I think there's not much they can do really. Seems like the QL development team, which is 2 persons on their lunch time, have their hands completely tied.

What I would do though is making permanently available just 1 of those 5 upcoming mods and one current premium map but that's not a reason to subscribe, such as toxicity. That way standard users get something to have fun with, which keeps the game alive for 99% of players, and also they'll think they will get more new content for free in the future (but they aren't really).

If I had total freedom, I'd just copy what riot games did. LoL was smaller than QL for about a year, and now it has dozens of millions of addicted players throwing money to their screens for virtual clothing, having to play one match a day to earn more in game currency and at least every 2 weeks to not lose elo, which in that game is a measure of your penis size.

So, Quake Live needs hats?!

in short, yes. That's how the industry works.
Look at TF2 for example, I bought it a few months after it was released because there was a 50% discount (take note id), and if I had liked it I would have bought the whole quake genre pack (4 quakes) just to get the classic qw rocket launcher for TF2, this after they made the game f2p which gave valve 12x revenue in a couple of months.

Some people will say it's unfair and all that's been said about DLC and subscriptions, but they are just outdated. Gaming it's been like that for years, but of course id software doesn't get it because they release one game every half a decade.

edit: a concrete example. The current subscription model is compatible with releasing special more expensive content that has to be bought separately, like iracing does. Imagine if ztn (or doom model) costed $5: right now carmack would be on mars playing with his rockets and electric cars.
It is the same concept they use in LoL. You are on the back foot if you don't have the currently most played champions, same thing if you don't have ztn. And actually they could do the same thing riot games does, which is changing the game balance so other champions become viable or OP, which is disguised as improving the game obviously, therefore people have to buy them. That's just changing map pools.

That's interesting. What if I could buy ztn, or obtainig it for free as reward for playing X many duels.

on the particular case of QL, I would make it available only if you pay $5 for it. Same for using the doom model, which is personal preference but some people will think it's borderline selling power because of its sounds but it isn't. That's the magic of DLC.

There are many more examples. How about you have to pay for erasing stats or changing your name while keeping them, or for q2dm1, WCP or RA3 map pack (they already have the rights for all of them), more killbeep and taunt sounds, changing your avatar/model in your account page, etc. etc. In the end it's buying things that make the game more fun to play, while also having a core game that's addictive.

I'm not inventing anything here. I think id software lives in their own world. Even epic games managed to destroy them.

I don't like the idea of paying for individual maps much - would lead to similiar problems as we have now.
what would make more sense to me is having one-off payments for stuff like special weapon and player skins, kill beeps or announcer comments - while most of us obviously have no need for these I'd like you to think back in time a little, there were literally thousands of "cool"/funny skins people designed and downloaded for quake 3 - hats essentially, yeh ;) the money is where the casuals are at, sadly they've probably all been driven away by now.
also keep subscriptions as an alternative to one-off payments.

not really. Hardcore players play ztn and not noobs. I'd agree if it was dm6 because of CA.

Also consider that this business model relies on consumers thinking they have to buy extra content. In the end check out the said games, get addicted, subsequently buy DLC/subscription/both.
I know it sounds unfair and everything, but that's how gaming (and life) works. You have to pay extra for better things, and people sell and force you to buy things you don't need or didn't have to pay for in the past.

and I don't like that "everyone left the game already" excuse. Of course id software fucked up massively when the game went open beta and when it was released which caused losing 75% of players, among lots of other bad business and game making decisions, but this is the last fast paced fps game that has some people playing it and it's very improbable that other company will make a good one with a healthy community that lasts for years.
It simply is the last "massive" one. If any efforts are going somewhere they have to go into making this game better, both for us and for id, even if they are incompetent and we don't have any control over the project. Alternative is letting this specific genre die when id inevitably shuts QL down.

I agree it might work for ztn and aerowalk for instance, for team modes however I don't think it's a good idea.

sounds like another huge waste of time. the QL suggestions forum is filled with over 3 years worth of highly agreed on suggestions and opinions. too bad theyve never bothered to actually read any of it.

NERF LG
NERF RL
GIVE US SPACE CAMP
MAKE POWERUP SPAWN RANDOMLY

ye sure highly agreed on

i never said that those were? obviously they arent. if you actually read the suggestions forum you would know which suggestions are top priority ones that have been agreed upon by the majority of the players and have been requested for a while now.

Please, leave this thread alone.

ahah nope

I completely agree with this. LOL is a good model for QL to follow. Even though I don't play LOL, I get it.

well if we leave out features that are non-existing as of now completely there isn't much room for changes, in that case I'd say keep everything as it is except make maps and mods available to everyone. While it might make sense not to have some things in the free version (hud customization comes to mind) you obviously can't/shouldn't take away things from people if you don't want them to get massively pissed.
I might add how I would do it if there was room for some more drastic changes/if it had been done differently from the get-go later.
in any case id should try to find a way to combat adblockers more efficiently though I have no idea how/if that can be done.

adblockers?

umad.

THere is already ingame ads that cannot be removed even with private servers for serious business/

Also, haha look, it's one of thoose threads.

Just keep all the maps and gametypes free (i.e. basic content) but make people pay subscriptions to start servers, and to start clans, etc. since most subscribers tend to lean on the competitive side. A lot of the premium content doesn't get played a lot as much of it is more geared to casual players, (note: not a bad thing) but if moved to standard all of it would be played much more frequently. It's not a bad thing at all to have a lot of content for different audiences (you can avoid some things and go for others, no one is forced into playing anything they don't like), but it has been promoted and distributed the wrong way IMO.

If making the maps / gametypes free makes more people play, then the costs won't be covered by the competitive people paying to spawn servers etc, since even now they don't cover the costs. Ads certainly won't cover the costs either.

the costs won't be covered by the competitive people paying to spawn servers

In a free maps model these people would become a minority among pro subscribers spawning servers, because suddenly it would make sense to buy a pro sub even if you are, say, a tier 2 iFT player or a tier 3 CTF PQL player. Just spawn your serv and players will join.

gametypes + maps free for all -> more players -> more exposure -> more sponsors and ad-income

you could make people pay for stats, spawning servers, getting rid of ads, some little features like killbeep and people would pay for the right to update their qlranks account or something related to that i'm sure.

and yeah it comes without saying integrate qlranks.com with ql, works well atleast for duel (you don't have to necessarily lose 200 duels before you gain your first win) id should pay them a little and could expand their ads to qlranks.com too.

another wild idea was to make a short official intro vid for quakelive that would appeal to casuals/noobs/everybody, because ql is a game that could provide an intro that would appeal to everyone interested in fps games. then, advertise the intro! D=

Most promising idea I've seen on this site by an individual:D

I just imagined a "host" account subscription, that costs X times as much as the "pro", but allows you to spawn servers where premium content can be played by standard users.

http://www.esreality.com/post/2241159/#pid2241159

I wrote the same when this business scheme started being used in QL. Y U NO PLUS ME.

All newb gametypes available for free to get people addicted.

Maximum number of games / max playtime per month on free accounts. Setting this threshold will be difficult though. People won't like this change at this point because it changes the "free to play" statements, but IMO it is the only way that would be get enough people to pay if you give the gametypes / maps away for free. Would also need to be linked with the ability to prevent duplicate accounts - eg track accounts against PC hardware (cpuid, mac address etc), although this will break shared PCs.

Possibly make Duel (and TDM?) premium only since there is little point in newbs playing until they are vaguely experienced from the newb modes and once you aren't newb you should be paying. Possibly just a lower max games threshold for different gametypes?

Maps maybe given to prem/pro early to give them a head start on them, but trickling down to free eventually.

Pro still get all the server spawning / clan creation bits as currently done.

The most important element in getting people to invest and play more is to focus on a clear progression structure, where players can see they are moving up the ladder and achieving something. Visual evidence that they are improving and assistance in helping them make the next steps.

I mapped out how I thought the game modes should operate in the Quake Live forums back in the closed beta stage but id either don't listen to any ideas that might be more than subtle tweaks to the models that already existed 15 years ago, or simply are not interested in exploiting a sub-genre they have a practical monopoly on.

Anybody that thinks Quake does not have the potential for significant financial returns, does not understand just how much money can be made on the internet. With the correct model that supports new users id could be cleaning up with Quake right now, but they just don't have any real vision or strong focused leadership on this project.

Clearly Quake Live was a rush job, had no real planning involved and is still being treated as a hobby (as apple would call it). It is really depressing to think with all the positive elements behind Quake that id could really blow it as badly as they have.

Can you be more specific? I'm really interested.

Yes, I just need to think of the best way of doing it. Might be better to discuss it on stream.

Imo its easy. I just don't get why id is giving away so much stuff for free users. That makes a subscription seem less attractive.

The content should only be divided by standard servers and premium servers.

Free users - play on standard servers, need invite to premium servers
Premium sub - may join premium servers without restrictions
Pro sub - spawn servers

Thats pretty much like it is now. But nobody plays premium servers. Not even subscribers. Because its just about maps. But if it was about game customization(teamsize etc) I believe premium servers would be more populated.

Suggestions:
- Remove voting on standard servers completely (teamsize, map, shuffle). Run standard servers with fixed settings, rotation and auto-shuffle
- Make standard server settings less appealing to experienced players
- Make subscribers watch ads on standard servers, too
- Get rid of the standard/premium maps separation. Steal the LoL approach. Make X maps available for standard users every two weeks.
- New gametypes/settings etc available for subscribers like it is now

Imo thats enough. For casual free users the experience might even improve due to the map rotation and auto-shuffle. It prevents teamstacking, pub server hugging by clans, etc., while subscribers finally have an incentive to populate premium servers.

ja, mein fuhrer

Nice post. This is exactly what I'm looking for. [+]

I like the suggestion of making the server options be valuable content (because they are valuable indeed), as well as the map rotation, which would have many benefits, besides the potential monetary return.

I think small map pools with fast rotations may do the trick. The community would be less divided as people would play all maps.

Premium content would be much more advertised. Currently, the only option is to get an invite, which I would guess is not exploited widely nor often.

All game modes could then be free.

To reiterate what you are saying:

Free Servers (anyone)
- All game modes
- Limited map pool (weekly rotation)
- No voting
- Ads for everyone (?)
- Auto-Shuffle

Premium servers and pro abilities are they are now.

I wasn't so sure about the gametypes.

Its either
a) standard types (ffa, duel, tdm, ctf, ca and insta mode) are free, new ones not
b) every mode is free but limited by server functionality
c) mode rotation

I think if cutting the free server functionality works as intended, the new gametypes should all be available to free users. At least some form of rotation (like "every first week(end?) is free-freezetag", etc pp)

In any case the premium servers would remain empty.

instead of the lol approach, let's go for the tf2 approach

everything's free

cept
- custom skins
- funny tophats

Only works if you remove forcemodel.

which would be fine, possibly even better, on low tier ffa servers for instance, which is I think is where almost all of the casual actions happens

edit: obviously I don't mean to support the "everything's free" argument, just saying making money out of custom skins might not be such a bad idea

Skins and hats work if others do actually see them.

every gametype should be free imho, premium maps should stay premium tho

make a ladder for subs
gtv

\:D/

Ladder should include all players, but only subs can view rank, match history etc.
So it's useless without subscription but matches played by pro/prem against free users are still counted.

A possible compromise:
Your rank is only updated once every couple of weeks/months if you're a free user. With premium, it gets updated after every match.

That way, a free user will still notice after some weeks that he made some progress and he'll want to keep track of it by buying a subscription.

(E.g., the table tennis ELO ranking in Germany uses this system. Your rank only gets updated once every 3 months if you don't pay. You get immediate updates when you buy a subscription.)

me likes the spirit

Some good ideas mentioned here.

I would do it like this:
- all maps and gametypes should be free
- only pro/prem members can start a vote (exception shuffle)
- only pro/prem can start and join a clan (clan pages should be much more customizable)
- pro/prem can add more things to their profile page like config, "bio", hardware etc
- pro/prem get to play the new content 1 month earlier
- only pro can host a server
- if possible pro get the option to autoupload demos to the quakelive site
- gimmicks like custom skins etc for pro/prem

no one is going to buy a premium or a pro account if all maps and gametypes are available to everyone.

only pro/prem members can start a vote (exception shuffle)

Good luck having a pcw or a pickup match when you can't change the map.

I don't think that is true at all tbh, don't underestimate people's good will when it comes to things they enjoy - look at the recent success of kickstarter-funded games for example. besides you'd still need to pay for server spawning, freedom from ads etc etc

that's way different. A QL kickstarter wouldn't get more than a $1000.

We could try that for the lulz

I for one would be more enticed to renew my subscription if maps and modes were free but maybe that's only me.

If you want a fast paced fps from kickstarter, make Painkiller 2.

this + Pro should be able to let a server live even if they aren't connected to the game and to set a MOTD.

Like that there could be some server where people plays together by abit without having a clan.

I think there is one simple design.
If you need to maximize the income and number of players you need to make a game totally paid. (only prem and pro for a half a year, pro can start a server)
If content will be good, people will pay for it. Content quality (maps, modes, weapons, models, netcode,) = $$$ for ID
If not - there are a lot of good maps at lvlworld and we have free cpma.

not to sound like negative nancy, but u guys are just wasting ur time. everything mentioned so far in this thread has been mentioned a billion times last year, and a billion more times the year before, and the year before, on here, and on ESR. when will people learn that ID doesnt care?

and even if they did it would take years before we seen even one of these suggestions being implemented since they dont have anywhere near enough people on their devteam. the useless occassional updates they push out that we dont ask for are just to give you a false sense of hope that this game doesnt tank any second now. we'll never actually get an anticheat, premium content free, etc etc..pointless discussion tbh.

also most if not all of these suggestions can easily be found posted in the QL suggestions forum from months ago where its been rudely ignored by the devteam and then buried by other pointless suggestions as well.

i understand the effort of memento for creating a thread like this and trying to have all the top highly agreed on suggestions "organized" in one place, but i feel his effort's are wasted since this thread eventually will be buried under the next few days unless it gets Majored and also i doubt this will affect the direction of the game that theyve chosen for it one way or another lol.

when this gets buried under other threads here, an organized website or a wiki wouldnt be a bad idea for something like this though.

Thank you for you warning. Your concern about time being wasted is remarkable and surely appreciated.

thx u2, i dont believe ive ever seen a thread like this created before.

I see, that's why you haven't learned yet to simply ignore stuff you consider a waste. It will come.

no but ID has

Nice one. I guess I should follow my own advice.

Meet utard. :))

QL is only worth if it it was free.

I think, first they should let go of premium/pro crap and make it simpler: either you are subscriber or you're not.
Then they should get rid of total separation of premium content from all the other game and instead just introduce strict limits for free users. For example, they get only 10 premium games per week, where you can either join a pub game, or even start your own server, while subscribers get everything unlimited (plus no ads, exclusive pro settings, and stuff like that).
Just starting from stimple stuff like this would already make situation a lot better. Then if they focus their team on adding features instead of exclusively content, it will create other opportunities to provide extra value for subscribers.

For now I would leave it as it is except I'd make Freeze Tag free during weekends and add options for 6 months and lifetime subscriptions. And then I'd slowly develop features until this model could be activated:


All old maps, premium scoreboards, commands and Freeze Tag would be free.
Maps that come with new update would be playable by PRO subscribers before they would be released for free after 1 month.

There would be only one type of subscription- PRO. Current PREMIUM members would get converted to PRO and current PRO members would get additional 4 months subscription bonus.

There would be 2 types of ladders:
QL Ladder similar to QLRanks and PRO Ladder.
You would get PRO points for winning and participating in official tournaments. Number of PRO points could also be used as qualification for QuakeCon and other big tournaments.

Official tournaments
Players would be able to browse tournaments through the main site as well as sign up. Old tournaments could be easily found on the site and demos would be available for download. Only PRO players would be able to participate in officially ranked tournaments.


You would have to pay $5 to start a tournament that would be officially ranked.

For that you would get:

-Tournament page
-GTV enabled on your server
-server side demos enabled and later available for download
-id admin/judge that would monitor the games (call timeout in case of lags, give warning to players if trashtalk gets out of hand etc)


PRO Features:

- No ads
- play new maps for 1 month before they get released for free
- Ability to spawn servers
- Ability to start and manage tournaments
- Participate at the official leagues and tournaments
- PQL
- Defrag
- GTV
- Start your own clan
- Manage clan page
- option to download server side demos (from tournaments and Defrag)
- upload your own forum avatar

- Enhanced profile page:
- upload profile picture
- upload your config and make it available for download (public or private)
- Gallery
- post blogs
- guestbook
- add link to your website
- add link to your sponsor
- embed youtube videos (for fragmovies)


EDIT: Fucking wall of text. I wanted to drop a few lines but then I couldn't stop myself

actually no. not wall of text at all. good post.

the key thinkgi like about your post is that pro features include stuff on the website. the content on the website is one of the key things that makes ql stand out from most other games. hell i would pay for a pro account if i could do things like have a customizable page with the ability to upload videos, link streams etc etc and have other people see it. and obviously the start your own tournament and invite players through the website would also be awesome.

as i keep repeating in most discussions about the ql idea, any ql related content could and should go through the ql website. and thats where i see the most potential for income generation.

configs linked to profile is great, i hoarde configs!

No idea why, but I'm in the same boat haha

remove free to play for a month.. then see how many cheap ass bastards pay for it!

We all know quakelive has a lot of problems but if you're like me and an old fart whose played quake for almost 13 years, you're happy to pay for premium :)

yeah, same

Everyone should have access to all maps and all gametypes but the premium gametypes should be playable only on pro servers. So it's up to the community to provide some servers for itself.

Public servers default settings should be 'large' (16 players FFA, teamsize 6 in CA/CTF/iCTF/TDM), only subscribers should be allowed to callvote a different team size there.

Everyone should have access to a QL match arranger (pickups). Premium subscribers adding there would have a higher chance to play in their own country (or where they have the lowest ping), and pro subscribers even a higher chance cause they gonna host the serv in the end.

Pro subscribers should have some options in advanced settings like 'Use my account for spawning servers when I'm not online' (on by default), and 'Use my account for spawning servers even when I'm online'. So you just need 1 pro account per server, not 1 'pro' player per server.

And if you think that's not enough you can add a lot of cool stuffs/advantages for your subscribers, like more cvars, more colors, more models, a mailbox, the ability to erase and hide your stats, the ability to callvote g_gametype on any server, a less restrictive anti chat flood system, a stats search function, RA3 medals, Q4 medals, the good old coach functionality, premium pk3 (blue rockets, black rail trail, etc.), a premium +acc, a demo player, QL offline, GTV, MVD, a wolfcam-like coded by brugal, LAN support, dedicated servers, etc...

Also, what ArNoz said.