This is definitely not the right way to adjust the gameplay but I agree with the thing that it's deffo been more fun.

Of course it's not. I also noticed how alot of players miss items due to them now being smaller. Thats was a good fix! Maybe it's time to fix the rocketjump bug aswell!

ok... im missing the rj bug wich one is it?

Initialy the rocketjump was admited to be a bug by id software. And since arqon likes to fix buges. It was a joke that maybe he should fix it.

there actually is a rocket jump bug. see this thread. but it's more likely that the CPMA guys will "fix rocket jumps" the way you suggested than to fix the bug I linked.

If you understood what was being discussed you might realise that's not a bug but is an inevitable result of having clientside movement and serverside shooting.

so you won't fix the bug?

your deductive abilities amaze me

I don't get it.

he said it's inevitable, as is you can't change it.

but of course they will fix the bug in the next release.
should be out in 17 minutes.

Ahh.. ok that part i was aware (kinda came to the mind when i post it) i was thinking it was a bug related to the rjs ;D

thanks :)

RocketJump wasn't/isn't a bug though, the code is working properly just in an unexpected way. RJ is an exploit at most ;)

was kinda unfair though, for example, the stage monitors were like 2ms, nice quality monitors, whereas the dell ones that were being used in the player areas = zZz. imo jibo really was the best player at the tournament, but his semi final against killsen was on the shitty monitors, whereas rapha got to play cypher on the stage with the nice monitors. if you looked at the group stages cypher dropped 2-0 to rapha and most people were commenting that he wasn't adapting his playstyle at all, even despite his strong rocket aim he was playing shaft bias on the shitty monitors as you would on a tft. i'm just sad panda'd cause jibo didn't get to play his semi final on good monitors like cypher did.

Haven't suggested that it was fair. Since it's quite obvious. More entertaining matches overall, thats all.

(c)gtv

I for one welcome our new 60ms overlords.

GGs all round.

everyone had too play on the same monitors. Adapt, or die.

Isn't that like saying "everyone can use xerp, adapt or die."

i was under the impression xerp didn't do all that much on lan ping anyway?

Tell that to the whiners.

apparently it makes a large difference

No, it's not :)

Except it is.

So a command that changes SOME weapons is the same as a monitor that changes the feeling of the whole game? You are quite logical here.

You mean a command that works the same for everyone who uses it?! NO WAY.

Learn to read. It changes the feel of some weapons, not all. Monitor changes the feel for everything. Even how your mouse moves in windows.

So you support xerp?

I don't think it's needed with cpma's great netcode. Don't know if thats too nonsupport it tho.

The easiest solution(for what the problem is with cpma vq3 is, imo) is of course to nerf shaft(go quakelive!).

So you support random handicaps or buffs, so long as it's equal?

The whole point of the journal was too see if people agreed with me in what they saw here( gameplay with more weapons used and more strategic-based and not as much +forward with lg-based games, was more fun too watch.

Giving people bad monitors is of course not the way too do this. But, it did the job. IMO. Q3 was IMO fun to watch again, unlike the masters tournament.

Most of the matches were so slow paced, I had to alt+tab to stay awake. I helped my wife out with groceries and came back to one match that was 5 minutes in with 0-0. If you thought that was exciting, you'd love UT2k4.

if you put it this way, why are you still losing time here?

cause this is the only place with people naive enought to believe he has a wife?

AAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You could easily have seen her at Quakecon this and last year.

i would believe anyone with that many posts had a wife to avoid ;)

I'm only killing time until QL comes out and fails so I get to tell people how right I was. After that, I'm gone.

Were you abused as a child?

Whatever turns you on.

may I ignore you? help me finding the ignore button plz.

I dunno, maybe you should get your parents to help?

i'm more or less in the same boat as you actually

i'm more or less in the same boat as you actually

the love boat?

no the lifeboat taking me away from the sinking ship that is the competitive quake community

i know you're all thinking "but we just had this great tournament" except 25 players is hardly worth mentioning in this modern e-sports day

I disagree, masters was awesome and much easier to follow all matches.

I wasn't talking about how easy it was too follow matches. I meant the entertaining value of the overall games I saw.

Well, as if those 2 are that far away from eachother...

I could see ALL entertaining matches at masters, but I missed so many during the finals.

you are so retarded it hurts...

(Just tell him how you feel without sounding like a girl!)
-I miss you so much it hurts sometimes!


gotta love it :D

:D

It changes the feel FOR some weapons, you know very well xerp changes nothing to the weapons themself.

Of course not........
I meant that with xerp I hit 50% lg instead of 35%, and with xerprail 50% and noxerprail 50%. It changes my hit% on LG, not rail.

Well yes ofcourse, xerp causes trailaiming, big reaction time cut.

I think this is the only way in which logical* can be used to describe Vedic.

* Yes, I'm aware it is sarcastic.

I know you're jealous, but you don't have to try to impress me!

Also, Cypher still with a 40% LG in the finals.

So you didn't notice any difference in what weapon was used the most compared to the masters tourney?

Edit: and cypher had 29% and killsen 31% in the dm6 game. So you are pretty far off. You have to look in what situations the lg kills were made. And consider spam. And there was not alot of lg spam at all on dm6.

Just come on.... You seriously didn't notice any difference?!

and cypher had 29% and killsen 31% in the dm6 game

hi ztn

I *did* notice the shift in weapon use, but it wasn't just due to monitors, it was due to people playing extra cautiously. If you didn't notice THAT, you don't play enough Q3.

Again. Learn to read. I said the dm6 game.

And people playing extra cautiously? That's just bullshit :) People couldn't rely on their LG in the same way. Guess what, THEN you have too differently.

And cautiously, did you even watch the final?

What the hell are you talking about? In the dm6 game, the LG was used less due to the POSITIONING. Pay attention the game instead of just giggling like a schoolgirl and spamming GTV. Almost every game has been extremely defensive +back relying on the good old firing around corners and peek railing. Rockets can still easily thwart a 40+% xerp LG if you play correctly - and yes, that includes rush tactics.

Watch the games again. Don't just jump to reply... watch them and pay attention.

Sorry I had gtv_nospeech 1 so I was only paying attention..

So you are saying that the players of ESWC 08 learned positioning since ESWC masters. Thats a theory I guess :))

I'm saying that if you played with xerp for a few months, you'd easily learn where to be and not to be. LG is only strong when you can use it, just like RG is only strong on T4 if your opponent stands out in the open. All of the players were abusing peek shots and heavy +back gameplay. At masters, people were fighting LG with LG because nobody really knew what to do against the rush. Scores were extremely low (even on some hub matches) with common ties and minutes of running/hiding.

Note that LG hum was commonly used as intimidation to possible rushes, and players were scared shitless to turn any corner without 2x fake jumps. Each player directly saw the opponent maybe 1-2% of a game.

Saying that people figured this out in 2months when xerp has been around for years. I mean, how stupid do you think the current quake "elite" is. As you are certainly not one of em, and not saying that I am, you should present your ideas as theory's and not as facts. Which you, without a doubt, believe they are.

These players probably played the most q3 in ages between masters-finals probaly more than the entire time between eswc 2005 and masters 08.

People didn't know about xerp until recently!

*most people

Rockets can still easily thwart a 40+% xerp LG if you play correctly - and yes, that includes rush tactics.

yet no one is doing it? :(

z4 has been doing that since 2000. it's just that nobody takes the time to learn how to use rl effectively.

I love z4's rox... but he says in an interview himself, that under cpma, the RL has become a mid-tier weapon that isn't very effective defensively anymore. I think he talks about it in the interview in the "I loved losing so much" article.

killers rockets were $$$ tho.

they could get away with it at this event due to the monitors and yeah people use to do it all the time (zero4 and any russian)

but there's a reason they don't under normal conditions, you simply can't unless you catch them off guard in an enclosed area or you're lucky.

roflaslfloeafoasd;lajdsgkja;klfj

Vedic telling Fazz he doesn't play enough Q3. Time to /ignore.

Promises, promises. How many times must I endure this threat?

stage monitors did not have mouse input lag.

I'm sure the monitors were crap, however they were crap for everyone and it's like this wasn't known weeks prior to the tournament, or that this was the first tourney with simular monitors. In the end Cypher and Jibo managed to adjust and place top 4 like they've done consistently, other's failed to do that.

I agree with what CZM said in his interview that the attitude "i haven't pracced" or "i didn't care" as an excuse for losing is pretty disrespectful to those who actually came to this event prepared.

Following this event was great, huge amount of upsets and tight games. I think of the last 10 games like 4 of them went to OT. Rapha, Z4, chance and k1llsen obviously came well prepared and deserve props for perfomance. Especially rapha. I don't even remember such a tight ever before with such an amount of great games.

wouldn't agree shaft played a lesser role, at least in the latter stages of the tournament, where Jibo and Cypher aimed and moved close to perfection with all weapons. Seriously Jibo with LG might as well be using quad.

Your post has made me realize that CZM is basically the most mature, wise, and respectful player to grace Quake. Everytime I've seen him talk or read his interview transcripts, he's always been nothing but a classy sportsman.

I agree, one of the lamest things to be said at a tournie is "I haven't practiced" or "I didn't try." For instance, when Federer lost to Nadal, the only words Federer had for Nadal were that of praise. He said how good of a player he was and how he deserved his win and he's worked hard for it -- that's sportsmanship. There weren't any excuses... If Federer had said he hadn't practiced, everyone would've thought he was a fucken twat.

And that's why eSports is forever going to be a joke... because there aren't enough players like CZM out there. =(

ok we get it... you prefer the old rail +back style and some others happen to prefer the more arcade version of q3 with lots of shafting and the possibility to actually rush someone. big deal?

you make a fool out of yourself though with encouraging people to play quake under worse circumstances than they have to (bad monitors/ bad netcode).

He's not saying that, he's saying the IMPACT those factors have on the weapons (weapons which have not been scaled to match the improvemnt of player ability over the years) make the game more enjoyable to at least spectate and probably to play, had it been integrated into the gameplay instead of input lag via monitor.

Worse conditions?
Don't you see "worse netcode" and "worse monitors" are having the same sort of effect of what should be done to q3 weapons.

People get better and believe it or not exceed the weapon parameters that were created 10 years ago when you all sucked or were not even playing.

As I said. Of course it's not the way to solve the problem. But it showed how solving the problem would be like. And I liked what I saw.

Oh, and I can't say I perfer watching if22 play. And I don't agree that the top8 games was +back rail. Ok maybe jibo, but overall I think it was very entertaining matches.

Oh, and I can't say I perfer watching if22 play.

Why the hell did you mention that?

Cause I think he defines +back game play that is boring to watch. As I didn't find the games to be "old rail +back style". I don't think low scoring games necessarily means they are +back either.

He defines +back play? have you actually seen his matches during the finals?

Nope, didn't say anything about his style at this tournament either.... But he's always been known as teh +backer.

He isn't such a +backer anymore.

If you're going to compare the overall accuracies of the LG in both the Masters and this here leg of the tournament please tell us you did at list a little maths to come to this conclusion.

I hate to agree, but yes, this tournament was much much more enjoyable than Masters/GG from a spectator point of view.

Wow, you're so insightful. If only someone had noticed 8 or 9 years ago what a shallow all-hitscan game VQ3 is and how it would only get worse over time exactly like RG+CG did in Q2, and done something about it.

Good thing we've got your cutting-edge perceptions to point things out to rest of us. I'm stunned by this revelation - how could everyone have missed it for so long?!

This is groundbreaking stuff. You should let id know at once so they don't make the same mistake in Q4 a few years from now.

Good thing you didn't make it worse

haha exactly, what an idiot

Nothing else need to be said :)

watch out, his cult of cpm cocksuckers are plussing him

i wouldn't plus him due to his attitude, but he makes a fair point.. no offense to fazz, but don't blame technology for improving.. why should people not strive to make things better, just because vq3 is considered to be some holy untouchable standard within q3..

"no offense to fazz, but don't blame technology for improving.." How about people practice to improve like the rest of us rather than just enabling a command?

Cypher was supposed to be "all xerp" and then still won in QL. Old players like Zero4 and Fox are just bitter because they're not top material.

Since when was Cypher supposed to be all xerp? if you're referring to the opinion of idiots than yes he's all xerp. Don't put those words in my mouth; he was highly competitive in q3 for years, he was amazing in q4, and now this.

Zero4 and Fox aren't bitter, they're just calling it how it is, cpm + xerp changed the game, thats all that is being said. Cypher worked his ass off and adapted to it and he deserves his success.

Fox and z4 claim that Cypher was winning even though he was out of position, due to "how the game changed." czm's railgun used to be insane as he could use it out of position and even as a melee weapon, but now with LG, apparently it's OVERPOWARED. People are getting mad that there is more consistency in same weapon showdowns and that you can't simply win by getting the first hit.

Honestly, not everyone is hitting Cypher accuracy, and the skill gap is either the same as before or even wider. You can't honestly believe that xerp simply makes anyone hit amazing accuracy. Sure, it helps, but you could spend half as much time learning how to properly use rockets and counter it. Maybe rockets should be more like Q2 so they're not so easy to use, eh?

This line of thinking is redundant, and in a professional setting, there should be no question of if a player might simply have gotten lucky. Judging by the consistent results (considering the monitors were shitty) of Cypher have helped to prove the stability of CPMA as a professional platform, despite the shortcomings of VQ3..

oh look as usual nomadicunt can't answer

they're just calling it how it is, cpm + xerp

CPM IS THE GAMEPLAY, CPMA IS THE MOD GOD FUCKING DAMNIT

You're the "CPMA is a mod..." to my "It's Vo0, no voo!"

You complete me. xD

you're missing my point, what i'm saying is that the netcode in general breaks any balance vq3 might have had back in the OSP era.. but this is when the rules of vq3 should be altered to create balance once again..

if upgraded technology broke vq3, then repair vq3 :p

lmao, ofc they are. Wish we could see who [+]'s who on this site. [+] to Fazz!

are you that stupid or am I missing something here?

heh, is there?

but at least im not a:

jobless
fat
bald
deaf
dumb
ice rink
cunt

as you put it.

Click on the persons name, look for judgements :P

omg a new window for flaming and trolling has been opened!

Just click on the damn percentage...

omg a new window for flaming and trolling has been opened!

that may well be true

but you are a tool

so admitedly you are the following:

jobless
fat
bald
deaf
dumb
ice rink
cunt

and you go on a gaming website calling other people "tools". Fascinating stuff =)

read my previous post again

nomadic IS that stupid, lmao@cK

Wish we could see who [+]'s who on this site.

lol

click on the 14% moran

I was quoting the post I'd replied to. Get a brain, moran.

use quotes then, moran.


;/

didn't think i had to, there were already 10 posts or so in response to that one statement.

nobody quoted it tho, and with 10 replies in between i cant instantly see who or what you replied to ;)

anyways, whatever :d

lol icelandic people talking about others sucking cock, ironic innit

lol yea totally ironic

GET THAT DICK OUTTA YO MOUTH

lol what? u fail

epic

hey come on now, arqon is not responsible for the flaws of vq3 with a proper netcode.. the lg is overpowered in vq3, xerp or no xerp, simply because of slow and easy to predict movement..

if a person prefer having lag and unsmooth animations just because the game would be too easy without them, i suggest that person should stop taking himself seriously

Geez, se comment #2. Definitly not the way to fix the problem. It was just more entertaining to me than what vq3 is today on good setups.

as a player/friend, and since you know most of these guys, the sadness of them being forced to play on such shitty monitors outweighs the joy i get from watching them aim worse :)

don't get me wrong tho, most of the games on stage with the better lcd monitors were mostly awesome.. really enjoyable :)

So you'd publicly support changing the LG damage?

Of course, always did.

thing is, xerp makes the lg even more overpowered.

Well the parent post advocates shitty monitors - would you be happy if CPMA implemented a mandatory 60fps, blurry tearing POS rendering path?

Improving the platform exposes dodgy gameplay calls id made and people seem to get upset about that for some reason I can't actually understand.

But perhaps more likely is it raises the potential skill of players and perhaps theirs just don't cut it anymore. Crappy networks and bad hardware are a great equalizer.

I'm "upset" about xerp, not about better hardware/netcode whatever.

Edit: I'm actually upset about the loss of 125 fps physics, the loss of thrufloors, the loss of t4 and dm6tmp as well, come to think of it. Yes, I've been very bitter for years.

is it fun to see players underperforming, because if they were able to perform at their level of potential the game would become boring due to the gameplay being so rewarding towards aim? somewhere within that question lies the cancer that is killing vq3 :)

i came up with "considering its on shitty monitors" simply because i don't want to see who's the best player under some special "one event only"-circumstances.. i want the players to perform at their highest level of potential, and if this makes the game entirely aim-based, then so be it.. that only means vq3 is scheduled for surgery ^^

this mean speaks the truth. [+]

is this a level? god you're a tool

shaftwhoring > railwhoring any time, any day.

T4 ? : <

is and will always be the most boring map to spectate in q3, ever.
Yes, that's my opinion and it won't change.

And to play*

that would be ztn. with jibo on it.

hub jibo vs killsen isnt so bad either :)

half agree with you, half not

there were some great games last few days sure and yea you have to say that was partly due to aim being less dominant. But i love to watch games played at the highest possible level otherwise we may as well just watch Internet games.

Watching players such as cypher taking q3 to new levels at the masters tourney was just more impressive and exciting to watch imo.

aye pretty amazing how players can continue to take the games to new levels considering it's a 'shallow game' and 'anyone with 40% lg will rank among the best' or something to that effect.

To all that are using the "everybody had to use shitty monitors" argument. How can you be so stupid? Seriously. First, lower technical standards lowers the skill gap between better and worse players. Second, Quake3 isnt a game about adapting to hardware. In fact it should be exactly the opposite, adapting to opponents. Being limited by hardware in a 1999 game at 2008 is such nonsense.

Well. You have to make the best of it every time as a professional gamer. Even tho the tournament isn't professional. If esports is too be come accepted globally. Isn't the spectator the most important factor?

And again. Of course the players should feel as comfortable as possible aswell, good hardware, good lodging and so on.

The only thing I meant with this journal was that vq3 is broken. And the monitors in this case made the games more enjoyable to watch, for me. Me personally and obviously I don't expect everyone too feel the same. I thought that I saw more adaption based games now than at gg/masters. But that's still just a theory. Since I can't really know this. But neither can anyone really.

I just wanted too share my thoughts and see if anyone thought like me. Sharing, isn't that what build community's as this one, after all.

[/pointless defense thoughts]

First, lower technical standards lowers the skill gap between better and worse players.

care to elaborate?
because you could also argue that only the best can really cope with bad circumstances and the aim only crows suffers the most.



e.g. in formula one when it's raining you don't see the drivers all ariving at the same time.

An easy example would be a ball mouse vs a optic one, or playing with mono sound. Dont know how you dont get it.

it's not about "not getting" it, more curiosity cause I'm not really convinced that input lag effects the top players more than the somewhat worse players.

but weather and natural conditions can't be controlled. hardware can. if you had the power to stop the rain so that all the F1 drivers can perform at their potential, would you or would you not? i'd do it tbh.

yes adaptability is a big factor in lots of sports but only because of uncontrollable factors like weather and time. just imagine if the admins of ESWC had actually used the stage monitors everywhere else. we would have seen a lot of players like fox, noctis and others doing better. i think that's a good thing.

i agree it's not an analogy, but it wasn't really meant to be.
It was just meant to point out that negative factors don't necessarily hurt the very best more than the weaker contenders.

i don't entirely agree. how come fox, who played so well in Masters to place second over people like z4, czm, rapha and others... did so badly? he's not #1 but he's definitely one of the best players in the game today. definitely not on the "weaker" side. i don't think there was such a huge jump in skill levels in between Masters and ESWC Grand Finals. how come noctis dropped against toxter, who afaik is more of a CPM player...?

I think it's not certain either way, cause just like you said, the changes affect different players differently. Some have more troubles than others.

Look at it this way. Cypher is arguably the best player atm, but it seems like fox (or maybe noctis) had the biggest troubles with the screens.

But if what gSTRUCTOR said was true then cypher would have had the biggest trouble to adjust.

yea but looking at the post above by ddk, apparently cypher played his last few games on stage using good 2ms monitors. jibo on the other hand had to use the shittier ones back at the players area even though he was in the semi finals as well.

if i'm not mistaken, cypher played his first game against rapha on the crappy ones. he looked completely helpless in that match.

there was only one semi slot reserved for the main stage. it's only jibo's fault for having such an unattractive style of play. you want to present the best of quake on such an event, not some douche bwing trough tele for 10 mins.

its still unfair...

if the eswc staff ain't able to host fair tournaments they shouldn't host tournaments at all imho.

"fault for having such an unattractive style of play?" wtf, at a tournament of this scale, people do whatever it takes to win. how does it stop the admins from giving him the same monitor as cypher?

only one stage?

get more of the same monitors and hook them up at the players area as well?

cba sry

well that's just shitty then :)

yea that's too bad

"how come noctis dropped against toxter"

watch the demos and you'll know ;)

cant find the demo. what happened?

ftp://ftp.eswc.com/demos/2008/eswc2008/Quake3/Stage%201

ty

considering its on shitty monitors (c) noctis

considering its on shitty monitors (c) Sun Tzu

excepting the troll, I disagree. I think it's old players slowly getting their skills back. they had more time to prepare for the event, and they took advantage of it. they were more confident in using RL and learned to "quick-hide" against shaft, in needed situations. most original style at eswc finals here, rapha. the one which was really getting in his top superpowers, faster than all the others, maloy, despite the fact that he did not attend eswc. final matches, him against cypher brings back memories. maloy imo, best player atm, considering his style, equal to best q3 players back in 2003-2004
I hope there will be some serious q3 competition announced very soon, else player skills will go down once again, pretty fast

maloy whos that=? better than nike cooller jibo?

asus will show

question from LaMz = maloy, he beat Cypher in an online final not long ago

best match I've seen in a long time

*matches
(who cares anyway ?not my daughter, she is pleased with her daddy the way he make her bend every evening, bed time)

4am posts ftw

night is for guns and glory, day for work and worry

Asus is not taken to serious, some players come unprepared, no mark

z4 did soem great stuff with rl in his games

I told ya. You are my favourite mother fucker (c) ...

fazz your cool

If you look into this from the outside it's quite amazing the logic being applied here: you are essentially comparing OSP to playing on a shitty monitor... and saying that's better? Absolutely fucking amazing how much you people just refuse to accept when the game is wrong.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's arQon fucking everything up by incorporating a cg_quack command that completely ruins the duck which is otherwise perfect and we should kill him and put a muzzle on the duck which will solve the quacking problem but weigh down the head of the duck making it difficult for him to do things such as swim without a series of workarounds like putting a counterweight on his tail. Still this is absolutely the best solution because the duck is perfect and it's just his environment which has been polluted over the years with stuff like clean water so he can quack better because he doesn't have one of those plastic 6 pack things around his fucking neck choking him slowly to death.

Sincerely,
CPMSwan

duck ftw!

try harder!

how can you tell if a guy is fat over the internet? while arguing, he uses food to make a point!

fatty

Confucius say when bird hit you: duck.

Chef Ramsay says: When you see duck butcher it on live tv and eat it.

WHEN YOU SEE A PUFFIN EAT ITS HEART

Ramsay says: 'It looks like King Kong's condom'

i'm a fan of your work

hahaha awesome, and so true :D

nice troll

Fazz you shoulda been called Jizz you only lasted 30 secs when quake was big.

BOOYA

...You lasted longer? WD :)

less whine more promode
stfu already

yes

I can't believe that they had different monitors. Surely if it's going to be shit let it be shit for everyone, not the select few.

considering the monitors are shitty

ey guys i went toooo the shop toooday, bought some toooools and went back too home

Maybe Angel will announce the use of OSP at this years Winter CPL!?

Forcing ppl to change their gamestyle because of hardware is still bs.
If smth is broken in the game, fix the game, and not change everything arround it.

And kinda lol that you say the final game was beautiful because that one was played on stage with better monitors where cypher was hitting close to his normal lg accs again. ;)

Read comments...

Close too his normal accurcy. Lol :)

IS BROEK

Works now, some of the posts were showing no names/flags and a load were missing, posting seemed to fix it, well me posting fixed it at least considering I'm a superstar and all.

your pluses are nothink on lan

ive said the same thing on gtv, shitty monitors are the best thing that could happen to quake3 cpma on that lan. games needed moar brain.

hah as if killsen has a brain