Maybe its because in duel you have to work damn hard for your toys, health and armour so maybe duelers think CA players are like spoiled rich kids who jump around all day on their brand new bouncy castle. I don't know.

best part is when you play smart and they start flamming you for what a pussy you are and why you dont have the balls to meet them in the middle of the map and shaft like a real man...rofl @ ca

Haha I bet your are one of those who can't aim for shit hence they are spamming grens and +back rail/rj around the map 24/7. The best part is you call it smart to "outplay" someone who just wants to shoot while listening to music :D.
I really love duel but I just can't stand duel "behaviour" in ca and I usually quit if I have to watch those aimless last man standing guys every fucking round with 200/100 for a couple of minutes.

well r1ddler can aim, but nonetheless I agree 100% with your sentiments here

yeah so fucking true, CA is there for +forward and music. i've basicly given up on it a long time ago since over half the playerbase treat it like CPL fnals

lol

haha, i know what you mean.

i get so annoyed when i join and they say "go spec, its 4vs3"

as if it makes a difference, you're gonna play practically the same way anyway, whether you win or lose...

whats wrong with wanting an even game, regardless if it is serious or not? it's no fun for either team to play 4v3. people that join a 3v3 and keep playing even when the rest of the game wants them to wait are assholes.

Not the dueler's fault you're a big crybaby of a bitch who can't see QL for what it is and play something else instead of being a big, whiny cockgobbler about it. Not the dueler's fault that QL, let alone QLCA, sucks so fucking bad that it's corrupted anyone who plays it regularly into actually thinking it has more than zero redeeming qualities.

Best part is remembering that the main reason you play that way against people who are too stupid not to outaim in any other game is because QL is so fucking broken that these kids' missed rails keep hitting while all your shit goes right through them. lol@QL.

camp more pillars shitnub

Tier 1 dueler > Tier 1 CA player in a CA game.
Tier 2 dueler > Tier 2 CA player in a CA game.
Tier 3 dueler > Tier 3 CA player in a CA game.
Tier 4 dueler > Tier 4 CA player in a CA game.

Tier 1 dueler > Tier 1 CA player in a duel.
Tier 2 dueler > Tier 2 CA player in a duel.
Tier 3 dueler > Tier 3 CA player in a duel.
Tier 4 dueler > Tier 4 CA player in a duel.

Not really. Most of the time people play a team based game first and then switch to duel. Not the other way.

I stated which player would be better lol.

Yeah i kinda wrote bad what i wanted to say. What i wanted to say is that every dueller has a CA/CTF/FFA/TDM experience. So it kinda goes together. I think its true for tier 4 (top skill/semi pro) and sometimes for 3 cuz aim and other duel aspect come together but for lesser skilled player a tier 2 caer will beat a tier 2 dueller since its all about aim.


(poor syntax and grammar VIVE LE FRANCAIS)

I started with duels only. Moved into ctf later on. I think the duel concept is easier to grasp and there's less action going on.
I started with a friend on an equal level though. Had some more more friends who taught me the basic movements and so on..

I started duels too.

thats not what he ment/said

I don't think there's anything magical about duel, it's just that it tends to attract the better players. If you had two equivalent players practicing against equally good opponents, the guy who played only CA would own at CA against the guy who played only Duel.

i wouldn't consider myself a dueler but i'll beat most t4 duelers in ca

You've beat boots, demex, kgb, id_, k1llsen, fox, etc. in a CA match?

Anyways, screenshots?

Do you have any idea what you're talking about, Fudge911? erok would (and has) destroyed everyone of the players you listed in CA, with the exception of demex - who's also primarily a CA player to boot.

With regards to duelers always being better in CA: http://i.imgur.com/JGvR9.jpg

Edit: Way to edit your post, you ginger... funny thing is, erok would still trash id_

AMPHI IS MEANT FOR DUEL ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED

amphi is better in CA than in duel actually.

in duel it s all about spawn raping @ lava

thats like, the essence of amphi :/

still sucks tho

f2

I beat cha1n once in a duel. =)

congrats??

me too...not that difficult

/put cha1n s, is that how you beat him?

nope, just out-thought him on DM13. it helped too that he underestimated me.

Fudge, how would you really have any idea? You're tier 1 in both modes AT BEST...please. Erok is far better than all of those players besides demex...nt though

You're talking about averages here: people like erok would be added with people like me (20% accuracy).
Whereas the average dueler is better than the average CA player, because there are less noobs to average in.

only demex can probably beat erok, rest ez.

have you actually seen fox play ca?

fox is an all around player, he can play everything and still be successful at it

he's a good dueler, tdmer, caer and i guess that he knows how to play ctf properly...

fudge911 edited the text to replace some NA player names to k1llsen fox etc after I made my comment. Originally it had listed high-mid level players such as gillz etc. No I have no doubt in my mind that fox would rape 99.999999% of quake playing population in CA. I have seen k1llsen play CA and he is more beastly in that than duel.

yet killsen isn't as beasty at ca clanwars than at pub ca

ah right ye thought so ;P

not considering urself a dueler is not the same as being a bad dueler. i suspect ud be just as good at duel if u put the time in. (this is also another way of saying most of the tier 4 duelers arent really all that good).

yeah thats probably true, duel just pisses me off too much to put in time...i'd much rather play ca or tdm :P

that would allow saying

duel tier 1 > ca tier 4

Im not a dueller but i think its because CA is an Aim/team based game (mostly lg/rail). If your positionning is not right or your aim not on par then it wont forgive you (lg rape or invisible rail rape rl spam etc). In duel, even if your aim is not godlike or you get caught by behind etc you can escape the fight and move on to another spot damage less (in CA you can too but most likely another enemy will wait for you). You dont have to force the fight and its rare that someone takes a rail or rl on purpose to get on to your face and 40 lg you.

I was hoping some players who normally duel can shed some light on this particular trend because I'm seriously confused (and may I add...I don't give a shit which gametype involves more skill, I just play for fun).

well since you asked, its:

duel>tdm>ctf>ffa>ft>practice vs bots>training (getting started) course>....>ca

duel > tdm ?

mmmmm I don't know, it's hard to pick one

oh and i'm 100% with you on: practice vs bots>ca
bots are better than half the people you meet in ca

Ditto :X

Ive played a couple CA games in the past and I find the positioning at the beginning of the game to be confusing (mainly because you have to take in consideration multiple enemies opposed to just 1) where hiding at a decent duel spot with multiple exits can be a sandwich fest in CA.


So mainly its just due to experience after so many trial and errors I guess you find the cute tricks and spots that get you easy dmg against none experienced players and prevents you from getting owned right away.

Good example of not being experienced. I think the first time I played CA I was tele-fragged before I could even start. lol

It's just an ego thing, combined with the fact that CA plays differently to duel and puts you in a lot of situations that are annoying for people who are used to duel. (e.g. getting ganged from behind while you're already trying to fight someone)

And yeah, I mostly duel. Duel is definitely the deeper gametype, and makes much more sense for competitive play.

But because there is less to it, CA can be more punishing of certain weaknesses. If your aim sucks, and your opponent is playing seriously and has basic game-sense, you're pretty much stuffed. Whereas in duel there's a lot more depth to the brain-game, so a lot more opportunities to compensate for your weak spot.

I don't know whether it makes sense to say CA is 'less skilled'. It's shallower, and there are fewer important skills, but it's not like there's much luck involved. It's still almost entirely skill-based, it just focusses mostly on aim + basic weapon selection + basic positioning & teamplay + a bit of movement, rather than aim + basic weapon selection + a whole bunch of relatively deep tactical elements + a bit of movement.

ALSO, serious CA on anything other than really small open maps is freaking boring. Whereas serious duel can be pretty slow-paced and frustrating, but not really boring.

CA is annoying cause ur individual skill doesnt matter that much as in duel...

no matter how good u are, theres no way 2 guys cant rape u easly with lg...


Duel is masterpiece of gaming, CA is its retarded brother... even 1o1 CA is retarded, cause its all aim no brain...

If that is what you enjoy the most, then it really isn’t retarded. If you get most thrills as a player doing intense battles and don't care much about running items, spawnrape, trying to stack up while stay hidden to come back into a game and such other things that duel players may call tactical, then CA is the perfect gametype for you. After all almost every non-pro player plays the game for fun.

was talking from competitive view.

if we think about having fun, then duel is most retarded, cause its no fun at all

lol :D!

bullshits.

If you get most thrills as a player doing intense battles and don't care much about running items, spawnrape, trying to stack up while stay hidden to come back into a game and such other things that duel players may call tactical

that's FFA


Instead: if you like to use only your best weapon, if you like to hide between pillars in dm6, if you don't want to learn to strafe to be able to run and steal weapons\armors\items, if you like to have your ass covered in order to kill some one, if you like to let others decrease enemies hp to have an easy kill, AND if you aren't able to aim so you need self damage to be off, in order to not kill yourself.... THEN CA is for you

I was talking about 1v1 CA, where you can with rail sure, but that won’t get you any rounds :). I disagree with everything you said. Sure one could do better in CA without learning things like strafing than one would do in duel, but everyone who put in time in CA will eventually realize the benefits of knowing such a thing and will learn it at some point I’m sure, but back to the point:

What I said have no connection to FFA. In FFA you need to time in order to be successful and the intense battles I was talking about are a rarity (at least compared to CA) because you (obviously) aren’t stacked by automatic and one of the players in such a battle will in almost every case have a large advantage in form of stack and arsenal, thus making the battle non-intense (in most cases still).

And a final note: What you described sound like low tier CA and that is ofc not how CA is played on higher level, but either you are too stupid and/or stubborn to realize that, or it is just exaggeration when you write as you do, which hopefully is the case.

Average tier 3 CA players:

ThePurpleBunny
Frags/Deahts: Frags / Deaths: 10,739 / 12,541
Accuracy: : 18.88%

ZippyD
Frags / Deaths: 4,201 / 7,570
Accuracy: Accuracy: 14.80%

LarryDalooza
Frags / Deaths: 29,627 / 38,769
Accuracy: 17.78%

Average tier 3 Duelers

Timmith
Frags/Deaths: 7,400 / 8,990
Accuracy: 27.65%

[url=www.bit.ly/u6Y

the point of this post is....?

welll i have resently discovered grindcore. although, grindcore might not be right. its more thrashcore rather than power-violence kind.

thats all i have to say. be well!!

There's no point, its a Fudge post. :D
And Casual Arena sucks ass.

I play both(ca mainly for mindless fun and aim although it is extremely padded). They both have their ups and downs. In the end, it all boils down to whoever has a bigger ego.

all of quake is about ego, ego is what fuels the game, no ego no quake.

CA LOL

DUEL LOL.

SKILLLESS CA PLAYERS TALKING DOWN ON DUEL LOL

inb4CAlol

wait...

Or it could be that those duelers in CA are the same ones that trash talk and make excuses every time they lose in duel.

lolca

ca is really only annoying when people take it seriously

duel is really only annoying when people take it seriously

i find duel to be no fun if the opponent is not really trying to win but just dicking around

ca on the other hand is ridiculously stupid if everyone tries to win instead of just having fun

this

i disagree, ca can still be loads fun while being played srsly.

a gamemode that offers no reason to attack while favoring the defensive player due to basic gameplay principles is imho simply not suited for serious play

This game is really only annoying when people take it seriously ( its only a computer game lol)

( its only a computer game lol)]

People that say that are just ignorant.

It's funny how that statement is more often than not said by someone that plays CA like they're in some major tourney with 50k on the line. I'd imagine if people really did play it for some mindless fun for pulling off crazy shit or whatever, it would be a hell of a lot more fun than it is now.

I mean, I don't know, maybe sitting on the other side of the map spamming doorways and taking the occasional peek rail until your whole team dies so you can try for your pubstar badge is fun for some people. To me that's just boring.

i bet it was pretty fun for you when you were trigger botting.

Oooooohhh! :D

Not nearly as fun or impressive as when you were wallhacking.

Wait, what?! Seriously?

?

I thought he wanted to play some kind of creative writing game. He writes something silly, I write something silly.

In the case of him being serious then, all I can say is: lol. Would absolutely love to see what kind of proof there is of me using any kind of cheat. Cause it sure would be news to me.

It really is a shame that in North America at least, people only play CA for the most part. I'd be willing to say that 80%+ of the CA players in NA have never touched a gametype that does not provide all weapons from the start. I actually respect the tier 2 space CTF pubbers more than the typical egotistical "CA GOD." At least those guys try to play a meaningful game mode. But I guess having newbie ass CA is better than not having any QL at all

CA is pretty fun, that's all I know :>

Hell yea :)

i dont know if they are CA players, but some peeps def complain about not playing overly +forward in duel. here i am roleplaying as rapha and they are just killing the mood :C

The only thing I don't like about CA is the same as for vanilla CS, no instant respawn. Having to sit and wait is nono fun :<. (yes i die early xd)

I am a dueler, playing CA as well.

It is for sure that CA players are not as good as duelers in CA, it just silly/stupid how much they fly around in the air as targetpractice and gets taken out easily.
They have no awareness about how to circle a map to catch someone, they circle randomly until they find a target by accident -_- yawn when both people just rocketjumps around on dm6 on each their side of the map.

"ok"

I find it funny how I do the same thing in 1v3's and 1v4's, except I do it diligently in order to avoid them in groups and isolate them in 1v1's because CA players are all fucking worthless at 1v1's. Then they persist on me sucking, even though some of them are the worst gamers I've ever met in my life and I just clutched them without even really trying because they're so easy to read.

"CA players are all fucking worthless at 1v1's"

not all
not me

ROFL. No.

its because CA is the call of duty of quake, but sometimes theres no duel server at 7am, so thats what remains.

also, in the past centuries when two gentleman reached a disagreement they didnt went for a snowball fight or rock-paper-scissors, they went our for dueling!

just keep in mind backing out is a bigger shame than taking the challenge and losing it.

i came to the conclusion that tdm,duel,ctf are better for me than ca because of the time wasted in ca when u die, u have to spectate and u dont play.

my theory is that i have limited time and do not want to waste it spectating someone in ca.

People tend to look for excuses when their performance isn't up to expectations. In duels there's no excuse for playing bad, more than "You're better than i am because I suck ass".

It's easier to blame your substandard performance on the gametype since it's something different that what you're used to. Normal people tend to be very cautious about their egos, and therefore make up stupid excuses in order to be percieved as a better player/person.

With that said, I'm both a dueller, CTFer and a CA-player, and honestly not the best one. I do not think your skill is based off what gametype you prefer. Of course, it's about aptitude. How well you cope with changes and how good you actually are in a game. but that's just my objective point of view.

higher skill-level = better copeability = better player.

You can't perform in CA? Get better in CA / Practice. You can't perform in duels? Get better in duels / Practice. Can't perform in bed? Practice.

Not that fucking hard to understand.

"Get better in CA / Practice"

to practice CA is just the utter most moronic thing u could ever do, its not even quake. the day i start practicing CA is the day i quit quake

You practice CA by playing the game. If you think you suck at CA, or at QuakeLive in general, you certainly won't get better at it if you don't play the game. (You as in anybody, not aimed towards you)

u wont get better at quake by practicing CA. ofc, your aim and movement is gonna get better, but once u reach a limit, progression will come very slowly, and u will baaaaaaarley be getting better.

i dont think u develop skill in CA by playing other modes. like with practicing CA, ur aim and movement will improve in all gamemodes, but CA isnt quake. practicing CA to get better at CA is nothing but moronic, and those players have nothing to do in quake.

You keep saying that "CA isn't Quake". You run around and shoot people. That's Quake. That's in CA. If you think Quake is about collecting and timing items, then you're sadly deluded.

i dont see how its not when every real gamemode is based around that

Really? I didn't know you could increase your score by picking up items, i thought you did that by killing your enemies/capturing the flag. Huh.

lets be realistic for a second: u will never win a game against a half decent player without picking up items. if u dont agree wth that, then im not sure what quake u been playing

Of course not, but it's just an element of the gametypes that feature it, not their centerpiece. Quake is not an adventure game, it's a shooter. I simply don't understand your logic that rejects a gametype as being "real" just because it does not have that one particular element. I can understand saying it's not as deep and compatible with your preferences, but you're going way overboard with your criticism. If someone wants to have their shooting without the item collecting element, what's wrong with that, exactly?

well thats just oversimplifying it. gunning down your opponent mindlessly is usually not an option, even after your first game. if u wanna use that as a ground for what quake is, then u should really reconsider what this game ur playing really is.

its nothing wrong with having fun in CA, but to practice the gamemode to become better at CA, is for anyone whos trying to develop in quake, completely moronic.

Who's talking about doing anything mindlessly? What about reactions, dodging, positioning, map awareness and movement in addition to aim? I find picking up items proportionately detrimental to the amount of fun i'm having while shooting people. If you center your experience around collecting armors, hey, more power to you. I don't.

If you only play CA, and don't plan to play other gametypes, then it's natural to... practice CA. Will it gimp your ability in other gametypes? Yes. Will it matter? No, because you won't be playing them.

Your entire point revolves around a very practical and elitist mindset about arbitrary superiority based upon the existence or inexistence of an element of play. It's a game, man. It's about having fun. Different people enjoy different things. Maybe it's time people like you can stop with the prejudice and we can all just play the fucking game whatever way we all want to and have some fun, eh?

Wait a f***king minute

Madbringer from E+?

Sure am. Been a while man, didn't recognize you with that fancy 'z' and all. :D

<3 MAD :D

(no homo)

i dont want to compare CA to duel in terms of reactions, dodging, positioning, map awareness and movement in addition to aim (copy+paste!!). the 2 modes might be run on the same engine, but other than that there are simply too few similarites. the rest of the first part im gonna ignore, cuz its just so ignorant

when i say practice CA i mean practice, not playing it and getting better at it. lets say u are learning how to strafe jump; once u know how, u wont spending time activily practicing it. my point is: if u are serious enough about quake to practice a pacific gametype, you are sabotaging urself if u choose to get better at CA.

how would my elitist mindset work if i was a CA player? would it be?

"lets be realistic for a second: u will never win a game against a half decent player without picking up items. if u dont agree wth that, then im not sure what quake u been playing "

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1923408
now delete your ql account

never is always a stretch =) ofc there is always the possibily, as a lot of other things that i claim "will never happen."

You play Quake Live for some time, you will be better at CA. That is if we apply logic to it. :)

no, i refusee to playing the game like a ca cunt, and when i do it lasts for 10 seconds

And that's still not my point. The more you play the game of Quake Live, no matter what gametype you choose to play, you will still improve in the general areas required for, e.g, CA. Aiming, movement, Weapon-handling, IGS.

well at least youre not wrong, cpt. (cpt = short for captain obvious)

I know I'm not wrong, I just answered other people when they called me out on it. Apparently it wasn't that obvious considering people kept calling me out on my original post, which stated the same thing.

I have no intention of saying that CA is a good practice-ground, or that duellers suck at CA generally. What I said though, is that CA and duels are different and different rules apply. CA often has more than one opponent, and there's no items to time. Above that, there's a lot of people to aim at and little breathing-space, which requires you to play CA differently than how you play duels.

"I do not think your skill is based off what gametype you prefer. Of course, it's about aptitude. How well you cope with changes and how good you actually are at a game. but that's just my objective point of view."

You can't really get better if you don't play the game, regardless of gametype.

i would benefit more from watching my own demos, if i wanted to improve. i think everyone except total beginners would.

just look at rapha, he didnt reach the top from hardcore practice

Well, he didn't reach the top by wanking either. Of course he played and still plays like a fucking mad man.

he kinda did. as far as i know, rapha wasnt more than mediocre in q3, and while every pro moved over to q4, rapha improved his q3. you would argue that hardcore practice wouldnt cut it, since all good player were playing q4.

QL is more like Q3 than Q4 though.

Troll CA. It's more fun than actually taking it even remotely seriously because of how much the antisocial basement dwellers there just feed the trolls like the retards that they are. Not to mention they think calling you fat/downy/sucks at QL/nerd/a nigger is actually offensive, and they basically describe their own lives when talking about "how sad and pathetic and lonely that faggot whos spamming binds must be in real life" since they obviously experience it first-hand.

i disagree... if you can't concentrate, your duel-play will be shit, as you are unable to have the 10 minute game in your mind. with CA, it doesnt matter if you can't concentrate, rounds only last 30 seconds anyway

Isn't it even more important to be focused then, since the rounds are so short and there's lots of people to frag?

no

ca lol

ca is shits and giggles, and meaningless fun
duel is serious and determines who is smarter, and does combat better (didint use "aim" intentionally)

Finally, someone else in this community who isn't superficial about the game and who doesn't treat combat and aim in Quake as one in the same. Thank you.

From my experience, those who complain about CA are often wannabes who don't really enjoy quake

My thinking is captured in this proposal.

To summarize: a lot of people (duelers as well) look into CA as a place to mess around with all weapons, get used to cfg changes and so on, and they do not care about the actual team component.

Having to wait for the last guy to die, or having people complaining on how they play just piss them off; they do not care about team play, they just want a sandbox environment. My speculation is that by adding red rover, a big chunk of poeple would flow into that, and you will see much less "complaining about CA".

As for the gameplay itself, CA suffers from lack of tangible elements, resulting in the inability to define what is correct or not.

Quake on its own lacks explicit elements, as most of its components are continuous and not easy to describe. But at least, duel, TDM, CTF have concrete identifiable things, like items, powerups or flags, that give a base to discuss on, and develop theories. I can take a new duel player and give him a big list of concrete things to learn. The higher the level, the harder, but still there is a consensus on what makes you a better dueler.

CA is cryptic. On paper it only has the number of players, their individual skill, and the map. Maps seem to be a fundamental factors, as they totally drive the gameplay. Example: a map with small rooms and narrow corridors like ra3map2 start revealing the idiocy of 2 teams camping in two nearby rooms and spamming the entrances until they run our of nades/rockets... when I was competing in RA3 I saw that happens all the time.

But still there are no clear rules of what makes a good CA map. Again this is difficult for other modes as well, but these modes having items etc make discussions much easier and more effective.

Besides the maps, and the randomish team one gets on public, there are unwritten theories about meeting somewhere, rushing together and so on, but applying them on a public server is almost impossible, expect for the lucky situation of you finding 1 or 2 like-minded players with your skill level. And even then, theories are often negated by facts.

So in general CA gameplay is lacking explicit elements, in a game - Quake - which already lacks them (think of SC2 for a game with tons of concrete explicit elements one can discuss and theorize on). As result, the CA community never developed a good theory to hand down to the next generations, and as it is played right now, is a poor competitive game.

I personally like CA as fun gamemode, and am very annoyed by people believing "they know". Let me have fun, and get a clan if you want to do "the serious business".

CA is the only mode that directly supports most of quake features intended for fun play to get you hooked up on the game and make you not feel like a complete noob.
It is a mode that stresses out aim which you can then use to get out of stickier situations against better tactical players in other modes while you master timing, positioning etc,.

Most players that prefere other mdoes or have extended experience in toher game types in quake do not preffer CA since it enables 2 noob players to have lucky shots or spam some shit and rip them apart. Then they impose their own game type and proclaim it better then Clan arena. Most gametypes have more depth, and are more fun to play with your clan mates.

On the other hand, without that Clan Arena enabled in Quakelive, most other gametypes would never-ever have a chance to gain any new blood players moving and expanding from Clan Arena into other modes.

Also most people after having experiences with duelers and tdmers and ctfers going all EGO and high and mighty on them really dislike those modes, and player demographic there.

If you want to play CA, play it with the same respect you give other modes and their respective players.

only thing i don't like in ca is when ppl keep trying to chase me for lg fights after getting raped in lg fights the 9 previous rounds, lemme lg-rape someone else u %*#$! :@

i once played ca and was like haha wtf they teamplay i mean, really??? -> /quit

yeah and it's a bad gamemode for me because you should play superlame in order to do well, my style being aggressive and involving myself in fights didnt end up good => cba

CA killed this game.

agreed

ra3 was the most successful mod in q3 because you could just jump into it, play some 2on2 on thunderstruck, get bored, play some 1v1 on evolution, get bored, jump into ca and play a bit.
people spent hours upon hours on one server and experienced different stuff.

if anything killed ql it's the lack of a even more casual ca mod that you can just jump into any time without the focus on 10minute/round "matches" where half the people leave after one match and then you wait 10 minutes for the teams to fill up again

I don't know the story of q3 before ra3
what I can tell you is that q3 was a different game, in a different gaming era

Before CA was introduced, tdm and ctf servers were always full of players, and many times very good ones, noobs were forced to learn how to play this game
then CA happened
noobs found out that they could kill people more easily, that bring more casual players into the pool, and much more important a casual way to play this game
being it more easy you can play it for fun, and at anytime, thus, it doesn't really matter to have a clan, but many do, just to have fun together
and while many players use ca to learn to play a bit cause other mods are too hard, the most of them just stick to the ca fun-dom

in "a moment" you could felt something changed, tdm servers began to get empty and new kids went on the block (as well as in esr)

you can say: ok, so what? people stick to play quake anyway whether is it a-non-ca-gamemode or not

problem is that this new way to approach the game, may...yeah keep the servers full, but in the meantime all this people doesn't give a f* about the community, nor the tournaments

so...there are probably a lot of people having fun rightnow in quakelive servers, but we are lacking of any real community and competitive scene

that's what I think, cause i've fought ALOT against this line of thought players have, and I blame CA cause most of those whom have it, play CA regularly
my 2c peace out

tdm scene has been dead for years. ca had nothing to do with that

it isn't been dead for years, anyway I wasn't really talking about the competitive scene, but about the community scene tdm was creating back in the days or could have created

Pub tdm died because good players were too elitist to play nice with noobs. Even semi-decent people like me who tried to learn the gametype got shitton of abuse because i didn't know something, missed a timing for an item and stuff like that.

On top of that, good players tended to stack up in one team and noobs, being noobs, ragequit halfway thru with scores being often something like 100 to 5. You blame newbies (including people new to the gametype, not only new to quake), but i blame the attitude of players who know their shit but are so stuck up in their little circlejerking ways that they pissed all over the noobs and effectively killed pub tdm.

CA has nothing to do with it, all those people just packed their things and moved to a gametype where they get less abuse for being shitty and that isn't as demanding skillwise.

But hey, there still are pickups, right? Except they're also saturated with elitism and negative attitude towards newbies. It's hard to get into the more skill demanding gametypes as is, and people being dicks and putting newbies down because they're better then them at the game really doesn't help.

I imagine it must have been fun for the players that knew how to play and had good aim, mowing down wave after wave of fresh spawns for 20 minutes and getting high on their own egocentricism, what a fucking wonder everyone got tired of it eventually.

pickups are elitist because mostly good players play it, and they want to play good players too

I'm not any good in tdm, the little i know i learnt by playing and being smashed

I don't remember all the things that you are talking about tho
at least not at the time which I'm talking about

Games were hard, but easy-tdm was around to practice more easily before enter the pro-tdm servers, so there wasn't that 0-to-100 skill level gap, not often

then as I said... kids happened...
tdm became the place of people teamkilling and having bad behaviours, and finally noob-ragequit from server made its mass appearence as we know it today
why?
because we live in 2011, and already 4 shitty Call of Duty titles ruined the new generation of players
easy kills, easy gameplay, and so on...

so...people try to play something, but hey... why should I play this crappy gamemode scoring a -40 net when I can just play CA and have fun killing people? -> /quit
:>

things where different, and you have to had been there to tell that something changed after CA (if you even noticed)


ca is funny sometimes, but in my opinion ruined the game

I concur about idiots ruining tdm as well, but they're in every gametype. I think the smaller than normal playerbase made it so they were more noticeable.

To be perfectly frank i think you might as well blame FFA and insta, because people fled to those gametypes in equal measure. If tag was free i'd bet you it would become as or even more popular than CA is.

Look, i understand it. A gametype you like has been reduced to scrims and pugs, and it pisses you off. But blaming other gametypes just because they exist and offer an alternative to the newbie masses? That is just childish.

No no no no
wait..
I don't like tdm, weel it isn't true...i do like it, but i'm not angry because of tdm
I was just bringing an example on the table because that was plain clear to my eyes during the time being

I blame CA for killing the game, community speaking, that's all.




And well insta is a well known casual mode of quake, but ffa I think it's not all that casual, at least not as much as ca, cause you may get some easy frags but in the long run you have to fight (even to get a weapon)

I don't understand how you think CA killed the game...its been an extremely popular game mode since quake 2...

I've already explained myself about it in the previous post

and ur wrong. ca is not the problem. its a symptom. 90% of my friends list is people who played q3 duel/tdm/ctf at fairly high skill levels. for a long time i had trouble understanding why theyd much rather sit in ca servers playing with newbs as opposed to paying for a premium account and playing tdm/ctf pickups via an irc channel.

i think its a mix of factors. part of it is the way people are disappointed in ql and how it isnt living up to q3. part of it is the fact that a lot of the decent ctf/tdm maps are premium and people dont want to pay for that shit. the part i dont get tho is why theres no coherent movement to just say fuck it we are so addicted to the game that we sit and pay ql ca, so lets just quit this and move back to q3 and play pickups on maps we like. that part i think is just crazy stupid. (its hilarious how many times i hear people whine about how terrible ql is compared to q3 and when i ask them why they dont just play q3 again they make excuses like omg its too hard to install when it actually takes about 5 mins.)

tldr version: ca is essentially the symptom of the fact that a lot of old school quakers (including urs truly) are too addicted to the game to quit playing no matter how shit they think ql is. and unfortunately id gave them the pub ca platform where they can jump in any time they want, get a game with a bunch of other people mostly newbs, rape and then rant about how shit the game is. sad really.

a lot of old school quakers (including urs truly)

rofl. "old school" = been playing since 2006?

i guess i just meant someone who has been playing quake for a while.

i realize that, quoting you: "Before CA was introduced, tdm and ctf servers were always full of players, and many times very good ones, noobs were forced to learn how to play this game
then CA happened"

this is what i don't get, CA has been around just as long as every game mode, and just as popular as every game mode in the golden days of quake, so how exactly did other modes suffer while they were thriving along with CA at one point or another...it just so happens that CA is the only semi-active mode left

CA was introduced after a while, 6-7 months or more maybe? i couldn't tell honestly...

anyway it is active because it's a casual mode, competitively speaking i don't think that it is much more alive than ctf is

so I wouldn't really call it ALIVE...
<troll> cause players are braindead. </troll>

not

Well, duel is the most inherently stressful gametype. It requires the most concetration, it punishes your mistakes the most, and losing a duel feels very personal (as some other people said, you can't really blame anyone but yourself, even if your chat rage says otherwise). That and most duellers have really bloated egos and a well developed superiority complex - you won't find more assholes anywhere else than on the duel servers. Add one to the other and there you have it.

I don't know why people are so hard on CA, anyway. What's the problem with having an equally casual but slightly less chaotic alternative ot FFA? Since tag is prem only that's all us lower tier guys have. I only wish there were more playable maps than Quarantine, Trinity and dm6. Almost Lost is too tiny and campy, Asylum is a railfest and the other maps are simply too shitty for this gametype. Whenever i see a CA server running Hell's Gate or a space map a tiny bit of me just rots away and dies crying.

you just called dm6 decent in ca without mentioning map11/thunder. you obviously know a lot about ca.

c:

And Dredwerkz. Let's not forget about Dredwerkz.

I'm guilty of what the OP said. I play CA to practice specific things, like up close RL fights or railing or whatever, but I also try to work with my team and pull a win out. So I'm the guy saying "BRIDGE!" on dm6. And guess what? There's always 1 or 2 guys that don't show. They +back/rail and pad their scores. In fact, I've noticed that almost 100% of the time the highest scoring player is on the losing team. He baits his team and plays what I call HERO ARENA. He's 200/100 last one alive, and then tries to "take out the trash" in an epic 3v1. Every single round. He hits a ninja rail shot then disappears through the tele. Of course he has the highest score! He's also the worst thing for the team. And yet he always blames his team for the loss "Look at the scores bro, pretty obv who's bad....". So yes, I play duel mostly, and when I play CA I complain about how lame it is. But it's really the players that are lame, not the game mode. When you get on a team with no HERO, it can actually be quite fun.

play CA to practice specific things, like up close RL fights or railing or whatever, but I also try to work with my team and pull a win out. So I'm the guy saying "BRIDGE!" on dm6.

yeah you're gonna get real good at duel that way, camp that bridge

Yeah well, maybe not everyone wants to sit in one spot, round after round, and politely exchange rails with the dudes at pillars/rg ledge, or try to brush away incoherent attacks by rl/gl spam and meatshielding?

People get angry at me because i rarely go bridge, but i don't try and hero it up, i always try to find a teammate or two and stick with them to gang up on the survivalists roaming the map alone. Not going bridge ain't a problem, people scattering all over the place without any plan or direction is. Boiling the entire gameplan to just sitting in one place is an antithesis of what "fun" is for me (and basically what "competetive" ca is all about, i fucking hate it), and i consider winning a game by just going bridge/pillars/grinder/top all the time to not being worth my time.

lolol. this is like the most annoying thing in the world. people expecting you to follow strategies in a pub ca. i mean the whole idea of strategies in ca is stupid enough but to expect it on pub servers. hilarious.

any time i see someoen spamming bridge on a ca server i usually go to the opposite end of the map. just to piss them off.

Do you ever do anything other than complain about anything and everything? I have rarely seen you say or do anything positive, whether it's on this site, IRC, whatever. You literally whine about everything, no matter the significance. Why is it that in the Quake community, the people who give nothing back to and do nothing for the community are always the loudest and most vocal? They seem to have the strongest opinions but lack the expertise. Just go back to being a mediocre cpma player already...Please

What an amazingly ironic comment. <3 ESR.

Wonko does more than 95% of the community in the US.

that why u are jerk lol

:)

on a more serious note i honestly think that theres a lot more casual ca players out there who take pub ca way too seriously than duelers who bring their egos into pub ca. i mean most of the time i jump into a ca server to just fuck about and have fun. but half the players are usually - omg we must win....kinda hard to have fun in that environment. so nowadays i usually just fuck about and try to rage people by doing silly shit. guess that would make me a jerk. thankfully i dont play much ca. so everyone wins.

Seriusly i do same if some1 spam so sophisticate "tactic" and it doesnt make any sens. Mostly it piss them off which can be additional fun ;>.

in rocket arena 2 you had the possibility to also play in little duel arenas that were available besides a big main arena, why is this feature not anymore available?
Also when everyone is waiting for some player to finish the round,
is there a timelimit now enabled when the round finishes?
There could also be an instantgib frag room for the waiting players to join while the round is still ongoing.

this feature is still available, it's called "small CA".

you can play it on thunderstruck, somewhat damaged, hellsgateredux, hearth and so on..

that's good to hear ... I have to come around playing some QL in the next days ...

Generally, those who believe they play the more "skilled" game or gametype will always bash on other game types that are more popular.

Quake players will bash on CS, CoD or any other game that they think is less skillful (which is almost every game, except perhaps Starcraft). Equally, duellers will bash on CA players and CA players will bash on instagib players.

I think it boils down to respect. Ultimately, I will respect someone who is great at duelling more than someone who is great at instagib or excessive. Or someone who is great at Starcraft compared to Halo.

However, for many that respect towards some turns to disrespect towards the rest. Doesn't make much sense and I for one look down upon anyone which such tendencies, as they are in my eyes lesser people.

One should note that Quake is hardly at the top of the respect food chain to begin with. Anyone practicing real life sports at a higher level will generally look down upon video gamers, thinking they just press a few buttons.

are you seriously saying Quake isn't more skilled than CS od COD?

I've not made any comment as to what game I consider the most skilled out of those. So no, it is not what I am saying, why do you ask that?

If you want to ask me if I consider Quake more skillful than CoD? Yes I do, I have no reason to bash CoD players over it though, as people should just pick the game or gametype they like the best.

my bad sorry, I misunderstood what you said ^^"

Playing pub ca is mainly playing a teamgame with idiots, which is not really fun.

CA only nice on dm6 in cpm with DOA playing in the background.

watch out here I come come come come

i came.

cpm ca on dm6 is obviously very fun, but it tends to get boring with time, especially when you play it all the time.

..........

whooooooooosh

yeah I play on the okidoki server every now and then,

:]

loldiscussion and still lolca

lol @ being an alias who pops up in every discussion on ESR and channel on IRC, thinking that his opinion carries any clout.

No one knows who you are nor does anyone care. Do you even play this game, or do you just spend more time trolling ESR, wait...no one will know because you can't use a real name anywhere you go. I swear, Quake players have to be some of the most insecure people in all of gaming...

Just be lazy like me and post anonymously, rather than trying to establish an identity on what is obviously an alias.

lolanontrollfail and still lolca

he's really czm

I don't even play QL, but I started playing QWCA in 1999, and the op quote resonated with me:

By routine, this usually happens after they get raped by 4 LG's at once or fragged by a random rocket across the map. That's CA for ya, and to be quite honest, I love it haha!

I also picked up duel after QWCA and I enjoy both and see the merits of both. I've developed a certain strategy early on in playing QWCA where I would play slow and low in the opening minutes (and especially opening seconds) in a round, keeping visual on a teammate whenever possible (although so many times teammates in CA will disappear when they are most needed) and using "brain" to win the majority of one-man-standing encounter.

I don't suggest comparing CA and duel. One is a glorified aim sparring session - lots of fun, and great to introduce new players to the game. The other is a deep game of control, aim, and all kinds of know-how and experience, something I think that is the most stressfull to play in the current e-sports phenomenon, and I have a great respect for its masters.

(P.S. back in those early qwca days I played a qwca duel on high ping vs ParadokS (he had lan ping) and the score was even when he rage quit. It means nothing, except something to have a few laughs with him these days)

(I beat him when we played a couple minutes before where he was high ping and I was low)

(true story)

You also beat Reppie on povdmm4 on LAN ;) Respect!

I still have this demo on my hard drive lol

locust too

(Then they crush me 100-0 on any duel map)

now go to ufa :D

Duellers do unimportant damage when they play their +b rail game.
What is score +100 worth when you still loose?
That they sometime win anyway is more an identification of the skill level on public server. Try doing it, even against div 3 teams, you will get raped silly.

ca>tdm>ft>ffa>ctf>cs>duel.

duel>ctf>tdm>ffa>ca>insta

lolca

arent scandis supposed to speak decent english? :o

wtf grammar?

almost every ca player is so much brainless that you can't really write it here...
when u are playing smart game and winning they are like "luck", "lol why u rush me 2v1", "no honor from you guys, 2v1"

CA IS A FU&***$%^ING TEAM PLAY GAME.
So I don't understand them, and I'll always call ca players most brainless quakers. For them it's all about aim when they're winning.

This has most likely been discussed but I don't feel like reading the whole thing...

"duelers" who complain about CA are just as much at fault as people who brag about "owning" in a public CA server.

Honestly, I can see why people get upset when someone is getting wrecked in CA and claiming how they would rape everyone in duel (i think most of us have been there) but its just as worse when you have some kid who is talking a lot of trash when he's doing good on a public CA server. It's clan arena, the teams were decided by a shuffle. It's not like these teams have been practicing together and using teamwork, most people are just playing casually. So there's no point why a CA player should get high and mighty about dominating the pub.

...haha gotta defend that ego, u know

"...some kid who is talking a lot of trash when he's doing good on a public CA server. It's clan arena, the teams were decided by a shuffle. It's not like these teams have been practicing together and using teamwork, most people are just playing casually. So there's no point why a CA player should get high and mighty about dominating the pub."

That's a troll my dude.

:O 9 on esr?

Welcome dude, long time no see !

Instead of playing for fun you should concentrate on your stats, then you'll maybe see ze light (or darkness).

There's so much crazy bickering in quakelive.. and sadly I was joining the craze of being a whiner.. So far I've had a 3 week break and hopefully should carry on until next year then hopefully I'll get rid of this elitism attitude I acquired..

In short I think the best medicine is to just take a break and remember that the game is there to be enjoyed and if you don't like CA don't play it.. Also a good thing that helped me before was unbinding a talk button and not letting console chat work because you end up writing something in the console to talk and it doesn't print to anyone and then you think oh fuck it why bother.. :o)

Well, it's all about personality, isn't it?

pub CA is a joke, but still very fun to play overall, with music.

Real CA clanwars are interesting, at least when you play with the right team, otherwise it's a pain in the ass...

CA 1v1 is the best, especially on thunderstruck. No bullshit there, only aim/dodges and movements. and you won't get spammed by 4 people on crack. You can still play it with music without any handicap, unlike in duel where you have to focus 100% and listen carefully in order to know where to opponent is going.

Those saying that the CA players don't know how to move are wrong, i suggest you to spec some top CA player and then tell me again that he doesn't know how to rocket jump, strafe jump etc... I wouldn't trsut you in this case. Sure, the average tier4 CA player isn't really good at moving around the map fluently, but compared to a top CA player, he's nothing. To play CA efficiently you have to know how to move, especially at the end of the round, when it's 2 or 3 vs 1.

1v1 eyetoeye is better because then players can't just hide around and spam rockets

To learn play CA you need 6 months @ get skilled.
To learn play DUEL you need 3 years @ get skilled.
So in duel you need ATLEAST 5 times more skill and 5 times more time to learn it.

I don't blame ppl who playing CA, it's like some CS players playing 10 year just in PUB servers ( I like to do it too with CS ). If it's FUN FOR YOU - YOU PLAY. IF YOU DON'T - DON'T PLAY CA.

This phenomenon is not exclusive to game modes, as I see it happen across games all the time. They will likely never get anyone to actually challenge them to the mode/game in question, so they use it as a way to protect their ego.

funniest argument ever:

Everyone knows how to aim, at least somewhat, EVERYONE knows how to play CA.

If someone doesn't know how to duel, why not man up and 1v1 them in CA?

You are basically saying, "I know how to 1v1 in ca but I don't do it because you know how to 1v1 in ca also."

"I know how to duel but you don't, so let me shit on you."

Rofl.

1v1 CA = I'm not smart enough to accept your duel faceoff request, duel is too hard for me, so lets play 1v1 in a team-based gamemode.

I usually duel, but when I'm in a humorous mood, and in a CA match, sometimes i'll troll and make fun of CA, even though i've played 1000 CA matches. its just funny

LOL.

you are trolling right now. if i said 1v1 ca, and you say no, that is the SAME as saying no to a 1v1 duel. there is no difference, and if you disagree you are an imbecile.

Me: 1v1 ca?
You: ROFL, newb.. who 1v1's ca?
Me: I don't play duel, I only play CA. Both modes require aiming, why not face me in a mode that we both know how to play? (CA)
You: ROFL, i can't aim because all i do is spam and pick up items to have an advantage over you..
Me: Case settled.. I out aim you, in a first person shooter.

it doesnt bother u knowing that hes a much better quake player than you? knowing i can outaim somebody doesnt really feel like a victory when that same person will just piss on me in the gamemode that counts.

counts for what?

skill, as far as 1v1 goes

1v1 what?

because you never outaimed anyone other than tier2 noobs

well that not really true.i won a few lg duels against draven in 1v1 CA, but he said he just switched mouse so... i have killed good aimers too, but making a list of people i have outaimed in CA seems rather worthless and hypocritical

draven probably was blinded by his extremely cute reflection on his monitor. Doesn't count :(

Are you trolling or just being an imbecile

This is always the funniest. When people get raped repeatedly in CA and then say 'noob, lets go duel I own you'.

So... wait... you join a CA game... just to get raped... to then say 'come to a different gamemode and ill own you'?

That's like a CA player playing duel against someone.... getting repeatedly raped.... then saying 'noob, ill own you in CA'.

Both scenarios are utterly retarded. Except no CAer is retarded enough to join a duel game to then get raped and say 'come play CA, ill own you'. Only duelers are retarded enough to actually do this, because their ego gets hurt when they get owned in CA.

We are playing THIS gamemode, and in THIS gamemode I own you, period. Want to prove otherwise? Then play me in THIS gamemode.

If you dont want to get raped in THIS gamemode, then dont play THIS gamemode.

NEED MOAR CAPTURESTRIKE.

IIRC, didn't cK originate from playing CA?

the amount of overall skill in duel is much higher than in ca. that's why you might be quite even on ca but in duel he will rape the shit out of you.
it really annoys me how much damage you can do in ca with only using rocket and drive fire, which most of them do. i would love to see the rocket splash damage reduced. but that would reduce proportionally the skill of 90% of all ca players aswell.

i would like to see rocket ammo decreased to something like 25, and remove grenades

ITT: people don't play QL and complain

no u

raged like a dueller playing thunder

From a competitive point of view CA/RA has always been a broken game mode. Every time some "serious" duel/tdm players enter it, they quickly realise no items mean there is no reason to leave your advantageous position.
I can remember back when Ice Climbers entered a CA tournament and the map played was q3dm7 with one team camping RA and the other camping RL, took hours... so retarded. And there were also countless RA3 EuroCup games where one map would take literally 7 hours...

On random CA servers, nobrain CA'ers just want to have fun and expect everyone to follow a gentleman agreement that you don't abuse the shortcomings of CA (aka, camp or run away).
Duellers want to win, even in a game mode they consider beneath them. I guess those two mindsets kinda clash.

Which of them are most retarded, I dunno.

q3dm7 is a terrible CA map...

thank god for 80 dmg rail and ca maps for ca.

The problem with any kind of debate is the group of retards that come in with their uneducated opinions. They usually scream the loudest, so they're usually heard, whether we want to or not. This , in turn, falsifies a majority opinion and leads to more idiocy.

Are you talking about QL or the 2012 Republican Presidential candidates?

Basically reality in general.

I understand why average non-enthusiast QLer plays CA 24/7 instead of exploring serious game modes, but what I don't understand is why some of the top 200 CA players don't try out TDM/CTF either on their own (pickups) or within their organized teams

we see almost all of them are duelling from time to time (source qlranks.com), but it's usually just a one-off and most of them don't know what they are doing really and don't wanna expand

ofc there are some counter examples, but I feel they are in the minority

dont u have to use voicecoms for pickups?

Not if you're good enough to carry your team.

edit: What I meant to say is that all ca players would need it, even though it wouldn't matter since they would be dead weight.

never used Teamspeak in a pickup, but it's awesome for mix games and necessary for pcw

I don't play duel because you can't play with some music... instead i'm playing 1v1 CA, which is at least as much fun as duel

defrag > duel / ca skillwise

People take dueling seriously in QL? ;)

Personally speaking: When I actually decide to play QL every few months or so, I play CA. It's more fun and casual to me. I just enjoy running around and getting into battles. And of course the fact that it is teamplay makes it more enjoyable. More players, more fun.

Dueling feels like work to me. Just IMO. But of course, I'm a burn-out who doesn't want to time items and such anymore. Too much effort, lol.

I'd probably play TDM a bit for fun if there was a serious scene with some organization and teams.

That being said: Anytime a player asks me about how to get better at quake, I will tell them to duel. Just my opinion from my limited experience as a quake player. ;)

Nicely said. I don't know why people go so crazy about comparing game types based on skill and worth. If you want to have a casual, fun blast in quake - jump in CA and frag. If you want to test your skills against individuals, take up duel and learn positioning/timing/map-knowledge/predication, if you want to play with a team and learn team-based-tactics, take up TDM. But either way, all these players will jump in a CA for some quick action, a quick fix of quake-ness.
If duelers whinge in a CA game - its ONLY because _sometimes_... duelers become ego-maniacs who cannot stand being fragged by 'lesser' opponents - they just need a grow up.
That's all there is to it.

ROFL DUEL???

ca ftw