Was there new movement?

I can't answer this. It's improvement in a few ways, it's also slowed down in other ways. I like it but a few more tweaks to increase the speed would be good imo.

Read below........

From Newborn (aka fleacircus), Discord channel banter, 10-27-2015:

fleacircus: So I don't know if there was any chat about it in discord after I went to sleep, but I did a pick-up last night to test a bunch of different movement balances and here are the results.

fleacircus: Players were not told what the movement balancing was until after they'd played a match, so that they weren't just giving feedback based on the one they thought they were supposed to like best. Anyway, people don't actually like straight CPMA movement as much as they think they do. Admittedly, it's not a perfect match but people were instantly dubious of the feel after playing with it, saying that it felt heavy and slow. Post-game feedback was almost entirely negative.

fleacircus: Next up was v37 movement. Some people liked it, even mentioning it felt "kind of like v36". Someone said it was actually too fast. Everyone noticed the gravity change and after the CPMA set some people mentioned that it now felt a bit too fast/slippery. One person liked the straight CPMA better. Generally the feedback was the mix of like/dislike we've already seen from the actual v37 release.

fleacircus: After that we tried v36. Some people instantly liked it better, some people instantly disliked it. They definitely said it felt weird and since I've spent a month+ with v37 movement, I know those feels. Someone mentioned it was weird to have that much air control. The most popular feedback was probably "it feels better to play with but worse to play against" -- partly the speed, partly the gravity being heavier again.

fleacircus: Then we tried v36 movement with v37 gravity and feedback went exactly as expected. "floaty as fuck", "way too floaty", "too easy to gain speed" etc. This is exactly why v37 wasn't just a gravity change.

fleacircus: Then we tried v36 with v37 air control and that was hated too. It's definitely the part of v37 that people don't like but as the last test showed, without some air control changes, the gravity change just doesn't work at all. Mostly it seems like people who dislike the gravity actually dislike the slight change in bunny-hop timing.

fleacircus: Then we played a tweaked version of v37 gravity/air control and that was generally agreed to be the best balance of everything. It felt a little less floaty, but not as heavy as the old gravity. Some people thought it felt a little fast, although it was actually pretty much just v36 speeds. Unfortunately, these tweaked values are in a sort of anti-sweet spot. There's a certain balance to all of these movement variables which does weird things -- having a bunny acceleration value of 70 might feel good, but at 65 you feel either a weird, slowing pull (part of what people didn't like about v37, though it can be much worse), OR you feel the opposite of it, which is a weird acceleration when you don't expect it, but then you change another movement value and all of a sudden 65 feels good again.

fleacircus: So ultimately, despite all the "omg wtf worse game designer ever noobporn" sentiment going around, everything went exactly as expected. The gravity is an improvement but requires other movement to be tweaked. Keeping exactly v36 or exactly v37 is not the answer, the answer is probably continuing to tweak the v37 values, which is exactly what the plan always was before people lost their minds and tried to push for a revert.

At first i thought you were just a random troll on the reflex forums, but after seeing you fanatically chase down all my posts i'm not sure whether you suffer from mental issues. I'll try to explain one last time. The reason why i created the poll in the first place, had nothing to do with interfering in the game's development. As we all know, newborn and his team are busy creating a game (and they are doing an awesome job at that) that is essentially the spiritual successor to CPM, so don't even expect radical game changes. And why would you? CPM was (imo) a polished game that only needed a few tweaks and a graphical upgrade, which it got. As described in your post, newborn is indeed testing different styles of movement in the dev server with a bunch of inside people, and as it seems they are planning to further fine-tune the recently introduced v37 values. This poll was ment to get some sort of pinpoint, to see how the community is divided into the faster, cpm-like v36 movement and the more 'ql-ish' slower v37 movement. So contrary to your belief (although i'm not even sure what your point is), NOT to come knocking at newborn's door saying 'hey, the majority's consensus is that we should definitely switch to v37 movement permanently!'

Just wanted to point that out, sir.

so don't even expect radical game changes.

I think those were already made to a degree.

CPM was very much like this back in the days, it was all very experimental, and BIG changes were made relatively late into the development stages (Most notably pm1 -> pm2).

If arQon and ix were still around, many more changes would have been made in more recent years, I'm sure of it.

Gangland's a pretty cool guy, and has been a pretty active member of the community (as evidenced by his reputation on the reflex forums). Furthermore, he did not express any opinion in his post above, and I see no harm in informing people of the whole movement situation as the devs see it.

That said, sure, it'd be interesting how people feel about the new movement, but in the end it's futile, as it won't change the developers minds.

Personally, I'm happy to see the devs experimenting, even if it doesn't always work out.

Feeling reluctant to reply to this ongoing topic but i was referring to this guy's posts on the reflex forums saying a poll about movement is useless and the post should be nuked, and some other (immature) stuff.

P.S. judging a person's credibility based on his forum's reputation, really? If we were to do that in real life, Kanye West could actually become president.

I didn't say he was credible because of his internet points, just that he is an active member.

Even if you don't agree with someone, I think it's a bad idea to bad mouth them if they are an active part of a community. Active members is what we want, after all.

The context of the Reflex forums are lost here, but now I've checked them out it seems he was bad mouthing you as well. So I guess both of you are being immature.

To get back on-topic; there will be a patch this week with tweaked movement, so the devs have definitely noticed all of this.

Just like to squash this..

Did I comment; yes, stating that the OP should have been nuked. I felt that the post was redundant due to the fact that this is still in progress (vetting movement issues), and taking into account Newborns above narrative. This was not a personal jab towards you.

The 2nd post started, @ Padawan ,, Newbie, This was a bit of a jab, as I really didn't know you or had seen you in-game or in the forums. For that I apologize. I had thought you were just someone new that was trolling. Dansen pointed out that you weren't new and that your input should be noted.

I then responded Ok well my bad, but still pointing out the above and that my thought was that the topic was pointless due to context.

Have I cut/pasted Newborns above narrative to 2 other forums which you've added the straw poll to? Yes, and the reason is that I feel that this is bordering on another "timers" discussion. New people see this stuff, have no idea the context, and say "well shit people are arguing about this and that, mebe I'll move on". I added Newborns information so that they may read the ACTUAL plans and progress, not just what a few of the community members are interested in.

Again, nothing personal man. Just interested in this game doing well, and people having all the information so that they can make their own decision.

Have I cut/pasted Newborns above narrative to 2 other forums which you've added the straw poll to?

I think this was meant as a reply to padawan? Lots of dutch flags in this thread, I understand the confusion. :D

Still though, calling someone a newbie is still bad manners, even if the player IS new to the game.

Don't we value the opinion of new players, even if they have far less experience/knowledge about the game?

Yes, and I said My bad, and edited the post.

As far as valuing the opinion of anyone, yes of course, but the post just seemed like bait/troll, and I took it as an affront on the devs who are working their asses off, meanwhile fending off negativity from all sides. I'm not interested in becoming a pariah over this. Just wanted to get on the same page with all associated. And yes now in hindsight "I" brought the negativity, and for that I apologized.

:o/

Not trying to make you a pariah man, I'll quote myself:

Gangland's a pretty cool guy

I know m8 <3

Thanks for the correction, no hard feelings i guess. And yeah let's get as many people to enjoy this awesome game.

Edit: i often self reflect, and come back to my previous posts. reading back what i wrote kinda makes me realise i crossed the line with the 'mental issue' remark. regardless if it was deserved or not, it's a stupid thing to say, i admit. furthermore i also took a glance at your stream and you seem like a good man. i guess it was all a misunderstanding from the beginning and we are all humans, we make mistakes, right? peace out from a fellow reflexer

edited my post.

+ respect, see you in the arena!!!!

To pitch back in on what you said:

'I think those were already made to a degree'

Which radical gameplay change actually made it into the game? Afaik stakegun already got removed. Imo, Reflex still is a conservative iteration of CPM with renewed graphics (which is NOT a bad thing, i'd say) I'm just curious how it exactly is radically different from it's predecessor? I am aware of the mega respawn time but that's about it. And Lua hud scripting is a technical, non-gameplay thing.

LG has almost no knockback compared to cpm, shotgun is useful, different spawn weapons and wr 10 (I think).

Small changes in the grand scheme of things I suppose.

beat me to it

Stakegun will come back afaik, they just want to remove the bugs before doing so.

* Movement has changed quite radically now with the new physics
* lg is a lot less powerful
* capsule hitbox
* rocket splash radius is smaller
* plasma deals far less damage but has far more knockback
* shaft has almost no knockback
* shotgun has a much smaller amount of spread, but deals less damage
* grenades have a larger hitbox
* triple jumps add a lot of new movement possibilities
* the melee weapon has been reworked so it doesn't fire continuously but you have to time it
* and in teammodes (or at least CTF) team damage is halved.

And as you said, the megahealth.

It's very different from cpm imo, except that they both have (different amounts of) aircontrol.

edit:

As Pill_ mentioned, the spawn weapon, how could I forget that?

Yes i can relate to the triple jumps mention, but for the rest they are small, non-radical gameplay changes that are still due to change. Although a change, the spawnweapon is pretty useless imo, and the only reason it's being used is because you have no other option. Machinegun in CPM had extra value for finishing off low hp opponent from a long distance.

Getting offtopic here but my 2 cents for adjusting gameplay:

- Keep the movement similar to as it is now in .37
- Increase LG knockback and damage
- Increase splash damage for rockets and nades
- Decrease the 'hitbox' of the nades, they hit so easily atm
- Nerf the shotty's rangespread, damage is ok i think

EDIT: After playing for a while i'd say rocket boost can be turned down a notch, it's way too punishing now being launched to the ceiling on every impact

EDIT2: ammo boxeees

I realise that in the end i'm actually leaning to a more CPM styled set of tweaks but i just think it was really balanced out.

I don't see how the weapon changes are small, they completely change how the game is (and can be) played. And you mentioned "due to change" but this applies to EVERYTHING.

The spawnweapon isn't useless imo, but that was not the point.

As for your suggestions regarding tweaks, I agree with all points except the last. SG as it is rages me at times, as I feel it is too powerful. But I think that's because I (and many other) players still have a cpm mindset, where the shotgun is a lower tier weapon, I think it simply has another role in Reflex, and I want to learn to adapt to it.

The testers for the particular session you and gangland refer to were chosen because they IM'ed newborn the fastest on the public discord channel. Hardly an insider affair. In fact the skill level was pretty diverse. There was one player who was asking "I'm new" questions the day before and then there were guys like DraQu.

Source: I was one of the kewl insiders. If memory serves me I was the only CPM'er there (fun fact: I was also the only one who enjoyed CPM movement).

pill + pada + Vo0 + tr1pwire + me, all dutch reflex tdm/ctf team?

Me in CTF is probably like a fish on dry soil but why not. Also add colin (tripwire) :p

Team [Klomp]

Ik kan nep sommige nederlanders ...

Almost.

If only you had spent all the time you were camping at gl on cpm22 studying dutch. :(

But I never camp at GL!

Waiting for 2x GA, GL, RG, RL and then control.

Trzepiekonski :p

Just my two cents: too floaty and RJing horizontally feels completely nerfed for some reason. I don't mind the lower air control, though.

Also, the new model size seems to make every stair and tele jump stupid easy. I'd really like wallclipping in as well but that's a nuance that can come later down the line.

Want to play with you guys :<

Are you talking about 37.3 vs. 37, or 37 vs. 36?