its bc the map is balanced so fits equally every style (was more true in q3 where rail hit 100dmg), unlike some other maps like t4 where oftenly better railgun acc won by default... also most ppl cba to learn maps, im having a hard time myself too... its like why would i want to get raped over and over in some (inferior) premium maps until i learn them, when i could play good ztn games in the meantime.

it doesnt fit yours for sure lol

unfortunate for us, your grandparents were lucky enough...

nuke incoming

[img1]

nah, in fact youre the one who mad, since i told you that youre a lucky shitnoob after losing a meaningless ztn game around 4am, being fully baked and probably drunk. altho, i didnt mean it too seriously as it seems it reached your hearth, because since than you developed the obssesion of stalking me on this forum and trying to "fight back" by replying shit to my comments. notable difference that i wasnt affraid to told u in the face and still hold up to my opinion, while you coming from the backside, trying to make me look bad in front of others...

the fact u mentioned beeing drunk and stuffs only prooves how mad u re after loosing this game

i could make some excuses why i didnt rape u there actually

but

ill keep it for myself

and yes its funny to stalk u this way cos i c how mad u re now lol

Polak, Wegier, dwa bratanki

obydwaj debile.

thats right, but hes not polish

Think again

nah i mentioned being drunk the reason i may didnt played my very best, hence why u stood the chance. the only thing you can rape is your mother with 1150 point on qlranks after slumming ~1000 point players over the last 20 matches. numbers are cruel things.

You seem infuriated.

Lurk more and check my quit ratio cos currently i only play from time to time from my office using trash 100-115fps laptop and 125hz mouse and i quit each time i got a call or whatever

Just check my acc lol i hit 20 lg at best

Id rather play drunk at my crt and 500hz mouse than on this constantly freezing lap i bought for 400eur 6 years ago

And u raged something about ping adv? LOL

And ye u seem infuriated ;))

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0hjSaYCRnA&NR=1

how fitting is this for the first reply? :D
exactly how i image the typical ztn only public player

even more sad is the fact that dm6 is second, the most important aspect is not how good the map is

people are stubborn, they are afraid to lose the advantage they have after playing a map 1000 times

if you would look at the map distribution from players who started with ql and made all tournament maps free, it would be a whole different story

id odesnt care about suggestions. If they would ql prolly would be a better game

ztn itself is quake, dont mess with it

ztn is still played in some leagues, maybe that's why it's played more than dm6 (or maybe because there's 1500+ russians x: )

Because people like shit. Like most flies.

I think the main reason people play ztn is that even though you are playing someone way better than you, with sufficient +back you can keep the score somewhat close so that you dont feel bad about it, while in aero/hektik/toxicity/t4/dm13 it can turn into one sided rape quite fast.

true and you might even win, with luck on ur side

also add dm6 and every other map to the opposite list. Ztn is kind of unique in that aspect.

but it is not the only reason for ztn's popularity. dm6 being removed also helped as well as many other factors. What you said is true though.

What he said is bs

bs

A major reason could also be that there are not that many good 'free' duel maps out there...

t7,dm13,t4,t9

personal opinion.

It is but don't forget that all of those maps were in the map pool at one stage. (and some still are)

So? Ztn wasn't in the map pool for some period of time, but people still played it 60 percent of the time :). Before ztn introduction into ql it was all dm6 game. Tho I must agree ztn is way better in q3(balance, game dynamics - suited better that map). Generally q3 was more unbalanced, but way more fun (only cpma lg buf was mistake). Fuck balance - I want frags, fast paced game + FUCKING BLOOD EVERYWHERE!

P.S. I remember "ztn" maps back in q2 days, they where very popular :D. I want id to hire "ztn" himself to make new map :<.

Play more QuakeWorld.

Q1,Q2,Q3 - that was the shit! Bloodfest/fragfest/funfest!

Out of those I personally like T7. The rest, no thanks, but I'm just 1x person so this might not be the case for others.

yeah, don't like any of those personally :)

maybe they dont like you either >:(

It's very likely yeah

you don't like the drugs but the drugs like you

You missed something so important that would even justify editing your initial post.

Dm6

If it wasn’t removed from all tourney pools would had give ztn a run for its money. Even myself that I love dm6, I hardly play it after being removed. Therefore, is not ztn the only popular map, but the only popular map left in map pools. Furthermore, being the only one left, makes it a monopoly and further adds to its popularity.

Dm6 and ztn are the most popular maps by far, followed by aero and then t7. Dm13 is also quite popular, especially among the pros.

DM6 should come back :)

how can you say that?
ztn is map where everything feels closed in on you because of all the tight hallways,..allright..

but dm6 is worse..there is basically only two routes you can go...

1. RA - RL - YA
2. RA - SHAFT mid/low - YA

guy with weapons wins.

don't know about that

dm6 feels more like attacking or defending on a ctf map, you can always alter your route slightly and rj's can effectilvely suprise your opponent (while not being as programmed/common as on ztn)

Aside from when people spawn together. aye.

yeah wish the fucking snobism towards dm6 would just end finally

get a plus man

you hit the nail on the head with that word

No I thought about it before posting, so no need to edit. I don't agree with you, look how many players play duel, and how many players compete on regular basis (attending zotac and stuff) Also for some time there was no ztn in QL.

Correct me if I am wrong, but ztn is now removed from tournament pools as well? And then look how long QL ranks exist.

you either didn't thought it well or ur thought process is biased or/and shortsighted.

I have not the slightest doubt that dm6 and ztn would have been by far the most popular if dm6 hadn’t been removed. Probably ztn would have remained no1, but not by far and certainly not far enough to make such acclaims.

Ztn is still played in most tourneys and leagues (most is an understatement, since was only removed from few). Then look in my profile in ql and qlranks. It seems that ztn is my favorite map by far. It is not, my favorite is dm6 and then aero.

Also ztn is the last remaining from the popular maps. Even if they remove it now, it will be still played a lot. I will keep playing it, since after the removal of dm6 is the map that I play the most. If though they remove ztn and add dm6, then I will play ztn much less and my focus will return to dm6.

Ok man, firstly talk to your mom like this, not to me or other strangers, just a good advice to your life

Now, you're saying how I should edit, how biased my thinking is, and other bullshit, but yet you provided only arguments based on your guessing and what's more important you based this on your "truth", that most of the players play maps according to, what's actually played in tournaments. But does common QL player care about that? Again how many players do have such competing ambitions? When I look at online cups I see +- the same names all the fckin time! Regular player will just play that maps, which bring him the most joy, be realistic...

touchy moron stop the real life lessons … it’s internet. Most ppl unlike what you think appreciate honesty. Also, drop the acting tough … again it’s internet.

Some quick points:

- you forgot the ppl that play on leagues
- you didn’t account the fact that the ppl who play at tourneys and leagues are the ppl who play the most
- some ppl don’t play, because the maps they like (like dm6) aren’t in the map pools
- most ppl don’t yet play in competitions, because the level is very high and they wait until they close that gap, by playing and training … guess what? … yes the maps in the map pools
- Everyone’s preferences have an impact, small or not, to everybody else’s. Simply put, me playing less dm6, also makes my best friend to play it less.

Of course there are many more, but I won’t write an essay of obvious points, just because you are too lazy to think.

Hey internethero, how do you know I didn't consider your points? How did you come to this conclusion? The problem is you obviously think of yourself like you're kind of genius and other person who doesn't agree with you is dumb moron or smth. :D You're full of bullshit man. I don't even wanna argue with you, not because your arguments were strong, in fact they're more than weak, but cos the discussion is leading nowhere, it's like moving in the cirle. Moron runs around (you) and can't get outside, I'm giving him stick so he can hold it and get out of the circle, but he still refuses, enjoy your circuit then, moron.

- some ppl don’t play, because the maps they like (like dm6) aren’t in the map pools

personally for me this is the main reason, i wouldnt mind learning t7 for example if the mappol would be something like ztn,dm6,dm13,t7 + 1, but wont practice spawn-catching aimrape on the current mappool for a year just to get dropped in the first round by someone good

personally id love for dm6 to be readded expecially in place of t4! that map stinks ;D

Don't you dareeeeeee

dm6 is great. t4 is great.

Imo t7 is the most balanced map in the pool. It's harder to +back/play out of control compared to ztn and you can actually play aggressive. in addition a diverse aim with every weapon is a huge + on t7. No need for a decent shaft on ztn :P

they fucked it up with the new spawn system IMO.
the map was perfectly balanced before that.

But it's still my current favorite.

seconded

ZTN - where one mappers meets their map

that's for sure dm17 tbh :p

yes it's pld

ztn should be premium only. lol.

You just killed Quake Live. It's a matter of time now when this becomes true.

or, alternatively, id could see how popular ztn is, despite it being a user made map, take the hint and make hub etc free as well!

edit: could implying should, not that id will have the balls or the foresight to do anything like that lol.

Better question is who the hell plays Hell's Gate over:

- Dismemberment
- House of Decay
- Battleforged
- Phrantic
- Almost Lost

Or well, pretty much any other map.

i dont know, who

According to QLranks, Hell's gate is played more than all of those. So someone apparently.

noobs playing hells gate doesnt make a difference

its duel, who cares.. boring on all maps.

t4, dm13, dm6 are win :D all win. It seems no one knows t4 though whenever I play :S

the only reason people think the old maps are better/balanced is because they've had YEARS AND YEARS of playing and testing and over time people have developed strategies that work on them. if people had been playing t7 for the past 10 years i guarantee the games would be so much more intricate and developed. the problem with current duel map pools is the balance of old/new maps and the styles the maps cater to.

for the duel game to TRULY develop, there needs to be full abandonment of all maps previously used. a fresh, new map pool full of maps never tried before/used before/made before and make them the only option in all cups. what will happen? all of the old schoolers who play ztn will either deal with it and play or leave the game, saying that the new maps "suck". there's nothing special about any map in particular, it doesn't work well because of certain item placement, or timings. they work well because people have played them enough to figure these things out. do you really think the map maker ztn made dm1 with the intention that it would be played to death in not only q1, but q3 and ql? why do people play dm6 for ca nonstop? it's not because every other single map developed is inferior, they're just used to it and have played it longer so they have a greater understanding of it. once another map starts to get played, they leave their comfort zone..


tl;dr people have to revolutionize the game through changing the map pools or we can keep playing the same old shit for the next 10 years. it's not on id, they don't choose which maps get played in duel cups.

I don't really see how changing the map pool will grow the game. i mean look at cs it has the same maplist for 10 years and thats doing ok.

from a spectator point of view i think its a really good idea to have the same maps. quake is hard enough for newcomers to learn without the maps changing every other week. thats one big advantage sports on tv have over quake, you watch one game and you know enough! and if you decide to watch that game again a year later its exactly the same.

it changes the game because it changes the way you have to play the game

CS map list is being altered slowly these days but even so, it's not the map that changes the way it's played, it's the tactics and even this day people are still coming up with new tactics on decade old maps

maps in sc change constantly tho

its bc balance depends a lot on maps

That`s not true! Also new players like DM6.
I startet playing QL half a year ago.
When playing DM6 its always the most fun.
Movement is so nice there.

Bring back dm6! And I know everyone will hate me for this, but bring back t9, too! Awesome 7-map pool to give us all a break from ztn: aerowalk dm6 dm13 t9 hektik toxicity t7

Screw t9

why

I think it isn't a good map for competetive play. The gameplay is flat and it consists mainly of spawn rape since the new spawns have been added.

It consists of spamming the teleport exits with plasma gun for 10minutes actually which is fucking shit.

thats called brain in ql now

ztn is so popular cause its easy map, where u can get one lucky frag and +b for next 9 minutes


and i agree with bringing back dm6 into competition... great map, hard to play without control, hard to +b...

lol

: DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDd

Does someone know who ZTN is? the guy who made this map.

here is an interview with the creator of ztn: http://www.cyberfight.org/offline/interviews/6081/

that interview is, like, 10 years old now :D

Thanks, great read :D

so, the same can be done in ctf. add wcp9 and the scene will increase because of it.

im old, i dont care, and i barely ever play 1v1, so here my true reasons:

Subreason 1. I know that map for years
Subreason 2. it has a lot of armor and distant rooms

Underlying reason: I know I'm least likely gonna get raped there and can use +back rockets if shit goes south

same with dm6

/thread

exaclty if u gusy want people to try out new maps. well then we need an autobalance or a real skill match system.

honestly nobody wants to play map they feel they are gonna get raped on. then it becomes all aim.

which is why i don't play fucking space maps and wouldn't bother dueling in ql.

thanks for your informative post cooloutac!!!

Well known fact.

If you're from UA/PL/RU, you're playing almost exclusively ZTN.

It's sad but you get used to it. I just F2 all bloodrun votes and enjoy other maps.

Ztn should be removed for ever. It is so boring to play on that map. It's impossible to do something new, special on that map. Everything was already invented and performed in some pro's games.

Even overplayed campgrounds is so much better and it is still most enjoyable map. Personally I always try to play all maps the same amount, but others plays mostly ztn so I usually lose that fucking map.

I hate that map, almost as much as dm17, but ztn should be banned for older players.

If ztn wasnt popular, it would be all dm6, if dm6 wasnt it would be all aerowalk, people just pick a map, and stick to it, you really think people will play all five maps equally, they'll just play the same shit

i hate all the Q3 maps... they lack something that q1 and q2 maps had. i guess because they feel very "optimized" for movement and shit, but i highly prefer the style of QW maps with lots of different areas, like abandoned base which was the original dm3... and q1dm6 is waaaaaaaay better than campgrounds. who knows why the fuck they took out one of the best maps in history of FPS gaming...

ZTN is my least favorite duel map, i prefer to play the other ones that are less played, but i usually don't get to. furious heights is a spectacular map but nobody plays it because theyre afraid to learn a new map and get shit on.

As someone who has never, ever played vq3 (either OSP or CPMA), ztn is fucking awesome and should stay in the pool. All the other old maps, though, are quite pale in comparison.

One person made a comparison (can`t remember who it was) before with basketball, since essentially since there`s only one "court" to play one, yet no one complains about playing on the same "court" over and over again.

The flaw with that comparison is that no one has the power to "change" the court. Since you`re stuck with it you`ll have to deal with it. But in Quake you are given so many choices, why stay on the same court? Even if you have your favorites or preferences, refusing to step outside of your comfort zone will dramatically reduce the amount of fun you actually have in the game. I play maps like Dies Irae, Window Pain, Battleforged, etc. and I`m still alive. If I can do it, so can you guys. The topic creator`s point is valid.

Same goes with anything else in life. Maybe your favorite food is pizza, or spaghetti, or pineapple with soy sauce. Whatever it is, you probably don`t eat that all the time and in the end if you eat the same thing over and over again it`s going to bring negative effects.

tl;dr: Trying something new will not hurt you.

There seems to be an endless amount of basketball analogies for QL. lol

Seems like nobody came to an idea of getting those tourney map pools out for eternity. It looks like the pool itself makes the problem. Why not play all the maps from a game on tourneys too? If there are some maps that simply doesn't allow for decent playing or even competition they should be outted of the game forever. But who's gonna judge which is it? Let's play all of them - bc it's fun!

pool is the not the problem, dm6 has not been in the pool for forever and is still the secondmost played map.
Also one of my favorites, im a bit sad I dont really get to play it because its not in tourneys anymore.'.
But only a very small fraction of the people playing quake plays in tournaments.

It should be taken into account that ztn is one of a few good maps which are free to play. Vast majority of players do not have a subscription, thus they cannot play the awesome maps which are premium/pro only.

People also love to +b for some reason and ztn provides plenty of opportunity to do that.

furious heights imho is really good. a map you need more skills to plus back on but definitely is possible. even more so with old hitboxes (-10 % increase hitbox).

rapha vs cooller was epic on that one. cant remember which tournament but where cooller lost because he ate a rocket when he was dropping down from shaft to chase rapha. beautiful game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKcmGCAEn80

could you please teach me how to play t7? i seem unable to get a grip on this map, no matter ow much i play it

I can. How good is your English? Or at least, how well do you understand it?

as long as u dont have this annoying brittish accent it will be allright :-)

lol. well, I can pull of a German one if you like that better.

ztn is good because you can run around and pickup items like pacman. You never have to fight and fighting is discouraged. It is also good because it's a wall hacker's paradise. It's also ancient, so everybody knows it forwards, backwards, and blindfolded!

The only real competition to ztn is furious heights, seeing as its a good map, is free, and in the map pool. But I think aerowalk (or maybe toxicity) would be nice to have as a standard map, since its quite different from ztn, whereas furious heights and ztn are fairly similar-ish, so generally people pick ztn over it.

Putting dm6 in the map pool would do it as well, but I would personally rather have aerowalk :D

The only real competition to dm6 is dm6.

I always wonder what ztn would be like if you switched the teleport destinations.

http://i.imgur.com/LYn76.png
http://i.imgur.com/LJNJU.png

%username% connected
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ztn_ua

Ok, I find this offensive.

Russian ztners > Ukrainian ones

russians as russians, whats the difference

hows that for offensive

Russian servers have more duel slots. :c