Nice, I have the WMO and the G400s.

I dont know much about mice and the technology behind them but its good to see they are apparently good.

I love the G400s with a fingertip grip

I'm also fingergrip user but I prefer lighter mouse. I had DA, switched to WMO and than DA was too heavy.

Now im fine with g100s.

It is pretty hefty but when I switch to the wmo it feels stupidly light after using the g400s.

Ideally I'd like the WMO to have 2 thumb buttons or a mouse that is a similar shape, has a good sensor and has thumb buttons.

you forgot to mention if WMO had 500hz polling rate for default ... :)

btw Is there any solution to change it in Win7 64? Sorry - all solutions I found excluded win7 64 bit system :( ... playing with 125hz is horrible

gogle -> wmo 500 hz oveclock

pretty easy. But i guess its impossible with Win 8.

it isn't so easy - almost all of the threads exclude win7 64 - except this one
http://www.overclock.net/t/596276/changing-us...z-or-lower

- I'll try it when back home

Did it many times so its easy for me ;)

aaaaa!! It works now! :D
...I had to plug the mouse in wrong usb port - it works only with usb 2.0 - not 3.0!
yes yes yes! :D

Do neither of the responses in this thread work?

http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&id=1956126

I've been playing at 125 because I'm a big ol scrub

125hz doesn't mean you can't aim at all - I have above 30% acc - but it could be better with 500hz :)

If theres a windows 8 fix for it I'll try it out. I have stopped using the wmo so much recently

How is the size of the g100s affecting your hand? You don't feel at all uncomfortable or cramp-ish? I feel wmo is perfect size, but I love light mice.

http://shootersmania.blogspot.com/2014/04/log...ml?q=g100s

Why have you reported the max tracking speed of Abyssus '14 at 4.15m/s, when all technical reports so far are reporting 0.98, or with special treatment, only as high as 2.54?

Also, are you sure that ec2 weighs more than ec1? It seems like it should be the other war around, seeing as ec2 is smaller.

You could also give comments on native acceleration or deceleration in the comments box.

seems that we got a whiner here.

thats why I said it is not 100% correct and asked for help to improve it?

EC1 is bigger one, EC2 is smaller one. Now i fixed it.
no, im not sure that Abyssus max speed is 4 but it got similiar sensor to DA.
But 0,98 max speed is pure bullshit.

Give me an info about accel so I can add it, currently I doesn't have any info about it.

Could maybe add native dpi but also it will be hard to find it.

I was trying to help but you got defensive, not my problem. Your work is great and much appreciated.


'But 0,98 max speed is pure bullshit.' - Not according to most technical reports so far, time will tell.


Peace.

Ok, thanks. Check my edit. Already fixed EC1/2 thing., bad copy&pasta.

I can't really find some proper Abyssus test of vmax.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1442124/lightbox/p...id/1745747
http://www.overclock.net/t/1442124/razer-abyssus-1800dpi
http://www.overclock.net/t/1497809/new-razer-...e-this/180

so, 4 m/s + seems to be ok.

But those aren't for 2014 version. :)

http://cdn.overclock.net/d/d5/d53d5d44_MouseTesterAbyssus2014.png

but 2014 has the same sensor? :|

Yeh it's crazy. Probably a firmware update is gonna fix it, but I'm holding out for now.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1497809/new-razer-...ce-this/90

lol, its weird as fuck :D

as you said, new firmware probably will fix it.

There is also the Abyssus 1800 ( from the cyclosa bundle)

so there are 3 different abyssus mice?

This one use the s3668. Firmware is flashable (v1.01). But lastest seems to be 1.03. Remember setting without drivers (when use with the stand alone driver not synapse). Not the same plastic/coat use on the 3.5g (I like it more). And Sensor feels the same as using a deathadder 3g. I use 800dpi/1000hz no driver. Enotus is about 3.8m/s

You have to remove Salmosa from the list I'm afraid, because it has prediction. Not that I give a fuck, it's awesome mouse, but I hink the mouse nerds will call you out on this.

edit: Ah, the "risk of prediction" is mentioned. But how is it not a risk, there aren't versions without prediction?

how it is possible when it got same sensor as DA 3G?

seems that it could have some firmware fault maybe?
But imo it should be fixed now?

added info bout possible prediction, ty

I haven't heard of it being "fixed" and it even might have been marketed as an actual feature. Don't count on that being a fact though. But anyway, the prediction on the mouse is so obvious, that I can't really see it as an accidental fault. But then again it's Razer, who aren't known for their excellent field record on Quality Control.

No drift control firmware

DA 3G had prediction for most of the time too, until they released the first NDC(no drift control) firmware.

decided to delete it ;p

If you're going to add native DPI steps as far as I can remember it's 1800 for Razer DeathAdder 3, 3.5G, 2300 for Zowie EC1/EC2 eVo, FK, AM.

thanks very much, jsut added ;d

damn i love my rivals max speed, never gonna hit that in my life

you will do that in next life as cyborg/android ;)

hahaha yeah id definitely need a bionic arm

There's a bit of listed information that might contradict what happens for end users in different situations.

Tracking speed measurements and lift off distance are two examples of estimates that can show moderate variance between surfaces or even hardware itself when it comes to illumination source. This was the primary reason, I had removed these values from the original list posted on overclock.net.

Native CPI values on a few listed mice are off or incomplete.

DA 3.5G 1800/3500
DA 4G Sensor capable in small increments up to 6400
Abyssus 3.5G 1800/3500
Krait 4G Same as DA4G

G400 800 and 3600; Other default values drop half counts.
G400S 800 and 4000; Other default values drop half counts.
G100s 250 - 2500 in 250 step increments.
G502 All native registries

Kone pure Optical 400-4000, all native
Savu 800, 1600 and 4000

Mice I cannot 100% confirm.

Abyssus 4G Synapse should use 3500 registry and scale. Default without driver may use 1800 registry.
Rival should be 50-5000 and interpolated above that.
Kana v2 Max native CPI is 4000, but I don't own the mouse to confirm certain lower steps.

Avago 3310 does not exist. 3310 is a Pixart released unit. Marketing.

Thanks very much, I will fix these informations ;)

but for eg. g100s really sux above 1000 dpi

I thought Pixart bought Avago recntly

kana v2 is 800/1600

Yeah, but that doesn't stop the mouse from having native registries in 250 steps :P I personally think 2500 DPI tracking is fine, not much worse than other mice.

Avago sold their sensor division to Pixart Imaging awhile back. The core group that developed sensors at Avago moved over.

Kana V2 may have 400-800-1200-1600-2000 etc native registries, but i'm not exactly sure :)

g100s above 1000 dpi has jitter and lower max speed.
kana v2 are best 800 and 1600 too, also higher dpi lower max speed
DA 3G is best at 1800 dpi

tried them all and these are all default dpi.

I wanted to post best/default/native dpi, when the mouse got the best performance ;) not just default dpi steps ;)

my tests ;)
http://shootersmania.blogspot.com/2014/04/log...tml?q=kana
http://shootersmania.blogspot.com/2014/02/ste...tml?q=kana

Your column says native DPI... not tested favorite/default value.

It's quite misleading or there is a lack of understanding in regards to what native sensor resolution means.

Sensors like 3060/3080/3090 derive from an older architecture with limited DSP scaling. Limited resolution was previously combated by having a mcu interpolate or drop counts. In comparison to real CPI, the alternative values would feel off or show other irregularities such as speed loss at lower value (DA) .. hence the whole "native" hype.

3090 later got updated to a point where it could switch between sets of registries and the above was no longer a critical issue.

A "native" resolution is inherit to the sensors DSP processor, but depending on how a sensor is designed, this can be redefined in another fashion such as image size vs default scale.

The problem with the 2nd variation is that there are external variables that effect such resolution. Pixel Array does not equate to DPI value and so forth.

Maybe, I'm being to critical, but I just don't like seeing incorrect information being presented. :P

hmm you are right there... but shall I call it "best dpi" than? :P

ty for info.

you are making this list even more subjective if you only go for the values you prefer

not subjective.
i want to put dpi when mouse got best performance.

For DA 3G 1800 dpi is just best dpi because its a value when it got best performance, max speed, not interpolated etc..

Same for g100s, 1000 dpi is simply the best for this mouse.

its not preference.

Unless you prefer worse performance! :D

Maybe make two columns: native dpi, and best dpi. If you know _real_ native dpi, put it there. If you don't know it, you can still put the best dpi value.

Its whatever you want to do.

I will say that I'm not exactly fond of how information is presented. Still a bit misleading and gives false bias of hardware, etc..

Like h8m3 stated, you're adding quite a bit of personal opinion when you only change what you feel should be listed.

ex: G502 has a completely different sensor architecture design than 3310 based models.. yet.. if someone were to read this they would assume it had similar tracking characteristics based on the "best dpi" rating you gave it.

I'm not going to discredit the work you've done, but certain variable ratings just don't work unless you're willing to also list surface.. wear.. etc....firmware.. Better left removed.

I know that people like that type of information.. and hell I added stuff like that back in 2010.. but I also went further and understood the hardware past what was accepted at the time.

You can still look at sujoy's mousescore 2007 as sort of a reference for older mice tested at maximum resolution, but I'll make point to state that his ratings don't reflect the full capability of a mouse and or sensor model.

Edit: With that said, I'm also not a fan of the "flawless sensor" malarkey.

Just a lack of understanding of how design influences certain characteristics.

You can get close to what i'll coin as high variable accuracy, but the sensor operation basics are the same.

Scientifically a lot of these "flawless" mice share similar issues to mice that are considered bad. It's just their design variance is a lot smaller.

I don't really understand why some different sensors could be considered as the same. like 3310 and G502. For me 'best dpi' doesnt mean this.

for most people its probably more than enough of informations ;) also these mice listed will be good enough.

But I already started to add some informations about surface.

also I dont really bother for sensor, im g100s user which is clearly not the best but comfortable mouse.

I have read loads of your posts here & on oc.net and have bought mice based on your opinion, thanks.
That smoothing trend was getting out of hand.
reading users say that "mouse with sensor x was the best raw snappy blah blah", one day then when someone found a supposed flaw with it they all changed to, "yeah I knew it was off, mouse with sensor y is now da shit" then doing it again, type of comments, proving that they were talking shit.
nearly put me off buying one of them.

plussed OP for effort plussed skylit for reality check.

Wow, great work that sheet is awesome.


Also I have a WMO and Im on win 7 64 bit...I had no trouble getting mine to 500hz.

try disabling xHCI in your bios and that should do the trick.

oh wow you just introduced wmo back into my life. me and my sweet old friend salute you

The DA 4G LoD can be lowered with Synapse to about the same as the Zowie mice, and I haven't heard of that affecting performance? So it's not entirely accurate to say it has a 3-4 CD LoD.

Thanks! didn't know about it.

here is excel file for download:
http://www.speedyshare.com/jjpMd/Mice-using-f...der-2.xlsx

btw. I can't to make it to download directly from google drive? :/

Starcraft 2 Pro Gear added

I thought the g400s has horrible smoothing compared to the g400, no?

Smoothing isn't a big deal if it is done right. The problem is usually it is messed up and causes a delay in mouse movement. To me there wasn't really any delay with the g400s that is why it is accepted as a good mouse even though it has smoothing. IMO.

and what is the difference with the g400?

G400 v1 has prediction. It's possible to buy it by mistake.

G400 rev 2. and G400s doesn't have it.
g400s has different shell. Maybe cable?

Why not count weight after removal internal one?

Why not count weight with cord?
...

I wanted based weight, not everybody remove weight btw.

Why not count weight with cord?

Because cord weight doesn't really matter on weight while gaming.
Some people wanna lower weight of mouse before buying it. By your spreadsheet seems like Razer Abyssus has lowest weigh but Logitech G100S weights less with easily removed weight.

You know that most people dont care about removable weight?

you can remove weight from g100s but you void warranty by doing this (even that I dont know how somebody could check it)

g100s without weight is a bit too light btw. even wind can move it...

based weight is better, I can add info about removable weight only in comment.

I can add info about removable weight only in comment.

Don't do it. Let people google each mouse themselves does that mouse have removable weight (not advertised) or not.

Yes, please include in comments the available weight of mice upon weight removal. I was much happier with the weight of my g100s once I'd removed it, and I thought the weight distribution especially was horrid before I did.

I hear also that abyssus 14 has an 8g removable weight.

thats why im publishing it to know such things ;)

added some more info this morning

if they fix new Abyssus firmware to get better max speed it will be very cool mouse.

Someone said on oc.net that the mouse is built in a fashion so that it can't be updated. This at the moment for me, is pure speculation however, we will see.

Yes if they manage to fix this problem, it could be a competitor with g100s by my preferences for best modern mouse.

thats why im publishing it to know such things ;)

"I wanted based weight, not everybody remove weight btw."

?
I put it in comment the same as for g100s, you can see it right now.

I wanted to put based weight without cord without user ingerences. Removable weight is not official info.

So now you can see that:
g100s based weight is 82g, in comment "you can remove 12g"
Abyssus 14 based weight 80g, in comment "you can remove 8g"

http://esreality.com/post/2610019/new-razer-abyssus/#pid2616636

thanks
http://www.overclock.net/t/1497809/new-razer-...e-this/290

updated ;)

started adding in comments some source to test/review to prove some values.

unfortunately sometimes they are in polish language, but I think most important things can be understand for everybody.

you should do one for 120/144hz monitors for input lag / response time / picture quality / resolution etc

i really know nothing about monitors and don't really care about it and I have 60 Hz ;)

(off topic but need to rant now )
That just reminded me of the money I have wasted on monitors.
purchased them based off bullshit biased reviews that have all turned out to have serious problems.
lived off beans on toast for a while to pay
Ł899 ,in 2003, for a Sony gdm f520, total pile of shit ghosting intermittently then tube went blue on year 3. then bought 2 lcds for Ł800 based off of a review on anandtech.com that turned out to have cunting banding issues.
nearly bought a lightboost monitor then I read how shit that actually is, crt replacement my arse, fuck you blur bussters you nearly got me again;)

moral of the story, don't always believe reviews on the internet they may be
biased because they wasted their own money (fanboy or dumb) or were given the product to test AND KEEP. (corruption)

for shooting pixels I will stick with my 'going to a skip' iiyama crt that is nearly perfect and was free.


man in white coat, put my special jacket back on, the flash backs have.......................................X-(

Actually those lightboost monitors are pretty good, when you keep lightboost turned off.

Still prefer crt though.

Very nice work!
Now I just need to know which mouse is almost identical to WMO in size and weight and shape.

None :P
kinzuadder and wmoadder hehe

some people tried:
zowie fk
g100s
kana v2

still all are different.

maybe Abyssus 2014, but seems that it has some 'problems'

ok I rephrase. which zowie is closest? I always thought EC1 but the numbers are different and sometimes its AM and FK and now I don't know what to get. because i really like the rubber coating.

maybe the upcoming FK1, which will be bigger than the usual FK.

yeah from the sheet in OP it certainly seems very similar. let's hope shape will be ok

Abyssus 2014 requires a firmware update (u need to get in contact with Razer support for it).

Once applied tracking suddenly goes from 1.25 m/s to beyond 4 m/s. Our bitching and complaining worked this time :D

Synapse still ruins tracking imo, dpi recalculation causes weird movement when trying to perform smaller movements so you're pretty much stuck at 1800 dpi, driverless, which is OK imo if you're using rawinput in games which give you enough control over your sensitivity.

Zowie FK1 is alot better imo then the previous Zowie's. You can also adjust the LOD a bit if needed (using the highest setting atm).

The so called "smoothing" on 3310 vs 3090 feels more manageable (comparing alot of models, Roccat, SS Kana v2, Mionix Avior 7000..).

It's like you're not really losing precision on the 3310 mice, whereas with the 3090 mice that have it, it's a bit harder to for instance select a specific pixel on the desktop.

FK1 also goes over 4 m/s (even 5 m/s in some cases).

Currently using Zowie FK1 as my main mouse and keeping my Kana v2/Abyssus 2014 as backups. Avior 7000 is also pretty neat, but you have to like the shape, it was a little to bulky for my tastes.

Zowie am.

Nope, fk is closer if anything.

AM has /__\ shape.

FK is as small as kinzu, AM is much wmo-like, just not as wide

Yeah, I still wouldn't compare the AM to the WMO.

'almost'

FK1 yeh.

lololollololollololollololollololollololollololollololollololollololollololollololollololollololollololollololol
lololollololollololollololollololollololollololollololol

Worst Zowie mouse ever. I've got one, used it 2/3 times.

Never used one. Just prefer the look of it and the shape of the top. I wouldn't be able to get on with the /_\ shape that Rauvz mentioned.

OP if your getting this info from different user reviews on oc.net or manufactures quoted specs then
I would say loads of the results are wrong or out of date, making that chart a misleading document, unless you have tested all those mice yourself ?

would be nice to have a comprehensive accurate list for all gaming mice but to make that list you need one unbiased trusted person to do all the tests on lots of surfaces and be updated when new firmwares are released.

actually kana v2 i tested myself this year.
high LoD on black QcK and Goliathus.

make a video, prove it. Now it's just 'your oppinion' for me.

I'm not going to test all by myself.

LoD is not just 'firmware' thing.
LoD, max speed can be measured + surface information is correct.
For me there is low or high LoD, also you can use tape fix...

I belive that 3 m/s max speed is more than enough.
If somebody buy mouse just because of max speed than such person is dumb.

make your own document.
As I said there not everything is correct.

all of these mice are pretty awesome, lol...

sorry.... edited my post didn't expect such a speedy reply.
realised that what I said about LoD was wrong
and didn't want to sound like I was pissing on your parade/chart, so removed the turds, but you had replied within a few mins.
good job mate plussed you.
totally forgot I did tape trick duh.
can you minus me pls.

Also I didn't expect such fast reply, edited my post too.

I think that it should be pretty obvious to don't trust everything in internet, also my Spreadsheet. I'm just _trying_ to do it the best.

Still some informations need adjustment etc.
These 'comments' are based user 'feelings' that could be not correct.

hmm... you can see that triangles on cells? right.
there are comments too, also source of information.

How would one test them? Like sujoy did in 2007?

That was the best mouse test / review on the net IMO. (would be good to have an update with new mice)

The machines & software that razer, pixart and logitech use to test mice sensors would do.?
Skylit or Sujoy could answer this much better than me.

I agree, it was the best. In fact it was probably the only, outside that japanese site that was not regulalry updated and only had a small portion of mice on it.

I guess my question is better rephrased to "is a test like that still relevant". Would people want it? Would it still be useful?

Not hating on anyone, these are genuine questions because if there was demand someone should try to do it..

edit: the hardware and software is not a huge hurdle for this and consulting sujoy or others wtih similar setups is not required. At least imo. Getting counts from DX is fairly straight forward.

What and how would you test? Would you test each mouse at different DPIs on different pads? Would you test different DPIs at 500/1000hz or just stick with one?

Someone mentioned worn pads - is this interesting to people? If someone was to conduct this should they "wear" a pad and give comparison data for a QCK Heavy / QCH Heavy (worn).

Would you give results for different firmware versions? Would you do tests for older firmware or just start at the current and then retest after updates?

So many variables, it sounds like a huge job.

you make some good points.
it would be quite expensive just to obtain all the mice then to test them all, for all of the hidden features or flaws like angle snap, acceleration, max tracking speed, jitters, circular drifting, and all the other features or bugs that mousers want to know about these days would be a huge undertaking.

to do this scientificily would require machines aswell because a biased stoner swiping his mouse around doesn't cut it any more.
eg: someone swears that avago and pixart 3xxx sensors have slight hardware acceleration, some swear it doesn't and is "flawless"
leaving someone who has invested time to find out about a mouse or sensor , even more confused.
and ultimately buying a product that later on everyone agrees is shit.

pad wear is not worth worrying about though.
users would buy both new and only care for that scenario. Imo

See which one gives highest lg percentage obviously

First let me apologize. I don't mean to come off as harsh, just an observation.

I have some issues with the perfect sensor list.

All the Microsoft mice on that list have low perfect control due to the low bit interface those mice use, I believe it's 6 bit. This means even when overclocked they will reach data saturation quickly. The result is low perfect control, and bad negative acceleration.

As a result I can easily make my IME 3.0 skip with quick flick shots!

Secondly the Microsoft mice, are not easily overclocked on Windows 8 or 8.1 due to their usb 1.0 interface. So a bad choice for those users.

They are not perfect, just familiar to most players. In this case muscle memory is more important than sensor used.

And one could argue that the ADNS-3090 sensor is not perfect ether. I have 1 mouse with that sensor a CM Spawn, and the sensor is far from perfect with high lift off and at 800 CPI feels more like 1000 CPI when compared with other mice I own.

I think the OP did a great job with his list, the mice on it are certainly all great mice, and I feel we need more articles like his!

Another Sujoy's type test would be nice, maybe with different surfaces so we could get and idea which surface works best with which mouse sensors. This would negate any speculation/opinions, like mine.

I appreciate all your hard work OP, keep it up.

I think I need to clarify some things

1. This list is mostly for myself, when it started to be bigger and bigger I thought I can share it and some people could use it. Im not a pro but I think more than average in 'mice field''

2. low perfect control speed is nothing bad until you hit the negative accel. I'm not very low sensitivity user and WMO is fine and perfect for ME.

3. High LoD is nothing bad too, its a preference, I know people who dislike low LoD... still you can use a tape fix for it.

4. I will add more info about Microsoft mice, thanks.

5. CM Spawn LoD seems too be fixed since 31 firmware, I found a test for it. I tested kana v2, and imo it was perfect mouse and it got high LoD.

6. A3090 mostly has pretty high LoD as default, i think.

7. I added quite a lot of info about surfaces and values reached on them

8. If there is a pro who can do better list. Please, do. I will be happy if somebody will continue this work.

9. I hope people are not so dumb and can use google to check mouse which they are interested in.

10. I belive most people will be happy with any mouse from the list. Most people dont really have a lot of knowledge about mice ;)

Just like to Say from testing I did with a kana v2 avago 3090, I found that on hard pads the reported dpi on plastic everglide, custom glass pad and wood dropped to around 700 - 730 dpi while on cloth matts ,all black & all white it was 820 - 835 dpi on the 800dpi setting.
finding this helped me get a sensitivity that felt good to me.
anyone else noticed this ?

any information on the kinzu v2 these days? which sensor does it use? i think its sensor doesn't have any accel or prediction (not 100% sure though, and i assume the bugs have been ironed out by now)

Pixart PAW3305SDK
Seems to be better than v1, but still not really good.
Could be good for kinzu users ;p

http://www.overclock.net/t/1187517/steelserie...ro-testing
http://www.overclock.net/t/1378313/steelserie...s-horrible
http://www.esreality.com/post/2200424/kana-ki...ro-thread/
http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/steelser...iew,7.html


I heard rumors about new kinzu...

hmm, in that case, I think I may just have to pick one up and see for myself! (mainly for the shape and size of it)

Do you happen to have a source for this rumour? man, i really hope they get it perfected this time around... in that case i may just wait for it to be released! (if the rumour source is reliable and its not too far off of course :p)

nothing much...
"just wait for the new kinzu line to appear at the horizon soon"
could be even ironic :P

http://www.overclock.net/t/1497809/new-razer-...e-this/180

I heard rumors about zowie wmo too :P

You think zowie will make a wmo equivalent?

dunno, just rumors.

at least they are cooperating with cooller about it?

kinzu v2 has a very low malfunction speed, so with a fast swipe it "freaks" out.

Come to think about it, information on switch types would make this list even more awesome.

switch types? like OMRON and stuff?

or you mean grip styles?
http://www.razerzone.com/mouseguide/ergonomic/advantage

imo too much subjective.
polish website but they got smth like this:
http://www.test-gear.pl/testy-i-recenzje/mysz...ne_myszki/


also heard that I should add info about 'button lag"...

Switch types: omron; huano; etc.

yes/no? It's important to a lot of users. I'll try to help you gather the info (incl. sources) if you want to include this data.

I can, but I dont really know where to search for the info ;)

I assume there is a reason R.A.T. 3 (ADNS-3090) isn't on the list? What would it be, firmware?

its on the 'additional list'

because i got too litlle knowledge about it ;p yet

i'll never get used to the way spreadsheets have the tabs on the bottom damn it

My GF's got a R.A.T. 3 with taped sensor and I can tell you it works great :) No acceleration, no jitter. I don't know about max tracking speed, but in my experience it's as good as my FK and EC2 eVo.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1500615/zowie-fk1-...iew-by-ino
FK1 test

updated ;p

You report 2300 as best dpi for the FK1 but i understand that the native steps of the FK1 are different from the other zowie mices. I think it should be either 1600 or 1800.

erm... sorry. bad copy &pasta

thanks

Zowie FK2 ?
http://www.overclock.net/t/1498435/the-3310-comes-to-zowie/300

"I did a quick Google search for Zowie FK2 and a link to their Malaysian Facebook page came up. When asked whether there is going to be a smaller FK2 the rep not-so-cryptically replies "perhaps, Zowie is always full of surprises"."

iirc TT Saphira has prediction
a little later they released firmware to remove prediction

proof...

i read quite a lot about it and didnt heard about prediction.

Are you sure it got removed?

Have you tested out the CM Storm Recon in terms of grip/fit?
It has a decent sensor as far as I know. The shell design looks comfortable. But I have not held it in my hand.

never tested any CM mouse.

Recn seems to be quite heavy, 110g?

Damn. Didn't realize before you mentioned it. Yeah it is really heavy. Well that was a buzzkill :D

kana v2 has smoothing same as g400s but theres no note
there are ways to overclock mice in windows 8 by using regedit
zowie fk runs best on 477 dpi with 500hz, but 1190/2390 dpi with 1000hz

every mouse got some kind of smoothing...

kana v2 and g400s have ridiculous amounts of smoothing that you have to fight against to be able to aim properly

g100s has a bearable amount of smoothing

Zowie-fk at 2390 dpi, WMO 1.1a, and deathadder 3.5g have unnoticeable amounts of smoothing

than any A3090 has it? I got kana v2 and didn't notice anything.
so G400 has smoothing too?

Did you tried them? source?

I think maybe this person has just heard about the angle snapping in the original issue of the g400 series and then run wild from there. Never heard of kana v2 having smoothing either.

any 3090?

zowie-fk uses a 3090, but not with a 4000dpi SROM, it has a max of 2400 dpi so it doesn't have the same problem with smoothing/lag that 3090 mice using 4000dpi roms do

high dpi has always smoothing...

800/1600 dpi with kana v2 is ok.

g400 v1 has prediction but not g400 v2 or g400s...

high dpi has always smoothing...

Not a rule set in stone.
I suspect that the "jitter-free" abyssus jitter is just the effect of extremely low amount of smoothing because it was very consistent.

Deathadder is still the best at 1800 dpi

also there is nothing really better to have dpi over 9000 so what's the matter? with high dpi is even harder to setup the sens...

yes, kana v2 sucks at 4000 dpi but who cares when you can use lower one.

I was implying that even though the abyssus went up to 3500dpi it still had no smoothing.
Infact people still considered it jittery at 3500dpi even after it was fixed but I think it's more to do with the lack of smoothing and your hands natural vibrations which amplify as you move as those "jitters" were quite consistent if you kept your hand steady and used a very consistent surface.

EDIT: also high dpi is becoming more and more relevant as monitor resolutions increase these days I would probably want 2000dpi on a 4k monitor, which would imply that someone using 2000dpi on a 1920x1080 monitor would want 4000dpi on a 4k monitor.

I daubt that abyssus at higher dpi has lower max speed.

Where did I mention max speed?

nowhere.

imo discussion is pointless because there is no reason to use very high dpi.

mice mostly are good on few dpi values from min 400 to 2300 max.

Not with the newer sensors, some people report lower dpis working better on 3310s but that shouldn't be the case on paper.

Also if you want to play metro with it's RSUYTBAUYHSTBRASNTBK 45 fov on 3 monitors with 20cm/360 you need 5340cpi, not that it matters it's a single player game, but there are people with these triple monitor setups and people are getting even higher resolutions on their single monitors and anyone who wants to play on them and knows what decent mouse settings are will have to find a mouse that can utilise high dpis without any drawbacks.

and how to setup 12000 dpi mouse?

-0,56 sens? :D

Sadly, game devs are a bit incompetent.

But yeah, that's the idea, we SHOULD need higher dpi values in the future, you could argue that they're quite future proof at the moment with 5000dpi native and 12000dpi native mice on the market but we'll be past the 5000dpi threshold with then standardisation of 4K monitors and people who want to play high sens in those crazy next gen games with low FOV.

still cypher will destroy me even with a ball mouse hehe

for not there is no mouse for me with high dpi and good shape/weight

G502 can be awesome but uncomfortable for me ;p

Yeah, just pointing out that there is use for them, now if the g502 was wide and weighed 95-105g I'd still use it.

zowie use a custom lense, so how do you know it isn't the same 3090 Rom ?

it actually has a 1800DPI SROM(magnified to 2300DPI via custom lense).

STMicroelectronics OS MLT 04

is microsoft the only one that used this sensor?

It appears so. It may be an exclusive design for MS. Can't find a data sheet for it like other sensors.

H1ghlander, what is your thoughts on the Xornet vs Spawn from CM Storm?

xornet is A3050 sensor with little prediction
Spawn seems to be ok

BUT i really heard bad things about firmware and software conflicts. Im not sure that new firmware is ok with this mouse. Heard that some added jitter or prediction...

its possible that CM screwed it.

Better to ask on Overclock about how it is _recently_.

Alright. Thanks

Microsoft Blue Optical Mouse (MLT 04)

H1ghlander
I have a mico now. (my old wmo is dead)
Would you buy a g100s now or wait for a better/flawless wmo-like mouse to be released if you were me? :D

bst mouse \o/

You are from Norway, not like us filthy peasants from Poland, so I think you should buy ;) g100s is quite cheap.

srsly, I dont know. g100s sensor is pretty good itself and imo got wmo spirit.

I think new Abyssus or FK1 could be worth trying. Also imo there will be FK2 quite soon.

What will the FK2 be like?

there are only rumors about FK2

probably FK1 bigger and FK2 smaller one.

I've got the Kana v2, currently trying it out on 400 dpi at 1280x1024@5:4. Is there a reason why it works best at 800-1600 dpi? should i not use 400 dpi at all on it? And what hz do u suggest?

+ i got another stupid question...what actually is mouse smoothing ? i just dont get it, lol :/.

MLT 04 dpi is not constant (400, ~430, 450).

lolz i made mega bullshit test ;d
duel vs hossman bot on aerowalk to check accuracy lulz, very subjective

wmo
43% lg
54% rail

g100s
36% lg
51% rail

deathadder
37% lg
44% rail

I did it coz i think smth is wrong with my g100s ;p
but i need to say i didnt play much with wmo recently, also im shit player :D but i think i got different accel values on evey mouse.

elaborate please. i just bought a g100s because i'm tired of my da 3.5g.

i need to say, i did many things to my g100s . ;p
removed weight, removed stock mouse feet and put wmo ones which dont fit to it. Put lead custom weight inside, removed it again, put the original weight again etc etc. Also moved something inside near sensor...

I could fuck it up by my "upgrades" but im not sure.
But for many people it still awesome, or it is still ok, im not sure.

also cord is so annoying...
some people said that some pieces of g100s could be a bit 'broken', rumors.

this test is nothing, did it once, could be just luck.

i can say with 100% sure g100s is better than kana.

bette than kana v1, vs kana v2, it depends ;p

I dont want to start another thread about the same question, so I'm gonna leave it here. Yeah I know that this question has already been repeatedly asked, not only here but on the other places as well, but I have to ask about it :)
I'm looking for good WMO replacement in terms of sensor pereformance and lightweight. Do you think that g100s will be a good choice? The price is really affordable. I know that ZOWIE FK1 is also a good choice, but personally I don't see the point in spending that much on the mouse if the difference between ZOWIE and g100s wouldn't be that noticeable.

g100s is worth trying, its a bit wmoish, but its not wmo.
I would like to try Abyssus 2014, same weigtht, shape seems to be cool, but it got some firmware problems.

About FK1 somebody send me a PM about it, and its quite interesting, sorry for polish language, too lazdy to translate:

"Powiem Ci , że od ponad dwóch tygodni gram na tym nowym zowie fk1 i ten sensor nie jest dla mnie idealny. Już tłumaczę - mam również myszkę ec1 evo cl, z tym ze huanos sa zepsute. Ale niestety sensor sam w sobie bardziej mi odpowiada. Taki płynny bardziej, ja gram w grę opartą na silniku quake`a i ważny jest tracking... A fk1 jest super precyzyjną myszą, tzn jest tak ostra, ze moje ruchy juz nie sa takie płynne, tylko bardziej od punktu do punktu. Ciężej mi się na niej gra.

W ciągu grania przez ten czas na fk1, parę razy wróciłem na chwile do ec1 i różnica zauważalna bardzo, przynajmniej dla mnie. W przypadku fk1 gra bardzo męcząca, zaś na avago 3090 miód malina... Jedynie za duża jest ta myszka ec1 i profilowana, z tym mialem problemy.

Musze stwierdzic, ze ten nowy sensor jest bardziej robiony pod graczy cs-a, gdzie bardziej liczy sie pojedynczy strzal, a nie precyzyjny, gładki tracking.
"

Thanks.
What do you think about Kana v2? Is this mouse more WMO-like than g100s?

I already tried kana v2 and sold it already... hmm too heavy, the back of the mouse is heavy, im fingergrip and it was uncomfortable. Also very high lod is annoying, u need tape trick, and side buttons... also not really comfortable. Also with this weight -> low profile, didn;'t like it.


my reviews:
g100s
http://shootersmania.blogspot.com/2014/04/log...ml?q=g100s

kana v2
http://shootersmania.blogspot.com/2014/02/ste...?q=kana+v2

disadventages of g100s:
- shit stock mouse feet
- shit cord, really annoying, it can easy move your mouse.
- u need to know u need to use 1000 dpi (quite easy to calculate)

can i make the dpi button on the g100s act as a back button? how smooth is the g100s compared to wmo? and why are the mouse feet bad?

mouse feet are very thin and seems to be made of plastic, much better to change it. I use hyperglides from wmo which doesnt fit, imo not very good choice...

how smooth? hard to say... but good.,

never tried to rebind dpi button, i need to check it ;]

with the driver, which some people are paranoid to use, but they're fine.

On my setup cord is no problem. Never fucked me over <3

imba housemade mouse bungee?

Ghetto represent

I think you are working as graphics designer, such skill, much impressive :D

I forgot to add that this hook is from pack of socks to prevent cable to easly go through!
But I guess it's not a problem because I recreated the visuals perfectly.
I can give lessons (easly 2000 paintELO) if someone will tell me how to get to 1300 ELO!

how does the kana LOD compare to the g400s LOD? I dont know much about LOD or have anything to compare with but if its similar to the g400s then I might grab a Kana v2 sometime (I like heavier mice).

never tried g400s

but g100s lod is very low compared to kana v2.
kana v2 has much higher lod than wmo.
It's about 3-4CD.

kana v2 is quite light, but feeling of the weight is much on its back.

There should be a comment on the Saphira mentioning that the sensor is at the front of the mouse rather than the middle of the mouse. I'm not sure of any immediate side effects of it, but I know the left-sided sensor on the g9x resulted in diagonal movement if you pivoted the mouse horizontally at all.

Where did you read the rumors of the Zowie's performing best on 500hz?

overclock

also quite normal that 1000 hz is not stable in many mice.

Weird. I've never had a problem with Zowie on 1000hz. Been trying some benchmark prog's as well.
In my experience 1000hz is only been unstable on older generation mice like the wmo and stuff.

At 2300cpi, zowie fk14 caps at 128 counts per poll at 1000Hz, compared to 512 at 500Hz.
You get double the max speed using 500Hz compared to 1000Hz. If you dont need more than 1.5m/s, feel free to use 1000Hz.

edit: some quick mousemovementrecorder tests to demonstrate
http://drok-radnik.com/junk/fk2014_500hz.jpg
http://drok-radnik.com/junk/fk2014_1khzcap.jpg

Interesting, thanks for the update.

intradasting. could it be a firmware issue for the fk14 alone?

since my ec1 evo cl works fine on 1000hz...

Nope, same technology. Tried it out with my ec1 evo, and caps at 128 counts. I don't need more though.

I was going to make my own thread but decided to see if this bumps after i post.

got a Steelseries WMO from Takasta on ebay, it feels perfectly fine 400 dpi @ 7 sensitivity in Quake 3, but noticed in other games its very very very jittery at times, more noted on high sensitivity, but i was doing CSGO 400 dpi @ 6 sensitivity and it is near unplayable.

Dodge sensor or are these mice not great for high sense players (15cm/360)

I will play some Quake Live and other games later to confirm my findings, if anyone has some known knowledge on the matter i would appreciate it.

I used WMO and g100s and in Quake its good. But I don't really like it in csgo.

Hey guys,

So I'm about to buy a new mouse, and I know next to nothing about new models. Here's some information on my needs:

1. I have a palm grip.
2. I'll use it for Quake etc., so I need a good gaming mouse.
3. I need at least 5 buttons on it.
4. Ideally, it'd be something like the mx518, of which I've owned a couple of models and which I loved.

What would you say is a mouse which is just as good as the mx518 and does not have annoying features (I thought of the g400s but apparently it has annoying "smoothing"? Not sure what that is but I'm guessing it messes with the exact trajectory/movements)?

smoothing is a myth.

How so?

If you want something like mx518 (it got prediction) than you should go for g400 revision 1, it got prediction too.

g400 rev2. and g400s dont have prediction.

edit: nvm, I googled "prediction". From what I'm reading, I'd rather not have it.

mx518 got prediction/angle snapping and its confirmed for sure.
and some people really like it.

Yeah, but it's been a year since I last used an mx518 and my current mouse doesn't have it, so I think I've gotten used to not having it. I might as well go for max precision with a new mouse :-) I guess I'll either go with the g400s or the g402, thanks!

g400s is fine

Does it have a good reputation among FPS players?

yes, its the better version of mx518. go for it.

Yes. Rumours go around about its sensor but I've never seen a bad test on it posted by anyone, so they're just rumours; probably a hangup from the first revision of the g400 having prediction.

Thanks, I'll try to get my hands on a g400s and a g402 in order to try both of them out before buying. Cheers!

Logitech G402 is absolute perfection. It's exactly what you're looking for.
Here's a review by NVC (quake player):


I've read that the g400s has issues with the sensor. I don't recommend it.

Thanks! :-) Do you know if anyone bothered to compile the kind of information found in the excel document in the OP for the g402?

Not to my knowledge. It's a new release. However, check out http://www.overclock.net/t/1504917/logitech-g...iew-by-ino

Ok, I ended up buying the g402, and I want to really thank you for bringing it to my attention (as well as nvc for the video) because so far it feels great! :-)

edit: I'm using 1600 dpi and 1000 Hz, but if anyone has advice on recommended settings they're welcome to share!

Yeah it's a fantastic mouse, best one since the DA as NVC pointed out. Spread the word :)

Anything under 2080 CPI will be fine, since there's no smoothing under that value. If you ok with the middle button's tactile switch, then it's a good choice. TBH, I hate that tactile switch, what Logitech is using in the G402 and G502 under the wheel. (MMB)
Mine already has problems with that crap Panasonic switch, so I'm pretty sure I'll swap that with an Omron tactile switch.

Thanks! :)
edit: are you referring to the wheel button (when you press it) or to the wheel itself (when you turn it)? So far I don't have any issue with either.

I was talkin' about the 'scroll wheel click'. Mouse 3, if you prefer. That loud, awkward button, that feels nothing like a 'standard' microswitch.

Here you can see the little circular white tactile switch.

Ok! No complaints on that front from me so far :)

g400 v2 > g402 > g400s

noob

I found updated version of "CS Pro Gear":
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_EojY...PQ/pubhtml
incl. monitor, keyboard, headset, mouse, pad, cpu, gpu...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12PSHq...y8/pubhtml

that's cool

f0rest using kinzu v2 xD

they all using either 400 or 450dpi lol imho a dpi setting between 1000 and 2000 is best for windows and games like starcraft or LoL/dota 2. Especially since these days we have 4K monitors or at least 1080p ^^

And one of best aimers out there...

ScreaM is using DA 2k13 ~44cm/360 - 400 dpi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1ken7K5kQ4

a lot of these mice got buton for dpi switch ;)

area is interesting csgo player:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7fnjzGzEAs
"AREA raped the whole CS:GO scene online and at lan then he quits, Here is an awful compilation made by zblex prod of his best frags ( LAN, online competition, online praccs ) "
http://www.twitch.tv/areacsgo/c/5138787
'Mouse: Zowie EC2 eVo (IE 3.0 always in my heart <3 )'

Which one of these mice fits someone with large hands that prefers palm grip? I love the shape of this one: http://www.inet.se/files/img/max/6101545_0.png as it gives nice support for pinky and ring finger when the whole hand rests on the mouse, sadly the sensor is crap afaik.

http://mionix.net/mice/naos-7000/

Just what I was loking for, thank you.

This website helped me with my Spreadsheet
http://www.test-gear.pl/sensor/
only polish language... (not my website)

but I read many things there and... I think these guys who made it know what they are doing, really.

Some interesting things from there:
3366/3310 - best sensors - no prediction, no jitter, no smoothing, no interpolation, no accel, high max speed, "feeling of the mouse is different than 3090, hard to sayd it worse".

3090/3095 - very good sensor - "great feeling", no smoothing, no accel, quite low lod, high precision, should be used 1000 dpi max (huh?), quite low max speed, works different on different surface

3668/3888/3988 - very good sensors - can be used up to 3500 dpi (3668 max is 1800 :P ), other optic mouse shouldnt be used above 2000 dpi (except 3310/3366), small smoothing (hard to notice)

btw. IntelliAdder http://www.overclock.net/t/1509377/intelliadd...adder-1800 ;)

3090 and 3095 should be used at native dpi steps based on the firmware used by the manufacturer as far as I can recall.

so in a CM alcor that would be 800 and 4000, same goes for the G400s.

The info presented is mostly collective community stuff tbh.

He isn't exactly adding anything new other than just summarizing what other people post on internet.

3988 is much different than 3668/3888 and does not share the same limitations.

1800 isn't exactly a "best dpi" either. The architecture has a more refined DSP that works well with pretty much any setting.

these people on this polish website are doing their own tests, quite a lot mice there.

but maybe you are talking about me, then yes, i tried to summerize it. Also some people asked me to add 'best dpi' etc. Also added some info just confirmed by myself.

Im not able to test all mice.Some day I will try to update it, but got no time for it.

Everybody can do it better, just take my stuff and fix it.

I'm talking about the polish site in particular.

The information presented falls more line with community acceptance of product and not by actual technicalities. Nor do I see any "testing" other than subjective feedback.

3310 and 3366 being grouped together is sort of point and case. Both vastly different designs, yet regarded equally as the "best".

3998 grouped with 3668 and 3888, yet also much different vs the older 2020 architecture? 3988 as a sensor is actually spec stronger than 3310, similar DSP.

ah ok, it was a bit weird for me too, imo 3988 seems to be better than 3668 and 3888. But now I see they didn't really test any of Razer mice. ;] So maybe thats why they did it this way ;)

btw. is that true that some of other mice than Razer can get 3988 now?
.

Logitech G402 (with gyroscope ON) needs to be on this list.

the abyssus 2014 is god-like at least if used at 500hz (default)

dunno about the dpi tho, i'm using 1800 and it works great. Without drivers.

anything bad with synapse?

is cord any good?

i dunno i just installed synapse to try 1000hz then uninstalled then installed again to set it back to 500hz and finally definitively uninstalled :)

didn't try to play with synapse enable, but some people does and no real complain whatsoever.

the cord seems ok, more flexible than the DA's but the DA 2k13's cord seemed more solid. But yeah i think the cord isn't an issue :)

mouse is only 37€ also :p and DA 2k13 69€

Everything seems to be fine.
But did you notice jittering? It got old abyssus sensor, so it could be?

what mouse pad do you use? cloth or hard one?

they should put there S3988 ;p

no jittering. At least at 1800dpi, can't say for the others dpi settings.

mousepad is razer goliathus speed, cloth ofc.

lol dem euro prices. i would never in a million years pay that much for a mouse. ridiculous.

in my country 1$ = 1EUR, mostly.

which is so fkin annoying, I prefer to pay in $ :P

so whats the better sensor, 3988 or 3310?

you forgot about 3366

Yeah but the g502 is way to heavy for my needs. So it's either 3310 or 3988

should not have the mice with smoothing in the same column

probably every mouse got some amount of 'smoothing'

WMO, deathadder 3.5g and g400rev2, for example, have no noticeable smoothing

i think those were the only ones mentioned in the other thread

I didn't feel the 'smoothing' with any mouse :P

There are several problems with the "smoothing" issue. First, it is that it not something that can (yet) be objectively measured through controlled tests, as opposed to something like tracking performance. Second, serious discussions over "smoothing" / latency are a relatively recent occurrence so awareness/consensus on the issue is non-existent. Finally, it is not something that affects everyone equally. Latency is something that different users have different levels of sensitivity to. The "4000 DPI" second-revision A3090 SROM has increased "smoothing" over its first-revision predecessor, but the majority of users cannot perceive a difference in real-world use. Some users even claim to feel a difference in responsiveness between the A3090/S3888 (DeathAdder 3.5G) and the S6888 (DeathAdder 3G.)

Traditionally, the term "flawless sensor" is referring to a sensor that does not have tracking issues—no prediction, acceleration, pixel-walk, etc. The wording is not ideal, as "flawless" implies the sensor is perfect, whereas users who can perceive increased latency due to "smoothing" would consider a sensor suffering from one as unacceptable.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0

Here's the mouse post from GH. Notice that "smoothing" is defined in the glossary, but the device list section is titled, "List of mice without acceleration and prediction." This is more accurate wording, as there are devices listed that have increased latency due to "smoothing," but the post is being specific that this is not being considered as a criteria.

At the end of the day, we're just debating a technicality here—users who can perceive "smoothing" and take issue with it already have some level of awareness about it and will be more discerning when they read lists like these.

Typo correction: meant S3688, not S6888.

actually, http://i.imgur.com/j2Y4Dmd.png, so it seems like 3310 has 1600 as native setting.

that was posted on OCN some time ago aswell, but was clearly identified as clueless blabla from this support guy.

Anyone have or uses G502 Proteus ?

Used to, sensor was amazing, just couldn't stand the combination of the shape and weight.
If the mouse was a bit wider the weight would've been fine though, for me of course.

Gave the mouse to my brother.

Compared to g500 or mx518 (my previous to g500) is it heavier without the weights or the same?
I'm asking because I will be replacing my 6year old g500 and most likely will buy the next model.

Thank bro :)

It's around a 5th heavier than an mx518 before adding weights to the g502.

5grams? or?
I own g500 so if its the same weight as g502 I will not be having problems :)

15ish grams heavier than an mx518

Actually I found:
mx518 105grams
my g500 164grams
new g502 161grams

tnx anyway :)

G502 is 125g without added weights and without the cable.
I'd assume the g500 is similar.

you can add kinzu v3 to the list, 3090 sensor, max dpi 3200

I read that kinzu v3 got ADNS-3050 sensor.

http://steelseries.com/products/mice/steelseries-kinzu-v3

"The brains of the Kinzu v3 is the powerful Pixart ADNS-3050"

ah yes you are right and i was wrong :)

someone told me it was 3090 but obviously he was wrong :p

is the 3050 any good ? Isn't the same sensor than in the g100s ?

also, the kinzu v3 has a dpi range from 250 to 2000.

All I can recall that has the 3050 are the Xornet and Ninox prototype, the Xornet is very surface dependent and doesn't perform well above 500dpi aside from that it has no apparent issues, and I have never used the Ninox prototype.

ok :)

dunno, 3050 seems to be quite good

Logitech G302 and G402

Now im really confused. How is that smoothness goes on in pwm3310 sensors, is it comes noticable with too high values or with any value that isnt native? I was going too buy roccat kone pure military (it has pwm3310 sensor like fk1/rival, not paw3310), and i wanted to ask for any confirmed sensor issues with lower dpi steps (im going to play with 400-500 dpi and 500hz) like any kind of input lag, noticable smoothing etc. Im thinking also about razer DA chroma (overprized, not so durable, razer synapse) and zowie fk1 ( grip doesnt stick to me, would need to remove these buttons on the right side since it could piss me off, why no simple drivers? I want to see my refresh rate or lod settings!?), i need mouse for hardcore gaming and since ive got new, high refreshing monitor, i can feel every little issue or input lag. And also mousepad: i was thinking about roccat sense, since i can get it with roccat kone in quite low prize, so now is there anybody having that pad? Its so colorfull, so im afraid of compatibility with mouse sensors (tesoro aegis is my alternative option, full compstibility with any sensor but it might be to slow). Actually got an old, black razer goliathus (its almost dead :< )which fits fine to me, also roccat taito which is too slow. So another question: is there is any mid prized black material pad comparable (mostly smoothness of movement) with goliathus?

Just took my hands on Razer Abyssus 2014. After using an old Logitech ergonomic mouse this was a huge upgrade, and the price is just irresistible. The feeling of the sensor in your hand, and control.. Finally! I even recorded a 15 minute FFA Quake Live match with more details and a review in description:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5HWGP0lVVU

hi, the new steelseries rival 100 has a flawless sensor?

im using a mionix castor since last week. no problems with the sensor so far. has a place for the ring finger, and the surface helps me grip the mouse itself really nicely. scroll is not as awsome as my g5 used to have, bit harder to click, but usable. price is rather high :(
not as long as the classic logitech shape, however its a bit wider. fazz told me he really did not like mionix mice, but i like ot so far.

ive also tried a cougar 530M. terrible surface. i sweat a lot since im a fat bastard so its really hard to get a proper hold on the mouse. it has that 3 dollar mice feel, and really hard to play with a palmgrip (even it was advertised as palm and claw grip compatible). the right click is incredibly sensitive. the software runs at every startup and takes 7 seconds to open the config panel. probably an i7 is not enough for the complicated program. has huge feet just like the castor, and a good sensor (only played with it for like 2 days). i found out it was faulty, cause it shown wrong colours on the lower leds, so i was fortunate to get my money back for that horrible rodent. why did i choose it? looked cool and had 3 years of garantee.

btw fazz is using g303 nowdays. ive also seen warhuryeah's review as well about the mice (prem div tf2 player). im gonna embend it if anyone interested and step asinde from the "omg its not quake" esr thinking. i hope ive helped someone out, cause if theres something esr loves, ITS THE DAMN MICE (besides comparing shaft stats and pissing on syncerror :D)

Can confirm, the G303 is one hell of a mouse for people who are into smaller mice.

Been playing CS since I was 14, went professional with Check Six back in CS Source when I was 18 and been bouncing between being a designer @ ASUS and trying to get my stream up and running while focusing on Overwatch in the mean time during closed beta.

I'm sort of obsessed with mice, know far too much about them and very, very picky. Gotta say, the G303 is legit - love the sensor, but the shape needs some work, feels like a pyramid in your hand :(

Someone with the knowledge and patients should update that excel file. Might be interesting to see how the mice compare now on the flawless list