2003 just called, wants back its suggestions how to make the game exciting again

I believe the phone bit is also from around that time

Which makes the comment the better!

We can all agree that in terms of balance, movement, etc, that Quake 3 is the best out of all the Quakes. MOST people will agree on this, I know some of the QW and CPM'ers won't.

Let me stop you right there. Not because I think you're wrong, but because that's the exact same thing that every player of every fps ever created thinks about his game. Go to a UT99 site and people will tell you it's perfect, go to a hldm site and people will tell you it's perfect, go to a cs sight (gasp) and 1000x more people will tell you it's god's gift to humanity.

The only reason why there is even a discussion about it here on esr is that we are in the somewhat fortunate position to hoste more than one community (vq3+cpm...plus a tiny bit of qw, though they don't hang out here), so we get some controversy. But don't believe for one second that what you're feeling about your game is in any way unique, special or even objective.

In other words, the reason that most people here think that vq3 is perfect, is that most people here play vq3. Doesn't make it true though.

Well guess what? UT99 is the best UT, CS1.6 is the best CS and VQ3 is the best Quake.

No objective truth about it, it's just what most people play becase they like it.

Billions of flies like eating shit, so I presume shit is the most delicious thing to eat!

when there was a general concensus amongst worlds finest chefs that shit is the best food, well, it probably would be.

thats like letting a group of game developers decide which competitive 1v1dm game is the best. why does it have to be chefs? appeal to authority, all over shit, b

Chefs become finest chefs because people love their food.

ya, i see what youre saying. it's like representative democracy.

Monsoon in Q3, lol

what walter said, support ql...q3 is done for and xerp is gay

lol, americans. if you could bomb the shit out of software you dont like, you would

What? That was a pretty poor jab. Come on, I know you can do better.

neh. only got bombing jokes about you americans. plus, you're fat

There ya go, fat jokes are the only ones you know must be true!

isnt it?

or just don't play something for the sake of playing it and do something else if you're that unhappy with your options of two great games.

#cpmpickup

No plus whoring this time :P

wasn't my intention..

Then you get a plus for stating the truth

It was the outcome and now you'll have to live with the consequences.

yes, Liam is a channel operator of #cpmpickup.. what's your point?

Back when id released the q3 beta, everybody and their parents were playing it from day 1. They didn't wait for some 'progaming' organization to put up big paychecks, there were unofficial tournaments all over the place and the players were dying to get in. CPL announced a $100,000 tournament before Quake 3 was even released.

Nowadays, people are just not interested. Quake is a but a drop in the sea of online games. New gamers actually duck and shoot when playing dm games for the first time... it was completely the other way around back then, people would jump in CS and play it like Quake.

Therefore I don't think this QL thing is going anywhere. I'm not saying the people playing dm games are gone (well, a big percentage is), it's just that they're just so divided that it's going to take a huge effort to unify them under one game.

Not impossible though, Microsoft did it with Halo, spending gazillions of dollars. Traditional methods however (free beta, a couple of tournaments etc) are not enough anymore.

agree, quake is dead

I'll take it one step further.
Competitive gaming is dying.

Starcraft is growing.

sadly it isnt

Why not? New major leagues are popping up recently...

+ increasing viewers to streams, more new players, international recruitment for all teams, international tournaments popping up, and KESPA working with international organizers for global standardization...

read an article on teamliquid about the demise of the korean scene. major sponsors leaving, teams closing, less viewers every year.
im not too sure how serious that is, but i think its the reason why the try to internationalize (if that word exists ;)) the scene

go one step back. thats ok.

We can all agree that in terms of balance, movement, etc, that Quake 3 is the best out of all the Quakes. MOST people will agree on this, I know some of the QW and CPM'ers won't.

By most people, you mean just people who play VQ3 anyway. No need to preach to your choir.

The main reason people DON'T want to go back to Quake 3 is because it's the same game and maps we've been playing since it's release 8 years ago.

The only game that really uses new maps is Starcraft, and they generally have an older map or two in the mix. All other games are sustaining just fine by using the same maps year after year, so why do you think this is such a big issue? I agree that new maps would be fun, but they're hardly the only problem VQ3 has.

CPM helped to fix a lot of the stagnant problems in Quake 3. The biggest issue is that the game doesn't scale well to the level of skill that we've come to, so the problems you encounter with the maps are simply due to the lack of creativity that you can express through the gameplay in VQ3. I'm sure you'd get bored of a map if you were fighting it more than you were fighting your opponent. It's just not fun to run armors all the time and fire rockets/grenades around corners.

The only thing holding CPM back is the ugly shadow that VQ3 is casting over it.

I was with you until this:

"The only thing holding CPM back is the ugly shadow that VQ3 is casting over it. "

You don't think CPM could be more successful if VQ3 wasn't being treated as the standard?

not really. the reason vq3 is treated as the standard is because it is the original and has way more players. not to mention that pretty much every q3er has tried cpm at some point but few decide to stick with it. me included.

and has way more players

I'd say they're about equal on players who actually play the real game, and not instagib/excessive/etc

ye, but all those mods use vq3 physics, weaponswitch etc.

And that's mainly what I meant about it casting an ugly shadow on CPM. Many people see it as an outsider (somewhat like Natural Selection would be in HL) and they don't even get to the point where they can appreciate it or give it a fair trial.

fair trial? you either like something or you don't. and frankly, you need to like cpm A LOT since it takes a while to get the hang of new skills like bunny and fastswitch.

wat?

was los?

I mean that they don't even get into the quake universe enough to know about CPM, or get turned away from it by bitter VQ3 players.

I know the masses are dying to play cpm, too bad the bitter vq3 cunts wont let them.

Ooh, sarcasm! Denial is ugly.

oh snap..

"I'm sure you'd get bored of a map if you were fighting it more than you were fighting your opponent. It's just not fun to run armors all the time and fire rockets/grenades around corners."

it's actually pretty enjoyable to duel someone properly, employing all the elements of control and thinking that you can to try and defeat him. that's how it was for years originally, but it's like..now that the traditional game modes are failing - the traditional deathmatch standard (osp/vq3 or whatever). people are more easily persuaded to more radical options (if you call vq3 the conventional option). it's like with fascism, the only time it really was able to take control is when the country was going through some economic turmoil or whatever and as such, citizens no longer believed in the conventional politics and went to something radical. but in actuality it's already too late, there's just the original playerbase left, shame it's slowly dissolving.

it's funny because, cpm is definitely more appealing because it's much more 'what you see if what you get', fast gameplay, fast movement. in vq3 there's so many elements of a game that you can't see with the naked eye. so cpm would probably be far more popular than vq3 if there was actual fresh blood coming in to the DM genre. although the popularity of warsow could support my argument here, ridiculous amounts of cs, ut and quake players and such were playing that game. some kind of unification there. but whatever, it's time for most to let go i believe.

vq3 isn't holding anyone back, that's a ridiculous statement. the name 'quake' is revered in competitive gaming, you can't say that people haven't ever had the option to try it. i bet in most cases people have tried it and dropped it because it's not in their inherent interest. i dont believe this is a flaw of the character, merely an issue of timing.

back in 1999, q3 set a dm standard, running parallel with ut99. those interested more in a team/slower gameplay would play cs, which was really enjoyable back then for sure. however, when you fastforward to now, thanks to CPL and WCG prematurely dropping q3 back in 2002/2003, the game has been dying ever since, because it is no longer as much of a competitive standard as it once was. so all the new players, are playing the games which are growing, not dying - cs and cod. why should a new player want to involve themselves with a dying scene? they want a chance to start at ground-zero with everyone else. or at least adopt an option which has a forseeable future.

i think the quake generation is over. if people wanted to play competitive deathmatch they would play it. ql is the last hope to re-inspire hope and pro-longed life into the quake generation.

saddest thing for me is that i truly love q3 tdm, but very little point spending time on quake anymore. =(

it's funny because, cpm is definitely more appealing because it's much more 'what you see if what you get', fast gameplay, fast movement. in vq3 there's so many elements of a game that you can't see with the naked eye.

Every one of those elements is in CPM as well, there is simply more focus on fighting the player than the map.

vq3 isn't holding anyone back, that's a ridiculous statement. the name 'quake' is revered in competitive gaming, you can't say that people haven't ever had the option to try it. i bet in most cases people have tried it and dropped it because it's not in their inherent interest. i dont believe this is a flaw of the character, merely an issue of timing.

Revered? If you were to speak the name of Quake to someone who plays Halo, CS, or WoW, they'd probably laugh at you. It's only revered by the people who play it.

back in 1999, q3 set a dm standard, running parallel with ut99.

DM standards started long before Q3.

thanks to CPL and WCG prematurely dropping q3 back in 2002/2003, the game has been dying ever since, because it is no longer as much of a competitive standard as it once was.

Quake 3 has been dying since before 2002 - these events just simply helped it to die faster.

>>Every one of those elements is in CPM as well, there is simply more focus on fighting the player than the map.

That's just simply not true. CPM is much more shallow in terms of gameplay than vq3. I'll probably be hanged for saying that, but it's really true. The movement in CPM allows you to get away with doing really stupid shit (e.g. being out of position but getting in position in .5 seconds due to speed, charging opponent like a moron, etc)

>>Revered? If you were to speak the name of Quake to someone who plays Halo, CS, or WoW, they'd probably laugh at you. It's only revered by the people who play it.

I would agree with you, except q3 really IS revered in the COMPETITIVE gaming community, not necessarily the "mainstream" community.

>>DM standards started long before Q3.

Like with what? q2? lal. doom2? lal, nq MAYBE.

>>Quake 3 has been dying since before 2002 - these events just simply helped it to die faster.

Factually incorrect. There have been loads of tournaments since 2k2, where have you been?

That's just simply not true. CPM is much more shallow in terms of gameplay than vq3.

No.

The movement in CPM allows you to get away with doing really stupid shit (e.g. being out of position but getting in position in .5 seconds due to speed, charging opponent like a moron, etc)

Which puts more emphasis on both trying to get your opponent out of position, and picking fights accordingly. VQ3 is NOTHING but positioning, with no care for how you actually get the job done.

I would agree with you, except q3 really IS revered in the COMPETITIVE gaming community, not necessarily the "mainstream" community.

Except IT ISN'T. The games listed above are now the current competitive standard, and most of the players will not even know the game you are talking about.

Like with what? q2? lal. doom2? lal, nq MAYBE.

Not maybe.

Factually incorrect. There have been loads of tournaments since 2k2, where have you been?

Having a tournament is completely unrelated to the topic at hand. We're speaking about how the community and the game are dying. It has, in fact, been dying since even before 2002. Keep up, mate.

>>No.

You've played neither. I'll take mine over yours.

>>Which puts more emphasis on both trying to get your opponent out of position, and picking fights accordingly. VQ3 is NOTHING but positioning, with no care for how you actually get the job done.

Uh, no. It means you get away with doing stupid shit. VQ3 also isn't ONLY about positioning. If you actually played the game you'd know that though.

>>Except IT ISN'T. The games listed above are now the current competitive standard, and most of the players will not even know the game you are talking about.

I guess I don't consider "halo" a true competitive game, and was more talking about the PC gaming market rather than the consoles. CS players generally do agree that for DM q3 is a great game. WoW players.... well.... dunno what to say meight.

>>Not maybe.

eh, by what definition? The lack of players?

>>Having a tournament is completely unrelated to the topic at hand. We're speaking about how the community and the game are dying. It has, in fact, been dying since even before 2002. Keep up, mate.

What the fuck is your definition of dying then? There have been players who started playing after 2k2. What fucking metric are you going to use? You can't use terms that you haven't defined meight.

You've played neither. I'll take mine over yours.

If a tree falls in a forest, and nobody is around to hear it, are you still wrong?

Uh, no. It means you get away with doing stupid shit. VQ3 also isn't ONLY about positioning. If you actually played the game you'd know that though.

It's like listening to the WoW nerds who try to make the game seem like rocket science when it isn't. It's cool to be a scene kid, I guess.

I guess I don't consider "halo" a true competitive game, and was more talking about the PC gaming market rather than the consoles. CS players generally do agree that for DM q3 is a great game. WoW players.... well.... dunno what to say meight.

So you just listed off the only real games (aside from maybe Starcraft and Warcraft, but that only strengthens my point) that are played competitively, and don't give two shits or respect Quake at all. Again, you're trying to be scene so hard. You guys talk about the game more than you play it, and you make it out to be this big deal. It's not. The reason you think timing armors and hitting a target is so difficult and deep is because you're so horribly bad at the game.

eh, by what definition? The lack of players?

DM standards started with NQ/QW.

What the fuck is your definition of dying then? There have been players who started playing after 2k2. What fucking metric are you going to use? You can't use terms that you haven't defined meight.

Look at any other game next to Q3 in terms of activity, growth, and popularity. Q3 started losing all these things before 2002, but it seems either people forget how Q3 was doing, or simply weren't around. 2002 was only as big as it seemed because there was so much emphasis on trying to make it work by tournament organizers and players. It didn't - the game spiraled down into what we have left.

Since you're incapable of stating anything and then backing it up with facts, this argument is stupid. When you decide to actually say something, and then explain why you're right besides "ZOMG I SAID IT AND YOU DISAGREED SO YOU'RE WRONG", this conversation is over. Cheers mate, have a great life.

It's okay - it's not like you had any sort of argument or facts anyway. Now is a good time for you to duck out.

Wut? I actually did.

Let's see, I said that CPMs movement made the game shallow. Your response? "No." wtf kind of response is that? You don't know what you're talking about as you've never actually played quake3 in your life, and yet you think you can tell me how both of the games are played. Please kid, at least know a bit about what you're talking about before you open your mouth.

Hmm? I thought you were leaving. How can you play Q3 if you can't even leave correctly?

Another incomprehensible post by a moron. Keep 'em coming chap!

You're still here.

Nope. I'm a figment of your imagination. You should quit talking to yourself.

you must be new here if you still reply to vedic.

Except your not new. That means you are stupid. dont feed trolls yo

Still here.

No you are.

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1643083#pid1643083

care?

You sure do.

nope.

so much.

not at all.

So, by "not at all", you're really trying to say "I'm raged."

Hmm, no. Not raged. Laughing at idiots, but not raged.

It bugs you so much that you didn't leave when you said you would.

Doesn't bug me. I like bugging you.

You should try to find a way to do it without getting raged.

Who's raged?

C-c-c-c-ombo breaker.

You're proper raged.

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Maybe you should look it up.

Whoooosh

The sound between your ears?

This whole thread going over your head.

First you got served, and now you're getting trolled. You lost after you said you'd leave.

tbh i'm bored.

You could be playing Quake, but you'd rather prove me right?

I am playing quake. I actually just got done. Nice try though!

You stopped playing just so I could make fun of you. How sweet.

Merry christmas Vedic. May this day be full of peace and love.

Your theistic holiday holds no water here.

I'm sorry for your sad existence. You cannot even enjoy a day of peace and love.

Pity party is that way -->

Can I sit next to your family? I really want to show my pity for you with them.

Sure thing - they're on the other side of the country.

I didn't realize you were that fat that I could sit so far away from you.

Fat, hmm? While I'm mocking your lame attempt at a joke, I'm sporting 18 BMI - how about you?

If someone made a new mode which was basically cpma, but 2x the movement speed... would it instantly mean it is better?

If this mod existed, those who played it could come complain about how ghey cpma is for being easy and slow in comparison :)

Hmmm, think I'll chart this on the universal chart of love and fear...

love <----------promode-------------------------------------> fear

Insightful

CPM isn't just about speed. The speed merely helps to widen the gap that has been closed by the rapidly growing accuracies.

Why don't you come play a game. Then maybe you can have an opinion.

Busy playing a game with players.

That was NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT funny. Not.

It's not - it's sad.

correct. It's sad.

Hey, we can teach you after all.

Yeah. It took me a while to realize how sad your face is. I get it now though.

Hrm, maybe not. Stay in school - it'll do you good.

Am in school. Not in mum's basement. That's much nicer.

Speaking of mum's, how's yours? Tell her I'm sorry for not calling back.

I have two dads. =X

epic reveal to win the argument.

That explains a lot, actually.

Like how you got AIDS?

I got aided by your mother last night, not AIDS. You should really listen more closely through that wall while we're fucking.

Well, as much as you'd like to pretend he's a chick, he's still a dude. Whatever gets you off, though!

Just cause your mommy wears a strapon with your daddy doesn't make her a daddy too you know.

Denial is ugly. First you admit it, now you're trying to get out of it!

Come out of the closet.

Only if you come out first sweet heart.

I knew it!

Knew what?

Try to keep up, mate.

I am keeping up, but retard logic always confuses me.

Don't worry, there's a cure.

You're going to not be retarded?

Then again, maybe you're a special case...

I guess in retard bizzar-o logic, that makes sense.

Guess so.

Well, I think that you've missed one important point about Quake Live. ID software is, of course, making a game for competitive players. Most of the valuable feedback that they get is from people who did play Quake earlier and have some kind of experience in DM-type games. But, casual players are far more important to ID Software than the hardcore community, as it is them that will generate most of the profit. So, only if they make a good game that will be played by many average blokes, they will achieve a success that they are really aiming for.

And that is also the most important factor for most tournament organisers (not only ESWC and 2-3 additional tournaments a year). How many people play the game. Pure numbers really matter. So, if ID will make a game that casual players like, only then we, again, might see Quake competing head to head with CS , WC3, and COD for slots at the biggest competitions. And I bet that ID will do everything that they can to make it the best experience possible for a casual gamer because it's simply what matters most also for them.

So, there's still quite a chance :)

cpma killed quake, go QL.

QL has still some probs, but im beginning to feel the game.
Its like a new shoe, wear it and it fits better every day. ;)

Currently the players are another big problem,
random disconnects, joining a game mid time making it 3on4, etc.

if anything CPMA helped resurrect Q3

Quake 3 almost died in South Africa, from about 120 players to about 20 after the change to cpma.
Reason: OSP = more fun

i think the exact opposite happened in the rest of the world though.

you think way wrong :(

nope, he's right. believe it or not, people actually like being able to play with 60-70 ping after years and years of ping whoreing caused by terrible netcode

saved the internet q3, killed the lan q3.

We can all agree that in terms of balance, movement, etc, that Quake 3 is the best out of all the Quakes.

far from it. i play more VQ3 than anything else these days and i love it but i still stand by CPM having better weapon balance and movement options. even CQ3 does it better than VQ3.

whether it be Q3 or QL you'll still be fucking terrible, so you may as well just kill yourself to save us from more of your retarded journals

have a good day

I think either people misunderstood what I was saying, or maybe I just worded it improperly.

My point was that we can all agree that if a competitive game were to be made, it should be made using the Quake 3 engine. Sure, the UT99'ers will think their engine is the best, and so will the HL2DM'ers, but there's always going to be conflict.

Interesting to see the push for QL though. So you guys rather play QL then Q3 with new maps?

PMX.

What's happening with that?

It's being developed.

hopefully not shite maps and air control :<

Unlucky, guess you'll have to stick with QL.

I'll stick with what I enjoy thanks.

not a fucking sheep like most idiots.

Give us something concrete then, cock tease :P

that acid map fucks up my eyes and req is huuuuge. monsoon is aaight.

If you're "suffering" from a video game then you don't have to play it, simple as that.

QL > Q3.

Xerp and the lg ruined q3. Atleast people are forced to use nerfed weapons in QL.

The RL is QL is also the most dominant weapon again... makes it more like QW - which imo - is how it should be.

CQ3 kthxbye. :>

is shit

better than CPMA VQ3

breaks everything good about VQ3

makes flaws more obvious

yet them flaws lead to beneficial things

you're just a sheep anyway baaaaaaaaah baaaaaaah

and your an idiot cos thats a goat and not a sheep....

admins rule nowadays. lets push the envelope



"I can flyyy"

;/

mummy not give u enough attention?

fake

we totally buy that

MORAN.

why be mean?

WHY?!

I don't have a problem with eating babies and fucking goats but you didn't have to post pics of black people doing it you racist cunt.

So we can have goat fucking but not this?

yeah all-hitscan gameplay ftw, wouldnt want that broken

dunno about that

the rail and lg are useless in ca that seems to be the only busy 'get a game instantly' game.

i know todays aim standerds cry for some nerfing but still the splash on the rl is mental just now

Useless? I rape ca with lg and rail ;o

why should one gun be dominant? i really don't understand that. some of the guns in qw could be removed from the maps and there wouldn't even be the slightest difference in the way the maps are played. every gun should have a specific offensive purpose.

Neither shaft nor rl is dominant in QW :D, the skilled combined use of both will beat either one.

can someone please explain to me what's this xerp thing? I haven't played since the OSP days.

It makes people hit where they aim

no that's the netcode.
xerp makes you able to aim behind the models instead of right on them.

Most of the time you will be aiming at the model and the feeling of aiming behind comes from the server-side hit tone (rather than client predicted), by the time you hear that the enemy will have moved so it feels like the shot was behind them.

Couldnt you guys implement a prediction of the weapon gfx like q4max has? So that the rail beam appears right when you fire? (im only talking about the gfx not about the hitsound)

It already does that.

hmm maybe I didn't explain myself correctly, I'll try again:
q4max draws the rail beam right when you fire, regardless of your ping or what the server does. CPMA doesn't draw it instantly but seems to wait for the confirmation from the server (that the railgun has been fired), though the weapon sound is played immediately.
I think it would be nice if cpma drew the rail beam also instantly (predict it) so the rail beam appears right when you fire and when you crosshair is on the model.

You can test that easily if you go on a server with 100+ ping and fire the railgun. Also, sometimes there is no beam drawn at all in CMPA (happens here quite rarely though), I assume that happens if the packets with the shot information got lost somewhere between server and client.

or is it possible that the prediction is disabled by some cvars here?

but it hits when aiming behind, still.

With time nudge and xerp?

laghax -1 and xerp 1

I'd be interested to know what maps Mojo ended up picking for the CPL tour that never happened.

Just wait for severity.

QL should be CPM tbh.

We can all agree that in terms of sheer retardation, full of shittedness, etc, that Gillz is the dumbest out of all the ESR idiots.

/fixed

The new iD maps are koOL.

Is koOma amused?

koOma is amused.

I'd say go with whatever they'll be playing in europe ;)

reqtourney1 is really nice
mainly a cpm map, but it's suitable in cq3
using vq3 decrease too much the map flow (a lot of ramp-jumps)

acid3dm6 can be played only in cpm
because some areas needs double-jumps to be reached

monsoon shoulb be tweaked in some parts, but it's nice too

Well, even with totally new fresh maps VQ3/CPM wont attract neither new players nor 'old' ones.

Q3's multiplayer is designed with no care of beginners (was pretty ok in 1999, but not in 2009) - matchmaking and other attempts to make the game more appealing to newcomers will fail miserably anyway, not because of bad implementation but rather because of outdated game mechanics.

Today everybody can play amazing online games without being defeated over and over again.

It doesn't mean that only plain and simple games with no depth turn to have public recognition - rather more accessible ones, but with no impact on depth and additional features for experienced players.

On the other hand, 'oldies' will doubtly play new maps and mods because of conservatism which is a must for their age (30s probably, midlife crisis, etc.)

Personally I find RTSs and RPGs (+ MMOs) far more complex to learn and to master than every installment of Quake series - lots of stuff to control and such. But look at this...

What quake did you 'master' ??? :DDDDDDD

Another delusional type like mash/wata.

I have mastered none, but that's not that really necessary just to estimate and compare tactical depths of both genres.

u

Shut up faggot.

Last time I saw you in action was at the probably now extinct ninemil server playing a 2vs2 on ztn with some buddy of yours.

a) The opposing team consisted of spyteman & dird (!!!)

b) You had iirc something like 10 frags and a negative net of 30+ or so

:DDDDDDDDDD

well, m8. you should look at the #cpmpickup servers more often. but usually my team carries me there, too. :(
also skint ragequitted that game after 5mins.

so wat? I'm super awesome!!!!

I have to question the validity of how low WC3 is on that list with how big it is in China. I guess maybe they all use pirated copies. =X

Suffer with Gillz and Prolong the BULLSHIT

neither has 22 camera angles with hotkeys, so i'd say it's pointless

PMX!

Without ztn, QL will fail.

I'd like to see a 1v1 mod for mirrors edge :), would be cool to 1v1 in that .

i would like too see ql become Q4LODWEKDODITMOTSWACNTMHP

VQ3 is the wrong choice no matter what.

QL is a FAR better game in almost every way (despite introducing a few new stupidities of its own), and actually has a chance at growing, which VQ3 hasn't been since 2001. The two big drawbacks are no new maps, which should hardly be an issue for a bunch of people that haven't played a "new" map since Hub (in, again, 2001), and the lack of "competition support", i.e. CPMA/OSP features, which id seem be getting to now.

Even if you want to stick with the "current" community, VQ3 STILL isn't the answer: it's shit, and all but the most moronic fanboys realised years ago that the only thing keeping it from being even more of an embarrassment than it already is are the extremely skilled players, who'd produce better games ANYWAY in QL, or CQ3, or CPM, or pretty much anything, because all of the alternatives are better games than VQ3 in the first place.

And as far as this goes:

> The main reason people DON'T want to go back to Quake 3 is because it's the same game and maps we've been playing since it's release

That's your (pl) own stupid fault. If VQ3'ers weren't such inbred sheep, maybe they'd have actually played new maps sometime in the last 8 years, and the game would be a lot less stagnant even if the gamePLAY was still as stale as ever.

so is VQ3 bad or not?

you seem to change your mind in every single post.

you fail @ trolling. l2r

I'm not trolling

every post you make your opinion differs about VQ3... that is all

as for the maps, it would be nice if you stopped playing that card, regardless of how dynamic morons see a map, they've mostly still played the same amount of maps

1a/3a/22/24/15
ztn/dm6/t4/t2/dm13/hub

if CPM was fortunate to have the same amount of large competition that VQ3 has had over the years and the same set of top skilled players then it would have experienced a stale map pool along with people not favorable towards change, people like consistency when it comes to serious competition.

Yes, even the CPM community isn't as good at adopting new maps as it should be, but it's laughable to try and make them out as being as bad as VQ3ers.

Aside from continuing to switch to new DM maps for years longer (15 is from 2003, 22 and 24 are from 2004), there's a huge difference between "playing the 5 BEST maps so far" and "playing the 5 FIRST maps". The fact that both are groups OF 5 maps doesn't make them the same, and it's even more blatant in TDM where we're playing 4/5a/18/21/26 but the sheep are still pathetically trying to justify using *DM6* for TDM because the fear of new maps is so comical.

If VQ3 was fortunate [enough] to have [had] the same amount of large competition that SC has had over the years and the same set of top skilled players then [maybe] it would have experienced a dynamic map pool.

"liking consistency" is a euphemism for "inbred, stale, stagnant, and cowardly". I'm not saying we don't have some degree of that too, and more of it than I'd like, but we by definition have less of it; and *even QL* can't have more, because you can't get lower than rock bottom.

I kind of agree with most things that you say and am quite grateful that you spitefully continued OSP in your own fashion and tacitly supported VQ3 by making CPMA CPL ready in 06 but your arguments are reminding me of the supposed 'status quo' ideal of the VQ3 community you've been railing against for almost the last decade. We're all 'afraid' to try something new because we're all still playing q3. Or maybe it's just as subjective as everything else in this world and people, for the most part, actually play what they prefer.

No - there are some key aspects you're missing. Trying Q4 and then going back to Q3 because Q4 was so awful is genuinely "we prefer this", and that doesn't bother me in the slighest.

There are two negative groups of VQ3'ers, the sheep and the cowards. The people who genuinely think the game is without flaw are idiots, but at least they're "honest" idiots - they've found their niche and they're happy in it, more power to them. They're a TINY minority though.

What annoys me about the sheep, and doubtless always will, is the thing that MAKES them sheep - their lack of personal impetus. They never moved on, or even looked to see what else was out there, *until someone else told them to*, and when they did and that failed, they just went back to where they'd been, completely blinkered, and settled back into their warm familiar holes. They didn't have the balls to actually find the change themselves, they STILL don't years later - the brand matters more to them than the game, and that's what I think is so pathetic about them.

Anyway, this is too long a topic for today (and fairly pointless since as usual most of what I say will be misinterpreted, unintentionally or otherwise :P). The important thing is that there aren't just "VQ3ers in general", there are multiple subgroups with different reasons FOR being VQ3ers, and I think what you'll see very clearly 6 months or whatever from now when QL finally hits its stride is that most of them were VQ3ers for the basest of reasons. And even though I think they're pathetic, I'll STILL be happy that they're playing QL rather than VQ3, because it's simply, unequivocally, a better game, and that's all that matters to me - it's just a shame that it won't be the BEST game they could be playing on the Q3 engine.

just when you thought this thread was dead.. BOOM

That's just gas escaping, it is dead.

Try Street Fighter 4 for the PC.

Will soon exceed 3 million users, big tourneys like Evo/Devastation/Super Vs Battle, games are over in a minute or two, tons of characters to suit your style of play.

And plenty of great players.

for the pc, plz.

No combined, but given the PC version is the most accessible and does not require any live accounts, I think this game will take off big time. Its only been out 24 hours!

The game plays the same across all 3 formats and probably has better netcode on pc. So even if you train on pc, you can still attend arcade, 360/ps3 tourneys and do well.

Plus 360 pads and sticks work on the PC, so I hope the PC version becomes the one people move to as its the most universal IMO.

There should be public executions for bumping dead threads..

Im on a window, using a scope aimed directly to your girlfriend's tits. Masturbation happens at the same time.

It's always fun to read what our ancestors wrote some years ago...