id*

Yes, because id has millions of dollars to throw at a 14-year-old game. That's not risky investment either.

oh...but they want to sell it as a halfprice game....u don't make sense. id games lost their mind...i mean ..everybody move on.

I used to think, that we need Quake V. Now I believe, we need QL2, but with everything foxed from the start, with leaderboards, GTV and all that stuff, good business model and - marketing. It has to be new game, because you can't promote 4+ years old one.

i'm one step ahead of you, buddy ;p



edit:
tbh, I don't think were going to get another browser based game.
it's too much hassle and work for the few employees left, id software would be better off going the traditional software route.

not gunna happen

[18:26] <syncerror> I wouldn't go as far as to say Q5
[18:26] <syncerror> but something along those lines.

quake 4.1/redux :)

syncerror:

you should get andysak/gellehsak to beta test your new game.
he's easily the most talented quaker in NA.
you're not going to find anyone in NA with more knowledge about fps mechanics than him.

ask vo0, rapha and dahank too. More different opinions, more ideas, more solutions, etc ect = better end product.

if If that ever happens, I hope they change the q4 models entirely. Those are the only ones in the whole series that look and feel like they belong in another game.

Q4 models are so bad they could be in shootmania

You can always force Keel in Q4.

I'm guessing you're using Keel in QL anyway.

They were too tall and thin in q4 (too human), compared to how all previous quake models were.. That includes keel and the rest.

Keel in Q4 was massive. QW models are tiny as well, as are Q2.

No idea if it is the models proportion, but they look so different to q3 and the rest and also applies when shooting them.

That's not keel, that's your standard Marine/Tactical. When I said Keel, I meant Keel as he appeared in Q3. I'll provide screenshots in a little bit. I should mention that Keel was introduced to Q4 as part of Q4Max, IIRC.

Besides that, I still maintain the opinion that enemy models in QW, Q2, WSW and Xon are all of similar dimensions to the standard Q4 models. I think you just got too used to how comfortably large the keels and tanks are in Q3/QL.

I see. I think I've never seen q4's keel, but the marine was the model used in all streams I can remember of and is what I used.

The q2 male model was massive too and wsw's pork is as big as that one. I can't speak about xonotic and I shouldn't about QW (played it many years from now).

Is this the droid you was looking for?
http://dimwalker.com/img/mdl_q4/keel_02b.jpg
http://dimwalker.com/img/mdl_q4/keel_01b.jpg
afaik it was never officially used in any mods

yes. that be the one! <3

Came with my install of Q4 Max I believe. That, or the other 'competitive' mod, the name of which escapes me right now (not Militia xD).

the camera view height is different in q4 than q3... it's a few units taller. Not sure on exact numbers but i think q4 was around 72 (could be higher)units and q3/ql is around 63 units.

walk speed in both were the same 320 ups but because of the height difference q4 felt a lot slower... hence the patches to speed up the game.

My personal grasp about this part of q4 is how the models look like, not the speed of the game. View height could play a part on mine, so thanks for adding that info.

From what I remember what I disliked the most about that game was 60fps, which was fixed in the last patch (when nobody played q4 anymore).

yea.. the models sucked. really stale.
I played up till the end lol. there were still lots of people playing after the last patch where i was (us east coast)
I played with streetrunner a lot in duel and there were lots of ffa and ctf servers at that point.

People just didn't like the game over all. it lasted roughly 2 years. it just wasn't fun. I always thought the maps were garbage

hopefully its moved to the tech 5 engine. A simplified version i guess so people could actually create community made content.

If this is true, then the poll for player models on the ql forum makes a bit of sense.

Wtf is wrong? They screwed everything they did after Doom3. Shitty decisions, shitty marketing, shitty result.

*including and after*

FTFY

magadog you are so right!! id ported Q3 into a web browser and its one of the first FPS games that run like that. They also offer servers and stats website all with occasional updates with new content and fixes, but you finally understood that one thing that id is doing wrong. How come youre not some kind of genius working on astrophysics at Harvard?The answer was so simple for the longest time - why cant id just, besides creating the game, managing the website hosting servers and events just throw a few millions at players faces to force them to play?? how stupid can id be, theyre game is SO good, you need to constantly throw money at players else they dont show up on lans. cooller broke his hand and has nothing to do with this.

id offers a platform for pro gamers to compete in, sorry to burst your bubble but they cannot live of ESR plusses, they need some sort of money to keep things running. if you think fast paced FPS games are now a way to earn a living youre living in dreamland. it has nothing to do with quake or id. you want money, get a job. If youre so fucking smart how about you do something for the community, for example donate 50.000 dollars to dreamhack winner. oh you dont have money? sorry to hear that, im sure id will fix things by throwin it away

Quake needs a reboot with GODLIKE singleplayer (based on the original which has potential, not your generic bullshit from Q2/Q4) to reestablish itself as a brand first

also the MP formula needs drastic changes making it more fun (no timing in your head bullshit). sad thing is people would rather buy Valve's hats in TF2 than get raped in an old school deathmatch game..

(no timing in your head bullshit)

?

I do not care for your mathematics

timing items needs an overhaul, from the perspective of your average gamer that is pretty annoying to do just so you can stand a chance or play at full potential

i don't time and i'm 2k elo

cupid_stunts

Then how do you show up at the right place at the right (approximately) moments to pick items or deal damage when they are picked? Timing doesn't have to be precise counting in the head. It's general item awareness. "Oh yeah that item should be spawning soon I better take position there" is still timing IMO. And that's just as difficult to apprehend, maybe even harder, for a new player.

i don't think about which items are spawning, i just know whats coming up when (roughly, give or take a few seconds), so i be there or wherever

while im not a fan of timing to the second, removing "timing" by feeling is basicly the core of quake in every mode that involves items

so it's the core of quake period

And why dont you progress =)?

i have progressed, i just don't have a lot of time these days, hence i am unable to stay in form

>(no timing in your head bullshit)
Yeah, let's remove one of the fundamental pillars of why Quake duel is objectively the ultimate 1v1 esports game.
No thanks, I would rather have a reduced comunity with hardcore gamers that put effort into it to play at the highest level rather than start dumbing down the game to get more players.
Quake is one of the few games worth calling "e-sport" because it's HARDCORE as fuck and it takes years to master. NOTHING needs to be changed from the gameplay, just better graphics, ragdolls so the models don't lie in the floor in stupid ways after being killed, adding blood back (newbs love blood everywhere in FFA, newbs love easy killing which skillmatched FFA delivers and newbs love high end graphics).
I made the transition from being a total noob playing FFA with full blown GFX to duel and one of the aspects that fascinated me is timming.
If people is too dumb to appreciate the fine dynamics of this beautiful game then fuck them and hope they die in a fire.

one of the aspects that fascinated me is timming

I don't think timing has to be moved altogether, instead there needs to a be SOLID single player game, where players gradually acquire these skills. In the beginning of the game, it should be pretty basic, limited strafe, items timed for you, etc, etc, and as the game progresses you unload more responsibility to the player. I'm thinking of something like Borderlands 2, where you can upgrade your weapons, stats, play CO-OP against bosses with your friends etc....

So you can imagine, where you start with just a shotgun, full armor, limited movement, and your objective is track down some rogue bandit -- or anti-hero/bad guy, and kill him. As you move forward, you get to unlock skills, and your objectives become more difficult... You do this, and if properly implemented you will have COMPETENT players that have good movement, aim, and timing skills, ready for MP madness.

Also, would be nice to see some gigantic bosses (like Shadow of the Colossus) where they have... 5K HP, 5K Armor, 20 BFGS just spamming like a mother fucker, and you and your friends have to take him down.

Overall, it is difficult to create a game that is fun, and interesting in the SP, but sports-like in the MP. Ideally, you want to center the SP game around the MP (so the MP guns are used often in the SP, but you can't make everything else useless.)

It's not easy, because it has not been successfully done before.

I think the link between SP and MP has to be direct. For example in QL there isn't one in the Crash practice (unavailable map) and in the rocket jumping thing, except the last jump of the jumping only map.

I would usually agree, however, the learning curve of Q3 makes it unappealing to a wider fan-base, especially as you are expected to have some skills (timing, movement, etc...) before you can be proficient any way.

What compounds this issue is that people want to play with their friends, and the combination of these two things force developers into clever schemes of teaching new players -- without putting them "off" the required skills.

A gradual increase in skills available allow new players to concentrate on one thing at-a-time, without being overwhelmed by all the intricacies of the game. Some of the SP objectives need to be forced before a player can even play online -- against more experienced foe (akin to DOTA2).

I think that intelligent design can be used more effectively, in fact, I think it has too be as the game is far different from other FPS games, and a solid SP/CO-OP mode can really help attract new players.

SP? No. I think the best would be to allow players to really learn as they play. Well, they can already learn but it's not really easy. So we need to offer them modified gametypes that will help them do so. Here is an old suggestion of mine :

Some things I would like to have as spawning options, callvote options or even in low tier duel servers :

Spectator item timers :
Exactly the same timers spectators see, but for players. Yes, it should react to pickups not seen by the players. It can give away the enemy's position but I don't believe those this system is aimed at will really catch it. This system is aimed at growing in the worst duel players the rhythm of item spawning. It also give them goals they would not have otherwise.

Item timers with pickup :
The same as the previous point except that timers should only activate when the pickup was witnessed. For more advanced players that understood the importance of item spawning and must learn how to gain the information the normal way. A "?" could be shown when there is no countdown so the item isn't mistakenly displayed as "up" when its status is "unknown".

Item pickup timestamps :
The same as the previous point except that countdowns should be replaced with the pickup timestamps, letting the players make the math themselves. To clarify : Instead of a countdown, a timestamp is displayed. At the same place and persistent (until another pickup is witnessed for this item).

Interruption mode :
Alternate between 10 seconds of playing and 10 seconds of pause. Yes, during the whole 10 minutes. Err... 20 minutes now. It gives training wheels to the players that must time by themselves by allowing them to write the numbers down. But the most important is that it gives some time to THINK and take some DECISIONS with less pressure. Where is the enemy now? Where should I position myself? etc.

I don't see why there couldn't be a mix of both of our ideas. A good single player game allows people to have fun at their own pace, without getting raped, or being called a noob. Maybe SP isn't the right way, and CO-OP is better, but again, an objective-based campaign can do a lot to draw players in.

Your ideas are solid, although I'm not sure about interruption mode. I think there is something about having a good flow in a game.

Just to sum it up.

People play a game just to unlock something better, cooler , rare or so.

We play quake just to aquire more winnings and to get better.

The concept is simple for us.. just the other people can't see the beautiful reward and happiness you get when you improve yourself and become stronger.

Just put some minor rewards (better objectives, skins, titles).. I don't know, just something that motivates to play more and to get better and to unlock those things...

I don't know, I just think a well-built CO-OP game with Q3/CPM physics would a lot of fun.

*vq3

singleplayer? right, because the market for singleplayer games is HOT right now. erm...

it helps for brand recognition and getting people into appreciating the Quake lore and multiplayer legacy

ask any 15-year old right now about any Quake game.. they'd have no clue even about how it looks

How about for QL 2.0 there can be a "Historic Campaign" where you are an amatuer dueller trying to make a living out of quake and you have to enter all the famous tournaments in history and try a beat famous players from fatal1ty to Rapha and program the AI to try and match their behaviours. You can even have a high score leaderboard for most money made in campaign. Every time a major lan event happens you add a new chapter into the campaign mode for newer players to practise with.

it has to be something more engaging than that, most people don't care about esports and tournaments

Like in the "Tony Hawk’s Skateboarding"-series :)?

i love this idea so much

lol this would be awesome

Believe it or not, there is a sizable portion of CoD players interested in it only for the single player. Yes, they're casuals, and we can slam them all we want on this site, but they're interested in a game for the story.

Quake is a legendary series, a single player could attract many sales. Those sales may or may not convert to playing online later, but at least they'd be there, and hopefully, helping to re-establish Quake as a brand.

moba games and starcraft disagree with your timing point. SC and fighting games disagree with being not hardcore. It's about being appealing to play as a new player, not about being truly dumbed down. Not that it wouldn't help, but fuck that route, nobody here wants it.

Alright, I do understand that id doesn't have the money to invest. Or better to say that there is money but not worth risking.

Well.. Then.. How lvluptv .. Faceit.. 125fps.. Can do this? They started all just from being normal players and they're now an incredible source for the community.

We don't need milions, just a bit more of marketing, put some easier to access multiplayer. Yes it seems easy to me and you, but trust me I saw a ton of people not understanding how to join a match or just joining thw wrong one (wrong tier or wrong location), just this makes new players to get frustated after 2-3 matches. And that's where most of the new players quit the game.

There is people joining, they just leave to fast.

My solutions should be to just put a limitation so for example you can join tier4 servers just after you proved you can stand them. You shouldn't be able to join t4 servers at your first match, and receive a ton of insults.

Just put a Play Now button , add a little formula to calculate the nearest match, and the same tier lvl. Just make quake easier to access to new people.

Because that's it, the actual players are just those who gone past the initial test, the insults etc... New players should play just vs new players.

Quake has potential, I don't blame id, just because it has potential it doesn't mean it's "throw all my money", right marketing is very delicate.

But not doing anything isn't a solution.

Well.. Then.. How lvluptv .. Faceit.. 125fps.. Can do this? They started all just from being normal players and they're now an incredible source for the community.

The main difference is that all of these are ok with losing money. Even faceit, which is pretty much building and testing its system with QL to later expand to other games while already well developed.

they have the best quake coverage i've seen in 8 years (faceit)

It's not even hard to make the game successful:


- Add a matchmaking lobby akin to League of Legends, Dota2, Counterstrike: Global Offensive etc.
Example:




- Remove the fucking adverts whilst joining a server.

I showed a mate this game and he would spend ages trying to find a server that didn't have shitty mods that just complicated the beginner experience (air physics, vampyric bullshit etc), then by the time he got in, there were no places available. Frustrated, exited out, to have the same shit happen. How the hell is delaying people from trying out your game going to get them to pay money to get rid of that shit?!


- Sort the server browser out. Seriously, even with firefox addons, the server browser is just painful to use.


Plenty more I can't even be bothered to think about right now

You can't do shit when you have small playerbase.

Yes you can, but it has to be limited. That's what lolers does in not immensely popular regions, removing some queues/matchmaking entirely such as 3v3 and dominion, which I think are still available in custom matches (that no one cares about).

I think match making would work with ca and ca only, anywhere in the world, better if it merges servers like bo2 does. The best implementation would be that and having RA3, because that made 32 players servers possible and without maps being crowded.

But why do you think there is a small playerbase? ;)

The queue times may be larger at first, but it would be easier in the long run for making games. Especially for team-modes it would be longer (maybe not so much for clan arena).

There's a clusterfuck of empty servers at the moment for modes that are never played like freeze-tag, 1fctf and god knows what else. I'm not saying add a queue for them, but the main modes (I consider: duel, ca, ctf, tdm, ffa) are fairly easy to find maybe 3 or 4 full servers at any one time. That's enough to start of a playerbase for queues.



Lets look at Clan Arena:

- Match-making according to skill levels (no need to constantly shuffle). Quality of games improves
- Less disconnects due to delay punishments etc. Quality of games improves

Game finishes, callvote rematch option put up. If accepted play again perhaps on another map, if not, go back to browser, click play again, put back into queue. Simplez

It's too small if you want to have good matchmaking. It's quake, 4 tiers are not enough 20 tiers would be not enough.
Rape is part of the game. There is no mode where you can't be raped.
Back in the days I played game called GunZ or something like that. 3rd person shooter with walljumping and shit. There was mode "Quest" where you played with 3 other people against mobs and bosses. In co-op there is no rape issue but again it's Quake not Runescape.

But that's my point: the player base is small because there isn't enough opportunity to play with equal matched players. There isn't enough opportunity to play with equal matched players because the player base is too small.

It's a vicious circle but it has to start somewhere. Promoting and giving facilities for newer players is the best place to start.

Like comment #3 said, it would be a good idea to just start again with a smoother, new package and promote it through other new releases (who the fuck wouldn't try it out? It's got one of the biggest names in FPS and it's free)

I would ; _ ;
I would...

one of the biggest names in FPS

That was true ten a decade ago. It isn't anymore. You ask random FPS players what they think of Quake and a significant portion of them won't even know what you're talking about.

you have small playerbase when you even can't do a shit to it

On the second point, the game is so different with a standard account than with premium or pro with qlprism and a bit of knowledge. It's such a nuisance trying to find servers with a standard account with everything on default.

With premium, qlprism, the 'all populated' filter and a decent friend list it takes at most one minute to start playing, and a pro account practically ensures a match. Without all that the game shows less than half the servers (hides full and premium), there's that silly mandatory advertisement with loading the map twice and there's no one to ask a match to. Awful.

I bought premium recently because I was getting annoyed with the ads. So I guess their tactic works in that regard, but for anyone who is trying the game out new, it's terrible and I doubt they'll pay for anything.

cs go has done away with a traditional match browser (although it can still be accessed) to good effect. choose gametype > competitive or casual > map > and then you are matched to a game. with a big playerbase this works very well. in quake lives case where at off peak times there are only a few ca games, maybe 1 ctf, an ffa and 2 duel games in your local area it seems improbable a matchmaking system would even help.

I agree there but part of the problem is that people don't want to sit alone on a server waiting [hoping] for people to show up. If you try and do other shit whilst you wait, people think you're afk and leave. That or they see it's only 1 player waiting so don't bother. With a queue you can do other shit whilst you wait and you don't just see it's only one loaner waiting for games so you have more incentive to wait as well.

It gets silly when you're on a server at off peak times and there's 2 spectators waiting for someone to rage quit. There's been times I've logged on to see that there are no spots free on any server so I just log off. I'm sure other people do it, so there's at least room for another server to fill up with a few people.

Yes, getting ride of the classic server browser paradigm to switch to match-making could work. Server location choices might get messy though. However, the server browser system needs to be kept for pro-spawned servers.

But if it's done, I expect the playerbase to go completely insane and say that will kill QL (which is supposed to be dead already anyway).

It's not like you couldn't set it to choose only <50 ping servers and then have a blacklist for servers you didn't like for whatever reason and a whitelist for preferable ones.

i agree completely.
I just remembered about a GD Studio segment, they tried to show quake and make semmler play quake. After a couple of minutes in the website semmler just was lost and swearing at the retarded way the site is made to join a match.
2GD just sorted it out as he knows quake. But Semmler would have quit after 2 minutes because the game is just presented the wrong way, as there's no explanations on the mods and servers you should join.

this. the site is difficult to navigate and buggy. one of the main problems that the game has at the moment.

Sometimes good things are not commercially successful, doesn't make them bad, don't see why quake or anything should change to account for those with bad taste.

Anyone with a clue about games knows how pure and unparalleled it is.

Don't see the point in getting frustrated over it.

awesome :D

The game might be good, but the user interface sure is shit.

love when clueless guys blame id

Is magadog megaman3's brother?

Nope, it's his dog.

It's 2013. You missed the crusade by four years. Play or don't because Quake Live is going nowhere except offline.

So called "esport" organizers need to start choosing the best game based on competition not viewer numbers. Sponsors had no problems putting big prize money into quake 3 events. The real problem is just shitty people running esports, and a big reason it will not be taken seriously until change happens. Guitar Hero or Quake Live should not be a tough decision. These "esport" people aren't willing to put work into events they just want to pick the quickest draw and have no care about competition. Sponsors know the viewers will come no matter what the game is as long as it is at every major event. Face It proved this by just having quake on every sunday.

l3l







wait for Reborn
K A P P A
A
P
P
A

Like it or not the most competitive games are the ones being chosen, unfortunately quake doesn't have even 10% of the competition that LoL or SC2 do while simultaneously having no viewer interest compared to those. Quake failed to keep itself in the spotlight when it had at least some measurable level of interest in the wider esport world.

You only have to look at the current LCS season in LoL, "unknown" teams breaking through and often dominating the previous top teams, while being watched by hundreds of thousands of people. Quake will not compete with that any time soon, it has been so damaged by the lack of tournaments that it will take years to recover, assuming it even can.

That could also be attributed to LoL having a lower skill ceiling so more people can reach that peak, which seemed to be what Shootmania was trying to do and was chastised for trying to open up a shooter to more competition.

I do agree Quake needs more Tournaments in team games, it has become too Duel centric.

Also correct me if I am wrong but isn't sc2 much the same as quake? Its the same guys all finishing high at events?

sc and quake take years to fully master so you don't see a lot of turnover but isn't that what competition is supposed to be about? The game that takes the most skill.

Or it's more fairly attributed to the fact that the game has far more players actively competing and trying to reach the top. Duel or team types makes no difference for Quake, there isn't a large enough base of competitive minded players to create a truely cutthroat competitive environment that is constantly changing. The top of Quake has been so static for years, nothing really changes.

I can't imagine how amazing it would be to witness a Quake scene where there are thousands of players aiming to reach the top and truely dedicating themselves to being the best. The quality of the games and the level of play that could be reached is something I would love to see. Sadly this is well beyond the reach of Quake, it would require regular, well paid events, which needs to be fuelled by the mass interest of a thriving player base and interested viewers. All this is confined to fantasy I'm afraid.

Event organizers need to look at the player base quake does have and look at the players who play for nothing more than just to see how good they can get, no promise of big money or sponsorship. Baksteen was pure dedication and he made it with the promise of nothing at the end of the road that is real dedication no LoL player would ever have. Its up to the Organizers to see who the real competitors are and who are just hooking onto a fad.

LoL has been legitimized by all the events its been put in not because its a special game or any thing, you put the spotlight on any game as much as LoL has had, and its going to have that same player base too.

That is why Quake is the truest esport, people keep on playing it with little to no incentive, other than respect. Would that many people be playing LoL with out the big money? I doubt it, it would die as fast as WoW arena once the sponsors left.

You're far too biased against LoL really, you just sound deluded and believe Quake is somehow special. Quake is my favourite competitive game, but, it isn't "special" and it has no divine right to be in the spotlight. I just hope it can get to the level of LoL for the purely selfish reason of wanting to watch higher level higher quality play. I know it won't ever happen, but I can still hope.

Nothing against LoL but it wouldn't have the platform it has with out games like SC,Quake and CS. LoL obviously belongs but the stage is not being shared at all LoL has been propped up so much its players/viewers probably think they created esports when in reality they have contributed to the degeneration of esports where viewership/money > * . Also I hate seeing events with LoL,HoN and Dota2 that is just overkill not even trying to represent each game type. Boxing promoters bring the most money but they don't bring the best competition and that is where esports is headed.

How long before we see competitive sims just because its the most played game in the world? I hope I didn't give any one ideas with this.

Quake doesn't need the whole stage it just needs a corner like dreamhack is willing to give it.

PS any chance you and dis are going to cover the prague event from home or possibly at the event?

People play and watch what they like. Sponsors and coverage is on popular games and sports because this is a business. People don't play nor watch quake or chess, no sponsors, tough luck.

Not saying quality-wise quake is chess because it isn't, but to me chess and chess players are more admirable than lets say bball. The "truest" sports (more like more complex) are sadly unpopular.

It's not just a corner: it's at least $10,000 in prizes, then the whole internal organization into hosting a game there, coverage, getting players and everything involved. If it was as easy as you say so then you would be hosting major lans.

Chess is more like LoL, Quake is more like Basketball, one takes actual skill not just knowledge of the game.

That's not the point...

Well it shouldn't be called esports if that is the case. Give anyone with a brain enough time on LoL and the proper support system and they will be competitive. Give the same person a life time on Quake and all the support you can throw at them and if they don't got it they don't got it. That is what separates sports from hobbies. Also what vor was talking about basically unknowns winning LoL events, it would be the equivalent of random people off the street beating the Chicago Bears its not happening in a real sport. I don't know or can't explain what it is but something in Cypher and Rapha and other top Quake players DNA puts them on a different level. It could be many things working together to make them who they are (hand eye coordination,reflexes,vision) who knows but they are assuredly different from the average gamer.

What separates sports from hobbies is dedication. Every activity can be competitive.

The LoL champions are the equivalents of evil in quake, and he isn't a random or new player by any means. Also, if quake had that prize pool the top16 at quakecon would have been completely different.

tbh you sound like a 1000elo LoL and quake player defending things he doesn't know about lol.

You have 23 days played on Quake Live what have you won mr expert? 23 days is a freaking lot for a "hobby" btw. You have almost as much time as Zero4 Played in 3 fewer years yet You've won nothing? You are living proof Quake is specialized you've put 23 days into Quake and can not crack 2k elo. Even 1 map wonders can crack 2k. Also you have no idea what me and vor were talking about he said unknown LoL teams won tournaments such as underdogs or surprises. Evil is not unknown or an underdog.

Again, that's not the point.

No unknown LoL team has won any major tournaments because they have to qualify for them first. Their leagues and tournaments work like real sports do, not like quake does in which anyone can sign up to div1 cups.

The current lolers champions around the world are known players and the S2 champion were known to be the best of their region, which was and still is the most competitive globally, and have years of playing experience. You know, just live evil.

I didn't say unknown teams won events, sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm saying that teams that weren't previously in the top tier are getting incredible results in the EU and NA scenes. Example from the NA scene.. Cloud9 a newly promoted team into the NA LCS, dominated the top NA teams by winning 25 games and losing 3. They'll now play the NA playoffs as the top seeded team.

I was using it as an example of a highly competitive scene where a team from the "lower" tier has studied the competition and taken their chance when facing the top tier teams. They're "unknown" in the sense that they weren't in the professional circuit until a few months back and viewers hadn't been exposed to them. Hardcore fans would have known of them prior to this, the vast majority who watch LoL wouldn't know them.

It's essential to the longevity of any sport/esport/game or whatever, that new talent cycles through, something I think Quake struggles with.

As far as quake being huge I agree it would be great but more so just too see id get some money off it and have a purpose to make the next quake. I don't think it is a necessity though Quake just needs the coverage, Quake is one of the few games where I see people say this is fun to watch but I'd never play it. Even my self I watch quake more than I play it. Its kind of like NFL you could never play in it but you still watch.

I keep hearing this game everywhere, I would like some info about it specially comming from a perspective of a dedicated Q3 player.
So what do I need to do if I want to learn and start progressing? And how does one even progress in a game where you need other people? If your team sucks, how are you supossed to shine and get signed by a relevant team and have a chance at going pro? I just graduated and I see im going to have a lot of free time until I find a job so I want to give this game a shoot in terms of becoming competitive. I've reached 2k ELO in QL so I guess I can become top at this with the right amount of time. Take into account i've only played FPS, so im not sure about the transition..

2014 soccer world cup, penalties.

chess intermission.

They also need to bring back the gore and the shock value. Q3 was in the same vein as the old mortal kombats, where the gameplay was good, but the fatalities added to the ambiance. QL is desperately missing this

Yes I agree with this mostly. QL is such a strong game that it's players are creating the tourneys and awarding prizes, sometimes at their own expense. It also attracts some of the best gamers in the world, even though they can't make hardly any money playing.

There is value there. Why doesn't id see that? Why does the community have to go through all this crap to try and breath life into the game? I disagree about it being up to the esport guys though. It's id's game so they should be organizing the events, etc if the esport community has no interest. The esport community probably has no interest because they are getting paid to promote certain games. id could either grease these guys palms or they could put the money in into their own tourneys.

Yes QL has issues. I'm not sure the subscription model is working for one. And I have no clue why they incorporated all the Team Arena weapons and BS into the game when that mod was such a flop. They need to make CTF like it was in Q3.

But since the duel game is so pure, and so enjoyable to watch, and so loved by skilled players, my original point was that they need to promote the game like a sporting event. And that starts off with at least getting your best players to your tourneys, and then paying them enough prize money where it will attract outside attention. Attention from top gamers who want to win big money, and attention from their fanbase. Attention just from video game enthusiasts who have never heard of quake, and then watch a crazy tournament and decide to give the game a chance. Attention from the gaming media. The biggest magazine in the US is besides AARP is Gameinformer with 8 Million circulation.

id? I don't know if they decide about quake anymore, maybe it's Bethesda or ZeniMax.

The "wrong" part is that they want big income from QL first to even think about putting some serious work to it. It's not the way, the company has to invest money first. They should make a idTech5 based QuakeLive, the problems with RAGE has been fixed so now it should just work.

QL is still a good game, but engine from 1999 is not attractive for new players.

is rage still locked at 60fps/60hz?

Please...

It would be a handicap for everyone, basically making it not a handicap.

yeah but screen tearing looks shit.

since when does 60hz = screen tearing?

my brief experience with the game included huge screen tearing issues with anything other than 60hz locked with vsync. 120hz is clearly superior and 60 fps whatever anyone says is not enough. i don't agree that limiting a game to create an even playing field is the right way to do things either.

skip the talk, hes one of these hardwere fanatics, seeing every single frame

so you don't notice the difference between 60fps and 125fps? or 60hz and 120hz? don't need to see every frame to notice a big improvement in smoothness in fast action games like quake. you must be one of those technophobes or just so docile you can't tell the difference.

yes i do notice it. both are smooth. 120 is just more smooth.

maybe if i didn't grow up using a crt this wouldn't matter but the difference between 60/120hz is substantial for me.

cut the bullcrap, we all grown up using crt

most of us grew up.

Interesting that you need to be a "hardware fanatic" to see every single frame. In lab tests, people are able to recognize shapes displayed for 1 millisecond and you can't see a full screen artifact flashing continuously? Must be hitsu.

link to lab tests

On a screen that refreshes at 120 Hz, a 60 Hz game will tear just as bad as a 120 Hz game, just in every other frame (you see full frame - two frames with a tearline - full frame - same tearline - etc.) You need few more FPS to make the tearline jump around to become less noticeable.

(That's why we play QL at 125 FPS and not 120.)

we play ql on 125 fps, because its one of bugged fps values, resulting in more speed :X must be lam

The Q3 bug you're referring to resulted in slightly higher jumps allowing some useful ones on the default maps (like dm13 mega). There wasn't really more horizontal speed.

Of course this was fixed in major Q3 mods and in QL. I doubt you ever had a chance of even playing a game that had the bug.

Why the default value is 125 and not 121 or 150 is of course a side effect of using a sleep function with millisecond resolution (originally; was fixed circa 2010 IIRC). I know you have no idea what I'm talking about.

i dont care, im not tech psycho. i just play

"I just play" is a good approach, maybe even the best (it's surely most fun to be amazed at stuff without over-analyzing it).

But it doesn't mean you're blind or anything - you still see stuff, but just don't know what causes it, or in cases like discussed above, don't even know it can be better.

No reason to attack people who have experienced better things and can't go back anymore, or call techies "psychos".

i didnt attack anyone, stated obvious fact.

The default value of 125fps? The reason behind that would be interesting, since other game engines do not limit the fps like that, allowing even crazy fps numbers like 1000 or more :)

There are practical reasons not to increase that any further (for one, each frame produces an update to be sent to the server, even when maxpackets are lower, they will get bigger; also the physics even if decoupled from rendering, still operate at some fps and you'd need to change those to keep everything fluid at higher fps values) and there's nothing to be gained from silly numbers like 1000 when most people sample input at 125-500 Hz.

Having said that, QW at 250 FPS looks brilliant and I wish QL allowed that.

Got it.

iirc, when I played on CRT, I had the best experience when the display output Hz and fps was a multiple of the input Hz, providing butter smooth gaming.

we play quake at 125 as a hold over of the framerate dependent physics in q3..

Quake is also seriously lacking in the streaming department, LoL has top level players that stream every day. Quake needs a bigger representation on twitch outside of just tourneys. Pro players who will interact with twitch viewers. id could also offer Keys to any QL streamers who reach certain viewer numbers. QLranks has no viewer interaction its like watching a robot stream. Twitch viewers don't go for games per se, but more for the streamers personality(they will watch the favorites play any game). If you are a fun happy pro player with time to stream do it or if you are a hot girl who loves quake do it. Strenx was doing very well, Fatal1ty also does his best to stream when he can.

just give up and enjoy it for what it is.

no offence to rapha, evil etc.. but I would rather have this imaginary id money not going to them and maybe towards streaming or things brand new players would like.

I'm pretty sure most of the prize money for tournaments come's from sponsors like intel, so maybe help grow the community instead. The most realistic scenario is a self perpetuated system:
more players > more prizes > repeat

It's a two way street. When you look at SC2 pros they are always streaming their matches and talking to fans. They even have to deal with map hackers and stream cheaters every once in awhile. Their attitude is "Hm, that was strange... *search for next match*". Quake pros stream once in a blue moon or never. Even icons like Fatal1ty are only streaming FFA or CA. It's better than nothing... but come on. If he is a shell of his former self so what, players have to let go of the fear. I don't understand why players are afraid. Whatever the reason is it has to go. You cannot solely depend on major events ~2 times a year to get people involved. Put streams on the site. Merge with QLRanks. Add a campaign to QL or something. Have the campaign teach timing creatively and have optional missions involving strafe jumping or something. If you're relying on noobs to just register and learn the game on their own then your expectations are too high. It's never going to grow like that, IMHO. They're just going to get mauled, treated like garbage and then uninstall. The people who survive harassment are not stronger for it, they're mentally ill for dealing with a community so hateful and annoying.

You need a second PC to stream while playing unless you have a high end, overclocked i7.

Or in comes a secondary player. He streams your POV and via Teamspeak/Skype the 'pro' player can talk. A little coordination is required but there's people out there who offered these things.

Proper gtv would help streaming too since it makes it easier to follow, no password/slot for streamer nonsense anymore. Put no...

gtv. word.

dont forget the zoom

Zoom is only necessary when the enemy model is Hunter, Slash or Mynx... :)

You know, I really understand your sentiment. I really do, but you cannot compare streaming SC2 to streaming QL. QL pros cannot stream like SC2 pros for 2 big reasons:

1. SC2 pros get a salary. They don't have to work for a living so they can practice all day and stream for a large chunk of that.
2. SC2 pros streaming have 1000+ viewers at all times with tens of thousands of followers. That's a lot of ad revenue, and that's a lot of possible donations and/or subscriptions.

I do completely agree with a proper training mode for QL. Hell, you really just need a new bot, "TimerBot!", who always gets mega and red to the millisecond and taunts you if its picked up an item and you weren't around. Your mission, beat timer bot, not in score, but in number of reds and megas picked up!

You could do a lot of stuff like that easily. Hell, it'd be a small change to have a bot that taunts you when it picks up a major item, and that would help training players remember to time items.

Ultimately though, there's a circular problem. For new players not to get stomped, there needs to be other players at their level. For there to be other players at their level, there needs to be new players.

Syncerror has given hints that the vision, and future of QL and id multiplayer has improved since a certain ponytailed individual left id, so there's hope!

I completely agree. I don't want to imply that it's easy because it's not. It's simply something I feel needs to happen. The community needs interaction and something to look forward to. FACEIT has helped a lot, but it's not personal. If at least one pro a week could stream duels it would be a start.

TimerBot! is a brilliant idea :)!

idtech 5 quake live

remarket
fire sync
hire port

LOL

and weird to fix warping l3wl
and fat for peanuts YUMMY!

Quake 3 players are pussies and that's why it's dead cos no one wants to watch QL

The majority of quakers has not arrived in the delusional era yet. we were big and epic once back in doom, then in qw and after that in q3 but only for a very short time span. Those times are over now over a decade. Wake up esr! We carry the oldschool heritage of skill>popular demand but we are alone out there (except our 1.6 brothers) and we are unimportant due to our numbers. But this doesn`t have to be a bad thing. Let your desparate grasp off of the golden quake 3 illusion and embrace our true situation.

There is no need anymore for threads such as these. we are skilled, dedicated and loving quake players and we are a fantastic community. We have withstood the winters together and strong. Cpmers qlers and osplers reach out and stand together in the spirit of unity.

we don`t need the golden age of q3 and the arrogant attitude born therein anymore we are excellent the way we are.

I love all of you, except jamerio he`s mean

ahaaha

barack?

EVERYONE NEEDS TO UNITE AND PLAY WARSOW
the ultimate quake...

[-]

Something like that.

spoken like a true ESRity

ESRtist (c) mouse*

Fine line between love and hate.

i never hate, life is not worth spending time on such bs

you should try it. it's fun

all pluses due to finishing comment about jamerio. i have share your lukewarm-at-best interest in his antics.

jamerio's a douche.

>we don`t need the golden age of q3 and the arrogant attitude born therein anymore we are excellent the way we are.

yes we were arrogant, flaming cs and ut. and now we are in this together, a monster water wave full of cod is over us.

Just enjoy the game for what it is at this point and be thankful that people are still playing such an old (but good) game. Like everyone else said, it is unlikely that there will be any massive improvements to QL.

I don't think this game has a chance to be a huge "esport", arena deathmatch is just not a popular genre anymore. I have talked to 14 year old cousins/nephews and they have never even heard of quake nor do they seem interested or impressed when I show it to them. Don't feel the need to justify a hobby, just enjoy cosa nostra ;)

I do agree with people that say to just accept the situation.

But yet I still believe there could be huge improvments.

Yea, there is my story. As you might think, I'm not and old q3 player, not a q2,q1 or doom player.

No.

I joined quake last year. I knew there were pros ready to rape me, I just wanted to try. And I'm not a guy who was bored of games so researched something more particular.

All what happened, was to see a video interview about stermy on an italian youtube channel.

That's all, and today I'm here posting on esr for supporting this game.

Like me there could be thousand out of here, we just don't know how to make them see this game. They are ready to come, they just need to discover it.

And if just a single video made me play this game and support it so much, then you need to understand that every single effort, dollar or time invested in this game will be worth it. Just need to understand the right way to invest it.

Make new Quake game that runs on mid end hardware.

Make free to play.

Add some cool new game modes.

Have proper stats and ladders and that.

Sell cosmetics.

$$$

Literally easiest thing in the fucking world I swear.

Not sure if serious.

The hardest thing to do is to make a game that is awesome. They have that. They also have a hardcore base following which is a great asset.

All they need to do is tweak QL in a couple ways and then promote it by holding tourneys with prizes that would attract people's attention, and get their best players to the tourneys.

What if id announced that 6 months from now there is a tourney where the grand prize is a Tesla Model S? Anything with Tesla's name in it makes news like crazy. Good publicity for Tesla good for QL. Elon Musk is a gamer too. I'm sure id could get a Model S for cost.

Or just a big cash prize or something. Draw attention to the game. Draw attention to the pros that play the game. Make them stars of the gaming world. Make QL a true esport.

The shootmania approach doesn't work. What matters the most is the playerbase, the casuals not the hardcore.

The game itself isn't appealing to 2013 gamers (looks awful, no mates play it), then come the massive interface issues and the incomprehensible business model.

Great car choice though.

Shootmania looks like it sucks though.

And what about LoL? Amazing graphics there? Doesn't look like it to me but it has a big audience.

Again, what I'm saying is make the pro QL players the stars. QL is brain vs brain, skill vs skill. It's as much about the people who are playing at the top level than it is about the game. That's what id doesn't get. The pros are a valuable resource. Characters like sort of arrogant Strenx, the tough russian machine Cooller, the serious scary Evil, the well spoken intelligent Rapha, the playmaking Cypher, the crazy rail of Kil1sen, etc. Let them battle for riches and entertain the gaming community.

Instead we have the best gamers in the world talking about how they can't afford to make the trip to the tourneys even though they love the game. And they play some crappy looking game that you can tell they hate instead. Its recockulous.

Looks "awful"?

lol, on full graphics, it's still beautiful. The textures, the contrast, the colors. Especially some DeFRaG maps.

quake 4.1 : 125 fps, built in q4max settings, idtech5 improvements ala bfg edition, air control, cpm teleport jumps, faster rockets(900 ups?), quad=4x dmg, cpm wallrunning (hugging a wall gives increased running speeds. ppl use it to sneak around a map faster and for trick jumping), and much faster weapon switches(instant or 100% faster than ql's switch. that would be 100ms, i believe). the faster the game, the faster that your weapon switch needs to be.


or


ql 2.0 : q4 built in the game, air control, quad=4x dmg, cpm teleport jumps, much improved graphics, better match making, cpm wallrunning (ppl use it to sneak around a map faster and for trick jumping) better chat/voice support, osp styled strafe jumping(you increase speed with each strafe), 15 second weapon respawn time for 1v1, faster rockets(900 ups?), faster weapon switches, and more difficult circle jumping(at least as hard as osp's).

run ql 2.0 as a beta until enough maps are made.
once there are enough maps for all the game modes, dump QL 1.0 for good.




the casuals will play instagib/capturestrike/ca/BOMB MODE/BASKETBALL MODE, etc
no need to casualize the mechanics or the tdm/1v1/ctf settings in the next quake game! ffs, ql was casualized to hell and it didn't get anywhere with the casuals.

improved graphics/speed will bring the casuals in

fun casual modes will keep them around

the increased difficulty will prevent players from only playing right before a tourney(sorry, stermy/vo0)
with players being more active maybe we'll get more streaming? :p


quake4 + cpm = the perfect marriage

pros for ql 2.0
id has total control

pros for q 4.1
the community/esea could help out and it would be available on steam

I prefer q4.1, because i like seeing the community involved in the development/server hosting, but i'd be happy with either game


last, but not least
PAY OFF A LEAGUE TO iNCLUDE THE NEXT QUAKE FOR A SEASON(mlg, esl, etc. preferably mlg.)

imagine all the mlg kids being shown some super fast q4.1 action right before they have to watch slow ass cod ghosts.
their jaws would be on the floor after the first match ;p
you'd be guaranteed to get lots of new blood from that type of exposure.

You think the air control would mesh well with the crouch sliding?

why not?
it's at least something worth trying out in beta mode.

air control does make it harder(or more rewarding ;p) to hit air rockets, but it also makes it possible to do some AMAZING tricks.
just look at any qw video

edit: i believe tf2 has air control and i've never heard any of the noobs complaining about it. quakers will quickly get used to it.

I wasn't saying it was a bad idea, was just curious about your opinion. I agree it could be worth trying out, was there any sort of mod for q4 that added air control?
EDIT: Isn't there a rule-set in CNQ3 that has crouch sliding?

a vertical rocket jump with air control into a crouch slide sounds awesome :)
i've never tried a q4 mod with air control, but i'd definitely like to beta test the next quake if that was added.

yes there is. didnt use it at all :-)

We could just switch to militia!

cpm + q4 projectile interaction with jpads and teles, crouchsliding + pk tele system(momentum preservation)

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

excessive+ light version :p

I prefer to think of it as cpm squared :)

excessive+ is shit.

q4 + some cpm elements
i'd be easier for id to make than the other way around ;p

crouchsliding in cpm [+], but I'm not into changing teles cos telejumping is really cool and projectile thru teles is a bad idea imo, teles are nice cos they 'hide' ur position instantly, i think cpm is already quite agressive, teles atm are more a defensive tool too and i wouldn't like to take that away from the game.

imagine all the mlg kids being shown some super fast q4.1 action right before they have to watch slow ass cod ghosts. their jaws would be on the floor after the first match ;p

I showed some CPM footage to halo'ers once. They just laughed and said there was no way a "point and click laser and lots of rockets take more skill than Halo CE." CPM is too fast for laymen to pickup on the complexities. For instance, you could show them the f33l outro and they wouldn't bat an eyelash, because console casuals simply have no concept of skill-based movement. So ye, don't get your hopes up.

Please tell me they have no concept of what a keyboard and mouse is.

Aiming with a controller takes more skill because a controller is less accurate (c) Those halo fanboys

I brought up dorftrottel too in that particular discussion. All they got from that is that you and hal are spawn camping nabs :P

why do you interact with dirty console peasants? :)

real life mates.

it happened same to me, I loaded ra3 map i told them to move around. After 15 minutes looking at the map i showed him the outro from feel and their brains melted

"All they got from that is that you and hal are spawn camping nabs"

Haloers. What cluless shitnoobs. Sorry.

This is really, REALLY sad.
I mean, I even taught a female friend if mine a little lesson about the history of Quake and eSports in general.
I told her about the movement and stuff, let her play a game against Crash and showed her "The Contenders 2" and toms' "Q3 soon" (mainly because I'm in it, yeah!).

She was well impressed by it.

Fucking console bellends.

lol

competitve cod/halo/tf2/cs players are who we need to go after. most who i've talked to that play competively are pretty open minded gamers. they're nothing like your idiot friends.

I can back that competitive open-mindedness statement. Personal MOBA player friends of mine are quite interested in the Quake side of things. They play FPS games infrequently, but appreciate the skill that goes into it.

lol
those kids were probably trolling you
kids aren't as dumb as you think
they do know when they see skill
had a halo kid tell me this was the most impressive thing he'd ever seen in a video game and that he respects the players in the video. no BS




id needs to run tutorials at mlg/esl
show these kids what the players are doing
they will respect it and give the game a shot.
(hopefully a souped up q4 game with cpm elements would be used over quakelive cause there would be a lot more to talk about, lol)

i know it's just from 2005, but music still wakes some kind of nostalgia in me.. dont care for the qw ctf gameplay.

Q4 is ugly as fuck and it just feels unfun to play. Forget it.

Curious on the comment about Q4 being ugly... How is it ugly?

Aesthetics? Textures? Shaders? Lighting? Consistency? Models (LG is uglier than sin, at least its an effort compared to Quake 3's two pins attached to a blue box)?

All of what you said combined.

I hate how the entire game has that plasticy look, just like Doom 3 did.

Imho you want to QL be more popular then it is now?
Look at SC2,it is old game in new wrap, it is optimized well-done and well advertising.

yes!
everyone will flock to another q3 remake.
the 3rd time will be the charm!

A q3 remake was in the ESL and never took off because the matches were BORING as hell to watch. another remake isn't going to work because the game isn't exciting enough to attract NEW BLOOD

i admit that newer matches(faceit/qcon12 onwards) are more entertaining because players have better aim and the speed is slightly faster, but the game already had it's chance and i doubt another q3 remake will do any better.

I rather see a remix of a faster quake(q4/qw) or have them come out with something completely different.





[i know you didn't specify another q3 remake, so don't take any offense if i assumed incorrectly]

im like the aristoteles socrates, i dont know much, but 1 thing. q4 is over. the downfall of q4 had its reasons. i still think its because the idtech4 in multiplayer.

look at old threads
ppl didn't want to give it a fair shot on esr, even when it got fixed, it had nothing to do with the gameplay.
of course, i wouldn't want to see an exact remake(see comment 99), it'd have to be an improved game.

most importantly, q4 is more appealing to non-players than q3. i'm not bsing you, play fat vs tox OT game and any q3/ql OT game to some cod player, and see which one they prefer. I can almost guarantee it'd be the q4 game.

mmm. give me time to think about it. but can we agree that many errors were made with q4?

a really strange error = activision released a german version with cuts in the singleplayer, so the german mp version was incompatible with international online servers. many germans bought the game and couldnt join popluated mp servers. ofc the fault from activision.

early game was a disaster. i agree with you
no doubt it could easily be fixed tho

i shorten it up.

esr quake 3 people wanted q4 to be a "quake 3 part 2" and that was wrong!

the casual player bought q4, sure, maybe he played a quake before / maybe he had an older brother who played a quake title. and the quake scene was like always: qw guys hate all except qw, q2 guys hate all except q2, same with q3 and q4.

early q4 = bad performance/bugs/no mapdownload/unresponsiveness/LG was now a boring weapon

8 years q3 maps and mods, gtv, traditions, the standard was so high in q3 and couldnt get reached with a new game.

most people didnt wait for the id patches and left. maybe it was a huge crowd that played q3 and did go inactive in 2004/2005. there were only sneak peak into it and never stayed anyway.

actually i felt sometimes q4 was just a generic game with the name quake - because q3 was perfect for me. even when most of the stuff was fixed, i didnt like it. in vertex modus (now 3-4 cvars) it looked uglier than q3 in vertex. id tech 4 felt not good in mp compared to id tech 3. i cant detail it exactly.

the mp flop thing (not the sales) repeats with et/quakewars and ut2k4/unreal 3.

And Brood War is still better.

dont u get that quake is from britney spears/millennium bug era? noone is interested in that 1999 anymore
i know i will be attacked that quake live is not q3 but it is.
ask your friends, what they think about quake
'yeah! omg! i played it on computer science, you still play that?'

its and old game, awesome 3d tetris 5.0 with rocketjumps and zoom
still tetris

'you are sweet like chocolate boy' with this 'id damaged my quake' delusion

a new quake would have to be built with attracting new players in mind. most old fogies are content with their nextboxes or have moved on from gaming.
they're likely not coming back, at least not to compete again.

how can id attract new blood into the scene? is it even possible?
i think it is, but were going to have to ditch quake3 to make it happen.

the 2 most popular first person shooters on the pc are team fortress 2 and cs go. both rehashes of games from a time when britney was sweet and innocent and 50 cent was a denomination of money. you could say that maybe arena shooters in general have had their day but no one can say that with any certainty. the advantages those 2 games listed have over quakelive are numerous. aisde from well funded active development which is perhaps the most important, we have an upgraded engine, presentation, great connectivity to matches, customization, rewarding the player and exposure all housed ingame.

quakelive looks good in high quality with picmip 0 but it doesn't shine anymore. the engine however is fantastic and surely carmack with his wizardry could add specular surfaces, bump mapping, upgrade the lighting engine to provide better shadows. new game models, gun models, special effects, etc etc. first impressions count for a lot and at the moment this game looks dated. could use a new engine but id tech 3 is the dogs wotsits for multiplayer.

presentation is a huge problem too. the whole quakelive website is a multitude of menus and boxes. it's handy for those who know their way around but would be so much better if it was 1) streamlined and 2) housed ingame. the game options are far too many. the way you select matches is half arsed, first you're eased in then bam of you go. choosing the model you want could be done better, maybe the first thing you do. how many games have a walking eye as a playable character. the quakelive match loading screen is still in a 4:3 ratio for godsake. so basically a new frontend for the game, streamlined and inviting with the options to fully setup hidden away in advanced tabs.

connectivity to matches is where i'd like to reference cs go. their competitive matchmaking system is great. you queue in the system until 10 people are available within a decent enough ping range then you are locked into the equivalent of a pickup where people are persuaded to play properly for 2 reasons. firstly if you ragequit you get a competitve cooldown and repeat offences lead to longer bans. secondly you get ranked and can progress up higher ranks which means as you improve so do the opponents. it's a great system that encourages developing ones skill and knowledge. the way quake is now, you get to a certain level and then you're thrown in with the sharks. ugly sharks. abuse, rape and humiliation follows. and damn have official servers but let people host their own. just do as valve do and put a warning that there may be custom content and gamemodes as people join.

customization is the money maker for id. player models, gun models, map textures, sounds, taunts, colors for chat text, hats, capes, whatever. make as many as you can so players can differentiate themselves from one another. i guess these requires forcemodels to be a thing of the past but so be it. players want to put their own personal touch on their characters these days and every other fps seems to have embraced it.

lastly exposure. now apparently quakelive had massive figures when it first launched and that was great but where is the exposure now? tagged onto a few other esport title's tournaments. maybe an ad here and there. word of mouth? get it on steam. it's a fantastic platform with probably the biggest userbase outside of the consoles. going it solo doesn't seem to be working.

there is a vision for what quake could have been. popular, streamed worldwide, the apex of esport fps. right now it's just staying above water and totally dependant on its creators. it could go on like this for aslong as they fund it and we will play but i think it could be as big as any game you want to mention but the people in charge of the money need to feel the same and for that maybe a dream can be sold.

dribbled on a bit, don't know why you got this reply pu1 but there we go. bed time.

yeah, id tech 3 was a wonder.

QL rework will take 1-2 years
Quake 5 will take 3-5 years

q4 redux should take 6 months - 1 year and would cost less to produce than both of those :)

dude stop it, there's a reason Q4 never was popular.
Q3 just feels better.

there's a reason why q3/ql keeps dying it's because it's not fun to watch for outsiders. too much positioning and not enough speed/skill.

i won't mind supporting quakelive for a couple of more years, but it NEEDS to go after that. I'll be moving on and im sure a lot of others will too.

If you want speed/skill you should go for CPM, not Q4.
And I highly doubt outsiders who don't watch QL now would watch Q4 (or CPM). Most people are just not interested in fast paced fps anymore. Even if id released Q5 and all the players loved it, it would never come close to lol and dota in numbers.

i've shown q4 to halo/cod friends of mine
they were definitely interested in quake 4. some even asked if the game was still alive because they wanted to play.
however, they didn't care about the ql vids i posted :/
(i showed them vids about a year ago)

i wouldn't mind cpm, but cpm is probably too hardcore for your average ql player. quake 4.1 would probably be a better game to use, it'd be like an in between of cpm and q3.

Oh, you asked some halo/cod vets? WELL SHIT, EVERYONE, TBE HAS FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM HERE.

yes, i do.
fast paced action beats out positional play when it comes to spectating.
just because you sucked at ql doesn't mean you'll suck at q4.1.
maybe the movement will click with you and you'll be decent this time. no reason why you should be hesitant to try a different game out.
understood, mob*wormed?

quake 4 sucked... that's why no one plays it.

oh look, a known esr troll is trying to stir shit up.
how surprising

no... the game sucked. If it was so great people would still be playing it. They don't.

age 33 and trolling, lol.
are you autistic? depressed?
pm me and i'll let you cry on my shoulders tonight.

I guess you didn't get the memo.

quake 4 was ok, the community [yeah, you guys here] are shit.

q4 needed serious patching like any mp game. you faggots couldnt wait, and discarded the game.

Q4 IS TERRIBLE PLEASE STOP IT.

New game from id?
At least 10 years.

I personally hope that they still can release ANY game now.
And i fear that if they will do Quake\Doom game, they will make some casual BS.

some inside info,

apparently bethesda/zenimax is going to support ql a lot more soon(-ish).

and by support, i mean development and tournaments.

How do you know? This could be great(-ish).

btw, id is searching a new Design Director.
http://www.bluesnews.com/s/144514/id-hiring-a-design-director

vamp1re
a
m
p
1
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e

huh what you mean.

i wanna ask you, do you still play q4. what would you say is the playercount worldwide, 50? i dont mean it sarcastic and i try not to flame against other games, im just interested.

vamp1re is a player/designer
someone who would kick ass at that position ;p

not answering your other questions because they don't matter.
if id can improve q4, ppl will switch over without any issue. it's that simple.

i'm going to bed now. cheers.

surprisingly theres still a lot of ppl from q3/ql whose pc cant handle q4 and Im still having doubts you can attract CoD/MoA kiddies to quake.

Shit I can barely run QL!

might be funny to americano, but in eastern parts of EU its not.

Dude I'm not kidding....

4 year old intel integrated shit laptop. I get like 60 frames on asylum and quarantine.

does the scene matter for sales?
easier gameplay and cod influences will come. i bet 100 euros in beer on that. but i dont wanna win :D

I'm in the same boat as naper. It's not only possible in eastern Europe.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74076095/...antine.jpg

Just asylum/quarantine and some minor drops on toxicity by the goop?

No. Asylum and quarantine are among the worst but nothing runs at 125 fps. Sometimes I can get 125 fps when looking at some walls, sure. But I'd say it's about 80 on average. It really depends on the maps (and position in the map) and the number of players. Some maps run in the 50, some in the 90, etc.

Solidarity brother.

I was able to run Q4 on a P4 650 with a 500MB TurboCache graphics card. It baffles me how people struggle to run QL. Q3 ran on the very first computer I had, a Celeron at ~760 mhz and a whopping 8MB VRAM, and it ran flawlessly.

It's 20-FUCKING-13!!

Intel integrated gfx, 128mb shared gfx memory.

you can find a decent C2Q for maybe $30, and a MOBO to go with that for roughly the same, maybe up to $60 on ebay.

I'm aware, I just don't have the expendable resources right now where I can justify spending money to build another computer when I have a laptop that can handle all of my work/school related tasks. It's ok, I don't like those two maps anyways :D

It's actually, sort of sardonically funny, the fact that all the filthy casuals worry about their Tri- and Quad-SLI and their 4770Ks with 4.7GHz overclocks, where the people that really care about their gaming are on bizarrely outdated machines. I'm myself on a Frankenputer from years and years ago, ad am happy as Larry, while it seems the masses are worried that they won't be able to run BF4 or Crysis 3 on max settings.

It's almost like feeding cows beef, and then being surprised when things turn to shit.

I had a nice gaming computer but I gave it to my brother when I went to school, funny though because I have a crt from craigslist now and a nice mouse/keyboard so my performance is a lot better on this crappy laptop than it ever was on my PC. I only wish I could play Rome 2 total war when it releases.

There are enthusiasts and there are gamers. Cross the two to influence today's youth and there is a recipe for disaster. The gaming peripheral companies and enthusiast component industries are laughing all the way to the bank.

Oh, totally agreed. I wouldn't slam the enthusiasts- their passion is to them as ours is to us.

It's the kiddies who crave the bling factor are what annoys me.

i read euro country like pc for games, us not so much. console gaming is bigger in us.

Very true, and it happens to be more true the further East you go.

When I was a kid, even though most of us had some sort of a console, we'd stick to PCs. One could say it was how much money wi didn't have, one could say it was the prices of consoles and games, but from my point of view, the culture had the biggest part in everyone sticking to PC.

That's my view anyway.

i did spent money into pc, to this day. but people around me buy smartphones each year, tablets, notebooks and stuff. 10 years back i didnt understand why people had a pc that only can run quakeworld. if someone see a reason for a good pc, he buy it. even a kid can work. but ok, there are so many other ways to spent money now.

i think studios profit from valve statistics. maybe all big download platforms grab performance data. im actually shocked about gamers, with steam achiements you can see general stats how much people finish a game. no wonder the games length was reduced.

any desktop pc from 2008 onward should handle q4 easily.
the problem with q4 is that it needs q4max to get 125 fps, so the game will run like shit if you play without it. syncerror would have to patch up the game again before it can be re-released.

I would love to see how much the D3:BFG engine would help q4 - there is a good chance that dwarfs many of the q4max perf changes. I don't have time to even think about trying it myself though.

Oh god you are over the place.

Q4 sucked because it feel blocky as fuck (lol at crashing against the pillar's ledges in DM6)
Q4 sucked because the graphics were depressing to look at
Q4 sucked because the movement on the models was pathetic
Q4 sucked because the sounds were uninspiring
Q4 sucked because it had that greasy plastic feeling of the new engine
Q4 sucked because railing a guy and seeing the blood effects wasn't as satisfying as Q3 (from a noob POV)
Q4 sucked because it was Q3 again done without the aesthetics, the fun factor, nothing (noobs don't give a fuck about crouch sliding lol)
Q4 sucked because it was BORING

hate on q4 all you want, but it's not going to stop the inevitable.
(a new q4 styled game by id :P)
better start working on your crouch sliding ;p


noobs do care about fun factor/speed.
why do you think so many prefer cod over battlefield?
watching someone +back isn't appealing to noobs/console players.
that's why q3 keeps failing to catch an audience. slow gameplay + high amounts of positioning isn't interesting to outsiders, they want to see more action than what ql offers.

yes, positioning won't be as imortant in q4.1, but it won't be a night and day difference.
to compensate, syncerror could add in some cpm elements to increase the skill(think about it sync)

just curious
tell me the real reason why you don't want to see q4.1? were you terrible at q4? are you bad at quakelive and are afraid of being more left behind in a new quake4? what's the real reason that you hate q4?
the reasons you gave above are mostly bullshit and the stuff that isn't bullshit can easily be fixed.


edit: there will be a new quake game or upgrade coming up, it is happening.
syncerror is a fan of q4
i'm not actually guaranteeing a new q4 game, but i do think the chances of it returning are very good.

im not sure he is a fan. he joined id at the q4 mp patches phase.

You played a lot of q4 and now you are hoping that the shitty games comes back so you don't feel like you wasted a lof of time trying to become a pro in a shit game that no one wants back.

Not gonna happen buddy.

No because Q4 is depressing to look at.

he probably has good ideas when he worked for PMX and could be perfectly ported to any new fps

dumping $$$ into esports doesnt make the game successful imo. look at LCS. LoL has like 40 million active players? the regular LCS match gets 200k tops. The finals last year had a million. 40 million players and only small percentage even cares about competitive.

same thing with cod. their Million dollar final had 140k on twitch but millions and millions play cod. only a small percentage gave 2 shits about their superbowl.

They dumping the money in as prize money, but it should be focused more on advertisement. Doesn't 1Mil give you nation-wide advertisement?

1 million dollars on an esports tourney will give way more exposure than 1 million worth of tv ads.

1-most young ppl don't even watch much tv for one and most use adblockers on their browsers.
2-it gives a big incentive for players to keep playing(yah, most won't make a dollar, but it's still nice to have a carrot in front of you)
3-gaming/national media gives free publicity to the game because of it. so yes, it does get nationwide advertising.


as for low stream numbers
streaming is still in its infancy, expect to see the numbers increasing.
it wouldn't shock me if those numbers double by this year or the next.

When did I say "tv ads"? I said advertisement.

edit: I've never seen any ads on tv, on the street, in papers, by word, nothing. So no, it does not get nation-wide advertisement.

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/202157...ntxml.html

http://www.demorgen.be/dm/nl/5402/Games/artic...nooi.dhtml

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/08/12/alliance-wi...-earns-ov/

wtf ads are you talking about then?
web ads that no one sees because of adblocker?
street advertising? I don't think billboards will work on people who like spending time indoors

Those are all news sites reporting on what is news to them.

A targeted advertisement campaign done by a professional advertisement agency is a whole lot different. They use techniques that try to convice people to try your product.

A journalist is not an advertising agent.

Everyone watches TV when you are eating/dinning.

LCS is broadcast on more than just twitch, supposedly the viewcount on Azubu is far beyond what twitch gets. But you're right that as a percentage of their playerbase, the numbers aren't incredible. However, do you think that actually matters? It's not like Quake can turn around and say "hey we only got a small playerbase but can get a few thousand viewers sometimes, we're so good", because at the end of the day, the difference in viewers is still in the hundreds of thousands.

The time is ripe for esports to become more popular. Gaming is extremely popular, has it has always been. but now there is the ability to cover these things affordably as if it was a sporting event.

QL needs improvement, no doubt, but it's still the best (IMO) platform for competition between two talented gamers.

What I'm trying to get across is that 1v1 games are all about the players. The game is just a medium to allow the players to compete. Good games will allow gamers to max out every skill they have and provide the best medium for a competition.

So id needs to realize they need to spotlight the pros. Interview the players together before the match, interview players after the match. Make it about the players.

Also QL could use some (APIs?) that would allow for spectators to see a live map overly to indicate player positions for people who don't know the map. They also could use a function that would allow the broadcasters to replay the last kill in slow motion on a separate screen or a PIP.

They need to bring back the gore in a big way. Blood and limbs and heads should be flying around.

And the announcers would have to use less inside talk (abbreviations, etc) and explain things really simple.

it could be done though, if done right.

They are too aspie to realize the gore effects were really fun from a noob's point of view to watch. They think making the game PG13 will get more people playing than making the game fun with the blood stuff and PG18+. Do people still think because a game is PG18, younger people will not play it? lol. Me and my friends were playing Carmageddon at 11.
I've shown friends fragvideos and they liked the blood all over the hair with the rails, it still looks great today. When they tried the game, there was no blood and they were dissapointed. The game feels too light and these white sparks look like bright cum it's stupid.

I mean GTA, Call of Duty Black Ops, Gears of War.. look at the playerbase of these PG18 games.
Lol at giving a fuck about these things and ruining the game in the process.

The age rating stuff is hilarious for sure, with the intention of opening up the potential player base all it does is gimp the interest. What are about to be the biggest games of the year? GTA5 and CoD:Ghosts. Both 18 rated games and to console kids, both edgy and cool to own because you're partly flouting authority by owning and playing them. If you're that kid whose parents won't let them play those games, you're laughed at and made fun of. Neither game will have to cripple itself to hit an age rating and they'll both deliver the full experience that the designers intended.

Gibs and blood are supposed to be in Quake, people loved the visuals of them, they get removed out of some misguided sense that it will help spread the game, unbelievable.

I agree, but it's funny how you got all the [+]'s saying basically what I already said.

to this day people ask me how to enable blood & gore in quakelive when they see a fresh quakelive wolfcam movie. there is a demand for gore, no doubt. gore is badass.

but its tricky, a few countrys are checking and cutting games. australia, germany, etc.

Fuck these countries. Also, im sure there is always a way to play the game as it was intended bypassing the dumb laws on certain countries.

QL has been ruined thanks to removing gibs alone.

I still play CPM with gibs on. Why not it's awesome when I make players explode :D.

I played Duke 3D when I was 6 years old and Carmageddon too lol.
Ratings system is useless. Hell even GTA V had tons of parents buy it for their 12 year old kids.

Focus on the pros? Lol.

That's it, focus on pros of one segment of a game, a niche within a niche. Majority of QL players do not duel but play other modes and majority do not give two shits about the pros.

Focus on the newbs!

Having the most newb friendly game types behind a paywall? Can someone explain that? It's really really fucking stupid,

Newb plays QL, enjoys it and tells his friend who then repeats the process x10000. It's not rocket science. Make more newb friendly game types until the ultimate one is found and do not put them behind a fucking pay wall. Simple.

Big cash prizes on tourneys? I can not think of a bigger waste of cash that should be used in developing the game and making it a better one.

If you want to continue to grow the game community and the viewer numbers you need to see them both as the same thing.

Quake Live is the way it is and I support the devs for the changes they have made since it first came out. The game has been designed as a competitive style game, yes there is a million things that everyone wants them to add to the game itself but again it is what it is. There is a tier system, a stats system(3rd party too qlranks.com), a chat system, and a friends system. There is a free to play system which you must deal with the pains of ads and delays to be able to play. There is also a premium/pro system which makes everything alot better and when you add qlprism to it there is a ton more stuff which benefits the the player.

As a event organizer the future of QL is in our hands for promoting and growing the game. I think Faceit and 125FPS and the smaller event organizers in N.A. are making the right choices. Using the newer maps is the first step in the right direction it promotes a fresh new look in game, as well as it supports the community map makers and actually drives them to continue to create and develop maps for the community to play. They are also consistently running events every week which creates viewership loyalty and demonstrates that there is a competitive scene in the community.

Everything in quake has always been about what the players want and need but when you truly look at a successfully gaming community they also appeal to the people who have never seen or heard about the game before or people who are trying to learn the game. I feel like the game as a viewer until recently has been stagnant it seemed to always be the same maps played over and over by the same players yes that creates some amazing matches by some of the best players in the world but it does not actually grow the game.

I have heard Rapha say many times that he really enjoys playing the new maps. I am sure he says this because he is the type of person that loves a new challenge and learning and mastering a new map is what he is all about. I have watched him play some different maps in some events and he moves through them like he had been playing them for years and even though they are only maybe 2 years old and are not popular at all.

So what I am trying to say is we also need to promote the tools(qlprism) to make the game easier to play as well as continue to support the growth of the game(maps) and the community(players). For a long time I have seen a lot of bitching and not a lot of positive promotion of the game and that seems to be changing now.

Good on idsoftware, the community, and the event organizers for continuing in this positive direction. Qcon was a great success and we are riding a great high from it so lets keep it positive and lets keep playing the game we love and competing for the money and prizes. Where do we go from here who knows but I am sure we will figure it out someone will come up with something new which will continue to wow us even more.

You are totally right!
QL must be more friendly for begiinners. But ID still can't make it !
! BUT NOW FACEIT CAN !
Just make some movies or rubrik in faceit show where some pro tell about how to use weapons, how to time, something about cfg, first spawns, how to dodge, etc and show!
Its like Heaton tips
Strenx lessons

Yes, call it Quake Faceit instead of Quake Live and retire the devs while we're at it.

Yes, faceit and 125fps are doing awesome, but they can't afford to fly the players to qcon. That's where id should step in at the very least.

The pros that play QL should be promoted like players in any successful sport. It's the personalities and the rivalries and the big time matches that are interesting. People focus too much on the fact that the game is old... so what?

I guess my feeling is that either id should get serious about their best game they ever made (and one of the best games ever made) or they should sell the franchise to people who love the game, people who grew up with it, know how to play it at a high level and will respect it.

I'm not really sure id is committed to Quake. And it's sad to hear the pros get interviewed and talk about how they can't afford to come to the tourneys.

How was the turn out at Qcon? I saw all the interviews and everyone looked like they were enjoying themselves. it was cool to see some people being interviewed that i used to play ctf with at Quake&weed like 8 years ago or whatvever.

Thanks for promoting the game/

You really have no idea how much money id software spends just to run the BYOC every year the AC costs alone to maintain that chilled temperature is retarded. Not to mention the costs involved with renting out that massive space for the BYOC, Vendor Area, Pro Area and the Finals Room. The prize pool is probably like 5% of what id spends on the whole entire QCON event. That is a massive amount of cash that is forked out every year by a game dev company to bring us a free event to go to and enjoy. QCON has become a celebration of gaming now more then a competition event.

Yes like sirscoots, DjWheat and Slasher have said time and time again there are some things that need to be fixed in order to make the event more presentable to the viewer audience that is not actually there. But when you actually go there it is an amazing experience, and I don't think anyone will deny that. Bringing Faceit in this year was a massive step in the right direction, they came in with Sirscoots help and nailed it the actual quality of the show was amazing. those guys worked insane crazy hours to bring us some great coverage of QCON and I am thankful for that mostly because I think it is a step in the right direction and id software is trying to take that next step in making this a well rounded massive event for everyone not just the players that come to the event.

I really wish I had been able to really truly experience QCON like everyone else had. I met a lot of really cool Quake players that I have known and played Quake with for years. As well as enjoyed meeting the devs and event organizers like Faceit who I have been working with for awhile now. The only really disappointing thing was the fact that I went to QCON and actually had to watch the finals from the VOD's when I got home. But that is a whole different ball of wax I just prefer to not get into.

So to say that id software does not spend enough money on this game is insane I do not see any other company single handedly running the largest FREE LAN event in the WORLD and the largest LAN in North America. They spend money they just spend it all at once in one single place. As for paying for players to attend their event I have not heard of any gaming company actually forking over cash for flights and hotel fees for the top players to attend their events.

They forked over a ton of cash for a tourney that only 3 people had a chance to win and only the quake community knew or cared about. I guess my point isn't really being made about showcasing the players as a vehicle to promoting the esport.

But I think faceit and 125 get it at least, they just have to figure out how to grow their fanbase with limited money and no control over the game or it's evolution.

Which is pretty much what every other event organizer does.

Quake is the best of fps gaming, and this is why this is the saddest thing. A game which should be top 1 is dying...

and they should include cpma in QL instead of PQL...


add hats, gold weapons... win. lol

ok, but you cant deny that timing gives you great info about where you should position yourself etc

I came here to repeat what I posted on 6 August 2010. QL will never be successful because it's retardedly expensive. Ever since WoW came out I vowed to never pay a subscription for a game, and I still haven't. $50 dollars for a fucken year, or $7 for a month. You have got to be fucking kidding. As much fun as I have playing the same 10 people over and over again, I would rather go play battlefield(and that's saying a lot, because it's shit)

Take a fucken page out of Valve's book and look at dota 2. Free to play game that attracts MILLIONS of players. They are making so much money from it that they can afford to dump millions in prize money for esports as well. They even included LAN support.

I'm not familiar with Dota 2. What do they sell? Where does their money come from? Can it really work with QL?

They mainly sell cosmetic items. But they also sell in-game "tickets" where you can watch your favourite leagues.

In their last Valve tournament( The International 3) they sold compendiums(virtual game cards and predictions and stuff, and win ingame prizes when watching in the game client or twitch) for $10 and for every compendium bought they would add $2.5 to the prize pool. I stand under correction but i think they raised close to $4 000 000 to add to the prize pool(that's what, $16 million in sales). Not bad.

So..... you're suggesting that id should start selling cosmetic items?....

Err, did i say that? No, but they could put a little fucken thought into it. Make a gtv, have people buy tickets to be able to watch events. Give them more stats. Custom gun skins if they're into that, huds, who cares. It gives people choice and they like that. I'm sure there's much more if they applied their minds.

Fuck, there is so much that could be done and would allow them to make a lot more money. They just need to remove their fingers from their arseholes and actually do something.

Man, just imagine the rage that would flow if they were to forbid free streams/gtv of big events to make it "pay to watch". It also wouldn't give the game much exposure, which is arguably the most important effect of big tournaments for id. I really don't think that can work out.

Just imagine the rage if they were to remove the currently free HUD possibilities to make it pay-only. Removing content is never seen well by players.

Just imagine the rage if they were to remove the force model/skin possibilities to allow cosmetic items, weapon skins, etc.

I'm not sure Quake is a kind of game where these things can work. Maybe it would, sure, but that's a big gamble and I don't think they would try it unless the game really was in danger of having its plug pulled.

Yes it can work. Just make it so the stuff you unlock is everything the premium account has (maps, scoreboard and so on).
In Dota2 you can be top without spending a peny. You can take a shortcut by playing, similarly to LOL aswell. Just do this with QL. Paying as the only way to have a 100% unlocked game (maps) is a joke. No one cares that much. I dont know a single person that has paid for a LOL Champion ever.

Just like when they introduced premium/pro? :p I don't remember much rage...

edit: also, people would still be able to watch streams, just i dunno about you, but i'd much rather watch in game.

Just like when they introduced premium/pro? :p I don't remember much rage...

I think it would be much worse for two reasons :

1. No content was taken away from the freebies when they introduced premium/pro. Your suggestion implies taking some capabilities away (even for current subscribers).

2. It was going out of beta. A free beta. That has an impact on people's mind. While players didn't expect that turn of event, they still knew they were in a free beta, which always carries the risk of losing on some things on release.

edit: also, people would still be able to watch streams, just i dunno about you, but i'd much rather watch in game.

Ah. I guess some people would be interested in paying for that even with free streams running. I don't really think it would be popular or worth developing, but maybe.

It's not $7, it's $4 per month. And this is ridiculously low. Would you please elaborate on how much did you spend on:

- your gaming PC and peripherals;
- your internet connection;
- your electricity bill

— all that allows you to play games? And if you can afford this, you can't find another $4 for Quake? Fine, then pay $2 for premium and save a little cash. Still don't want to pay? Sorry, but then you don't want to play so much either, or are just a cheapskate.

1 month is 7.99 i believe... or something around there. You only get discounts if you buy more. If you don't think that's expensive for a game that is arguably 15 or so years old then yea, go for it.

It's all well good that you can label people cheapskates for not bowing down and paying a ridiculous price, but just remember that I'm actually a very big quake fan, more people wouldn't even think twice. They'd rather go play GTA or something. And it's those very people that quake needs to survive. It's no wonder it's struggled.

premium is $3.99 and pro is $7.99/month if you go for 1 month at a time.

Sorry, that was too much of a ragepost.

On the other hand, GTA V seems to cost about $70 here and GTA IV is $27 in Steam, is that significantly better than QL's $24 for Premium? Remember that old game != bad game, to which there are quite a few examples (and QL hopefully being one of them).

Here one might say that GTA price is paid once and QL payment is annual. But would people play GTA continuously for over a year?

I agree that QL is not really cheap.
Its 24$ for premium and 48$ for pro per year. All need to know also that Quake is very old game. At least we should receive smth more from id. Dunno... proper PQL mode maybe...

With promotional game deals I can buy a lot quite new games for such price. And not everybody is playing Quake all the time. There are very casual people too.

Without new players a lot of people is quiting fast because it is too hard for them. Most of Quake players are 25+ year old probably... young players don't like it coz its too hard and looks maybe ugly for them.

dota 2 (f2p) and csgo (b2p, but very cheap) has very good business system imo, not p2w, + cosmetic hats/skins etc, very popular, crowdfunding tournaments. CSGO with f2p probably will be most popular fps game. (or look at TF2... now is the most popular fps game)

PS. I don't have a problem to pay for quake... imo more people = better than niche.

...
damnit

id/activision/betheda/zenimax, id tech games:
Quake
Doom
Wolfenstein
RTCW/ ET
ETQW
Brink

Awesome potential in these games. And all a bit f***d up.

btw. who has rights to ET now? Zenimax?