I sorta skimmed it. I don't follow dota/cs/lol enough to know what exactly constitutes as skins in those games. Here's what I do know...
when I see a cool ass gun in CSGO, I kinda want that. It's also a bit tempting for me to spend something as little as a dollar on one of those weapon skins. Just cuz... why not its only $1? Often this can compound into 15$ by the end of the day. some even more.

What im saying is idk where to draw that parallel in quake. custom models? wouldn' t make much sense cuz you can't see yourself playing in one and if ur opponent can force a model (bright keel/tank), whats the point??

Weapon skins?? most people play with drawgun 0... again no point.

Maybe different map skins would be cool. I really liked the aerowalk skin I saw in the NEU team's video. Id pay a buck or two for that, sure why not. or ammo skins. Ya i'd like to shoot angry birds out of my grenade launcher and get a different hit sound everytime i hit a direct nade. I guess a lot can be left to interpretation. Since we do not even have the ability to make such things, we can't really guess as to what they might lead to or could have led to in the past (great success for the game or no success at all)

well i included that they woudl have to disable the force enemy model and draw gun 0 options. maybe its too late for that lol

ya I probably wouldn't play without those

they did say "BIG GAMEPLAY CHANGES" i think forcing models and draw guns change the whole aspect of quake.

you would still see the weapon skin on the enemy.

some of my ideas for a pro sub.


Custom team logos on ctf flags/ wall banners and player jerseys.
custom jerseys ... color, design, ect ect (syncs idea from 2009ish)
Your player name/number on back of jersey.
Ability to upload face pic to apply to your own player model.
custom weapon skins/models with clan name/ logo on the side.
custom projectiles (different looks for rocket ect ect... plasma.)



QlRadiant included for map making (only id approved textures available for use... copyright shit)
Custom team maps for tdm ctf CA.. sort of a home turf map. Sports teams have their own stadiums... you get the idea.

You can get the idea of possible micro transactions that aren't play to win.
Obviously some cvars would have to be done away with and some people would be mad.

weapon model i think is good idea because the possible new player and casual player like use gun model and customization the game.

ORG subscriptions is rlly interesting with this many more people have possibility play tournament without difficulty

the weapon have to remain the same style, we always base our fighting technique based on which weapon the opponent is currently holding. Having different weapon skin would completely break the ability to adapt to your opponent.

Bullet types are a bad idea as well, something as simple as a color can make a projectile much more distracting to the other players, let alone a different model as presented in the "angry bird" joke.

I don't even know why a lots of people keep proposing these cosmetics mtx system. Its not because it fit well in a model like LoL that it will automatically work well with any other genre.

The only kind of cosmetics you could perhaps add would be the non-invasive ones that would modify how your name, logo is presented on the scoreboard, profiles features or in-game character models (they can still be observed in spectator mode / avatar)

those are some really good points

cosmetics isnt really problem you can make option to disable
its just an example. I think the most important things is not remove forcemodel or remove gameplay mechanics

Cosmetics have been used in FPS games many, many times already -this is not only a LoL thing-, and across all genres I have never, ever seen a cosmetic that breaks the game or that is advantageous in itself.

Not only those microtransactions are proven to be viable in similar games to QL, so might be tried here, but also in the case a specific one is advantageous or annoying remember microtransactions are centralized, so we can contact id to remove or modify it.

In that sense, microtransactions are not opening the gates to everyone being able to use custom community/own made and without authorization from id, like it was it was in lets say Quake2, where everyone uses custom textures playing in custom maps. Here the gate is open only to getting access to more content made by id, or at the very most of accessing to specific community content only if approved by id and that is given to us in a centralized manner (steam workshop). You won't see a rocket launcher shooting green dicks.

Specifically about new weapon models and skins, those aren't a problem at all.
1. The centralized system means you most likely won't see something that doesn't resemble the default rocket launcher model. Even in the case a model is different than Q3's RL, it still will be clear that it shoots rockets.
2. That system also means there won't be hundreds of RL models. At the very most there will be 5.
3. Skins don't really change how the weapon looks to your opponent, in the sense that a green RL still clearly looks like a RL.
4. With weapons it takes just watching one shot to associate a model does the same as the core weapon. This means the hypothetical very most harm this business model does is dying once in one match, but in practice in other fps games with cosmetic microtransactions I have never died once because of this, so there's no harm whatsoever. Furthermore, the patch notes should include a video with all the cosmetics added in one patch, or play one ca match you'll know all of the models. problem solved.

With that said, cosmetics can be quite fun for everyone and can be quite tasteful. For example they could be weapons from older quake games, for starters. In TF2 people paid tons of money just for the QW rocket launcher, as it came only by buying the whole id software games pack on steam during a specific period of time.
Actually those deal with all of your issues already, since they clearly resemble what they are (the QW and Q2's RL look like a RL, or Q4's railgun looks like a railgun) and lots of us already know them. Could be even clearer if the player model is forced to QW's or Q2's when using those weapons, ranger and grunt.

Also not all microtransactions necessarily have to be seen by all players, or during gameplay. More killbeeps ('harosh' included), more clan flags/logos, access to using a longer clan tag (this paid so syncerror decides to finally work on this), etc. etc.

Finally, two somewhat related things:
1. Lots of these cosmetics don't even need hiring someone to do them, just some little money. There's the q3 mod called "generations arena" to getting those weapon models, projectiles and others. They have an agreement with id, that can be expanded so they are paid for their work, Then killbeeps can be bought or use non copyrighted ones, or use id's own or make their own as some are absurdly easy to make; anyone at id can make clan logos, some may be even gave away by us like esr's and zoot's, etc.
2. People are so afraid of change here it actually ended up being the reason why QL has been on the verge of death so many times, last year included. You have to have new and shiny looking stuff in order to sell something, not just a q3 straight off copypaste with a geocities interface, and someone shooting pink rails running around with a cooller mask won't make your playing experience worse, if anything more fun.

Cosmetics have been used in FPS games many, many times already -this is not only a LoL thing-, and across all genres I have never, ever seen a cosmetic that breaks the game or that is advantageous in itself.

I brought LoL in because it is a well known game using this model. And while yes, there is multiple FPSes that use microtransactions, none of them are eSports. I doubt FIFA would be happy if every teams were allowed to wear any kind of hats and clothing. The distinction here is that the game is supposed to be competitive as opposed to casual.

3. Skins don't really change how the weapon looks to your opponent, in the sense that a green RL still clearly looks like a RL.
4. With weapons it takes just watching one shot to associate a model does the same as the core weapon. This means the hypothetical very most harm this business model does is dying once in one match, but in practice in other fps games with cosmetic microtransactions I have never died once because of this, so there's no harm whatsoever. Furthermore, the patch notes should include a video with all the cosmetics added in one patch, or play one ca match you'll know all of the models. problem solved.

Actually, the color is the core distinctive feature that allow the weapon to be recognized from mid to far distances.

And knowing if your opponent has a specific weapon BEFORE he has actually fired anything or after a weapon switch are the most crucial part. I don't thinks anybody was arguing that the weapons projectiles would not be recognizable anymore.

CS:GO and CoD use them and are clearly "e-sports". Quake is not one, since it's been outside the scene for years by now.

Have you tried a game with weapon skins, ever? It does not work like you described.

this whole player/enemy model thingy is only worth it if we can force the sounds for the model we use and for the enemy.

pink or greenshaft
custom rail particles
custom rocket explosions ala wolfcam
ive put money into both dota 2 and cs (around 1000$)
so i wouldnt mind investing into quake stuff if i like it and if it sponsors tournaments

Not bad but imo I think a transaction system on Quake Model Skins would be short lived you need something that actually engages the community for a longer period of time. This would be a fun addition though for special things like yes holidays, where you could have a Jack-o-Lantern head during Halloween!

My Idea would be have a fake coin system built off of actual activity in Quake Live. The in game coin system would be based on awards achieved in a match, so the more impressive's or excellent's you earned the higher your earnings. You could also base it on the awards you achieve from the system already in the game.(Career Milestones, Experience, Mad Skillz, Social Life, and sweet Success).

The system could also be geared around teams/clan tags too. The more you play as a team the extra coin you would receive as a team. This would in turn promote the team side of the game which would in turn help revive the competitive scene in team based game modes for Quake Live. There could also be the usual in game awards but in the team based games you could receive coin based off of Holy Shit kills in CTF or Consecutive kill streaks in TDM by one player with quad.

This coin system you could use to bet on competitive events. You could also purchase coins through micro transactions in order to place bets as well, this is what would actually be used to fund continued development of the game(maps, content, what have you), as well as Prize Pools for the Competitive Scene.

These are actually just a few things off the top of my head if I actually sat down and thought about this for awhile or brainstormed with a few other people there is a very good possibility to coming up with a sustainable system for Quake Live which would promote more fun play as well as revive the competitive scene through micro-transactions/time played by the community as a whole.

if there were more map developers. I would suggest something like what valve is doing with counter-strike global offensive as well as basically making standard what premium was and having pro members get the maps with there pro subscriptions and I suppose they could implement something like the drops with weapon skins but honestly its quake so I kind of laugh at the thought of having weapon skins.

They've already done that.
Bunch of premium stuff is now free (scoreboards, killbeep) free users can play premium maps if they're on a server, pro users can spawn any gametype for free users.

How about cosmetic stuff that you can only see on the local client?
10 different kinds of gibs or whatever effects. Have the enemies look like Freddy Kruger (1.50$), the shaft like a billiard cue (1.00$), and when you shoot a corpse it explodes into a pile of rainbows, unicorns and kittens (3.00$). Custom texture packs for the maps (5.00$ per map) etc.

This idea would serve a completely different purpose than the cosmetics items from other games though where people mainly buy these things to show off to others and make their char unique. The objective of the QL purchases would be to give every player the possibility to make his playing experience look excactly how he wants (in true Quake spirit), but now instead of things like picmip or overbrightbits, you give people the possibility of choosing map textures, weapon, team and enemy models, effects etc.. But you charge for them.
This could also interesting for more competitition oriented people. If there's an enemy model available that's literally just the hitbox cilinder in bright green with more distinct "screams" for <75/<50/<25hp then pros might be interested in these things too, and since the default stuff (everything currently available) would obviously be free, you couldn't argue with pay2win, since what we have now allows you to compete reasonably well.

"Having the ability to control multiple servers will be beneficial for many tournament organizers and large scale clans. I’ve organized tournaments in the past and it was a pain in the ass when certain players couldn’t get their own servers. I had to find other pro subscribers to create extra servers. Right now this is the only other subscription option that seems necessary."

word.

This already exists guys and is only for tournament organizers.

I'd like having the ability to spawn LAN servers and also of spawning "server locations" separate from id software's authorized ones, anywhere in the world and using my own internet connection/PC to do so,even if it takes paying a premium.

Word!

wishful thinking, but not happening

Microtransactions have been suggested since 2008 and people -generally- agreed they would probably pay extra for brand new models, announcers, weapon skins or ql page themes.

The problem is that this would involve, you know, work.
People seem to get so easily carried away when they read big changes they forget they are still looking at the pre-aplha interface.

I agree that it's great and people want it, but id doesn't care. The fact that they just changed their subscription pricing proves that they're not doing anything.

You skipped on a lot of stuff that can be bought. Signatures by players (Cooller signature omg!), casters and personalities, tickets for demos, maps, , items that give you items (QCon compendium, predict top3 cypher cyphe cypher), clan decorations and so much more.

In the end , it's good that somebody is writing something though. Props for that.

How about we scratch all that F2P bullshit and make the game like 20$? Wouldn't that be the best solution...

It's not a lot more than that.
They ask for it the next year too so they can actually keep it running so you have places to play that year as well.

Nah.

1, There aren't enough players for getting enough sells. In the "regular" business model you need millions of sales in order to be successful.

2. The game wouldn't have enough players in the servers to be playable. Reason is the majority of players have 'standard' accounts, who would be lost in the transition.

3. With the subscription and/or microtransaction models each customer ends up paying a lot more for the game than if they were to buy it in one payment, therefore increasing the revenue of the company. If QL had cost $20 from the start then id software would have missed the payments of people that have been subbed for years, that paid $200 or more overall. In other words, here the bills are paid by those guys that have paid many times over what CS:GO costs, and frankly it would be stupid to accept $20 when you can get $200.

4. For $20 QL wouldn't be competitive. In steam for $10 you get fantastic entirely new or very recent games, with awesome graphics, great single player, whole new gameplay, genres and multiplayer mechanics, in the end a new experience as vast as Quake1 was in its time, or hunting deers in a vast land or spying and whatnot; whereas in QL you would be paying $20 to re-play Q3, an unappealing multiplayer-only old ass game. Under those conditions no one that isn't a Q3-only freak would buy the game, since CS:GO is a much, much better buy.

5. QL doesn't differentiate itself that much with Q3, so for 'outsiders' a cheaper Q3 is much more appealing. You see, right now the whole quake collection is $30 in steam, which goes down a lot in price during steam sales (maybe $10? I know there's a site with comparisons), so why get the more expensive Q3/QL for $20?

6. There are running costs higher than in other games, such as paying for server locations. However I agree this isn't a very a compelling argument, as if the game sells 20 million copies then it isn't an issue, plus lots of those costs can be dramatically reduced by going back to the usual non-centralized spawning system or p2p, like in the vast majority of fps games. A great example here is LoL, which must pay millions of dollars in server locations alone, but doesn't have a sub model that gives them constant revenue like subs and they don't find the running costs impossible to pay at all.

All those are the reasons why niche games like QL go for the subs model. The problem here is that those embrace the microtransactions model too, having both at the same time. Another reasonable way is removing subs entirely and only having microtransactions. Finally, remember that other models do have cons as well, such as generally having extra content to sell requires someone in charge of making it in first place.

In the end subs alone doesn't cut it that much, nor does going for advertisement-only or all these weird deals and possibilities that have been tried in QL, all which failed (if you don't earn money with a project it means it failed. Being able to run it is not enough for a company, especially when every year they discuss of shutting it down due to costs). We have to always remind ourselves that QL is an experiment, which is why there aren't enough funds for development, why nothing sane has been tried out so far and why we shouldn't rely on QL in the mid-long run (also probably is training for syncerror so he gets to lead a big project)

Well that's a possibility, of course, but I doubt it will ever be taken. The biggest reason would be that there's already Q3 for that. This model would kill what makes QL what it is. With a single payment system there wouldn't be id hosted servers. Without id hosted servers you need player hosted servers. You can't trust player hosted servers so the whole centralized stats thing becomes meaningless (it's important for most, like it or not). What's left? Basically a big Q3 mod with a friends list system. I doubt enough people would be willing to pay for that.

Coloured outline you say...they probably would work very well, but did you pinch that from Borderland's cartoon style, or... ?

I got the idea from csgo spec mode. Where the models are outlined blue or orange

Fair enough, hadn't seen them, just struck me for a sec as the only thing I'd seen using that was those videos. :)

I don't really have all that much experience with modern gaming outside of Quake Live.
But I think developers are thinking more in terms of "Enhancing the experience of paying players" rather than "Limiting the experience of non-paying ones".
This is one area where QL went wrong, but I think they were very limited in terms of how much they could profit from standard players. Pretty sure the original idea was that the ad revenue generated by the bulk of non-subscribing players ( the bulk of players ) would pay for the resources they took, and the game would be profitable allround with subscriptions. Having their advertiser fold post GFC obviously held QL back, with their revenue model being a complete failure.
I somewhat agree with the idea that gameplay should remain more or less identical between the two, but all those minor things that allow players to embellish and personalize their game should be restricted to paying players. That's what got me to pay in the first place all those years back. I wanted to create a clan! hehe.

No. They need to focus on Doom 4 deathmatch. I think quakelive has had it's time in the spotlight. don't see the point in keeping at alive at this point.

The tiny team on QL is entirely separate from the big team on DOOM.

Since most people just look at peoples feet when aiming in quake...

Add shoes

genius!

haha, more PG will occur!

Homer Simpson model from Quake2, Take my money please.....

Shoes, models and weapon skins, etc would work. A lot of casual players don't forcemodel, and you'd probably be able to display them on your ql page anyway.

A lot of casual players don't forcemodel

Probably not that many since it was the default option for a very long time.

They changed it back recently.

maybe its a sign