LG nerf did it for me.

I actually enjoyed the way it was before. Cant hit anything now. All enjoyment gone :(

lg nerf did it for me too, among many other things. Lg nerf was just the cherry on top.

Same for me. Tried QL again since about a week ago and it's amazing how much better the game feels.

I had to play QC for the first time for less than 2 minutes to realize that tho.


#tdmpickup awaits you.

I think I just wanted to like the game so much that I subconsciously brainwashed myself into believing that the game wasn't the stuttering piece of wank everybody else saw it for...

..at least that's what I'd like to believe.

I'll check it out when I'm back home again, currently abroad atm.

Same for me. Tried q2 again since about a week ago and it’s amazing how much better the game feels.

yes it has become again the real man LG ... anyways its gonna get easier in november after hitbox update.

maybe id should stop killing their own game

The 6 biggest mistakes they made with the game was.

1) The netcode + the terrible foundations its built on which has poisoned everything and locked them in a rubick's cube dev cycle where they fix something and that breaks something else.

2) Allowing non VQ3 characters into a game where the masses will have struggled with even the basics of VQ3. They pissed off the 99.9 percent to please the .1%.

3) Not fire-walling new players from good players.

4) A reward system which offers you mostly nothing of worth.

Most of the vanity items and skins degrade any chance they have of those characters becoming known, and the vanity items and skins mostly make you easier to hit beyond the basic grey.

My vanity cares about losing in video games more than having a neon green helmet. Maybe this will be better for people who do not buy the game as they will get rewarded with champs.

5) Making all of these mistakes and taking so long to do anything about them (or not at all), often fixing and breaking things has led a lot of people to think it will never be fixed. The game has been running badly since day 1 and its been over 6 months and we're still struggling with the basics.

6) Spending a million dollars without inc FFA, which was the most popular and easy to play mode for new players to get into.

One which cannot always be dominated by the best player. One which gave new players a chance they could have won a few bucks from playing which would have grown the game.Instead you put them in duels and sacrifice games with pros they never had a chance of beating or barely fragging, which means you basically give away a million bucks to people who would have shown the game the same attention for 10% of that purse.

I am being positive which is why I am being constructive.

Allowing non VQ3 characters into a game where the masses will have struggled with even the basics of VQ3. They pissed off the 99.9 percent to please the .1%. Made worse by the netcode.

It's not like Anarki has hard movement. The skill floor is low because the acceleration is insanely forgiving and the speed cap is so low that the skill ceiling isn't particularly high either. If you can hold a directional key and move your mouse in that direction at the same time, you're doing all you need to do and unfortunately all you pretty much can do with Anarki.

The game play he forces and gets away with is not fun to play against.

His health means he has to have an in and out effect, it can be supremely effective if played right , and most of the players in quake champs have never played an FPS which requires you to track a target like that, made worse by a game that can't register shots properly.

Many players do not want to play such characters as it messes up their existing FPS movement and its not fun to counter a character like that.

Promode had its time, as did reflex, as did warsow, as did painkiller.
Devs should take the hint, it did not work out. The only quake which has shown any kind of mass market potential this century has been VQ3. Wrecking it to be inclusive is not smart.

no character in the game has been moaned about as much as Anarki, or had as much success at the top duel positions at major LANS as him.

Its just not fun or enjoyable for the majority of people that character in particular interacts with.

where is deathmatch with quake, where is realtime strategy with starcraft today?
Maybe we should accept most newer players moved on to different genres ... these old genres are reserved for hardcore veteran grandpas only ... maybe one day u can tell your kids how u still played games back then that required real skillz

damn but i only see vq3 noobs crying about anarki and no one else

I'm well-versed in CPM and he's a pile of shit.


So as the whole game.

Right, QC would have been a triumph if only for that pesky CPM movement. The movement is not related to its failure, that's because it looks bad, has many bugs, bad netcode, so so balance and much, much better competition. QC is like QL only a lot more half-assed. Both coasted on Quake 3.

"...Promode had its time, as did reflex, as did warsow, as did painkiller...."

BS. Those are only the ripoffs of Q1, Quake1 was bay far the most successful quake, having some prize comps even after 20 (!!) years, and it has the most extreme aribunny movement, even more control than anarki. The only reason that Q1/QW is not sill "the quake" played most, is that it didn't get a real graphics update. I remember how Q2 went by almost unnoticed, and Q3 was already out for years, and we still had far more QW competitors at quake lans. The players were like "why would I switch to wheelchair quake where players can only jump forward in straight line, rotfl"

lmao your movement must be rather terrible if you think it's that easy to wiz around with anarki.

Mine must be terrible too since I think he's totally right... :(

Their fails started with using a hybrid engine and outsourcing to Saber Interactive. Only the next was the hero shooter bs.

http://steamcharts.com/cmp/611500,282440

quake live is surpassing quake champions in concurrent players at this point.

I started up QL a couple of days ago, good god it feels so good to move around.

Apart from the fact I can't find any games in QC, it still feels like shit in game.

Maybe Tim will regret to advise us to play QL when we dislike QC

That would imply that there's actually somebody who cares about his advices.

lol thanks for reminding me of that... what a fucking moron

=))

It's normal.

-Casual players leaving during week\months, as always. They not ready to accept competitive game. Some players 10% just waiting for game release, without bugs.

-They call it EA, while it only pre alpha, because they want to make playerbase as eraly as possible(part of pr), instead of wait 1 year for full release. They want to win a time and make game better with help of old players.

- Skins and vanity- perfect. Bugs- nothing for pre alpha.

So just not call it EA =)

It's a pleasure to listen to a professional.

You forgot to plus me

Good. Let the abomination die quickly.

Rock On!

Here... have a + a [+] a {+} a '+' a (+) a <+> a :+: or a I+I


please note: the last vanity I+I is only available if you smash some stupid pots, go up the jumpad on DM6 3 times,
add Slash's health to Scalebummer's Pocket Money and spend 30,000 shards

laughed my ass off

imagine giving away 1 million dollars in tournament with a buggy-as-fuck game with a tiny playerbase. LOL

Clawz must be laughing.
Willits is like "NOO WHAT HAVE I DONE".

For the moment I gave up on it as well. The LG nerf was the final drop in a bucket of games that is dying to get my attention. Might increase activity next patch but not counting on it. Damn shame!

Millennials are killing Quake.

id does. For a long time now.

Tim is millenial?

He invented millennia.

I had a brief in-between patch experience of a smoother, fps-drops/stutter free game. (which seems gone again now I had a shitty post-newest patch yesterday night no thanks again)

I had the occasion to try the new LG, and liked it. Suddenly it took actual tracking skills to hit it again. The way it's meant to be played. If people liked the old LG so much they should be looking at the newest aimbots available on the market because that's actually what it should feel like.

Was actually hitting around 40lg in duel when I tried it, against a player using small models including anarki. Granted I was in good shape so that'd prolly have amounted to 60 with the old one but it should never be an acceptable acc to get xD.

In truth for a good player's LG should hit around 30%lg most of the time and around 40% when he's hitting hard with rare, occasional ~45-50% when they've had an insane game filled with mousepad kills.

Now people have been spoiled and everyone wants their effortless 45% lg's again.

I kinda agree with you I don't think it is the nerf that is the problem, it's more rather the game that feels so unsmooth and together with the donutscripted netcode makes the lg almost worthless without the previous "feature", but as you said when the game runs smooth it feels more fair and rewarding when it behaves like it should. It is broken in a different way now but on its way to repair.

Dont lose your time with dem0n, he will call you a game killer and blame you for the failure of the forever bugfest called QC.

i fully agree with you about the acc.
the problem is, the hits currently dont register even if you are 100% on the target

On a very personal note, I just don't enjoy the experience of firing up the game, have to wait so much, etc. QL serves me better, and I enjoy the gameplay more.

As for what they should fix, I think the's many obvious bugs/issues related to the hit registration. I think that the "lg nerf" in reality was a bit of a hack where they quickly removed some LG code to prevent the bug from happening. But that code was there for a reason, so I'd expect them to come back to the issue and take some time to fix things properly.

As for the general popularity of the game, I think it's a difficult situation. They need to believe QC can be a mainstream game. I personally think it will never happen, as Quake is a niche game. I made in other places the analogy with Street Fighter, a game everyone has played at some point int their live, a game/legacy everyone respects, but a game nobody really wants to play, unless you are a hardcore fighting game player. To be fair I'd be happy id software acknowledged Quake is niche and addressed what to do with it.

I think they believe it can be a mainstream game. Personally, I believe the bumps we've hit so far in the way and the slow-feel to the development of the game have damaged QC but did not yet definitively seal the deal with it.

I mean, I'm trying to picture this game with a good netcode and a smooth performance, with balanced new gamemodes that are fun to play and regular new content.

Wrap that all up with a competitive set of features like rankings, leaderboards and a healthy leagues/tournaments system and I have good faith that this could become a hit. Certainly not a pubg or LoL hit or even CSGO or OW (in terms of raw casual popularity for the latest because the esports aspect is in odd waters presently). But a level below this could already be a huge hit for a Quake game.

I still have faith. These are my must-have for it to happen in a tl;dr fashion :

* decent netcode
* good alround performance
* competitive features
* balanced&fun modes
* new content
* ???
* profit

I agree with everything, but making more modes = kill the game. It seperates players of playing together.

I'm not saying go ham on 50 new modes. I think sacrifice should be dropped altogether at some point in favor of a version of CTF.

At best it should be like this :

-FFA
-TDM
-CTF
-DUEL
-FUN MODE ROTATING

A maximum of 5 to 6 modes at once should be plenty enough. With the more serious and balanced modes having competitive ladders, rankings/elo system (CTF TDM DUEL)

I get what you are saying, but all I think you can obtain with that effort is to make a game that Quakers will have a better time playing. It won't change the appeal Quake has on the masses.

I think our mistake is to take our own experience in 1999 and think it can be the same today. There were no multiplayer games back then, except for Quake, UT and some older FPS. On RTS side there were Starcraft and Warcraft 2. Games were so few that you could expect a big majority of the people interested in games to play them.

Today is very different. Not only there’s way more genera, but within the same genre there’s plenty of competitors. Yes, the market is larger, so in absolute numbers you may still get similar player counts as back then, but those numbers mean nothing today. You need millions of active players for your brand to have the same level of recognition that thousands of players would have given you back then.

And to be fair, the newbie experience in Quake kind of sucks compared to the newbie experience in many other games. We have a distorted view on it, but I remember all my IRL friends who flocked to CS immediately and never looked back, because they were getting shitfaced in Quake, but had a chance in CS. Quake is fun after you grind it enough to learn the movement, the physics, etc. There’s nothing really special about it until then.

You get what I am saying and I likewise get what you are saying ;). Quake can go one of two ways starting from now and it's either my rather optimistic outcome or your more skeptical but more likely one at this stage.

I think Beth/ID need to give it one last shot though. I mean that's what they're doing already but I hope the difficult times QC is in right now doesn't make them completely backoff on their plans for Quake. I think it'd really hurt the franchise just as much as finding out it wasn't a complete fairytale success in the end.

I personally think there were a lot of positive reviews from less hardcore players in the early stages of the QC beta and thus think they were going in the general good direction with it. Sure noobs will be noobs and will get rekt. But I still think there's 1 or 2 more trump cards to kickstart Quake into a healthy status. Namely rankings. This should be the thing that keeps new players interested.

Rankings, smooth experience, fun and balanced games. Incentive to get better. I don't want to abandon all hope just yet. Not before QC gets its full release.

The damage has already been done, namely QC itself.


It would be much better if id would make a big QL update, which only consist extensive options for spectating and streaming, multi-POV demos (and doesn't affect the gameplay AT ALL) and they would make proper, official leaderboards. Also reducing the Steam price to 5 EUR, to make it even more cheap and accessible for new people.

Oh, and contact some of the really BIG streamers to give it a go live, after explaining evident (for us) stuff to them, like skill gaps, the depth and the general cool factor of the whole stuff. Maybe they could have 2-3 sanctionized servers with some admin presence to avoid veterans joining and trampling on the educational streams.

Abandoning QC that's not even released yet to focus entirely on some QL revival is just beating on a dead horse at this point. And would definetly kill the game and all its future iterations for the decade to come. Nah I think they need to keep making progress in QC, hopefuly something will snap at some point.

Remember QL was terrible at the start too... It only started making sense after a good year or two. And that was a fucking port of an already existing game that everyone shouldve been able to run on their toaster.

Wouldn't be that much of a focus on their part. Rather a small investment to keep their little dignity what's left. And why would that kill it more than the current, unplayable and unquake crap?

What you do is wishful thinking without any basis. Haven't id slapped you right in the face enough times yet?


I remember; it wasn't nearly as terrible as QC, not even close, even when it was in closed beta. I loved it since day 1 and even though it had some issues in the beginning, you could see the light at the end of the tunnel and I never onced thought that I'm ever gonna uninstall this.

quake will never be a game for the masses, and thats ok.
personally i dont want to be on a server where i am the only adult and the rest are some 14 year old kids spamming chat and screaming in the mic..

id rather play with and against other adults, you know ql would be awwsome if all the people playing ca would start playing tdm or ctf.

I agree that quake is less appealing to newbies compared to other games... But all of our datapoints are from getting newbies to play old/broken games. There is no proper evidence that a decently done Quake couldn't be, say, sc2-sized. Which would be pretty great.

you cant achieve the first 2 bullet points with this shit engine.

The decline in the number of active players could be explained by the fact that the game is still very raw now and lots of ppl - including myself - are not interested in playing some videogame which is not ready, changing from patch to patch dramatically. Thats like moving into a house with the half of the walls missing and no roof.

And besides that i'm waiting for the final release with the proper mappool - 4 fucking current duel maps, 2 of which are so old that may be used as a proofs in a Big Bang Theory, are the reason.

Friendlist on steam doesn't lie either. Everyone is either playing CS:GO or Quake Live.

Not PUBG?

And PUBG

and rocket league :)

And rocketleague

and Hello Kitty Island Adventure

is that on steam? after trying QC once i am now 24/7 on 'Hello Kitty and Sanrio Friends Racing'

More than nerfed lg, it's a poor performance/bad internet/netcode problem, tons of players on steam dont have 1070/1080 + 100/10Mb to run smoothly this game.
October patch made worse

Thts true, but with comp worth 1800$ you get barely 120 fps in PUBG so I dont think this is really all that matters. Game has zero noobfriendly stuff so new players could be attracted, and game is even more hardcore designed than QL was. Its hard for new players to start, or play for a while. At least they could fix the netcode, make everthing much easier to shot rather than making it super hardcore. Also they should consider to add ranked system already to get ppl keep playing QC.

Pubg is almost ow fps with 100 players in the server, in quake/cs/ow etc you play in little map, few players, and you espect good/better performance and solid netcode, like all old chapters (hi q4).
For sure rank mode/tiers will help noobs, but q remains hard game

pull the plug already ffs
this shit is less "esport ready" than ultrono arena

let's all pretend this never happened

bethesda/id software need to move on, the players already did

i'm just glad they made QL a stand-alone so i don't have to play QC

What would make me play it more is ctf, team/bright skins, less bloom on weapons, the screen not going black each time you take a face rocket (a feature like this does not belong in a mp game). Simple stuff that could be fixed today, the rest will get fixed during development.

you are my soulmate

If only Diabotical was ready, right now would be the perfect time to release a beta and corner what's left of the AFPS genre.

"If only Diabotical was ready, right now would be the perfect time to release a beta and corner what's left of the AFPS genre."

2GD right now....

Doubt it.

Let's just all accept the era of AFPS is over and make this a PUBG forum for the time being. It'll be like fashion, you see those flared out pants these broads are all wearing these days? Last time they wore them was late 90's. AFPS will come back in style in the same manner.

Afaik, QC has various tournaments planned for next year, with loads of money on the line, so it's not the best moment for another arena fps.

It is if people are increasingly quitting QC which appears to be the trend currently.

If those prize pools would go to COMPETENT developers instead, who also give great respect to the franchise..

Irrelevant. There's no more than 100 competitive players in QC, and QC gets 3,000 average viewers. Peanuts.

Plus QC's playerbase has steadily continued to shrink, while QC has had many streamed events so far and even giving away easily over 2M to the community. The prize pools, the free trips and the constant events, by themselves do not make non-competitors stay playing something. Fun does, and for regular players QC is not fun to play nor to watch.

In short, http://steamcharts.com/cmp/611500,578080

It is quite relevant because you can't get the bulk of the quake community without grabbing the pros. The pro cirquit means streams, interviews, partnerships with ESL/Dreamhack erc. As long as QC is there with millions on the line, releasing an arena FPS targeting Quakers would be crazy.

The bulk you are thinking of is this:
http://steamcharts.com/app/282440

Peanuts. People stopped playing Quake decades ago. What matters is to get new players, because Quake's playerbase is nothing.


Secondly, what good does it make to fly in cooller to play and get interviewed, if nobody is watching it?

Paying 2M (including prize pool, hosting the event, the live qualifiers and paying all the trips to players to all of those), in order to get 3,000 average viewership at Quakecon on Twitch, means paying $666,7 to get each viewer. Horrible marketing decision.

How about Youtube then? https://www.youtube.com/results?sp=CANQFA%253...+champions
The QC tournaments don't even come in 50th place of the most watched Quake Champions videos. I stopped counting there.

So, have QC tournaments really made a difference when it comes to increasing the game's popularity? I don't think so.

I'd much rather see those millions that are being wasted in tournaments, now put in the development budget in order to fix the technical issues this game has, and that make people stop playing. And this suggestion comes from somebody that got $2,000 in tree trips, so one of the people being benefited from this waste.

I'm not saying an artificial life support like painkiller is a good idea, i'm saying that a healthy quake based game needs its pros.

You will get pros for free when you have a lot of players.
The other way round is difficult. No one new to quake will start playing or watching QC when cooller is playing.

You're forgetting a few factors though. It created a backstory. A solid one. With tons of footage that they will be able to mount later on when the game is ready to launch.

Don't you think they have gained a lot of interesting stories during this 1M prizepool quakecon event ? This young vs old super final with clawz and voo, same goes with the super sac final... All these interviews, videos, replays they have gained, they will be able to use it all to create a solid backstory for the future.

Also you need to realize bethesda has a _lot_ of money. And I'm pretty sure they know better than you or me what needs to be done in order to get QC to good standards. That's why QC has only just entered EA and I'm not expecting a full release before QCon 2018 and even that is far fetched. That leaves them another 9 months to fix things.

Don't just say they wasted their opportunity, that's just untrue, all hopes aren't lost.

QC is not an in-house Zenimax game. This game was outsourced to Saber, a cheap Russian developer that has made plenty of games filled with bugs and with awful review scores. The project started right after the Russian currency had badly depreciated.

With that said, chances are QC has a small development budget. Why else has the game progressed so little in 6 months of beta/EA?

Those Quake pros would've come and play anyway, for even 5% of that prizepool.

how well did painkiller fare with all its pro tournaments? as if these tournaments would bring any players in ... these tournaments only help a lot if the playerbase is already big and thriving ....

I agree, I think QC is doomed if it continues this way, but I think my point still stands. A diabotical, to be successful, it needs everyone, pros included.

I disagree, pros are irrelevant to the success of a game and I would extend that to the Quake community is irrelevant to the success of a new Quake. This community is a very small niche and insignificant in terms of player base, it only matters now because we are the only player base.

It needs to appeal to a larger audience in order to be successful. From that success will born tournaments. From those tournaments will born (new) pro players.

That being said, I don't think a Quake in its purest form can appeal to the masses. It can only get relatively big and relevant if executed perfectly (features, gameplay, fun modes, incentives to stay, etc etc) and so far QC has been one of the biggest mess I've ever witnessed and I feel they've reached a point of no return. It would require a drastic change of design direction in order to even pretend to appeal to a larger audience which will never happen.

Diabotical is supposed to be a Quake spiritual successor. To me that means two things:
- It shares the fundamentals of Quake, therefore it's a game that appeals to Quakers.
- It shares the fundamentals of Quake, therefore it's a game with little to no appeal to the general public.

Now maybe this community is getting too old and too thin, so it will just die off, and what you describe (a new community, and new pros) will eventually happen.

The other scenario is, this community has still something to give, and if that's the case, my argument is that pros do matter. Primarily because they remind everyone else why playing the game is amazing, and give them something to aspire to. There has been countless of times I've watched a crazy match and immediately after launched the game craving to improve. Good tournaments always give a spark of energy to the community.

you have vods of better tournaments to show why playing the game is amazing.

pros bring nothing to game development, aside from potentially pushing the devs to tailor the game in a way that gives them an advantage.

game needs to be fun in it's core, with fun modes and out-of-the-game activities. if it manages to attract a bigger playebase, it'll spawn it's own esports / competitive scene anyway.

this "made for esports" bullshit has devs tryharding with silly ideas and what not, instead of just making the game FUN and enjoyable.

pros bring nothing to game development

Couldn't agree more.

Not sure I'd agree with that, some pros are good at exploiting gameplay. Some are very conservative so will mostly play as they think the game wants them to, some will unearth imbalances and design flaws that others wouldn't. Pros are not designers, they're testers.

I think you can get the same results with competent players. One of the issues I find dealing with "pro" players is the ego/emotional baggage that comes with, and they just can't seem to grasp: "Pros are not designers, they're testers."

I never had that problem, being an ego maniac or having emotional baggage are separate issues and you just need to avoid working with those people. Also I didn't encounter a belief among top players that they were designers, they made suggestions, some good and some bad and those were treated like all other suggestions - they went into the debate / testing melting pot and some emerged and were used, others did not.

Yeah, sadly that's been my experience so far :'(

Most game designers started as testers or were gamers long before they were a designers.

Success is a complex thing.

If you make a shit game and it sells 1 million copies you're a success.

If you make a great game, and it sells 10,000 copies you're a failure.

On the other hand, there are people out there who don't care about sales and perceive success as per 10,000 copy game, whereas others will simply look at the sales, player base and judge it on that.
Same as some guys only date obviously pretty women, and others care about personality more than anything. That latter usually end up happier, even if with less pretty women.

Your point is very rudimentary.

I rate quake higher than every FPS game, but according to sales and player numbers I am wrong.

But I could jump into any of their FPS games and give them a much tougher time than they could do to me in quake.

its because I'm tuned to a higher standard and that's all any purist cares about. Ethically their opinions are more important, but money is generally king.

This world will often reward shitty things so its really hard to have a right opinion on what is good or bad as it ultimately all boils down to money. At lest in most peoples eyes.

Well, DB has eggbots. QC looks like an ass sadly.

Sorry no. Game to be successful , you dont need pros at the begining.

Depends on the game.

Go design me the next sequel to street fighter when your fighting game experience = streets of rage.

you will fail based on not consulting a pro.

But in the modern world, maybe not.

That's why I made the above post. Success is hard to define..

I see consulting the pros did a wonderful job for SFV.

I'm not sure what happened there, but I think they took development away from Japan and give it to a bunch of people from SRK working for Capcom in Cali.

There's a well know FPS developer who did something similar too and achieved similar results.

incorrect. development was done entirely in Japan. lead game designer was Woshige (pro Guilty Gear player, also know for this amusing fuckup)

i'm sure part of the direction in SFV was swayed by Capcom USA feedback, but the core issues the game has are entirely on the game designer(s).

the game is totally uninspiring in my book. playstyles are no longer a factor, the game and characters funnel you to play a certain way and it gets repetitive and dull to the point i can't be arsed to watch even the best play.

Not at all. Right now PUBG is amassing all the PC FPS playerbase.

predicted releasedate by the developer was june 2017 ... that has long gone by and there is still not much to show about the game ... and 2gd playing QC in a tournament in the U.S. and making long streams on twitch of other games doesnt really make things better ... pretty much abandonware if u ask me ... sadly I backed that game, hope I get my money back

the whole concept was crap from the start. So im glad QC is almost dead and we can go on to a proper game.
This hero bullshit just doesnt deserve to be successful!

I+I

Hero shit is ok for regular kids. problems, shit engine, netcode, no ranks and round system. The engine cant be changed so game is dead. Same was with q4..

I don't understand the bashing of Q4; the single was kinda okay and Q4MAX was rather nice (not as good as OSP / CPMA, but still nice), even though it came quite late. Projectiles traveling through teleporters, nades bouncing on jump pads and having crouchslide was pretty cool.

"It came to late". All said.

Would have been more precise if I had said 'it came too late for snowflakes'. But as I perceive, you agree on that Q4MAX is pretty nice.

Q4 was good with Q4max and untill 1.3 patch, then they made it to fast (to fast for me).

Everyones using bethesda launcher! ( superior software )
Who wants to chat/whisper ingame anyways???
Love the millions of new faces!

It's not really fun to get disconnected in half the games due to rubberbanding. The change to lg and the fps-dependent damage don't really help. I thought capping at 150 fps was a good idea; apparently not.

I don't see why they just didn't make the game with the doom4 engine. Maybe Carmack getting himself fired made it too difficult.

Despite the problems, I found pub tdm pretty fun, and sac is fun as long as there's some basic teamwork.

From my perspective duel would probably be more fun if you could just pick 1 champion, then they got balanced like the starcraft races or tf characters or something. Either way, duel is kinda lacking in funitivity.

Pub TDM?


That abomination has nothing to do with TDM, lol.

why are you so surprised? QC is crap, and ql is the superior game.
its the truth.

[+]

its hard to be positive when u saw pubg on coollers stream when he playin with stermy. bad sign

The complete lack of a proper ranking system killed the game for me

Right now we have all the disadvantages of a matchmaking system with none of the advantages

The ranking system needed to be in place before early access if the game wanted any hope of attracting new players

The billions of bugs were annoying but could be fixed with time, but the game failed to capture a playerbase and it's extremely unlikely that can be repaired this late in development

For one the underlying game is OK, but to deal with the technical issues you really have to have the patience of a Buddhist monk, and even some sense of humor.

In my case, I only started playing QC and kept on giving it more tries because it has "Quake" on the title. Otherwise I would have refunded it long ago, and guess that's what other people have already done on Steam. People don't see a 10 mins long queue time in their first try and think a game deserves a second chance.

For another, Quake in 2017 has to face the competition, and when for the price of QC you could buy either OW (a very much technically solid game with five times more content) or PUBG (originality and today's trendy game), it really is an easy decision to make for non-hardcore Quake fans.

Both are much more fun to play than QC. I actually only play QC to do the daily challenges, as a way to force myself to play, and the odd weekly Sacrifice scrim. But say the daily challenge is on the CD and want to play something, QC doesn't ever cross my mind, but Rocket League, coop Dying Light and PUBG do.



edit: BTW, on the technical issues side I don't only mean the low FPS, stuttering and feeling problems. I know that's the main issue preventing others from continue playing, but not in my case. For me the key issues are lack of visibility and the long amount of time it takes to get playing a match (including MM and unnecessary screens). On those aspects QC is by far the worst game I've ever played, making it not enjoyable to play for more than two matches in a row.

For example say I happen to think of playing some duel. What's going to happen is I'm going to wait 10 minutes before the first game starts (7 minutes queue + 3 mins of unnecessary screens/warmup), it will a boring 5 mins match due to MM pairing me with some noob, try again and face the same, and 30 minutes have passed without no enjoyment whatsoever. BTW, all that playing with 130 ping on US servers (because the local servers are horrible -- been on queue for 15mins and if it pairs me with someone those servers have 5 seconds long lags), all that while having to squint to see something. Great game.

Or for another example, what happens to non-seasoned players is they queue up for Deathmatch, for at least 5 to 10 minutes without the game starting, in-game they get very low FPS, can't see a thing and get immediately destroyed (so they don't even understand what's going on -- didn't really play). Repeat, refund.

A lot of issues already mentioned (technical issues, long waits, etc) but the big one in my view is the game is even more heavily designed around duel than any Quake was previously. This hurts all other modes dramatically and TDM is weak while Sacrifice is garbage. Without a good team mode (and AFPS need something matching or exceeding QW TDM) I have about zero interest.

The best thing they can do at this point is admit defeat and move on. Try again in a year or so with new people leading the project and using idtech 6.

lets starve this little retarded baby to death guys

Lol jesus

I just played a game today. I give it a try once a week. Still the same issues where my ping is nice, but other players are warping around like crazy.

Everyone already mentioned the big problems, like netcode, waiting times and severe lack of content and balance. If the gameplay was OK, you could struggle through and hope for the best. But when rails don't hit and the rocket splash is aggravating, that's what bothers me the most. The range of the (enemy) gauntlet is infuriating too.

I wonder if they internally contemplated a switch to Id Tech 666 and just make a clean sweep. The assets can be recycled.

Bringing me to another issue. I feel the game could look nicer than it is. There is a lot of clipping on all the models and often there's no attention to details. It looks nice for a Quake game, but I have this nagging feeling it looks dated, or will looked dated pretty quickly. I'm just comparing to other games that are being released.

In any case, I used to hype people for Quake Champions, but I'm actually kind of embarassed to mention it lately because of all the troubles. I can't go around and say "give it a shot, it's really fun!" when the stutter and lag is so obvious and game breaking. They'll probably get their shit pushed in, because the only people playing now are the real Quake fans that power through all these issues.

Now that you mention it system specs are likely are a huge issue on why the game is not popular

The specs aren't really that high but they're way higher than dota 2 and way way way higher than LoL

part of LoL's popularity is that it can run on a laptop with integrated graphics and still get around 30 fps. not great, but playable.

id made the same damn mistake with quake 3, the specs were too high for the average computer and as a result UT and CS ended up way more popular

Quake games have always pushed hardware boundaries. I remember having 12fps (yes twelve :)) on Q2 crusher demo with a Riva TNT card. If a game works well it's certainly playable with rather low fps. QC in it's current state could work better. Quakes in the past have always had a solid working engine, except maybe Q4, which made the tweaking process short which in it's turn let the developers concentrate on gameplay development instead. I fear ppl will grow tired of QC and all it's issues and leave the game before it becomes good, never to return. I still believe it will become good.Tried the game yesterday for the first time in over a month. It certainly improved, movement felt better, game felt more connected with my mouse, ppl are still stuttering around me but less so than before. Now I hope for ctf and some kind of teamskins, less bloom and no blackouts when taking a rocket. I guess these are things I sort of expect/demand from a quake game, not being blinded by weapons, being able to see my enemies, and o yeah, I want to see my crosshair at all times, even when looking towards RA on dm6 :) As simple as that.

The Quake games you mentioned were demanding hardware wise because they gave you state of the art 3D computer graphics at their own time while also delivering flawless and precise control without any kind of compromise whatsoever. I think you should be afraid about people leaving the game because they don't see QC becoming anything like that any time soon.

"because the only people playing now are the real Quake fans that power through all these issues"


They certainly don't, they already went back to QL.

It's either the monies-hunters, the mentally challenged or the all-time shitters who can't cope with a fair game otherwise. And some newcomers.

There's not many players right now because it's not marketed. Anywhere. No one even knows about QC. Which is fine, the less people play this mess the better.

I'm guessing most of people who bought it did so for the discount.

Meanwhile...
https://clips.twitch.tv/PopularLaconicSalsifyKAPOW

context:
https://www.reddit.com/r/QuakeChampions/comme...s/dozp880/

What's that haircut called?

"i pretend to know what i'm doing"

It's called the 'just fuck my shit up fam'

It's the 'I don't give a fuck'

So the devs said there is no problem with LG but players using a high sensitivity so they suck with LG and used RL instead of LG.

Wow just Wow. What an excuse. Blame it on the players allthought those players LG would be most likely fine in QL with a high sensitivity.

Its getting more and more ridiculous...

There is no way that statement is true.

A few months ago I came up with an LG challenge which has now proven itself a useful reference point.
http://esreality.com/post/2880425/re-test-your-lg/

Pick Galena (FFA), and just keep moving to the LG spot on Ruins of Sarnath, and try and get the best LG percentage possible.
Quite fun and effective score wise actually. This was before I even knew of the LG hack, so there were no wiggles then or now.

(The irony is I came up with this challenge because I could not figure out why some players were hitting so much more LG than me, but now we know about the FPS issue and the wiggle,so it does not bother me anymore as I expect other factors were helping them)

People wrote it off as pointless, due to random sizes of champs between tests, but despite this, I was averaging about 30-34% regardless of the line up. Usually around 32. Same as Yakumo.

I just did the test twice in a row and I got 23 and 24 percent and the server was filled with a good selection of champs and a cheater called simon4ever. In other words, that should have been 30+ percent. Against small champs, that would have been less than 20%!

Not that anyone believed the dev about the situation, but if anyone was wondering what sort of figures you're down by, I expect my findings are pretty relative.

All the above was on servers at less than 35 ping.
100/10 internet
1070 gtx
144hz+1ms monitor,
G403 & QCK+

(I.E. A decent setup)


Anarki, Slash, Nyx just got one hell of a free buff.

" trying to test and evaluate several approaches that will disallow any kinds of abuses such as "Parkinson LG""

what the fuck is this guy talking about, just fucking fix it you moron... testinga approaches how to dissalow people form exploiting bugs, FIX THE BUG YOU MONGOLOID

"FIX THE BUG YOU MONGOLOID"


: D

What, so you imply checking 2 (two!) month in total will forecast a trend? Nope.

At least wait until some month after initial release with the fake statistics.

not really a problem really

you best believe that id will give people the power to run their own servers if they can't afford to have the budget to maintain the QC servers anymore in the future

and quake (in general) goes underground once again

for me personally this isn't a problem as i only play on private servers with my buddies : P

Called it when they rushed out of closed beta, was named a hater and yada yada, guess what bois, i was fucking right...

Well then those who called you names are stupid as fuck, we ALL knew this was going to happen. There was just no other way.

Exactly dude. And where are the labelers now? Long gone.

man ... ive read some tests about wolfenstein 2 yesterday and the tests were saying, idtech 6 is absolutely amazing ... once more it breaked my heart to read this and to ask myself why teh fuck id outsourced the fucking engine.

just imagine qc on a proper idtech 6 ... this game could really be awesome.

Lets talk about group of hardocre shooter players (multiplayer ofc).

A lot of players now in Overwatch because of huge initial advertisment and hype from Blizzard. For thouse who have not money theere is paladins now. So almost no players to other games. For example Battleborn is dead because its release date was close to Overwatch release date. LawBreakers Reflex UT4 is almost dead. It is hard to push new product to hardcore shooter genre now.

So there a lot of competitors for QC now. Even QL is competitor to QC, because system requirements for QC is mutch higher then QL ( it is only one of the reasons).

Amount of players in QC soon will be like in QL and stabilize - and it will be OK

What is not OK is lack of tutorial for new players IN game, lack of official youtube content like frag of the week, fragmovie and tutorial from pros videos - this is only way i know to reduce skillgap in harcore games with small amount of players and money.

Amount of players in QC soon will be like in QL and stabilize - and it will be OK


I'm sure that is OK with you, but it's not OK for the studios that worked on it for years, the sponsors that put in millions and the quake fans that were hoping for a worthy successor to the series. If this game dies before it's finished, it will be completely forgotten, unlike ql, q3, qw etc.

Plus this thing completely relies on a "cloud" backend so you couldn't just spin it up and host some servers or games yourself. If it shuts down, it's dead and forgotten.

Game is done in Russia - someone can steal everything one needs to spin it up independently :)

Amen.

f2p release next year + ranks + better optimisation/netcode, playerbase will be higher than actual ql+qc is, but i dont know if it will be enough (2k? 4k? boh)

Saber interactive did a good job and got their money from Bethesda

What sponsors you talk about ?

I am a quake fan, i am hoping many years), now i know it is OK

Imho game is not looking dead or dying now.

Are you a new fizzle?

What you described as 'not OK' with QC is coming well after the least important flaws needs to be addressed in the game.


You need a proper engine first, then you need proper gameplay. If you have the two of those, you can worry about tutorials and frag of the week.

Imho proper gameplay is more importatnt then engine

Sacrifice is bs but Duel is a "proper gameplay" !

Picture is norm, on med gpu you can get 120fps. What you mean when you talk about "proper engine" ?

While you can have a proper engine without proper gameplay, there's no proper gameplay without proper engine.


QC 'duel' is proper? Super-boring and repetitive Face 2 Face Clown Arena at its best, where meta barely even exist and is all about hitting rails and lg. With abysmal hit detection. :' D


Dude, are you even playing the game? It's a lagging, warping, delaying, stuttering fuckfest with a completely useless sound engine, running on amazon cloud. Literally.

If you warping and lagging maybe you have internet issuses.

Unfortunately am playing a couple hours in a week, cause i have a job kids etc, but if i were 16 i would play a lot, cause it is cool and fresh game.

With abilities addition each tournament you see new stuff in duel, new playstyle amazing comebacks, decisionmaking and roundwins, this is great!

Can't decide if you are trolling or trolling.

On the plus side, if that trend continues indefinitely, the playerbase will never reach 0.

NO GOOD MODES = dead game

I just got banned from multiplayer in qc for mid-game quitting in a TDM in which they matched me with 7 bots. Uninstalled.

FUCKING LOL

If true: Kudos on id for implementing bots.

I bet it was a beautiful metaphore for 2/24 K/D shitters.

K let's call QC the stop gap, marketing write-off and copy QL over to the new engine in a year and present QALIVE at Qcon 2018.

But.... we already did that with Quake 4.

Technical issues / netcode / bugs are exaggerated. I watched many streamers and youtubers trying out QC - none of them named technical stuff as main problem of the game. People play far worse optimized games when it's fun. That's the fundamental problem of Quake Champions - it's not really fun to play, especially for newbies to Quake.
QL isn't better in this sense.

The technical things ruin my fun.

Today:
- I got disconnected from the servers a lot
- Encountered 2 aim bots (maybe not strictly technical. But they ruined the fun anyway)
- Experienced the server "deciding" that what I saw didn't really happen, and so I should die, usually at critical moments like when quad is spawning, which happened at least 10 time per game.
- Gameplay issues, which imo shouldn't be there: Nerfed LG too much, hitboxes desperately need fixing, Slash keeps getting stuck on some maps floors, no custom xhairs, too much graphical "stuff" blinding the view, gauntlet range is too long.

I played about 10 games today and only about 2 of them weren't frustrating for one reason or another (and I won most so its not that).

I think the game could be fun to play, for lots of people. I think thats why everyone gets so frustrated, because if it was done in the right way (and I'm not saying I know exactly what is the right way, just that there could be one, and we know its not the right way atm), then it could attract a lot of new players.

The technical issues are down to the same universal problem with the game, which is that nothing much seems to get done. Its like the game was made up to a certain point, and now it just crawls along at a snails pace. So all these things are part of the same problem, in a way.

It just seems like the same problem that happened with QL, where there was too small of a team working on it. I think a lot of frustration comes from this, because a lot of us hoped that this time it would be given more attention, but its being revealed over time that its the same thing again :(

The only reason QL can't be fun is that you are getting destroyed left and right, not because the engine is a Mount Everest of feces or the gameplay itself is lacking.

Or you are just simply trying to play it on a Pentium III.

That or the fact that it's a slow dumbed down piece of shit of a game, but don't let that stop you regurgitating "ermagerd tactical" bullshit for the 15th year in a row.

Don't worry, this 17-player-butthurt won't stop me from anything.

Usually streamers have good pc and top connection to run at high framerate qc.
And 90% of them dont know how bunnyh, maybe some random rj.

Remove lobby, remove waiting, create servers I can join and start playing right away and ... nah nothing will draw me to qc im a ql player and ill be 10 years from now. i like watching qc duel though, the tournaments are great.

"server browsers to start playing right away"

ye and then you woke up

imho the opposite is true, server browser without strict adminning - you either have 7/8 ready for minutes or 8/8 + another 7 specs who just wait to play and argue who's next in queue

I find the ql system perfect, join a server start playing, done. If you dont like the quiters play pickups. I played public ctf for years alongside with pickups and it was always good fun. I dont know what made people think this lobby bullshit is a good idea in the first place, counter strike, tf2, nearly any shooter before 2010 has the normal join and play system. Because it works bitches.

Sometimes a dish is so shit that dousing it with ketchup and mustard isn’t enough to distract your tongue from the taste of dog shit.
Quake Champions

it's just ugly pile of trash

Game should still be in closed beta if they wanted any hope of commercial success. Going public with such a horrible piece of shit is insta kill

Fuck QC! Play more OSP!

Am I the only one in here that actually enjoy playing Sacrifice in QC?

What I do not like however, is if ID is giving in to the hitbox whine. The hitboxes should stay pixel perfect as they were. Hitting *AIR* between the arm-pit or legs should not count for a hit.

It's not that hard to hit those smaller champions. But turning their hitboxes into scaled versions of Spongebob Squarepants might be where they'll lose me. Unless some sane person stops them.

get well soon

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

Some brains I guess.

The issue is, players are not standstill statues, but move at insane speeds (and oftentimes warp/lag at insane levels). So while a sophisticated hitbox is great in case of standstill statues (OR, games with perfect netcode and servers), it simply does not work for real world competitive online fps

2,388
all-time peak

What the actual fuck? Really?

I remember some id people said to maybe expect Quake to be played by millions and millions of people.


Peak Players
Last 30 Days 390.2

This is just sad.

I didn't like the game from the beginning. Clumpy as fuck.

You seem to be mixing up peak with average, the last 30 day peak is still 1025

And that's something Timmy should be proud of?

Exactly, who gives a shit about 1k players?

Aren't you all easily forgetting something? Like, the game is still in EARLY ACCESS...?

I would call it EARLY GRAVE, but I guess it's just a matter of perspective.

pubg and fortnite are in early acces
played by millions

I agree, used to play around 10 games per day and do all my challenges since the game has functional matchmaking and is fun enough.

Ever since 5th of October patch ruined performance and introduced constant stutter, lowered fps, general lag etc I barely play a few games every few days. Three weeks later and all the delays and patches by my estimation the issues introduced on the 5th are 30% fixed at most.

These people defending the game still are probably paid off or are seeking future benefits from supporting this shit game.

Or just genuinely retarded. I wouldn't rule this out from the possibilities.

whens UT released

You who say ID are incompetent developer, well they rebooted Doom with great success, and Wolfenstein reboot was also a success (although developed by Machine Games). Unfortunately, I think they need to give up the whole e-sports thing and focus on the single player campaign, with the multiplayer as a cool addition, like Quake 1 and 2 were. The only esport that would work is the reboot of Quake 2 grapple ctf, people are getting tired of the Quake 3 style gameplay, and heroes don't seem to be enough to change their mind.

Basically, I think the trend is increasing towards single player experiences, and these so called e-sports will prove a dead end. So which e-sports are popular? the slow and dumbed down, face it, that's what people want, hence Starcraft 2 was a dumbed down Brood War, but that wasn't enough, so they removed the resource management alltogether and made into a team game, and we ended up with moba games of today, by far the most popular esport.

Second biggest are again team game fps with simplified mechanics and a turn-system with plenty of down time, when you die in Counter Strike you do not respawn immediately, again there are no powerups or resource management exept basic gun economy. It seems in this case "less is more" for the general public, maybe they prefer games that aren't very demanding and don't stress them out, it has to be a kind of brainless activity so you can turn off your brain and relax. Also, these games run on most computers.

The other esport I follow which is skill based is Street Fighter, now this is a beloved Capcom franchise with hugely iconic characters, but even this has experienced some pretty solid drop off, Street Fighter 5 has sold well below expectations and participation in Evo world championship has also dropped off.

It seems to me the peak has been reached with skill based e-sports and what people now demand are simplified and dumbed down, team-based. This goes for fps, people say Overwatch has heroes and shit but as Thorin stated in the DaHang interview, Overwatch can better be described as a moba with fps elements.

So to conclude, Quake is still the best esport in theory and on paper, but if you take into account motivations for playing competitive video games the image becomes clouded, the motivations for a single-player campaign are probably more akin to watching a tv series, and so called esports have an almost completely different motivation behind them, and this could be the reason Doom reboot was a sucess while QC has been a failure so far. I'm gonna stop rambling now!

well they rebooted Doom with great success

You mean the Doom that Bethesda made id make because Bethesda felt id's "Call of Doom" they were about to push out wasn't Doom enough. You mean that Doom? Even still, it was a pretty good 2016 game. No way was it a great all times game.

Game was boring, tried a couple times to force myself through it and couldn't do it. Walk through pathway/corridor/small rooms, collect ammo and whatnot, come to a big open area, kill a handful of enemies. Rinse, repeat. Nothing to break up the pacing, just the same... repetitive... boring... pace... the... whole... game.

And in Doom 3 UAC apparently didn't have tech advanced enough to attach a flashlight on a gun. In Doom UAC couldn't figure out how to put a scope and micro-missle launcher on a gun. And for that matter any other mods for other weapons that didn't interfere with one another. Or maybe it was just the devs that couldn't figure out how to do it. Suit mods/upgrades were kinda cool, weapons mods/upgrades not so much.

DOOM (2016) single player is pretty fucking nice (with a responsive engine that scales very well), especially if you take the fact into consideration that it's a 2016 FPS title. If every reboot were like that, I would be content somewhat.

Quake is still the best esport in theory and on paper

That's an awful strange way to spell "starcraft".

And you can bash csgo as much as you like but it requires way more thinking than quake.

Also it should be quite evident that id has always been incompetent(at least regarding game design, not engine) by the fact that even in the days with low to no competition it was always the community that fully developed their games to their full potential.

Cs requires what now? Skill? Laughable but mostly cringe POV.

Yeah, where exactly did you see that word in my post?

"And you can bash csgo as much as you like but it requires way more thinking than quake."

Waaaat..? I can understand there is quite some brains going on in the top CS league, but I can't possible grasp that CS players burn more think calories than quakeplayers, wether at mediocre or pro level?

Why? Is it the timing of some items that blows your mind or the simplistic A or B decisions that go with it? Or maybe it's the cessfest that is TDM?

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Ok, but what is it that makes CS more brainheavy than quake?

CS involves thought but the game is so much slower, what makes quake insanely difficult is how quickly you have to make decisions

This is exactly what I was thinking, and during this speed item timings and decision makings and positions takes some thinking, else there is CA for the rest of us.. :D

But I'm legit curious why CS is more brainheavy than quake, for me this sounds ridiculous.

Sounds like it could be a Quaker that's moved to CS, so currently it requires more thought and focus. I transitioned the other way, going back to CS now feels like a walk in the park

That could be it. It is easy to become so experienced in an activity that you do half of the decisions per automatic, but this doesn't work at top level as you have to get in the other players mind, and vice verse.

Whatever it is, Nzr0 knows something we don't know.

maybe he still doesn't have a DXRacer idk

It's not just you.

rounds, economy & objectives

Ok I'm sold.

to this day i am still waiting for a top level quaker to become a top level cs pro
while RAISY a cs player who wasnt even amazing at csgo (good but not world class) already dominates QC
I wonder which game is harder.

Raisy was never a top quake player

Bit of stretch to say Raisy is dominating QC. Hes won one lan. Garpy has won 2. Vo0 has gotten 2nd place twice. There are plenty of people either on par or exceeding raisys results

Not only that but I dont think QC is the game people are talking about here when discussing the skill cap of Quake. I dont think anyone would argue that QC isnt quite heavily dumbed down from QL which was already dumbed down from its predecessors

I would not pay too much attention to results for the minute.

Once the game is in a better, more rounded state, I think you'll see the usual suspects rise to the top.

Right now is the moment that winning matters. What's the point of winning in 2019, if the Quakecon prize pool is back to being $20,000 and the names that were winning before have already retired, in order to do more profitable stuff.

exactly, good post.
if Clawz wins nothing else ever then he's still the most successful quake player in history imo

His response had nothing to do with what I was responding too.

Being the best at a game which is not yet balanced/working right is not suitable grounds for concluding someone is better than someone else at the top.

it's all about the cheese, rappers know this well. focus on the cheese then gtfo.

source:
Get that cheese, hit the block, get that cheese, hit the block
Get that cheese, hit the block, get that cheese, hit the block
Get that cheese, hit the block, get that cheese, hit the block
Get that cheese, hit the block, get that cheese, hit the block

Hit the block, count that cash, get that cheese, get that dough
Hit the block, count that cash, get that cheese, get that dough
Hit the block, count that cash, get that cheese, get that dough
Get that cheese, get that dough, get that cheese, get that dough

https://www.lyrics.com//lyric/13118531/T.I./Hit+the+Block

other reading material:
https://www.lyrics.com/lyrics/cheese

QC doesnt count, it's not a Quake game.

Quakes greatly differ fron each other. So if we go with your thought, then Quake 1 in its Netquake form is the only Quake.

Raisy has been playing quake for years, he is not a "cs player" who came over. He just played both FPS games. Get a clue.

you know raisy is originally a quake live player, right? he played ql and was around 2200-2300 elo before he played cs. also qc doesn't require as much brain as ql. raisy wouldn't even be top 20 in ql.

I disagree that MOBA games are dumbed down. A game like DOTA requires a player to know huge amounts of information, like 100+ heroes, 100+ items, nuances/interactions between them and many more things. And you also have team cooperation. DOTA can actually be quite overwhelming to start playing and learning.

I'm not saying MOBAs are harder or easier than Quake. I think it's a different skill set. But the argument "these newer games are dumbed down" is highly subjective.

As for the singleplayer trend, don't know where are you getting this from.

DOTA is old as fuk.

They are dumb as shit son, what you're talking about is the highest level, at a basic level all you need to do is pick a cool looking hero/champion and then click around on the map a little, hell you can even leave the computer and "afk farm", so your character will automatically kill minions, when I played LoL that's what I did, I left the computer to do other stuff, my team still won the game and I was 3d in the team.

So the combat has been simplified and dumbed down from Broodwar days, and then all the base building and resource management is of course removed aswell. Not only that, even the damn map pool has been removed, there's only ONE MAP in these games, and you're telling me that isn't dumbed down, please you're dreaming.

This is what people want though, a basic, slow, streamlined, simplified experience, if you get stressed out by a computer game and it places high mental demands on you, creates another struggle/competition in your already miserable life, then what's the point? Don't you have enough stress dealing with work and other real life stuff? People just want to turn off their brain for a while and watch some shiny bullshit on screen. and of course you're "levelling up" and "upgrading" aswell, it's basically dangling some shiny thing in front of a cat, the human brain isn't and has never been more advanced than this.

What I'm saying in regards to single player games it's more about telling a story, like a tv series or something, the motivations behind playing a single player campaign and a esports title have to be fundamentally different, the first one is a 10-20 hours coherent storyline one time experience, while the second one is a neverending nightmare that can steal your life away. I think with Quake as with Doom and Wolfenstein ID have to create a single player campaign aswell, if nothing else to create mythos and lore for the characters and expanded universe, players need an emotional connection with the heros/champions.

Is there like a storyline you can follow, oh in Quake 1 this happened, and these were the bosses and Quake 2, it was a different planet etc, these single player experiences were a fundamental part of the games. Quake 3 got away with it for being an "early bird", but there are no early bird advantages anymore, the market is completely saturated with shooters. Video gaming is dying in my book, it's a dead end. One way of trying to remedy this is making story, lore and characters that players care about, maybe that's why people still play Street Fighter and Brood War in decent numbers, even though these are skill based games, and not just "pick cool looking character and click on computer generated enemies on the screen to level up".

Hell, Quake 1 single player is still even played as a speedrunning game, as is Half Life 1 etc, ID shouldn't ignore this market segment.

Have you even played dota? or just LOL?

There is no AFK farming in dota. You walk away you character is going to stand there doing nothing, and be dead probably within 30 second unless you hide in some bizzare place which again means you arent leveling and are weak.

It took me probably 200 games before I was anything more than a complete detremint to my team and now after 1000+ games I still consider myself below average, and understand probably less than half of what there is to know about general playing the game. As far as characters and items I understand probably less that 5% of what there is to learn.

To put it in perspective, once I got to the level where I had around 50% win rate I introduced a couple of my freinds to the game.

These freinds of mine, after around 100 games still sit at about a 20% win rate. You put that statistic into perspective it means, if you take a team of 5 players who all have 50% win rates, and you put my freind into that team then the entire team drops to a win rate of 20%.

That one bad player drops my winrate to 20% and I stopped using my favorite hero with my freinds cos my percentage was dropping from 59% wins on that character down towards their 20% inevitably.

The game is hard man. I know its in fashion to look down on dota but I really doubt you would not completly tank your teams chance of winning any matches for you first few months playing the game. You would be 20% win rate, and those 20% wins would be you getting carried and your team somehow winning despite you.

Its like that QC TDM where you teammate goes 2:25 KDR yet somehow your team still wins.

The thing is I would tank the team because I simply don't have the dota wikipedia engraved in my half-dead brain.

That's the biggest difference.
After that you have one hero with few skills.

this story sounds weird, are there not enough players to balance the game out to close to 50% winrate for all skills? That's what happens with my lots of friends with whom I've played tons.

Regardless, there are several hard skills in dota, like the race to figure out the metagame and the changed heroes before it gets patched out, map awareness, teamfighting ability, decisionmaking involving whether to fight / splitpush etc.


With that said the rest of the game is mostly small bits and pieces that by themselves aren't hard, you just learn enough of them and you will become a competent player relatively quickly. That's most of the stuff that you're mentioning your friends fail at, but look at it this way, is it impressive if most people that try can learn it in a thousand or two of games? It's just an accumulation of knowledge. That you're bad for a few months is hardly an argument for a game's difficulty.


That cannot be said of Quake or Starcraft, there is no proper limit to how good you can be at all of the core skills in the game, and you will reliably outclass other players who are worse than you barring a build advantage in starcraft.

So I guess what I'm saying is, of course dota is hard, it's a fucking videogame, however if we compare it to games that are in some senses somewhat similar like starcraft, it's a really lobotomized kind of a thing. It's just easy to see how much has been taken out of it.

I personally think that's the appeal, MOBAs allow you get to some skill level where you can rock paper scissors or luck your way into victory half the time and feel like you're owning, then lose half the time and blame your team. All the slippery slope mecahnics and fun RPG elements make it like crack for the brain and allow you to win convincingly quite often vs players of your skill level, which is a rush and fun. Unlike in Quake or SC, where those games will tend to be battles until the end with lots of effort required all the way. Just not the kind of experience most players are looking at, sadly.

i mean theres a steep learning curve at first but the top-end of gameplay have been dumbed down massively in the last few years

Good point.

But single player is not happening, for damn sure. At least not for QC.

I would imagine this could be possible for Quake 5, but realistically speaking we wont have both high-lvl SP and MP. Thats not possible now. Would require way too big budget, time and team which noone will invest on a declining market of a modern fps.

And i really hope to be wrong, but if qc is going to fail (i guess that means less than 1M copies sold, dunno what kpi bethesda set in front of id), then there wont be any next quake at all. Like, never. Just aint work anymore these days.

they rebooted Doom with great success, and Wolfenstein reboot was also a success

That's because both games have a face. Even a casual who's not a fan can stumble upon doom and think Hey, I'm in mood to play a gory scifi shooter like this. Same for Wolf. Both games also have pretty good graphics.
QC's visuals are unappealing and it's hard to make out what's its theme. Looks like it wants to be everything but is nothing.

I think the trend is increasing towards single player experiences, and these so called e-sports will prove a dead end

SP games are and always will be relevant, because they offer an actual story and are built around the player - you, noone else.
On the other hand, MP games will be at least as relevant, simply because of the fact that internet is now a social place, for the most part. Sure, esports is a joke, but it's a great milking cow too. It wouldnt make sense for bethesda to have three SP-oriented fps franchises and going for quake as their "esports" title seems pretty logical.

what people now demand are simplified and dumbed down

Dumbing down can also drive people away. Look at what happened to C&C, Street Fighter, Diablo or Starcraft.
Playing games is a mainstream thing now and has been for some time. Of course kids and avarage Joes dont have the patience or the intelligence to become extremely good in a complex game, but that doesn't mean there's no demand for such title.
Besides, you can have a game that's difficult to master and yet very accessible. Brood war was a great example with 1v1 and Moba communities. It's about the content and modes.


QC has pretty much no players because it's terribly flawed and there's nothing that would make either veterans or new players come back for more.

QC is not an in-house developed game. A huge part of QC's development was outsourced to Saber Interactive. QC is not an id software game, just like the latest Wolfensteins were not id software games.

Wanna know why QC sucks? Because it was outsourced to a cheap Russian studio, famous for being incompetent. They have only made horrible games and revivals of franchises. They actually managed to kill Halo, for a number of years. Id software didn't choose a good developer, like they did with Wolfensteins, but with Quake they chose a cheap one.

Wanna know why they go with Saber then, the cheap option? Because it soooo happened that the game was commissioned when the Russian currency had massively deflated. Now things make sense, don' they.

I sincerely think that if the engine isn't replaced with the latest in-house idtech, and Saber isn't replaced and removed from the project, then QC has no future whatsoever. This game badly needs an intervention: it doesn't work for the vast majority of casual players, and even the enthusiasts don't like playing it much.



And BTW, the reason Doom's SP turned out to be so good is that the game was not made by the same id software we Quakers have had to deal with over the years. For example:
1.- The company faced an intervention from Zenimax, when they didn't like the "Call of Doom" leaked footage. The project was re-made from scratch and hiring new people to do that, like Hugo Martin. He is the one behind Doom: a new employee. Say, what Syncerror (the guy in charge of Quake) did on that project was to only be "Additional support", at the very end of the credits.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkiowKPfX38
https://youtu.be/ADtf79UCARk?t=373
2.- Doom greatly benefited from John Carmack leaving the company, as what Zenimax did was to replace him with part of the Crysis games team. The team change is why the engines jump was so massive, from the first iteration of idtech5 (with its infamous AMD bug that made Rage tank in user reviews), to idtech6 (gorgeous and flawless performance in Doom4).

The id software from say 2014 is a different company than the id from 2015. Too bad Quakers had to deal with the 2000-2014 one (awful), and now have to deal with the infamous Saber Interactive. And well, with Syncerror again. Doom and Wolfenstein fans have not.

The new Doom feels so nice. If they'd make a more quake-like mutliplatyer from that with strafejumpingand brightskins and no gimmicks (remove double jump) it would have a lot of potential

Street Fighter V is really uninspiring. it failed to keep the momentum coming from USF4, even if in the first year everyone gave it a shot and Evo had ~5000 entrants.

QC on the other hand, had no momentum behind it and fails to appeal both to casuals and long term fans. like you said earlier, in case of Quake, banking on a solid singleplayer experience is the only way to build a fanbase for the multiplayer.

even DOOM (2016) had/has more people playing its multiplayer component.

CTF would have worked well, sadly these idiots didnt include it

It's on its way, but will most likely be a bugfest the first 6 - months.

+ a couple of years for few maps

Yeah sadly there so few decent map right now, I only play TDM so cant comment on the other maps, some of the current TDM maps are terrible, that cave map is shocking Ive only played it twice as it never gets voted as its a abomination. We need more more maps and some decent team based games

The cave map I assume is lockbox and it's fairly fun in deathmatch. In tdm however it can be very one sided games, especially if one of the teams exploits galena and spend the whole game camping quad room, spamming totems and infinite ammount of rail ammo, because apperantly that's a thing.

You can easily counter that in 2 ways:

1) Your team simply won't go there at all. Let them rot there alone. ) They will be vulnerable when they decide to move out.

2) You won't play this abomination of a game and you come to QL #tdmpickup more frequently instead. : >

For me, the worst map is Tempest Shrine, both in TDM and DM, my God...abomination...

That's prolly the best map in this junk.

classic ctf won't work at all. they'll need to gimp it like in ow, add 5s (or similar) stay on flag before you can steal it shit, etc. by the time they're done with ctf it's not gonna be ctf at all.

it'd be better if they invest that time in to improving sacrifice as much as they can instead of reinventing the wheel again with ctf, like they did with duel.

I've gotten bored of spectating the tournaments. That's bad.

the game was unplayable for a whole month because of the performance ever since the recent big patch until they fixed clients loosing frames upon player respawn, and netcode still seems worse than it was before

add to that the hitbox and general hitreg problems are a lot more apparent now that lg bug was removed from the game

Im just not going to play a game where there is people warping and stuff not registering in 2017, period. I dont care the features, modes and whatever when the bare bones of a online fps are not there.

im sure if someone shaves their head, the population will grow back right?

the QC closed/open beta experience made me download QL instead of buying early access for QC... never really played QL before (only a couple of times when it was still a browser game).

So, you're not THE german fragmaster?

huh? this has been my name since i first played q3 test on lan lol.

This is the one I know, he played his last game march this year:

http://www.qlstats.net/player/14781#overall

that's not me ;)

Yeah I figured. He's a good player though. Hope you enjoy QL.

WEW WHERES MY LADDER SO I CAN WAIT 30+ MINS FOR A DUEL CUZ THATS ALL THE GAME WITH 200 PLAYERS NEEDS

probably because its shit

a variation of Clan Arena with 2 champions per round would actually be interesting

this game desperately needs a pub mode that you can simply jump into.. FFA is not very friendly, you can't be carried by your team or take the heat of losing

Yeah and tdm only has "team" in its name, in game it's just a slightly less chaotic ffa where players don't give a fuck if a teammate needs health or weapons. I have played so many games where mega have been picked up in front of my nose when I have quad, or spawning after death and an Anarki sweeps every single item nearby. After the game it gets so obvious they don't favor the best team, but the 3 best individual players. Sad.

An actual proper teammode would be nice, I don't care for sacrifice.

They should reinstate friendly fire, it was there in quake originally anyway. Then all the a-holes and noobs would suddenly be forced to pay attention ot the existence of teammates. :)

That's been the trend for a long while however, QC just took it one step further. QW TDM is by far the best team mode the series has. Q2 TDM isn't bad either. Q3/QL TDM was a big step backward but it had momentum so people looked the other way because for a while it was fairly active. In the end however the Q1/Q2 TDM scenes lasted far longer and they were much better teamplay games.

Even if they do add CTF to QC it'll suck because of all the other changes the game has made. Weak armors, plentiful ammo and weapons, silly champions, drop powerups, etc. QC barely works for duel and is completely broken for teamplay modes.

Truth!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2IrIjh1tww

I used to regularly play with some of those guys in there. Blood was one of the top QW CTFers for a long ass time but eventually ended up in TDM. I always argued with him that TDM was better (no broken resist rune). Bogojoker was my team mate in a 2v2 league I ran years back. I loved QW TDM but eventually it died enough that even I moved on from it.

Always happy when DDK can commentate QW TDM because not only is he passionate about it but he actually was a player. He understands it and can make others understand it too.

This reminded me of a comment I made here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/reflex/comments/4gpr...l/d2k1hn7/

I was initially hyped for Reflex because I thought they'd finally get "it", and make a real teamplay mode. I couldn't have been more wrong. QC also doesn't get it. Diabotical is about the only chance left for AFPS at this point.

Yes, but in order to be successful the pub friendly mode also needs to be the main gametype of the game. In OW, CS and even PUBG there's a clear main gametype, and so is the one most played.

I don't think the devs are willing to go as far as changing their plans. They are going to stay with the good old Quake plan of splitting the playerbase in a hundred gametypes, and the actual competitive ones not being the most played ones in pub servers.

Just remove TDM, replace Sacrifice with something more fun to play in pub play, and put that new gametype as the main one. Only ranked option, because the playerbase is already too small to again split it, in ranked and casual modes. Then put FFA, duel and upcoming ones in a second tier, not the main or fast option to play. It's what everybody does, except id software. Heck, it's even what they did in Doom and somehow they don't in their multiplayer-focused game.

In CS it was an organic way of choosing the main mode. There used to be 3 modes way back in the days with hostage rescue, defusal and vip (cs_, de_ and as_ maps). Defusal became the standard for competitive play as CS maps were chosen less and less by teams and finally removed due to their campy nature. On public servers the cs_ maps were played a lot for a long long time after de_ maps had become the standard for competition while as_ died out as everyone hated to play the VIP and the game mode favored the defenders too much.

QL already showed that people don't care what someone says is the "main mode" as duel was the main competition mode while TDM seemed to be slightly favored over CTF in tournaments, but most played CA and CTF on public team games. If they had suddenly removed CA and CTF to force everyone into TDM then they would have lost most of their player base overnight.

Not sure if it is funny or just sad when people think that limited or no choice is the way to success for a game such as QC. They've already lost the interest of a lot of people by excluding CTF and CA, the two most played team modes in public play in QL and their lackluster TDM and seriously boring sacrifice mode did little to fill the void. Lacking variety also leads to getting bored much faster and a game like quake needs at least two team modes to give enough variety IMO. Would have been hilarious if id had followed your train of thought though as QC would be sacrifice only and even deader than it currently is.

The day when ranked becomes the fastest way to find a game in QC is the day when I'm permanently done with it. Not that it's any good in it's current iteration, but playing public like it is super-serious is not my kind of game. If I want somewhat serious play I go play a pickup and if I want serious play I go join a clan, but guess the new school of gamers find that too hard.

I'll just leave this here....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P11L6Ul239c

https://clips.twitch.tv/ColorfulPlayfulSwanBudBlast

thank you

@ 30s: The most lovecraftian thing in the game yet.

underrated post

have they taken any steps to make the game smoother? i won't play a quake game where i can't get 120 fps consistantly.

QC is utter shit. Wrong concept, losed drama in matches, fcked up balance of guns and all of them feels weird in 2K17. It's still not FPS about duels on rocket launchers and rocketjumps. Most stupid idea ever to reanimate Q3:A corpse. It's not working anymore and never really was. Look at Reflex Arena or any other game and now look at QC.

Peak player data from steam.

Monday Aug 29th: 2006
Monday Sep 11th: 1193
Monday Sep 25th: 788
Monday Oct 9th: 863
Monday Oct 23rd: 628
Monday Nov 6th: 469

Well if Bethesda Launcher didn't force you to download the whole 11GB install again just for a little update I might still be playing it.

Who cares?
I bet its less than a 1 hour download for you.

That sucks if he has only one hour of time to play.

True, but to a lot of random people this would also give indications of what the game might be.
If the launching client is prehistoric and barely working, being the brand representer of the whole company, just think what pieces of crap individual products might be.

In this case of it is even worse - the launcer is totally broken and so is the game and for over half a year the developer has shown over and over again that they do not give a fuck and that they have no intention of fixing anything.

I'd hate to be the local donut shop right now.

tbh i would enjoy QC a lot if it weren't for the shitty performance and horrible netcode, i like how they mashed together different movementsyles to suit different kind of players.
i enjoy watching QC duel, i kind of enjoy abilities(i didn't at first but now i don't mind them) and i enjoy QC tdm if i get matched with equally skilled players on both teams.

the ugly truth is though, that there will always be a ability that is OP, a movementsyle that is OP etc.
also i doubt they'll be able to fix whatever the hell is wrong with the engine.
ALSO, stupid to lift the NDA so early, stupid to have 1 million dollar tournament in a buggy and broken game - shit was clearly rushed just for the sake of quakecon

Well said

No Carmack No Quake

half a year later, and we still see stuff like this on a regular basis.

lmao, rapha just suck, he shot through Nyx's armpit

Lets face it, people are tired of and disgusted by these never-ending fps releases, pretty much all of them have been massive failures, including recently Battleborn and Lawbreakers. These were titles with major economic resources and development time behind them but it didn't help, they were doomed from the start. if it's not related to Blizzard or Valve people want nothing to do with it, they stay clear of it like dog turds on the street.

Even Call of Duty is selling a lot worse these days, its gonna keep declining, now they're trying with the ww2 crap again, it's pathetic tbh. This pubg thing with battle royal type vast world seems "fresh" now (actually it's been around for many years), but it will too become stale and regurgitate itself. Quake still has some legacy as a single player franchise, ID should focus on this, and building characters and lore. This esports stuff is a dead end

the world is ready for a good christian game imo with gothic times new roman fonts.
gb hf

the choice of fonts have been a big let down recently

id software still can make single player games based on the doom or rage lore ... quake 1/2/4 sp wasnt that great tbh., q1 wasnt bad, but it only got great because of all the community content, but not really because of original sp content. Take a look around, there havent been too many commerically succesful gothic sp games ...
maybe if they change the quake universe so much as that it resembles bioshock, they could have a chance ... but then it wouldnt have a lot in common with q1 except for the name ...


the call of duty ww2 edition trailer doesnt really make a good impression compared to the modern warfare trailers, it looks like a historical war movie and not like some arnold schwarzenegger action movie which the modern call of duty is known for ... and the gameplay videos dont show much innovation either ... not a good recipe for big sales ...

that being said, there is some innovation happening on the fps market, as can be seen on twitch, player unknown battleground and fortnite battle royal have a lot of viewers ... I like to watch pubg too, although I dont play it and dont want to (dont really like stale movement and hitscan only weapon game there you can be oneshotted by people doing nothing but camping and the game is over for you) ... but for viewing pros its perfect, because there are not so intense scenes where the player can talk about the game or with his coop guys and pros can also actually play well enough to not get one shotted by campers, but it happens to them as well ... and these two games are not around for so long and they are in the top 5 games on twitch ...

tbh. I think Quake Champions is good enough already in early access ... it has the quakefeeling and its fun to play ... maybe some competetive players are not good at the new meta and are at disadvantage compared to their old quake game ... but if you go at it with a fresh mind, I dont see whats wrong with QC from a gameplay perspective ...
id needs to have better quality assurance though, a fuckup as with the lg causes a lot of anger and complaining in the community ...

quake 1/2/4 sp wasnt that great tbh

q1 & q2 sp was great - especially for its era...

I think Quake Champions is good enough already in early access ... it has the quakefeeling and its fun to play ...

couldn't disagree with this statement more

q1 q2 sp were good sp but not great, and they were mainly good because of their superior graphics at that time, especially q1 ... and of course because of the moddability, Duke Nukem 3D on the other hand had worse graphics for example, but was a much more modern sp experience ... and Half Life just stomps the quake series into the ground sp wise ... luckily its based on the q1 engine :-)

QC has some technical problems that need to be fixed, but gameplay is good, but still needs to be balanced out for competition ... and of course ranked played still needs to be added ...

yepp, the game should have been a godlike singleplayer game in the vein of Quake1..
and dumping this multiplayer early access gamble on top of it would've actually made sense.

right now, this game is for no one.

and here we are again, listing what should have been done instead of what has been done.

Just like when in QL we asked for proper matchmaking, ladders, newbieprotection and ingame community features and they gave us loadouts, force maps at gamefinish and killed the webclient.

Just like when in QL we asked for proper matchmaking, ladders, newbieprotection and ingame community features and they gave us loadouts, force maps at gamefinish and killed the webclient.

Well, at least we got an incredible announcer's voice update :-)

yep.

:( yeah it is really like the developer doesn't want it to be a success.

Haven't played in over a month and have no intentions to.

Garbage.

Well, it's eggbot time !!! Where is James ?

Playing QC.

looking dire: http://steamcharts.com/cmp/611500,282440,379720

hilarious. obviously not enough texture detail and lens flare effects.

lootboxes that drop from the sky, blocking your way to that clutch health pickup would also help. also all the various bugs should become features that noone wants to be fixed. this can be achieved by adding a trading card system - once a bug occurs, you win a card depicting the responsible id guy for that specific effect.

It's funny that brad new game has less players than a dead game (:

Seems like December update gained 300+ players that are still active until today (peak players)

???

http://steamcharts.com/app/611500

Still more playing QL
http://steamcharts.com/app/282440

I'm so confused why ID doesn't learn from CS and reskin / texture quake live/quake 3 arena.... its so silly, cs has done it twice now!

The reason is that CS never died, in the sense that its playerbase was HUGE, so it easy to convert players from 1.6 > Source > GO and still be profitable.

Quake playerbase is died, so its playerbase is small, so even if you can move all players Q3 > QL > QC it does not really matter, there is no money in that playerbase, they need a new playerbase.

That aside, they should have used their own engine idtech. They own it already duh. It has all the requied features built in such as were all coded back in doom3 and quake4 such as server browser, console, custom maps and so many more. You know they will never manage to code all this stuff into buggy saber. Its either going to take decades or they just wont do it at all.

At any rate you are right to be confused why they think they can make this game on saber engine at less cost that idtech but here we are anyway.

Maybe its because Quake 4 was idtech and they dont think that worked out (that isnt fair because they outsourced that game)

Maybe because doom4 mp did not work out (again its unfair they outsourced it)

Or maybe Tim is just sick of coasting off of the carmack engine and hey look, we can do just as good ourselves with a new engine? Whoops ohwell.

CSGO wasn't popular until they spent months upon months fixing it. Properly fixing, not "here's some skins" kind of fixing, at least from what I heard.