ty for the info ray

I wonder if this is related to the layoffs that happened about a week ago.

According to the snippet, he resigned himself to pursue his own interests.

Yeah, I just meant that it might have made him want to leave.

True, I see what you mean. I'd be tempted to leave too if a lot of people were getting laid off, especially if they seemed pretty experienced from my perspective.

or if you had to choose between putting resigned or laid off on your CV

it's not like they're not gonna find out when they call the most relevant job reference he has, of 15 years. he joined a start up, he doesn't care about his resume, most likely.

I thought the same. Maybe he did not like the way id's business plans have developed the past years.

id is working on an anti-cheat? do you have any reliable source for this?

CBA to find the post but someone at id was/is working in an anti-cheat on his own time.

wow, if someone has time to work on an unassigned task, maybe they're not needed. better fire them.

I also remember Sync's post about this, but I do not remember he saying that it's somebody from id.

As far as I know, TTimo hasn't worked on quakelive for a couple years at least now.

lol

What's funny about that? He moved off the QL team onto Doom4.Others have been working on QL for ages.

Relax AJ, just felt like loling a bit nothing serious ;)

He seemed a good guy, he replied to me personally before on a forum so, he's probably one of the good guys.

Got the impression he was closer to gamer/community member than your typical game dev.

ya tittymo was boss, only id employee that actually did work, cliath is cool too but doesnt work for quakelive team just plays

How long before all the id employees have quit?

so now time to fix the netcode ;)

john carmack could probably just review the whole netcode in a day and fix it on the go, too bad he stopped caring

I doubt that on both fronts.
But with the posts I've made to ID he can make it within an hour. If he doesn't read them then he wouldn't know what's wrong with it ;).
That he doesn't care is just nonsense... QL didn't make ID any money, it's just costing them... and seeing how crap the public opinion on it is getting I wouldn't be suprised if Bathesda comes in and shuts it down.

i like to exaggerate

so does him

he*

.

ye well synchronising processes takes a different mindset from graphical programming. And he doesn't know how arQon screwed up the netcode so he'd first have to read that, think about it etc etc.

It's not that he's not capable. I am a huge JC fan since I read the q3 code :). But I don't think he ever took time to think about how to best synchronize server and client. Only how to reduce time for the clients.

.

weird we got bigger issues than netcode, trust me.

ye, global warming. Iran becomming a nuclear power. Financial crisis etc....

LOL

ye, global warming. Iran becomming a nuclear power. Financial crisis etc....

...yamahas, dmzs, kawasakis. Maicos, pursang! Swedish fireballs

Couple of Triumphs. Here and there a CZ.
All very, very fast.

very

There goes any future Linux support

what was his actually work on ql btw?

He banned people who didn't have Premium.

It is Sync/Ordus job to do

I guess back when he worked on the team he was taking care of the linux support. Might as well have done general game coding. He used to contribute to the development of gtkradiant aswell.

The Linux port of QL was LordHavoc, afaik.

This is correct

really? nice to know that.

He also took care of servers f.e when I talked to a local isp here interested in wanting to host a QL server, it went pretty smoothly through him =)

of course its not fps or e-sports. Noone from ID should ever be involved i these again.

of course its not fps or e-sports related. Almost all developers and companies are turning their backs on e-sport online multiplayers. Including ID, EA sports, and pretty much every single company out there. Its why in the IEM, all the games are over 10 years old and iphone looking.

So i guess hes hoping to advertise a console game with this new Indie company. LMAO... imo the guy is delusional. He better go apply at EA fast.

Because only EA can afford programmers to build new fancy engines. A little indie company is only gonna be able to make a crappy iphone game. I'm sorry this is truth... get out of that fantasy.

And if you don't have the graphics and sounds.... ALL YOU HAVE IS MULTIPLAYER GAMEPLAY TO SELL!!!! and if you don't have either....bye bye...

in my opinion in this new age.... online multiplayers is the golden ticket. And all these developers need to leave the industry altogether to make room, they are only stalling it.

you sound like an idiot.

walks like a duck, talks like a duck, probably is a duck.

you sound like an idiot.

We've established this many times in the past.

Almost all developers and companies are turning their backs on e-sport online multiplayers

yeah except for riot, blizzard and valve who are focusing on esports and doing very well. hope youre trolling

Sadly, he's not. Meet Coolout, the best QL boards have to offer.

Like I said....OLD AND IPHONE LOOKING GAMES...


THANKS FOR CONFIRMING WHAT I SAID!!! HAHAHA

lol look at all the industry fools getting their bubble burst open.

Its the truth. and yes cs ... is as old as quake..... SC is as old as quake......LoL might as well be an iphone game, which knocked WoW out of the pvp box. and lets face it WoW is also a game you can run on your p4 haha.


Don't you realize you just proved my point? All the top e-sport games on pc.... are like 10 year old engines. All these games can actually be made by some indie company with less resources... BUT GAMEPLAY AND FAIR COMPETITION ARE THEIR MAIN SELLING POINTS!!!! lol....

Noone is even playing portal or minecraft on the iphone. I don't know who plays those games... gimme a break...


IF you can't afford to develop a game with the latest engines for the latest graphics and sounds. DON"T BOTHER MAKING A SINGLEPLAYER!!! Your only chance is to make an online multiplayer with great gameplay and fair competition.

I'm confused a bit because of the polished nail on the thumb (and also painted to white?)... is that a hand of an eldery woman?

IF you can't afford to develop a game with the latest engines for the latest graphics and sounds. DON"T BOTHER MAKING A SINGLEPLAYER!!!

Holy fucking shit. That's the single most indicative statement of the general mindset of a typical contemporary gamer/consumer i have ever seen. Oh nineties, how i miss you.

ps. What are the latest sounds, anyway?

frostbite

You do realise you just replied to an opinionated moron with who loves to throw opinions with no factual backup, rite?

There average EKSESSIWEMINUS PRIDE retard can probably out-debate this guy c:

That, my friend, is both true and extremely sad. Let us ponder the marvel of a reality where ekscesiwe gentlemenen)) could easily out argue an american youth. This must be a somewhat similar feeling to what Bill Hicks refered to in his "news reporter talks about a guy on lsd" joke. c:

We are all part of the same cosmic identity which reflects on itself c:

I believe seeing a truthful debate between a bunch of retarded poles named after popes who love instagib but hate noghost and still truthful to the Vassals of E- on the "EKSESSIWE VS EDAWNE" war (which exists only in their mind), collection of attention-whoring sub-par intelligent eastern european maidens versus angsty early-teen xboxlive, , /r/edit and qlforum.com adolescents would cause one's internal organs to bleed, similar to the results of opening the arc of the covenenant in the presence of mortals, your mind would not be able to handle it causing a self-implosion :c

Minecraft is an indie game. Seems its doing pretty fine.

I don't know anybody who plays minecraft or portal. I've heard of them.., they've gotten good reviews. But I actually know people who play SC and CS in reality.


do you even play minecraft? I highly doubt it.

Minecraft site has more than 21 million registrations, and they sold (almost) 5 million copies (handheld/mobile sales and - the upcoming - xbox360 not included!) for (approx) 15€ each, not to mention the huge incomes from the other sales areas (store items, advertisements, etc).

I wish if QL could have the same playerbase what that "crappy" game has, and the same income what those "delusional" people are getting:(

All with just word of mouth advertising, too.

so does farmville. NOONE I know... or lets put it this way.

anybody who i can consider a gamer.....is not playing these games

and if i was a developer from ID... i woudln't want to go from quake..or rage....to minecraft and more play farmville.

doesn't mean i consider them games..


to me riot is a better example of a successful indie company man... because LoL is a well respected e-sport and also played by millions. maybe not nearly as much.... but like i said? farmville or these iphone games are played by just as much...and I don't consider those games for avid gamers.

most avid gamers want the latest graphics and sounds.... or great gameplay and competitive multiplayers.

Even though most of the world is playing farmville, or games like this game birds i seen some kids playing on the iphone....doesn't mean i respect those games. Or even consider them video games.

and registering as fake live has shown..... is not the same as actual people playing the game on a daily basis... so i'm not even sure i believe those numbers.

but i can tell you 10s of thousands a day at a time are playing LOL. for a fact.

I'm an avid gamer, and honestly can't care less about graphics. All I care about is the gameplay.
I prefer not to comment on the LOL parts:)

most avid gamers want the latest graphics and sounds.... or great gameplay and competitive multiplayers.

You are a disgrace to all real gamers.

so does farmville. NOONE I know... or lets put it this way.


Peter Noone?

millions play MW3 yet its the most piece of shit game I've ever seen, its not even that great looking, its just the "latest" there is and most hyped.

people are dumb and numbers don't mean anything, when you start appreciating games because of pure gameplay you will realize that.

when you start appreciating games because of pure gameplay you will realize that

And you might realize one day that for most people video games are about having fun and having a chill time. ESR isn't really representational for that though.

Minecraft isn't really even a game, it's a piece of software that includes a sandbox Lego simulator.

It's just a tedious and simplified version of Google Sketch-Up or autoCAD.

I was commenting (continuing stuntz's post) on #52. Did you read #52? It's insane:)

It's true that Minecraft is more like a multiplayer virtual lego or something, but it's still an indie game with a shit load of different modifications available.
There are full scale CTF and deathmatch mods for it btw, with full ww2 weaponry (guns, tanks, planes, teams, teamcolors, and all the required shit:)
It's a game indeed. Someone likes it some doesn't, but it's a game.

Modifications don't make the unmodified a game.

There is an incredibly ridiculous, simple, shallow mining mini-game in the piece of Software but it's so wretched that it's best to be ignored.

People really need to stop treating every piece of software that appears to be a game as if it is one.

you are comparing alpha/beta release to fully released games? how ridiculous.

Minecraft was fully released some time ago, it has RPG elements with end game boss and rolling credits.

What fully released games did I compare it to?

In fact I didn't compare it to any games at all.

"Modifications don't make the unmodified a game"

The community modified Q3 to an awesome game, and now those modifications are implemented or heavily desired in the new official version (QL) as well. The modifications turned Q3 into a good game.

"There is an incredibly ridiculous, simple, shallow mining mini-game in the piece of Software but it's so wretched that it's best to be ignored"

I remember I loved Lego when I was a child. Watching TV was not allowed (we had a black and white TV anyway), so if I was forced to stay inside, then I played Lego or chess all the time until the 80's when I had my first computer.

The 6 years old here only plays Lego or Monopoly or Minecraft. He was never taught to like or play minecraft, he tried it ones and said its the best game ever. He could, but he wants to play nothing else on the computer (he rarelly plays some TF2 or Q3 but he calls them stupid games, because you have to shoot at the others).
He is only allowed to play 2 times a week (4 hours each) with his friends on a server I start for them, but they still build huge houses, train systems, cannals, prisons, police stations, bank, machines, they feed their animals and they open shops to sell what they produce... I can't even list all the things and activities they do there. It's jaw dropping.

I don't really like the game myself, because the movement and the netcode feels choppy (I like the graphics tbh), but I can imagine how exciting this can be if you are a child.
I even remember pictures about monitors full of minecraft at last quakecon. Perhaps I will never like to play it unless they make movement better, but I still think it's an awesome sandbox game with nearly endless possibilities.

Quake 3 on its own is quite clearly a game at its core, not AutoCAD plus a tedious annoying mini-game. The fact that modifications improved Quake 3 doesn't make a damn difference to the quality of Quake 3 Arena itself.

LEGO is not a game. You can create a game on top of LEGO but LEGO itself is just a toy.

Minecraft is just an empty, soulless sandbox.

You seem to be describing the free version. The free version is pretty much just free build lego mode, but that's not true of the full version. In survival mode(paid version), the game is certainly an RPG/survival/sandbox game. You have health, there are monsters, you have hunger, you have experience, you have to mine everything that you need to make things, you have to craft specific blocks and tools, there is a day/night cycle, you can't fly, etc...

Like I said, it's just got an annoying, tedious, rubbish mining mini-game on top.

It's quite a bit more involved than that, and while you may find it annoying, you can't say that it isn't a game.

And I did not. Not explicitly at any rate, I was merely being provocative.

Are you a troll or wtf?
I won't even comment on the Lego part, but Minecraft is not a game?

Have you ever used Autocad or Minecraft (I have btw)?
Autocad might be fun for some people, but it's still "only" a CAD application, while Minecraft is a sandbox game.
There are adventure missions with achievements, objectives, villages with NPCs, experience points and item enchaments, multiplayer, finall boss and whatnot.

Is it up to you to decide what is a game for everybody?

O_O

Fucking hell, there's obviously a massive language barrier here that's preventing you from understanding anything I say. Those are games made out of LEGO; LEGO itself is simply toy building blocks.

If it wasn't obvious enough to you just looking at them, you could read the names of the games themselves maybe? Ninjago, Heroica, Harry Potter Hogwarts, Creationary, Pirate Code, Minotaurus, Magikus et cetera et cetera.

In the same way Minecraft for the longest time was literally just the sandbox and it was only after thousands of the people who bought the beta pressured them into adding some actual game into it that they did.

Secondly, I didn't say it literally wasn't a game; what I said was that it's LEGO with a shit mini-game on top getting in the way of the whole point of LEGO.

Sim City is a sandbox game, Minecraft is a sandbox with a game (a shit one at that).

I might have difficulties expressing myself in English, but I understand everything and there is no language barrier here, you just think that I'm stupid and I know nothing about games and toys, but you are wrong.

I can accept if you don't see the difference between games and toys - since the barrier is never a clear line and it's heavily region dependent as well (e.g: A lot of Japanese games like Nintendogs are only toys for me) -, but blaming others because you don't understand something is never a good idea.
Your example is the best sign for me that you don't know what you are talking about, because Sim City is a perfect game-toy hybrid.

I can also understand if you are only capable of toying with Lego and Minecraft, but that doesn't mean they are only toys, and I had no problem playing a game with them:)

I don't think you're stupid or ignorant, nor do I feel you are having trouble expressing yourself, I just think you didn't understand what I said because you quite clearly did not understand what I said. I know this because of the point and link you made to those board games made out of LEGO.

It seems you cannot differentiate between a game and the components of a game (as shown by both the LEGO link in the previous post and your final paragraph). A ball can be used to play, say Tennis, but the ball itself is still just a toy/piece of equipment.

The difference between games and toys is in fact quite clear in the English language:

Toy

An object [for a child] to play with

The definition I've taken there includes the bracketed text, I've 'removed' it because I think everyone knows anyone can play with toys.

Game

a form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

This is an English language site, I honestly don't care what the Japanese think. The Japanese also call boring simplistic turn-based strategy games RPGs and have game genres like 'Stylish Crazy Action' (Devil May Cry 3). If it's OK with you I'll avoid taking notice of anything the Japanese, culturally speaking, have to say with regards to semantics.

Though your point about Nintendogs is perfect because that is an example of something that isn't really a game at all (I'm being cautious here since I've never played with it) being called a game simply because it's a piece of software on a game machine. Is Gameshark a game too?

Sim City, which is nowhere close to being perfect due to its benign destruction mechanics, was chosen as an example exactly because it is barely a game and in fact, like Minecraft for a long period during development it had no game features at all and was constantly being rejected by publishers for this reason (Eventually he added the mission mode).

But what makes Sim City more of a Sandbox Game than a Sandbox with a game is that the rules and systems are intrinsically linked with the sandbox whereas for the most part Minecrafts are not.

But I do understand you, and I do understand what you said:)

The philosophy behind what parameters can turn "something" into a game are based on different principals in a psychological way for me than how you defining it.
This makes our approach so different, it's very hard for me to articulate my though in English, but I try:

When you are playing with a toy, you are doing it to achieve a feeling (a satisfaction most of the times), so you are doing it because of yourself, because your actions will make you experience certain feelings. It's the toying, the process when you are doing it what will generate the desired sense.

When you play with a game, you accept an external set of rules, namely the rules of the game. The goals, the points, the adventure.... etc,, the objectives of the game what are behind your motivation, and you are doing it to achieve something not internal, something not selfish you could say so.

I only linked that list for you to point out what you should not think of... that's why i said that I won't even comment on your "Lego part":
When I played with Lego, The goal was to build something from those predefined blocks. Blocks I can't define what shape they have. This was the game.. Of course there was an other game because I built a space station and launched a spaceship... but I was not toying when I was building... The external rules were the shapes of the blocks, the limited connectivity (sides) of each block, the colors, the way I had to design things was the game itself, and (for me) Lego was an awesome game.

The philosophy behind what parameters can turn "something" into a game are based on different principals in a psychological way for me than how you defining it.

Also known as the 'I'm going to use and make up my own definitions for words thus contributing to their utter debasement' argument.

I only linked that list for you to point out what you should not think of... that's why i said that I won't even comment on your "Lego part"

Ah yes, "I won't even comment on the Lego part" except with this link to a list of games made out of LEGO, complete with the only context being accusations of being a 'troll'.

So what you are saying is that you agree with me that you can make games out of toys but the toys themselves remain toys?

p.s. If you understood me you wouldn't be calling 'Use LEGO to make a spaceship' a game. Or are actual builders playing a game when they build a house?

1, I just gonna ignore this part, it's almost looks like an insult from a 6 years old child.


2, Do you realize that there were no such things that those (almost) pre-built Lego shits when I was a child? You can't build anything else from those except what's on the front of the box, and those are for retards.
If you can't see that it was a sarcastic link, this is hopeless.


3, I think I can't agree with you on anything, you have clearly no idea about games at all, I can't even understand how are you allowed to be an admin on a gaming site.
You are stating that Lego and Minecraft are not much more than humming tops while they are obviously awesome games in their own genres.
What you are saying would mean that all the industry (other video-game creators at Gamasutra for example), widely respected reviewers and journalist, psychologist, and all the gamers out there were clueless when they gave these two shit tons of awards for being such an awesome games.
And most importantly, you also deciding what are games by looking at their parts and building elements separately and how they are linked, and not by analyzing the mental activity required to play with them, which is insane.


You fail to understand everything I wrote in this thread, you repeating meaningless words and sentences, you dodge the core arguments by replying with partial quotes and I'm pretty sure you just trolling me:(

you have clearly no idea about games at all, I can't even understand how are you allows to be an admin on a gaming site.

Probably because I know the difference between games and toys. I provided you with two definitions from the actually widely respected Oxford American English Dictionary, thus far you've provided nothing more than meaningless gibberish about how they both provide us with feelings.

The philosophy behind what parameters can turn "something" into a game are based on different principles in a psychological way for me than how you [are] defining it

What you are saying here is that you do not care about meaning and prefer to live in the world of insubstantial prejudices based upon unanalysed feelings.

Toys are physical objects, Games are abstract. They do not exist as physical objects in the world per se so you cannot "turn "something" into a game", it either is a game or it is not. You design games and within the design objects may become required components but the objects themselves are not the game itself; this is why you can play Chess without a chess board or pieces.

You are stating that LEGO and Minecraft are not much more than humming tops while they are obviously awesome games in their own genres.

Firstly, even if I was stating that Minecraft was literally just a toy I would not be equating it, or LEGO, to a humming top, they are obviously vastly more complex than a humming top. A toy is a different thing to a game not an inferior version of a game.

Secondly, I didn't say Minecraft wasn't an "awesome game" for its own genre, it's pretty decent for a genre that is seriously lacking in good titles that aren't merely Sim City Redux.

What you are saying would mean that all the industry (other video-game creators at Gamasutra for example), widely respected reviewers and journalist, psychologist and all the gamers out there were clueless when they gave these two shit tons of awards for being such awesome games.

The gaming media is hugely discredited and panned all the time for being utterly clueless, who honestly gives a shit what they think?

ALL THE GAMERS OUT THERE! Yup, because every single gamer out there has been singing its praises and they all have the finest of tastes.

GAME PSYCHOLOGY AWARDS 2011 where psychologists give awards to games such as Minecraft for showing us how people like to build shit, which was a complete revelation, causing real life construction projects all across the world to take place.

As for Gamasutra I expect you'll find more game designers on there who agree with me (That LEGO is a toy not a game) than agree with you (That LEGO is a toy and a game). Not to mention that just because one is a self-titled 'game developer' who writes/reads/posts on Gamasutra isn't to say that one has even taken a second to consider the differences between a toy and a game.

And most importantly, you [are] also deciding what [games are] by looking at their parts and building elements separately and how they are linked, and not by analysing the mental activity required to play with them, which is insane.

LOL, WHICH IS INSANE. What are you babbling about? Where do you get this pseudo-philosophical/scientific stuff from?

What does the mental activity required to play with toys or games got to do with anything?

I've been reading all about games for years, including on sites like Gamasutra and stuff by respected imbeciles like Jesper Juul yet I've never, ever seen someone attempt to call a toy a game because they share similar mental activity.

Do you realise that there were no such things as those (almost) pre-built LEGO shits when I was a child? You can't build anything else from those except what's on the front of the box, and those are for retards.

If you can't see that it was a sarcastic link, this is hopeless.

If it was sarcasm then that would mean that you believe LEGO to be a game and were using that as proof that LEGO could be turned into a game. Thus my initial reaction to the comment was accurate.

What this comes down to is your utterly mistaken belief that LEGO is a game as well as a toy; in reality it is just a toy. Here's an interesting link for you with regards to LEGO being a game:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego

The only time that the words 'game' are used are with specific reference to the LEGO Board and Video Games, which are indeed games. Games made out of physical or digital representations of LEGO blocks.

Please find me a game specific award that has been to given to standard LEGO sets.

You fail to understand everything I wrote in this thread, you repeating meaningless words and sentences, you dodge the core arguments by replying with partial quotes and I'm pretty sure you just trolling me:(

Which 'meaningless' words do I keep repeating? Which 'core arguments' am I "dodging"?

Your core argument is some massively vague and bizarre theory that toys and games can be the same thing due to supposedly sharing a 'mental activity' and a rather intellectually vapid proxy-appeal to authority.

And as for Minecraft I've already stated that, yes, it is a game. My original comment was simply meant as a provocative one (not in the trolling sense).

thus far you've provided nothing more than meaningless gibberish about how they both provide us with feelings.

+

What you are saying here is that you do not care about meaning and prefer to live in the world of insubstantial prejudices based upon unanalysed feelings.

I stopped reading right there... You are lying to insult and provoke me, and ignore the meaning of everything I say... and I just too tired and can't take it no more even if I'm interested in the subject:(

Games are my life, and while I won't start my industry related bibliography here, I can assure you that I love them so much, that they take huge part of my time every day, and probably this attachment will stay with me until I die.
I attended many convention and conferences even before the first E3 and I'm still regular on all the relevant forums and sites as well..... however..... I can't really recall a single person I ever met anywhere who denied the existence of building or sandbox games with all the objectives they have, nor I remember anybody who asked utterly stupid things like: if Lego is a game then every building activity is also a game?

Again, you are not only failing to understand that Lego and Minecraft are all great games because you are only capable of toying with them, but now you are just plain lying to insult and disrespect.

/ignore

Show me where I've lied.

You've not once attempted to explain what you believe a game is and what you believe a toy is, that is to say you haven't defined your terms or even disagreed with mine.

I can't really recall a single person I ever met anywhere who denied the existence of building or sandbox games with all the objectives they have, nor I remember anybody who asked utterly stupid things like: if Lego is a game then every building activity is also a game?

That's not what I said, as I've told you multiple times. Building games are indeed games, Sandbox games are indeed games but LEGO is not a game.

It's odd that you consider such a question as "utterly stupid" because it was a question designed to highlight how if you consider LEGO a game then you can also consider construction as a game if one takes to it with a certain mindset, which is what you seem to be proposing.

Lets look at what really makes up a game as per our Oxford American English Dictionary definition:

• Rules

The rules are like a fence, confining the game to a specific space, giving it a shape and structure. Anything outside of the rules does not belong in the game. These rules only exist within the game and are voluntarily accepted by the players, if they are forced upon a player it is not a game.

They dictate the components to be used, the plays that are allowed and the victory condition.

• Competition

Players compete within the game, there are winners and losers (as defined by the rules). Even in co-operative games players compete against a predetermined situation, i.e. the game system.

• Skill

Games require an element of skill, which we'll define as 'the ability to do something well; expertise' (as per OAED).

• Chance (Luck)

You can play a game multiple times and the course through it will always be different, the course will be unknown and the outcome unpredictable, i.e. you cannot predict with absolute certainty what will happen and who will win.

LEGO has no rules aside from the rules of the natural world; LEGO has no competition unless you introduce it externally i.e. you create a game using LEGO as a component; suffice it to say that LEGO is not a skill based game, I could play with some LEGO today and given enough imagination could create something to rival the most complex of LEGO builds; LEGO has chance but it is unbound by rules.

Components are hardware. Rules are software. LEGO is a component, it is like the computer and peripherals that allow us to play, say, Quake 3 Arena.

So you can design a game that uses LEGO as a component but the game you design also needs to be more than just building X using Y within Z minutes in order to be defined as a game because that would be a puzzle.

like Minecraft for a long period during development it had no game features at all and was constantly being rejected by publishers for this reason

I don't know where you heard this, but it's not true. I'm no fan of Notch, but this isn't one of the things that he's done wrong.

Here is a link to Notch laying out plans for all the survival content just days after he started Minecraft, and if you look back to the other forums he initially announced it on, he had these plans before he even started. Here is the version history, showing survival features as soon as 3 months into the alpha, with survival test mode coming at 5 months into alpha.

He wasn't seeking out publishers, as he never actually expected it to take off. The game didn't even reach release status until 2 months ago.

You've partly misread that sentence/I've not made it completely clear.

Sim City for a long period during development had no 'game features', similar to Minecraft; it was constantly rejected by publishers because of this.

Personally I view the survival stuff In the same light as the natural disasters, which were always in Sim City. As I said I don't mean it literally isn't a game nor indeed that these features did not exist during development (though plenty of them didn't and it was those that I was referring to in the other post, not the survival features) simply that they are practically worthless as mechanics in their implementations.

The game was commercially released ages ago, albeit while still considered a beta product by the developer, it's not the same as a behind closed doors development process.

My knowledge of Notch starts with 'creator of Minecraft' and ends with 'posts stupid opinions on Twitter', oh, and I think he's Swedish.

they are practically worthless as mechanics in their implementations.

Which mechanics specifically?

In the same way Minecraft for the longest time was literally just the sandbox and it was only after thousands of the people who bought the beta pressured them into adding some actual game into it that they did.

Actually, Minecraft had survival features from a very early state (alpha), and he said from the very beginning that he wanted to make it like Dwarf Fortress.

i dont "play" it myself but from what i understand this software has one of the most significant attributes of games: competition. isnt it right that the playesr/users compete with each other for who has the most awesome architecture or biggest scale in their buildings?

So do the users of AutoCAD, which is infinitely more complex and deep.

In fact, they are far more competitive, hardcore and the winners can earn millions, if not billions.

well i didint argue about autoCAD, whatever this is. i just wanted to point out the nature of games and therefore minecraft is a game.

accidently plussed u ;)

Not all competitions are games.

Well, that's the free version. The paid version is more of a game.

That's probably the definitive end of Linux support on id games then.

I didn't know this but apparently he's responsible for the majority of the Linux clients of ID software games. Kudos to him for that :)

the hole can not be filled :(

http://ttimo.typepad.com/blog/2009/09/id-software-and-linux.html

after reading that its clear he did more than he must. he was the linux force in id.

meaning he was a waste of space.

financially linux versions werent important, but it added something for the company image, and maybe helped with linux dedi servers. actually i never understand why linux users havent a win partition for games. whatever. development has changed, theres no time anymore for linux, now consoles are big. nowadays we could be glad that a win version shows up :(

5% linux users among ql players (as ttimo wrote in one of his blogposts) is wortwhile considering that the code was quite portable already.

Why we don't have a windows partition for games? I do, but it's only because of some strange mouse latency in ql/q3 (and other games too but idc) on my hardware. And why I would like to get rid of it?

1. Windows is expensive. (I have it from msdnaa atm).
2. It's inconvenient and irritating to switch os's. Just imagine that every game you play takes 5 minutes to load.
3. It takes a lot of space.
4. It doesn't encourage game developers to write linux versions.
5. Many linux users don't like M$ or even try to run totally free GNU/Linux following the idea of free software.
6. Wine works quite well for many games and ppl who want to play latest games on most expensive hardware probably have windows/console anyway.

im not stupid, i know the arguments even if i dont use linux. some points you said are true. of course its good to support every OS. i wrote the standpoint from the business side. id isnt anymore a independant rich studio. its a calculation, 5% isnt enough. if carmack didnt do a rage ios version (this little iphone game) for android its a calculation too. they did gameboy versions (doom I & II, wolfenstein 3d and orcs & evles for nintendo ds) because it was a mass market.

what i dont get is that some people talk about linux as it were a religion. if you feel offended just forget what i said about linux. im not bashing on linux. in the q3 times i had the feeling that 25% or more did play quake through linux with weak pcs.

i think it started with wolfenstein 2009 (a good singleplayer game) that there wasnt a linux port anymore.

@hackers
quake scene wasnt infectious with cheats like other games. we had a gaming codex. enemy territory for example was full of cheats, quake 3 not so much. now the new school kids cheat massively. and it isnt only a problem for id and quakelive. valve games, cod, bf3 they all face a huge wave of pc cheats.

Just to make it clear - these points weren't the reasons why I prefer linux than windows. They were reasons why I don't want to have second windows partition for games considering that I use linux for everything else.

I think that it's much easier to port game like ql to linux than ios considering that it was done by one person in his spare time (And ios version couldn't technically be just a port I think). Some 'calculations' are hard to actually calculate considering their long term consequences eg. was sending man to moon profitable for US government? And some other things we do just because we want to, not because it's profitable.

what i dont get is that some people talk about linux as it were a religion.

It's because philosophy supporters and believers have a lot in common. By philosophy I mean philosophy of free software movement (ppl often wrongly refer to it by refering to linux). You can read about it here: http://www.fsf.org/about/what-is-free-software (There is a link to more interesting articles on free software at the bottom of that page). Imho it's a really good read for everyone who uses PCs.

I play mainly pub tdm and 1200-1600 elo duels and I don't see anything suspicious. I've played a duel against a guy with wh once and saw like 3 obvious lg bots in pub ffa/ca but thats all in 19 days of time played in last 2 years. I just don't let this atmosphere poison my thoughts and I have a lot of fun playing the game :)

the company image with hackers? people who have hacked their cfg and game for years? maybe by getting rid of linux, they got rid of alot of undesireable players too.

i would of quit too, fuck the sinking ship

I loved him for Linux support. Another step by id to become just another average game developing studio without identity :(

TTimo was for me personally the best guy out there. I had plenty of time problems with my comp and quake live. I have asked for help at QL community forum. I didn't know how and why, but he instant msged me at irc and helped me out. He was probably (for me for sure) community favorite at Quake Live support / help. Funny how some people trash talk about someone who does not know.

i see no one talking trash.

gb & gl frenchy =)

ip ban

he worked on the netcode, anticheat, crossplatforming? this is the 3 things that sux in ql.

Good for him. I'm surprised people stayed at it so long. The creative stimulation when working on QL must non existent.

I agree.

It would be highly interesting to know the insides of the QL development. Or the reasons why things progress so slowly, in terms of what we have gotten in value in from updates. That are so needed for this game if it will ever be a larger success than mildly satisfying a smaller amount of hardcore player, as we are in 2012 if you compare to other popular online games... With the right tools and effort you could make this game so much more, and some of them should be fairly easy to do if you had a few dedicated developers / coders, in particular since the game has been out for so many years already.

I think the QLRanks and QLPrism guys have proven how effective and quick you can do some of the many things that should have been done ages ago by id software themselves.

This just tells me that there must be something a bit wrong with whatever is going on with the Quake live development. If it's lack of time, resource, money, priority or anything else... Not sure if this is known, but at least I'm wondering. However, these things by experience usually come from the top floor, and I have little knowledge about how id software functions as a company. This is just me observing while being a paying costumer since day 1.

With that said, I've always had a positive image about the little I know about Timothee. I wish him the best of luck and thanks for all your contributions to Quake :)

Ps: Not all was perhaps a reply for you Fazz, but don't want to bother with a 2nd post.

Don't forget lack of planning

real life : employee leaves company for whatever reasons.

esr : zomg Ttimo the traitor leaves the qlteam even though he has not worked on ql in years but hey we're completely out of content so whatever, major news.

ttimo is bad-ass

TTimo was heavily involved getting LAN-servers to DreamHack when they did QL Invite for the first time. Was a pleasure to get help and support from him.

QL was the best project I worked on at id by a long shot. Despite having moved off of it 2 years ago, it's still very dear to my heart.

Working closely with such a dedicated player community is a blast. It's not easy to keep a level head with some of you (I'm looking at you Weird), but if you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen.

There's some very solid folks actively working on the QL project. Don't think that they aren't making things better as fast as you'd like because they can't or don't care .. they are operating under difficult constraints.

I'm not doing any eSports related stuff right now .. but I'd hope to get back to it a few years down the road. If I ever do I hope to bring something fresh to the scene.

I still want to meet up with you and Bargle at Quakecon one year and reminisce about Gib O Rama.

tashan dorsett?

i played a match yesterday with that guy bargle hes good.

I could be your nightmare.

they are operating under difficult constraints.

You know we'd love if you were even a little bit more specific there!

Regardless, thank you.

Even the game itself wants you to pull the plug. A miserable existence is not worth living. All you jamerios out there don't take that too personally.

im gonna get you a life for valentines day. dont play this game but post on here about it hourly. jesus man