Painkiller wasn't THAT different.
What else can you do in fps? Projectile, hitscan, rakiets, lg, rail, plasma, shotgun can't go anywhere else without some shitty gimmicks.

It had the forward air control and weapons that worked a lot differently.
I remember Fat talking about how he tried to play it like Quake in the beginning and it didn't work at all.

It's been 15 years since then. I remember having a gauntlet like melee weapon, stake gun, rockets/heavy machine gun combo, and an LG like weapon.

Matches did work different enough to Quake due the movement but it's still the same formula. I think pacmanpl is right: you can't do much else besides gimmicks regarding weapons. Q3 has all the archetypes covered in a pretty distilled form.

Maybe at some point someone will introduce a whole new paradigm of weapons but it hasn't happened yet. Not saying it's impossible, though.

Yeah, you're both wrong. There is something to do which is to continue the CPM lineage, which is to add more skill dependent actions WITHOUT removing any. Add crouchsliding and teleport weapon interaction, maybe wall jumps, maybe triple jumps, maybe other shit I haven't seen. Yes the weapons are all done, but they always take second place to the physics in how the game plays. You can add the plasma gun to CS and it won't change the game nearly as much as, say, removing the speed cap. Because the weapons follow the physics. If you switch the PK aircontrol for regular bunnyhopping that will alter the game way more than if you turn the stake into a railgun.

BUT since even reflex didn't have the common sense to pick up the mantle and copy the philosophy instead of just copying the gampelay, I'm not holding my breath for anything.

So this is a bit of a shameless self-plug I'll admit (I'm sharing this for genuine discussion reasons though) - I've explored some physics-related mechanics in my Uber Arena mod which you may find interesting:

- Item Knockback: Use splash damage from weapons like the RL to knock away items, letting you deny items from other players or help to knock down out-of-reach items.

- Trampolines: A map-specific mechanic that works similar to jump pads and accel pads, but they reflect velocity instead of providing a fixed boost - think the repulsion gel from Portal 2.

- Crouching Deceleration: Lets you use the crouch button to decrease your upwards velocity (no effect on falling); mainly designed to work with trampolines so you don't spend forever hanging in the air; can also be used with some jump or accel pads to land on platforms faster.

Also, besides weapons, there's new power-up ideas that could be explored for TDM / CTF. For example, Uber Arena has a Scavenger power-up that lets you pick up items with your weapons.

I've also been partial to Q4's teleporting projectiles and grenade-jump pad interaction, and QL's keys / locked doors (as seen in Elder) are a great idea that I feel warrants exploration in future arena FPS titles.

Yeah, shit like this is exactly what I'm talking about. There is lots of room for creativity, but all the time someone thinks of something cool they decide it should replace something rather than just add it in. And then the depth stays the same. But when you don't remove it the depth is compounded and may even take some time to actually find out where it is - like with the groundboost that was introduced (or rather discovered) in CPM in 2008!

Very nice. I like your ideas. Are you a game developer?

Thank you! I am not a full-fledged game developer; something like that is outside of my grasp at this point. But I do enjoy modding and developing other small programs, and all of the ideas I mentioned are indeed fully coded and playable in Uber Arena if you'd like to try them out: https://www.moddb.com/mods/uber-arena

Yeah, I watched the trailer last night. Started with something like Excessive Quake. Couldn't like this mod - it was too excessive :)

edit: I hope someone hires you. Says you're in the states where most of the industry is. Do your thing and fix the genre. For you, for us, for everyone

I like the way you write and think. Have you written any fictional stories?

Yeah i always tought that at least the wall jump mechanic of Warsow would be a nice addition in quake 3. To keep momentum and mobility even in VQ3.

Also weapons like the flak cannon from UT add that interesting out-of-sight bouncing damage ability that the grenade launcher doesn't satisfy in the same way. Maybe done differently, like with a single fast moving ricocheting bullet.

Also the shock combo is very cool and requires skill to pull off mid combat, i always tought the same could be done with rocket launcher and railgun, without the need to add weapons

I thought it was very different and i really enjoyed it, very unique game.

Singleplayer is fun, big bosses where a BIG thing back then <3

And really tough too!

because progress and change are two seperate words?

I think a lot of it is because of Quake 3's gameplay elegance and design. While the original Quake is definitely a solid multiplayer game, the fact of the matter is that it was first and foremost designed as a single player game with the multiplayer aspects coming second. Same deal with Quake 2. This is especially evident in the weapon design. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with, say, having two shotguns (one weak / one strong), but pressed for an opinion, I prefer the simplicity of just having one moderately powerful shotgun. Q3's arsenal feels about as perfectly elegant as one can get, with every weapon serving a distinctly useful niche and not overlapping with others. The drive for simplicity and elegance is also evident in the visuals; the weapons are color-coded and thematically neutral (makes sense in a game with environmental diversity like Quake 3). It's aesthetically pleasing.

There's good arguments both for and against this philosophy. I agree that arena FPS in general could stand to get outside of their comfort zone and embrace different paradigms; there's no point in making a new arena FPS if you aren't going to at least try to make it stand out. I also don't think it has to necessarily be an overly-radical departure either; QC may be very similar to Quake 3 in many aspects but the Champions are undeniably a huge game changer, enough to be seen as innovative (for better or worse; I'm neutral on them). It's the same, but also very different, if that makes sense.

I personally like cel-shading because it symbolizes the simplistic mathematical beauty of Quake's movement mechanics fairly well. But the grungy / dark aesthetic of classic Quake, Q3, and QC works just as well to emphasize the hardcore, unforgiving nature of the genre. Neither is really "wrong" and it just depends on what aspect of arena FPS you want to highlight.

^
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rare good ESR comment nowadays ;D

wow someone actually wrote a well thought out reply in ESR in like 5 years :)

have you tried militia?

From what I understand tennis still only involves the same projectile weapon system of rackets and balls, which they used for ages. I don’t understand why they don’t innovate as it’s obviously oudltdated and by no means creates interesting duels.. /s

All jokes aside, I think fundamentally Quake 3 has the right weapons. Other weapons tend to get gimmicky pretty fast. The only one perhaps missing is a stake gun. A sniper like projectile weapon.

quake3 came out at an opportune time. cpl came around and consistent "high" stakes tournaments started popping up. this made it the de facto standard competitive arena fps for 5 or so years

quake1/2 players from what I understand at the time in 99 thought the game was not very good. quake3 also to date has sold less copies than either one. regardless, people are going to move to the game that's getting supported competitively, so people did.

conservatism at this point was deeply rooted. every arena fps appeals to picking up the core q3 playerbase in an attempt to coax them to at least try different games. the alternative is risking being dead on arrival. seems like a terrible strategy in retrospect considering how small that community has been in the past 15 years

with regards to q3, i think it had to do with it being a pure multiplayer only game. previous quake games had a single player component, but with q3 they didn't care to develop a campaign at all. it was later outshined by cs which was a much better game in terms of team play.

but the rest i couldn't agree more. for example, all of my overwatch buddies quit qc because of how terrible it was as a class based team game. there was no emphasis on having characters with their own roles and weapons and base stats. they just wanted to layer the existing resource management of armors, weapons and health with characters which was retarded af. it killed sacrifice and quake champions' hopes of being an overwatch alternative. didn't help that they also recycled general maps and just edited them slightly to poorly fit sacrifice.

at this point the 1v1 only players should switch to whichever genre is relevant, the team based afps players should embrace overwatch and valorant, and id software should make single player quake a thing again. that's the only thing that has a chance of selling millions of copies. another multiplayer game is just going to fail unless it's dramatically different with an emphasis on team games, and good at the same time.

I don't really have time to go into an analysis here but the ruleset debate has, and, if what's left of this community survives and grows into the coming years and decades, will continue to be a heated and crucial one. And rightly so because the attraction to the quake 3-style ruleset has been borne, I think, more of quake 3's commercial importance and large playerbase compared to games with differing rulesets, than the inherent value of its ruleset.

Perhaps even more fundamentally, the thinking that has gone into successive Quake titles has unfortunately (God help us) been subject to the crude or simply non-competitive-oriented interests of amateurs and casuals such as Carmack (who, to his credit, actually listened a good deal to competitive experts, not including Thresh), Willits and the general PC gaming crowd. Quake Champions was arguably the most profoundly disappointing example of this. What has gone on at Id Software and that company's increasing reluctance to regard highly the views of competitive players has been central the community's decline over the years. Another story for another time, though.

Any prolonged exposure to the QW ruleset at an intermediate to high level of play - the tiered armour, mega time mechanic, movement system and physics, should convince players that this ruleset is superior to the others by comparison. Most QW players transitioned to Q3 for the latter's popularity, not for the quailty of the game. Correspondingly, I have talked to many competitive QW players who have attested to the inferiority of Q3.

Not to seem overly-biased to QW - I'm not - but the jury is definitely out on Q3 as the best ruleset. Over the years I have yet to see a convincing, or even a rigorous, argument in favour of Q3 over the other rulesets. Not that forum-based discussion lends itself to that - but we've barely scratched the surface of this discussion.

tiering armors just makes it so you can't break the control of the other player by cycling weaker armors. you are forced to fight for the highest tier powerups because you will be capped at a certain amount, which is part of the reason why the scores can get out of control in qw and cpm to an extent. i would say ztn in q3, even with the lame ass railgun, is more fun and balanced than in qw, because of the ability to cycle the yellow when out of control, waiting for the right opportunity to strike.

mega timing is also worse, you have to do guess work of your opponent's hp after every fight and you can only be certain of it coming up within 5-10 seconds. whereas with the 35 second mh you can hear your opponent pick it up and then immediately figure out when the next mega is coming up. it's also available more often than the other megahealth timing because you don't have to wait for your opponent to drop to 100hp.

i'm still strongly against the railgun and it's why i hate playing cpm based games, but i wouldn't mind a game that combines the non tiered armor and 35 second megahealth of vq3 with the movement of qw or cpma. for weapon balance i would prefer cpma with the exception of having no railgun. qw balance is fine for 4v4 but absolutely terrible for duel maps.

also, with the exception of a handful of european players, most of the players that switched to quake 3 were netquake or early quake 2 era players. they didn't have anywhere near the same skill level or speed of quakeworld players like lakerman and later players like dag, griffin, reppie milton etc. same with quake 2, you can watch demos of those supposed players who thought q3 was slower and they move like it's netquake. they don't have anywhere near the mastery of movement or agressive playstyles like purri, dahang, damiah, david etc. so i feel like it's kind of a bs analysis by those older players who felt shown up by the newer talent. just like how the top bw pros were saying starcraft 2 is an easy game and then failed to dominate as expected.

ultimately though, i think all of this is irrelevant to why these games are not popular. it has more to do with the idea of 1v1 in fps not appealing to the market, the team modes being absolute trash, and the development of these games always being lackluster.

I would have thought tiered armors would favor the out of control player who is hiding, whereas the in-control player who has the RA or YA can't cycle the lesser armors.

I see where you're coming from here regards armor and mega but I don't actually see how that makes it more 'fun' or 'balanced' - your argument here could easily be turned on its head. Many will say that the increased uncertainty in the mega timing will make the game more interesting. Same with the tiered armor. It creates a strategic obstacle and makes item control more than just keeping numbers in your head. Is there something particularly important about knowing precisely when the item appears?

Railgun I have never really made my mind up about. I think hitscan is pretty low brow generally.

Quake players transitioning to Q3 I won't comment on further except to say, sure it could just be a big cope but skill and understanding are not the same thing and I don't blame NetQuake/QW players for finding VQ3 in the early days a bit lacklustre - the maps in particular were dogshit except for ztn. Same with StarCraft 2 - we all know which game is preferable.

I agree that the subtleties of rulest comparison are lost on the mass market, for the most part. But I disagree that the 1v1 mode is not appealing to the market. Its simplicity in style and substance, the emphasis on player character and the clash of personalities and styles, makes it an obvious choice for entertainment. At a minimum there's nothing inherent to it that would prevent it from being popular.

Ugh, excuse me, but have you tried playing QW/Q2/Brood War recently? They play like shit.

I enjoy watching ASL as much as the next game but actually playing Brood War is pain. Literal pain. SC2 can get a bit tedious, true, but all they have to do is introduce a few changes every now and then. Maybe remove stupid units such as sentries and adepts.

tiering armors just makes it so you can't break the control of the other player by cycling weaker armors. you are forced to fight for the highest tier powerups because you will be capped at a certain amount, which is part of the reason why the scores can get out of control in qw and cpm to an extent. i would say ztn in q3, even with the lame ass railgun, is more fun and balanced than in qw, because of the ability to cycle the yellow when out of control, waiting for the right opportunity to strike.

meh

you really think someone like cooller would let you get full stack and cycling the yellows before he finally engages a fight ?

look, untiered armors doesn't mean you'll be able to get 200 200 by only cycling the yellows, that doesn't make sense at all, you seem to miss one crucial point that is usually you get caught wayyyyy before getting even 150armour points out of yellows, and that you also have to take into consideration that there's positioning and that quake isn't a turn based strategy game

and you also seem to have missed the fact that stealing yellows from out of control player is a common thing to happen

so here's just a game off the top of my head where cypher managed to do exactly what im talking about vs cooller, and on lan at that.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwppm6VgHi8&t=45m13s

you can see that for most of the game he's been pushed out of the main powerups and forced to rely solely on the 2 yellows. as you said he does take damage in the process, but he still manages to keep away, do chip away damage and keep himself alive long enough to build some stack. if he dies, he tries again.

whereas if it was qw or even just qc, he would see a secondary armor and not be able to pick it up, because he's already reached his tiered armor limit. he has to go to a heavy armor to "overstack" or fight for a mega (which he wouldn't know exact timing of since it's 20s after opponent drops to 100hp). now qc has other characters you can pick that let you go up to 125 armor without decay, and qw there's even a map called dm2 where it has 2 red armors, 2 megas, and 3 yellows. but it's not the same thing as having the universal freedom to pick up whatever armor is available.

non tiered armors and 35 second mega is just way better, and i wish there was a game that combined it with air control, fast weapons, and removed railgun from the game. too late for that though since 1v1 fps is permanently dead and will always be rejected by the market.

You're omitting the fact that the in-control player has to damage himself in order to get yellows, which at the same time will have less maximum armor AND provide worse protection at the same time. BOTH players have to constantly make that choice, not just one. Whereas in non-tiered there's no choice - you just keep cycling no questions asked.

And scores getting out of hand has NOTHING to do with armors - it's all about the ability to force fights. VQ3 always had very little of that, BUT it had the old spawn system which let you force spawn frags. That was the final nail in the QL coffin - it's at that point that all the control in the world only amounts to 1 frag, because "spawnrape" is mean to noobs and the inbred devs have dumbed down the game around it. It's at that point you get 10:6 games on AEROfuckingWALK under MULTIPLE OVERTIMES.

you are correct that the player in control would have to self dmg in order to deny yellows and leave himself more open to dmg, but that's not the point. there's few situations where you can play like that anyway, and if you always try to pacman everything in cpm or qw like cooller you will get killed, because you've left yourself so wide open to damage. cpm and qw are too fast paced to have a one dimensional playstyle like that.

but no matter what if i am out of control and i have 100 armor i can't pickup a green, and if im 150 and my opponent is 200, i can't pick up a yellow or a green. with non tiered armor system, i can pick them up, but the tradeoff is that there is decay on armor above 100 and that the amount of armor points is less. i like this system more, and i think it gives people more options when they're in bad situations, as opposed to tiered armors which are stronger and have no decay but have upper limits for each armor.

while spawn system was patched many times in ql and directly led to less spawn forcing, there's also just the fact that vq3 physics don't allow for aggressive play. the slower movement speed, the ability to slow the pace of the game with railgun, and the change to 10 minute duels from 15 minutes is what makes people play like that. hard to take risks when you have less time in a game that's already defensive to begin with.

While I agree with the railgun hate I think you're mistaken in blaming it, the speed and time limit for the defensive play. It's more an issue of being predictable due to the absence of aircontrol. Every time you press jump you're making yourself a very easy target for 700 ms, thus all the camping. Of course it's made worse by having the railgun in there, but aircontrol is the bigger change. And then it is made worse by the absence of spawnrape. In q3 you could have things like comebacks because you could convert map control to a series of frags after which you have to basically fight for map control again. In QL you can only get 1 frag for your map control, so once more you're completely disincentivized from being aggressive. I think you need not look further than dm13 to confirm this - it's by far the slowest map of them all and it has no railgun.

It's at that point you get 10:6 games on AEROfuckingWALK under MULTIPLE OVERTIMES.

what's wrong with it ? ;>

i like the tension of low scored games having multiple overtime

What tension? All the games are low scoring, it's just fucking slow, not tense. Tension is watching a CPM game end 25:23 when the frag difference never exceeded 3 BECAUSE it could always go into full on rape.

tension of perfect positioning, traps, keeping map control or doing what you can out of control, listening to sounds, agressive at the right time, defensive at the right time

high scores doesn't mean it's necessarily more action packed, just a different type of action, in cpm doing plenty of frags is common, which could, for certain people, make it too repetitive and "eye-candy-rapping" boredome

i mean, at vq3, even if you don't make a frag, you do others things, like learning to be patient, thinking of your next move, doing max amount of dmgs with getting lowest amount in return

don't get me wrong, cpm is fine, it's a good gametype, but just too fast and non-stop action that it just can appeal to everyone

there's a reason people play CS/valorant

there's a reason why soccer is the most popular sport of all times

Wow, just thinking about stuff is doing something, amazing.

it is actually dude, trust me

i'm not hating you nor hating cpm, i love cpm

i'm just trying to convince you that from a balanced perspective, vq3 (i mean more like cq3/ql/diab), cpm is inferior, and that's mainly why it's a niche mode within a niche game, and mainly why reflex failed and cpm as a whole never really took off, compared to vanilla quake

you can't expect such a hardcore and ADHD game to be mainstream nor saying it's superior to everything, cuz it's like saying F1 is much harder than soccer, both at very highest level are insanely hard, just that soccer is more accessible

No, you're right, F1 isn't harder than soccer.

at the very highest level it isn't

at "average" level it is

That's beyond retarded. Footballers can't even drive an F1 car, that would be like an F1 driver not being able to kick a ball.

soccer isn't only about kicking a ball you know :D

you lucky i'm tired as fuck cuz of work ;D

will prolly reply later :>

QW is cool but the players seriously overestimate just how sophisticated "qwtdm" is.

It takes somebody with a good depth of knowledge and ideally competitive experience to make a serious comparison with other games. DDK is one of those players.

QW ruleset would not work with Q3. Still Q3 > QW

I'm seeing some discussion about railgun. I want to add that I never liked how the rail can so quickly swing duel games against a player who has more control and better positioning. The fast reload times in all Quakes since Q3 make it so a people often win fights off of aim alone by hitting two or three in a row. Plus all the competitive map pools I ever see never have more than one map without rail.

Even though I enjoyed Q3 very much and was successful in 1on1 on a national level, I actually made a similar observation and lost interest in actively competing because of it.
The reason though is slightly different.

Q3A actually worked perfectly when it came out, or at least during the first OSP versions. Thing is, we didn't have computers that could render at 1000 fps and cap it to 125 back then, and we started with ballmice and had only some crappy initial optical mice available.

So Q3A in the beginning was very rocket-dominant. NOBODY had nearly the aim to win a game with shaft and rail alone. Also, nobody knew the maps in and out, as they knew today.

Rockets and brains is what made you win duels. And that was brilliant, and the reason why I loved the game so much and also why I was successful in it.

More and more though, the game became practiced, and with newer hardware, aim with instant-hit weapons (LG, RG, ..) became increasingly better and overpowering.
At some point it felt like a 10% advantage in aim could overpower the other player's 50% advantage in intelligence.
Also, the constantly rising jump height because everyone was just at 125 fps all the time meant players would inreasingly rush into close quarter fights and just spam the jump button, trying to jump over rockets, which made the initially very efficient "aim rockets at their feet" much less effective.

CPMA and its further increase in aiming potential put the final nail in the coffin.
And QL was just an entirely different thing.

Q3, as we (the ones playing it since Q3Test 1999) knew it probably died sometime around 2002, 2003 at the latest.

explain why rapha and cypher got prolly one of the best, if not the best rockets out of all the pros, and prolly same for their gamesense/brain, then

They don't. As of right now, the best rockets belong probably to Vengeur. But there isn't really someone standing out, even with the other weapons. All the pros hit incredibly hard in QC, maybe only toxic and vengeur stand out a little, but not by much. Cheaters like Serious and his 70% lg don't count.

Even in ql, Rapha's rockets didn't stand out particularly. And anyway most of the times someone look dominant with a weapon, it's just that he has full map control and can impose his presence. That's why Rapha is so aggressive and bullyish most of the times.

Take the infamous elder match against evil, for example. Evil literally only hung on for half an hour by spamming pixel railgun flicks. At the end of the match, he had something like 1000 damage more than Rapha with the railgun alone. Didn't matter how many armours rapha racked up, one flick from the other side of the map and his stack was gone.

In qc the situation is even worse. That retarded weapon does 90 damage. You can nullify something like 20 red armours in the time it takes one red armour to spawn.

With modern setups (and aim assists) the railgun is simply broken. It should deal 60 damage or something like that.

They don't. As of right now, the best rockets belong probably to Vengeur.

i like vengeurr but meh at sayin he got the best rox, you put that statement out of your arse/personal preference when it comes to pros :D

All the pros hit incredibly hard in QC, maybe only toxic and vengeur stand out a little, but not by much.

eh? like all the pros hit incredibly hard rox ? :>

you also seem to overrate toxjq tbh

Cheaters like Serious and his 70% lg don't count.

explain then that best placement serious ever got at QC was top8 ?

Even in ql, Rapha's rockets didn't stand out particularly.

huhu?! just as his brain/gamesense didn't stand out ? lmao x)

That's why Rapha is so aggressive and bullyish most of the times.

agressive and bullying ? are you talking about av3k ?

rapha was never ever particularly agressive or bullying, he's more of a tactician with 5 steps ahead way of thinking, and cooller's level of timings

Take the infamous elder match against evil, for example.

ye and that was just 1 match out of 126172723753578 matchs played by all the pros quake players at ql's peak in 2010

if 1 map stands out to be rail heavy, once in a grand final against a very specific matchup (in this case rapha vs evil), then ql is hitscans heavy ? nice logic x)

In qc the situation is even worse. That retarded weapon does 90 damage.

i do agree on this tho, rail in qc should be 80dmgs, but the max stack you can get and the diff hitboxes make it different to QL, so not sure actually

With modern setups (and aim assists) the railgun is simply broken. It should deal 60 damage or something like that.

seems like QW is the game you want :>

>explain then that best placement serious ever got at QC was top8 ?

Because he's a retard like you :>

HAHA

first of all jiren is much better than hit

secondly you're just a no name "want to look cool" boxer, and boxing has became a flawed combat-sport mainly because you end up hugging your opponent 80% of the time, explains why mma and muay thai/modern kick boxing are interesting people more than boxing nowadays

thirdly the "HAHA" makes me have doubt you're really a martial artist, because what you did there is 2v1 with easy bullying, nice mentality/sportmanship

That does not qualify as bullying in any way lmao.

I've actually been bullied, my comment is nothing.

Technically you're also a "no name" pot kettle black.

Boxing isn't a flawed sport, it's of a much higher skill and calibur than MMA by still quite some margine, a boxer could transition to MMA and become decent in a relatively short amount of time, the same can't be said vice-versa.

Boxing isn't martial arts and it's just banter if you think that comment is bullying then either a) You've never actually been bullied or b) You have insanely thin skin.

Boxing isn't a flawed sport, it's of a much higher skill and calibur than MMA by still quite some margine, a boxer could transition to MMA and become decent in a relatively short amount of time, the same can't be said vice-versa.

1st boxing and mma are both as hard to be a champion, i'm not saying boxing doesn't requieres skill, actually it does requiere it by extremely large amount, i just saying that it's like instagib 1v1 with no items, what i mean by that is that through time, most extremely talented boxers learned to play differently than when it was casius clay era, hence why so much close distance ending up in hugging, where you just can't do anything but being separated by the admin, while in muay thai, such moves would end up with knee kicks and elbows

2nd, wtf dude, conor vs floyd, are you even aware it happend ?

You haven't been paying much attention to the majority of heavyweight boxing fights then, most are a pure on slugfest even at the very top.

Conor did phenomonal just to hang with Floyd even if Floyd was past his prime and came back just for that match. But let's be real, he was playing with Connor the entire time and Connor gassed out really really early on, we all knew who'd be the decisive winner, still hats off to Floyd.

If I'm wrong about a fighter transitioning from MMA to boxing and dominating then so be it, I've yet to see it happen and quite likely will never see it happen.

the same way a top boxer wouldn't translate well to mma

Well Tyson Fury is going to make his transition over to MMA after his boxing contract is up and I'm highly confident that he'll transition seemlessly.

It won't take him as long getting ready as it would for an mma fight to box.

It has nothing to do with "skill level." Boxers can transfer to MMA more readily because they can use all their fighting skills in MMA, where as MMA fighers will be handicapped going into boxing. Gifted fighters will always do well in MMA because it's an open canvas, where boxing is very specialized in comparison.

Almost any top fighter in any combat sport will have the ability to do well in MMA because there are no style restrictions -- that's the point of it.

Also the majority of heavyweight bouts are just proper slugfests unless it's a fight with Klit.

wow you seem really good at arguing, gratz my fellow braindead "Registered: 7 Feb 2012"

"Registered: 30 May 2006"

STFU, noob.

yes master

wish i was there when it was XSR :(

2001 should've been a sick year for XSR :D

Afair back then it was 100% Quake, 0% politics / BS - as it should be.

It should deal 60 damage or something like that.

And it got buffed in Eggbots :F
Are rail whores even human?

I think Rapha and Cooller have the best rocket aim and rocket dodging out there. Cooller played Q3, Rapha afaik didn't. Cooller only came to Q3 AFTER it was already too late and the game had turned instant-hit weapon dominant.

Anyway, both have very good instant-hit aim too, so there's no conflict. If they lacked that, they surely would neither win in QC or late Q3.

Rapha did play q3, when it came back briefly after the death of quake 4 and before ql. Around 2008, i think. There's even some matches of him in quake 4, but he was super green at the time.

At the beginning of his super long career, Coller was still playing in the non-aimwhore version of q3. I remember he had matches in DM6, of all maps, and against Toxic, of all players, where he intentionally avoided the railgun altogether or shot 3-4 rails in the entire 15 minutes game, and still won. It was awesome. Today it wouldn't be possible.

I remember he had matches in DM6, of all maps, and against Toxic, of all players, where he intentionally avoided the railgun altogether or shot 3-4 rails in the entire 15 minutes game, and still won. It was awesome. Today it wouldn't be possible.

meh, rewatch all the demos then, even at that time he used railgun, just never abused it as much as czm or tox, but he had to use railgun still, because playing especially rather early q3 without 100dmg rail is literally impossible especially if out of control

and seems like you want a game without railgun or what ?
the beauty of vq3/cq3/ql is the balance of both the weapons, the maps and the movements, only thing lacking is tiered armors

meh

i like weed but seems like what it does to your brain doesn't work at all ;D

Weed is crap, I regret ever having smoked it.

Why do you say that?

It smells like poop.

haha

The things I've read and from my own experience if used just when you feel you need it for relief is not harmful at all. Lots of studies indicate that it's a healing plant and can be used for many different aliments in the body.

I wish it was legalized in the U.K. because somedays meditation and deep breathing doesn't cut it to unwind after a long hard day and I don't like using alcohol for that because it's terrible for your body and mind.

Yeah, I think I'm leaning to the LEGALIZE side although I'm not a fan of DUDE WEED retards.
But there's no chance of state killing all the A<3k overlords :^)

Yeah I'd only want to use it recreationally and very sparingly because to me it's like alcohol, something to partake in once in a blue moon though it's a lot better for you than alcohol

Well. It can't kill you. Alcohol can and will.. just depends on the (cumulative) dose.

I agree about using for "shutting down" after a straining day. It IS a psychoactive substance though, and as such I'd recommend it only for those with a stable, settled personality. If a (mentally) young person uses it inappropriately / too often, it might take them a while to get "un-fucked" ;)
I personally know someone who developed schizophrenia because of it and had to undergo serious treatment to get better.

Maybe I'd look into CBD if it should just be for relaxation.

Yeah there was some study that said that the only way you could overdose on cannabis is if you smoked 628kg in 15 minutes.

=D Safe to assume that it will never happen.

I've heard cannabis oil is very good for anxiety and aches and pains stuff like that, never tried it though but makes sense as cannabis is one of if not the most powerful anti-oxidants in the world.

Yep, there is a lethal dose, but one you can never realistically reach.

As for CBD, I've seen mixed reviews. Some say it's great for relaxation and anti-inflammation, some say it does nothing. I've personally never tried it, but since it's legal I definitely will at some point.

I had two friends, one of which I knew most of my life, who killed themselves in highschool not even a year after smoking weed. Of course it wasn’t weed that caused them to make such a rash decision, but it certainly was of no help either.

There is no outlet with mind altering substance. You must change your mind and you must mother your own inner child if your parents suck.

I'm really sorry to hear that but I'm not convinced that them smoking weed caused or even contributed to them unfortunately taking their own lives, I might be wrong but if you were going to play that card you could then attribute that to literally anything.

Again though I'm sorry for your loss

[+] for the last sentence. There is no escape, other than working on your problems and trying to find solutions for them. Most of the time you will be alone in that quest.

As for the first part of your statement, weed could definitely have been a contributing factor. As with a lot of drugs, it tends to amplify the state of mind you're in. If you are in a bad frame of mind and are mistakingly looking at the drug as a solution, you might get the opposite effect.
That's from personal experience too. I first started smoking weed after I lost my first gf, because I believed it would make me feel better. BAD mistake.

Agreed :)

So maybe your game is UT then? Not Quake?

The railgun discussion is really interesting. I always thought it could do 70 dmg. Off the spawn you have 100+25 decaying, imagine you take a rail 10 seconds after spawning, with 70 you would have 40 and would be able to make a save rocket jump. With 80 if you do that you kill yourself.

I remember playing with raisy in CA a lot and his good behavior (silent and hiding - would get him kicked by ragers tho) and railgun striked me. We were often the last alive to battle our rails together. Killsen also always had wtf rails in CA, an overwhelming amount of his CA gamestyle would rely on rail shots. I also remember making linkin rage because I would play with his patience (yes it was kinda cunty I recon but it was a good strat to score, and it builds you fortitude).

As for QC I don't know, havn't touched it in like 1 year. I read it does 90 now in QC? At least the zoom dmg buff was yet another skill to master.

They went so much back and forth with QC that I don't think they had a plan at start. They saw overwatch and the clones and saw the market size. They thought they should copy it, just like the good old days of Unreal 1/UT -> Q3?

Rail should not do less damage, it should have slower reload.

You should still be rewarded for hitting nice shots, it's just when people suddenly deal 270 damage in just a few seconds that some of the tactical elements of the game are diminished.

q3 has not been exhausted, thats like saying chess has been exhausted and now we have to repackage its rules into a clusterfuck of retardation so subhumans can buy the new assorted iteration.

Is that why it's so slow? It's turn-based?

at least not all of the pieces can jump and air-control like knight