so dbt is dead, 2bd

GD
- Yo'd better made parody on CS and Dota!

Like Battlerite?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Diabotical/comments/...oing_well/

If only James took me up on my offer to build out a full-on marketing campaign and get some traffic from FB ads to grow awareness of the game.

If only...

If only any afps game would do such thing...

It's true, the devs and creators just assume they've got a fanbase for this type of shit.

They have it, 2-3k fans vs double-digit millions of cod/bf/csgo/ow/apex players

and cod/bf/ow/apex got huge massive marketing...

and cod game for basically same game every year

It's not marketing problem only.
Qc peak has been 17k players during shitesda e3 show 2 years ago and after 2-3 weeks playerbase returned to usual 2-3k.
People dont like afps arena in general and the big success was in 1996-early 2000 when the only rival was hl1 dm or cs beta, the decline started as soon as medal of honor/sof2/rtcw/et/cod1 appeared on the market

I imagine in 2017 with 17k players the game was beyond uplayable even compared to 2020?

Your mouse would not turn, hitreg would not work, jerking mouse randomly would give 100% lg and made clawz world champion

yep, it's absurd how people technically shitty games prove that players don't like the concept

Did you play pubg when it came out? Complete garbage, yet it had a peak of 3 millions players playing at the same time. i bet 90% of players quit the game because of the gameplay, not the bugs.

That meas that the PUBG was very compelling and became the social game, not that it wasn't affected by bugs and poor performance. I know I would have played it more if it had less of those issues!

marketing wouldnt have changed anything about spheres shooting each other in a child game on a soundtrack from portal ... I am real glad this abomination of arena fps didnt win the afps wars ...
hope this kind of shit artstyle stays in variety streamer games and mobile games

Thinking afps would be alive if it looked [INACERTAINWAY].
Thinking eggbots would be out this decade if they went for triple A visuals.

half life 2 quality from 2004 would be good enough 17 years later ...
and some consistent map design ...

I spend on average between 50/100k pm on FB advertising alone for some of my clients who have products like tarrot card reading, health supplements and all kinds of spiritual and weird things.

Trust me, a proper marketing campaign would blow the genre up, except they're too fucking dumb to realise it.

Do you have any experience with "clickbait" book titles?

Yeah, I've done some clickbait shit in the past. People don't take to it nowadays cause of sites like Buzzfeed.

I think that this trailer from Strafe game and other similar indies did better than dbt or QC, at least they showed it at IGN

https://youtu.be/ef_41JpwqdE

I think Reflex was great, but also failed mostly because of lack of marketing

Even now doing some stuff around Doom and come back of "real king of fps" and paying streamers would do much better...

Honestly, we just need someone to take RtCW and Enemy Territory and bring that back.

IMHO one of the greatest Team based objective shooter. Kinda where OW took inspiration from, then we also got Dirty Bomb which was great when it first came out and then they killed it with all of the stupid shit added to it.

Dirty Bomb was pretty good, also missing some marketing.
Sadly splash damage do not have rights to create ET, they do not own it.

I heard that MachineGames (new Wolf) wanted to create multiplayer or even some Quake game.

https://wccftech.com/wolfenstein-developers-w...territory/

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/65913/machineg...index.html

https://twitter.com/machinegames/status/746363189768650752


I think that new afps should be something objective based like ET or TF2 with also Duel game mode.

this is also interesting https://openfortress.fun/

Strafe is/was ok

but Prodeus, DUSK and Ion Fury = Quad Win ^_^

Have your tried the Duskworld - DUSK multiplayer?

not yet

WRATH is also cool
very QuakeY <3

some delay with their updates bc corona

i dont think anyone uses facebook anymore..

probably just some soccer moms in their mid-late 40's looking at that tarot add intrigued af

I mean, maybe you shouldn't comment on a topic you have zero clues about?

only old people are on fb
the young generation dont fuck with fb like dat

instagram, snap, tiktok is where the youth is at

thats why tarot is booming because its all karens on fb

You're not wrong about the demographics but you don't seem to understand how ad targeting works and ad platforms out there which hit all those platforms as well, especially with the new changes to Whatsapp coming soon, Facebook is still the number one in terms of putting together demographics and psychographic. They might not be on Facebook, however, they've signed up in the passed and their info will be farmed to shit.

wagwan with whatsapp soon :-?

So their whole privacy thing is going out of the window.

They'll be able to read all of your data to a degree.

How active you are in groups, status, how much time you spend, location etc.

They'll have your encrypted chats saved on their servers and IF they want, they can decrypt it.

Rumour has it they're gonna be turning Whatsapp into some sort of e-commerce platform where you can also buy shit through the app etc.

it is funny that people are switching from WhatsUp to Telegram because Facebook is so evil lol xD

I dunno so much about internet marketing ... it maybe works sometimes if you get to see a product you already want ... but checking out a new thing is something that rarely happens, I am not sure I ever checked out a game from internet marketing ... and indie titles without big names behind them have it harder, maybe you are more likely to click on something if u see the blizzard logo, but if u see xyz u dont even care ... people are really oversaturated with games, hard to get noticed

I consider most of the ads spam by now and created the ability to just ignore them altogether, I literally blur them out into my peripheral vision.

Once in a while something will capture my attention and I might click on it but it happens so rarely.

I'm sure (subconsciously) advertising works but I feel the oversaturation creates the opposite effect.

I quite recently read some comments related to this on slashdot (https://slashdot.org/story/21/01/04/0234234/w...ppened-why), and as I can recall it's basically only good for big brands to remind people they still exist so they buy them at some point ... a lot of the buzz is generated by the ad industry feeding to itself so they can make a profit ...

Na, see massive industries pointed out like Uber drive app installs mainly. They don't really need a reason to connect with their audience cause of how they grew and the service they provide.

People think of marketing as just one massive wheel that churns out money, when in actual fact most people waste money without knowing the basics of human nature.

The majority of folk don't understand the hardwired basic biological needs that need to be satisfied (Especially in modern society)

1. Survival, enjoyment of life, or life extension.
2. Enjoyment of food and beverages.
3. Freedom from fear, pain or danger.
4. Sexual companionship.
5. Comfortable living conditions.
6. To be superior, winning or keeping up with the Joneses.
7. Care and protection of loved ones.
8. Social approval.

Now if you can craft an advertising campaign that hits a few of those points and to be honest it's not hard to do you'll be on to a winner (to a degree)

A prime example of this is the sex workers on Twitter who use OnlyFans as their platform to promote their content.

If you had any form of an audience you can craft messages that can hit certain key factors and shit will blow up.

I mean I can dissect this type of thing all day. My work as a copywriter is to essentially create a unique mechanism around whatever it is my client/s want to sell and research the type of a person it'll appear to. Craft a test message, find a media buyer who deals with where those customers hang out and just test.

This could 100% be applied to AFPS as a genre as it's niche.

Most game studios coast off the popularity of the previous franchise which is lazy IMHO, however, it's worked for decades. Look at World of Warcraft as an example.

AFPS can't just rely on their cult following of players.

imo the products you mention sell themselves, which is not the case with DB

ok den

The game is total shit, q4 community knew it all along, nobody plays diabotical, its dead game.

The only q4 community that is still going is the Vodka, jobless bumholes (which include yourself). But still, keep that dream alive twat features, because you are a nothing and will always smell like shit.

Gobshite

2GD comments on the new games
https://www.reddit.com/r/Diabotical/comments/...new_games/

also interesting:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Diabotical/comments/...ective_of/

For fucking real?!?

It's true then that in the gaming world the more incompetent you are, the more chances you're given.

Thats not specific to gaming

iam so glad, i didnt spend ANY money on diashitical.

all those hyped up QL only fanboys throwing money at it and now you have it: it's completely dead after such a short time. GG

2GD will never see any money from me.

A lot of people backed Diabotical because they were promising something OTHER than QL for a long time. Check out this video from 2014: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUcs_Cj-hIg

2GD used to have ideas and dreams and yet we still ended up with QL plus dodge. So maybe the QL fanboys are to blame after all...

Eggs as innovative idea

nice so we'll have 300% increase in wwwanyboy threads

SELL SELL SELL!

good move, after QC defeating in AFPS battle now its time to bury APEX/PUBG/Valorant/rust. My only concern there might be better models than floating spheres (p.s. Floating cubes also bad idea)

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/7374...height=676

I feel slightly cheated, because I invested some money into the future of Diabotical. So now when it seems it will have no future as continuously promised before, yeah.
I know what Im not investnng another dollar in, a new 2GD game...

I payed for a eearly kickstarter and...

Since the game went free to play on the Epic Games Store instead of the initial planned purchase price of $15, we will be sending every backer who did not request a refund, a $15 in-game Standard Pack which contains both items and enough coins to gain access to the Battlepass. Those of you who have pledged for tiers which had an additional copy of Diabotical included, will be receiving two packs for a total worth of $30.

ekhem... so... "awesome"

U should have listened to Gabe.

As he said nobody should work with 2gd.

as far as i remember he told smthng like "james is an assellent game developer"

shoulda known better, this guy just used you to fund his game engine and now is saying fuck u to u all. guys dont change from being an ass to being a benevolent angel

i have to wonder where the ego comes from. it's not like this game has over 10 million concurrent players and made over 2 billion in revenue like warzone. the whole "abusive relationship" routine only works when you're a big and successful company with a product that people are addicted to. not when you're small and irrelevant and every venture you've attempted has failed.

the idea that they can pump out a title by 2022 with this dogshit engine and it's horrendous render just making every asset look like nintendo gamecube graphics. not that they ever invested in good artists to begin with, but cmon how are they so delusional? it's not 2009 anymore where it's the aftermath of the great recession, and the developers think "the only games people will play are cs 1.6, cs:s, tf2, and the yearly call of duty anyway so might as well not put in the effort and pump out a dead on arrival title that lasts 4 weeks". there's actual money to be made in this industry, and none of it will be in the hands of this dev team if they keep making games that look far worse than overwatch, and especially when they refuse to commit to crossplay and aim assist for gamepad.

thought i'd try to write something productive for once. a lot of times on ESR, i've written comments mostly to laugh at people playing X or Y some other thing. the reality is i've realized this isn't productive. I won't touch either with a dead stick. I think there's a lot to say about people not being negative however. I suggest everyone try to mellow out and follow a classic rule:

if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all.

i'm really into movement and games that focus on movement. I can say a lot about my thoughts and i don't want to spoil people's enjoyment of games. some of you take games way too seriously.

just have fun and try to be silent if you are a critic. just play what you enjoy. i realize it's harmless to not say anything critical and saying something emotionally critical that isn't cultivated can actually hurt a community of people who are already depressed. but yeah. i'm not playing X or Y and won't speak to why but i just want to say be positive.

Can we just agree that the genre is dead now? I think there are still some questions about "marketing," remakes, and the genre being "too difficult" but maybe there are just more interesting games out there? Or at least games that better fit the needs of the player.

I think between Reflex and Diabotical, we saw two decent efforts by indie developers, who ultimately halted development because neither game could capture the general gaming community's attention. I can't see why any large developer would take the risk -- Yes, maybe a Quake 1 remake could be financially successful but what makes anyone think that would revive the online competitive scene? I haven't played either one of the new DOOM games but it appears they are both are well received commercially and critically, but the online components never had more than a handful of players.

Somebody needs to put us into the fridge and wake up on Quake 1 remake or Quake 5

Amen! + Hell it's about time ~_~

`-´ = Q4 Folks
'_' = Q3 QL Community

there is wrath of ruin for q1 remake, I think they want to create MP as well, maybe they can create something, but I wouldnt get my hopes up for this game though

honestly I knew the genre is dead when I saw how Epic fared with UT4 development

at that point I kind of hoped new UT could still repeat the success of UT2K4, it had a lot of casual modes
and was perfectly suited for players who just want to hop on public servers and have fun, but they knew what's up and made fortnite instead, cant really blame them for that move, everyone wants to be a millionaire

then I had a glimmer of hope QC could at least repeat the numbers that Quake Live had in first two years, to no avail

then I hoped DBT could keep the activity just as QC had when it was released, but then again, QC is and is going to be more popular game than DBT, even now


oh well.

Reflex only died because of the devs adamantly refusing to allow the most popular VQ3 physics into their game until it was already dead. Unlike Diabotical, it had an excellent engine somehow, and many here were willing to play it, just NOT as a standalone CPM game.

And diabetical would have a decent population still if 2BD didn't go FULL retard during the pandemic

Reflex in terms of engine was indeed excellent. Sad story.
Do you know anything about current status? Abandoned by devs and that it is? They could try to sell it, make it open or whatever.

Abandoned (mostly... The game still has a workshop on Steam though). The main dev, shooter, left the official Discord. The other two part-time devs left years ago.

There is some community modding going on. There's still a few people dueling and playing race. VQ3ish physics became possible with custom rulesets.

Please stop joking. You think outside of the small Quake community people care about CPM vs VQ3? It's just another delusional fairytale VQ3 players have been telling themselves for decades.

You are joking if you think a full CPM game would ever not be dead on release.

CPM is simply way too difficult for newbies and too annoying and disliked even by most of the veteran afps community.

And this is not debatable.

I agree. But...
Recently I installed Reflex Arena again and played a little bit vs bots... and man it feels so smooth compared to DBT or QC.

It's sad that it is not f2p open sourced or whatever.

diabotical is smooth af, QC isn't smooth at all imo

I agree, but cpma/reflex feels even more smooth

I don't really why people say that CPM is somehow a lot harder than VQ3, I had no trouble adapting to it, and I was by no means a good player. The movement makes for a faster pace which changes the dynamics slightly. The community did seem to have it's fair share of internet-raised kidults though, many good people also.

CPM being difficult does not all of a sudden make VQ3 attractive. We've seen with QC and DBT that having VQ3 physics still leads to dead communities. The issues are far bigger than simply which convoluted movement system you're including, mainly that people just don't find the genre appealing, engaging, or interesting.

The only thing that I really like about QC is having kinda all-in-one movement. vQ3, air control and slide.

But there is also so many annoying things...

QC's concept is great. I also think the gfx/presentation are very nice, too. Some of the maps, champs, and weapons on high-quality settings look very nice, imo. Weapons have that meaty feel to them that Diabotical doesn't have.

But QC's execution fell short in a few ways, especially at launch. I think the game has improved since launch, but still misses some key features (spec in-game, server browser, etc.). Round-based duel was a nice idea to make it more newb-friendly, but it should have also launched with a classic time-limit duel mode. When CTF was introduced, it was absolutely bonkers that the maps were all asymmetrical. Hindsight is 20/20.

I will say that the QPL was a great way forward. Having regular cups, and well produced streams is very good to keeping the community active and engaged. I think since there are very few new players attempting to participate, the one thing they should focus on now is new maps and new champs. If they can put in a couple of new champs, it'll keep the QPL from getting stale since there are no new players.

Yeah, I think skins are also great, much more to do with them compared to CSGO etc. Can be bigger etc.

Execution matters. In beta / CBT the game was in total trash state.
Also not having Time Limit Duel at launch was just wtf. Also not having a decent PC in that time and actually busy with other stuff.

I saw couple months ago that it is finally back and tried to play again. It is much better, but it can be just too late. Many bad decisions. But with Quake Live, in the beginning... the subscription model? damn, that was awful too.

2BD didn't go FULL retard during the pandemic

The Ultimate Cope

Cope for what? I don't care for diabetical as should be clear from my posts.

But it's just factual that 2RTRD did literally anything he could to make sure to completely kill the playerbase and the hype ASAP when any other game was making bank.

It literally doesn't matter.
Drop 10k fresh people into Eggbots and they will melt because it's Quake.
Doesn't matter if it had AAA graphics and sound it would only slow the melt.
MAYBE if playermodels had HUGE TITS with ragdoll and you would shoot cum at them...
Maybe then.

*Great Gatsby Toasts*

[img1]

2 more from the vault for ya:

Diabotical Ranked Leaderboards from today
https://imgur.com/a/FbwmRMy
Screenshots from last pages...

Duel: 218 players
TDM: 35 players
Aim Arena: 135 players
Aim Arena: 421 players

where are the wipeout and macguffin ranked?
Ach I see that wipeout season coming next month https://www.reddit.com/r/Diabotical/comments/...ext_month/ ... but why?

also https://quakelife.ru/diabotical/leaderboards/ not sure if updated

220 players in duel ladder, almost like q4, except q4 had no money, no funding, no streamers, and no tournaments, and was released in 2005 LoL.

Friendly reminder :P

"James is an ass, and we won't be working with him again." - Gaben https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/47sc4...hai_major/

220 players in duel ladder, almost like q4, except q4 had no money, no funding, no streamers, and no tournaments, and was released in 2005 LoL.

2GD had it planned all along :D
https://www.reddit.com/r/Diabotical/comments/...all_along/

If the genre is dead, then it is up to indie devs to carry the mantle. No triple A studio can afford to dump large resources into an AFPS that will garner a small player base. If you love the AFPS genre, consider supporting indie devs who pursue games in the genre, even if their game is not perfect.

It is running in circles. Indie studio can only create Quake clone. Only Big studio could do some new big game with interesting lore and new mechanics, but for what? for 1000 players?

Better to create another CoD game for consoles and earn gazillions of moneys, right?

You can't have "new mechanics" without unquaking the game.
Projectiles, hitscans, yada yada, movement.
Anything else will be a shitty gimmick.
If the gimmick will be small part of the game it's still too quaky, no one will touch it.
If it's bigger than it is breaking the game.

Its like the guy that cant accept her love abandoned them.

AFPS has no future as big mainstream game, thats the cold truth.

"To understand, is to transform what it" J. Krishnamurti

I actually mean unquaking the game, with new game and adding new movement.

I haven't played much UT but probably movement there is easier to understand.

Obviously changing only movement slightly would have no effect.
VQ3, cpm, Unreal - there's no difference.
It would need to be simple and (probably) therefore shallow.
Maybe add guns to Rocket League.
The change would be huge and at the end Quake element would be void.

I don't know how it should looks like but imo the main game mode should be focused on team modes - like tf2 and duel as more elitiest

The worst part about teamgames is that you play with other people! ;)
Rocket League is a great game but it's unplayable with randoms...
What a save!
What a save!
What a save!

True, I have played couple of games like ranked but at some point, without premade team it was just super bad experience

To all the the kickstarter suckers: I hope you feel proud for giving the seed capital to 2GD, so he can make his little portfolio game and sell his company for a couple of millions :)

I wouldnt make fun of you if 2GD wasnt always the most obviously narcissistic bullshit artist

Not really sure if it's fair to call someone making an AFPS game narcissistic. Masochist, sure, but narcissistic?

I have no problem with that. I would give 20 euros again to the next guy trying to make a new afps.

Maybe even 40 if they would remake qw.

good guy greg

If nobody wiling to pay then we cannot count on afps revival anytime ;)

Bought dbt and reflex ;)

Mad - checked
Retarded - checked

Was this a condition of the Epic deal?

Make the money, steal Quake to Epic

2GD killed his own game by 1. The stupid beta weekends when the whole world was in some kind of lockdown, should have let the people play, 2. He couldn't accept that the player base preferred wipeout instead of macguffin and 3. Fucking UT weapons

and 10 queues

3. UT weapons have two fire modes. Diashitical weapons have one. they are just a weak copy of warsow weapons.

the game is just so weak. no new maps for objective based gamemodes.
no ctf.

ctf should have been there from the start. this stupid james ruined the game by pushing useless gamemodes with no content.

glad i didnt spend money on that.

rofl, thought this must be a joke but it seems real. Funniest shit I've read in a very long time.

James has always been "an ass" (according to Gabe Newell), the only reason he has a job in this industry is because of his family relations.

Do you really know he's an ass? We've only seen one-side to him, his on screen personality, he could be entirely different elsewhere, like 2 sides to coin.

what are these relations you talk about

Soros, Biden and Reptilians

His parents are very wealthy. But I don't know what connections they have (if any).

The genre is dead. Unfortunately. No game dev can revive it.

People were probably thinking the same thing about wolfenstein, doom series some time ago

imo the execution of any afps game was super bad, young players do not even know that afps genre exists

anyway, yes, in result it is pretty dead.

What do you play then?

doom and wolfenstein are singleplayer games with a story. any lolcat could play it.

meanwhile on aFPS those lolcat newbies get raped badly and leave the game forever within day 1.
the thing is, all those wimps cant handle such games.
they need stupid games like fallguys which they can stream or watch (while donating to stupid streamers).

gaming has become such a meme. horrible.

we would just need qc in a diabotical style engine ... similar to valorant, but still of course gothic look etc.,
but not a complete copy paste like q4 was to q3 ...
still improving a bit on the qc formula, that together with stable engine and an improved TDM mode, that would be enough ...
qc put off people with bad engine + high hardware requirements + desolate state in beta ... didnt even have instagib, no ctf maps, etc. ...
of course will not be cod warzone or fortnite ... but it can be a solid 10/20 k player base game ... even fucking tf2 is having 80k players right now ...

I guess Q3, Q4, QL, QC, DBT, Reflex - all games probably was quite bad on the release...

QC now maybe is not in that bad shape but... in 2017? I had a bad PC but still I didn't bother to upgrade because... Rounds Duel? wtf? And whole state of the game? Few pros also moved out because the game was unplayable or 0 money or whatever. QC had the 17k players peak of players and managed to keep... 3%?

We didn't have any afps game release for years that was properly executed. And of course there was 0 marketing. Most of young players do not even know that such genre exist. It is worth explaining by using marketing properly.

Diabotical had potential imo but again many bad decisions.

Still with properly created game you can have like 10k playersbase probably, which is enough but still small in numbers = less money. So again not so many reasons to create something like this.

I think Battle royale started as a mod to some popular games and popularity was slowly growing, then PUBG happened and it was booming.

nice trolling :)

Yeah, but still nobody was thinking that Wolfenstein or Doom - Boomer Shooter can be successful. And Doom 2016 or Wolf: New Order first of all - good games without major flaws on release

Also not sure if any Quake was released with good execution or there were some problems at the beginning or weird decisions.

The thing with the new DOOM games is that they do a really good job of making you feel like you're really skilled and keeps the gameplay intense and exciting. These things just don't translate to multiplayer.

In Doom 2016/Eternal, you're always on the verge of dying, almost running out of ammo, and still manage to take down a room of demons. The awesome music kicks in just at the right moment. When you shoot an enemy, they react as if they've just got their shit fucked up (they stagger, fall down, or explode into gibs). You're glory killing all the baddies and immediately back to full-health and ammo. Enemies are just aggressive enough to keep you moving, but not too aggressive to kill you instantly. When you're on the verge of dying, the game finds ways to assist you (more health, ammo, slow mo, enemies less aggressive, etc.). All these little tricks are seamlessly done in the background to make the illusion work, to make you feel like a demon slayer even when you're not.

In an AFPS game, it's made very apparent you're shit. There ain't no illusions (besides wonky netcode) that will fix the fact you're shit. QC tried to introduce some mechanics that mask how shit you are. Round-based duels and different champs mask true skill disparities between players. But then it takes away some of the thrill of AFPSs which is being the superior player.

id bethesda could have given doom a proper multiplayer based on quake gameplay and it would have been a hit I think with the single player giving exposure to the multiplayer, but instead they decided to give the future of afps to fucking tim, a low cost game dev studio, and the retarded love child of a spineless creature from the bottom of the sewers and a lost and found bin that is syncerror.

it would have been a hit I think

This is the core difference between views on this topic.

Consider what makes BR popular: You have loot (which triggers that gambling part of people's brains, aka "surprise mechanics"), it is chaotic enough that you can get lucky, get a couple of kills, and survive till the end and potentially even win (very lucky, but possible), and the gameplay is easy to learn. If you've played any popular single-player FPS (CoD, BF, etc.), you have a good idea of how to move, jump, shoot, etc., in almost every BR game.

Now consider what makes AFPS fun in your mind. I'm gonna guess that the most enjoyable moments you had in an AFPS were after many hours of playing. For a new player, they jump in and get crushed as players move around them at 1000ups. The formula is not immediately gratifying. It takes time, and it requires persistence. Why persist when there are 100 other games that are free, where you can immediately have fun?

There are tons of high-quality, free-to-play video games out there that any AFPS competes against. Quake's heyday was precisely when Quake was at the absolute bleeding-edge of video game tech (particularly Q3). This is not a coincidence. It has not really had a selling point to mainstream audiences since then.

Well when I say a hit I mean 5k to 10k daily peak concurrent players absolute max, which is more than the shit tier mp modes they shipped with nudooms.

I think the reason why being bleeding edge has been successful for quake is that it gave quake exposure, personally the only reason I gave apfs a try was because I wanted to see what kind of bleeding edge graphics could UT3, I remember expecting to play it for like a week and go back to my usual games. I never looked back after I realized how deep afps duel is compared to other games and I then moved onto quake after looking into afps games and seeing some q4 finals.

Player retention would prolly be bad if all that is available is duel, dm, tdm, ctf, ect. Ideally youd want a game mode that is fun by itself to casuals, but not that interesting to duel try hards or ca tards in order to have that mode serve as a semi containment zone for new players. Ut3 had a game mode wiith giant maps and vehicules, the issue is that I think it wasnt that interesting to casual players either when compared to what other games had to offer.. Plus ut3 was one of the worst apfs release out there but I dont think that its what killed it. I think a really well crafted single player game could serve as a 20 hours buffer zone for the players to get used to some of the mechanics the mp would require of them in order to even half play the game. Real issue is that it doesnt make much financial sense to craft such a game when risk is to compromise the singleplayer experience to possibly get 10k players playing the mp. A f2p with an actual game mode aimed at the casuals like ut3 had but better, would be good but again it doesnt make financial sense when you could simply focus on making a crossplay pc/console shooter and focus all your efforts on making on the one and only casual mode. But I do think a 5k-10k concurrent player afps is still possible, but id bethesda microsoft is not going to do it because they could make something with a much better risk/reward ratio with the human ressources required to do this right.

Now that I really thought about this, if you excuse me I'll go back to suicide watch with the 16 other players who want to kill themselves when they look at what fps games are popular today.

Well not like that they can't. But that was not 100% effort, decision wise, that was maybe 50% effort, with a lot of cold feet before initial (beta) release, then a sudden 180 when the hard work decision wise was starting.

your average Quake fanboy is also not helping.

joyless boomer, that would rather complain all day instead of playing the game they like or.. *shudders* trying new things.

new things

Will the zoomers kick you from the shitcord server if you don't spew shit like this?

I'm not one for being high and mighty on behalf of the old fucks, but surely you should know better than beeing peer pressured by a bunch of 14 year olds.

why did you even reply with this weak bullshit?

it's obvious the discourse around new AFPS games is overly negative and toxic from people who either don't know what they want and sperg aimlessly into the ether or want the same thing from already existing games.

if the community is this off-putting and anti-fun, the genre might as well be dead.

Of course it's negative, everything is a clone to trojan horse lootboxes or whatever. There are no new shooters, you should know that because you're not 14 and you've been around for the originals.

very cool rambling.

Clearly better than playing "new" games, for both of us.

The only way to reignite Quake and arena fps is for id Software and Microsoft to push it with a new Quake game. Quake 4 was shit. It is what killed quake. Tacked on MP on a 60FPS engine. The SP was okay, but not ground breaking, and held back by the Doom 3 engine.

They need to bring it back with a reboot of Quake 1 or 2. And solid MP from the get go, with fun modern modes such as last man standing, clan arena alongside a balanced and fun 1v1.

or team mode like QuakeWorld style TDM

DM2 fullstart for everybody!

as a quake player I really enjoyed not playing their shitty quake clone,
cant wait to not play their slightly less shitty tf2 clone

battleroyal genre is the next big thing in multiplayer games. AFPS in current representation is too repetative both for players and stream viewers. Every BR game is your own story, the genre generates unique game situations with great variety and experience for any skill level players.

On the other side AFPS has almost 0 variety, same fights on ZTN at RedArmor again and again, 1000times and they all looks the same. Boring as FUCK to play, boring as fuck to watch. Thats why it doesn't matter how good quality wise an AFPS game would be - it just outdated as genre itself. U can add UT weapons, greatest ever maps, trashacan models instead spheres or any other BS content - it's just not working in 2021 :(

CSGO feels even more repetitive and boring - still much more players (1 mln peak)/viewers. In Quake it depends more on playstyle.

I understand that people like BR games, for me they are quite boring, and for me they are just different deathmatch or just last man standing. I do not feel any pressure there.

Also BR can be fun but totally do not see it as competitive games, it is fun casually and imo trying to make esport from it is a mistake. Also BR proplayers advicing others to become a streamer if you want money from it, because tournaments are full of RNG etc.

Also BR games are maybe good for interacting with streamer but watching esports tournament is super bad experience. But actually fps games are not super fun to watch, not like Dota2/LoL/SC2 - isometric games.

But I agree, BR are next new thing, afps is past. But imo it doesn't make sense to compare the genres.

once a game has a huge playerbase like CS and big tournaments it becomes a different thing regardless of repetition though as there's a narrative in the pro scene which spectators enjoy.

also there becomes a kind of e-social status with having a high rank like global/faceit10 which people enjoy trying to gain

it's a shame that afps is unpopular as (at least for me) it's the most raw aim-based genre

You should thank id software and their ass treatment of Quake after Q2 for that, the best thing that can happen to Quake is they put the brand up for sale, they have sucked all the potential and legacy out of it, another bullshit release will not make them any money at all.

Yeah, it is a shame to destroy such a franchise like Quake, the game that set standards in multiplayer fps world and still part of the engine is used in many fps games

One thing to add here.
Make a list of PC Multiplayer games from 2020 or announced recently... not much huh? Samme old shit: csgo, siege, some battle royales

What is new? CoD? Warzone? Valorant? any new rts or moba game?

Nothing really interesting recently

The throne is never empty. PC competitive games are too risky to invest. Financial incomes are unpredictable, thats why any indie AFPS will probably fail

when you think about all the popular games right now ...
they're all coming from mods ...
cs was a mod, even q3a didnt invent anything, neither tdm, ctf, duel or bots, or jumppads, I am not even sure why they created this game, because q1/q2 provided all that already via mods, and the mods did so much better with many options etc., it was absolutely redundant to create this game with that disabled movement and desastrous maps, it feels like WinXp vs Win2000 ... also cs:go, teamfortress, portal were mods ... dota and br all mods, I am not sure what corporations have invented, they only thing they can do is take something that worked in mods and put the AAA feel/quality on it in terms of art, but overall they still provide worse gameplay most of the time ... I am not sure if there is any popular game that still supports modding, so right now I am not sure if modding can still be so relevant since all the people from popular games are missing who would play a mod and make it big ...
I have a feeling there is some sort of crash happening now, because graphics cannot be considerably improved anymore and games are not really different or better from 5 years or even 10 years before

pubg and dayz was a mod too I think

also mobas

>> because graphics cannot be considerably improved anymore

what are you talking about? UE5 with Lumen and Nanite are revolutionary. same with raytracing, mesh shaders and AI driven techniques.
we're rapidly converging on photo-realism.

what you might try to say is that graphics technology alone will not carry your game because it gives diminishing returns.. but these days as a developer you have total creative freedom and pursue any artstyle you want.

Can I get a QRD on the Gd Studio? Is it literally just whiskey brain now or is James actually going to get off his ass and fix the shit with dbt. Asking for a friend.