mvd, fix rail/rocket and game will be perfect!

All premium maps for standard users, CPMA as a premium feature = not that big of a split to the community = everybody happy.

However CPMA players wouldn't pay subscription anyway coz they're full of themselves (mostly).

this
extra features for money - core features for free
and yes, having more than 3 mondels to choose from can be an extra feature

this would be enough for me to buy premium. definitely.

"why should I pay for a crippled version of cpma when I can have hundreds of maps, gtv, lan support, better netcode, etc. for free?"

I bet that's what you would hear from most cpma players.

Also: another wishful thinking thread without any link to reality

Yeah, I think it's called "sense"?

I didn't say I disagree with them.

haha yeah, but whats' even funnier is watching people giving suggestions to id that have been asked 100's of times before. It's like, hello mcfly... what part of id hasn't listened to you in the last 3 years didn't you get lol. I love the glass is half full kind, i can see them standing on top of a mountain as the apocalypse comes crashing into them, hoping for the best while the smart ones are hiding in a bunker somewhere.

...yet you're still here posting...

Apocalypse means a bunker wouldnt save you. So who is the smart one now?

However CPMA players wouldn't pay subscription anyway coz they're full of themselves (mostly).

More like: CPMA players wouldn't pay subscription anyway because you can play the mod with unlimited maps for free already, considering we are in the middle of a global recession and you need to save as much money as possible.

I agree, also I think people naturally take advantage. Maybe put a cap on the number of games non paying users can play. A decent sized one but there does need to be an incentive to get people to pay.

It's a very fine line though but surely they must test different options to make it a business success that it currently isn't by all accounts.

Why pay when they can just play cpm for free??? also lets not forget poland was cpm only for the first 3? years of q3, guess you're to newb to be around then

Facepalm.

I was actually around when players like B, satyr, krogoth, venom, fetter, verbal & co. started to play. I know PL was all about CPMA since I played CPMA myself at the beginning.

-_-

link or necroshovel, much.

most every meaningful change in ql came from the cpma side anyway. so not sure what the point of this thread is. if its about cpm physics i dont see it happening in ql. altho seggregation of the community is really weak excuse. not like the community is unified anyway. theres a bunch of elitist players who play duel/tdm/ca and then theres the ca crowd. hardly a coherent group.

give us ladders/gtv or in game stream integration at the very least/more features on the web side. or do nothing. :)

ps: wheres the quote from?

Game features are cool, but I think what's really lacking is the community integration side of things. There's a friends list, basic chat and clans, but nothing like battle.net's matchmaking, integrated irc, voice chat, etc. Also... maybe a resign button or just built in frag limit for casual games... I think Starcraft has the right culture in that if you've got no hope of winning the game doesn't always need to continue to the time limit.

Frankly it's hard to do much development with just two people. I mean, lets be realistic.

i understand that implementing something like a matchmaking/ladder system would actually take a lot of work, but is it really that hard to implement some basic features on the web side? this isnt a rhetorical question cos i havent done any major web stuff and im actually curious about this. how tough would it be to make an attractive clan system with clan pages and stuff where people can upload content?

how about implementing a side bar on the main site with a list of streams? this is clearly not that hard since its already been done on the #live.ql site. (i had a discussion about this some time on focus and the one reasonably coherent reply i got was, we have no way of controlling the content on the streams so they could violate the esrb rating on the site, which seemed pretty weak since u can always put an age verifier or whatever).

i mean when u think about the fact that here u have a game through a web portal and we dont even have a section on the main page with some community contributed tutorials/videos. pretty fucking sad tbh. i mean quakelive.com should be like quakeworld.nu except better and with the embedded game. and i dont think thats asking too much or too much work.

Frankly it's hard to do much development with just two people. I mean, lets be realistic.

but arqon is back, he's superhuman and can do the job of 10 ports right?

Thankfully, he is not insane enough.

he is if he thinks he can turn this game around. He should find another company that can actually pay him. id doesn't have the resources to give him a decent enough salary for ql so they'll hire him as a private contractor paying him by the hour.

I don't think you understand how freelance rates versus staff rates are calculated. Typically freelance daily/hourly rates are higher than staff rates. The difference of the rate amounts to benefits(health insurance etc.)

There are real practical reasons for ramping up a team with freelancers, you can execute a lot of work in a short period of time without hiring full-time staff. I.E. cheaper in the long run because you are only paying a freelancer (the same hourly/daily rate a staffer gets) for a shorter span of time.

This is not to say that some studio's will not take advantage of their freelancers and break some laws in regards to overtime pay. I recently worked at a studio where I was working 9-7 5 days a week, that's 50 hours, or 10 hours of overtime a week. Unfortunately for me my pay stubs only read 40 hours, the amount of money was correct except for the fact that 10 of the hours should have been time and a half. That particular studio took a gamble assuming that I wouldn't have the money to raise the issue in a court of law, and they were correct.

However, arqon is not the type of person who would stand for that abuse, and id software is a respectable studio who is not looking to tarnish their name and make their studio seem less than optimal to work for.

...and id software is a respectable studio who is not looking to tarnish their name and make their studio...

Quake Live, Rage, have you heard of them?

What makes you think they'll hire him to do anything more than a couple days work? So yes, i do understand it quite well, they will NOT be hiring him full time (as staff or as a freelancer), based on their current lack of resources. Btw, you forgot to factor in benefits (medical, dental, paid leave) for being staff. Private contractor work is usually deemed temporary work and thats' all he can expect to get at this point. They don't have a plan in place for any long term projects, and if they do then it's probably being outsourced to currently existing staff members, such as those working on qlranks on their own time.

Quote is from here:
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...post179240

I miss the duel detective.

From CPMA:
- Voteable options
*** Fast weapon switching
*** Air-Control value
*** CPM-esque armor system, red being stronger + giving more, yellow being moderately strong + gives you a bit, green being weakest + little bit
*** CPM-esque armor adding, instead of the armor being additive, it only adds to a certain number

From my personal opinions (Unrelated to CPMA) I'd like to see these:

Ladders/Leagues like Starcraft 2's or Starcraft iCCup's ranking system, rather than this shitty and rather hidden "Tier" system.

GTV systems on every server (Except spawned servers) like http://qtv.quakeworld.nu/ so anyone can see a GTV link/connect info and join it and watch.

GTV systems on every server (Except spawned servers) like http://qtv.quakeworld.nu/ so anyone can see a GTV link/connect info and join it and watch.

Backwards IMO. GTV should only be accessible by spawned servers, and off-limits for pubs.

I was thinking of having it like an option for spawned servers.
P.S: Fuck premium members.

Well ofc it would be an option, but it being available on pubs kinda contradicts id's shitty philosophy, which is leave the non-paying customers with the bare minimum, then tease them with all the additional content.

I'm not saying that GTV for everyone would be a bad thing, but this is one of the few things I agree would be perfect as a feature for spawned servers.

PS: premium is retarded, should be merged with pro, so that there's just subscribers and non-subscribers.

We already have fast weapon switching....

Really? Since when did they implement that?

Months and months ago.

cpma armour system is making the game more aimbased, and less tactical... guys like avek are known to cut you off resources, its impossible with cpma system :X

that's exactly what the cpma armour system is trying to combat... a RA is a powerup and you have to work hard to enjoy its benefits

yeah, cause cpma is made for mindless aim only robots

Haha these comments are so ironic since if you had any skill in CPMA you'd know that the stronger items means two things:

1- Aim is actually less important than map control since having control of the powerups compensates for bigger diferences in aim

2- Movement, pathing, prediction, and item timing, skill at getting the items without taking more damage than you gain in health/armor, are all emphasized over aim due to the buffed armors.

If your aim is better than mine, but I move better than you do, then I will beat you to all the armors and your aim isn't going to save you. Relative to the other skills, aim is much more emphasized in QL with a bigger payoff than it is in CPMA.

biggest bullshit i ever read on this side, lets see who u are... ow random usa fag, hiding behind guest account

Since you are just trolling and not making arguments, but I think it's fun to talk about, I thought of one for you. You might say that since the _movement_ system in CPMA is so much more fluid, it is harder to deny territory to an enemy. That means that in CPMA, whenever your enemy wants to fight you, it's harder to avoid taking the fight than in QL by anticipating where the enemy will attack from, taking up a superior position, spamming in that direction, etc - especially if its over an item, and so in CPMA you'd think you have to rely on your aim to prevail.

On most CPMA dm maps I'd say that's true, though cpm15 would be an anomaly. On cpm3a or cpm24, if you are going for RA and he wants to fight you for it, there isn't much you can do to just bully him off it and stop him challenging you. Typically the player attacking the item spawn has an advantage over the player camping it, VERY MUCH so on cpm24 but also true on cpm3a.

Luckily, movement, map control, and prediction win the day here too - on cpm3a what most players do is time the armor so that they can rush through the RA spawn at the speed of sound and get the fuck out and back into a good position to convert the frags before they can be challenged at all. It takes a lot of skill to do that - leaving out the lack of an in-game timer (this wouldn't be significant to elite QL players but it's another way that decent players have advantage over beginners in CPMA), it takes a lot of practice and many games played to get into RA and get out without eating prediction rockets and whatnot. I don't care how well you aim - if you don't have that shit down, I _will_ frag you on the way in or out of RA spawn. Think you can beat me without ever taking an RA? Maybe your aim is *that* much better than mine, but if it is, you deserve to win - this is Quake for fucks sake.

On cpm24 it's so fucking hard to get out of RA without taking more damage than you got from the armor that a lot of the time it's the player out of control who's gambling to take it (and usually getting fragged or taking 200 on the way out) while the in control player camps upper YA. Again, aim is not a factor when it comes to taking items here, but that's not the whole story.

But wait, Anonymous! Having a strong LG is a huge advantage on cpm24 and it's very possible to take map control by just fragging the enemy with better lg!

True, but this would be WORSE if the armors weren't buffed. Getting only 50a from a YA instead of 100 would make it _easier_ for the out of control player to take back control through nothing other than aim. Since the armors are stronger, it's still practical for a player with better map knowledge and prediction to edge out a player with worse aim. For an example, look at dziku vs zoom from CPM Master's cup.

QED, you're a troll, but I had fun writing this so hey we both win!

tl;dr

but ur still wrong...

Really did you get raped that hard in cpm your only post here around about it?, just face facts you're bad at quake not matter what version or mod it is BF3 mite be more you flavour

yes i was raped in cpm, but played it long enough to spot all its flaws... its shit for me, eot...


but lets talk about you... u play quake for 10 years, and please explain who you are?

P.S. A personal anecdote.

When I was playing CPMA about 25 hours a week and had about 8,000 games against some of the best players in North America - in other words, I was very far from the elite players of that time like rat, dziku, koddy, etc - I once lost to vo0 60 -3 on cpm22 :( - but I knew enough to have informed opinions about shit like this - I noticed when Q3/QL players who had an open mind and wanted to try something different would play a CPM game against me, they almost always had better aim than I did. And it never mattered, since they didn't understand the movement system so I took every item and my aim being maybe 70% as good was enough to retain map control and convert frags when I was constantly stacked.

When they did frag me due to sick LG or whatever, I could recover and get back in control quickly since the buffed items allow an out of control player who can steal a YA or two to be able to fight or at least do damage even if the opponent has 200/200. I never played QL enough but I got the impression that this is not possible on QL dm6, for example - being out of control means you're fighting for several minutes to regain control even if you're winning the chess match. So Which way makes aim more important?

I agree with everything you said

fuck you for not registering tho

Haven't posted here in years, forgot my old login. I'm too dumb to figure out permissions and get CPMA working again. Help me and maybe I'll dig out my old password? :-)

what's the problem?

In Win7, I can never update my config or change any settings because the Quake III folder is readonly. So I go back to defaults every time I start it since config.cfg can't save changes. :(

are you using cnq3.exe?

Nope. ChallengeQuake3.exe :D

you need to type /writeconfig q3config to save changes, cnq3 doesn't autosave the settings

*inhales*

gtv mvd all maps free extra cpma features prem/pro cpm/defrag/jailbreak/weapon factory/team fortress/headhunters/painkeep rulesets ladders leagues anticheat more tiers or no tiers tiers for duel based on qlranks elo system open chat on the website promotion of pickup channels mapping contests better chat tokens community manager more willing to interact with the actual community delay before you can reconnect when you're kicked

*exhales*

OH wait it was only about cpma related stuff, nevermind.

,

.

,.

,.,

and online bot support!

stair movement that dont need to bind mouse2 for jumps.

why u need mouse2 for that?

when i played like dm6 u jump its like the stairs stopping u so u need to click very fast. On ql its much easyer thats why stairs ould be fix or edit like in ql are

oh u meant fixed in cpma.

its not

ye ye, i get you.
you want the stairs in cpma to be like in ql.

yep

when did he write this?

I want air control. Pmove_airaccel is not the same as airaccelerate in CPM, QW, WSW, q2 ctf l-fire and others.

Apparently today.

I think this is fake for some reason.

I would love to see promode migrate to Quake Live, it would make pub CA on dm6 SOOOOOO MUCH MORE INTERESTING-er. I just love the ability to move at the speed of light and do flick rails / spam nades or do combos of things, airshot and then LG kill or rocket shot and then rail. Instant weapon switch combined with the movement is just sex. But I fear this won't be implemented, and if it does get implemented, I feel as thought both CTF and CA will be getting a boost of people playing it #promode style, and hopefully the CPMA people will come on over to Quake Live, I mean guys, we have amphi (; all we need is air control and maybe a few weapon tweaks, just leave the shotgun alone, that shit has been fucked up, overpowered, underpowered, and now I think its acceptable and thats all I can say, so much unusual shotty changes with the spread, and the pellet damage, and the number of pellets, I dont recall anyone complaining until it got changed each time

Everybody complained about the shotgun except for those tdm players who liked the idea of having a long range quadshotty as effective as a railgun.

you mean around 2009 early 09 and late '10 because yeah, shotty was WAY too strong, in CTF especially in those old demos it would be the only thing to use with quad and for TDM too, but the nerf they did was too strong and then we had so many WTF updates, when things started being fine, it got fucked up at least five times If i recall

Only twice iirc .
Damage tweak, spread tweak, then an indirect one ( bigger hitboxes )

whats iirc stand for?

IIRC - If I Recall Correctly.

don't forget the maps either

fake

something just came to mind:

people seem to love buying skins and voicepacks and stuff like that(like in LoL or TF2 for example).

why not make only 3 or 4 models available as normal user (keel/bright, crash, sarge, visor), and premium users get all the skins and models. i bet some people would rather pay for that, then 2 or 3 maps they rather not play anyway.

tf2 is such a crap... also i don t think quake players are as stupid as tf2 players which means this would mostly be a waste of timework for a thing than less than 50 peeps would buy.

kthxbai

I support this idea and also think id should emulate tf2 model as much as possible. for example rl should only be availible as a dlc.

xerp

this made me laugh.

D is X in Russian.

rofl

playing some QW for fun (because of the ignition thing!) i've really realized how holyshitawesome serverside mvd's are, watching why you got raped through enemy pov = $$$ for improving

Quakeworld may be the past, but in reality it's the future. :))))])])])]

What's this "ignition" thing you speak of?

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2171755

Needs more cute little kittens imo.

Airmovement in ql would be so $$$. Instant switch :D

Let`s just hope that if CPM physics are added it doesn't add with it even more immature trash talk and skill segregation for no good reason. I mean why is it not possible to have Quake without elitism these days? I mean I enjoy ProMode but I don`t enjoy the attitude that goes with it.

Because of the world...

The cpma spawn markers would be nice.

Also hit detection that works better on higher pings.

Does really nobody know where arqon is? I mean someone of the 1000 esr users should know or did he block any kind of real life relationships and had no friends?
I think we should get csi:ql involved in that case.

i think it's more along the lines of, doesn't anyone care? And the answer is no.

you already established for yourself that there is no point in discussing this subject. now simply gtfo

On the kenya map cpm stream they ran tonight, they were chatting about arqon and someone I think mentioned that he got awfully sick and almost died or something. Don't take my word, but they mentioned something like that.

the legal owner of the CPMA code is missing making any cooperation between the two teams difficult if not impossible

no point discussing it then

also cpm would fail to deliver much like freezetag has, for one simple reason, you still don't have a playerbase on premium servers, nothing will change that now.

I would love CPM physics in QL. He's right though, a less-than-perfect implementation would just annoy everyone. The 'QW-style' physics they gave us as a devpick a while ago were horrible, and if they gave us 'CPM physics' of that quality I would QQ pretty hard.

No to air control
Yes to ramp and double jumps

have a + sir

i would even add less ground friction so u can actually dodge stuff and then with that try to rebalance the armor system so it doesnt feel like paper in tdm.

also pls pls can we have the cpm ammunition system? ctf especially is so terribad with the current ammo system.

ctf especially is so terribad with the current ammo system.

Spoken like someone who's terribad. Nice.

The cpm ammo system kind of sucks because you're constantly out of ammo. q1, q3 and ql are all okay though.

this is rather the point tho. ammo shouldnt be infinite (which it practically is in ql ctf for a defender).

im not saying it should be EXACTLY like cpm. i just mean the same reasoning should be used in limiting how much ammo each pickup gives.

I agree, its too easy to be able to spam imo

the ql ammo system is as horrid for duel too.

I agree the ammo can get kind of high if you keep getting weapon pickups. In cpm having 5 rails and just getting a slug or two from pickups is worse because it's less fun, just due to being annoying, imo.

A hybrid 10 rails on pickup of a new rg and just getting left over ammo from other rail pickups would be ok, but I don't really think it's that big of a deal. Map structure makes more of a difference.

or increase weapon spawn time. 5 seconds is just too low, particularly in duel.

ian i think the main idea behind keeping the ammo that restricted in cpm is the fact that you have much less restrictions on movement. so finding an ammo pack or a weapon takes much less time. so obviously if the logic were to be adapted to vq3 physics u would need the ammo restrictions to be less strict.

you make a very good point about map structure tho. any change will affect maps differently. whats really mystifying to me is how maps in ql (especially ctf) seem almost designed to showcase how bad the ammo system really is. take the newest ctf map reflux. its got a rail on each side of mid. so the mid def basically just sits on it all the time and has infinite ammo for rail. not to mention the fact that every time an attacker dies and spawns back in base he picks a rail up on his way across. if this isnt bad item layout i dont know what is.

if this isnt bad item layout i dont know what is.

It's pub ctf and it does the job.

Yes to the whole cpm/cpma package but only if rat comes back.

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2176569#pid2176569

arQ's response to this matter... repost btw, if you scroll up a bit ;)

the main thing is that they need to do SOMETHING. just leaving the subscription plan as it is is apparently failing. hard. they need to change something about it. i've seen so so many ideas for it. they need to look at these, have a huge meeting. actually perhaps many meetings about these things. take the best ideas, make DECISIONS. then implement it. GDI TO HELL!!!!!

they dont' have the resources, they have to keep subscriptions open, although i would totally agree its' their only hope for keeping the playerbase active.

ARGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!1!1!!11!!!!!!!!!
















these guys who sit in their offices at id have no idea how frustrating this is to see this fail so bad. for me anyway. idk if anyone else feels as strongly as i do

There's lots of people who agree with you, but most of us, including myslelf have thrown in the towel. After 3 years of the same results and especially after the last update, for which they had 3 months to prepare for, it's obvious noone at id, bethesda or zenimax cares about this game. Let em keep monetizing the few noobs left paying for the game, it won't last and they'll only have themselves to blame for that failure as they fugged up royally by splitting the playerbase and pitting noobs and veterans in the same servers. That might have worked in q3 8 years ago (when everyone was starting out at 0), but it was never going to work for ql since those same players have 8+ years of experience on the newbies entering ql for the first time and a big reason many of them exit the game the same day 2 hours later. Just a never ending cycle of bad decisions.

I think, when it's all said and done, people will come to their senses and realize this game never had any real oversight (testing, planning, etc). It wouldn't surprise me if sponge and sync acted alone without anyone checking up on their actions. We already know todd was spending most of his time on rage, so that could very well have been the case these last couple years.

You've thrown in the towel? Ok you can't play cos your account is banned (although obviously could just make another) but regardless, about 90% of your posts on here are about the state of ql.

bf3 keeps me occupied while i watch rome burn. You try it yet?

Yes I own bf3, also currently playing dodonpachi ressurection and dead space 2.

:)

when syncerror wrote it and where

So when is Hollenshead going to step in and try and turn this thing around? Or was that just more talk for PR sake?

So long as syncerror is calling the shots, it won't matter what todd says. We all know what needed to happen, but it never did and now its' too late.

So, do you want to say that the tail wagging the dog?

Please, please, please do this.

"I think real fans of CPMA would rather just play CPMA, but if there are fans of Quake Live that would like to see further CPMA features in QL, it would do them a greater service if they specified what from CPMA they'd like to see."

This makes me a little sick really. If SyncError had been reading ESR a little more carefully he would see plenty of threads with suggestions, including those from CPMA and some not yet existing there. Ignorant motherfijsigjshiosn :(

Lack of community awareness from id? You don't say. Groundbreaking revelation there.

mvd only, please don't ruin ql with cpm air control as well.

did any of you actually question that this is an id title? cpma has nothing to do with id, why should they implement it? its like the developer of need for speed should throw in a slick tire model cause the community likes it. think ppl.

?
Can you re-state your argument, because what you just wrote makes no fucking sense.

cpma is third-party. id software has nothing to do with cpma other than the game is the same game. Other than that, they are unrelated. Although I don't understand the NFS reference lol

cpma came around due to qw so id has a lot to do with it.

But again, they had no part in it.

id software has nothing to do with cpma other than the game is the same game.

Haha, this was kind of my point. CPMA has everything to do with Quake Live, because they're both modified versions of Quake 3. I don't see why the fact that id didn't make CPMA is relevant, except as a practical obstacle. It doesn't affect the answer to the question 'would CPMA features in QL be a good thing'.

The problem is

While cooperation with some existing CPMA coders may be possible, the legal owner of the CPMA code is missing making any cooperation between the two teams difficult if not impossible.

But that's not necessarily a permanent state of affairs (as far as I know, the lead CPMA developer disappeared from the internet for a while due to serious real-life issues, but hasn't ruled out getting involved with CPMA again at some point), and it's not a reason for us to stop encouraging it in case it does become possible.

To dek: sorry, that first response of mine was rude for no good reason.

What I was saying was that they didn't have the rights to it (then again I'm not sure if gametypes/physics are under the same ruleset as maps)

money talks and people are desperate

most of the "new" maps have nothing to do with id either, so thats a failed argument.

Except that they bought the rights to use them (If you're talking about the maps that aren't Reflux lol)

ha ha

cpma in ql, why not...more choices for everybody, that can't be such of a big deal.
I would still play both.

CPMA ? Nice, but still I'm waiting for defrag mode (for standard users, with official ladders ofc.) in ql badly. This one can really make ql community bigger, a lot of new players and old defragers would join to play.

I think it would be a brilliant addition. When you're sick of fragging, etc just do a few runs. Thing is I'd love to see the old maps in the state they were made in - never gonna happen in ql. mind i'd settle for the pdm's