Lots of people still play QW.

Speaking of which, I linked to this somewhere the average QW player is more likely to see it:

http://www.besmella-quake.com/comments.asp?NewsId=950385455386643173726852

....then some one can redo it for Q4 ;)

BTW, If you have any wishes,ideas or thoughts for WW, feel free to post them below since I'll be completely redoing parts of it

How about some screenshots/betas? :D

I saved this when it was posted on qw.nu. Waterwalk might be completely different now.

I see places to ramp jump :D

Ah you legend, I was looking for that, but it wasn't at it's old address (http://www.konradsson.net/leveldesign/images/waterwalk1.gif)

Yeh make some decnt maps for q4 pls. we need it more than tehose filthy Qworlders:)

Q4 needs nothing short of divine intervention to make it :P

Have to finish redoing the basic layout first, since I probably suck at qw now there'll probably be a public beta later on where better players than I can playtest it :)

OK then, looking forward to it ;)

How about a q3 version for cpm? th emovement is very simlair to qw

I'll not be doing any conversions personally but if the level is popular Hubster is certainly welcome to do them if he wants

*cough* CPM *cough*

If you want to send it to me, I will convert for Reflex. B-)

Aerowalk is still my map of preference and I never seem to get tired og playing it like I've done with some of the other maps during my years as a qw player. Qw is no doubt still popular but not much has been happening at a competive level, but that might change with DuelMania 5 in planning and the return of QW.NU. Anyway, I wish you good luck on WaterWalk and I really do hope we get to see some of your latest work, if it's even half as good as Aerowalk I'm still going to play it :)

sweet

Hey! nice, this is just what we need, since lots of people are whiuning about dm6/dm4 being cs-maps :(
I have a suggestion, dont make the map so one-side-pwnage-one-side-sucky. like dm6 only has ga and rl in close hand.
Make it difficult to get RA, that will be popular and maybe something that requires an rj :o
Im so excited about this. If it could be realeased with something like qw.nu back up it will be GREAT :D

to you q3 and q4-players, shame on you trying to get our maps just cuz yours suck :( start with qw instead

/P3PP3

The current RA placement in Waterwak is pretty interesting I think and it does require a rjump, imagine a cylinder buried to about half in a corridor with high ceiling, the RA is placed at the middle/peak of the cylinder so you have to rjump over it from either side of the corridor. I'm hoping this will make for some interesting situations where two players rjump to grab it from each side and meet in the air :)

Btw, I've read some critique about the RA placement in Aerowalk and the fact that it's a spawn. The idea behind that was simply that a owned player would have a chance for comeback by spawning on the RA once in a while and, what's the arguments behind the complaint?

I haven't followed the scene lately but it seems there arent as many leveldesigners around anymore to make maps for q3,q4 and so forth? I don't envy those since I still hold that in order to be a good dm leveldesigner you need to be a very very good player and know the game your designing for. That's why I didnt and dont make more maps for games other than q1 which I atleast once upon a time was pretty good at :)

I generally don't like them much in QW, where RA is so overpowered and weaponstay means you can be 300HP and well armed within seconds of respawning.

In CPMA, they're a very grey area and we've argued about RA spawns within the team since the dawn of time. I'm generally in favour of them there for the reasons you mention, but ix HATES them. :P

"I still hold that in order to be a good dm leveldesigner you need to be a very very good player and know the game your designing for."

You make a good point here. Good players simply know things about the game that inexperienced players could not even imagine. A noob making a GOOD competitive map is less likely than somebody who has never played golf making a GOOD pro course. Sure, it *might* be able to happen, it is just not very likely. Unfortunately, the intersection between very good players and mappers is either incredibly small or non-existent.

There are 2 problems with RA spawns in my eyes alhough I am arguing from a CPMa gameplay point of view. Giving the down player a chance to comeback with an RA spawn requires that the game is very high scoring and that control switches fairly often, otherwise the randomness of RA spawns significiantly warps the outcome of the match.

If I kill you ten times and you get an RA spawn and regain control but then I spawn on RA and regain control after only one death then the match has been determined by a spawn.

RA spawns are also extremely frustrating when you win a fight for an important item only to have the opponent spawn on it and leap at you with a dropped weapon from the fight or a nearby spawn. Again a randomly generated number has made the difference between you having 150 armour and the chance to restock health and your opponent having full health, 150 armour and a good chance of killing you.

In CPMa control is not so absolute that it requires luck spawns to break it but is strong enough that breaking a period of control has a significant effect on the outcome of the match so this should not occur randomly.

I don't think it matters that much. In football the teams gets penalties they weren't supposed to get sometimes, and that just adds to the drama. :) Out of 10 games, the better player will win most of them anyway. ;)

"Out of 10 games, the better player will win most of them anyway. ;) "

For progaming that's not good enough.

Aye, each game should be decided before it starts.

There's still plenty of room for lucky shots and timing without having shallow, damaging rubbish like game-determining spawns. You'd be happy to hear 'yeah well I played well but he got better spawns' when it means something rather than being an excuse at the end of a world tour? That'd be one fucking stupid game.

texas hold em? them best players win but retards can still get lucky on the flop. that's what makes the game so popular

More people should play RF2 and Skull :o

ill play qw until i die if theres comp.. otherwise ill just play trickmaps.. I think qw is in my mind as soccer on my friends.. there is no need to worry about qw dying.. especially not with maps like aerowalk and perhaps waterworld =P
It will be fun playing 4on4 on dm2 as a 70year old quaker.. dont think i need better graphics, farcry rocked my world but aint a tenth of the intensity of qw.. GOOD WORK MAN... n make my christmas rock.. coz i hate this holiday.. looking forward to this.. bw HdR

awesome! any chance of some screenshots?

I concur TM AC

/me pokes preacher in the hope he'll poop out some screenies :x

These aren't new but maybe some might not have seen them. Keep in mind that they are very alpha and is being redone quite extensively right now

http://www.konradsson.net/waterwalk/waterwalk1.gif
--
Here you can see the spiral staircase that didnt work out (note to self, spiral staircases suck for dm) and has been removed, I'm also going to add another another tier, 3-levels was a bit boring IMO


http://www.konradsson.net/waterwalk/waterwalk3.gif
--
Here you see the RA placement, it's a bit dark tho

http://www.konradsson.net/waterwalk/waterwalk5.gif
--
Here you see the bottom level area, in the far you see the cool waterlift and the "bridge" which has access above so you can do some ramp-rjumping to fly up to the upper levels

As I said, mayor restructuring being done, but I'll keep the key areas/tricks

looking very promising :D

but perhaps make the space at the RA a bit bigger, as now u'd really bump into the opponent, not really making it an air fight :o

a theme I'm using to some extent for the level is "nasty pineapples" which I think will give some really fun demos in 1on1, basically the idea is to be able to serve upp grenades to the unsuspecting player, there's some small windtunnels just for pineapples and some vertical shafts in ceilings where you can lob grenades up into where they'll hopefully then drop on the chasing player :D

ahh man i wanted to make a map like that hehe

Hydrowalk?

Id much more prefer lavawalk. Its really better to never rage the Volcano god with such names.

Pyrowalk?

Magmawalk

you already have dm4 for lavawalk, the volcano god should be more than happy with the sacrifices that map is capable of.

hahahaha!

nice

lol. esr has some really funny comments today.

Excellent work on Waterwalk, Preacher. I'm very much looking forward to playing it, and hopefully it will turn out to be the final piece in "the big five" of tournament maps.

Aerowalk
Waterwalk
DM2
DM4
DM6

I don't know if you remember me mailing you about this map quite some time ago now, Preacher, but I'm still very glad to hear that you've decided to have another go with it.

I agree that putting out a beta version would be the best idea if you're looking for constructive feedback, or at least have some people who's familiar with the arts of trickjumping take a run-around or two at the map before release. I, for one, wouldn't mind doing it. ;)

Like netrex for e.g. pointed out, the map looks promising from a rampjump perspective, and that was the only feature I missed out a bit on Aerowalk (which I still consider being by far the best duelmap ever).

Just like Drugs said, I too will be playing it if it's just half as good as Aerowalk. After all, not matter how great it is, I don't think that we need another Aerowalk, but a good alternative, and this might just be it.

One thing I'm a bit worried about is that I've been out of the loop with qw for a while and gameplay seems to have progressed alot, is there any new tricks and stuff I should be aware of? Should I put in some long corridors for bunnyhopping? :)

It depends on what you mean by corridors. Imo a map should have a good mix of open/less open areas. Make too much narrow corridors and you will have dm4 spam-o-rama. Make the map too open and the shaft will be overpowered. It's all in the balance.

As for the trick part, I can't really tell how well the map would do until I've tried it a bit.

My personal view has always been that pure corridors and rooms are something that should be avoided, since the more integrated and organic an layout is the more interesting gameplay is. On the other hand, having a "running" corridor with some kind of more powerful item that is offset by being somewhat timeconsuming to get to might be an interesting concept, then again, perhaps not :)

what do people think of rf2?...I think it seems like a very cool map and could me good for tournament play

RF2 rox

Being a fan of fast gameplay and trickjumping I think a good map should feature these aspects\features:

* Ramp\Slide jumps
* Areas that only can be reached either by rjumping or doing a perfect bunnyhop
* The ability to move around the map unnoticed (stealth) unless you use teleporters,wind tunnels, pick up items or use elevators\doors. This makes the map just as good for fast paced games as to serious and tactical games.
* One thing I liked about aerowalk was the fact that I could reach any part of the map in the matter of seconds. So for me a good duel map shouldn't be too big, or atleast have many routes through the map.
* RA-Spawns is a nice bonus for a newly spawned player. Though being lucky enough to spawn RA shouldn't render the other player useless in combat, he should have a place to retreat.
* Lots of teleports :) Makes the map harder to master and therefore people most likely won't get tired of playing it.
* Aerowalk had quite many healthpacks which made it easy to play defensive aswell, atleast when you were pressured or simply outaimed by a good shafting player. Also, having healthpacks on routes where people use rjumps to gain speed is something I like.

That's it for now :)

If you want to create blazing fast gameplay, you could try brushing invisible slopes / inclines overtop of steps / stairs. This would allow slope jumping / bunny hopping up inclined areas, as you are no doubt aware that bunny hopping up stairs in quakeworld does not work. This could possibly make the map extremely fast, as there would be no stair obstacles to get in the way of bunny hopping cycles.

Stupid god damn stairs from mega to low RL on aerowalk. SO ANNOYING!

raged

I love aerowalk, it's my favourite duel map and perhaps interestingly my second favourite 2on2 map. 2on2 in aerowalk has been aided by the ktpro mod adding a quad to it near the gl. I was wondering what other players think of aerowalk as a 2on2 map and if preacher will be choosing a similar spot for quad in waterwalk.

bump:)

jesus would own at this map

XDDD

I can't describe how happy I am to hear that Waterwalk is still going to be released! I'm sure most Quake players will agree if I say that Aerowalk is one of the best custom made deathmatch maps the "competitive" Quake community has ever seen (I intentionally didn't say QW community as Aerowalk has successfully been ported and used for Q2/Q3/CPM duels, as well). I love how it feels, I love how it looks. I still think Waterwalk should end up in something different than just a modified Aerowalk...

Long corridors: One thing I love about DM2 is that during a duel it can deliver quite a few moments of silence which can be very thrilling. Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about camping RA/MH/whatever but about the parts where there's no confrontation between both players for quite some seconds because they're "far away" from each other. You don't have these moments on DM4, nor do they appear in Aerowalk matches as both maps are very fast paced. I think this is mainly due to the reason that these maps don't have any long corridors that actually separate different areas.

Invisible inclines overtop of stairs: Same here. I agree that stairs can often be extremely annoying but they force you to reduce your speed which can result in what I've described above and they also make a map somewhat harder to handle as you have to remeber where to stop your mad bunnyhops so you don't get stuck (which is a good thing in my oppinion). [Besides it would feel/look rather strange to jump up an invisible ramp, wouldn't it?]

Ramps: Don't abuse this feature. Too much ramps can result in many failed attempts to rampjump which again results in an uncoordinated looking movement. Example: Park, High Park. (I still like these maps very much.)

Lots of medkits: I agree with what Drugs-Bunny said about Aerowalk here. Also with the part about medkits that can be picked up while rocketjumping.

Lots of teleporters: Not good. We already have enough teleporters on DM4 and Aerowalk. :P

Pineapple windtunnels: Sounds neat! I think Aerowalk's "wind lift" and its small windows between GL and YA aloow for some leet grenade frags. (Some may find these too luck dependant, though.)

Just my two cents. Good luck, Preacher!

Any progress in the last month?

Yup, I know have the basic layout pretty much figured out: I ended up scrapping much of the old layout and just re-using some parts. The idea behind the new layout is to try and make a good 4+ tier layout, not easy but fun if I manage to pull it off.

Work has come between though so I'm a bit behind, it's doubtful if I'll manage a beta in december, sorry

Hey people :)
Preacher are you still worikng on the map ?? i can't wait to play it :)

Any news? :e

still alive?

1soj for perfect waterwalks

need gores :l plz

i wonder if this was abandoned.. hmm.. :(

Preacher Last Login: 21 Sep 2006

finally, a thread worth bumping

But you did it wrong : <

So is he really dead like someone said?

Update plix!

Dam it looks nice :D Hopefully it will get finnished! \o/

Preacher:
Last Login: 21 Sep 2006

yeah know :( but gotta be optimistic :D

;)

hubster also let me down by never finishing the q4 remake of aerowalk :/

I can haz waterwalk?

No.

<3

I can giv u waterboard.

You might haz a zombie record

GIEF!!

I
HATE
YOU
.

<3

Did anyone save a copy they'd be willing to give to me?

Bump. Any chance we can get a copy? Might port it to Reflex/CPM for fun...

Preacher give us this map.

2024 bump Preacher release the damn map!

Lol you still trying... I gave up after some QW folks told me waterwalk was very flawed and no one wanted to play it (hence why preacher abandoned it).

Mostly just curious.