my pc hasnt crashed since i got it. my cursor has disappeared on startup a few times, but other than that...

my laptop since mid-2013 has crashed at least 4 times and it's due, as i was only told a week ago, to some HD failure. i'm just sick and tired of pcs now but i want to know if it's worth it.

That happens with windows 8.1 When you restart your pc instead of shutting down and starting up.

its pointless to argue this as ive experienced my cursor disappearing on startup DDDDD:

Again it is normal for that to happen. That is what i mean.

Again it is normal for that to happen. That is what i mean.

My PC literally hasn't crashed for years and my HDD is broke as fuck, dunno man.

I would advice against any apple product.

Why?

because when buying an apple product you pay for:
10% operating system.
15% hardware
5% labor (putting the thing together, including design etc.)
10% other things (like transport, sales services, etc.)
60% for Apple ripping you off.

meanwhile the OS doesn't support half of the things you want it to support, you have to buy a shitload of stuff that is free elsewhere and you can't control the access you have to your own data....

Hm. I've never really used Mac/OSX, but could elaborate with some examples?
>the OS doesn't support half of the things you want it to support
>you have to buy a shitload of stuff that is free elsewhere
>can't control the access you have to your own data

it kind of depends which product you are talking about regarding what is in and what is not.

For the Mac, the java support for instance is messed up.
Whenever there is a new java version it takes Apple about a decade to make it work on a Mac. And even then it might only work on Mac's which have OSX version blabla installed....
Often games don't run (or not correctly) on a Mac. (hello directX)
I'm not sure if they ever fixed their issue with Adobe but before flash would not work at all and they had their own pdf viewer.

Backwards compatibility is incredibly shit, so often you have to find the correct download to fit with your version of the osx.
Now for windows this is also 'an issue' but you could compare the mac to having a 64bit windows that ONLY runs 64 bit software.
(while windows machines have np running 32bit software on a 64bit OS, of course running the 64bit version is more optimal, but not necessary).

Stuff like that...
There are a lot of silly things on a Mac that I had never thought about before... But when I started to write software for it (using Java) I ran into so much nonsense....

Alright, thanks for sharing.

Be aware that a lot of the tools are outdated on Mac's due to GPL licensing. That said, my current employer is hugely Mac based and crashes are relatively rare. The only times we've seen them occur is due to issues with hardware, e.g. video on older Macs.

Steam supports a good deal of games for Mac, however the selection still isn't as good as Windows.

Again, so full of shit, man. I have received Java updates on my Mac on the same day as my PC.

What issue with Adobe? Flash works fine on OS X, and updates happen as they are released. OS X uses "Preview" to view PDF files, which also allows you to edit/add content to PDF files.

I suspect you don't code or program at all...because if you did, you would understand how much easier these tasks are on a Mac.

so when was the previous time I was full of shit?

So why exactly does this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_version_history

Say that java 7 was released on 2011-07-28, and got (full) mac support on 2012-08-14 ?

in my opinion and many years of experience, at least when talking about the MacBook Pro line, you're mostly paying for quality hardware, and it's well worth it (again, in my opinion/experience). i agree that there's a significant premium for the Apple name.

This is so far from the truth it's unreal.

While yes, I will agree that Apple rips you off to some extent, I can safely say I have never had a machine as strong as my MacBook Pro.

This shit can run like 34889374934 apps and process so many things in the background and foreground without a hick-up. Plus, all Apple updates are either free or <$15 USD. Can you say that about MS products?

Not to mention, when you need support, Apple will help you, and you won't be forwarded to some broken English speaker from the Philippines.

Outside of gaming, I have had no issue with software that isn't supported by Apple. It's 2015. Everything you can do on a PC, you can do on a Mac. It isn't Apple's fault if some game developer won't port a Mac version.

I didn't say that they were utterly crap devices.
I said that you pay wayyyy too much for them.

The reason why you feel like you "can run 34889374934 apps and process so many things in the background and foreground without a hick-up", is probably because this is your first experience using a SSD (solid state disk).
Which is one of the major improvements in interacting with the PC of the last few years.
So yes I can say that windows machines can do the same.

To a large degree it is Apple's fault that game devs stay away from the Mac. Heck if you read John Carmack's notes on Q3 and the Mac..... You might see why that is.



It kinda boils down to this: do you want to be able to do whatever you want with your computer, or do you want to be able to do whatever Apple allows on your Mac?

I would chose the 1st option.

PC's are horse shit for anything related to video editing and graphic design or any sort of digital production. I have had godly PC setups for things such as rendering in cinema 4d and things would crash, try working in heavy dpi and resolutions in photoshop when you need to do it raster based and a PC will crumble.

Used Mac's for said above and I've never had a crash, the only "crash" was forgetting to keep my macbook on charge when leaving it to render something and the battery died.

Apple products are designed to make use of the hardware albeit it looking to be not as high spec'd as the whole "PC Master Race."

Kind of like how Android phones have amazing hardware but only use about 30% overall, poorly coded OS and useless memory dumps, shitty kernel usage, the list goes on.

However, OP would be best suited using a PC for what he does.

Not entirely true but you do have a small point.

I have heard "good stories" about graphics design and video editing...
The main reason why this fails on regular PC's though, is due to faulty drivers or wrongfully setup software. (3d studio max is one of those things which has a lot of things that tend to crash with certain drivers etc. although I myself am not too familiar with it.)

The reason why this "does work on Mac" is because you can't alter the hardware of a Mac and you have virtually no control over the drivers. So you just have to install the right version and everything is setup right automatically...
This is also the reason why Mac's can get better than 30% overall usage, all of the hardware is hand picked and optimized to work well with eachother. Then they write software which is also optimized for that hardware... and tada you get a decent product.
The downside to all that optimization of crap hardware is of course that users aren't allowed to do certain things.
Upside is that they can't fuck things up either...

It's got nothing to do with with the faulty drivers or wrongfully setup software, it's overall hardware incompatibility, it's like me building a pc and taking a shit motherboard and expecting it to run a top class graphics card and CPU at optimal performance, us PC users have to much free choice to what we can stick together and call a setup.

You can spend for example £5k on hardware and just mash it together and it'll be awesome, then if you do some research you can spend £2.5k on the same type of hardware but research which brands work well together and you'll have a pc running pretty much the same and/or better, again this is just an example but I'm sure you can agree on that.

Sure I can agree with that people who are clueless shouldn't build their own pc.
But I put that in the 5% of labor in my OP. (putting the thing together and design it).
That part (imo) is excluded from ripping people off.

But for instance if you look at a company as ASUS... they have an operating margin of around 4%~5%.
And this is kind of their core business...

Apple however does about the same (although partially in a different market)... and perhaps slightly better if that is your opinion (it's not mine).... But they charge you 6 times more it and end up with a massive 30% operating margin....

I think that it's ripping people off tbh...

Yeah, I know apple are heavily over priced, you have give it to them though, aesthetically pleasing, easy to use and they have device support and customer service that is second to none in the digitally industry. I think also because they're considered the industry standard in terms of their products I guess they've earned the right to sell at a higher value.

If I had my way, every apple mac would be shipped with a linux distro installed and then call it a day.

well user friendliness is fine for Apples.... But their business structure is just SOOO messed up.

They want a piece of every pie..... And economically that just doesn't make any sense.
For instance, if you buy a record in a store... the artists gets X$ of that record, the shop owner gets Y$ of that record...
But if you buy the same record through iTunes, the artists gets X-AppleTax$ and there is no shop owner!
Apple gets Y + AppleTax $ while having virtually 0 expenses.

If you want to write an app for an iPhone... You have to pay apple to develop that.... Then you do all the work for that app.....
You then have to submit this to Apple for "testing" after which they place it in the digital store for some $$ and they simply take half.

It's like saying here is the free internet............ And here is the Apple taxed internet!

(ok the values aren't exactly right... I think... I haven't really dug deep on this. I actually don't want to write for iPhones / iPads)

But this can't really last...
I mean every year that it does, it's great for apple.... But eventually the market will pwn this company.

Actually I really like the Jay-Z company he founded and treat the artists fairly.

reason why I didn't dig deep on this is that I have heavy moral objections towards paying a company in order to develop software for that platform.

It's a reversed world to me...

Fair points all the way through, however if you were the said owner of Apple, I don't think you'd be complaining too much ;)

The $99 one off dev fee is horse shit, however they do have an amazing platform, so you know when you create something it'll again "just work" they're pretty strict in what can get posted, I also think their sole rights to your app is bullshit as well and the % they take is just mad, saying that you only need a bit of viral marketing and boom you're set for life. Apps are the ultimate way to creating a passive income that'll last a lifetime (so to say.)

Android on the other hand is also pretty damn popular, however they don't have a strict market to develop for, they let a lot of shit fly, I mean you can create a key logger and get it onto their store within 24 hours.

The platform to watch out for is good old Microsoft, with them now owning Nokia, it'll be very interesting because they just do their own thing and they have some really interesting things in the pipeline, given then right marketing strategy could easily dominate the mobile market shortly.

If I were Tim Cook I would do a lot of things different, but I wouldn't complain :D

But I like the way Android approaches the market a lot more than what Apple does.....

What MS is gonna do is a bit unsure... I would like a "windows phone" to compete with apple and android on one hand....
I would assume that (because most android apps are Java (or something only slightly divergent) MS phones would run all android apps.
Which could make it very easy to develop for, creating a heavy contrast to Apple's fubar way of dealing with things.
It would be somewhat unclear what the difference to android and windows phones would be though...
In my eyes there is still quite a lot of uncertainty there.

The previous windows CE wasn't really the "omfg this is awesome" kinda thing either... for developers it was nice, but for users, not so much.

If you have a lot of money go for it... I guess.
But buying it just because it "crashes less often" is not a good idea.
If you are not braindead and you like mainstream kind of porn you should be fine with PC.
If you care about money just a bit you should go for PC.

Learn about the operating system
Look into apps
If it interests you, go for it.

Dont forget There is an apple tax included with every purchase, btw.
You'll always get more bang for the buck elsewhere.

Gl

A PC is just as stable as a Mac as long as:

The hardware isn't completely messed up;
The OS install isn't completely messed up;
And the thing between the chair and the keyboard isn't completely messed up.

Macs are not impervious to crashing. Much like Windows, poorly written third party drivers and/or faulty hardware can cause stability issues. I have used both systems for over 10 years both at home and work, and have no strong opinions regarding either platform. My advice is to get a system with quality hardware and good support, and use it sensibly.

If you want a stable computer then shell out the big bucks for a high-end HD. Since _ALL_ my computerproblems originates from a bad drive.

I'm surprised Mac has so many loyal buyers currently. They are meh. And it's fanboys are annoying. Personal opinion though. Whatever tickles your pickle.

A mac is awesome if you work with it, as in music, gfx, media design etc. If you want it for facebook & youtube, I don't think its worth it.

posting in a Monkey_Business thread

Got my first Mac product a Macbook Pro 13". I use it for work: coding(front end stuff, html, css, javascript) and design. Love it for that. I don't use it for anything else. It keeps me focused. On my PC there are too many distractions like quake, fb, tony hawk, porn(cooller demos) etc.

So far not a single crash. But my PC does not crash often either. So for the price and your usage its not worth it imo. Get a laptop with a high res display instead.

Crash often? What are you doing to it?

He is putting it in a race car and programming to drive into a wall.

Well, that's no good, is it?

got it fixed a couple of days ago, was a faulty hdd all along. still considering the upgrade though.

I see. I feel we're losing you to the dark side.

I've had my imac since 2009. Since then I think it may only have crashed once or twice. I run windows / os x / Debian linux on it as a triple boot. Lately I've been using linux for every day tasks since my work uses google apps mainly now, and I boot into windows to just play quake. I use mini displayport out to a 120hz monitor for gaming.

What I think? Was it worth the money? For me yes. I haven't stuck with the same computer for 6 years before lol, and it works just as well today as the day I bought it. Only now am I feeling the need to upgrade, as there are so many new games on the horizon. I'd love the new Mac Pro for some gaming longevity but it's bloody expensive. The quality of hardware is worth it imo.

Wow a triple boot on a Mac! Very nice.

Got macbook air 13" for 1.5years almost (my first mac expirience), never crashed, though my windows machines never crashed in that period also.

Your main considiration should be budget. If money is not that important go for mac for sure, if you will need windows at some point - just install as dual boot with built-in BootCamp Assistant. Also if you go for mac - aim for SSD ones.

Speaking specifically of laptops - if you have money for the spec you need - go for mac without a doubt - nice display, perfect touchpad, long battery life, light weight, slim design, low noise operation will outweight every other their rival.

feel free to ask specific question as I do use asus notebook with win 7 and macbook air on the daily basis for work and leisure.

i second pretty much everything you said. for me, it's a macbook pro that i've had for around 4 years and it still feels just like new - incredibly snappy (i7 @2.7 GHz with SSD helps!), durable, slick-looking, etc. Probably will be another few years before i start to feel the need to upgrade. and most importantly, it runs QL (i'm BootCamped into Windows 8.1) flawlessly at 120hz VSynced or 250fps.

hot shit and definitely worth the money...because i'm rich :PPP

It heard it only crashes a lot if you play games from crytek.

No mac aystem no hacedked as bad as windows in broswer link to computer insidea

So, I own a MacBook Pro. It never crashes, ever. I have had this machine for over a year, and it has never crashed.

However, Safari crashes all the fucking time, and I often get weird displays in Safari where half the page will flicker blank content and then show the actual content. Also, it often fails to update with the Google Fraudulent Website server. So, sometimes you will get errors that say your fraud check hasn't been updated in 5 days. (Requires safe boot and clearing Safari cache).

It looks like all you do is basic browsing...I don't think I would drop so much money on a Mac for browsing. Plus, Windows 10 is about to drop.

install firefox or chrome

Got a pc workstation with win7 that I use mostly, my pc fails me once in a while, I also have a macbook air when I am not home/travelling, use it also regularly, at least once a week ... never failed me so far ...
but its not powerful ... you try to do anything resource intensive the fans get loud, etc., but for surfing, watching web and not resource intensive programming its ok. Also completely silent when there is not much load, that is 98 % of the time. Good stuff, but being a poweruser, you still need to use Win7 one way or the other ... so mac is not really a choice for a power user ... linux for example is not as stable as many people say, the x-server/desktopmanager regularly freezes there at least once a week, thats why I got rid of linux, good for servers and maybe for academic people who are not really much into trying out new technologies/applications ...

Intel & Nvidia + Windows 7 = win
Don't touch any of the other shit if you need to get work done with your system.
For recreational use get a freaking Raspberry 2 and hook it up to your TV.
Apple products just plain suck in every way imaginable and yes I know my shit my husband made me buy a lot of those utter crap fucktard devices omg I am so weak.
Don't talk about ease of use wtf you can't do anything with those things.
Buy an Apple product and never get taken seriously for the rest of your life, especially if you work in video or graphics, excluding those pitiful print and vector guys, they are soon to be extinct anyway.