have fun recreating the content i already had 2 years ago. Maybe yo'ull have it done in 5 years for the hardcore players that are left. lol

This is not about personal pride, nor about content ownership. Contributions are very welcome from anyone, and if you already have put thoughts on this, the community will benefit from your wisdom.

my site was hacked by someone in texas. That information was lost due to some jealous fuck who couldn't stand that we were talking about his tierslumming ways. Besides i wouldn't waste another minute helping the developers of this game who dont' care about any of us other than the paychecks subscribers give them.

Besides i wouldn't waste another minute [...]

Still you waste a lot of time posting here. The real question is: why don't you act accordingly to your preaching, and GTFO this dead-game place?

Dont' be mad dude. I dont' hate your efforts, the problem is, you've come too late to the party. I'm actually warning you not to waste this precious time in your life. You'll regret it. The only people who will make use of the wiki are hard core gamers, and they'll eventually find that information anyways. The noob doesn't care as he's too busy trying to survive in-game.

I will reply seriously.

Ten years ago I had a discussion with my father about the direction I wanted to take for my future: art school or engineering.

He told me this "If you want to do art, you have to do it because you love the process, and not because whatever glory/fame you might possibly get one day. There are just too many who attempt and fail, that it is likely for you to fail as well. But, if you think you can enjoy the process of making art no matter the conditions (no money, side jobs, etc), that life will be awesome".

The next day I signed up for engineering, lol. But besides that, he was damn right.

I will tell you something. I love doing these things. I love to write and share my excitement, I love to organize stuff and promote things. I love the process. Will this save Quake Live? Will I get money out of this? I do not know, probably not. I hope the best for the future but that is not the point as long as I am a happy person (which I am).

Now let me tell you something about you. I'm trying to be as kind as possible, so that I don't hit a wall but reach the real person behind.

I think you have problems controlling your emotions, as simple as that. When you are excited you go into a positive rampage (playing all the time, making unsustainable efforts in writing guides, tutorials, sticky threads etc). When you are frustrated, you go nuts the other way (conspiracy theories on id, doom preaching, etc).

Try to find a balance, seriously. In the end, you are acting shit (yes you are) just because you are sad you were not successful with your positive run and actually ended up banned. Banned for trying to do good which definitely feels unfair to you. I think you are scared to find out that maybe you simply did it the wrong way, in the wrong place, or without the right help.

Now, tell me I am wrong.

"We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."

well written.

but. i think it's pretty one-dimensional.
what if you would have taken the art direction? don't you think that with a blurry fundament, you could have the exact opposite attitude now in terms of your (side) interests? and only participate in something that has an extreme high chance of success? balance?

what i'm trying to say is: even if i love it to death, if i personally don't see it could succeed, i won't join you.


and yes there are a lot of people here that enjoy to make others feel bad and that's what you're talking about.

Interesting points.

My take is that "success" is a tricky driver. It may give you enough energy to overcome challenges, but it may become so important that the hows and wheres are subjugated, leading to a kind of persons I hope to never belong to.

maybe the use of "success" is a little bit off in my post. I'm actually talking about the personal outcome, the satisfaction, social working etc.

i just wanted to say that if someone doesn't participate you shouldn't consider him "against" the idea, against you or the community or something similar, there are tons of different perspectives each of us is into.

without the right help.

the community and id had every opportunity to help out. Not a single person, besides wyndam, kittenignition and muffinman attempted to do so voluntarily..(i don't count yakumo as he's just a dev in disguise).

The problem lies with the community and teh developers. i keep telling you. You're gonna find out soon enough.

p.s: i'm just honestly warning you from dissapointment. Call it bitterness, call me a negative nancy, but i've been at your "happyness" and i've been at your "optimism", and like icey_pain, i finally figured things out, and you will too (in time....)

http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...post164839

That was his last post in the game. If you look back to the subscription announcement thread, this guy was the biggest proponent of that change and tireslessly defended id software for the next 6 months until he too finally realized the truth.

you'll see

month by month youre getting closer to a total mental breakdown. all i hope it will only happen after xmas, so your family will be able to celebrate peacefully the last time for the next 20 years without having to take care of you throwing your poop to the wall, eating bugs etc

LMFAOOO! HARSH!

what's that vxility? vux? whatever you call yourself these days, daniel i meant.

ray, why are you disclosing my aliases :o

so he knows who he's talking to. Relax noone here knows you, other than people from pip... only him, roxy and kitten frequent this site from our past clan. Sigh, starting to miss the good ole days....

So you're sure he's not Tyryl? God damn, i could've sworn...

month by month your anonymous comment goes by unheard because it's anonymous. perhaps if you were man enough to show yourself however...

thats' what i thought

Whoo! I'm under that post :P

I will tell you something. I love doing these things. I love to write and share my excitement, I love to organize stuff and promote things. I love the process. Will this save Quake Live? Will I get money out of this? I do not know, probably not.

ok fine, i can certainly relate to that. Love the process as well. Just lay off the personal attacks. If you want to get to know me, i'd invite to my site to show you just what i've done.... oh wait.... welll if it was still up i could have done that....

______________

hmm speaking of sites with loads of content: has seanage's ownage site come back online on another domain that anyone knows of?

What was the url of your site?

That's the thing. You and I are very alike in the spirit. Just very different in the form.

we are alike in more ways than one, only difference being, i no longer beileve this game has the foundation for a succesful venture. Time is precious, and i've wasted enough of it on this game. If they shut it down tomorrow it all goes to waste you know....

anyways, do it for ESR., just don't do it thinking it makes a difference for the game itself.

gg

Time is precious, and i've wasted enough of it

Clearly not, because you're still here.

Ahh pls GTFO ray. Such a bitter idiot, there is more bitterness in you then all the retirement homes in Florida combined Jesus Christ!

this is probably the single best post on ESR, ever. Who put this bowl of onions next to me, seriously

If a new player is asking how to do things, people can just point them to the wiki if they can't be bother showing them stuff.

they already have that system inplace, its' called the getting started forum:
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/forumdisplay.p...ng-Started

my site was hacked by someone in texas.

Do you have evidence of this?

Of course he doesn't but hey id Software is located in Texas and they want him insane or dead so it must have been someone from Texas right? RIGHT?! *sarcasm off*

i'm sure it's just coincidence then?

Do you have evidence that it was from Texas, or are you just assuming, like usual? If you don't, please stop saying that it was someone in Texas.

a coincidence it was a proxy from texas? Anyways, no ofcourse i can't prove who specifically did it, if i did i would have gone after them by now. Meh w/e not like those resources would do any good anymore. No playerbase left to make use of it.

btw: what's your analysis on ql's uptick in users of late. I can't imagine one update with a few maps making much difference, but pigs fly sometimes. what say you?

I didn't say proof of who did it, I said proof that it happened, and that it was someone from Texas.

As long as regular users can't edit entries, I'm happy.

We can have an editor system, where user changes must be approved by admins (a bit like majoring news / approving files).

Content Structure

There is no single way of doing this. There is no perfect cathegorization, no optimal structure, etc. It is all about finding a good balance between correctness, completeness and ease of access (readability).

I spent a bit of time lurking Liquipedia, and I think the overal structure is good. We can start with a similar organization. I would personally put down 3 main cathegories.

General Information
This should be a concise description of what are the rules and elements of the game "out of the box" (so no community invented stuff). Almost like a gameplay design document that lists whatever stats, and gives a good base for the rest of the wiki.

Movement System
Movement is so important that, imho, it deserves its own top-level cathegory. It must be clear for anyone new the complexity behind it. I would try clearly distinguish between what people really use in-game (base techniques) and what defraggers use in their trick movies (advanced techniques). It is a stretch since everybody pulls some half-beating while playing, but it's still a good compromise.

Quake Live Strategy
This would contain the "beefy" stuff about strategy in the various game modes. Stuff like spawn control, item timing etc would fall under this. To me, this is what would make the wiki to excel.

A rough mockup:

You can embed youtube videos with the tutorials as well :D

Sure, this will be done.

this
there is so much that just has to be shown.
and that fullstack.tv guy could read it in (prettyawesome?)

I want to help. I actually went to bed last night thinking about making a resource and guide site for QL, but I rather than making it a wiki, I was going to try and make it an interesting dynamic site.. but that was pretty much going to be on my own, and a wiki on ESR would be infinitely better content-wise.

what about something like Quake done quick? Something that, to complete beginners, explains what quake is and the very basic elements of the game.

Why would anyone that plays Quake Live now need a wiki? Have we not been playing since q3test?

Same reason thousands of SC2 players lurk Liquipedia every day.

After the big amount of everybody-knows knowledge that serves mainly newbies / externals, a wiki can include advanced stuff that good players can benefit from.

a wiki can include advanced stuff that good players can benefit from.

those 300 players already know that info, or are you referring to mouse centimeter measuring test analysis...

i'm sure the average player really cares about that....

again, this info will only suit the hard core gamer.

You're letting your ego get the better of you in this conversation. You're not listening. I did this shit for 2 fucking years dude, i had all this information readily available for people on my site. You know who made use of it? guys like muffinman and kittenignition. Hard core fanatics dude. Noobs dont' want to read a 10 page instruction pamphlet. They dont'. Do you? oh wait, you're one of those hard core guys. Dont' get it twisted, i was too, you have to be to make resources like that.

It's one thing to create these resourecs, but its' another to CONVERT (there's that word again) people into using them, and as it stands , noone has a reason to learn. They know the same people will continue to win at the highest level and they know there's no modding community to make maps/resources for. The only people who may be interested in this wiki are moviemakers since many of them do it simple as a portfolio piece for their career, the serious ones that is (tritin, etc).

Otherwise, these in-game manuals will lay unused and you will have wasted hours/days on it, that are better spent on coaxing id to ADVERTISE THE FLIPPING GAME.

My humble vision is an ESR that welcomes newbies. A place for literally anyone who likes Quake.

Why ESR and not the official webpage? Many reasons, including the existing user base here that would hardly migrate and the lack of control over quakelive.com.

My humble vision is an ESR that welcomes newbies. A place for literally anyone who likes Quake.

Exactly as i said, this is an ESR project. You're not helping Quakelive.com with your own words, you're helping ESR.

You're probably an admin for all i know so i dont' know why this surprises me, but its' selfish and a lie, since you're claiming you're doing this in the best interest of quake live players, when you're only doing it for the best interest of ESR forumgoers.

well, at least you were honest about it. lol

also;

the lack of control over quakelive.com.

are you saying the developers won't communicate with you in regards to placing your wiki on their site? what a surprise. Now you understand my frustration finally.

I might be wrong, but to me ESR is where most of the Quake fans are. If tomorrow everybody go to a different page, I will be happy to follow. My attachment to ESR is solely due to the community behind it.

Indeed, ESR is to Quake as TeamLiquid is to Starcraft.

.

vedic disagrees, this is not a quake site according to him. And he's been here longer than most.

"it's not a quake", meaning it's not geared for quake, but for esports. this wiki will not be a quake wiki, but an esports wiki. we will be happy to include any games in it. however, this has nothing to do with the correctness of what memento_mori is saying, and we could only dream that ESR becomes the site where most fans of any other game congregate.

this wiki will not be a quake wiki, but an esports wiki. we will be happy to include any games in it

But as i said before, why not start by creating a wiki, (eg: a section) for Starcraft 2 first then? Which is 100x as popular as this game. Wouldn't that serve its' purpose better? Would certainly garner more attention than a quake live wiki would. Don't you think?

probably because memento_mori is not into starcraft 2
a wiki system is based on user submitted content, so you'll be welcome to submit starcraft 2 stuff to it

why is memento_mori the only one capable of doing it. I'm pretty sure, if asked, vedic would contribute towards a sc2 wiki.

I didn't say capable, did I? I have no idea what everyone is capable of, what matters is that he's volunteering. Vedic isn't.

Why don't you understand the importance of the words people use when talking? You keep misrepresenting peoples ideas, states of things and intentions, and all it does is wastes everyone's time and create chaos. If you tried to organize your thought process, your perception of the world, maybe you would achieve something by applying yourself in an efficient manner.

I didn't say capable, did I? I have no idea what everyone is capable of, what matters is that he's volunteering. Vedic isn't.

wasn't referring to his capabilities, i'm sure he's capable, was only wondering why "him". But you answered that just now (he was proactive, wheras a vedic wasn't).

The rest you wrote sounds like misplaced anger. There was no confusion, it just sounded like anyone who volunteered got the job which is dangerous (imagine a jamalz attempting this wiki)..

edit: actually

You keep misrepresenting peoples ideas

in regards to this, i already answered that in terms of believing his cause to be just.. We're learning more about his intentions from paladium and they seem justified. It's great for ESR.

wasn't referring to his capabilities

you were, because you used the word 'capable', if you do not mean to refer to, or imply something, then don't. as it was, it was a question with a false premise. don't make straw-man arguments if you don't want to waste everyones time.

The rest you wrote sounds like misplaced anger.

this reinforced the fact that your perception is warped. you are inferring emotions that are not there, and that you can not know are there.

There was no confusion

again, I never used the word 'confusion', why are you arguing against a statement that was never made? you are again misrepresenting the argument.

it just sounded like anyone who volunteered got the job which is dangerous (imagine a jamalz attempting this wiki)..

yes, there is a 'Contribute' link on top, anyone who clicks it, or volunteers, can submit content. including jamalz. this will apply to the wiki

Why don't you understand the importance of the words people use when talking?

that is inferring i was confused, hence my rebuttal:

Do you really want a drawn out fight over tone, nuiance, etc? This conversation doesn't have to be any more complicated than the reasons for having the wiki initially already was.

you were, because you used the word 'capable'

word games 101. Vedic taught you well. next

this reinforced the fact that your perception is warped. you are inferring emotions that are not there, and that you can not know are there.

You're turning nothing into something. You stated simply that i misrepresent people. I could very easily yell "slander" but opted not to, since you can't prove memento's actions for the same reasons i can't prove your emotions.

yes, there is a 'Contribute' link on top, anyone who clicks it, or volunteers, can submit content. including jamalz. this will apply to the wiki

and as such, is dangerous, no? Don't see the issue with that statement. Some sort of barrier should be in place to keep certain people from contributing, unless you want someone like daniel or fudge to add a few thousands lines to a page for trolling purposes.

You're wasting your time lecturing me on something that has already been discussed and confirmed in this thread. There's no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. In lamens, you're late to this party, the beer is gone.

that is inferring i was confused, hence my rebuttal:

no, it's not. not understanding is not being confused.

Do you really want a drawn out fight over tone, nuiance, etc?

first, I don't want to have a fight, I want you to not misrepresent peoples positions and create chaos in discussions. this has nothing to do with tone, or nuance, but with the meaning of what people are saying and doing. for example, it is clear from the get-go that memento_mori wants to do something (volunteering), your opinion that no one is going to use his efforts is not an argument against him doing what he wants. you wasted time and half a thread on arguing something that has no merit. I want you to stop wasting peoples time. at the same time, you can direct your efforts towards something productive.

This conversation doesn't have to be any more complicated than the reasons for having the wiki initially already was.

this conversation is not about the wiki, but your misguided efforts, and it's not complicated at all. words have meanings, understand and respect what people are saying to you. this is simple.

word games 101. Vedic taught you well. next

English language is not a 'game'. I don't see what Vedic has to do with anything, he's guilty of similar logical fallacies as you are.

You're turning nothing into something. You stated simply that i misrepresent people. I could very easily yell "slander" but opted not to, since you can't prove memento's actions for the same reasons i can't prove your emotions.

of course I can prove memento's actions, because they are factual and observable, just as I can prove what his stated intentions are, because he stated them.

and as such, is dangerous, no?

no, it's at the core of this website.

Some sort of barrier should be in place to keep certain people from contributing

the admin/moderation system makes it very functional. any contributions are welcome from anyone.

You're wasting your time lecturing me ...

maybe I am, but it's not certain at all. it depends on you.

lol really dude? we're really going to have this back and forth vedic like argument over symantics? Come on lol.

no, it's at the core of this website.

brb, preparing my hello kitty wiki contribution.

and lastly, jsut so we're clear, you're not going to bully me over facts. Those facts being, that id has never given 2 shits about anyone attempting a project like this. So i'm not wrong to say that an effort like this, for the purpose of saving ql (which we now know not to be), would have been a waste of time unless you can name me a wiki like project that made it into their #guide, which you can't because it hasn't happened.

I want you to not misrepresent peoples positions

and in in regards to this again, there was , and still is, no actual news story explaining this Wiki project as a general gaming wiki, it was instead only hinted at by other admins as vedic was just as surprised by it as i was. So anything that was said before that information leaked out, was based on the premise that it would become a wiki specifically for quake live and nothing more

he's guilty of similar logical fallacies as you are.

did you really just say that? So you think you're the last word on eveyrthing? Do you even play quake live?

this conversation is not about the wiki, but your misguided efforts,

There's nothing misguided about my initial argument (w/ the thought the wiki was focused on saving ql), that there are far more important things that could be done on the priority list. BUT, as i've said now for the 4th time, once the news came out by the other admin that this wiki will house info on other games, nothing more needs to be discussed so you're just beating a dead horse, probably for your own amusement.

i guess I wasted my time, you're being completely irrational and unproductive

You're not making any sense yourself. The point was discussed already. People agreed its' good for ESR, Why make something out of nothing at this point. If you need something to argue about, bring back jameiro so you guys can have 2 pages of back and forth discussion over parallel universes. Or go run for class president to keep yourself busy. I will be productive when i find a game i can believe in, i already told you that. You said yourself other games will be part of this wiki. Now if you'll excuse me i have some more game reviews to read.

also, you're being completely irrational and unproductive

see wut i did thar

"You're not making any sense yourself. The point was discussed already. People agreed its' good for ESR, Why make something out of nothing at this point."

This is the problem, you are arguing with yourself and the arguments you make up for no apparent reason. It's absolutely irrelevant whats good for ESR, or whats good for QL. It never has been, especially since I told you that it hasn't been and that the issue I'm talking about is you ignoring what people are telling you. All you've done is ignore it further and keep repeating the argument (ql wiki will not save ql) that no one argued with you to begin with. Stop being destructive by wasting time attacking windmills and innocent people and do something productive by setting some goals, and actually communicating with people in order to achieve them.

i don't even know how to reply to something like that as you're accusing me of repeating myself when i stopped talking about it after the leak came out that it would be a general gaming wiki. You're the only one bringing it up again.

As far as communciating with people for productive means. I do, when i see someone doing something productive (that is actually important enough to back). Like when prettyawesome made his videos.

You have this twisted view that everything someone does should be supported. When it comes to quake live, there are certain priorities that need to be met to save the game. I even supported citty's project of qlpickups.us at first. But i stopped supporting it when i saw him ignore abusive users like tucker and mrgreen_ who were talking down to noobs on several occasions. I've supported a lot of people in the past, including combos custom lvl map pack which i personally spent literarlly months of work into allowing people to play those custom maps on quake live. We even went so far as to take numerous images of each map and uploaded them to my site's gallery. I also worked with newbi as an administrator on his ql trickumping site. And i supported yellack's tdm maps. And i supported wyndam's secret awards list. As far as this wiki goes, i'm indifferent to it at this point for the reasons i stated. Find me someone willing to step up to fix CTF and i'll back that 100%. Go.

you're accusing me of repeating myself

Probably 90% of what you say is you repeating yourself, when nobody is talking about what you are.

when i stopped talking about it

You never stop talking about anything. Never. If you do, it will come back in another discussion. Your site being hacked will undoubtedly come up in a conversation about panda bears.

I will be productive when i find a game i can believe in

What happened to Battlefield? You spent about a dozen posts talking about how it was the future. You really have to go out of your way to miss Starcraft.

battlefield is still ok, but i'm back to modding sc2 maps. So i didn't miss sc2, i just enjoy the modding aspect of it more than playing the actual game. I don't have to play the game to believe in it. But there's a million sc2 wiki's, so i'll wait for another game i can contribute to. What are you playing right now?

Skyrim and DOTA2.

is skyrim really that good?

They both are.

[This is where raythenoob is trolled by vedic.]

Cynicism and pessimism aside, there isn't much a good player doesn't know. Maybe there is one rocket jump that one person made up and it turned out to be plausible. Maybe that's just my "elitist" ideology because what we consider good may be different. Regardless, I can appreciate the initiative you're taking to salvage a game you enjoy, a game we all love.

Cynicism and pessimism back into the picture, newbs are sailors and Quake Live is a burning ship. There aren't many options left realistically. This game is not salvageable with a wiki, a pickup channel, tutorials, video commentaries, anti-cheat, new maps or anything else. That should have been done two years ago.

There is a fundamental challenge, which is that the higher the skill level of the content, the harder it is to write down, the fewer people can actually do it.

A corollary is: the less the wiki contains, the harder it is to add (which you can reverse positively).

Anyways, this is a methodology challenge, rather than a hard coded limit. Methodology meaning we have to find the right format, the right workload distribution (one interviews, one knows, one does the video, one does writing on top), etc.

Twister's commentary videos are valuable for a big chunk of the duel demography. He - and all players at his level - could teach 99% of the community a big deal. It is a matter of finding "how".

So I don't really see your point.

The points were:

1. Good players already know what they are doing.
2. Newbs aren't going to stick around Quake Live long enough to care about any of the advanced information.
3. Everything done now will not make a difference for the community or Quake Live. You're undertaking a project on borrowed time.

Anyway, you can do what you want. Useful or useless, it's your prerogative.

Because this Wiki is required not for old players, but for those few new, who tries QuakeLive for the first time.

Ok I'll list some random section ideas.

- Quake Live This will basically describe the game etc. Has a page for every item, weapon, bot.

- Players All of the pros should have their own profile with a list of all their wins, bio, demos of their best games etc.

- Maps Have a page for every map with an image of the map top down view and side view including were all the spawns are. I can do this for all the maps ez. Maybe have a section tell you where you can hear sounds from certain locations and shit like that.

- Equipment Have a page for every mouse and keyboard etc so people looking to buy can see a detailed description of every product.

- Tournaments List all the tournaments in Quake Live so you can see the results of any tournament. Also a good way to for people to see who has won more than someone else etc.

- Tutorials A list of tutorials to help you improve anything from aiming to timing to whatever. Even have another section called "Getting Started" which will go through the settings and commands with you to optimise your quake. This will be the hardest next to getting all the maps with spawns.

- Updates Just a page which contains all the game updates etc.


I'll try and think of more shit. I can do all the maps with spawn locations for you. :D

EDIT: Didn't see your mockup image.

also all the important articles and columns like sujoy's mouse comparison for example

Heres an example of a top down view of a map. This is really rough and did it like a couple of minutes. I also used the invisibility icon for spawn locations.
EDIT: Sorry for the large size haha. Also I forgot the health bubbles in PG YA D: Anyway, this is really rough :)

memento has this nice program he used for those spawnpoint vids.
with that you could do all floors separately (bottom floor; 2nd floor added to it etc).

Ya i know, its nice. But it would be better if the user could control the view point. Maybe we can export the maps into flash or something so we can embed it and have user interaction.

It shouldn't be too difficult for 1-2 people who have good knowledge of flash or java to make a small inbound program that has the most common maps in 3d-view with the possibility to turn on/off textures, make walls solid/nonsolid and turn off/on items and spawns. If we take it to the next level you could even make a option to draw view-lines from one point to another in the map (user could set the points where he wants).

WHY REINVENT THE WHEEL?
http://www.holysh1t.net/category/tutorials/
http://www.4seasonsgaming.com/guides.php

do i need to go on?

ITS' BEEN DONE. Noobs aren't going to come to ESR for this shit. Get real. This is nothing but an attempt to elevate THIS SITE. Not, to help QL.

If you want to help QL, get the guides you just saw on quakelive.com on here:
http://www.quakelive.com/#!guide

That's where the content should go. NOT HERE ON ESR....

Thanks. I missed those links.

You don't know about 4sg gaming or holysh1t? wow....

seriously?

he was being sarcastic

i doubt it, the kid is as stiff as a board.

I agree that he is blindly going into a battle that has already been lost. But c'mon... everyone has seen those links!

he said he missed them... and i haven't seen him being remotely sarcastic anywhere else on this site. Every post he makes is 100% serious, cuz quake is serious business!

you are living up to your nick it seems

You are right on a number of topics but right now you are just plain wrong, there is nothing wrong with an encyclopedia on any subject on any website, so long as the information is true and non-biased. In the case of QL it's pretty much straightforward facts anyway.

You don't need to concentrate your verbal artillery fire on the "tutorials section" suggestions. The main purpose of the wiki is for everything else aeoL just mentioned: Quake Live Introduction, Pros Profiles, Maps Profiles, Equipment & Hardware, Tournament History and Patch History. Basically the wikipedia of Quake Live.

Information is the nucleus of humanity and your arguments are invalid.

the point is, It's been done a hundred times..4SG gaming has a wiki of sorts, holysh1t has a wiki of sorts All it does, and this is my point, is bring people to THOSE websites.

but, and this is the issue at hand.... people AREN'T going to those sites. THEY'RE NOT COMING TO ESR. They're not. They're looking for that information right on quakelive.com.

Wouldn't it make more sense to work with teh developers to institute a wiki like this RIGHT ON THEIR OWN WEBSITE?

Basically the wikipedia of Quake Live.

wikipedia of quake live on ESR, that makes sense!!!!

It seems I have suddenly been transported into a paralel universe where we actually have to give raythenoob reasons for not wasting time with the QL dev team...

hey i know they're not communicating with us, point is, you're gonna need to do a shitload of advertising to bring noobs here...

and what do you think will happen when those noobs get here?

they'll be told:

"go back to the ql forum noob"
"get better"
"stop whining"
"suggestions forum is that way"

etc, you know the story. This isn't a friendly place for noobs. Why on earth would you risk losing those players. They certainly wont' get a good impression of this site the moment they step foot in it.

think about it.

This isn't a friendly place for noobs.

THIS IS FUCKING QUAKE

By your definition, Quake = a ruthless space, devoid of compassion, designed for the hardcore gamer looking to demoralize and humiliate the new player to the genre. All for the purpose of stroking ones ego.

Yup, that's Quake Live.

isn't it?

no.

k.

inb4 a shitload of noobs interesting in reading ESR's version of a quake live wiki. I'm sure you and others will welcome them with open arms...

cough

point to one comment made on ESR by any user specifically telling a newcomer to QL to fuck off

seriously? you're seriously asking me this question? seriously dude?

I win!

last comment wins!

inb4 vedic

I have 3 tonnes of coffee and a spare keyboard just for the occasion.

chubz did too...

the thing is ray, it doesn't matter WHO looks at it. if it's there, ANYONE can look at it, even if a 12 year old ass hat wants to ask why he isnt in the wiki, his new account comments will have to be reviewed by admins anyway.

what's the big deal?

nothing anymore, the reasons for it were made clear. Its' to drive traffic to ESR. Which is fine, my whole point was, if it was meant to save quake live, it wouldn't, that's all. Carry on.

WHY REINVENT THE WHEEL?

- because community created content is good
- because centralizing information is good
- because just re-linking existing (/outdated?) content is stupid
- because a community created/maintained wiki is a good thing. you should be one of the persons to "know" we cannot rely on id
- because some people are sick of whining "id didnt do this! id didnt do that! wahwahwah" and do it the right way
- because it shows community support

But please, keep on the entertainment!

I concur

NOOBS AREN'T COMING TO ESR TO READ , what part of that don't you understand.

i have nothing against content, but placing it on randomwebsite.com is a waste of time.

Get id to place the wiki on quakelive.com and then it will make sense.

NOOBS AREN'T COMING TO ESR TO READ , what part of that don't you understand.

Can't tell... can you rephrase it?

Maybe its because I wasn't referring to that... not sure about it.

uhu, you said:

because centralizing information is good

Where do you think the majority of ql content currently resides? understand now?

And how exactly are those two statements connected?

Also, you found ESR too, not?

not hard to find out where the elites hang out. Also, do you agree the vast majority of ql content is on the ql forum or are we gonna play wordgames?

Ehm, no?

QL forums are like Quake kindergarten. Much content is on YouTube for example. Complete competition coverage is here on ESR. Much is hosted on various sites and keeps being reposted on ql.com/forum. Sure, we can go on with that, but I assume you will agree that a wiki is a better system than a forum for this.

whole point is mute now since the reasoning for the wiki was explained by demiurge; to become part of, a general gaming wiki.

but, pound for pound, the vast majority of info is still housed on the ql forum, i can't grasp how you would think otherwise. Whether it gets reposted or not doesn't matter, this isn't a copyright issue. It's an issue of sheer quantity.

Work on your grasping skills then. You should know best...

raythenoob
ql.com/forum - Total Posts: 0
esr.com - Posts: 3894

I think we all know that you're the most valuable asset to this community. So this proves that ESR has the most content, you easily get a x2 bonus with your status! And this is a matter of quantity!

Its been a while since I saw some Quake Live death evidence, could you point me to some google analytics/trends data? If we just had a Wiki where I could find it faster :-/

let id use the time to improve the game, and leave community deal with it
noobs are not coming to esr? that's a lie and anyway WHOCARES
when the wiki will be ready maybe in ql.com forum they'll say "check on esrpedia" thus noobs will come, and they'll find out there's more than public random gaming
Do you really think people notice more on ql.com homepage than the serverlist and the friendlist?
I don't think they read the news either

besides coolout, myself, fudge, lorfa, malk, kittenignition and roxolana, name anyone else....

go

like i said, they're not coming here man

Do you really think people notice more on ql.com homepage than the serverlist and the friendlist?

not at the moment because id has never put an emphasis of broadcasting major events, other than the twitter feeds on the home page. If they utlitized the space more wisely, by introducing an area for videos, what not, then a lot more could be done. It all comes down to implementing the necessary changes to get noobs to pay attention to those resources, the #guide page for example. They could easily advertise the guide page on the ql banners inside the game for a while. It just takes a little bit of effort ... it's not rocket science

I don't think they read the news either

because nothing is going on most of the time. At the current pace they're only updating the game every 3 months and the devpicks, as clever as they are, just take people from the regular servers. (just divides the playerbase).

I came to esr and got all the information I needed. I wish there was something like a wiki because it took a while to find the stuff.

NOOBS AREN'T COMING TO ESR TO READ

Yeah they rather find holyshit or 4gaming hahaha. Seriously how dumb can one person be?
Anyone who wants to improve will sooner or later find out about esr. Still a wiki would improve a lot of things. It's not like we need billions of new players but rather keep a stable player base till there is a new fps people can switch to one day without the dependence of a retarded publisher like id.
I don't want fps to be the next lol but something like the old days would be nice.
Emisexteen pretty much sumed it up what 99% of the people here think about you so I don't get it why you still hang around here. P

because ql.com is where people asks for vehicles in QL
because 4seasongaming is upside down
because holysh1t has not as many quakers on it as ESR does

oh wow can you point me to a thread where they actually ask for vehicles in QL?

http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...e-Vehicles

Have fun....

*
many more were lost when they changed forum

You mean: "messed up the backup" :p

Vehicles ftw! I want a yacht to sail around with on Troubled Waters. And a roflcopter armed with nuclear missile launcher and chainguns and other things that shoot big things that go boom when you fire them to fly around with on Longest Yard.

FUCKING LMAO

I Get real. This is nothing but an attempt to elevate THIS SITE.

Firstly, what is so bad about elevating this site?

Secondly, this site is, for the most part, the community. No one here is making any money. I've been a site admin here for almost eight years and I've not made a single penny, I don't think anyone else has either.

So what's so bad about the community writing a wiki for themselves?

So what's so bad about the community writing a wiki for themselves?

nothing. If the premise was to help ESR. But to write a 10 page book on how to save ql over the span over numerous threads and then claiming this as a first step, is disengenuous. This guide isn't a priority. It's like doing step 4 of a 5 step process. You have to start with step 1; Getting people to notice the game, and thats' done with advertising the game. And as it stands, only id can do that.

I still fail to see the disadvantage in having a proper wiki. No one is asking you to do it, so if people want to do it, why try to talk them out of it?

dont' get me wrong it's great. I've done the work in the past. I have mixed feelings about it personally because i've done the work and watched it go to waste. There's simply a small percentage of users that would truly take advantage of it.

I just think this kind of effort, a monumental one at this point, is better suited towards something that would benefit the community as a whole and i still think that emphasis/hard work should be geared towards getting new players through advertising means.

And then, more importantly getting them cut off from the troublemakers on ql where they can be mentored/coached. As it stands now, anyone entering the game is placed in virtual hell from day one. Something has to change in that regard.

The wiki idea only works when the new player has advanced beyond the stage of getting his ass handed to him in most servers. No amount of information will help him at the beginning stages as the first battle on quakelive is a social one.

Instead of getting new players to pay for maps, why not get them to pay for harbored servers away from the carnage.

anyways, again, this wiki idea seems like a wasted opportunity when that labour of love could best be served elsewhere,. As far as memento goes, he got under my skin 8 months ago when he made a whole thread about me for no reason other than to elevate his own status. This coming from a guy who doesn't even know what holysh1t tv is.

As far as memento goes, he got under my skin 8 months ago when he made a whole thread about me for no reason other than to elevate his own status. This coming from a guy who doesn't even know what holysh1t tv is.

No reason?

That thread was about asking a very annoying individual to kindly leave the place for good, and I am far from being the only one wishing that happened. One difference is that the others insult you heavily, while most of the time I'm polite with you.

About holysh1t, there is a difference between missing a link during a relatively quick search and not knowing of its existence. You seem to like precision; obey your own standards, please.

Your opinion. You dont' know shit about me, you didn't then, you still don't know now. You refuse to believe i've done more work thatn you. In your head you can't fathom the possibility. But hey, i dont' blame you, that's what happens on ESR when a person makes a thread not knowing the consequences of doing so. Now, however, you're crying like a bitch cuz i'm giving you a taste of your own medicine, and in this case, giving you the harsh reality that... I'VE ALREADY MADE A WIKI L IKE THIS. Nothing came of it, not because people didn't make use of it, but because id doesn't care. Keep pretending otherwise.

But for ESR, it's a great thing. I'm sure it will help you achieve head admin status or whatever you're gunning for. I know your kind. You want reaffirmation from others that you're doing a good job. The moment anyone criticizes your work, you go on a campaign to destroy their persona as you did when you made that thread about me. It was an assasination attempt. You had no merit to make it as the frustrations/anger i had were valid, whether you want to believe it or not.

You don't know me. You may think you do. Hell, if it wasn't for jameiro's blatant trolling, 9 out of 10 people calling him a troll makes him one in the eye of the beholder. So if 9 out of 10 people called me mental then it must be true amirite? amirite?

no.... my english is clear, my ideas are concrete and my thoughts are accompanied by proof. Prove to me that you've done anything other than talk shit about others. Prove to me that you can do a better job than i did. Maybe i'll dig my own version of a wiki out one day and put yours to shame, if for no other reason than to shut your ego up for a second. You're not god's gift to mankind. You haven't done much of anything but talk.

In the time you've created these thought provoking threads that bring ideas to the table, i made a suggestions wiki spanning 3 pages containing more than 5 million characters, made a ql forum sitemap, created 2 hosted tournaments, created a clanlists page, hosted 1000's of quake live screenshots in gallery format, designed a host of ql live wallpapers, administrated 2 ql fansites, went through every single ql forum post and organized them in 5 stickies, hosted 2 ql trickumping contests, made up a clan of over 100 people-the largest to date, all this while playing 6-8 hours of quake live a day.

That's passion. That's commitment. And that's actually DOING something to save this game. All you've done is talk, but you haven't walked the walk. Thats not an opinion either as you've had since last october to prove me wrong. Thats' why you're a fake and anyone reading this, who compares my contributions to yours, has no choice to agree, whether my contributions are gone or not (not my doing), that is reality. A reality you're not willing to deal with, because you're MEMENTO_MORI after all!

Most people might be appreciative of your "thoughts", but to me, people who actually put those thoughts into action get more respect. People like kittenignition, muffinman86 and god forbit i say it, even yakumo. You're just trying to recreate the wheel, that's all. I can tell your sole interest is to become SOMEBODY in this community. But until you do even 1/10th of what i accomplished in the span of as little as 8 months, then perhaps you'll gain my audience. But for you to talk shit about my past work like you're some kind of god everyone should bow down to is laughable.

Go ahead, flame me, make another thread about me, tell me i'm wrong. But anyone who knew the time and energy i put into this game knows i'm right, whether they want to admit it or not. Furthermore, i did it for the love of the game, you.... lol.... you're just doing it to help a gaming website.... i really hope you get that head admin status you're yearning for, maybe then you'll stop acting like such a pompous ass anytime anyone disagrees with your mission statement, but i doubt it. Your ego is too big for this place, for every brick you build, someone will be there to tear down 2 and at the rate you're going you can be assured i'll be there to put you in your place. You don't fool me dude, you're a phony.

Lmao I have read quite a lot on esr but this post beats em all.

Envy, hate, anger, justification. It got everything :D.

Even reflection - he never got admin status at ql forums, which was apparently pretty important to him, so he assumes everybody is after that "holy grail" :) I mean, how can't you be?

Having so many responses from the community about something he already did but watched go to waste must make him jelaous too - after all, if this takes off, he won't be the one praised for its existance bur rather, and which is much worse, some other dude who "insulted" him :/

cute

Hey, I do what I do to get a name for myself.

That worked out great. Everybody knows me!

BRILLIANT.

Attached Image: 85251-welles.gif (294KB)

Noobs aren't going to come to ESR for this shit. Get real.

You came.

Also it would be cool to have a Historic Matches section with demos / VODs of the greatest matches in the history of QL (and maybe Q3). As it stands now, links are spread over hundreds of threads and differend sites, it would be great to have them all in one place, maybe sortable by event / player / year similar to the demo section here.

Liquipedia has a top-category about "Competition" (players, teams, tournaments, etc). We could do the same.

Sure, Tournament History as somebody already proposed. But I'm more after an Outstanding Historical Matches section, IEM4 finals cooller rapha, dkt comeback, 5x overtime on dm13, that sort of stuff.

So you're just trying to compete with teamliquid's site.....

brilliant man....

you're a fake

Compete?

You can't compete it's not the same genre nevermind game. Inspiration is a whole different thing.

Stop, fucking, shitting on peoples' parades. Let people do things that people want to do. They don't fucking want to hear your naysaying, you're worse than the priests who sit outside church downtown saying we're all going to go to hell unless we follow 'da lord'. You apparently tried to help QL once upon a time - Great, fantastic, now let other people. They'll waste their time? Nobody gives a fuck. Nobody gives ONE SINGLE FUCK about all this fucking bullshit you post in every fucking thread, over, and over, and over a-fucking-gain.

Fuck off and let people fucking enjoy and do their own things and stop being the shitty annoying fuck that ruins every party. Holy fuck.

calm down man. Their focus is on creating content in the form of a wiki to help excentuate their site. My disagreement is with their game of choice. Quake Live won't drive any players to this site. They're already here.... To stand out, you gotta do something noone has tackled yet. When i created the suggestions compendium, clanlist , ql forum sitemap, ql links compendium, etc, it was unique to the game. Noone else had attempted it before. A wiki however, has been done before numerous times.

If the sole premise of creating a wiki is to drive traffic here, then the choice of content should be based on uniqueness and subject, not on preference.

get it?

With that said, if others were adding content for other games at the same time, that general gaming wiki would certainly hold more SEO power than one dedicated solely to quake live.

All in all, i feel his reasons for creating this wiki have changed several times in the discussion and in other threads. I know he's searching for a means to save the game, but again, this isn't the place to start. If he wants to support ESR by doing this, then fine, but it certainly won't help the overall ql community, just the few me and others have spoken about.

Anyways, you really gotta grow some skin man. Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean their opinion is void. We all have a different take on things. Don't immediately assume the worst of someone just because he's against an idea. There's always better ways to do things, that's all. And in this case, if the premise was to save quake live, there's certainly more important issues that need tending to.

going to have to [+] and agree with this

haha sync rofl..

just chillax br0, we all know that the game is dead...but how people choose to spend their free time is up to them

can't argue with that.

That's too bad, because if it weren't for that, raythenoob would be long gone.

jesus christ, you're an asshole.

its' blatantly obvious. Did you even read what he wrote? He's trying to model teamliquid's wiki. Tissue?

So? A QL version of TL would be great. Nobody gives a shit if their QL wiki is based off of an SC one. It doesn't matter, since it's not the same game. If someone copied the TL site and changed the name, that would be a problem. If someone made a QL site inspired by TL, that's perfectly fine.

I've been thinking for a long time that something like this is needed
I wish there was one for q3, so I could have read the story of the game i love, and have an idea of how it was back in the days

furthermore we've seen how much time it took to lvl^ during the dhw11 stream to find the picture about the hall of fame in quakelive
and i'm not saying anything bad about lvl^, if you ever find yourself in the middle of writing a news you need that stuff, and most of the time, you have to check EVERYTHING (lurking into pages and pages and pages) to find what you just need
So I really do think a wiki would be awesome.

And if what i've said doesn't interests to the "regular" quaker, maybe other stuff like tutorials will
how many times does people ask in irc how to set up a stream?
how many times does people ask info and help about video making?
:)


just a couple of questions...
- should it be multi-language?
- one other recurring thing is asking "who the hell is this guy playing so good???HACKER!!!" ....so... will it include the non-pro part of the scene too?

- should it be multi-language?

Why not, if people take the time to translate. Techies should know if this needs a separate wiki, or if there is something integrated for that.

- "who the hell is this guy playing so good???HACKER!!!

I haven't thought about a "cheating" section. Anyone sees cons about it?

i was not talking about a cheaters jail section

I was talking about random good players, that are not pro and not known by everyone even if they won some minor tournament or had a good placement
so the idea is: if it won't talk only about top players\teams, but will involve mid players too would be nice (just to have a history alongside the pro scene)

Oh I see. Why not!

I would like to provide the spanish version of said wiki :D

Go ahead, add a section on cheaters... just don't expect id to link to your wiki then.

i can help with the italian version

I actually had a thread ready to post last night with the same title hehe but much better done by you. I will definitely contribute.

Obviously none of this stuff is fleshed out, just a few ideas.

About Quake Live
-bla bla bla

Starting a Game
-Quake Live installation
-Basic settings
-Finding a server
-Tracking your stats and achievements

Aiming
-Choosing the right mouse
-Finding your sensitivity
-DPI and acceration
-Aim style changes with weapon
-Map based aiming methods

Movement
-Basic movement
-Air acceleration explained
-Strafe Jump
-Circle Jump
-Rocket/nade jump
-Plasma climb
-Wall clipping, Half-beat, extras

Weapons
I was thinking each weapon should have its own page with many tips and techniques as well as full details for damage, ammo, links to videos, etc.

cooller was deleted from wiki? unacceptable.

Player Profiles

Anton "cooller" Singov

-Gaming Career
-Honours
-Style of Play
-Equipment
-Config / HUD

Just a few ideas. Even if this doesn't encourage increase the playerbase, collecting all the quake knowledge from such a resourceful site as ESR would imo be worth it alone.

here's a collection of map overheads
http://www.quake-live.tv/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=237

all the creator wants is to be credited. this would be perfect for highlighting item placement and routes around the map.

We can do this ourselves easily and we don't have to credit this way. Also he didn't go high enough so its not completely isometrically flat. Like I said, I can do all the top down and side view shots with all items and spawn locations plus the variations according to gametype. I made a quick example above which took a couple of minutes. Its shit and ugly but I can easily polish it up and shit.

awesome.

Something like this would be good maybe..



Edit: Just noticed someone already posted a similar pic, oh well :)

are there any more like this?

Aiming
-Choosing the right mouse
-Finding your sensitivity
-DPI and acceration
-Aim style changes with weapon
-Map based aiming methods

Movement
-Basic movement
-Air acceleration explained
-Strafe Jump
-Circle Jump
-Rocket/nade jump
-Plasma climb
-Wall clipping, Half-beat, extras

Are you making a wiki for pros or for beginners.... Cuz other than simple strafe jumping, nothing on the legend above applies to the interest of a new player, nor one that has played 3 months. It's a more advanced wiki by the looks of it.... catering to the few....

it was just a quick spaz out in notepad. there are some strafe jump tutorials that have mathematical forumlae for the exact degrees needed to hit max acceleration. probably something along those lines would be more suitable. it's all up in the air at the mo anyway ray and when the dust settle i'm sure there will be a clearer goal.

fair enough

The wiki will contain both levels of information. We will havea number of trees, eaxh one with its own purpose/perspective. One of them is definitely focusing on learning.

aight

an all time elo ranking for official matches only would be really really great.

Mori, I've been reading/watching your work for a long time now and I think it's great. I'm not sure this post is going to come out the way I want it but I'll have a go.

I think everything you do is a bit too much on the intellectual side of things. Yes creating content is good, yes trying to organize coaching is good. The only thing is, it doesn't come naturally. You're always trying to push things from scratch, and a community in my mind just doesn't work that way I'm afraid. For anything to work it needs to have its roots within the community as a whole and not just from one person. From an outside point of view it always seems you're trying a bit too hard.

Don't get me wrong, I love Quake as much as you do. And as a newer player that has missed out on Q3, I'd like to see the game thrive many years on. But every time I see this kind of post, even though it's a great idea, it feels like Quake NEEDS to be saved. If the game had a healthy community, there wouldn't be the need for these kinds of posts. People would die to be a part of such a project, and its admins would be looked upon by the whole community.

Maybe to avoid this effect you could try to gather a team first, make a beta of the project, and then release it like qlranks did, otherwise it just feels like a project by an isolated person and is bound to failure in the eyes of the most bitter noob individuals in this community. Now I am more than willing to contriboot, on subjects such as configs (I'm a huge config nerd), moviemaking (obv) and mice.

Best regards and much love.

edit : just read the OP, being a part of ESR would really help the project get credit. WP on that
ray has mental issues

Thanks I appreciate the support and the honest words. My neurons are chewing your advice.

Sorry if it came out bad. Its what i was trying to avoid. And dont considerate it advice, I think you d know better than me when it comes to creating content. I am really excited about this project and will try to dedicate a fair amount of my insomnia to it! Thanks for everything you do (quake/circlejerk)

i disagree. therefore you have mental issues.

You disagreeing means he's doing something very right.

i have mental issues because i disagree with him? Good analogy there bud. Better hope i don't disagree with your assesment. Wouldn't want you to have to up your medications to compensate for the level of immaturity you're showing with a ridiculous statement like that.

The amount of effort you put in trying to kill a computer game on a forum read by a 100 people really shows your sanity

Wrong. I've been there and done that. Everything you're doing now i already did. Do you even know the amount of time and energy i put into this game? id doesn't give a shit about any of us dude. I referred to icey_pain for a reason, and there's loads of others like him. Wobbo, rexcramer, etc. They all put in months worth of suggestions, etc to help the game. But guess what, id didn't listen. Syncerror's ideas are non-negotiable, and so is the path the game is on. id is under strict order from the mothership.

No amount of work will change that now. And in the end, lots of people's efforts will go unheard. I'm truly saving memento a lot of hardship in the years to come. If you took the time to look around, you'll notice a lot of those past contributors have moved on. There's a reason for that.

oh and, in the words of vedic, you can't kill something that is already dead. Seriously....

The people here might actually create something worthwhile, though.

People would die to be a part of such a project, and its admins would be looked upon by the whole community

if you want praise from id, it's not going to happen.

what? :D

i didn't realize id wasn't part of the community. What community are they in then? laff

I never ment id... You're the only one in this forum who does. Most of us have understood that we are pretty much on our own. There's no money left for ql and they are letting it die. So better get to work.

There's no money left for ql and they are letting it die. So better get to work

better get to work? on what? a dead game? can you make any less sense? How can a game, with no modding community, with no substantial userbase have any chance of success when q3 has every opportunity to grow once people return to it. Quake lvie was an experiment, a litmus test if you will, and dedicated mapmakers can make use of that data and model their map/mod to model the positives that ql brought to the table. In other words, they can improve on q3 by doing what worked in ql.

But conversely, what can be built upon in ql? You can't make user created content, maps, etc. You can't play in lans without id's support and you can't alter the sourcecode to reflect , to ones imagination, the type of game you want to play. It is, however, all possible in q3.

Just seems like q3 is the viable replacement choice for those looking for a future in quake. Tell me where i'm wrong.

You can't get a community to go back to an older version of any game. Never worked, never will.

recent stuff by the community :

qlranks
qlprism
qlstats
qldt
wolfcam

The list goes on. Maybe this will be a worth addition

we should make some big fat feature links somewhere on the bones of this site, since i constantly forget the names of these projects.

maybe someone replace the esr-bettings :<

would atleast draw the impression that there are still things happening and been worked on, and for dementia dudes like mey

spent some time pulling QL threads from ESR. the Q3 forum remains untouched. thinking it would be a good reference point to begin adding things. it also would be nice if pages could be discussed in the forums as they are added to the wiki.

hardware
Expensive mouses. Why?
ESReality MouseScore 2007
crt or lcd?

settings
Quake Live config collection
Your Quake Live Mouse Settings
What sense dpi etc. do you use?
ESWC 2010 Sens, Accel and DPI Thread
FOV 90
cl_timeNudge - is it worth to be used?
Sens/accel with different fovs
Accel users...help/advice?

strategy
Basic Timing Guide
How to aim?
Accuracy model and aiming

players
Quake Live Earnings
Noctis vs Rapha analysis
Cooller vs Cypher Analysis - By twist3r
ESL Classics: Rapha vs. Cooller
ESL Classics: Cooller vs. rapha

maps
Quakelive maps names & levelshot
TDM Map Statistics
QUAKE LIVE Spawn System and Spawn Points
Quake Live CTF Fast Caps

movement
clipping ledges
LG/MG- dodging
Dodge experience
QL Dodging in Clan Arena

weapons
shaft cross
LG battles
Strenx vs. Toxjq LG battle...
Rail settings

how to become a pro by losty

very useful..... for bichito ....

You should ask the authors permission to use that info on the wiki, then, if the forum gets deleted again (like they did with the old forum) the info won't be lost again..

i'm not sure anything posted on ESR needs permission to be used, especially when it still remains onsite? courtesy is of course a nice thing.

ESR doesn't own the content. Copyright doesn't work that way...

But yes, if the info is just moved to a wiki onsite (on esr), than it probably wouldn't even be noticed by those people in the first place. I actually misread what you wrote, and thought the ilinks came from the ql forum, disregard

I disagree with most of what ray is saying about this being a waste of time, but he is correct on one point: This would definitely serve its purpose best if it were part of the QL website. Has anyone actually contacted any members of the QL dev team for getting a community-moderated wiki on the QL site?

MM, you definitely have a history of making up resources for the community, you'd probably be the best candidate to ask. Perhaps even submit a mock resume of the things you've done on ESR as far as resources go (perhaps professional aspects as well outside of QL).

Don't get me wrong, if it can't be on the QL website, I absolutely think it should still be implemented in any case, but ray is definitely correct that it will be orders of magnitude more useful on the QL website.

I think you just nailed the major issue with identity we have, which can't be solved today nor tomorrow.

At the moment ESR demography looks like this:
- undeground trolls & spammers.
- average/good players.
- seldom appearances of pro / top players.
- almost no noobs.

The QL.com demography is rather:
- mostly noobs.
- a few better players.

The dilemma is the following:

The wiki has as main purpose to help noobs, but needs to be at a busy place and with good players and to grow healthy.

To this you add these observations:
- a lot of people on ESR are snobbish about QL.com . I made a post in the subscribers forum about this issue (link).
- A lot of people in ESR (myself included) think that having a site completely run by the community is better than one run by the developer (which is a much less dynamical entitiy even when it is not id Software).
- From what I can see in the counters displays, ESR has much more viewers.

So where do you put it?

If you put it on ESR no noobs will read it.

But if you put it on QL.com less people will contribute to it, making it more likely to be another failed attempt (see links in the op).

The better players will be helping noobs with esr wiki links to solve problems. It could spread that way.

put in on esreality, so "we" have control over it and not id.

just create a thread in quakelive.com/forums

bah I'm the only noob on ESR...

Please don't do stupid shit like add a single page dedicated to a gun. At that point you might as well make a page for an armor shard.

Keep the wiki basic and clean. Minimal amount of pages for the main content and game info. I don't want a link dictionary full of stubs.

Why not, as long as there is useful information in it? You think people need a tl;dr for Quake?

I don't want to be clicking links all day to find the information I want, when it could be all neatly put on one. Some of the other wikis do this horribly.

You put all relevant information on one page, and then detailed information on another. What's the problem with that?

I'll give you an example of what I mean.
http://quakelive.wikia.com/wiki/Railgun
There's a better way to do that.

Why not edit it yourself?

Because some guy is gonna come in and make it gay again.

Edit: Wikis need those anal people that delete pages of cooller. Without them wikis can't work. I'm not a nerd virgin enough to be that for a Quake Live wiki

That excuse is why the wiki is in the shape that it is in right now. If everyone expects other people to edit the wiki, nobody is actually going to do the work.

I don't want to edit those cause they've had shitty work put into it already. When you start a website, and put no effort in it, you're a jerk. Once someone actually spends the time to start a good one, I will contribute.

Once someone actually spends the time to start a good one, I will contribute.

If you're willing to put that time into the content, why didn't you put that time into starting a good one on your own? You're holding the same position that everyone else is holding, and that is why nothing ever happens.

He's just saying he needs some "warranty" that this won't flop straight from the beginning. A reliable leader, perhaps.

We don't have anything like that.

p0rt is banned?

I have other things that occupy me at this time. Starting a project like that, you need to spend time on it... or like I said, it will be shit.

You, and everyone else.

I have spare time, I use it for other things. Someone might want to use it to make a wiki, idfk.

Someone hasn't.

Well there is a lot more that could be mentioned on there to help.

Techniques and examples for them.

How the netcode reacts when using it.

as simple examples

With the risk of being repetitive, Liquipedia sets an excellent standard in my eyes, and they seem to agree with you.

Yeah, I think making standards early on will benefit it. I'm not much of a wiki editor myself, but I tried to clean up the warsow one before one of the devs though I was spaming and banned me from it.

i realise there's only so much you can say about say the sg or gl but for other weapons like lg and rl there are plenty of advanced techniques that should be covered. perhaps creating a link to advanced weapon strategies would be more appropriate. after all, if you keep the information too basic then what's the point in even using ESR as a resource?

See that's the thing. I don't want to just read about RL strategy, or LG. I want to have one page, with all of it. Also guides and such should be separate from factual information.

Just have a single page called "Weapons" under the basic information section and all of the weapons can be on one page.

There is a SEO-advantage in having separate pages for each weapon.

How many people organically type into google phrases like, "Quake Live Plasma Gun" etc. I reckon it's more accessible and simplified if its all on one page. Of course they can be mentioned on other pages for indepth strategy on use.

Even if it is just one per month there are 11 other weapons they can search for as well with an (almost) infinite amount of search combinations.

If you wanted to know the LG damage, wouldn't you do a similar search? Especially if you want indepth strategies of each weapon you need a separate page regardless.

That's not saying there shouldn't be a common "weapons" page with some basic information.

The more pages with more categorised content and more cross-links, the better. It's why even the shittiest wiki can appear on the first page of google results.

ah, so you're doing it for SEO purposes. I bet you anything the SEO value of a starcraft 2 wiki will impact this site 3x as much.

ah, so you're doing it for SEO purposes. I bet you anything the SEO value of a starcraft 2 wiki will impact this site 3x as much.

I'm not doing anything relating to this.

Not sure you understand what SEO means, it means to optimize the content for search engines. Dividing it into dedicated pages for each weapon is a way to optimize it for search phrases related to the weapons. Making a SC2 wiki isn't SEO, that's making an entirely different site. You are confusing SEO with content creation.

However, if you want to add a SC2 wiki as well I think that is very commendable of you and I am looking forward to seeing the results.

Not sure you understand what SEO means, it means to optimize the content for search engines.

Not confusing anything; i have a degree in marketing and website design. Doing it for SEO purposes = doing it to optimize the site and raise ESR's search ranking.. A wiki would do that, although i would have suggested using joomla instead.since a wiki page normally has too much text and too many links. In that respect i suggest keeping the pages somewhat short and relying on the legend to bring people to the right page. Also, creating a number of backlinks on other sites linking back to ESR will greatly help with SEO. I'm sure its' part of the plan though...

However, if you want to add a SC2 wiki as well I think that is very commendable of you and I am looking forward to seeing the results.

i dont' think i'd attempt one for sc2, vedic is certainly more knowledgeable in that respect, since i spend more time modding maps than playing the game, but if a game ever comes out that i feel has staying power then i'll be the first to create a page for it. I have no problems doing that so long as i believe in the game and morevoer the developers, its' one reason why i've resisted temptation to recreate my past stickies since i have no faith in syncerror and sponge.

p.s: Does ESR have a sitemap? .... that seems to be your number one issue at the moment. If you want ESR in 2nd position on page 1 of google for the search term quake live, then i would start with a sitemap. Dont underestimate the importance of that. I could help in that department if you had a search function allowing people to look up posts with keywords.... thats' priority #2..... You already have plenty of content on this site. It's just not organized. A sitemap and a proper search function will help tons in the SEO department.

That's not how you do it.

Mind to expand?

Great idea! Thumbs up: I would love to have a compendium of all existing Wikis here ^_____^

Discussion about the value aside, ESR does not seem the place for this. There are only a few hundred people who visit this site, and how many of them do you see who actually post? Maybe a few dozen. While this site is primarily Quake in content, it's still a niche of QL players.

I guess you want to attract more people to this site, but that would really only be possible when the game first came out. Does id even link to ESR at all? I think they've distanced themselves since the fiasco with Sync. You'd have a much better chance at getting support from id by having it stand alone, or by having it directly on the QL site.

Finally, this is supposed to be a general gaming site, so will this be a general gaming wiki? If not, it's not really appropriate.

Even if this is a general gaming site it can still have a section for QL. http://wiki.esreality.com would have general information which directs to the different sections, such as site info and QL, then you have wiki.esreality.com/QL/weapons etc for the QL-stuff.

I didn't say no wiki at all, just that it should be a general gaming wiki. A QL section is fine.

Not sure if it satisfies you, but I sort of answered here.

About ESR being a general gaming site, there is nothing that prevents one from adding wikies of other games.

Why not keep it off of both? This way, you avoid the drama/stigma attached to ESR, and you don't have to worry about being attached to the main QL site. There are many big wikis that work out of services like wikia, and you could merely promote them on both sites. As you mentioned, there are already QL wikis that exist, so most of the work is already done.

I assume we are not talking about where the wiki is hosted, but rather how it presents itself (standalone vs part of ESR), right?

I can't answer you better than I already did. I just feel ESR would become a better place a wiki, and a wiki would benefit greatly from having ESR userbase "one click away". Make it standalone, and many less people will flow into it.

Hosting it is partly an issue, simply because of the problems you already stated - ESR users don't need a wiki. I don't see why you think that people won't contribute to it on QL, but if you feel that it would be that bad, then clearly the option of a third-party wiki makes the most sense.

The bad apples on ESR aren't going to go away because you made a wiki, and if people come for the wiki, they're likely going to end up using the forum. Yeah, there are new moderation policies in place, but they really only stopped some of the really bad trolls. This still isn't a Quake site, and without heavy moderation and conversion to a Quake only site, there's no way that you're going to improve the situation.

It would probably be easier to make an entirely new site. If you really want to put this much time into it, why not go that far? Team Liquid didn't start out as the biggest SC site, and you can do the same thing, if there's really a market for it. Additionally, all the features that you want ESR to have, you can simply add yourself. Stream info, wiki, forum, schedule, rankings, etc.. Even if you wanted all of those features on ESR (and don't hold your breath), how could they be properly implemented without forcing the site to be specifically for Quake?

It would probably be easier to make an entirely new site. If you really want to put this much time into it, why not go that far? Team Liquid didn't start out as the biggest SC site, and you can do the same thing, if there's really a market for it.

It is true that TL didn't start out as the biggest SC site, it took ten years to reach that stage with countless of hours of work. So why go through all that trouble when ESR is already here and you can just add a wiki to it?

Starting a site from scratch and making a site popular is hardly an easy task, if everyone could do it, everyone would be an internet millionaire.

So why go through all that trouble when ESR is already here and you can just add a wiki to it?

The work to change ESR into what he wants is almost the same as starting from scratch. Some of the things he wants may never even happen here, even if Quake was popular enough to justify it.

Well, seems like he just wants to add a wiki (for now), one step at a time. And I do think ESR can be changed more than perhaps some people realize.

Just a wiki doesn't do anything, and this site doesn't have the reach or community to make use of it. However, in his column that he just wrote, he said:

- Improve ESR, both as what the site features and how the people use it. There have been discussions about this, and hopefully this gets expanded in the comments. My take is that this place could look and feel much better.

If these kinds of changes/features are possible, why have they not been done? There's obviously nobody qualified to make such changes, and probably some question of authority for doing so. These aren't things that are just now being requested/discussed, the community has been requesting/discussing them for years.

He said it is a priority to improve ESR and I agree with him.

As for the site being changed, some wheels are set in motion and we'll see how it turns out.

Why are they just being "set in motion" right now? Why has the community heard nothing about it? This is hardly the place to take after id.

Are there details, or is this somewhat of an empty post?

All in due time.

Sounds great, will there be a devblog post? or is the lack of transparancy ala quake live's communication policy, going to duplicate itself here?

This very thread by Memento_Mori is an good example of a planned addition.

As for transparency otherwise, I agree that things should be quite transparent, once things are likely to happen. As otherwise you may just disappoint people.

It's like when a gaming company announces all the features a game will have and then you just end up with half of those in the finished game. It is bound to make people disappointed.

However, ESReality is hardly a gaming company. The only reasons some are admins and some are not is because they at some point contributed a lot to the site (and werent too abusive) or they had to have admin status in order to do something. Everyone of the admins do what they do because they like it, there is no money involved.

It's not that complicated. This wiki for example, Memento_Mori made a suggestion in the admin forum about adding a wiki and asked what people thought and especially if it was possible to add one. People liked the idea and it seemed possible to add so right the day after he made a post here to get a broader view of what people (the community) thought.

once things are likely to happen. As otherwise you may just disappoint people.

makes sense. I'll be honest, this site has a lot of potential, but it really should branch out to other games at this point. But as it appears, that is already part of the plan. Will give you guys a lot more exposure. One of the games you should consider making a subforum for, is teamfortress. This site isn't owned by id after all.

I agree completely that the site should embrace other games as well.

I made a post of what I think is wrong with the site and that is definitely one of the main issues.

http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&...pid2174006

"ESR users dont need a wiki."

This is so elitist it isnt even funny. Let's face it. Most of us on here are nowhere near as good as we CAN be. Anyone who isn't in the top 20 in their respective regions (NA/Europe/Oceania whatever) is mostly just playing rinse and repeat basic strategies which are easily realized as flawed with some minimum thought put in. So claiming we all know enough about the game to not need a wiki is stupid.

Look at the response that twister's videos got. It's all pretty obvious stuff once you sit down and think about the game. BUT WE DON"T, which is why we appreciated his work so much.

Yes the basic shit in the wiki will be fairly useless to most people here. But who says we have to restrict the wiki to basic articles describing the game? Nothing stops us from adding advanced tutorials and videos etc. And having a central archive of those will I think be of immense value to any serious student of the game.

This is so elitist it isnt even funny. Let's face it. Most of us on here are nowhere near as good as we CAN be.

I was mostly just agreeing with what he said, when he said, "If you put it on ESR no noobs will read it."

So there are people here who aren't all that great - and? Will a wiki fix that? You do know that it's going to be written by the very same people who have been here for years, so you're not going to get anything from it that you don't already know.

Why do you need a wiki for advanced tutorials? The game has been out for more than a decade. There are already several Quake wikis, and this isn't even the first time that stuff like this has been discussed on this site. Nobody wants to do it. People will spend hours writing a post why other people need to make guides and videos, but they'll never actually do it themselves.

I expect this wiki to be much the same. A lot of work on a wiki, but no work on the actual content. Maybe the content should be done before the wiki, so it isn't such an obvious waste of time.

I think there's always value for a wiki simply because it organizes the relevant information on a topic in a nice and easy to use way (hopefully). Even if all this wiki does is bring together all the articles and information out there about q3/ql, it will still be of value as long as they organize it well.

Will there be good new content? Dunno. I think we are beginning to see a lot of people realize that keeping quake alive and active is going to be up to the community. And we are seeing some small signs of a few members step up and try to produce content. And I think it's important we try and get some inertia for that and keep it centralized so it doesn't die out. You can of course be negative and say we've seen it before and nothing good will come out of it. That's personal preference.

I am however skeptical of the whole "maybe the wiki will make esr better" approach. Don't see that happening. However since we are unlikely to see something like this integrated into ql.com itself (which is really where it should be, so i have to throw a "fuck you" id in here), might as well do it on esr.

so i have to throw a "fuck you" id in here

it's sponge and syncerror specifically who aren't willing to step up to the plate. Instead they'd rather play red orchestra on their time off. I wonder if bill gates ever took the weekend off when he started microsoft. I think not. Hard work pays off though... i guess we can see why ql hasn't delivered now.

Why should they spend all their free time doing ql? And comparing quake live to Microsoft....

There are already Quake wikis, though. This isn't new, it's just new for ESR.

Why not create a wiki for starcraft 2 then, which has ultimately the larger userbase and a 99% chance of surviving another 10 years. Can you say the same for quake live? i think not. You can see a plethora of wikis like that on old quake 2 / 4 sites. Hell port's mod is another example of wasted time.

Either way, as vedic prompty stated, id has already distanced themselves from this troll infested site. Placing anything here, in hopes it will become some sort of permanent redirected link from their website is a far fetched dream.

Moreover, endorsing your wiki would require control of the content. it's in their best interest to ensure the public doesn't get misinformation about their game. Therefore, anyone with admin status would need to be verified by id as reputable, knowledgeable and reliable. Last thing they want is a repeat of the scandal on wikipedia of late, where information was false, deleted and distorted. While its' possible, they don't have the time or resourcs to waste time administrating a wiki. This is painfully obvious since they don't even have time administrating their own servers.

But as i've said, i've done it before. My wiki was a sticky on their forum. It was 5 posts long and it was never utilitzed by id. All before my falling out with them. Hell they didn't even make use of the sitemap i created for them.

If you are going to follow through with it at this point, follow losty's model and cater to the "wannabe pro players". That would coincide with the userbase of this site. But to make a wiki for new players, who don't visit this site is a waste of time.

there are links to ESR on ql main site quite often, latest being the DH coverage post

a few hundred? 19:21 EET - 543 users online

That's peak users for this site. =X

yeah and? 550 concurrent users means there are more than a 'few hundred who visit this site' in total

http://www.esreality.com/?a=online

and? whats your point? that the big portion of users dont register or?

There are apparently more anonymous users online than the total number of users online. The user count has has numerous problems in the past, and it's obviously still not working properly. I believe the problem before was that it kept people considered "logged in" long after they had quit. Additionally, it's likely counting webcrawlers and bots.

the number cannot be so much off that it would total to a 'few hundred visitors' in total

There are just under 200 registered members online, 700 apparent anonymous members, and the total says 500. A lot of activity also comes from google image results, though the site summary seems to be bugged right now.

do you always have to get the last word in or was your post there just to further prove that your initial post was blatantly wrong?

... I just proved to you that the numbers were wrong, and you still want to disagree?

so is this just a coincidence or might it be that "users online" only counts people that are not logged in and the anonymous is the real "users online"? or just subtraction/addition mixed up? aswell as users that log off both count as anonymous and logged in for 1hour?

This isn't the first time it's been bugged. There was a time when the site kept crashing because it didn't consider people "logged out", even after they left, and the user count ballooned up until a crash. They probably did a quick fix for the old issue, and it's producing these results.

There were times I wanted to check the MG damage in different modes (TDM, CTF) but I couldn't find the info anywhere so I ended up asking on forums. Quake Live Wiki would be helpful indeed

haha. Good luck with that. There is already 5 QLwikis.

They all suck because the people that started them don't know how to write for wikis.

http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...Duel-Guide

I think that somebody should just set up a wiki somewhere and the whole thing will start to organize itself - discussing ideas is ok, but I think just doing it and improving it over time is time better spent.

I don't know if the esr portal has all functionality needed for a modern wiki, I can take it upon myself to set up one, but I think somebody better known and respected should do it.

I think a free wiki hosting setup is the way to go - there is no point in setting up and administering a server, installing updates, checking logs etc.

It's easy enough to just add the wikimedia one.

a bit of planning now can save days or weeks of work in the future

Will it contain a page for caught cheaters? :>

should have with all information known about them wether it be pictures, irl addresses, phone numbers, facebook links etc

:D

Ofc. this is important. With all possible fakenicks they use :>.

I hope you are joking :o

No not at all. Do you know that the USA and UK have websites where they post all the information about pedophiles and rapists and make it open for the public. I'm talking full names, adress, profession, current workplace, phonenumber and even pictures. That's what Quake community needs right now for cheaters (and not only quake, the whole gaming and eSports community needs it).

Oh yeah because Brits and Americans are known for their wisdom and we should certainly follow their example.
You know that London has probably the biggest camera surveillance system and yet it doesn't prevent people from thieving, raping etc.
The only thing you achieve with adding cheaters to the wiki is abuse. Guess how many will go and add people on their own because they got raped on a pub server and can't deal with it.
There is just no need for it as cought cheaters get banned and won't be able to play under the known alias. Hence I don't even get it why someone gets even the idea but coming from you and the hater above I'm not really surprised :x

For you, I hope someone adds a page about "irony".

Well wtfproof is usually dead serious but w/e.

I was referring to "the hater above" but nvm.

a blacklist in a wiki? Doing that will ensure id's refusal to cooperate.

Might sound weird but, why not start a "serious" ql community website and let esr be esr? Even with all the nazi mods in the world, in 10 years I'll still remember esr as the 80% trollfest 20% valuable info quakers infested website.


Having people hang around 2 different websites and keep their mouth shut on the other one seems the best solution to me.

you'd be better off making a wiki for Q3 because QL won't be around much longer.

just make it for both, including cpm, ra3 and everything in between

I think the structure should be similar to the wiki at quakeworld.nu

http://wiki.quakeworld.nu/Overview

Perhaps include both Q3 and QuakeLive info in the same wiki.

Ya I reckon it's a good idea to add in all the quake 3 tourament wins etc. Could do it like how liquidpedia has SC1 and SC2. At any rate QL would be first priority.

How one can help you with this project?

It's a wiki, anyone can help by adding articles :)

Drawing out the ground plans and setting up the wiki software must be done first before any of that.

Yes basically this. The software will be up in the next days, no precise eta, as it depends on other things happening first.

Atm there is a googledoc created by EmSixTeen with a skelton of the wiki. If someone wants to put some energy in it, send an IM.

Once things are up, there will be ton of work to fill the pages. For that we will need everybody.

Sounds pretty neat, I'd like a wiki which just combines QL and Q3 since they're both pretty similar - so as long as it's not just information for "pro" players but just a general all-around site discussing community events and not putting any bias on either competitive or casual. Thing I always hated about most Q3 / QL sites is their tendency to lean towards the competitive side...

Very good.

I propose CC-BY-SA as a license.

Furthermore a way to dump the wiki database for an ordinary user is important.

This won´t save quakelive.
Do a Q3 guide instead, we will be playing it soon.

yezzur!

as i posted somewhere in this mess, let's make the most recent approaches of communityprojects more present, like replacing it with the betting feature top right. this will draw more attention and possibly more contributers to the projects.

dear esr-staff, is that somewhat possible?

betting feature is not as alive as before :(

Great idea! I will jump in to the discussion tomorow.

i would ban ray from this wiki

+1

aw? i'm all sad now

If it's not been mentioned already. Something along the lines of what 2GD wanted to do would be good too. (Youtube Instructional videos)

It would be really really good if this wiki isnt just all articles. Focus more on videos. I know its harder to produce videos but they have so much more value than bland articles. (coming from a tech grad student that should tell you something).

Quake live wikipedias

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_Live
2. http://quakelive.wikia.com/wiki/Quake_Live_Wiki
3. http://quakelive.wikispaces.com/
4. http://wikiwiki.jp/quakelive/
5. http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Quake_Live
6. http://www.wegame.com/games/quake_live/
7. http://www.computerhilfe.alegro-sandermann.de/
8. http://www.quakelive-wiki.de/
9. http://newbcomputerbuild.com/wiki/Quake_Live
10. http://wiki.quakelive.fr/index.php/Accueil
11. http://www.holysh1t.net/category/tutorials/
12. http://www.4seasonsgaming.com/guides.php
13. http://bunkerwiki.aaxxss.com/index.php/Quake_Live
14. http://www.rice.dreab.com/p-Quake_Live
15. http://wiki.quakelive.fr/index.php/Outils
16. http://wapedia.mobi/en/Quake_Live

to name a few...

those have hardly any content. and cant you see the difference between a concentrated effort from a gathering of mid-highish skill players from ESR making one compared to some solo nub from QL forums?

... they are wikis. If you (or anyone else) wanted to add content, you can. Nobody does, though.

yeah excactly. a wiki is useless unless you have people with knowledge to fill them. this is what seems to be different about this wiki compared to others

Why? What has been stopping ESR users from contributing content?

how should i know? snob attitude towards nubs maybe and not wanting to take part in something thats not 'ours'? just because i dont know the reason for it doesnt mean anything. this thread seems to be full of people who seem to be motivated to help

just because i dont know the reason for it doesnt mean anything. this thread seems to be full of people who seem to be motivated to help

You don't know the reason for it, and you don't have a reason why you think that this time will be any different. This isn't the first thread like this - Memento_Mori has made threads much like this one many times, and there are always people who talk about how much they want to help out, and how things need to be done. It just never happens.

lol wut?

i didn't list them for any particular reason but since you replied, here are my answers

cant you see the difference between a concentrated effort from a gathering of mid-highish skill players

uh, ok? There are wikis concentrated on the general aspects of the game and this one. In other words if ESR wants to do one for high skilled players as you're hinting towards, then go ahead. I could care less. Was just listing the other wikis on the internetz

those have hardly any content.

uhu, say that about the japanese version with a straight face. But i get what your'e saying, ESR"S will be the best because all the pros are here!! ZOMG they gonna pwnzers all the other wiki's like for realz yo. rofl.

actually fuck whatever reasons you may have for the post - having a list of these wikis collected is useful to the project. good work.

Wrong thread D:

what would you guys think about something like this http://i.imgur.com/cLgJC.jpg going on each pro players profile along with a recent cfg download link? i think it'd be pretty cool. unnecessary but cool

e: i'd be willing to make a much cleaner, better looking version for all of them if it is wanted

unnecessary but definitely cool. i've looked through configs and tried to envision for example how the fuck tox is able to play, resting my fingers on the keys as i read his bindings. your method makes that process quicker and more naturual imo. so maybe not entirely unnecessary.

cool! yeah if they're wanted i'd be more than happy to get to all of them and do them properly eventually.

Yup, quite cool!

http://wiki.quakeworld.nu/Overview

Hurry up and make this already! my fingers are aching to pour my extensive knowledge into a site.

Please?

You don't have to reply to every comment raythenoob makes.

I did in that other thread, because I was trying to make a point. The only problem is, I doubt anybody will see it.

I'm eager to start as well. As said it is out of my hands atm, but it should happen somewhen soon.

why do you wear swiss flag dude???

Cuz he lives there and I think his nationality is Swiss as well.

Yup

i thought you were italian and tbh i am disapointed to know you are Swiss. Are you from the french talking Swiss?

I come prom Ticino, which is the italian speaking region, very close to Milan. I grew up playin within the italian community. My father comes fro Genova, so you can be just 50% disappointed ;)

Something against Swiss people? They are nice friendly and very polite unlike the Germans I have to deal with every day (except for my friends). If I had to choose between Germany and Switzerland I would choose Switzerland every time.

well, like i said, you an start dumping text into the thread, just like the layout (but in text form), which I think looks good.

add console stuff!
The QUAKE LIVE Console Guide | 3rd Edition
http://poutred.crew.free.fr/sharpe/console3.htm

(or at least, link it)

updated

http://www.regurge.at/ql/

The real problem is that Memento_Mori's dad manipulated him, but Memento seems oblivious????

Added link to structure draft in the op.

looks good!

Hey Mori, how did you make the 3d models of maps for your spawn location videos? If you're able to export standard maps to some kind of standard 3d model format, I wonder if we can find some kind of easy/free library in either java or flash, so you could have interactive 3d models of maps. The top down shots people are making are useful, but with multi-level / multi-layered maps, it can be confusing. Let me know how you made the models you used for your vids, and I'll look into making interactive 3d models on a web page.

I converted them to .obj, and then imported them in deep exploration, which I also used for redering, layering etc.

The map are now in .ase format, and we can convert them in anything we like to. Keeping the texture info though might be tricky.

Integrating them in the wiki somehow would be pretty damn cool! [+]

Any ETA on when this is going live?

When the QL site shuts down, the amazing QL wiki to change the world will be up.

The wiki is up. See this.

Now I can see why Jamerio isn't banned yet.

go for it man

anyone maintaining this? :D