haha dunno bro, but isn't it true that when u use thinshaft (cgzoomfov with cg_fov) u can only use this zoom:
set zoomin ;cg_zoomfov 50
set zoomout ; cgzoomfov 100
bind x "+vstr zoomin zoomout"

True, you use the built in zoomsens but the final sens ratio is based on the two zoomfov senses. For example:

cg_zoomfov 100 (normal fov) sens ratio: 1,1144222
cg_zoomfov 50 (zoom fov) sens ratio: 0,5140347

Which gives a final sense ratio of 0,4612567.

People who want to use zoom as a toggle and don't use thinshaft use 2 cg_fov's which is option 2. I don't know if people use option 3, never heard anything about it yet, but it does make some sense :o

Option 1 looks like a decent combination of 2 and 3, however it is NOT based on your cg_fov value so it would only be correct if you use cg_fov 90 (actually the sens scale factor is 1 at zoomfov 91.xxx).

Changing cg_fov whilst zoomed in using cg_zoomfov has no effect on your sens, use cl_showmouserate 1 to show it like you say in your next post, ive been experimenting with zooming and multifov per weapons and option #1 is correct for sens scaling whilst using cg_zoomfov as your fov acording to cl_showmouserate.

Changing cg_fov whilst zoomed in using cg_zoomfov has no effect on your sens

Exactly, that is why option 1 is incorrect for any cg_fov other then 90 (if your not using thinshaft).

Example: cg_fov 140, zoomfov 45 -> +zoom will roughly halve your sens (45/90) and that is not what you would like (fov ratio 45/140=0,32).

Cunfused me or what, and yea i am using thin shaft, i think the scaling is actualy useful, im using zoomfov 110 for RL and zoomfov 90 for RG (testing) both set at sens 7, which makes the RG have a slightly lower sens, 6.882380 and the RL slightly higher @ 8.767073 as reported by cl_showmouserate which is maybe a good thing for them weapons.

If you wish you can change the sens ratio between those weapons and fovs, here goes:

thinshaft (+zoom) sens ratio = cg_zoomfov 90 sens / cg_zoomfov 110 sens = 6.882380 / 8.767073 = 0,7850261

Divide the DESIRED ratio with this +zoom ratio and multiply it with the RG sensitivity. Examples:

Option 2:

Desired ratio: 90 / 110 = 0,8181818
Desired ratio / +zoom: 0,8181818 / 0,7850261 = 1,0422352
Multiply with RG sens: 1,0422352 x 7 = 7,2956464

Option 3:

Desired ratio (tan): 0,7002075
Desired ratio / +zoom: 0,7002075 / 0,7850261 = 0,8919545
Multiply with RG sens: 0,8919545 x 7 = 6,2436814

Then replace S with the new RG sens:

set RL "weapon 5; cg_zoomfov 110; sensitivity 7"
set RG "weapon 7; cg_zoomfov 90; sensitivity S"

Ofcourse you can use any desired ratio, not only option 2 or 3.

BTW You can check your actual mouse sensitivity with "cl_showmouserate 1". Move your mouse and the sensitivity is displayed (second number).

i dunno about option 3, but if you want to 'keep the same feeling' you have to use option 1. That is, if you halve the fov you should halve the sens to keep the same feeling.

What you say is option 2 :)

And yes, I want to "keep the same feeling" with and without zooming to not f**k up my aim any further ;)

yeh well in that case its option 2, option 3 is wrong :)
I think it's pretty intuitive but it can also be proven :

if you move the mouse a distance d, that causes an angle change of <d irrespective of the fov, where <d is directly proportional to d. To 'keep the same feeling' the proportion of <d to the fov must always be the same. In other words <d/FOV = constant. but <d is directly proportional to the sensitivity, therefore sensitivity/FOV = constant. If s' is the sensitivity you want to calculate for ZOOMFOV then s/FOV = s'/ZOOMFOV.

That sounds logical, but imo you forget the projection from 3D to 2D.

If you halve your fov you see less of the "3d world", right? To be precise you see tan(zoomfov/2) / tan(normalfov/2) x 100% of the world. Measure it on your screen, when zoomed in the size of an object on your screen will be multiplied by (1 / that factor). To me it seems quite logical to multiply your sensitivity by the same factor to be consistent.

I also just playtested this and when I used option 2 I overshot very often, in other words I moved the mouse to far. When I used option 3 it felt right and my rg acc went skyhigh :>

hey i've studied mechanical engineering as well, not too many of those around ;)

especially among those hardcore gaming IT addicts here ;p

Hehe, which university? I will graduate in august/september \o/

hbo fontys venlo 8)

ps, do you know the thinsens prog?

Ah, TU Delft here. I know that program yes, but it's only useful for thinshafters, which i'm not :)

there's mechanical engineer students in all walks of life...just look at amy reid.

yea I hear she passed that sliding friction analysis just in time for her appearance in Weapons of Ass Destruction #5. (gedit, anal ysis? daayum)

That's quite a stretch.

xls? excel? Who got that shit? =)

Who doesn't? :>

Doesn't everbody?

this is too much of thinkin for nothing, although i didnt read your file.
just put what suits u :P

I started this thread because of my scientific curiousity, not to became l33t at Q3 :)

yeah i can beleive that putting in pratic your knowledge can be interesting :)

id rather figure out how to rob a bank w/o geting cought

+zoom is a curve

cg_fov is a line

tan is a more aggressive +zoom curve centered at 90 fov

think of it this way

2 is a straight line, 90 deg inclination

1 starts at the same point, but ends higher with an even curve all the way through

3 starts lower and ends significantly higher then 1, with the 2 lines intersecting at roughly the midpoint

1/2 of this is probably off by some margin or other

Yes, this I've noticed, but which one is correct? :)

I briefly looked over this thread and i'm lost =p If I use a fov of 90 with a sense of 5 and i use a zoomtoggle script to change to cg_fov 45, should that sense be 2.5 if I want the mouse to move the exact same distance on the screen (not in the actual q3 environment) when the mouse is moved? P.S I do not use zoomfov at all, just cg_fov.

imo if you want the mouse to move the same distance on the screen you need option 3, which I use myself atm.

Ratio: tan(45/2) / tan(90/2) = 0.414213562
Zoomsens: 0,414213562 x 5 = 2.071067812

I would suggest to try this sens and also 2.5 (option 2) and use what feels better to you. Can you report your results here, I'm curious :)

shouldn't zoomsens be higher than normalsens if you wan't to move the same distance on the screen?

as i understood it you mean that he should use sens 5 with fov 90 and sens 2.071 with fov 45?

You understood it correctly. When zoomed in your field of view is smaller then normal, to compensate for this you lower your sens. Try typing /cg_fov 20 and moving your mouse around. Disorientated? :>

hmm i don't know if i got this right.

if you use cg_fov 50, u have to move the mouse longer to turn 360 degrees than u have to when using cg_fov 90.

wasn't your goal to calculate a sens that makes you move the same amount when zoomed in as zoomed out?

(ex. i have to move my mouse 15 cm on my mousepad to turn 360 degrees, but i have to move 25 cm when i have lower fov...)

Sensitivity is centimeters mouse movement per degree rotation in Q3, so if you halve your sens you will take twice as much cm to turn 360 defrees irrespective of fov.

But when you aim you don't think in degrees, you think in size and distance of objects on your screen. That is defined by your current fov so that's why your sensitivity must be lower.

that's not the way i aim. I think in degrees.
That's why i can't play with inversemouse, and can't change my sens when zoomed.

The way i think is simple :
360° on screen = constant distance on pad, what ever the fov.

Hmm, I don't exactly know HOW I aim but I guess by judging distance and converting that distance to cm's of mousemovement in my brain. In the end it always comes down to what feels right.

I don't see you having much benefit from zooming then. Since you'll move the mouse exactly the same distance you won't be any more precise when zoomed than you normally are, only your aim will be shaky as hell. that's like walking with binoculars.

the end result of all this thought is that a zoom sensitivity ratio of 1 does not exist in quake, since tan and +zoom both are curves.

if you want consistent linear zoom use +cg, even more so if you change fov with different weapons

but since the rail is the only weapon zoomed (if at all), and an individual player only uses one fov with rail, all of this is fucking moot.

You don't really get the point :> "Consistent lineair zoom" as you call it may be NOT the correct ratio. And if only using rail for zoom this does matter when zoomed in.

this looks to involved to read... someone pm me if something wonderful happens...

lol me2.. now i remember why I hated Physics ;]

I'm still not sure if I understand this. Is the tangent equation only for fov 100? And does this thread only apply to ppl who use cg_zoomfov or +zoom? Because I use 100 fov, and a sense of 10, and when i change my cg_fov to 40, I change to sensitivity 4. What sense should i be changing to to move the same distance on my screen?

There are 3 ways of changing your sensitivity when zooming:

1. +zoom (built in)
2. lineair, divide cg_fovs like you did
3. tangent relation, which to my knowledge describes the ratio of the size of your screen.

Which one you pick is your choice. My question was which is the correct one, but until now I'm only explaining stuff instead of getting answers :>

I'm still not sure if I understand this. Is the tangent equation only for fov 90? And does this thread only apply to ppl who use cg_zoomfov or +zoom? Because I use 100 fov, and a sense of 10, and when i change my cg_fov to 40, I change to sensitivity 4. What sense should i be changing to to move the same distance on my screen?

Good

Haha almost couldn't remember making this post. Leet shit, but the booze must have destroyed too many braincells by now ;p

So how come when you have cg_zoomfov and cg_fov set to the same thing, your sensitivity changes when you zoom in?

because q3 +zoom is broken

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=585635#pid585635

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=586452#pid586452

Ah thx 4 the url man! Now I know why czm is used to be called the crazyman ;D