Me.

Cypher in his prime and on fire > Rapha in his prime and on fire

Incoming shitstorm

Entirely true.
Cyphers overall skills are more complex (even though he lacks in timing) and... well, just look at the DHS 2011 vods.

Not to mention Cyphers awesome movement and speed.

and his totally "what the fuck just happened?" style... his dmg output can be as good as av3ks

Yeah, his 200 dmg from nowhere is a known trademark.

Not entirely false, but abudantly: Rapha overall skills are more complex ( his bigger limitation is the raw aim ) and..well, just look at his overall resume.

Not to mention Rapha awesome movement and speed, often the best between the pros.

Well put man rapha's movement is up there with the all time bests like z4muz, toxjq.

nah, with on-fire aim(90% rail vs strenx for example), no sens bug and his superior intellect he would rape cypher.

FFS STUPID CUNT


IT HAPPENED ONCE... HE DID HIT 22 AGAINST CYPHER NEXT DAY

not to mention it was mostly due to his superior positioning and strenx rage

This.

I wish people would stop using that game to show Rapha's aim can be good, there are far better examples . I mean at quakecon 2011 he was out-lging Strenx at times. Much more impressive than hitting high rail percentage for one game.

why hate the rail :( ? quakeworld player ?

I LOVE YOU TOO HITSU !

Please leave.

Agreed. This is why exactly the reason why I say Cypher is the best Quaker ever because he can potentially put out the most unstoppable performance. Rapha is a beast, extremely consistent, always a contender for 1st and has won many titles but when Cypher's firing on all 8 cylinders, everyone else is only firing on 4 or 6 at 'their' best and that's why he's the best in my eyes. He can be magical/mind blowing to watch.

the only player who could stop tox when he is hitting 60lg and 999999rail is cypher

C O O L L E R
O
O
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L
E
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S P A R T 1 E
P
A
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1
E

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;)

S P A R ...
P
A
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disconnected.

A V E K
V
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or...

V o 0
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I dont have the statistics but i am pretty sure rapha has the better cut. but how do you define who is better? rapha surely handles pressure better and runs down his game very cool. on the other side cypher can make mirracles happen, when u think he loses he pulls a rabbit. i go with cypher is the better online player and more creative and rapha is the better lan player.those 2 styles are very hard to compare.

cypher is really bad online compared to on lan :p
His elo reflects that as well.

imo it is primarily his ping.

see, and this is when weird disagrees against all evidence.

Not one of these again...

dude these threads are awesome

So many retarded kids on this forum and site, unbelievable. :(
(about thread author)

can't judge the author by this thread, nothing wrong with it

so all beginner QL players that just have shown interest in the professional dueling scene are retarded? yea, go ahead and edit that post one more time

Of course not.

so why are you accusing me, the thread author, of being "retarded?" because my interest in the QL duel scene didn't start at the same time as yours? i would love for you to elaborate how that relates to intelligence

No idea whos better, but I like rapha more, even though cypher is a likable person too. :)))

Tbh theres no answer to that that question, its always gonna be subjective. Cypher was better in some tournaments and rapha in some, duh.

stupid question... ofc fatality is better than both of these nubs :X



[this gunna be great thread btw]

Rapha in his prime is/was not beatable in a series.

:D

it only took a while for others to adapt to his style. i guess k1lsen was the first to break his series

if by break his series u mean that rapha was hitting sub 20 acc's vs k1llsen's averaging 50+ rail and 40+ shaft, ya I guess. There was nothing he figured out about rapha that others couldnt. k1llsen just hit everything and rapha even said in a recent interview that when u hit that much, u can kinda just do w/e u want. He tried to create opportunities for himself, but it didn't work out with him not having a level of aim needed to beat k1llsen.

after that rapha started losing though. his unbeatable monster era was over

so what?

aim is part of the game, and even tho i dont think you need aim to be good, its element you need to be a champion

you're saying, that in a first person shooter, you DON'T need aim to be good? lolplz

yes, you dont need aim to be good in a first person shooter...

quake is much closer to pacman mixed with shogun than fps

that's not true. you might think rapha is some sort of "all brain" player, but he will out-lg 99% of the quakelive player base. same with anyone else you'd consider "all brain" (w/e that means)

why he doesnt then? stable good aim helps a lot in duel...


also there are guys like agent, alfaomega, av3k in q3[who said himself he doesnt aim, just pacman]...


now, there is a question what does "no aim" mean...hittin zero lg is horrible, and nothin will help you, but hitting 20pc with stack and position advantage is enough to be good

there is no top-tier player that hits <=20 lg

we have a term of comparison: heartless vs spartie on thunder. heartless outshafted him, not my much, but enough to win. so, mutatis mutandis (spartie shaft>rapha shaft and heartless shaft>or = to top tier, i.e. non-pro, player), rapha's shaft vs top tier player=... ah crap nothing comes out of that inference does it :d

K1llsen on fire is the unbeatable machine in ql.

Fixed for ya

That's just not true

no, sorry.

FINALLY SOMEONE AGREES WITH ME

K1llsen on fire at adroits got pwnd by Cypher in one of the most stunning finals i have ever seen talent-wise. Sadly, Adroits failed enough to destroy any evidence of that final

http://www.quakehistory.com/en/tournaments/0,107

oh! The vod is there!!!!! I thought the vods from the finals were gone :DD

cypher just spammed him with rockets like a screb

rapha is the better player. his composure and professionalism is pretty much unmatched by any other "e-sports" player

But cypher is the better quaker

As far as i know, Rapha is actually the most overall succesfull Quake Live player, in terms of grand total of money earned;

the problem with Rapha is that for a long time he had not the possibility to put his hands on a connection good enough to permit him to play online; because adsl wasn't present in his zone, he only had modem connection, wich is not even considerable to play at some levels; so for years the only thing he could do was watching demos (!) , he mentioned ones of Cooller (you don't say...), Lexer, Zero4 and others;

Having him the possibility to play online earlier, he with all probabilities would be stronger and with way more experience, actually; he still manged to win a major lan in the last times of q3, beating strong players;

Even with his huge lack of experience at an age in wich the likes of Cypher and Coollers were building their skills, he still managed to beat them all, at lan, even on ztn, various times;

To this add the fact that due to his high distance to Europe he cannot play online (too much ping), and has difficulties in travelling, and you have the fact that he his substantially exluded from all of the minor competitions of here (zoraccs, facit, etc. etc.); so, being he living here, he could add a lot of online cups to his already impressive resume (expecially considering that at the age all of the other quakers were developing the skills, all he can do was playing bot, some friend in home lans, and watching demos; and this is simply astonishing. )

good point, for cypher it was easier, he could just playplayplay

when did rapha start playing competetively? And when playing seriously online?

i am sorry, i can't respond with precision to this; we shall just wait some aknowledged guy to inform us, and then plus him to vomit;
i even lost the link to the site with the major videogames earner, i thought i saved in the bookmarks, but you know, bookmarks doesn't anything but accumulate more and more

ESWC Athens 2008 was when raffer won his first major lan, but he's been spotted in Quakecon photos from many years ago.

Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_Hendrixson

i remained to his old wiki profile, the one i saw some years ago, it wasn't so well written

bs.....


he got z4 as mentor

I agree with this. But...

Perhaps not being able to practice Quake is one of the reasons why Rapha became so good. His game style is one of the most theory based, reactive styles, and I think this probably developed because he spent a lot of time watching and thinking about demos before he could play properly.

If he could play more from an earlier age he might have focused less on this; lower level, younger quake players are normally more interested in execution aka aim.

However, this execution is also what seems to let Rapha down when he loses; he makes the right decisions but sometimes struggles to follow them through with aim (eg losing to Killsen at Gamescom). But maybe if he had started playing earlier he would not make these right decisions to begin with.

However, definitely by 2009 onwards he would have benefited enormously from living in Europe - so many opportunities to keep his execution honed.

In short, Rapha is the best Quake Live player.

after chypa


and i dont even mention cooller

yes, it's better you dont even mention cooller, considering he almost never beated Rapha in direct matches... just because their styles collides, Rapha does the things that Cooller does better than him, and finally, Rapha grew up watching and admiring Cooller, hence he knows his style and how to counter it... just like Cypher.

rapha atm is one game master, as players didnt have time to get used to his style in q3... and his the master of game that suits him the most, just like q4 suited tox...

cooller is cooller - you dont understand why hes so great... his ability to adapt to game is superior... q3,q4, promode q3, and ql...

im ashamed to admit it: i was cooller hater, because of his +back style he used at iem5... but i saw how great he is after hitbox update, that allowed more aggresive game... and suddenly, cooller didnt +b for 10 minutes, because it wasnt the best possible style for QL!

Rapha is potentially the quake master, because Cooller himself admitted that Rapha is the fastest to adapt to a new map, and his succesfull and fast adaptation to ql show that he would as well do great things in any other quake; plus, his style is not aim-only based, so he can win even when his aim is off;
I've always been a Cooller admirator, because of his brilliant, unusual, original style, but it's not difficult to say that Rapha is stronger, considering how little practice he required to dominate in a game cooller and the others have been playing since kids, and this is a immense advantage for them all.

Plus one for ya babes. muwah <3

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Nice skills, bro. :)

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Lol, I've already done this in October.

Looks like it's becoming popular :D

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Windows 8. I'd post it here but it contains private info of other people :)

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Nope, made it for business case competition :)

I suppose it's way too informal for seeking a real job :)

And you?

.

I wonder if it would pass screening at MS :D

Please pm me if you get a answer from them :)

.

Yeah, I know, but I suppose your background is pretty enough to pass screening :)

Ate least I've passed screening at BCG and McKinsey, which should be harder than MS, and I'm not very impressive :)

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Then just google it :) As far as I remember Mckinsey was the hardest firm to get into as for 2012, ahead of google and amazon. And BCG :)

true pro

yea, but more importantly whats your LG %?

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id say subpar, but your "Clean License" makes up for it

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have you already used it to look for a new job?

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LOL why not? maple syrup, nirvana and st.andreas fault !
would bang it.

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could be nice to live in remond for a while.

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yes, in #78 MS=microsoft, right?

.

I know who I'd rather watch

.

air_avek

i would actually rank cooller > cypher while ranking players, it would go 1) rapha, 2) cooller, 3) cypher, 4) av3k. mainly due to how many 2nd places cooller got behind rapha, while cypher placing top 4 behind those 2. cypher won a lot of DH's and Qcon's when they pretty much became shitty LAN based zotacs. ofc with the exception of 2010. Now that I edited this post and come to think of it, he actually won a lot of shit lol. I think im wrong about the cooller>cypher. It should be cypher > cooller. but again, i think its the case of a > b > c > a, where if cooller came up vs avek, he could beat him most of the time, but if he came up vs cypher, he could lose very easily. But rapha definitely #1, since he never had a 'mental block' against any of the top4/8/16 players, he could beat anyone who was in his way, with maybe the exception of fox... i dont think fox ever lost to rapha. maybe i'm wrong. dont know my statz

lulz, dude...

are you aware cypher is cooller's kryptonite?

Comes down to personal preference, both are extraordinary players and each one of them excels in different skills.

Rapha is the mastermind of the game. His mindset and calm nerves bring him victories.

Cypher is the artillery of quake, he's probably the most efficient aggressive player and has a lot of finesse that mere mortals cannot comprehend.

av3k > chypa

Never.

always, check their record...

av3k>chypa>cooller>av3k

who won more lans in QL? Probably cypher.

lans in ql? rapha ofc...

but i belive cypher won more rapha-chypa finals

I wouldn't be sure. At the beginning rapha won most of them, but there's a point in which cypher did the same.

Can someone count them?
Are all intl quake lans listed in quakehistory? Adroits and others count as long as lots of top players from different countries attended, like it was at adroits.

yeah, some nerd would have to count it, but i still belive rapha has more #1... just because in the ql start era there was more tourneys...

maybe have a look here
http://www.esportsearnings.com/games/7/quake_live

probably rapha in terms of strategy but cypher has the better skillset but his temper has never been best.

What is this?

Guy asks a simple question of the overall game score between rapha and Cypher, or comparison of their life winnings.

Proper answer would look like xx:yy, X won more.

And yet all I see is people saying who's their favorite (not necessarily out of the two). And one guy even insulting thread author for simply asking this interesting question?

adobostreak, are we surrounded by idiots?

you're posting on an open forum that allows anonymous comments. not only are you surrounded by idiots, but you are one of the idiots surrounding other idiots, idiot.

thank you for understanding.

you completely compensated for the other poster above from Poland who insulted my intelligence, while refusing to answer the question

Welcome to ESR

dunno, it's close i guess. both beat each other kinda same number of times... titles, again kinda same. only thing i can think of atm is have they ever played each other when both on top form? ugc was rape, but rapha said he had mouse issues then.. cypher winning 2011
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rapha+cypher+dreamhack+winter
and
rapha winning 2012
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=r...c-Jtit_Vas

Don't know, but they are in the top 5 GOAT list.

more like top 3

...what about thresh, cooller, unkind, lexer

..thresh? seriously? What about Fatal1ty, so...
Cooller is one of the three, unkind is one of the bigger waste of potential and talent ever, unfortunately, and lexer is not even close to what the other guys have won, or in terms of career longevity, IMO.

Yes, I am serious. As far as I know, Thresh lost only one 1v1 in his professional career. Considering this he is the most dominant Quake player in history. To put things in perspective, dem0n just beat Cooller 25-5 on Aerowalk.

No, you can't be serious. Thresh is known to choosed the events to take part by the level of the opposition, preferring relatively small events if not "strong" players were in;
It's exactly like in professional boxing, there are some rare boxers of various categories that has a perfect score, meaning unbeated; but with few exceptions, they are generally meaningless, because they are padded records, bulked up by fighting just "tomato cans", weak opposition.
To this, add the level of the competition of these times: it was the very beginning of the concept itself of pro-gaming, the overall level of skills was incredibly low, compared to the actual ones in every pro-gaming game, and even compared to the actual level of Quake 1; if you don't believe it, go watch some of his matches, and after watch quakeworld matches from 2005.... it's like comparing Fatal1ty's matches to 2008's quake 3 matches.... not even the same "sport".

"To put things in perspective, dem0n just beat Cooller 25-5 on Aerowalk. "

You think that this sums up Cooller's career. You cannot be serious.

Fatality played at the same time thresh did. Fatality stood absolutely no chance against anyone at that time. So did czm, fox, etc., but thresh won every single tournament he attended or participated online, on several games. That record is unmatched to this day, and actually his tournament winnings could be higher than fatality's considering inflation, not to mention that he is most probably by far the highest earning former professional player of all time (selling firingsquad and related sites before the bubble burst, founder of xfire, etc.)

Also fatality is known for dodging competition. Personally I don't know about anyone who dodged more than him, retiring from q3 the exact moment competition appeared after his one year of dominance then all the fishy parts of his career happened. I also find funny that he is the gaming legend when there are at least 5 players that won more duel fps gaming tournaments or have a better career than him: marketing really does wonders.

And QW and Q1 (netquake) aren't comparable; they are different games. A better example would be q2.

watch a game of thresh's and then claim that he is one of the top 5 greatest quake 1v1ers of all time... also, i remember him losing to immortal in q2....

Everyone played at the time yet they lost by 60 frags margins to him, including fatality. That's why pele is considered to be the greatest soccer player of all time no matter on his prime there's no way he could compete against messi.

Also consider netquake was pretty different than qw. With that said his quake bible is very impressive for the time.

That's probably the one defeat it was talked on this thread. Thing is he still won every single offline and online tournament he ever played in all games, while he didn't dodge competition like fatality did all the time and with fishy tournaments since like 2003. Not even the most successful quake players of all time, which are cooller, rapha and cypher, won 33% of their events lol.

"Everyone played at the time yet they lost by 60 frags margins to him, including [b]fatality{/b]."

Pardon me interrupting the discussion but i don't recall fatal1ty losing to thresh or even facing him in an online and offline event.

If you may, could you provide us a demo or let even a news article about it to defend your claim. Thanks

?? You serious? Fatal1ty played several years AFTER Thresh disappeared from competitions, they never clashed, Thresh only played quake 1 seriously... Try to wonder why he quitted the gaming competitions so quickly, why he had a career so short? Seriously, compare some of his matches to recent matches on Q1, they are not even comparable.
Additionally, how much he earned OUTSIDE gaming competitions means nothing for his GAMING COMPETITION career earning; otherwise, if Bill Gates ever managed to win even a local quake event, he would automatically be "the highest earning quake player", counting all the moneys he made with company.

There is some evidence that Fatal1ty dodged competition, but not Thresh. None that I know of anyway. If you would elaborate I'm interested. It goes without saying that since esports has become more established there is better competition around the world. This doesn't give anybody the right to discredit what Thresh did in his era, though. When Billox won the Quakeadelica London tournament Thresh took him on and won 56 to -1. Not even close. The only credit I'll give you is that Thresh never officially competed in Quake 3. There are rumors he used an alias, but no confirmed demos have surfaced. Therefore, unfortunately, we don't have any idea how he would have performed in Quake 3. Also, I did not write that to summarize Cooller's career. I used it as an example to show that even though Cooller performed poorly he is still a legend. Thresh was never handled like that. Not once.

"There is some evidence that Fatal1ty dodged competition, but not Thresh."

As far as I know, Fatal1ty defeated Makeveli, LakermaN, Rix, Timber, Kane, Immortal, Blue, Shub, Xenon(clan9), DOOMER.

on the other hand Thresh never defeated or even competed with the likes of Zero4, Polosatiy, b100.death, Cooller, Wombat, Vo0, Toxjq, Czm, Stermy, Lost-Cauze, ZyZ, Ztrider, Aim, Prozac, Socrates.

I never claimed Fatal1ty didn't beat good players, but there are suspicious decisions he made regarding the tournaments he participated in. It's not all glory, so I don't blame him if it was intentional. He had a very successful career.

"but there are suspicious decisions he made regarding the tournaments he participated in."

Like what?

google. This reply goes to all your posts actually lol

"Everyone played at the time yet they lost by 60 frags margins to him, including fatality."-megaman3

If your just going to make up stories and lies, better luck next time sir.

Retribution: "but there are suspicious decisions he made regarding the tournaments he participated in."

Anon: Like what?

megaman3: google

Oh so fatal1ty made suspicious decisions because of google. nice

This has been discussed a million times already on this site. It's not like I have to google it up for some anonymous people (that are fat himself and that other dude that hates me).

"Everyone played at the time yet they lost by 60 frags margins to him, including fatality."-megaman3

If your just going to make up stories and lies, better luck next time sir.

Talent pool back then<<<<<Talent pool during q3/qlive prime

That's like saying: web design back then < web design now.

It's unfair to judge Thresh this way. He completely dominated his era and there wasn't anybody better than him. If in 10 years everybody is hitting 60% LG and 80% RG would you disregard rapha, cypher and cooller? No, that would be ridiculous.

no, that would be just fair: remember, we aren't disregarding peoples or sportmans, we are just judging the raw skills; the web desing example is wrong, the level is undoubtedly higher actually than he was back then, you can judge with your own eyes; if there will ever be someone "hitting 60% lg" (and maybe doing something else?), and those guy will achieve more than rapha and cypher, then, good for him, he may be the strongest quake ever, or the higher earning, until someone stronger will come out.

Are you taking into consideration that the quality of training contributes a lot to the success of modern players? It's easy to learn the game right now. You can watch pros play, there are tutorials and there are servers active every hour of the day. They have the luxury of low latency, good hardware and QuakeLive is arguably easier to play. Thresh is a grandfather of the game and is statistically the most dominant player so far. If you think it's because the people he played were terrible then I guess he's in luck because the title belongs to him.

So Thresh is better than Rapha or Cypher?

He's saying that he was more dominant in his time.

Good enough for me but not enough to rank him above the likes of toxjq, rapha, fatal1ty, zero4, cooller, cypher, czm.

yes, i've taken in consideration this fact, contrarily to you that takes in consideration only some statistics in his favour;
this factor is almost irrelevant, because are you taking in consideration that with all the practice of the world, and with the better hardware possible, you cannot overcome your own limit?
What Fatal1ty said? Practice, practice, practice, practice, he said it non-stop, but still not even playing 8-10 hours at day he was able to compete to the raising level of quake3, and had to move on.
Again, go watch thresh's matches, and then compare them to more recent qw matches, and you'll understand by yourself that with all the practice of this world he couldn't compete with actual qw players, go figure with q3/ql monsters like rapha and cypher.

I don't believe in a limit. You start with a base skill and take it as far as you're willing to go. Sometimes luck is involved in winning and it isn't something you can calculate or foresee. However, no amount of luck would result in the career Thresh had. I think you are too stubborn to give Thresh the credit he deserves. I don't understand why. Cypher and Rapha are great, but they are new generation players. You have to remember that it takes time to establish the foundation of theories and strategies. They owe a bit of their success to the older generation of players. If we ever see another player as dominant as Thresh you will have something to go on. Like I said before, Thresh never officially competed in Quake 3. Maybe he would have flopped or maybe he would have been great. Nobody can say. He may have been kicking ass using an alias but never competed in tournaments. We simply don't know.

this is madness, it really seems that you are just trolling at this point! Then why do you think, some of the "second tier", contenders simply cannot be at Cypher/Rapha/etc. levels, no matter how much they practice? Because they are not at their level of overall skills...
And the fact Thresh never competed in q3, in spite of being still young and fresh at those times, is just another factor that shows to you that he well knew what would have happened to his "resume" if he would have faced some serious players

i think thresh dodged lakerman and kane in quake 1 and rix in quake 2

They could very well be at their level given time. Do you believe cypher and rapha's success is genetic? If you do not then I don't understand what you're trying to say. Some players have bad habits and it hinders them. A few adjustment and they'll be on the right path. Once again, you're unfairly judging him. Thresh already made some serious cash by the time Quake 3 came out. Concerning finance, he didn't necessarily have an incentive to compete professionally. Not the mention Quake 3 has quite a few differences from earlier titles.

Yes, i do believe cypher and rapha's success is genetic, of course! How can you don't believe it considering there are dozens of players that plays way more than them, and do all they can to be stronger, and yet they simply cannot reach some levels?
Here's a hint, it so is in every kind of competition, the players that wins in every sport are genetically more gifted than the normal peoples.... and there's another point: in every kind of sport, at his very beginning the competition level is rather weak (not stupid, nor embarassing, nor less respectable, etc;) just weaker, and the more time passes, the better and stronger players comes out; it so is in basically every kind of sport, swimming, running, soccer, shooting, tennis, boxe, etc.

Cypher - http://www.quakehistory.com/en/players/0,7
Rapha - http://www.quakehistory.com/en/players/0,5

A lot of rapha's tournaments aren't on there :-(

heres the complete list
http://www.esportsearnings.com/players/1157/rapha

turns out cypher has won more $ in his career, counting the fact he did also play q4 and q3
http://www.esportsearnings.com/players/1156/cypher

That one is missing tournaments as well.

They included cypher's online tournies, but did not include rapha's.

do you know which ones are missing? and how much the prize $ was for each?

No but combining the info on the quakehistory page with the esportsearnings page would be a start!

Also might be worth cross referencing with the SK website list:

http://www.sk-gaming.com/player/3848-rapha

cypher is the mike tyson of quake

he does things that no one else could even think of

when confident (not emo) he is unstoppable

best ever

Sentenced rapist strangely fits for quaker's idol :]

mostly considering Tyson's inconsistent resume; he was spectular, yes, to the point it's difficult to find a quake player spectacular and limited like he was

idd

me

rapha.

tho cypher is more entertaining to watch for most peeps

I thought it's pretty obvious that Cypher > Rapha, though i don't like him personally at all.

it isn't obvious at all, the contrary is, if ever; Rapha simply started later, and have the possibility to partecipate to less events; and still he managed to win more than Cypher, in the time period they shared;
But yeah, there are still peoples that thinks it's impossible Rapha beats Cypher in ztn on lan ( if you don't know... he did, consistently.)

I'm not a huge quake follower so correct me if i'm mistaken... But I followed last Quakecon's and Dreamhacks and looks that cypher consistently've beaten Rapha..

as you said by yourself, you haven't followed much, then: first of all, to say "i've followed the quakecon 2012" is a little like an oxymoron :-), but, talking about the matches, qcon 2012 showed how an awake Dahang can dominate an half-dead Rapha... those matches are ridicolous, in every zorac of fachit final you can see higher levels of playing... like Dahang walking straight a corridor looking to the shoulder of a still-standing, clueless Rapha waiting who knows what around a corner, and hitting him directly with a rocket.. this scenario repeated various times during the matches.. seriously, those matches are awful, not even in random practice between the two the level was so low, maybe there should be a rule that forbid any match to take place after, let's say, 9 p.m..
Cypher matches against Dahang are even more hylarious, i've never seen Cypher hitting the +attack button accidentally, well, during qcon2012 against dahang he did it various times, when far from the enemy, hurting himself with the splash XD! Have you ever seen the almightly Cypher getting dominated by Dahang, on lan, on ZTN? Those were the levels of the two, during the final stages of qcon 2012, those matches means nothing in terms of real skills;

and during the last Drimakhh, both the two were playing intensively shootmania, to be prepared for the 100,000$ tournament (!), and right before the event all the peoples were whining about how simplemania were ruining the best players, but then, Evil won, so Cypha the snypha and Rapha the gangster were at their very top level, and Evil the Ultimate Quaker Ever... No, the two were at poor levels, but i would say mostly for their aim side, expecially Rapha, so many random rails hitting nothing... of course, this is just their fault, undeniable, but this is not really indicative of their top skills.

you're just like rapha...


any lame excuse will work in your opinion...


rapha lost to dahang, because he was worst player that day... cypher played his usuall ztn out of control game against dahang... evil won DH cause hes great player

you are just like peoples describes you... an annoying raging kiddo distorcing the reality

so you are saying that it is normal, for your almighty Cypher, to shoot on his own foots and to loose on ZTN against Dahang?
Maybe you should watch the matches, and get a clue of what you are lying about?

maybe you should get off rapha dick?

cypher aint almighty, hes making mistakes as any player in the world... they are not machines...

and who said they are machines? The only ones acting like a deluded fanboy, here, is you... maybe you should get off cypher/whoever dick?

so you are saying that it is normal, for your almighty Cypher, to shoot on his own foots and to loose on ZTN against Dahang?

you obviously find them perfect... stupid assraped fanboi

i found what perfect? I was just explaining how both Cypher and Rapha were off at the last failcon , and you came out saying something on the line that Cypher was on his form, and that it is normal for him to struggle against Dahang on ztn and to make crazy mistakes on aerowalk....

Stupid assraped Dahang fanboi

you obviously has no idea who dahang is, and what he achieved in the past...

for most of users on this site, top ql players are cypher and rapha... just because they won the most number of tourneys... while theres like 6 more players who are able to do it, they just dont pracc enough

it's you that show to not have idea of what you are talking about, since you don't even know what happened to the last failcon; and about the pracc thing, it's false, plain and simple.

yeah, its fale plain and simple, thats why your e-hero rapha lost to dahang

you only show your retardness by saying that it is normal that your hero lost to Dahang... on ztn. ..On lan.

you only show your retardness by saying that it is normal that your hero lost to Dahang... On lan.

i don't have an hero, not between video game players , but mostly i never said it's normal for Cypher to loose to Dahang on ztn on lan... i said the opposite, in fact.

tox is

Funny games :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_d...90#t=2179s

why is he an ox and a moron for watching qc2012?

google oxymoron before posting.

i didn't say he is a moron for watching qc2012

yes but why an ox too?

actually ox alone means nothing, try again.

Rapha has won the most important tournament twice. So titlewise there is no arguement.

he didnt win UGC :SSSSSSSSS

evil>rapha>cypher

skill wise in quakelive
evil is the current grandmaster



best resume however

rapha>cypher>>>>>evil

I have seen several demos of evil (luc1fer) in his time in vq3! He was always a great duelist, playing as equals with good pro-players! But, for reasons unknown, he don't have participated in major tournaments and became inactive. But he has talent, knows the game well (aggressive, damn good LG, cold emo).
If he were active couple of years ago, rapha, cypher and cooller would not win many tournaments ...

i think we are overrating evil.

he won ONE lan against a semi-inactive cypher and rapha (who were playing both shootmania full time). an inactive strenx (also playing shootmania) beat him 2 out of 3 maps, although they were friendly matches. but evil may have gotten nervous as he was playing his idol

See demos of evil in q3 days (asus 2003, 2004...). evil was very good against Cypher ,Jibo, Cooller. This is cuz I think that evil could have wins asome tournaments if he was active in 2007, 2008, huh?

see this cool demos:
http://esreality.com/post/1515652/jibo-vs-evil/
http://esreality.com/post/1293022/evil-vs-cooller/

I just think evil is a very good pro-player! :)

HeatoN

lol

Fixed:
Who's worst, Cypher or Rapha?
Now let the flaming begin.

They're both midgets compared to the great Fatal1ty.

He's more like Babal1ty now.
But that doesn't mean I'm not respecting him.

You disrespect Fatal1ty you die

Learn to read.

idk, its kind of delusional at this point to put cypher ahead of rapha. how many times has rapha beat cypher in a series? 6+?

cypher's style is prettier to look at and I root for him every time, but when people actually played quake a lot no one could really touch rapha. there hasnt been incentive to play for awhile and the results these days are kind of irrelevent

Last I recall Cypher and Rapha are very close in how many times they've beaten eachother in a series, with Cypher just edging out on top.

If you're talking skill as in how they fair against eachother, you can't really say which one is definitively better at beating the other.

it's a silly metric for gauging skill anyway.

I dont have the numbers so I can't say youre wrong

I recall staying up for tournies and always being disappointed at cypher falling to rapha consistently over the years so I'll say I'm skeptical. in general cypher wasn't winning much of anything from after qcon08 to around 2010 right?

in QLranks DB, duel results

Rapha wins (vs Cypher) = 11
Cypher wins (vs Rapha) = 5

thanks for this!

edit: never mind lol

Just thought y'all be interested in this.

HEAD TO HEAD SCORES!



Matches:(BO1s,BO3s,BO5s)
BO3s:6-5 Cypher
BO5s:4-3 Rapha

Individual Maps:(ZTN, Dm6, hub, etc......)
29-26 Cypher

Events won:(when both clashed)
8-7 Rapha

LAN RESULTS


If there are any corrections or if I'm missing something, lemme know. peace

have a plus for your effort

edit: so cypher has actually beat rapha more, but the matches that rapha won were the more important ones

wow, thats as close to an overall TIE as you can get

if you're referring to the iems and the eswcs, yes i think so before iem dropped QL

anyways, they're both great players and they deserve to be inducted in the Quake HOF if such thing exists

edit:
it's still hard to pick who wins, it maybe a tie or not? so i guess i'm staying neutral on this one

golden potat award

and now cypha won DHW

DING!

since 2011 :x

Raphas mind = win

I would say they are both as good as each other but this thread reminded me of the game between, cypher and cooler at quakecon 2010- it was and still is the most amazing showcase of quake by two of it's greatest players

edit*found vod:> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhLFmpDxCNk

poor cooller. guy is a legend, but always came up short in the international tournaments

lets see if cypher will still be at the top in 5 years

i dont see professional quake tournaments lasting another 2-3 years.

they said that on 1999

and 2002

and so on. Maybe it won't be QL but Reborn, so it's the same genre and gametype.

i know what you mean, but this is technically the same game from 1999, and 2002. i doubt they would redo this for a second time

unless you are referring to a quake 5

nobody said that in 1999
esports were on the upswing then

http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/article/W...978469.php

In 2002, when quakecon and eswc(small $) were the only tourneys left, you did hear it a lot.

edit: just noticed it's an old post :/

1999 sounded better than 2002.

But yeah, point is quake has 'died' every year for the last 10.

i get you now

.

The thing is, how this will affect you? Other than that, for now rapha is the winner, because Cypher is not playing Quake full time right now. So he will be just raped.

is it supposed to affect me? this is a forum and decided to ask a question

I know, and also I wanted to answer ^^
love love

CYPHER CYPHER CYPHER

C O O L L E R
O
O
L
L
E
R

cooller in prime > *

oh and ofc FATAL1TY .D

As I know, Rapha won more lans and placed top3 more often when cypher in QL, so... Rapha > Cypher.

J A E D O N G
A
E
D
O
N
G

atm Evil.
If cypher is at his very best, he would take a map from chuck norris so...cypher.

Rapha better than everyone and nobody cares about second best.
Deal with it.

More money won, more titles. The end. And the guy isn't a douche bag either. Amazing really!

yea i made this thread exactly 6 mos ago (thx for the bump btw :P)

to me, its clear skill-wise rapha is the best atm.

as a bonus he also handles himself well, is willing to do interviews, very open and constructive with his opinions of other players, and even a great guest commentator/caster- he's the perfect ambassador of the game

Perfectly even and even their playstyles got more similar during their QL reign. Both so dominant at times while still being human having bad streaks.

evil is the best still

after cooller, ofc

What was I thinking (((((((((((

It's okay. You can chop off one of your fingers to reflect your regret.

COOLLER BEST PLAYER EVER

then why does he choke to cypher and rapha everytime?

LMAO cmon adobo at least give those cooller fanboys some breathing room in this thread :P

couldnt resist

nothing to do on this thread but plus #2 and leave.

Cooller

Stupid question. The skill level is so high it doesn't even matter. Both have earned the right to be called Gods in Quake.

I think they are about equal but the one advantage cypher would have is he adapts better to situations that aren't expected or he forces unexpected situations better. I think on new maps cypher/rapha do not know cypher would win more often because of this. On old maps both know they are pretty much as close as it can be.

Hi

;]

Dedication.

updated

and thanks for the bump, Teen Queen

I still feel like IEM Dubai, IEM Seasons 4 and 5 and eswc 2010 have been the most important of the game's competitive history, because of the preparation of the players and the coverage, but perhaps that's just a feeling...

C O O L L E R

... really isn't anywhere to be found in the list. :|

he would be in it, if the list wasnt so random (iem eu 2010 being in, but iem eu 2011 not)

Cypher @indacypher 12h
since 2008 me and @SKrapha won equaliy same amount of tourneys, magic number 11

Cypher @indacypher 12h
btw, i wanted to count coollers victory and its about 7 international winnings since 2002

https://twitter.com/indacypher/status/414372868307173376

Attached Image: 98989-Untitled.jpg (38KB)

evil
rapha
cypher

1. daddy with aimbot+wh of course
2. all the rest

1.5 years later I finally got the answer to my OP

Dr. Dre.

Damn.

Look at the decline in amount of tourneys per year -_-

And we don't get a dreamhack this year? :l

just updated the stats looks like cypher is edging out this one : )

WMO Cypher and it is not even close.

I love Rapha, he's a great champion and probably the smartest quakelive player ever, but Cypher overall is the best.

trolling aside, i agree. Cypher's is the complete package.

a Dr. Dre beats-free Rapha is right up there with him.

Why would he use such terrible headphones?

maybe sponsor? or just comfortable?

They're not horrible. They're a good set of headphones for $40-$50.

The only problem is that they cost about 6x more than that.

Are they still Dr. Dre or Apple?

cypher from games vs evil, strenx, and yestarday dahang, is best player ever

Both are nerds :P

shameless bump

im redy to record some history YO!

Hell yeah

Cooller

R
E
L
L
O
O
RELLOOCOOLLER
O
L
L
E
R

so umm, who's the real bonjwa? : P

Noctis + Cypher + {sometimes} k1llsen <3 <3 <3

cypher vs rapha debaters please proceed to this thread

thank you :D