it has been used up, your body can't access the rest of the amino acids in the lentils you eat to make new tissues. This is the reason that, like other plant foods, lentils are regarded as a "low biological value" source of protein."

http://custommealplanner.com/foods/48/1000/protein/lentils/

Protein score:

Why Lentils got a protein quality rating of 29/100 and a protein quantity rating of 26/100
How protein dense is the food? Lentils has a protein density of 31% which means that 31% of the calories are from protein. Skinless grilled chicken breast has a protein density of about 80%, things like egg whites and isolated whey products have protein densities over 90%. With any protein density less than 60%, it becomes a challenge to get enough protein without going over your daily caloric budget and getting fat. If your primary protein source has a protein density of less than 50% then you are going to have to do *significant* amounts of daily cardio to burn off the extra calories if you dont want to increase bodyfat.
What is the amino acid profile of the food? Muscle cant be built unless *all* the essential amino acids are present at the instant they are needed. If doesnt matter how many essential amino acids are in your stomach, if you run out of just one then all protein synthesis stops. This is why amino acid profiles are so important, to make sure that you get the right balance of amino acids so that a maximum of muscle can be built with a minimum of calories

"So as we can see, they are actually almost the same, except methionine for example is way lower, which is like I've said, beneficial. "

yes yes yes it is just makes all the protein inside mean jackshit, but whatever floats your boat, I mean you know best eating over 60% of the calories from sugar to get an inferior protein source.
Good god, you really nailed it.

People, this is why you don't trust vegan dipshits with eating.
Thinking a bottom 30% run of the mill plant protein is in the same league with chicken breast. gg

Okay, Lacceh, I came to your head :D

uhm, no ty

it is funny that you come up with lentils, which is not a complete protein source

First of all I didn't "come up" with lentils, I could literally have used any example... Second, all plants are complete proteins as they all contain all 9 essential amino acids. You're making my job easy by spewing myths that have been debunked a million times. Literally go to any nutrition website and look up the amino acid content of foods. But no you prefer to stay in denial.

source: usda nutrition database :D

Did I miss something funny? Most websites, if not all of them, use the same USDA lab database. What are you even trying to imply?

It is also funny that your super chicken breast killing food contains a tons of carbohydrate, making it useless to build lean muscle, 60-70% of its calories comes from sugar/ch.

It's not a 'chicken breast killing food', why so defensive? I could've used ANY examples for comparison.
High carb is a positive thing, as you need very little protein, and you need the carbs for energy. Useless to build lean muscle? Empty assertion, detached from reality.

Congratulations!! You got the vegan super food, that makes you fat and contains useless protein.

What's your obsession with fat? Are you projecting again?
I ask once again, where are these fat vegans(apart from the illusion in your head).
Vegans have lowest BMI:
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/32/5/791+
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12833118
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/1366...nd_alcohol
Facts > your delusions.

Methionine is considered the "limiting" amino acid in lentils because once it has been used up, your body can't access the rest of the amino acids in the lentils you eat to make new tissues.

Says who? Your link has nothing to do with this quote.
I've literally just linked 3 studies above, proving that low methionine is preferable for health... http://www.esreality.com/post/2881862/vegan/#pid2882324
So try to pay attention.

http://custommealplanner.com/foods/48/1000/protein/lentils/

1) Why are you linking me a random website? 2) And most of all, your website claims(not that I care for their opinion), quote: "Why Lentils Is A Great Food For Bodybuilding, Fitness And Health: They call me Herr Beanmeister at sweat4health for a very good reason, its because I eat so many of them. All legumes, commonly called beans, are excellent sources of fiber, protein, and slow release complex carbs. They are the perfect combination of energy and protein for an active athlete"
Are you trying to argue against yourself? It's going well.

[...] you are going to have to do *significant* amounts of daily cardio to burn off the extra calories if you dont want to increase bodyfat.

Another empty assertion. Where to even begin. First of all, lower protein is a good thing, you need very little even for building muscle. Why don't you learn something ?
Excess protein is just a useless burden for the body, hardest to digest, hardest to convert into energy. All these fucking idiots taking in 200g or more per day are wrecking their kidneys. Rich Piana has just started a 80g/day diet from fucking white rice. Rich fucking Piana. Why do you think? Because he went for a check-up and his organ are getting fucked even tho he's been taking multiple medications to protect from organ damage, and he's only 45. High-protein is the dumbest shit ever, and you trying to argue that higher protein density is a good thing, is equally dumb.

Secondly. IF we are talking about BB stage competitions, where they dehydrate themselves, and go below 8% BF while taking exogenous steroids so their hormones don't get fucked, then yes you can probably take advantage of more concentrated foods. However that's all staged and artificial, unrealistic, just for the competition and photo shoot, and yes many have died while getting dry for stage. If you go below 8% BF as a natty your endocrine system gets fucked. BESIDES, if you really wanna do that, you still can AS VEGAN, just eat more concentrated plant foods or a plant protein isolate(pea, rice, soy), so again you have no valid point.

This is why amino acid profiles are so important

Thanks captain obvious, yet you still refuse to take 30 seconds to look up any plant food in the nutritional database and see with your own eyes that they containt all 9 essential aminos. Because you're a fucking idiot in denial.

Thinking a bottom 30% run of the mill plant protein is in the same league with chicken breast

I've already demonstrated above that they have similar amino ratios except the plant-based was more favorable for health. Your only argument that you try to push is that meat is more concentrated, which is hilariously enough, a negative.
Other than that, those lentils have all the beneficial phytonutrients and plenty of fiber, of which your meat has ZERO, which is why you're full of SHIT literally and figuratively, and go to the bathroom once a week, while I go 2-3 times a day and I spend more time peeing than pooing, naahm'sayin?

PS: basically you're getting a shitty package deal where your protein source is uselessly concentrated, and it also comes with cholesterol and SF which increases heart disease risk. Hope I don't have to link the studies again?
Here's a few more, specifically on chicken:
poultry increasing risk of prostate cancer
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21930800
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20042525

which is why you're full of SHIT literally and figuratively, and go to the bathroom once a week, while I go 2-3 times a day and I spend more time peeing than pooing, naahm'sayin?

sounds like you're even more full of shit

naameen?

Yea, not a single one of you has provided a valid argument or any credible citation so far. Wonder why.

We wonder why also

" why dont you learn something? "

1.posts a video with a fucking nobody with no shirt on
2. talks about credibility
3. spouts nonsense about kidneys
4...
5. Profit?


Why dont YOU learn something?

http://sci-fit.net/2017/collection-300-protein-studies/

your favorite part will be kidney function

http://sci-fit.net/2017/collection-300-protei...y_function

can you spell owned or you gonna post more half naked guys on youtube? and you talk about credibility? :DDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Lacceh, just tell me when my dick goes too deep I don't wanna cause unnecessary harm :D :D

Just pay attention to the wise man, and you might learn something about protein requirements.

Why are you linking me a collection of research that has nothing to do with my points?
Are you just desperately googling stuff? You did not even read these, right? (Right.)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25979491
It clearly states high protein intake is associated with problem(which _I_ have provided studies for, above).
Other than that it just says they're satiating. Nice.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/...3819.short
Again, you did not read any of these. Their daily protein intake was 80g. That's what they consider 'HIGH' and state it carried no adverse effects. That's not fucking HIGH! I hit 80-100g without trying, simply from 3 starchy main meals... You're just a joke dude.

Another.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12148098/
I quote: "Consumption of an LCHP diet for 6 weeks delivers a marked acid load to the kidney, increases the risk for stone formation, decreases estimated calcium balance, and may increase the risk for bone loss."
Are you trying to defeat yourself? Seriously I feel bad for you. This is why it's a waste of time talking to you. You're clueless. Come back when you're able to simply READ and interpret studies, until then, you should probably stop linking any.

there are 300 study there. That wise man should have his shirt on like other decent people.

The collection under kidney function clearly aimed to show that there is no problem with protein and healthy kidneys. I takes a special man to think otherwise :D

"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25979491
It clearly states high protein intake is associated with problem(which _I_ have provided studies for, above).
Other than that it just says they're satiating. Nice.
"
no, what is says is this:

However, although it is well accepted that a high-protein diet may be detrimental to individuals with existing kidney dysfunction, there is little evidence that high protein intake is dangerous for healthy individuals.

this little to no evidence you drum up into a certainty. And with straight face you tried to distort this :DD

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/...3819.short
Again, you did not read any of these. Their daily protein intake was 80g. That's what they consider 'HIGH' and state it carried no adverse effects. That's not fucking HIGH! I hit 80-100g without trying, simply from 3 starchy main meals... You're just a joke dude.

now you are debating what the definition of high according to the paper, just do it, nhanes is the us national survey. Starch is not protein though and you proved what you know about protein consumption with the lentil :D

The point is not the mean of the data man :D but that they did not see dose dependent problem in the population.
They did not eat 80g / day you moron, that is the calculated mean of their intake from the data set :D lolo :D you cant even read dude why do you even try to debate anything? :DDD
Why do you even act like you know what you are doing? Why are doing this in written form? Now everybody can see that you cant even comprehend what you read :/ How many times should I point out and humiliate you? :D
Who is the joke? :D isnt the vegan poser who dosent know what the mean is in a statistical data set ? hahaha :DDDDD

I takes someone delusional to think that these articles prove your point, when they clearly dont :DD

Diets higher in plant and animal protein, independent of other dietary factors, are associated with cardiometabolic benefits, particularly improved central adiposity, with no apparent impairment of kidney function.

You see? Can you read? at least it is not statistics :DDDD

I see you conveniently left out the third one with the body builders ? Why, I thought you liked that topic!

Here is a bonus:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1262767/

just to let you rest easy and it answers that huge 10 guy / some day study :D

because you are prone to misdirect now, and you are intentionally and unintentionally stupid, here is the thing:

Conclusion

Although excessive protein intake remains a health concern in individuals with pre-existing renal disease, the literature lacks significant research demonstrating a link between protein intake and the initiation or progression of renal disease in healthy individuals. More importantly, evidence suggests that protein-induced changes in renal function are likely a normal adaptative mechanism well within the functional limits of a healthy kidney.

also the survey paper closes with these lines (I just read the full version)

The argument that higher-protein diets cause a strain
on the kidneys because of transient or sustained increases in
GFR has never been translated to long-term disease burden in
individuals with normal renal function (41). Thus, WHO and
Institute of Medicine recommendations recognize higher-protein
diets as safe in individuals without CKD (3, 42).


and here you are stating with certainty that protein is how bad for the kidneys, poor WHO you should send them the shirtless grandpa, that will help them turn around!
I'm sure you can turn this on its head with some word gymnastics that looks good only in your head but written down it is closer to batshit crazy .. and show that what it really says that protein fucks up the kidneys ... "but really... I heard that from grandpa, who heard it from his grandpa, who also did not own any shirts or shoes and played the guitar...must be true... :/ big pharma wants every body builder to have kidney disease they wanna kill me and you too"


kisses. you crack me up :DD how dumb are you? :D

tl dr: people and this is why you should not believe when vegans talk about science or research. Not only they cant read, can't comprehend and their vegan filter distort everything even if it is written in plain language, but they even confuse basic statistical terms. Fear not, I'm here to own them to oblivion.

Oh really?
"It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics

what an illustrious academy you chose!!! They must be the paramount of civil... wait what? They are dietitians not researchers?
I wonder how reputable they are! They must be very steadfast in their values!

from wiki:

The Academy has faced controversy regarding corporate influence related to its relationship with the food industry and funding from corporate groups such as McDonald's, Coca-Cola,[5] Mars, and others.[6][7]



oh :/ Okay, continue..


that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful,

appropriately planned, which are most of you don't do, because you are not nutritionists just acting like one, you also don't know fuck about it if you suggest fucking lentils as a protein source, we talked about body building just to remind you :D.. and I wonder why you need a plan... maybe because it is unnatural and unreliable way to eat and it causes deficiencies?

Plant-based diets are more
environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage.

Fuck cares about environment in this context, but I guess they are professional civilians, I wonder how the environmentalism stacked up while they took the money from Coke and co :D

Vegans need reliable sources of vitamin B-12, such as fortifiedfoods or supplements."

Some Clue in the last sentence, even in the first. Your own fucking source underlines the deficiency I mentioned. Congrats man. Way to eat "healthy"

from wiki: [...]

Uhh, here is the actual full quote: "In 2011, the Foundation received corporate contributions totaling around $1.2 million from organizations such as Nestle, Kelloggs, Mars, Inc Coca-Cola and the National Cattlemen's Beef Association,[1] as well as a $500,000 donation industrial food giant General Mills to promote healthy eating for kids.[19]"
So, they are promoting a vegan diet because they are getting donations from the beef association, right?
Or, they are promoting a vegan diet because targeting a health-conscious 1-2% tops of the entire population is a great-business strategy, right? :D Is that what you're saying?
I personally don't give fuck about their opinion anyways, I already know what works. It's only for you who tend to cry for citation, well there is your citation of a full scientific paper, so deal with it.

Fuck cares about environment in this context

Yea who cares, all ocean life dead in a few decades, rainforests cut down, middle-east uninhabitable in a few decades due to increased temperature, etc. etc. Yea who cares, let's all be irresponsible fucking manchilds like you and fuck it up for everybody and other species too.

Your own fucking source underlines the deficiency I mentioned.

Nothing to do with diet, already explained B12 above in detail - you are taking B12 Cobalt supplement thru livestock's body, fact - won't repeat myself. You're just being deliberately obtuse.

PS: Another little fun fact for you, since we are talking about influence of donors:
American Diabetes Association, American Cancer Society, American Heart Association, all taking large amounts of money from the biggest producers and sellers of meat and dairy industry products, that cause the very diseases they are supposedly fighting against.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5541848/

"consumption of high energy density meat with minimal digestion difficulties:"
Minimal digestion difficulties? So you're saying there are difficulties, but they are minimal?

I compared to the predator of course which need to lay down to conserve energy and process the RAW food.

"they cooked the meat"
Humans predate cooking and cooking fire. Nice try.

I'm posting sources, and you don't read them. I will get some material out of them to show you pointed out something insignificant or rather you were intentionally stupid:

Early Meat-Eating Human Ancestors Thrived While Vegetarian Hominin Died Out

mkay thats just a title but It may suggest something, haha
how unfortunate. :D

Past research suggested prehuman hominids such as australopithecines may have eaten some meat. However, it is the regular consumption of meat that often is thought to have triggered major changes in the human lineage, the genus Homo, with this high-energy food supporting large human brains.

Just like what I wrote, hmmm I may gave this as source already but you did not read it just barfed up something green and wrote the first thing you thought of

Given its importance to human evolution, scientists want to learn when eating flesh became a regular activity. Stone tools dating back about 2.6 million years to Gona in Ethiopia are often considered the earliest signs of the human lineage butchering meat, and contentious evidence suggests butchery may have existed at least 3.4 million years ago. "Despite this ample evidence, some archaeologists still argue that meat was eaten sporadically and played a minor role in the diet of those hominins," Domínguez-Rodrigo said. (Hominins include humans and their relatives after they split from the chimpanzee lineage.)

Now shards of a child's skull found in Olduvai Gorge in Tanzania suggest the infant suffered from a form of malnutrition seen in meat-poor diets. This hints that meat-eating was normally a regular part of the human diet at the time.

So, what the fuck you are talking about?
According to the common sense: deficiencies , and we have even anthropological evidence about, wait for it, deficiencies. Pity back then they did not have the high quality advice you and gstructor provide here on esr

If vegan eating is so natural and not at all a dipshit eating fashion can you tell me how early humans, spreading through all climates on the world, starting from Africa, with different indigenous flora in every couple of thousand miles could have planned their nutrition to avoid deficiencies, to have healthy babies while having no reliable knowledge whatsoever about nutrition (just like you) and no Tesco to buy arcane food from all over the globe including supplement tablets or knowing the plans of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics ?

I compared to the predator of course which need to lay down to conserve energy and process the RAW food.

I don't give a fuck what you're comparing it to, and humans are not predators. You are not making a coherent point. Just admit that there indeed are digestion difficulties, which you tried to shrug off as minimal.

I'm posting sources, and you don't read them.

1) Yea you're posting random articles 2) What the fuck is there to read? Humans long predate fire, cooking food is a RELATIVELY small part of human evolution. It's just a fact. Meaning... for a very long time, humans didn't cook anything. Yet you are trying to argue that cooking meat 'pre-digests it' blablabla.

However, it is the regular consumption of meat that often is thought to have triggered major changes in the human lineage, the genus Homo, with this high-energy food supporting large human brains.

Scientists agree that cooked starches led to increased brain capacity due to increase in caloric intake:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/articl...rates.html
http://www.sciencenutshell.com/starchy-carboh...ns-bigger/
See, I can google shit too. Who knows if it's true or not? About as credible as your articles, so I guess we'll never know.

and contentious evidence suggests butchery may have existed at least 3.4 million years ago.

And? You are trying to argue against something I never claimed. I don't really give a fuck what they ate, you brought this up. Besides, archeology will always find more things on meat simply due to them taking much longer to break down, than plant material... pretty simple. Still there's plenty of evidence for plant consumption too, such as ancient gladiators and soldiers preferring grains and legumes over meat for performance, look it up.
But really I'm just not interested in what they ate, why bring it up. And, your own quote states: "Despite this ample evidence, some archaeologists still argue that meat was eaten sporadically and played a minor role in the diet of those hominins"

According to the common sense: deficiencies , and we have even anthropological evidence about, wait for it, deficiencies.

Yes, deficiencies due to FAMINE. Nice job.

"If vegan eating is so natural and not at all a dipshit eating fashion can you tell me how early humans, spreading through all climates on the world"
Eating fresh fruits and tender leaves just like chimpanzees, is quite natural, yes. We are inherently from a tropical climate, the only reason we can exist in colder climates is due to modern civilization: housing, heating, clothing, transportation of food, etc. So, you CAN live there but you're not really supposed to and it's sub-optimal. Just like you CAN eat meat like early humans eating meat during famine, but it does not mean it's an optimal source of food. But we are not early humans, I for one live in the PRESENT, which is why I don't give a fuck about all this, it doesn't concern me.

And lastly, if you think heart disease from meat is a new thing, think again: "Atherosclerosis was common in four preindustrial populations including preagricultural hunter-gatherers. Although commonly assumed to be a modern disease, the presence of atherosclerosis in premodern human beings raises the possibility of a more basic predisposition to the disease."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23489753

not famine, you straight can't read, eat more carrots maybe you can see the letters better :DDD

Would you just skip trying to distort what the source says?
Or you just wanna go full retard? :D


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now shards of a child's skull found in Olduvai Gorge in Tanzania suggest the infant suffered from a form of malnutrition seen in meat-poor diets.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

you are so funny when you try to be dishonest with a written fucking text man :DDD ahaha

I also like your freudian slip that meat poor diets mean famine :D lolo

you provide comedy with every move of yours :D true vegan!

1) I don't give a fuck about your random articles, or what early humans ate.
2) You ignore 90% of my points and pick one that you THINK you can sort of reply to, and still end up looking like a fool.
3) There is no reason to develop any deficiencies on a plant-based, or any diet for that matter. The reason for the deficiencies was famine, in other words THEY DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH SHIT TO EAT.
4) If meat helped them bridge the gap during a famine, that's fine by me since it was for survival, I don't give a fuck. Going to the supermarket and paying other ppl to breed and slaughter for you isn't survival. And I've already explained climates.

In conclusion, you are a fucking idiot.

1- im sure you dont, you are beaten into pulp with them
2. you are so wrong on some many accounts I cherry pick those which are most stupid, I'm not gonna get into your cancer talk because it is beyond the scope and you do it to change the subject: im not gonna let you do that
3. your own source said that it has to be planned well and needs vitamin fortification and supplementation man :D
4. yes, the whole article is about meat and human evolution, how eating meat brought us tools to butcher, helped us to learn intergroup coordination, communication while hunting, usage of fire, things you dont do if you eat on the treetop :D

in conclusion, I raped you harder than anyone. Please do a point by point :D

ps: post more shirtless dudes, it really brings out the color in your arguments, the credibility is high

Laceh, can you spell "I got owned 100 times over and back while the other guy even used my own sources" bwhahaha

I told you didn't I

copy paste this , alborz

btw alborz you can eat my ass
nothing vegan in there so you know that it will be nutritious
I shit out more complete proteins than you found in any plant
haha

https://media.giphy.com/media/L6kUljeZejxMQ/giphy.gif

Laceh, can you spell "I got owned 100 times over and back while the other guy even used my own sources" bwhahaha

You sound like a child, stuck in a grown man's body, flailing his arms and yelling nonsense. Fool. You are the one who has been unable to spell my name, or anything else for that matter. Because you lack the mental capacity to do anything that takes more intellect than snorting your whey powder. Which is why I take no joy in handing your ass to yourself, I just have zero tolerance to ignorance and bullshit, that's all.

You are emotionally(and perhaps financially) attached to your position - just like Tripleight who ended up ragequitting above - which is why you are acting the way you are and ignoring facts, science, reality.
Me, I do not have this problem. If somehow I got strong evidence tomorrow that plants are unhealthy or whatever, then I'd just accept it and move on. It can happen but it's highly unlikely at this point. :) Don't get attached to anything in life or too invested. You probably sell whey protein to gullible stupid teens or something, who knows. I understand it, gotta make a living. Gotta tell them kidz they need 200g protein/day for gainz.

And just for the hell of it, here's a little taste of reality that you are so detached from:

Further replies from you won't be necessary, save both of us the time, and you the embarrassment. NONE of you so far have been able to raise a coherent argument against a plant-based diet, or provide a credible study, while I have provided plenty. You just try to mock veganism and make ad hominem attacks. end of

this is so dumb, haha :DDD

I'm payed by big pharma / meat industry to post anonymously on the internet against vegans while I yet to say anything personally about the protein requirements :D Who knows I started the thread with another account :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

and you talk about credibility after lentil and shirtless grandpa :DDDDDDDDDD ahahaha

wanna get payed though :/

raged?

if you want your part of the smackdown pie, you are just a coherent argument away every time . In your case, I go with even incoherent.
It is best if we lower the expectations beforehand, look what happened to lentilLaccah who acted like he knows something. poor dude

Chace, majestic, conquers the abdicated throne.

So many skinny jeans rustled from one post, haha. I think I saw a pair of non-prescription glasses get thrown too.

I have been devoted hardcore vegan for almost a decade but this thread has made me doubt my dietary choices, mainly due to lacceh and gstructor getting manhandled by facts and logic while they themselves only provide arbitrary/filtered pullouts from their own sources.

That is because lacceh is talking about a whole foods plant based diet and dre is too stupid to know the difference. dre is talking about vegans who's incorporate a lot of oils, salt, sugar, and refined sugar into there diet. So yes they are both right they are just talking about different things. If you are a vegan who eats junk food like chips, fruit drinks like orange juice, soda, or processed food then it honestly doesn't matter you are going to be just as unhealthy. The idea behind this is to cut out unhealthy food an replace it with healthy food and I know for a fact legumes are a much healthier source of protein. There is no debating this, it is fact.

guy you're replying to is just a lousy troll(like 99.8% of users here).

So yes they are both right they are just talking about different things.

no, not exactly... dre is just dumb, and too invested in his beliefs, which is why it's a waste of time trying to use logic, reason, and evidence on him.

junkfood vegans are actually rare... even if you eat junky, still gonna be miles healthier than animal products. but most vegans are health conscious, it just comes with the territory...
so when I say plant-based I literally just mean plant-based. relatively clean eating was a given, since we were discussing health and nutrition... and veganism itself is an ethical ideology, not a diet.

I agree with your junkfood vegan comments. I didn't mean you were both right. I was distracted. What I meant was you can sustain life with both but one is much healthier but some might like food so much they may take the risk.

Vegan diets are perfection, the only thing they lack however is egg whites, the purest, best form of protein known to man.

Remember if man makes it don't eat it and if it tastes good spit it out.

Jack LaLanne !

50 years ahead of his time

Even today he's still far ahead of his time, people arguing about keto diets and all that shite.

I like his achivements and he was pretty much straight told us before the obesity epidemic that processed sugary foods are bad.

His achievments are amazing

can't believe at 45 years old he did a thousand chin ups and a thousand push ups in just under an hour and 22 minutes.

I've no idea how many I could do within that time but I know it wouldn't be anywhere near that, I've done the one hundred pull up challenge in 20 minutes and by the end of it my calluses were bleeding.

I caught a rare interview on YouTube where he claimed he was able to shoulder press 120 pound dumbells at just 150 pound bodyweight, incredible.

It is so nice to reduce Lacehh to a raging incoherent moron from simple vegan moron :D
He dosen't reply anymore to points just brings up silly shit that is nothing to do with his failings as if I took dishonest nutritionist academies to the table not him..and he lists 3 more , why do I care ? :D they dont put more amino acids into lentils LOLO
How deep can you go, should I next tell you how much protein a body builder needs, what is the difference between carbohydrates and protein, because you seem deeply confused about those issues as well or that even vegan bodybuilders presumably use roids which adds another level of ambiguity- we don't know if the same vegans had eat normal diets would look better because they won't gonna change back under study conditions (you know being vegan is kinda a belief so they wont gonna hop on the meat bandwagon just for a research) or while they eat plants they drink whey because they consider it vegan (no animal was killed for milk they say, who knows), or just giving themselves a leeway like with roids, etc... just posting about them, I know they exist lol :D Unlike your solid knowledge about nutrition. Or body builders. Or how to conduct a comparative nutritional study. Or your logic when you think that posting about them proves anything relevant :D Your logic lol
I told you I'm working in this industry why do you want me to fuck you up, hm? Let me tell you precisely: I train and give nutrition advice to competitors, not high level ones, but they compete, it is not my full occupation and it never will be for monetary reasons but it is with me, I like to do it. I had my successes and I'm way past the level of your kind. I read multiple pages about nutrition and training every day (but not from the nutrition academy you posted but from real researchers, just for you today I did skim a paper from around 1970 that analyzed the chemical properties of different lentil types) I train as well, I have friends who work full time in health and fitness, I watch conferences, interviews, read fresh research material, every now and then I talk to researchers about them. I know the news and what we thought 5 years ago and why. I was there when we thought you need to eat right after the exercise :D I was there when Aragon and schoenfeld fucked that up I did read that paper as soon it came out, was a big splash. I know how many methods we have to measure the muscles protein uptake, why they thought bcaa supplements were king, how leucine stole the show, I can go as deep as kinases. Many things changed, things that your moron kind dont follow. Not that it is my full occupation, but I know a helluva lot more than you sir that is shockingly clear (not to mention the other dullards here talking about protein with a knowledge that last were hip in 1999). I'm the fucking cutting edge compared to your hobby half baked unhinged vegan ass. And I really can't take you seriously after you compared lentil to chicken breast :D ahahaha dude

Do you have even a shred of self-awareness to realize how childish and obnoxious you are? I doubt it. Is anybody supposed to take you seriously?
Anyway last reply, all has been said already, and you have overstayed your welcome.

What you are too stupid(or dishonest) to see is that even if, for the sake of example, every single vegan bodybuilder was on steroids, it would simply mean that plant-based nutrition is adequate for muscle building. And if you try to argue that every single one of them is secretly eating meat or something to that effect, then you are simply being ridiculous and you know it, especially that these people document their journey, do daily vlogs with eating, etc. You realize this I'm sure, and you also realize, since you claim to know the industry, that steroids just boost protein synthesis, you still need to take in protein, which you apparently can do from plants as well. Are you following this simple logic, or do I need to make it even easier for you? Basically, you're just being deliberately obtuse and twisting things, since your comments desperately lack any useful substance.

Yea exactly like I said, you are financially invested, and probably sell gullible newbs whey protein, supplements, and all kinds of overpriced useless marketing crap. That doesn't make you knowledgeable. Training ppl as a hobby doesn't make you knowledgeable. Getting results is SIMPLE: you stimulate the muscle, you ingest protein, you sleep. It's a fucking joke. Oh you read stuff and talk to people? How amazing, so everything you read and hear must be true, right? What the fuck do you think I've been doing for nearly a decade? That's right, research.
Getting results is not hard, why the fuck do you think athletes who look good and perform relatively well drop dead at 50 from a poor diet heavy on animal products? Because arterial plaque build-up still happens. Athleticism and health are two separate things, and we were discussing health and nutrition specifically, which you had no clue about, failed to provide credible citations and failed to refute my arguments.

Again, you just fail to follow very basic logic during any arguments or exchanges, you fail to understand that concentrated protein isn't a positive thing, you fail to understand that there are other nutrients and substances the protein comes with, you claim to give people nutrition advice yet don't know the basics about Vitamin D & B12, which begs the question of why the fuck are you giving advice without adequate knowledge and what the fuck have you been doing if you claim to have been researching... you link me studies that don't back up your point or state the opposite, because you didn't even read them or don't know how to interpret and analyze them... need I go on? No, I needn't. Case closed, forever.

"Do you have even a shred of self-awareness to realize how childish and obnoxious you are?"

Women love it though :/

" Is anybody supposed to take you seriously?"

I dont post a shirtless old man rambling on youtube as my source :D
I don't post shitty "academies" caught red handed as my sources
I dont post dailymail as my source
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Poten...le_sources)
I dont think that lentil is comparable to chicken breast
I dont think protein is bad for the kidneys
I don't try to distort plain language conclusions to support my point

But you do :D

I know what the statistical mean means when I'm reading a research :D

But you dont :DDD

So, who should take You seriously? :))


"Anyway last reply, all has been said already, and you have overstayed your welcome."

Overstayed? No way. If I remember right you were keen on triplelight leaving the previous thread. We will meat :D again lentil lacceh. Whenever you try to give some silly advice I will shot it down because you are hilariously wrong in almost everything.

"What you are too stupid(or dishonest) to see .."

no. stupidity and dishonesty is your table :) you need it :)

"is that even if, for the sake of example, every single vegan bodybuilder was on steroids, it would simply mean that plant-based nutrition is adequate for muscle building."

it is adequate for muscle building exactly the way it is adequate for living or as adequate as masturbating in construction worker gloves instead of having sex with a women (not that vegans understand the last comparison), but it is adequate


"And if you try to argue that every single one of them is secretly eating meat or something to that effect, then you are simply being ridiculous and you know it,"

no, I don't presume every or even one of them eats meat, I wouldn't care and I never said anything like that. But these people are competing on looks and if they are on roids then a whey powder is not a big step, or is it? Or, just simply taking twice the amount of plant protein powder, which was in my sources you did not read and now you argue against it unnecessarily. :D and contrary to me, you don't know when you are ridiculous :DDDD
It would be easier if you just read and not imagine my position you dimwit, it is right in the first post :DDDD

"You realize this I'm sure, and you also realize, since you claim to know the industry, that steroids just boost protein synthesis, you still need to take in protein, which you apparently can do from plants as well. "

yes :D and at best you can use a powder form,but twice as many, as I sourced it :D Dont you remember, you dunderhead?

"Are you following this simple logic, or do I need to make it even easier for you?"

Please no. Not simpler than this :D :D you couldn't, I hope !!!! this is already retardation

" Basically, you're just being deliberately obtuse and twisting things, since your comments desperately lack any useful substance."

I posted hundreds of links from researchers you post from shirtless youtubers and daily mail, and you let this slip out ahahaha :DDDDD


"Yea exactly like I said, you are financially invested, and probably sell gullible newbs whey protein, supplements, and all kinds of overpriced useless marketing crap."

ahahaha :DDD you are priceless. Can you tell me how I sell it in your imagination? Do I have a big retail system or just a small shop, or people buy from me personally in the gym's parking lot? pls pls let me do the retail thing :D Wanna get mad cash :/

That doesn't make you knowledgeable.

maybe it dosen't make me more knowledgeable, but then how I bled you dry? :D

" Getting results is SIMPLE: you stimulate the muscle, you ingest protein, you sleep. It's a fucking joke."

I thought about this sentence. It may be the stupidest thing you have ever wrote :D Thousands of researchers health and fitness professionals work on this simple field, and there is continuous improvement about hows and whys as they refine microbiological measurement methods. We still don't know what is the best training protocol for hypertrophy for example and it is 2017. It takes a vegan to think that building a good physique is simple, but then again, "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" :D

"What the fuck do you think I've been doing for nearly a decade? That's right, research."

thats admirable. I mean, you do this for a decade and still confuse what statistical mean is and source something from daily mail and rambling old guys? Because it that is what you are capable of, then I'm sorry to tell you but you just don't have the intellectual capacity for this :D hahaha Btw, when you found the youtube grandpa on the timeline ? about how much arduous year you spent until you discovered him as the fountain of knowledge? And could you buy him a shirt? asdasdasda :DDD

"Getting results is not hard, why the fuck do you think athletes who look good and perform relatively well drop dead at 50 from a poor diet heavy on animal products? Because arterial plaque build-up still happens."

ye, athletes die at 50 :DDDDDDD ahahaha :DDDD and you even made up a disease and a reason :FFFFFF thats awesome

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4534511/


just for a final fuck you , a recent meta analysis, which is the highest quality field work:DD because you read selectively, I will share the conclusion with you:

"Therefore, the majority of the studies included in this review were generally of high quality (e.g., representative sample sizes, age- and sex-matched control groups from the general population, etc.).
A majority of studies included in this review reported superior lifespan longevity outcomes for elite athletes compared to age- and sex-matched controls from the general population and other athletes.
In conclusion,[..]this review highlights mortality trends among elite athletes and concludes that participation in elite sport is generally favorable to lifespan longevity. "

How can you be wrong so many times? :DDD dude :DDD

You seriously won any argument ever with this little capacity to decide what is wrong and right?

And again you mention credibility :DD ahahaha

Dont close the case please. You are a comedic genius. :DDD

A real clown, in the good sense of the word. You make me cry tears from bliss. I could write a poem about how misguided and delusional you are :)

hashtag ownedagain

LAccejh I wanted to ask you, is there a secret vegan handshake or you just reach into each others ass and then smell your fingers?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOX71eNNC-g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtqJCUyXf88

some vegan microcosm there <3

rofl

you will never get my steaks... NEVER just try and stop me communists. Vegtables are a european communist slavic invetion (but only of the stpud commonist slavic like "moldovaa and gypsies ok??
which is why any rde red pure blooded american will eat the perfect g-d fearing food which is called STEAKS hunted by our texas rangers =] our dear texas rangers who create the steak raw parts .

I'm not sure if anyone noticed but that's how Lacceh entered this thread:

Comment #3 @ 06:40 CEST, 20 July 2017 >>
(Link, iMsg, Reply)
By Hungary Lacceh
why do you care what they think



XD

he is soo smooth, man

he gives no fucks at all

he chillz

XD

Yea? So? That was obviously directed at OP, as I wasn't sure if he was serious about it or just making a kind of bait thread. And yea, I do not care what any of you primitive fucks think, apart from the very few intelligent users left on this site, who can actually benefit from my knowledge I have provided for free and use it to their own advantage. You're welcome.
I just simply enjoyed crushing all the bullshit claims in this thread with facts and scientific evidence. It's so fucking easy, trust me. Defending a healthy, environmentally friendly plant-based diet, and an ethical ideology that seeks to reduce unnecessary suffering, is truly child's play.

You are just trying to take a cheap shot at me for some reason, probably because of your utter failure here. You never got back to me on that, curious is it not.

why do you care what gienon thinks

Jesus christ you spread your bullshit for free?
How generous !
Pity all your "evidence" pointed to one thing only: You are a retard vegan just like the rest. Is there anything you wanna link ?
Like another old hippy on youtube? :DDD
Something from a tabloid newspaper they sell on the corners for three fifty?
What is this knowledge you are talking about?
Because all I saw is misunderstanding and when pushed you fly into denial and distort and rephrase research conclusions instead of copy pasting them out :D LOLO

Curious indeed.

Although I don't blame you. You probably had to top up on blood sugar since the previous meal 2 hours earlier and then simply forgot to respond.

I wonder what my reason was though... Maybe you're not too interesting to talk to, despite the sandals.

Your link has absolutely no relevance to this thread, mine does.
Are you going to answer the question bro? Do you think that slicing a carrot is the same as slicing a hen's throat? Do you think that accidental insect and small animal deaths are the same as systematically breeding and slaughtering 60 billion land animals a year? Would you slaughter animals yourself if you had to do it in order to eat any meat, or do you prefer to pay other people in the industry to breed and slaughter them for you, like a real 'man' ?

Your little jabs, or attempts shall I say, are so cute bro. xD I have a very steady blood sugar thanks to slow-release complex starches and regulation from lots of fiber, unlike animal proteins which result in a sharp insulin spike. Thanks for the laugh, though.

It's relevant. Your gloating is out of place when you do the exact same thing.

And on top of that, I did a far better job replying to you than you did to me. I looked up the report that your little "62 people" snippet came from and used the source to show how your point was misleading in one aspect (about there being those same 62 people who just own half the world year in year out) and totally untrue in another (that rich get richer and poor get poorer)

Your argument was "animals eat plants, we eat animals, why dont we eat plants directly huuuuuuuuuuuuh?", which ignored the question of caloric density and nutrient density (fruit and grains aren't nutrient dense as compared to veggies and organ meats).

Your vegan-echo-chamber trained mind will probably immediately think that I'm cheering for the current warped food industry and washing down a burger with Pepsi but hold your horses amigo (or hold your lentils rather): it's my preferred diet that's actually plant-based. Yours should be called plant-only or vegan but that immediately reeks of sandals and smelly pits to an average person so it's more convenient for crusaders to dub it as plant-based.

If you want to make a case that eating animals is bad, make a case how vegan is more nutritionally and environmentally sound than a paleo diet, which is closer to a ceteris paribus comparison, since paleo takes veganism and substitutes organic meat and eggs for legumes and grains.

If you want to declare veganism a success because it gives better results than what an average 2017 person eats, just shut up and stop wasting anyone's time with what is obvious.

What are you saying? You type a lot and say nothing.

Your vegan-echo-chamber trained mind will probably immediately think that I'm cheering for the current warped food industry and washing down a burger with Pepsi but hold your horses amigo (or hold your lentils rather): it's my preferred diet that's actually plant-based. Yours should be called plant-only or vegan but that immediately reeks of sandals and smelly pits to an average person so it's more convenient for crusaders to dub it as plant-based.

What is the point? Sandals and smelly pits? What the fuck is your point. Seriously.
And it's called plant-based because... it is literally plant-based. Moron.

If you want to make a case that eating animals is bad

I'm not making any case. I was refuting the bullshit claims in this thread. That's it.
You addressed me in the first place, by trying to somehow mock me, and now you are acting as if I were a vegan evangelist who just barged in here and started preaching for no reason.

If you want to declare veganism a success because it gives better results than what an average 2017 person eats, just shut up and stop wasting anyone's time with what is obvious.

I'm not declaring it anything, fuck you talking about.
Oh is it really that obvious? When only 1-2% tops of the population is vegan? Is it really that obvious when you and everybody else keep denying the environmental, health, and ethical aspects over and over? I don't think so.

edit: and since you seem to be a little confused, let me help you out:
Veganism - an ethical ideology that seeks to reduce the unnecessary suffering and exploitation of non-human animals
Plant-based - a diet that consists of plant foods and no animal-derived products

Anything else beyond, that you may attach to these terms - like the vegan hippie stereotype you are trying to push on me - is just a delusion in your head.

I don't even get the smelly armpit thing. The cleaner you eat and the cleaner your body is, the less body odor you exude. Eating only raw you have basically no odor. Smelling is not normal, it's what you put into your body. Quite logical, but I wouldn't expect you to know anything about these things.

"Oh is it really that obvious? When only 1-2% tops of the population is vegan? Is it really that obvious when you and everybody else keep denying the environmental, health, and ethical aspects over and over? I don't think so."

I don't think I've ever read anything this stupid. Are you only interacting with other foodies and talk about different kinds of lettuce? People eat whatever is tasty and convenient and healthy is not important. No wonder few of them eat vegan, since it's inconvenient and tastes like grass. Go out on the street and ask people which they think is healthier - vegan or the modern diet.

"Veganism - an ethical ideology that seeks to reduce the unnecessary suffering and exploitation of non-human animals"

By not washing themselves.

I mocked you because in my book anyone who starts with "why do you care what they think" and then proceeds to make it his life's work to prove to some random dude how wrong his view is, deserves to be mocked. Don't get too hot under your collar. I'll still eat flesh and you'll still eat leaves when all is said and done.

Would you slaughter animals yourself if you had to do it in order to eat any meat, or do you prefer to pay other people in the industry to breed and slaughter them for you, like a real 'man' ?

Fuck yeah I prefer other people do it for me. But push comes to shove I'd kill a cow readily, their deliciousness outweighs their cuteness for me. But I don't see where you're heading with this one, are you picking your own vegetables now?

So you're a psychopath who has no issue slaughtering other sentient beings, processing and chopping up the carcass to eat the flesh and body parts. Good to know, although I suspected as much from your other comments so far.

are you picking your own vegetables now?

1) Vegetables are not sentient beings and don't have a central nervous system.
2) I actually have to eat them(plants) for survival, whereas meat is not required for survival. You only eat it out of habit, tradition, apathy, ignorance.
3) The meat you eat was fed plants, usually soy and corn, a lot of them. So you are contributing on both levels - the animal's death and wasting a ton of plants. Nice job.

Classic meat-eater fail.

In other words you wanted to say "Sorry, Nzr0, I wasn't going anywhere with that, I'm just so used to spewing shit(both figuratively and literally) that I put the autopilot on and let it rip. I was hoping that would be enough to distract you from me not having a point".

Why is the criteria sentience not higher (human) level abstract thought and reasoning or the potential for it? This sentience nonsense wouldn't be a thing if vegans actually read a little about both physics and psychology.

Because if evil meat-eaters didn't enslave cows and pigs they would be reading books and creating art like all their wild brothers and sisters do. It's only the ones bred for it that do nothing but eat and shit all day long.

I have read into that topic and I think I'm sharing the position you outlined there.

This message was pure comedy on many levels, i pray the invisible hand of the market that gienerd will respond to this lmao

nzr0 don't delete your comment

"If it tastes good spit it out" isn't stupid at all, I was quoting the late great Jack Lalanne who basically pioneered what we know about exercise and nutrition. His mantra was that if man made it don't eat it, foods that taste good, that are artificially sweetened are bad for you, that's the message that he spread.

Adding context changes it. But without context it is stupid because taste and smell is the way our body tells us what is ok to eat. Even if it might be bad for you long term. Not to mention that even then it's not inherently the food that is bad but the addictive behavior it enables because it tastes good.

Sometimes I eat cookie dough and after the fifth or sixth sampling it tastes more like shit. If I keep eating it I feel ill. Then I notice when I eat carbs too much my appetite is much higher and more intense when I avoid carbs. The body knows when it's bad but the brain can't always be sure.

All about that ulbe herring.

This is my favorite full natty canola oil free vegan gaming community <3 you guys

I'm always surprised by the amout of liftbros on these nerd sites.

Why not put some life into this topic? It is about vegans :D :D

Todays star link :

https://www.researchgate.net/blog/post/human-...rt-disease

BTW, how stupid is the op?
Meat causes cancer? :DDD
Do you realize that they found some relationship between red meat and its preparation ?

https://examine.com/nutrition/does-red-meat-cause-cancer/

Do you know there are multiple types of meat? And you can prepare them a million kind of ways?

:D

Or should I say because tobacco causes cancer and a plant derivative, alcohol causes a serious addiction, cocain says hello, so plants what kill you?

:D Thats a kind of sweeping generalization only a vegan brain can believe about meat.
Don't you see why you are ridiculed?
I love how you guys think in allcaps news headlines , have zero concern for details but keep thinking you know more.. No, you are only more misguided by trash knowledge than the general populi.
Learning to misunderstand is not more knowledge.. it is more misunderstanding.

So you want to pay 50 dollars for your dinner every night good for you. There is no disputing that plant based whole foods are much healthier they don't contain cholesterol and fats that clog your arteries. This isn't science or anything this is common fucking sense. Don't be stupid because you are addicted to bad foods.

I think you must update your knowledge buddy, otherwise you gonna come off as stupid, not me.

This cholesterol ship is slowly leaving

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22037012

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26109578

But people like you, who rely on television getting their deep knowledge, keep spouting outdated shit.

I heard about this common sense in vids by guys that talk about fake moon landing, 911 inside job , earth is flat, vegetarians etc. Knowledge and data trumps it any day.
if you dont know shit it is your last resort, right?
You people act like you have patent on it but even Jehovah's witnesses insist they have common sense, think over that.

Have you looked at this thread? How dare you even talk to me?
I took out all your vegan friends already, even the vegan pope himself on esr got a shotgun blast into his flowery ass
Cholesterol hahaha
Fuck off xd

I don't believe in any of that shit you said after common sense and I don't think they are at all those all need you take to take a huge leap past common sense into lunacy. I tried this diet and I feel healthier end of story. I am not saying this is the perfect diet. For me my body likes it and I am listening to my body. I just don't see what these fats and cholesterol do for your body except make you feel bad. Eating a whole foods plant based diet everything I eat serves a purpose for my health and I just simply couldn't say that eating a traditional diet.

common sense means shit
thats why it is common
you are just as good as the information you use to start the line of reasoning:
garbage in garbage out


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqGt0YV1AMQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v80C-_Zf41Q

feelz also don't matter

Experiments with asthmatic patiets for example demonstrate this quite nicely:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/asthma-place...-patients/

" I feelz gud " while lung function is in shambles, listen to body lol
Feelz is not reality but little minds need to hold on to something to cope with the world

if you have no knowledge you need the feelz to guide you.
it is also easier to acquire than knowledge, you just like everyone else, you have it at hand always , the feelz, like a woman

feelz good to eat mommys food
if you are japanese, home food prolly feelz better than european shit
if you are from india, spicy shit feelz better than cardboard tasting western food
even food portion size feelz different

etc

even smoking feelz good


feelz

fuck feelz

be a fucking man, dont feelz anything positive
only spite

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PQ6335puOc

I mean feels good for my body. I feel healthier. And your dumb if hacking your lungs out feels good and healthy to you.

What clogs arteries? Please learn that and don't say plaque build up, learn how that forms.

Btw when I go to the restaurant, I leave more tip than you spent , cheap vegan hippy

That is very good to hear. I am glad you are doing well. I am pretty cheap and very liberal and chill so I may be considered a hippy I guess. I am not a vegan. I don't care to much about animals beyond what is best for the earth and the people inhabiting it.

you are a hippy all right, being all polite

grow a dick

BTW, sorry for kicking your teeth in while you are down...


I'm that type of guy :/

Chill bruh, it's ESR.
Don't try to outretard it.

I don't give respite
No need for introduction
I know this site from 2001
never remember passwords

EAT MEAT LIKE A MAN NOT POTATS LIKE ROMANIAN GYPSIES!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28777971

Depression among vegetarian men, prolly because of deficiencies :)

Da feelz ofc is best on vegetarian diets :)

That is vegetarian. I do not advise a vegetarian diet because it is pretty unhealthy. Going vegetarian people are going to go to the highest calorie foods which are mostly fats and dairy. That is why a whole foods plant based diet is much healthier. I used an application to make sure I was getting all my nutrients and I was over 100 percent in all of them for the first three days that is when I stopped monitoring them because I realized it was near impossible for me to have deficiencies on this diet. But I do agree some people are dumb and go on diets like this without learning what they should eat.

Oh shit, you used an app? Well that settles it then, I bet it was prescribed by your doctor too. High calorie foods are bad, huh? But what if I'm not a 1.5m chick with all the free time to eat grass and shit all day long? What if I'm not too stupid to be able to loose weight or be healthy while eating animal products? Or be "problem" free? The quotes are there because if you had a real problem you would have gone to a fucking doctor instead of changing your lifestyle based on some hipster bullshit. I'm glad you feel better, but so do control groups taking placebos. Food for thought.

I would be very suspicious of things like that, in theory you would be much happier on a vegetarian diet and have a lot more energy since meat is harder to digest than eggs or milk.

You'd have a lot more energy with the low calorie diet? Oh that's some amazing logic right there. The reason you'd be happier on a vegetarian diet is that you're stupid enough to fall for it in the first place.

"You'd have a lot more energy with the low calorie diet? Oh that's some amazing logic right there."

Never mentioned anything about calories.

"The reason you'd be happier on a vegetarian diet is that you're stupid enough to fall for it in the first place. "

I'm apparantly the one with amazing logic.

Fair enough, you didn't mention calories, I kinda skimmed through that one.

And yeah, ignorance is bliss was my gist.

Yeah no worries man, I replied in a silly way too so sorry fair play.

From my own experience, I feel better when I'm not consuming large amounts of meat for my own purposes, I still continue to do it but not as much, meat is just a very inexpensive source of protein, especially when u get very lean chicken or turkey breast. I stay away from all red meats though.

That's great. I have no problem with people abstaining from meat or animal products in general. What I abhor is people preaching it to others because "they feel good".

I switched to a Vegan diet, 2 week trial peroid
+0.4% LG
+2% Rail

Just buy a lag switch and double cheeseburger.

wtf

So after crunching the numbers and analysing all the latest scientific data on ESR I've managed to gather that a dx racer combined with eating plants, smoking weed, and drinking mountain dew are the only things needed for success.

diet mountain dew*

Just read this whole thread and fuck me, the amount of misinformation in here is unreal.

Some nice valid stats and papers, however not one person has mentioned the metabolic rate and how we as individuals process various things from meat, vegetables and vitamins / minerals.

No one has cited genetic predisposition etc.

TL;DR

Too many keyboard warriors who put none of what they're hammering about in to practice.

It's about balance yo. However, a plant based diet is and will always be superior to anything that has factored in that has been touch by mans ungodly hands.


P.S. PLZ DON'T FLAME ME GUISE

6 cans of mountain dew a day
20 hours of q2

-- my old life

^ This man right here knows the fountain of youth tricks.

your tl;dr was only 23.29% shorter than the original statement :((

Exactly 3.29% higher than your LG accuracy. :((

measuring LG accuracy with a precision of only 2 decimal places, ha ha ha

No one has cited genetic predisposition etc.


Yes I did! Thank you!

I re-read, cba editing my post, however the citation was rather vague, at least you covered it.

Appreciated.

Anyhow I covered lacceh's face as well, I guess that is somehow also connected to genetics so..

No face remains dry with me

Not sure if I should lol or applaud you.

Sorry for hammering the shit out of you , but I find it continuously funny

High protein diets vs Idiots like Lacceh


Jonathon Sullivan MD, PhD, FACEP, SSC is an emergency physician and the owner of Greysteel Strength and Conditioning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDNJ0DqrFLs



See Martin, Armstrong & Rodriguez, Dietary protein intake and renal function, Nutrition & Metabolism 2:25 (2005); Manninen, High-protein weight loss diets and purported adverse effects: where is the evidence?, Sports Nutr. Rev. J. 1:45-51 (2004); Knight et al., The impact of protein intake on renal function decline in women with normal renal function or mild renal insufficiency, Ann. Intern. Med. 138: 460-467 (2003); Poortmans and Dellalieux, Do regular high-protein diets have potential health risks on kidney functions in athletes?, Int. J. Sports Nutrition 10:28-38 (2000).

I find it hilariously ironic that idiot and Idaho seem like similar words. Even more telling, most people in Idaho are in fact idiots. I hate this state.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25522674

Detox diets

It is really really funny that the propagators of healthy eating and clean diets get all upset about protein and talk about financial gains while a whole fuckin organic dipshit industry is leaching their money. It is a double whammy of skeptical stupidity : from conspiracy theories and misinformation they become exactly what they feared: a prey animal for pseudo science and shady corporations headquartered in Dominica

It isn't a detox diet. It is eating whole plant foods instead of meat, eggs, and dairy. I agree detox diets are kind of silly and I don't really care if my food is organic. I don't really know what your talking about I just don't want to eat food I know will contribute to poor health.

healthy foods won't stop you dying, you have to hit the treadmill and do some benchpresses to rid your body of man made atmospheric pollution hidden away in your muscle cells

when you don't get a kidney stitch is when you are kind of healthy, until then you will probably shit blood so you kidney won't work overtime and fail

its what the governments don't tell you, so they blame everything else on cancer

Some of the other silly bitches here talked about it so I linked it.
Im just slowrolling.
I fullly Don't care what you think after that meat causes cancer stupid shit you wrote however you rationalize your half informed bullcrap.

I fully agree I am pretty stupid. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4698595/

you are.
see comment 153 for the roast.
How dare you being stupid twice?
You did not specify RED meat, you said meat. There is a difference between the different type of meats as everyone knows who isn't a stupid ass vegan. The funny thing is you went along with it again then shared a citation about RED meat so you are also logically inconsistent ...again. One is a category of different kinds of elements that you talked about because you are a generalizing wide sweeping statement type of stupid bitch, and then you link to an element of that general category that ofc isn't homogen with the whole category. Nais job!
You are a prime example of linking from pubmed while having a sloppy argument and a bad habit of not knowing when to back up after thoroughly ridiculed. Btw , I'm happy that probably a first time in your life you used a citation. Pity I remember your bullshit. Also you can thank papa dre to show you how try to be at least factual.
Btw, didn't you see I already posted a more thorough link/article in comment 153 about the exact same topic that ridiculed your stupid shit? Did you think posting the same topic but with less material going to hit me as a new information? You could link me my own post you stupid moron it talks exactly about red meat and cancer.
Retard.
How you gonna get me when you know even less the lacceh, who I ruined here, hm? You buckled over in the op, literally in your first post- even though after comment 153 you changed and deleted that line.
Thank you for letting me shit on you twice, now go wash your face

I am sorry about all that. You see I just don't care about this shit as much as you. I am eating a whole foods plant based diet because it makes me feel better so unless you can prove that will kill me faster then eating meat everyday go for it. And yes when I am intoxicated I write stupid shit because this is a gaming forum not a medical journal. If I delete something when I am sober that is probably because I don't agree with it. What do you want from me? You just deflect to cause arguments all the time. And it is all processed meat not just red. I was just too lazy to find it yesterday because I had other things I had to do. Here is a study for that. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2121650/
Also this is a forum what kind of pressure am I supposed to be buckling under. I don't give a fuck what other people think of me. I however respect there knowledge, ideas and opinions. You seem to be trying to be inflammatory.

Not gonna prove anything thats a hundred times more difficult than disproving something. I don't run a lab to prove shit you know? *
"It is a gaming forum and not a medical journal.." spewing stupidity is just that no matter the place.
So I should ask every time if you are sober?
that processed meat blabla is in my post 153, again, it would serve you well to read it, again just avoiding not coming down so stupidly and linking duplicates. You try to act thoughtful but you still dosen't read opposing sources. Kinda defeats the purpose of "respecting knowledge".
I don't deflect, I refute and if I were you, after that meat remark I just shut the fuck up, sorry will not help.
I told you what I think about your feelz already, irrelevant.
"You seem to be trying to be inflammatory"
damn right, and I also linked more shit here than anybody, and everyone including you were refuted to the hell and back, add 2+2 together already

* also thats an argument fallacy you bitch

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)

don't know about the whole diet thing, but its easy to come up with your own drinks for breakfasts and weights

nutri ninja bl480



mad ninja drink 1 :

1 shredded wheat

nutrition > https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=firefo...-IUY9NyyD8

1/4 onion

nutrition > https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=firefo...mp;bih=847

spinach

nutrition > https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=firefo...mp;bih=847

carrot

nutrition > https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=firefo...SsY6qMlcxA

4 raw eggs

nutrition > https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=firefo...whUb__cfks

fill it up with milk

This thread became a bigger shitstorm than Irma.