This is not actual anymore

Nyx was my biggest issue. Ghost walk in a Quake game... fuck youuuuuuuuu. That character should not have been in the game at all.

At some point they tried doing something cool with Clutch and succeeded but had to dumb down the character for whatever reason. Movement was really nice.

Ranger is most fine.
Doom Slayer's double jump is nice. Active ability sucks.
Personally, I would merge these two into one.

Wish list
Make the game run on Linux. It's terrible

Give Clutch his movement back

Merge Eisen with Visor. Just give the wall hack to Eisen.

Remove Keel and merge him with Sorlag - use Sorlag's movement, give her acid spits as rockets replacement.

Remove Slash and give her movement to Galena.
Remove Nyx and give her wall jump to Athena.
Remove Scalebearer or merge him with the Death Knight.

Not sure about Anarki. Perhaps someone else could chime in with their ideas.

I haven't tried it myself, but apparently it runs all right on linux.

https://www.protondb.com/app/611500

EDIT: Okay, you might have meant you tried it, and it was "terrible". Maybe it takes some fiddling.

No, it runs like shit. I have a 3700x, 32 GB 3200 RAM, and a 1070.
First 10 minutes fps constantly drops down to 1 while the GPU is compiling shaders or something. When done, fps is like 60-100 :/

It's horrible. Doom 2016 runs at full speed (200 fps). Eternal is still somewhat slower

Yeah, I had heard about having to "warm it up" until the shaders were compiled. Well, that's a shame. : (

yes it is. Not that have the patience to wait 5 minutes for a duel but from time to time I do want to play it.

The level of neglect from id is criminal.

The worst part is, what they would see if they read this sub-thread would be "it doesn't run well on Linux". And obviously ignore it, because who cares. But this is not a case of not supporting a super niche platform. Instead, the underlying problems make it unplayable for A LOT of people on Windows as well.

And what's worse, because of the game's tendency to trip itself into some kind of desync on the tiniest frame drop, you get a lot of players complaining about "servers".

So you get a million threads about how bad servers are, but we can demonstrate how most of the time, it's caused by the client. It needs gamer-grade expensive hardware (it loves high clocks, even for memory, I've never seen a game this DRAM-bound), otherwise it just plays like crap.

An esports title should be playable on a potato PC. This one simply isn't. I've seen threads on the Bethesda forums where people can't even start the game while meeting the minimum requirements.

It improved by a lot since the million dollar tournament that was streamed at 15 FPS, and it's still in Early Access, so yeah, we can't complain - it's not ready for release, so thankfully it hasn't been released, right? Right? :)

My attempts:

__GL_SHADER_DISK_CACHE_PATH='/home/lam/.nv/QC' __GL_SHADER_DISK_CACHE_SKIP_CLEANUP=1 WINEDEBUG=fixme-all,err-d3d gamemoderun mangohud ./qclauncher.exe > /dev/null 2>&1

- separate shader cache for QC (so it doesn't overflow other games / doesn't get cleaned by other programs)
- skip shader cache cleanup (so it can grow and cache all the shaders eventually)
- disable wine console spam / redirect it to /dev/null because otherwise it's blocking I/O
- gamemoderun because QC is notorious for requiring performance mode in Windows (it does change your cpu governor to performance, aka same effect)

It still works better in Proton (with the same shader cache environment variables) than in wine-staging 5.12 (5.13/14 broke qclauncher).

But even in Proton it's "unplayable" [1] because the game code can't handle frame time spikes at all (it immediately gets desynced and you can't hit stuff, not to mention sound desync). It's the same on Windows of course, but on Windows at least you can throw hardware at it and minimize the effects. Here, the microdrops are there regardless of hardware used.

[1] it's technically playable and a noob wouldn't even tell the difference, but it's "unplayable" for veteran noobs like us ;)

indeed :(

these are p. good suggestions. Especially linux.

Also need an option to force cosmetics off for ranked play and let us use real PM skins/colors. Not this shitty outline stuff.

Create a champion that doesn't have weapons drawn, cause that's pretty much the only reason I don't play this dogshit game. Having to suffer with weapon models that take up 90% of the screen

Hate it? Love it?

Like it a lot.

Used to hate it but now like it, or vice versa?

Liked the concept since the beginning, reminds me of some fighting game, it's cool. Makes the diff characters more unique, in a sense that it's not only a skin change (like in any previous quake). Was worried that it would end up like overwatch tho, back in 2017 right before game release.

Like the idea but not the execution?

Idd the execution isn't perfect. And there's "only" 16 champions even in 2020. Would've been nice to get ~20 champions in total (and prolly definitive number of champions) at the end of 2020 / beginning of 2021.

Like some of the champions but not others?

Champions are fine as long as they're balanced and don't break the quake's gameplay (maps, weaps tiers, movements, items control(or not), symmetrical gameplay when it comes to the things mentioned previously(except movements, but that's fine still)).
I still don't like that champions pick/ban concept tho, You should be able to play with whichever champion you want in any map (just like in a fighting game).

Some are overpowered / underpowered perhaps?

Current champions balance is much much better than back in 2018 for ex, but there's still perhaps 1 or 2 champs that are basically good/very good in almost any situations while 2 or 3 champs are barely pickep up. Balance is fine but not perfect. Will see how it goes in the future.

Too many champions?

Not enough champions :>. I'd say 20 champs would be the perfect number, in term of diversity related to balance :).

Maybe you don't care for how champions are unlocked / accessed?

Yeah, idc ^^

If you feel like Champions aren't a good mechanic, what other new mechanic would you propose to replace it?

Weeballs !!! :D

Nah, I mean, champions are fine, so are weeballs. I like both. And champs ain't the issue with QC.

The issues are the performance (engine could've been id tech 6/7 or something, but anyway the game, altho not being the prettiest quake ever, still looks more than decent), the lack of content/maps, the poor marketing attempt, the lack of real update for like 8(?) months now, and it's basically duel only (duel is fine but quake isn't ONLY duel), and some poor executions (remember rounds duel ? sacrifice ? slipgate ? old champ balance ? old weap balance ?) in a sense that it kind of look like q4 and ql, it took them literally 3 years or something to "set a standard" out of the game, in term of balance and competitiveness, seems like they're repeting the same mistakes from q4 and ql.

It still sucks. It will never be balanced.

The issue is not even for the abilities to be "balanced" between each other (giving you can even "balance" 3 seconds of immortality+ invisibility with 3 grappling hooks or a wallhack or farting flames), the issue is that different champions, hitboxes, stacks, speeds, movement styles, and abilities make for a random inconsistent soup and kills the CORE of what makes quake exciting- the item and map control, dodging, etc. on an equal basis.

The effects can be seen in how the game is played at the highest levels: it's an overaggressive brainless rushfest that alternates with idle moments when someone's aggression is stunted by some skilled "F" press or someone is fucking around waiting for the ultimate to recharge. The flow is horrible and broken, and it makes little sense while spectating.

Paradoxally, champions worked better for what the game was originally built around and for: round based duel.

Yes, it sucked less. Because the agony lasted less, and even if someone had to pick the wrong champion, he could quickly use another one more suited to counter. Also the higher stake made every move more calculated.

As it is right now, it just sucks. When watching Quake 3/4/live you got the sense of the importance of every armor stolen, every new weapon added to the arsenal, every favourable position controlled.

Actions made more sense and had more value.

The matches were also much more balanced, and very rarely resulted in one sided stompings like in quake champions often happens.
One player gets the ball rolling, and it just snowballs from there. When it's the last 2-3 minutes of the fight, he just goes into running/hiding/spam F backward mode, and the game is over.
Comebacks are almost impossible and extremely rare.

It just sucks, and it will keep sucking.

maybe you should watch the raisy vengeur matches from recent QPL finals ...
basically a counterproof to your rant

What is happening there?

games are exciting and not onesided stompings ... rapha is very strong right now and all his games are one sided right now (and a bit boring because of that) ... but if you go to the other pro's you get to see some back and forth ...

Yes, i'm sure one match between two teammates who knows each others' styles better than anyone else is a good counterpoint to the whole argument.

Actually I would love if they try duel with disabled abilities, QL physics, same hitbox. All champions to be the same, i.e. skins. Just to see how it goes.

Would love also forcemodel, but let's keep it real - the small amount of money they got from the game comes from visuals.

Still, even as it is - I love it and enjoy watching the matches between the pros. Playing it is also A LOT better vs the round based f*rt.

I like it.
Gameplay is good/fun.

Game engine is shit.

Would like q1 or q3 gfx.. Darker mood.

When will all the quake players just give up and play... q1-q3?

When will someone competent with proper legality just touch up all three legacy games with newer graphics and all the mods and maps and sell it in one package deal, with a fucking good server list that is akin to all seeing eye? When?!?!

after the industry collapses from the liberal infection.

until then its quake shitpeons
or shower with your dad simulator

I was literally WTF even back then before they release it when I found out they will not use DOOM 2016 engine that was so good (id tech 6). Still don't understand why in the world... maybe issue with easy implementation of new cosmetics? :D

Doom amd doom eternal have cosmetics.

Doom 1996 engine is better and more cosmetic

ppl with no skill are still complaining, because they cant deal with the given gameplay/balancing.

that's a weird opinion given that most of the qpl "pros" got ran out of overwatch or sabotaged their careers in it like cypher. also, "skill" in a 600 player game lol nice meme. call me when quake champions has 3500+ player signups for it's tourneys like smash bros, or 1800+ sign ups for tekken and street fighter 5.

ps: rapha was hardstuck platinum in league of legends. that's what 600 player quake skill looks like.

Will not bother to play the champions meme. Pure 1v1 or it's a joke.

it would have made sense if they actually wanted to become an overwatch competitor, in the sense of being a class based shooter. they didn't actually pull that off though. instead, they created a trashy hybrid of character attributes with quake's resource management of armors, weapons, ammo and health pickups. this had the simultaneous effect of making the team modes too much about the item pickups, which made overwatch and tf2 players uninstall; and it made the 1v1 mode too much about the characters. the failure to attract a playerbase for team modes, combined with the subsequent nerfs to character abilities in late 2018 are proof of what i'm saying.

the graphics were also horrible. i don't understand why every quake game has to be the same dark, decrepit gothic architecture with some weird sci-fi techology theme, with metal surfaces slapped on randomly. it always looks terrible and it's probably a big part of why everyone used picmip in the past, which doesn't really exist for this game. fucking mirror's edge afps would look better than this shit. especially when the engine looks so old and outdated, and it honestly wouldn't surprise me if this is the exact same build they used to make halo online.

for me it's just a sign that id software is no longer an industry leader when it comes to the multiplayer genre, and odds are they never will be. they market their games as being "competitive", fail to produce a game that retains any players, and then cater to 1v1 for the remainder of that game's lifespan. all it really amounts to is a game with less players than call of duty: black ops 3, and worse graphics.

Id software barely has any employees of the original area left, if any. Quake 3 was a game John Carmack did after he drove John Romero out of the company which was basically the end of id. Nowadays id is an ip of Bethesda which is a company which tries to scam its customers.

Romero left after Quake I

Was he even involved in Quake 1?

Lead designer and director John Romero later conceived of Quake as an action game taking place in a fully 3D world...

Source

Strogg might be slightly OP, I still don't know about the fast champs slash and anarki ...
but there is a big heterogenity of champions right now in QC and in normal pub tdm games you can basically make any champion work

I think the design of QC is clever. It ties together various communities of Quake, while capitalizing on the hero shooter trend. Visually/aesthetically, I think it's also fairly well-made. Some of the champs are bland (like Athena or Eisen), but Scalebearer, Visor, Anarki, Nyx, and DK are outstanding, imo. The maps are visually balanced for clarity but also keeping in the Lovecraftian themes. It also has some pretty modern visual effects (like screen-space reflections).

Like others have said, I think the execution fell short, especially at launch. With how much modding has happened in the Quake community over the decades, the standards were really sky-high for veteran Quake players. There have been decades of polishing, tweaks, and additions/mods by the Quake community, that just was not there on day 1 for Quake Champions.

The performance is kinda wonky with QC. Not as terrible as some people claim, but it's not as silky smooth as other games (like Reflex).

As for the netcode, I think there are some severe challenges present. When you have a variety of hitbox sizes, movements, and abilities, there are way more variables that require balancing. Furthermore, they've intentionally made the game more forgiving for higher ping players, and that just makes everything a bit fuzzier with hit registration.

The last thing I'll say is that if you've been playing the same Quake game for many, many years, playing on the same handful of maps over and over, you're very likely not going to like anything that deviates too much from that. Even if some players say they are open to change, I think they're probably unaware of how deep their biases are towards whichever flavor of Quake they're most comfortable with. I remember when I first played Reflex (after playing CPM for so many years), I was put off by all sorts of things, even how the game itself felt. It took a while to acclimate to how it felt, and then finally I started to appreciate it for what it was. Likewise, I think a lot of Quake players did not like QC initially because it was different, and that made them uncomfortable. Why be uncomfortable when you can keep playing the game you already enjoy, endlessly?

Even with expectations of fans from the POV of standard quake without mods, quake (and unreal) is in league of it’s own. What was done with qc was the equivalent of selling a novel shoe polisher boasting ingenuity, but the fans find out that the ingredient for the shiner was entirely human fecal matter — they didn’t even bother masking the scent.

Maybe there was good ideas but they stood on a soft base made of shit.

I think the visuals are something looked on from an very uninvolved point of view. Like i am randomly watching Youtube Videos and suddenly stumble upon QC. Then they seem spectacular and nice. But if you have to deal with them on a bit mote they are getting old really really fast. Personally for me to a point where i get annoyed. And i don’t even play this game nor do i watch it on a regular basis. The visuals they are not timeless. Also it is really hard to spot things in the game which becomes exhausting. Also i recognized do not feel as i am part of the action but more like i am trying to remember a fuzzy dream. I realized that when i rewatched some QL finals because i wanted to compare that to QC. In Q3/QL i felt excitement and part of this was because of crystal clear visuals which made and make me feel like my own feet are standing on the ground of the arena. In QC it feels like i am watching something from a VHS on one of the first color TVs.

I like it in pro games, where strategy is involved. In ranked everybody elo whores with the map's best champ or just plays doom. Ranked community is cancer.

Nyx - I hate her, but fine i guess.
Anarki - fine.
Slash - fine.
Athena - could use a buff.
Ranger - orb is too powerful as offensive tool.
Visor - fine.
Galena - totems shouldn't do dmg or do less dmg.
BJ - fine
Doom - Hate him, but fine i guess. The punch could be nerfed even more.
Strogg - fine.
DK - really sucks, buff it somehow.
Eisen - I wish you couldn't just throw the turret and use it as an immediate offensive weapon.
Scale - fine.
Clutch - fine.
Sorlag - remove the puke from your pov when it hits. Or nerf puke.
Keel - fine.

Remove tiered armors

There are a number of abilities that still don't work.

Doom - the punch is completely desynched from its animation; also, silent perk passive was thrown away just like that
Scalebearer - the hit detection of the stomp is bugged, at times you will be hit by thin air; sometimes the stomp is stopped by thin air
Ranger - the damage by the orb is not consistent
Sorlag - not bugged but WAAYY overpowered. Balanced? ROFL good one
Death knight - it doesn't do much...really weak and stupid ability

I also hate that most abilities are tricky to use, with things to look out for and so on, but nothing is explained anywhere.
What became of the planned tutorials? they vanished without a word..

Kits.

If you're going to have Champions or a Hero Shooter, then you have to lock their weapons to their characters, like all successful Hero Shooters. Or, if you're going to have weapon Pickups, then you have to make it a pure Arena Shooter, and not add Champions.

A "Heavy" can't run around with a "Snipers" rifle, or a "Scout" can't run around with a Rocket Launcher... etc. but that's exactly the kind of unbalancing that occurs in QC. Hero shooter fans aren't attracted to that, but neither are pure Arena fans. Hero Shooter fans like to specialize or "Main" a few Heroes with their kits and roles. Pure Arena fans don't like roles or abilities, so they needed to either pick one genre over the other and not discourage both.

I've sunk a few guilty hours into some Hero Shooters with friends, but I still can't "get into" QC's hybrid. I'd rather play one genre or the other. And as a pure Arena fan I was fully ready to bite the bullet and get behind a pure Quake Hero Shooter. All with classic payload modes and a standard CTF, but they didn't make that.

I don't understand how they glossed over locking Champions weapons to their kits, or simply leaving a classic Ranger Duel or TDM for pure Arena fans. It discouraged both fan sets yet attracted neither.

Exactly. Quake core of weapons and items pick don't mix with different champions, hitboxes, speeds, stacks and abilities.

They went even further (full retard), they weren't satisfied with light, medium and heavy champions, they obsessed about giving all heavy champions superior mobility for some impossibly retarded reason. Probably becuase it's the taste of opposites? Heavy but fast? Who knows what's the retarded reasoning that lead to that.

champions should make the game easier so noobs may get a frag...
but champions made the game even harder to learn due you need to know All champion abilities, their cooldown, their benefitis and disadvantages, their unique movement and and and

Ofc champions are a bad thing and doesnt belong to quake. Its not easy to learn, hard to master anymore. Its just not quake :(

like in OW meta game huge

exactly like dota 2 or LoL mid game and end game + ranked skill

well I would argue that every moba and br shooter gets even more obscured ability / weapon system, if you want to start play LoL, Dota, OW, Apex or anything like that, you need to learn a fuckton of stuff just not to die, I dont think that this is the root cause that qc doesnt have any appeal

Thanks for all of the feedback so far! Interesting to see such a diversity of opinion; very insightful!

The main problem with QC is it is super rail heavy as it does more damage and players have less stack. Also tired armors... just why.

I just flew in.
Boy are my armors tired

I liked the concept at first, because as someone pointed, especially in duel I felt it could be something like fighter games, and I liked how many gameplay - affecting possibilities it could bring into the duel model

the only reasonable change they made to first duel mode was making it bo5, they didnt tried to mess a little with frag limit per round or anything, they just stuck with the initial concept throughout first 2 years, despite of very active community on official forums and tons of input and gameplay ideas people were putting, myself included.

and here we are going back into the clue - the game generally 'failed' because of sync and tim beeing themselves, I got tricked into thinking this time would be different, and maybe they fucked up with QL, but now they are older, their egos got tempered or anything - ofcoursely it was bullshit.

all the gameplay changes were sparse and far in between, especially in beta phase, instead they opted for making milion of balance tweaks that in the end made absolutely nothing - instead of working on the gameplay to make it as satisfying as possible and making the game playable on wide range of hardware, they just pretended to do something by tweaking the config files with champions parameters, their approach is just disgraceful

edit - ok maybe one other thing they made were the hitbox improvements, but it took them like half a year to tweak 12 hitbox models SMH

You are right, Tim, sync and sponge already took an amazing game in Q3a with OSP/CPMA mods and made it into a way worse version with less options with QL. Finally they even abandoned the resason to do so in the first place, runs in browser and is free...the same shit they did with QC, fucked it up then made a 180 much too late and gave us 10min duels instead of rounds. Made the game free to play (I payed 40€ for this shit).
It's almost unbelievable, but only these three people basically ruined Quake on their own.

Time to go back to QW... because while QL exists, even when it's by far the lesser version, no cunt is playing Q3a anymore.

pretty much what I meant - they gave out the tl duel like they wanted to tell us 'here, this is 5 bucks, now fuck off'
exactly just like with steam release of QL

now they just milk some bootlickers that still buy the battlepass for new retarded hats, and that's it:

pay ~100$ for aws host yearly, get someone on upwork to make some 3d models twice a year


to see the whole scope of what they did just think back to the moment of QL open beta and see how much of interest it build, everyone was hype, people back then wanted to quake like mad, they flushed it all down the drain with amazing effect, QC gets like 300 people online on saturday peaks

I want to see new steam stats and especially next to QL steam stats

See and weep: https://steamcharts.com/cmp/611500,282440#1m

Amen

140 dmg shotgun
LOL

1. Giving a Tank CPM Movement was the worst idea ever. Sorlag should be either a Mid-Champ or have VQ3 Movement.

2. Clutch is also still too fast for a tank. Also, I feel like a tank should never have a shield. Because it already has an advantageous stack, just by being a tank. So they gotta rethink Clutch‘s abilities.

3. The Shotgun is still too powerful and the reloadtime is too fast, which makes it worse. Have a slower firing rate, at least.

4. Game needs some additional 25 Armor. Can‘t they just color it differently? 25 for green, 50 yellow.. 100 red.. And how about Armor shards? 5 Health bubbles?

Clutch shield ability could be reworked to absorb/protect only against hitscan weapons.
this means it would compensate for being such a big target.. but still be vulnerable as usual against projectiles (rockets, nails, tribolt).

who the fuck cares about armor colors omfg I swear this is the weirdest community ever, they want exact q3 clone for 30 years straight.

100 "red" armor is called "heavy" now bohooo I'll shit my pants why it is not red armor like q3 reeee 😭

No, rather whole esports thing is very immature trying to push a new game every few years. Try proposing a balance patch to chess players.

In any other game/sport you take for granted that you can start as a kid and play casually or have a career with (almost) unchanged rules for the rest of your life if you want to, so that your skills don't go to waste. You can hang out with your old friends in the game and connect with new generations.

A lot of ppl my age don't play new games and only play old ones they grew up with. They don't care and don't have time for new games. They don't have weeks or months to put into learning a new game, can just hop in for a match once a week or even less often and do good. The difference with chess etc. is that these games were replaced so there are no new players and they die off slowly.

quake was simply too small for this, but maybe these hugely popular modern games will stay for longer.

PS: I just realised I wrote all this in reply to someone called FloatingBallsLOL... whatever, post

your game is a low ttk piece of shit with zero casual or competitive appeal, that's being played by players who got ran out of overwatch and players that were hardstuck platinum in league of legends like rapha.

there's a reason why quake champions has less than 600 concurrent players, and why people have moved on to battle royales, csgo, call of duty, valorant, league of legends, dota2 etc. id software is no longer an industry leader in multiplayer games, and odds are they never will be. but feel free to keep bragging about a game with less players than black ops 3 and worse graphics lmao.

not gonna lie, watching your shitty DBT pulling 20 viewers (LOL) during EU prime time makes me hard.

I've always felt that for a game like quake or another ego shooter to take off it would need an objective game mode akin to assault from unreal tournament. That mode alone is why i even enjoyed UT.

Not sure about making the mode competitive, but it would certainly draw a lot of casuals. Chasing armors and quads is boring and not obvious to casual players.

Not to mention the retarded decision of using normal DM maps for CTF. THis was fucking stupid.