you can play instagib and whatnot

misleading title tbh.

it's an accurate description

posted at 3:44 am, didn't make sense at the time D:

just.. download.. it

gotta say warsow ictf was probably the best casual multiplayer experience i had.

weak & strong ammo.

do not approve. :(

always wondered why people did not like it, sounds kinda interesting to me (never played much wsw duel though)

Because the line between " weak ammo is useless " and " strong ammo is useless " is so thin I'm not even sure they have found it.

Download and try it, like CPM its much more demanding in raw combat skill, tactics and movement than Quake Live is so you will meet a steeper learning curve in Warsow, i played it some years ago, but decided to stay with CPM since i believe that's a better game.

warsow (and cpm) not more demandin in raw combat skill than q3, that is for sure.

They definitely are.

FEELINGS

It's actually really good nowadays. As light said, it's closer to cpm/qw than to quakelive ( movements, fast weapon switch ).
Dunno where you're from but if you don't mind getting your ass handed off to your mom you won't have trouble finding games.

it's superfast :s

It does not play like QL, not even a bit...

Its much more difficult in terms of fighting/movement you are moving all the time with 600+ up (in duel 700-800 is pretty decent). It has fast weapon-switch which makes combos more effective (Laser Gun+Electro Beam, Rocket Launcher+Electro Beam, Plasma Gun+Electro Beam aso.). The weapons behave different making the Rocket Launcher much more usefull than anything else and in general forming the terrific three combination known from CPMA (RL, LG, EB).

Then in basewsw the duel-part is more about knowing the map and how you can take shots. The armors are worth shit in basewsw and the player knowing the map best will mostly end up runing all the items and dominating the loosing-player (that's why Lo wins against almost all EU players while having 150 ping, he knows all the maps in and out).
The maps are much smaller and combat focused than in QL, in combination with the insane movement you have in W§W the game turns into a giant frag-fest with scores normaly settled somewhere in the range of 10-25.

The scene is awfuly small, because of that you almost have no chance to get fair games (if you play against active duelers and want to improve get ready to get raped 30:-X in your first 10-20 games, after you will get some frags but still loose by a lot).

Promod fixes the issues with weapons/armors a bit but the main problem is still the movement+maps combination.

But apart from that War§ow is an amazing game that creates much more action and fun than QL ever could.

Fucking love it. Too bad the community is that small

Dedicated Warsow player here.

Gameplay is something that is very much put in your hands. The way you experience some gametypes is not entirely reliant on the movement system.
For example: There's 2 movement systems;
(cg_OldMovement 0)NewMovement: Similar to Painkiller (+fwd hop for acceleration) but with deceleration if you turn too fast (and an auto accel cap at 900ups). This is the default movement system and very newbie friendly but at the same time you don't need to go faster.
(cg_OldMovement 1)OldMovement: Similar to CPM/qw (strafe accel, bunnyhopping) but with deceleration for fast turns if directionals are pressed. This is the speedfreak's movement and the only way to experience Race IMO.
The way you can play maps (Duel in particular) varies very much. You can slow it down so much if you look at what Warsow movement has to offer. This is accompanied by the design of the maps. If you have 2 people going at crazy speeds the match will end up in a highscoring fast-paced game but there's no stopping someone who plays slow and is clever enough to counter these players (faster = more patterned) but then again it's not just that one-sided.
You can win a match without knowing how to move over 600+ UPS steadily in a tiny duel map but personally I find more pleasure in moving fast (inb4 thats what she said)
The strong ammo also adds a mix to the experience and a lot of importance in positioning. And also a new hurdle to get over when we look at the LG which is the only weapon that acts differently (weak = flaccid beam, strong = straight beam)

I see you're from NA. The European community is very predominant in #warsow, but you can find the NA community (which is smaller) at #warsow.na and find a duel if you ask on the right times (idk cause of timezones) and there's also the weekly KOTH (coverage by TastyCast biweekly) every Saturday by the NA community.
There's lots of on-and-off moments for many players and I guess that's to blame on the size of the community. NA lost their best player in Lo (imo) not too long ago but there's plenty of capable people who can give you some internal lashes.

To be honest you'd be much closer if you were to compare Warsow to CPM and QW. But you'd still be very far off. Just like comparing any of those games to QL. The special button, the different feel to rockets, ammo system, movement, map design.
Just download the game and give it a try on the weekend (join a KOTH?!)

Warsow is my game of choice and I prefer the Race gamemode overall but I can find fun in the other gametypes by playing my own way. It's sad that the community is so small but I can still have loads of fun in this game and run into plenty of challenges.

Sorry for the awful paragraphing. I don't pay as much attention to improving it as I should be.

nothing beats qw

this

Not this.

QW is different from W§W and W§W is different from QL and so on. It's really a matter of opinion.

I really like the QW movement (well stairjumping should be possible imo) but I find it extremly boring due to the mostly useless weapons (RL/LG rapes everything else) and the gfx are, well just old.

CPMA is by far my favorite game (I know it's only a mod for Q3 but it changes the gameplay to such an ammount that it could be concidered a stand-alone game) from the Quake-Series but the community is too dead, if there would be more activity I would switch instantly and try to get better at it. Same goes for Painkiller that I would have liked to play competetively but it's dead by now.

I've never played Quake 2 but I heard that it is much more tactical than any other Quake (because of the "slow" gameplay).

Quake 3 produced some of the best games in Quake History but I never played it with vq3 physics (will do it this summer at a local lan).

When Quake 4 was the game of choice i was not interested in eSports so I left that one out completely but it has a nice GFX-Style and a promising movement system.

Quake Live is my main-game atm and I'm really trying to get better at it while waiting for DooM 4 to really focus on duel if it will have a 1vs1 multiplayer.

I played War§ow for quite some time but there are some "features" (or bugs) that piss me off so I don't play it that often anymore.

I did not play Doom I-3 (shame on me) in multiplayer but think that they still have a "big" fan-base (well Doom 3 not really) and are really chalenging in 1vs1.

nothing beats qw


also: you complain about graphics, wtf.

I'm absolutely not a GFX-Junkie but QW is too old even for my eyes (had the same problem with CS 1.6 back in 2007 that's why I switched to CS:S).

As I said it's only a matter of opinion nothing is perfect and QW has its flaws too.

yes, you play games to watch silly graphics, understood. please go elsewhere we care about gameplay here.

Dude you are so pathetic, I allready said that QWs main flaw is that RL/LG rocks everyting and aside from GL most weapons are barely used in duel, but since you only can focus on one sentence at a time no problem go on doing it and writing some bs.

With regards to the graphics, wtf plays with the standard client? All modern clients have pretty nice graphics. (Which you can then proceed to switch off)

I mapped for Warsow a few years ago (mostly CA because that's all we played in NA at the time) and it can be a lot of fun, but it really is apples and oranges when compared to Quake. The movement is the biggest difference, and if you're dueling the weak/strong ammo system is kind of a pain but it doesn't detract much from it. You just have to plan your attacks more and take into account that not only do you need the weapon itself, but the strongest ammo for it as well.

cpm + gay = wsw

Might have been like that during acidwdm2 times, but now the game has changed hugely in terms of GFX. Look at crisis new map "Deepest Underground" or the new version of wdm5.

http://padpork.warsow-esport.net/b/work/crizi...promo1.jpg

http://www.spiralarchitect.net/basewsw/screen...wdm5-a.jpg

... why would you assume that he was talking about graphics?

hes never heard of gameplay

Explain what could be "Gay" in W§Ws gameplay beside dash/walljump and ammo-system???

dash/walljump and ammo system
and no skimming
im sure i could think of a lot more...

besides, thats not even the point of my post. he talks about wsw being bad, and you defend it with "it has nice gfx"?

The over the top cartoony look and ammo system kinda ruins it for competitive gaming

Great concept, flawed implementation (imho)

I got pretty hooked with versions .1 and .15 but then it was like lots of changes with each update, changes that in my experience where detrimental for enjoying it.

That said its without doubt the best community made deathmatch fps.

Warsow is a lot of fun but the scene is totally shit and that's what kills it every new version :)

The developers are complete idiots, I'll give you that, but I still think at its core Warsow is a good game. You just can't make direct comparisons between Quake and all it's different forms and shades and Warsow. It's just a different kind of game. It's just a different mentality the same way you can't say TDM is "better" than duel or something. Just a different animal altogether.

Replace "Warsow" with "Quake Live" in your post. :D

warsow is good game, but it has not the quakebrand on it and has no commercial marketing, that is why it fails.
From gameplay perspective it could be a game from the quakeseries, obviously the creators were inspired by the game quake.
It has many good concepts, it's much leaned towards cpma.
though I don't think the way the wandjump works is good, it feels not natural ... also there could be some more aircontrol .. but all in all it's a very good game, from gameplay perspective even better than ql (newb-machineguns, n00b-movement, newbie-railgun) ...
and I think they even have something like quake-tv, something that the ql community is requesting for years ...
but as already said no marketing, no vibes going out at the moment,
but I wouldn't call it dead yet, it might still have some chances to get big ...

They were not inspired by Quake they started War§ow because they did not like the dirrection CPMA was taking (atleast that's what I know about the roots of W§W).

Ammo system ruins it.

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2069473#pid2069473

I put 30 hours or so into wsw when the bomb mode was introduced. Thought it was great fun and will surely have a look at it again when some newer version comes out.

I played it for fun 4 years ago (dunno what version it was..)
game was fun, realy fun! Worst thing is ammo system and a bit to fast weapon switch (a little to fast).

Absolute plus is the cartoon look the game has, also the movement is great, takes some skill to master. I wasn't happy with the weak/strong ammo system and the fast weapon switching.

Feelings for another game beside QL? Srsly no emo here.

QL player here, former quakeworld player.

The biggest problem with Warsow is that the community size is extremely small. It's almost impossible to find games in your area, and you are even expected to go into irc to ask people for games if you actually want to play against someone.

Other than that I find it at least a reasonable game, certainly visually interesting with enjoyable movement. I don't personally like the dual ammo business, but I guess I could get used to it.

I prefer Quake Live.

You are US-Player right? Then you are a bit "fucked". In EU you can almost always get a nice pub game starting from 14:00 CET and in the evenings you will allways find a game. USA War§ow is really dead imo (even less players than EU and in eu you only have ~40 active duelers).

i dont like warsow itself, but im envious of the development etc.

a lot of work is put into it, and it gets better with each update (imo). the only thing that keeps me away from it is that its qfusioun, not tech3. i really dont like the other quake physics or engines. if it was made from tech3, with the q3/cpm physics, and then everything layered on top, i would be all over it.

the most annoying part of the physics is no skimming. i run into walls all the time because i cant skim them. pisses me off so much.

Speaking as a former dev of warsow, most of them are complete idiots who hardly play the game and hardly think through their decisions beyond "oh lets be different just because". The updates have improved some things, and crippled others much to the dismay of the community that really tries hard to support the decisions the development team makes. They don't seem to have any real "direction" for the game to go, and since it has failed to be a high level duel centered game, they're trying to change it again.

I worked on the development team as a mapper for a while, but those guys felt it was more important to watch the world cup than fix anything to do with the game.

As I said before, it's a great game at it's core, but the development team has no idea what it's doing and that's crippling the growth of the game.

can't be any worse than we're witnessing in respects to the quake live development team.

well ive only played it lightly, but its gotten so many improvements, additions, and upgrades, i cant help but feel jealous. im guessing that if i played it heavily i would hate the wsw devs as much as i hate teh ql devs, but as a light player, i dont really see teh "flaws" (although the game itself is flawed imo because its not tech3).

I worked on the development team as a mapper for a while, but those guys felt it was more important to watch the world cup than fix anything to do with the game.

those jerks, watchingsome random football worlcup instead of working on thier own free game

but for observers, knowing a development team isn't listening to its userbase, it's enough to turn them off on the game. That said, the warsow community is much less divided than the one in quake live. And that can easily be contributed to the standard/premium/pro subscriptions which, as you guessed it, has divided the community into 3.

1) standard users:
-don't want to pay
-don't see the value in prem/pro subs
-casual players, perhaps not even dedicated to the quake series

2) premium users:
-just made an account on ql and have no idea...
-didn't frequent esr,ql forum or the internetz and didn't know...

3) pro users:
-consist of the most dedicated players (pro players/clan leaders)
-look down on standard users

so, Warsaw seems to be a viable substitute to ql, perhaps even better than returning to q3 or q43a (hi port) since the future of those latter 2 games are just as much in question, despite any improvements we may have seen in them over the years.

IMO warsow has a lot more promise than ql at this point in time.

erm ok

what does your reply have to do with my post?

Well, i'm not really an 'atheist' per se, i'm just non-religious. It's amazing to me how practically everyone on the planet doesn't understand the difference.

Well, the reason that bugged me was that I was waiting for some kind of order to do ANYTHING for the game, so I would sit in IRC asking "can I help? What do you want me to do?" and got nothing but people chattering about Brazil vs whoever. I could have easily done something, but they just sat on their hands. It's not that I'm faulting them for enjoying football, but there was stuff that I was very eager to get done, as were other members of the team, and the top guys just didn't do anything.

okay now that sounds lame indeed

it's always been a crucial point in game development, what to do with canadians during world cups?

The world cup is more important than wsw.

I think you did enough after bipbeta2...

i prefer cpm but wsw is okay i guess

cpm is simply better in every single aspect

its definately worth a go, but it has some ideas *just* to be different it seems.

I'd rather see a game which has less gimmicks instead of more.

Less items, less keybinds, less movement options. But what you do have, make it powerful.

eg you can combine weapons -
mg + sg
gl + rl
pg + lg
rg on its own

Then you just have 4 buttons for guns and a firing mode button, ammo becomes more important. There is still complexity, but the game itself is more basic and easier to get to grips with.

For movement you can make it so holding down jump when in the air gives you air control, else it does not. Things like that - efficiency with buttons. Pretty much anything which doesn't require the use of an extra button is cool. Like double jumps, ramp jumps, crouch slides etc.

I really don't like the idea of adding extra buttons or ammo, seeing as quake already requires about 15 or so buttons and has enough ammo types already.

I don't think those ideas are the best, but they are different from quake without having to add too much or make it more complicated. If something was going to pull me away from quake it would definately be a game which is less (or just as, but definately not more) complex at the way it functions (its core), but just as complex (or perhaps more so) in its gameplay and tactics etc. in the end.

I think you're better off playing UT or Painkiller by the looks of it.

Suggesting UT has to be a joke :D I think those games are just a quake rip off with gimmicks added to make it look like its not. But they are, and they don't do it half as well. I think they're an ok series of games, but nothing compared to quake imo, and its pretty much because of the gimmicks and slow movement.

One thing I thought was good was where you can do the combo with the shock rifle. I don't like how its implemented with the second fire button though, I think it'd be nicer if it charged up the plasma ball by holding down fire for 2 secs or something, but if you release fire before that 2 seconds it will just fire the normal 'rail' shot.

Painkiller I haven't tried much, I think I'd rather play qw, but I don't really like the weap balance.

Anyway they're all dead now and we're left with QL if we want to play a fast paced fps with a community larger than a handful of people.

I don't want to play a game which has no community, because it makes the game boring. Even though I may prefer cpma or quake 4 over QL, the fact is that for me those games are far worse with little to no community.

The original Unreal came out 2 years after Quake, and was different enough to not be deemed a "ripoff". UT99 came out 1 month before Q3, and won out in features, which the Quake community had to do themselves with mods. The Unreal franchise still continues to outsell the Quake franchise.

The playerbase for Quake has to be bigger than Unreal though right?

In 2005

Top Game Servers By Players
1. Half Life
37458 servers, 67831 players
2. Half Life 2
9928 servers, 23033 players
3. Unreal Tournament 2004
2939 servers, 6193 players
4. Call of Duty
6832 servers, 5470 players
5. Americas Army: Special Forces
1986 servers, 3583 players
6. Quake 3: Arena
2368 servers, 2532 players
7. Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory
2210 servers, 2515 players
8. Neverwinter Nights
1293 servers, 2384 players
9. Soldier of Fortune 2
1571 servers, 2156 players
10. Battlefield 1942
2491 servers, 1990 players

Unreal had 3 times as many players and servers as q3 had.

Source:
http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/archive/t-378052-p-2.html

So no, the playerbase for quake is not larger than UT even today.

also:

""I say go with UT 2004. You can find populated Onslaught servers and Invasion Monster Hunt RPG servers. People still play UT99, too, but most of the populated servers have mods and you'll find very little regular weapons capture-the-flag (which was the flagship game of UT99)."" - Whippersnapper
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1630802

Also give Nexuiz a try, it has similar features seen in quake and UT.
http://alientrap.org/nexuiz/

Nexuiz Space CTF video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKyxzjGpNZk

Nexuiz is pretty much dead since the lead dev went " lal let's licence all the shit other people coded to some company ".
check Xonotic instead.

http://openarena.ws/

nexuiz still has the players though and most servers wont be moved to xonotic before the 1.0 release. But idd, xonotic gonna rock. 1on1/TDM/FFA/FT/CA/Defrag(including defrag maps and physics if you like) + fast paced gameplay + a great instagib+hook community + beautiful graphics + ability to import quake3 maps :) And openarena really is a crap version of quake 3 lol. Doesn't even come close to nexuiz or xonotic.

Dunno, I wanted to try xonotic but a 1gig dl for an alpha + terrible menus kinda meh'd me.

dude 1gb? thats 5min and i live in poland

15minutes here but for an alpha it felt fucking huge.

have u tried it? is it fun?

that's when I bumped into the gruesome menu, saw the stock hud and gave up, hoping they'd actually do something that would take less space on the screen cause back then ( dunno if they changed anything ) it reminded me of those mid 90's fps that were trying to save some cpu by forcing viewsize 50 with a MASSIVE hud.

but nexuiz always left me pretty meh so I didn't have much motivation.

yeah i just tested it and first thing that i didnt like was hud + movement feels really weird :<

they are all crap, Q43A is crafted to my style, no1 elses

the bullshit community can make new maps and models now Q4 works and playable, with access to alcoholic pub servers

u can't compare UT2004 with q3

compare q3 with ut99 that came out about the same period

I have to say you are and have been one of the biggest stubborn 'anti-quake3' idiots on here, there is no doubt about it. Besides this i havent seen u do anything or contribute towards the state of the game, scene, or discussion of such things here at all. UT99 may have won out on features, and is indeed a good game, and pretty much the only legit game in the UT* series, but it still did not win out in gameplay (oh u had to leave that one out in ur post, didnt you!).

Q3s gameplay has balance we've yet to see matched in any other "DM" game since. And by q3 i mean baseq3/osp, not xerp garbage physics CPMA (which in fact, i've been told by ppl who arent regular q3ers feels sluggish and shitty, and like UT!), or QL which is a slight improvement over CPMA (but based itself off of the shitty mod). Not that it cant be improved on, it certainly can be, its just that the attempts we've seen so far at doing so haven't, or have been tried mainly by idiots who dont have a clue on what makes it great or how exactly to improve upon it. Usually whats happened when someones tried tinkering with this formula is they've come up with a shitty game, or something thats just not up to par (ql is a good example of this).

Before this balance was struck, qw was probably the best game. Now the best game is certainly debatable. Just because ql is 'older' (3~ years, /rollseyes) and has bunnyhopping doesnt necessarily make it better skillwise. CPM/promode also came up and made a "balanced qw", which is quite an achievement.

The UT franchise only took UT99 and became the "mortal kombat" of DM games afterwards, with UT2k*. What i mean by this is, it became more glitz than substance as anyone who would actually be into fighters would know. The same can't necessarily be said for quake/doom, but u cant say they took the right path for those games either.

corrections:

*NOR* QL which is a slight improvement over CPMA, but still based itself off of the shitty mod.*

Just because q1* is 'older' (not ql)


gg idiot ESR which has me on 'probation' (lol) and wont allow me to edit posts

And by q3 i mean baseq3/osp

Stopped reading here.

Fanboys need not reply.

I don't see anything wrong with that statement, if you had a good ping OSP was fucking fantastic.

No.

Really constructive, would you care to add your reasoning?

It was as constructive as your "NO, OSP IS GOOD" response.

What I actually said was that if you had a good ping, it was fantastic, nothing was capitalised either.

OSP, back when it was the be-all-end-all, was easy to set up, provided a stable platform to play on and had all the features (that at the time) were necessary.

Are you actually willing to tell me what isn't correct about all that? Or do you just want to continue being a douche bag?

Douche bag? What would you want me to say? You've written a second post that is just a longer version of your first comment - both lacking any content. Your anecdotal argument either shows a lack of interest in debating the subject, or a specific intent to argue without reason.

Would you expect me to back down just because you said "NO, OSP IS GOOD" any more than I would expect you to back down because I said "NO, OSP WAS BAD"? There is no discussion to be had here.

Whatever.

- Edit: what I was looking for was a discussion, you think something, I think the opposite - why not at least tell me why you think CPMA is superior to OSP (if that is your argument)

You accuse me of being anecdotal yet the response that I replied to had within it, "fanboys need not reply".

I could care less what you class as a fanboy, why not actually express an opinion - like I did, albiet very shortly and with little argumentative substance.

Are all Texans like this, or is just site admins?

If I told you that the netcode was better, we still wouldn't have a discussion. You'd say no, and I'd say yes. What exactly did you want to discuss that could in any way be discussed as a debate?

"Fanboys need not reply" is not anecdotal.... what are you on about?

I am not a site admin.

Really, you presume to know what I'll think - awesome?

Perhaps you didn't notice how I said, if you had good ping - it was fantastic. Of course the netcode was 'better' in CPMA - better for people who before were disadvantaged.

Jesus christ.

I don't really think either one is superior to the other as I never had an issue due to a sub 30ms connection. All I noticed when the switch occured was that everything felt slightly broken for a while, but then we all adjusted. Didn't matter in the end anyway due to QL.

I don't presume that you think.

You're a waste.

Of time, yes. Waste my time, and I'll waste yours.

This time I won't need an edit - whatever.

You didn't need one the last time.

jus one lil question, nerd who needs the last post.

Are you goin to quakecon?

Why would I?

to avoid gettin humiliated and embarrassed.


But didnt u ask me one time?

Avoid what? What are you talking about?

corrections:

*NOR* QL which is a slight improvement over CPMA, but still based itself off of the shitty mod.*

Just because q1* is 'older' (not ql)


gg idiot ESR which has me on 'probation' (lol) and wont allow me to edit posts

The game is nice, the community is nice.
Every game has flaws. And every community has some too.

Disregard the retard

/thread

Common no Nerf Arena love? Such an underrated game!

very good game

someone should make a mod for it.

disable walljumps, only make forward dashing available, increase weapon switch time, remove the shitty ammo system and maybe some other changes mentioned in this thread which i forgot. although not sure about the walljumps, cause then it would pretty much be cpm.

do it.

If there'll be a non-tiered armorsystem aswell then I'm in.

I've played every quake game and warsow.

If I had to make a game, it would have QW movement but not quite as fast (or bigger map levels) and same weapons as QL.

Warsow is a waste of developer talent. It's a game with a level of complexity that is not needed. Warsow is founded on comparable principles to CPM, the idea that if something is more complicated, it's a better game. This is just plain dumb and not true, and that's why Warsow is not that great of a game.

I used to play Warsow fairly frequently but lost interest when they went and made CA even more gay and proper race maps were few and far between. Tried it every now and then since, but seems they find gimmicks more important than having fun while playing.

Why oh why the promod vs basewsw split? The WarSow player base is already so small, why make that even more complicated?

>> http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2067747#pid2067747

After WarSow 0.42...

Yep, for me it was the same time, when I cba to get used to the by then changing variables, discussions about what to do and what not, so that it was just stressful to maintain a high competitive level.

>> http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2069150#pid2069150

only thing that stops this game from being really fun is run speed seems too slow. u go from moving really fast to dodging across the screen like a turtle

ql player since latemid 2008, warsow is very cartoonlike, which is irritating after 1 hour, reasonable enemymodel is a pig who is also due in about a hour play time, fullbright models are cool, cpm like movement is also cool, new kind of weapons and walljumping killed it for me, i don't like learning new stuff gamewise

new kind of weapons

sorry?

maybe my memory betrays me with the weapon stuff, but they definetly feel alot differen than in q3, it was about 2 years ago I last had a go in warsow

hmmm no.

i don't like learning new stuff gamewise

This statement which i guess is true for 98% of all quake players is the reason games like vq3 and quake live will never improve, and neither is even close to perfect.

what you said could be true, but in QL changes come and you have to smile or go away, which can be a positive thing depending on how you look at it. As for learhing new stuff, I learned a couple tdm maps in the past few days (new to me), cuz div1 ctf is really done for lately, its almost gone, I can't even remeber when we had the last proper ctf match: > So in my case its definetly the different feeling of warsow that puts me off.

public ca servers are a mess, ppl care more about running around the map at 2500ups rj'ing all over than to actually frag someone. most frags are made with plasma spam while rj'ing \o/