As an QL and QW player I can really say that the skill level in QW is much higher simply because QW has been around longer and players have had more time to practice.

But I suppose for talented QL players QW shouldn't have too steep learning curve.

I'll be in for sure, and I hope other QL players join to see how you're supposed to aim ( winning lightning gun duels against aimbots anyone? 8)

I agree that the skill level is much higher in QW.

Including Aerowalk and Blood Run may be a mistake as the QW players will really dominate the QL players even though they have these maps in QL.... however I am hoping that on the remaining 3 maps the QL players map knowledge will level the playing field

I agree that the skill level is much higher in QW.

it’s amazing how deluded some ppl (especially from small communities) can be

I respect qw and the other quakes, but come on … get real

Like this community?

sc, quake and fighting games aren't directly comparable.

with that issue set aside, when looking at VODs it's obvious that QL top players are on a whole different level than their QW and other fps games counterparts.

The reason is that while both games have been played for ages (96 and 99), Quake3, Painkiller, Quake4 and Quake Live were played competitively, including major LANs with thousands of dollars on the line for more than a decade; also considering that almost every single top Q3 player plays QL.

There's a huge difference between just playing the game than making a living out of it, and that's why no QW player accomplished anything in Painkiller, a game in which they had a major advantage but q3 players dominated anyways.
So they did in quake4 and quake live. and even to this day you don't see many great players from other games in QL (qw, q2, cpm, warsow, cs, cod, bf, etc.) when it's very easy to pick up and there's the motivation to at least try it since people are still playing it massively (17 players in old quake games and clones, against at least 67,000 active CA players according to qlranks).

when looking at VODs it's obvious that QL top players are on a whole different level than their QW and other fps games counterparts.

You're either speaking with a ton of bias, or you haven't seen the top QW players. I'm pretty sure that you're one of the first to suggest that QL is at a higher level than QW.

Quake3, Painkiller, Quake4 and Quake Live were played competitively, including major LANs with thousands of dollars on the line for more than a decade

This has nothing to do with skill.

There's a huge difference between just playing the game than making a living out of it,

The only Quake player to make a living out of the series has been Thresh.

and that's why no QW player accomplished anything in Painkiller

PK is closer to CPM than it is to QW. The game also only had a handful of players, and a single tournament.

a game in which they had a major advantage but q3 players dominated anyways.

Vo0 is a CPM player.

I would argue that Q3/QL have and had larger player bases, more large tournaments and are hence more competitive. I would be very surprised if the QW scene has more 'skill', but I admit I haven't followed the game at all.

This is all meant to be a bit of fun and just to see if QL players would be interested as we have been seeing new QL players appear in QW.

Competitive gameplay comes down to learning 2 things, game knowledge + map knowledge.

This is an idea for a potential fun tournament where players from multiple games (QW, Q3 and QL) can all play and have part of the competitive knowledge required to compete. It is not like we are suggesting to come and compete in a QW tournament on QW-only maps (dm2, dm4, dm6) and expect you to win.

Yeah I'm not trying to shit on the idea or Quakeworld, I was just commenting on the claim QW has more skilled players. I think more interaction between DM game communities would be a good thing.

The thing about out-aiming aimbots is that nobody cares about aimbots in QW since best players in QW can out-aim aimbots anyway. Only time I've met cheating in QW was 5 years ago when this one guy participated 4on4 turney with aimbot, nobody noticed it for a while since ppl have great aim anyways.

Here's good example of good QW LG.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN8D0-f1VqY

Guy is real and not using any aimbot.

And to be honest, I said "QW is more skilled" only to get you guys on your feet. Lets meet on Campgrounds and see who's got the best aim?-)

LoL I never played qw but I doubt you call that dodging what the other guy is doing, right?

You either have to be incredibly dumb or you think people here are.

Linking a man vs bot match, as a "good example of good QW LG"?
...Seriously?

"Guy is real and not using any aimbot. "
SERIOUSLY?

Please, don't act like such an imbecile and display some common sense next time.

I don't think you're stupid by any means! Quite opposite I thought you'd see straight away how hard is it to get 55% lg in QW.

There is a leagues in QW for LG duels vs bots and it's about who gets the best lg% & frags, so that's why there's a demo of a lg-duel against a bot.

didn't think I'll have to explain myself, but anyway:

1.- ofc I have seen lots of VODs from both games. The thing is my opinion is based not on the games themselves, but on the players.

2.- obviously it doesn't have to do with skill, but money/events attracts players, keeps current top players playing (and watching GTV), and makes them take it seriously. All 3 mean a higher skill ceiling after a couple of years. The key point of these 2 posts is that q3 players had more competition.

3.- it was a simplification, but it's the same concept. Playing for money, fame and free travelling means taking it seriously, especially considering that there were competitors with the same idea, which results in getting better at it individually and the overall community improves, not only the very best but naturally every player of the game as well.


4.- QW doesn't have a lot of players; moreover you can say it's only active in some parts of Europe. With that said, it's obvious that some QW players would want to try QL and other fps games, especially with money involved in them, but no QW player is notorious on them.

PK is just an specific example in which you relied in that Vo0 was mostly known as a CPM player. The cpl PK world tour was easily the fps tournament in which more money was involved, not only in total prize money of all stops (since you can quote some specific cases which exceed the $250,000 prize of the final stop) but also considering that it was played all over the world, lots of sponsors and so on. It was a very attractive game for top fps players, but in the end it was dominated by Q3 players. Not QW, not Q2, Quake3.
I can't talk for Vo0 (he can join this thread if he wants to) but CPM is a lot closer to Q3 than it is to QW or Q2. Also he obviously played q3 before becoming a top cpm player, and he always kept playing Q3 duels anyway. In the end that's just an offtopic since he isn't a QW player.
It's clearer with other players though: Fatality, Stermy, zyz, gellehsak, ztrider, sakh and zaccubus all were notorious q3 players. And I'm not throwing random names here: those were #1, #2, #3 and #4 places of all the world tour stops.

The same happened with other attractive games for QW players, in which they should have stomped but didn't. Q3 was massive at some point, Q4 had a lot of events, QL is the only remaining active fps game globally:
Where are them? why didn't them stomp everyone? why did q3 players dominated in all those games and not a single active QW player won anything?


I also use this opportunity to ask old school known players to join this thread, such as voo, purri, damiah and others. And if a top qw player wants to participate, please create an ESR account.

1.- ofc I have seen lots of VODs from both games. The thing is my opinion is based not on the games themselves, but on the players.

I was specifically talking about the players. If you watch a high end QW match, you can see just how adept QW players are.

2.- obviously it doesn't have to do with skill, but money/events attracts players, keeps current top players playing and makes them take it seriously. All 3 mean a higher skill ceiling after a couple of years.

This is assuming that the game has a higher skill ceiling, and that you need events in order to play the game.

3.- it was a simplification, but it's the same concept. Playing for money, fame and free travelling means taking it seriously, especially considering that there were competitors with the same idea, which results in getting better at it individually and the overall community improves.

This has nothing to do with the actual skill cap, or even the relative skill of players.

4.- QW doesn't have a lot of players; moreover you can say it's only active in some parts of Europe. With that said, it's obvious that some QW players would want to try QL and other fps games, especially with money involved in them, but no QW player is notorious on them.

It doesn't need a lot of players to have a high skill cap - it needs any players that play the game consistently, with proper training. QW players wouldn't want to try QL because it ISN'T QW. They are two very different games. No QL player is notorious in CS, so is CS more skilled?

t was a very attractive game for top fps players, but in the end it was dominated by Q3 players. Not QW, not Q2, Quake3.

It wasn't attractive, which is the entire reason for the "17 players" meme. It was dominated by a CPM player, who I believe has a history in QW. PK is between CPM and QW, while CPM is between QW and Q3.

The same happened with other attractive games for QW players, in which they should have stomped but didn't.

None of them have been attractive, obviously. They're not going to stomp in a game that they aren't going to play. Just because a game has a tournament, it doesn't mean that a QW player wants to play it. If people were just playing for money and tournaments, they really have no business playing anything but Starcraft.

you didn't contradict anything with hard facts or anything logical really, but I'm not going to make this an endless and pointless discussion, at least if I'm the only one defending this position.
My 2 posts are pretty clear so I'd just repeat what I said, providing more links but not bringing anything new to the subject and it'll end being a sc v.quake argument like it always does with you.

I know what happened with Jamerio when he decided to spend his "5 posts a day" with personal attacks against you, which ended in you searching all the posts he made here on ESR and on the interwebz, and in the end internet arguments are always "won", or rather the last post made, by the guy who spends more time on them.

I'll repeat what I said in one of those e-arguments I had with demiurge: we both know what we are talking about and all, but this is an issue of opinion, and because it is very specific it needs to have the impressions of the very top tier players of both games, especially from those that played QW when it started and that also happened to be at the very top at that moment (as I said, it's a whole different thing to just play than to win money at it).
I know they read the site anyway.

it'll end being a sc v.quake argument like it always does with you.

The only time I even brought up SC was to point out that it was the only viable option for someone who would be playing just for money/tournaments, which is what you suggested that a QW player would do for QL.

and in the end internet arguments are always "won", or rather the last post made, by the guy who spends more time on them

None of these have to do with an argument, and it can be a discussion if you can keep from dipping into personal insults like this.

we both know what we are talking about and all, but this is an issue of opinion

I agree that it is an opinion, but you seem to be in the minority with your opinion. I didn't say that you were wrong, but I pointed out why your arguments didn't support your opinion. If you don't want to defend your arguments, you don't have to write out a long post why you don't want to, you can just leave the post alone. The only reason for such a post is to duck out, without making it look like you don't have an argument.

my ego kicked in so I posted that to not lose by default.

Now my opinion represents the majority btw. Actually your opinion is only shared with the OP, and we can all agree he's a noob by reading his other posts123456, and with the guy who started this discussion.

You can argue with everyone else if you want, or join the discussion about the q3 maps in qw pseudo advantage and the ulterior motives the OP has with organizing this tournament. Have fun.

Ulterior motives? Like the Quake community pushing itself into TL? Honestly, this is pretty harmless, as it's even the same series, and genre.

The opinion on this site has always been in favor of QW, and you are the first memorable person to suggest otherwise.

the favor in qw has always been for the tactical aspect of the game and perceived superiority of strategy and teamplay and that it is technically less demanding. some qw players that i talked with when i last played qw described ql as too aim dependant, ie. technically more demanding, excactly the very opposite of what you're saying.

Skill is all-encompassing, not any one particular thing.

i guess you need it spelled out for you

the general opinion has always been that qw has superior teamplay/tactics/strategy/"brain" side of the game, while ql is technically more demanding. the general opinion hasnt been that qw is more skillful in every aspect

i would even go as far as to argue if the general opinion is truly in favor of qw in the listed categories, to me its more like the perceived general opinion caused by a few posters, but thats a completely different discussion

to me its more like the perceived general opinion

Reread my posts.

Probably because QW has such a stronger emphasis on movement and RL, whereas QL is very much rail/lg/hitscan dependent. Plus, with the lack of aircontrol and therefore lesser movement skills, aim becomes even more paramount because of how little flexibility you have compared to QW.

So the only reason anyone would ever get good at something is for money? Is that what you are saying? No one could ever get good at something for the love of it?

So you're saying money never has any impact on motivation? Nobody has ever tried harder or practiced more because there's money on the line?

No, you're not saying that, obviously. It's just as much of a strawman as your supposed paraphrase of Avenger. :>

You are right, I am not saying that.

Do you see my point though? You read a few sentences that basically said 'having a lot of tournaments with significant money on the line leads to more serious competition, which leads to more skilful play at the top level' and responded to it as if it had said 'money is the only reason anyone gets good at anything'.

PS: I have a lot of respect for QW, and I can understand why you might be feeling pretty defensive by now. But sometimes I can't help but respond to comments that make no sense :p

QW tournaments involved money up until 2010 (22,500 SEK at QHLAN).

Money can increase someone's motivation, so can the love of the game. The third reason is to impress women.... the main reason men strive to do things.

That's the key to QW's competitive scene: the chicks!

Thats right!

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/reloadi98.jpg/

this

everything you said and more. I cba to write all these myself, because is painful stating and arguing the obvious. You did a good job nonetheless.

I see you have taken my comment out of context which was in relation to the comment above it which has the full context. Nice job.

What's this about out-aiming aimbots?

The skill level involved in throwing rocks is much higher simply because there has always been rocks lying around and people have been throwing these for a very long time and those who throw these rocks have had much more timo to practice.

Sounds sweet

-darff

All maps are available on the following server in QuakeWorld: amsterdam.besmella.com:27501

All except "q3dm13qw" are also available on qw.quakephil.com ports (see http://qw.quakephil.com and http://qw.quakephil.com/maps)

If you remind me on IRC, I can upload the 1 missing map as well.

Btw, it is really nice to see an opportunity for shrine to get played!

Is it like those recent qw rookie tourneys or will the best qw players participate?

Anyone will be able to participate.

i wouldn't be interested in playing a game even more dead than ql just cause it has it's mappool
that said, i might play

stfu :D

Really always felt like the weapons in QW are just fucking ridiculous. Unpopular opinion, but it's mine.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. My opinion is that you are wrong :)

lol … funny misleading title

I don’t thing that an UT player, inexperienced in ql, can win a ql player in dm6, just because they have dm6 in UT too.

This description would had been more accurate:

ql-qw challenge
can a ql players win a qw player in his own game? If u r up to the challenge, don’t hesitate and sign up.

InDepther - The thing about the map pool in this tournament is that these QL maps, apart from Aerowalk and Blood Run, are not played in QW so QL players will have a huge advantage with map knowledge.

unless fox signs up all ql players will get smashed 30 to 0. Even with ql maps, the maps wouldnt be played in the same way in qw as they are in ql due to different weapons and game physics. So i think the qw players will have all the advantage.

Nevertheless, a fun idea although i suspect the true motivation behind this initiative is to lure some weak minded ql players to the dark side..

Who is fox?

Definitely on Aerowalk and Blood Run I would imagine that the QL players would get smashed but a tactically smart QL player should be able to give QW players a good match up on the other maps.

The reasoning may be partially correct. There have been a few QL players migrating over to QW already.

Ye you might be right dunno, last time i played qw was 12 years ago..
fox is a retired q3/q4/ql player who mainly played vq3 but he is very good in cpm aswell, and decent in qw and q2 also. He nicked fojji at some point, i know he did when he played the qcon 07 final where all quake games was played so he might have nicked as fojji when practising qw.

"Who is fox?"

Get the fuck outta here

Clearly I don't follow tournaments of games I don't play competitively.

Tell me, do you know who Milton, Rikoll and Reppie are?

Yes, and I have never followed Quakeworld :)

Btw here is a demo from fox playing qw. At this stage he had played qw for 2 weeks.

http://challenge-tv.com/demos/view/34131

Really impressive game by fojji/fox, I remember seeing also some other impressive performances by some Q2/Q3/Q4 gamers in QW. It's actually really nice to see really good gamers showing their skills in QW since you can really see that they don't have that history in QW since their movement/aim/strategies are really fresh. Gotta love Fox's style to use shaft in QW :-)

I think they got lots of experienced QW players by suprise with their fresh styles/strategies.

yea but learning the maps takes a lot less time than learning the dynamics of qw gameplay. trust me i just started playing qw after being a q3 player for 4-5 years.

I disagree, maps are everything. You get a high-skilled player on a map he doesnt know vs a moderately-skilled player on a map he knows inside out and the moderately-skilled player would win.

I disagree, maps are everything

omg u toped yourself (thought it was impossible)

Let cooller play a map 10-20 times and he is able to win 99% of opposition. He can even win most ppl on his first game.

… and it is not just saying… he has proven that

ps: pls don't ask who cooller is

Curious, is your 1st language english? You seem to be missing a lot of points made and taking peoples comments out of context and completely miss the points being made.

You quote one small part of my post: "I disagree, maps are everything"

and completely miss the punchline: "high-skilled player on a map he doesnt know vs a moderately-skilled player on a map he knows inside out"

Clearly if cooler was to play a map 10-20 times it would no longer be a map that he doesn't know?

Is yours? He's flagged up the only substantional part of your post completely in context. Who in their right mind thinks a Quaker of any variant has no knowledge of dm6? When you consider that the rest of your post is just fluff...

cooler?

-> it's the run ql kids!

ur opinion is urs obviously. but what im saying simply is that for someone who has never played qw the difference in gameplay is really huge. getting used to the way the rocket splash works and the lg delay and the lack of other weapons, along with the vast difference in sound system and the lack of hitbeeps. its very very disorienting. and im guessing you have the same sort of ammo system thats normal in qw even tho the maps are ported from q3.

i guess we'll just wait and see what happens. but i think you're dead wrong.

I've actually done this myself (beat a better player because I knew the map better) many times

sign me in!

Probably a stupid question, but is there some form of guide to running QW on win7? Last time I tried it wouldn't fucking work and I couldn't even get it installed. Would be really nice to play this though I played a bit of QW on my old pc and it's so much more fun than QL :)

Owze - nQuake has pretty much everything you need. www.nquake.com

If you need any help head to the www.quakeworld.nu/forum and go to the rookies section. There is heaps of people who can help you out.

Cheers I'll look into it when I get on my pc next :)

Football VS Hockey tourney

A few Football players are currently putting together the idea of a 11 on 11 tourney targeted at Football vs Hockey players.

The games will be played with Football rules. However, football has rectangular field as well as hockey.

Hey, I'm thinking about putting together a moronic analogy tournament... Guess what, you just won!

Congratulations.

Well, i wasn't trying to say that its bad tournament - nice idea, but i think that QL players won't have chances instead htey are QW players too. At least it seems to me.

No QW player (in QW) plays campgrounds, vertical vengence and lost world. QL players would have all the strategy advantages over QW players on these maps. If QL players are as good as they say they are I'm sure they will have a chance.

This is meant to be a fun experiment... If QL players get completely destroyed even on the maps that QW players don't know then this was a failed experiment and QL players still get experience in the harshness of QW. .... If QL players do very well then it was a great idea bringing 2 (or 3 counting Q3) games together on an even playing field.

I like the idea, but don't pretend that this is an even playing field. The QW have a massive advantage. Why don't you do something similar by adding popular Quakeworld maps to Quake3 and have the mplay there as well?

lol idd

I don't make the maps, but someone else has already gone to the trouble of converting/recreating heaps of q2,q3,ql and cpma maps for QW so why not utilise them?

have u any clue what map experience means?

These ql players that u say, have 0 map experience on these maps. All their experience and strategy is with the ql physics and weapons. Map experience is not knowing the structure of the map. It is so much more than this. Like the angles from where to use specific weapons (which are different), where to use which weapon (weapons are different), how much time it gets to go from A to B, the spawns and the spawn system and many more.

why I even reply :(

The spawns and item layout are designed to be as close to the QL version as possible.

Blood Run is even changed to add a second YA and move the MH the same as QL

Campgrounds swaps an LG for a RG

I'll upgrade his analogy... it's like you're expecting a tennis player to be fantastic at and beat a badminton player at badminton because they're playing on an outside court.

Both have similar gameplay, involve a racket and a court and both (likely) share the same roots. And sure given time the tennis player would probably pick up and be competent as they've already some of the core skills - but they're completely different games and if the skill level is even average it'll take time to learn.

Plus the gameplay of the maps will be completely different on each game down to the physics & the ability to do / not do certain jumps / moves / shots etc. It's only relevant if you're talking two players of a similar skill level having played a similar length of time.

If you want qw vs ql it has to be a medley on both games with a mixture of maps ported across both platforms. The decider could be played on q4 / q2.

In fact that's a much better idea. Quake Medley series involving the top 3 from each series (qw, q2, ql, cpm & q4). Bonus points for frag magin on your opponents home game. Do it as a round robin with the top 2 players going into a final involving all the games.

That'd give you 48 tournament matches & 1 final.

I'd happily help / support such a tourney <:O)

This is the kind of thing I was getting at with my post above, that would be a really entertaining tournament.

the only thing i like about QW is the gritty feel and atmosphere

Quake Live players lose in Quake World. Quake World players lose in Quake Live. Everyone loses. Sounds boring.

Sounds like personal experience...

No. It's fact deduced from logic. Personally, I would never go back to playing the first Quake since it's 2012.

you're coming across as one of those people i have to add to my ignore list

This is kinda a joke considering both aerowalk and ztn are qw maps, ztn even being pld competitvely afaik last time i checked ...

So it really is just a way for qw ppl to humiliate ql players

Yes Aerowalk and Blood Run are played competitively in QW. The Blood Run version that would be used in this tourney is modified to reflect the Q3/QL item layout (second YA, moved health and moved MH alcove)

when u want to challenge someone, dont be a pussy and ask to play on ur own turf. who the fuck plays QW anyway

Bloody hell. You assholes don't want to play, then don't fucking play. The guy proposes a simple tourney with simple rules, and, though his perception of what is relevant in gameplay transition between QL and QW might be a bit stupid, nobody is forcing anyone to participate. This site is seriously going to shit if initiatives like this are getting shut down....

More like you fail to see ulterior motives. Try again later.

Even if there were ulterior motives here, how would they affect the tourney itself? Would anything change if it was indeed a scheme hatched by some evil QW mastermind to lure in and rape QL players? It's laid out pretty damn clear, you know what the deal is and what you're getting yourself into if you sign up. How fucking hard can this be to grasp?

You'll fit in. +1 player for QW. The other twelve are ecstatic.

I seriously don't get guys like you. Being cynical is one thing, being a dick for no reason at all is something else entirely. :/

Why so serious?

Actually it was to lure in QL players to play QW in the hope they enjoy it. Having familiar maps would make a transition easier

NO I BET YOU HAVE A SUPER SIKRIT PLAN TO RAPE QL NOOBS AND THEN LAUGH AT THEM AND LAUGH AND MOCK AND BE A COMPLETE KNOB ABOUT BEATING THEM WITH YOUR QUAKEWORLD BUDDIES YOULL BEAT PEOPLE AND THEN GIGGLE OVER TEAMSPEAK OR SOMETHING WHILE DRINKING TEA HOLDING THE CUP WITH YOUR PINKY UP AND CURLING YOUR MUSTACHE AND STROKING THE CAT SLEEPING ON YOUR LAP OR MAYBE A POODLE I DONT KNOW WHAT KIND OF PETS DO YOU LIKE BUT I BET ITS A NASTY NASTY ANIMAL LIKE YOURSELF YOU ARE ALL EVIL MEN AND I HATE YOU WITH THE POWER OF ONE THOUSAND RAGING POLES

OK you got me!

sounds like the cpm community

:']]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

i dont see the horrible motives. maybe im too trusting and see this as fun thing between the communities

I couldn't agree more with you!

My post ealier about QW players being more skilled was sort of a joke and i'm really sad to see people are so serious about this. I suppose we all have our in-game heroes and strike down everybody who thinks differently :-)

If anybody want to feel my mad QW skils (lol, i suck even in qw) in QL just give me a word 8-)

Sure, where can I find you on irc? I'm curious "to see how you're supposed to aim".

That is exactly what it is meant to be, a bit of fun. InDepther then took things out of context and started flaming!

This is only an idea and i only posted to see if QL players would be interested.

so opinions are flaming now

blame indepther

i mean, i would love the chance to play more qw against people who i stand a chance to frag. i've loved the games ive played, but i havent met any qw players yet ||||-]

Where in the world are you located? There are many active servers in Europe: UK, NL, DE, DK, SE, FI, RU, FR etc and also some in the USA

haaaaa sweden, but that not the point :DD if i connect to a random pub i have 99% chance running in to somebody with 10 years of experience, and i dont have it in me to learn another game, especially if they average player so insanely much better than me at it.

the op is the only dick here, nobody else

who said that he is against this or any qw tournament? I have many posts in this thread and none says that. I just argue the supposed fair challenge, like most of the so called dicks by you.

Imo u were unfair and harsh to everybody here. Even though his views are a bit stupid like YOU said, nobody called him a retard or something. ESR is famous for being harsh, but this thread is definitely an exception.

see ur nice guy and how nicely the other guy replied to him, even though he was provoked

This whole thing only flamed up as you continually took posts out of context and began raging before reading all the points.

u could just name it qw in ql maps tourney, which is exactly what it is (u can still edit it btw).

instead u insisted that it is a fair challenge, kept saying that the skill in qw is higher, flaming and provoking ppl

nice initiative, but bad attitude imo. If u want more ppl from ql to play qw, you must be nicer. Otherwise, u defeat the purpose.

Btw, about QW players not accomplishing anything:

does SK-gaming ring a bell? ( #2nd in CS)

or Paragon? (#1 in WoW)

those cases are not comparable since those are either too old, which means that every experienced player had a QW or Q2 background (actually SK started as a QW clan), or they weren't playing QW at the time.

I once was a QW player myself, but that doesn't mean that my future achievements will be a consequence of that. It only applies to current players that are active in the scene, or were at the time when they accomplished something in other games or activities.
For example czm and jibo got their doctorates when they were attending to international LANs, or when bulat could pay his first internet connection bill,

LOL and now the tantrum. Grow up mate.

InDepther told me to edit the original post, so I did :)

lol kindergarten for adults... my 2 year old niece acts more mature

forever out of context (u can change ur nick to that too). If u wanted to edit something, then u could just change the title to "qw in ql maps tourney" and then to stop acting like a kid.

Have you noticed how all of my other posts, apart from the ones you are involved with are constructive and have a purpose of getting some games played? Do you see me acting immature?

Tell me, did you once even answer the question in the OP? Would you be interested in playing in something like this... which was the whole point of the forum article, not to debate the undebatable. There is a name for people like you. Sometimes better explained by a picture:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RRRpZE314eQ/TkycUFS...l+face.jpg

My ESR inbox has been flooded with IMs

"such a great idea, run the comp, i will play"
"ignore the trolls, keep up the good work"
"let me know where i can sign up"

Wow, really? So if there were some people that were looking forward to this but didn't reply to the thread, you're canceling anyways just because of a handful of people that respond to every single thread with whatever comes to mind because they're just dying for people to hear their opinions? Ok then...

If you are interested in something like this, send me an iM.

Thanks for the feedback!

I would have loved to play in this as I played both qw and q3 and am mid upper skill in both. However I'm in South Africa, so fail :(

What sort of ping do you get to Europe? QuakeWorld has an antilag feature on many servers which makes it playable on surprisingly high pings. Anything under 100ms is definitely playable.

The map pool would really need to be reviewed as the QW versions of Lost World, Campgrounds and Vertical Vengeance really don't play very well. In fact I did some test games on them last night with a QL player.

Lost World - This was the map I had previously had the most hope for. The weapons and layout are identical in both QW and QL.... GL+RL+LG however the flow of the game wasn't the same. Some of the jumps that are possible.

Campgrounds - Without rail, this map is just too big. If this was proportionally smaller it would make a difference. Maybe we should revisit testing using the remake map 'q3dm6ish' by Aardappel.

Vertical Vengeance - This was a strange one. There is a definite lack of ammo on this recreation: a single rocket ammo pack and strangely all 4 cells for the lightning gun (which replaces Railgun) are in the same spot. We found we were running around with no ammo a lot. The Super-Nailgun makes a good substitute for Plasma as a bit of a spam gun.

To UK servers I get about 250 ping. This is okish for qw but not for quakelive. Tbh I really wouldn't be able to do anything in qw either as I'm fairly agressive, and defensive play doesn't suite me.

With regards to the maps, the quakelive players should just learn some qw maps. dm6 and dm2 are pretty easy to learn. The last time I played qw against anyone good was probably 4 or 5 years ago, after not playing for a very long time. I found that those 2 maps were the easiest to adjust to. dm6 is nice because it has "simple" strategy of holding the RA room. dm2 is nice because it's large and gives the players space.

Alternatively, you can alter the maps to correct the ammo. pt4 should be a great map for the rocket launcher.

If q3dm6 is too large, then you are doing it wrong. Even in ql with slower movement it's easy enough to play without rail. qw has faster movement and the rockets rock, I think it should work.

Of course, I haven't seen these maps myself, so I'm not sure how they play.

The problem with q3dm6 in QW is that without rail you can't do the long distance shots you can in QL.

Also the proportions of the map to the QW player make it bigger (the QW guy is smaller than the QL guy). For example dropping down from Railgun (LG in QW) to the platform below actually breaks your ankles as it is such a large drop (it doesnt in QL).

In reverse to the same platform it is an easy RJ up to Railgun in QL but it is in comparison a much higher RJ.

Ah I see, so everything seems bigger. Ok well you need a better remake then.

Alternatively you can try some cpm maps, I think a lot of guys will know cpm3a or cpm1a

q3dm6 was a conversion so it kept the q3 proportions which were too big for QW.

We have a lot of CPMA maps for QW already: cpm1a cpm3 and cpm5.

I believe cpm1a might be too large (as with other q3 maps) however cpm3 (which I have both a remake and a conversion) are pretty good and fun to play on.

cpm5 is actually a bit more interesting. This map was originally a QW map (called dimebox8) which had like 10 quads and 10 pents etc and only suitable for FFA. It was recreated in q3/cpma with a good 1on1 item layout and called cpm5. My old QW clanmate Povo-Hat (of povdmm4 fame) modified the original dimebox8 to match the cpm5 item layout and named it cpm5qw. I actually think this QW version is fun to play (and the map proportions are right as it is was originally for QW).

Maybe an idea would be to play with weapon stay on (if you guys don't already), it will make it easier for the ql guys. Weapon control and spawn frags is such a huge part of qw..

Yeah, we play that way already - Deathmatch mode 3.

(On the q3 maps in qw it has the unfortunate side effect of less ammo going around when you cant pick up the weapons again).

All I have to say about this thread is:

Remember when people played games to have some fun? I miss that.

I play QW for fun and occasionally QLCA and WarsoW.

Werd.

I agree. Competitive matches are fun to watch and are good for promotion, but outside of that I really would rather just relax and play Quake. The people over at Q3W are mostly casual players and don't worry about being competitive or winning money over games, which is a good thing imo.

I don't know the QW scene. I've played the game but a small amount, so a n00b must further embarrass himself...

The Quake 3 "scene" was more apt to find talent, even if QW is still going strong with some very experienced players.

I'd bet on Cooller, Cypher, Fatal1ty, Toxic, Rapha, Zero4 and other high level Quake 3 duelers to do just as well in the same amount of time as current high-standing champs in QW.

And if I lost that bet in some alternative reality, then I'd change my mind :)

(I love hypotheticals)

didn't they have that battle of the quakes tournament, where you had to play different quakes? who won that :D

1st Place: Sweden Johan "toxjq" Quick - $20,000
2nd Place: Sweden Magnus "fojji" Olsson - $12,500
3rd Place: United States Tim "Dahang" Fogarty - $7,500
4th Place: Sweden Mikael "Purri" Tarvainen
5th Place: United States Tim "naymlis" Bowes
6th Place: United States Chance "chance" Lacina
7th Place: United States Rafik "LoSt-CaUzE" Bryant
8th Place: Canada Tom "Griffin" Wall

Toxic won, becose he was lucky with picking games..

How do you get lucky with picking games? You pick which version of Quake rather than which map? How did it work?

I don't see any qw player there, lol.
tox, fox, chance and griffin are well known for being mostly q3 players. Q2 was represented by dahang, naymlis and purri, and lost cauze was more of a q4 guy considering his placings in tournaments, which was the game played atm. Actually he started playing more seriously in q3, like almost everyone else that's a known dueler, tdm or ctf fps player.

as for the question, these are the first links that came up in google.
http://www.gotfrag.com/quake/story/38893/.
http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/12333

I remember I wanted purri to win that.

The top 4 all played q2>q3>q4 (top 5 possibly?)

I am not sure if any of the guys that were decent at qw and q3 were there.

Who are z4 and czm.

The game (which version of Quake) they had to play was random, they rolled dice or picked from a hat or whatever. Everytime Toxic got into a tiebreaker he got Quake4 as the decider.

Basically whenever he needed it to stay alive he was lucky enough to get Quake4.

By editing your post you confirm the point of people who assumed that your attitude towards QL players isn't very good. Doesn't sound like your "joke" about QW players being superior was really meant like a joke now. Just saying.

I still think that this would be a good initiative if rules were fair. What about a cross-game tournament, like that recent QL + SC2 thing?

so what if it was meant a bit provocative?

then he should handle critical reactions better and don't act like a crybaby/troll

I am not confirming anything of the sort. I am running a QW tourney and was extending the rules to hopefully include some QL players as we get them in QW popping up from time to time. This is the single only reason for this forum post but people are failing to see that.

I genuinely believe the GAME QuakeWorld has a higher skill level roof than the game QuakeLive or Q3... not the players. Most FPS skills are transferable but QuakeWorld is less newbie friendly and has harder to learn moves so it means a higher skilled player is required. I was not making the comparison of person vs person and I refuse to debate this.

Thank you for your constructive feedback on a cross-game tournament. This was rejected when it was mentioned earlier in the thread. It's been done before and I have no interest in doing it. I am running a QW tourney to fill a gap between DuelMania seasons (www.duelmania.net).

I fail to see how I am acting like a cry baby. All the names being thrown around and heated discussions of this thread I completely avoided and replied to the constructive posts etc No one was replying for this post reason and trolling was going so I canned it. Simple.

The QW tourney will go head. I am planning a series of 1-day 1on1 tourneys, in QW on QW maps possibly once a month or once a fortnight. If they are successful I will run one on the maps discussed in this thread, maybe one on CPMA maps and one on the Q3 maps. Those people genuinely interested have contacted me via IM and I will either post here in the Q1 forum or contact them directly.

I was surprised to see this getting so messy here. After all the criticism wasn't that harsh and partly I agree with it (especially the part regarding map experience). Well and if you count the individual posters here I don't think that the negative voices outnumber the positive ones. That's why your "My question has been answered..." makes you sound like a dick now a bit imo. Haven't played qw for ages but I would join such a tourney just for fun, as long as I don't have to face some pro player(s).

Dirt, this is a little off topic but why in earth would anyone play QW over CPM? I guess one could ask the question about any two games, but these two games seem not be roughly in the same style but hardly interchangeable.

What does QW bring to the table that differentiates itself in your opinion?

I might have to give it a download again, and try it out. I've been watching some youtube vids and the walking speed is amazingly fast, and the rockets "seem" to be slower than I'm used to seeing, relative to player speed.

Also, a cross-game tournament is an awesome idea, but coin flips and all that bullshit need not apply.

QW, CPM and QL :)

I think you should stop addressing the skill thing entirely, its only derailing the thread. Even this post has stuff I feel like arguing about but i will refrain 8)
If you go ahead with it try and organise a stream, I'd definietely check it out.

You're the only person in this thread that's slagging people off. If you can't take critique don't step outside without your clothes on.

This is the single only reason for this forum post but people are failing to see that

Uh, maybe you should have called it a "QuakeWorld Tourney for QuakeLive Players" and not "QuakeLive vs QuakeWorld tourney".

it was me who joked about qw players being better, not dirtbox.

HAHAHA, FUNNY MAN

I'm interested in this tournament.

I think besides the maps, there is also the issue of missing railgun for QL players, as well as a different "look and feel" to aiming.

I think after a couple days of practice, a QL player can look forward to incredibly improving his QW aim. At this point, map knowledge will come into play.

edit: Also, I think QL (and Q3) players are superiour to QW in one important way. Yes, QW has a longer history based on sheer year numbers, but Q3-turned-QL players have a longer history of tournament participation and official games, simply because QW has had less of those.

Yes, QW has online tournaments and stuff every year, but nothing on the scale of LANs such as quakecon, eswc, wcg, wsvg, cpl, etc etc.

So I would not be so quick as to say one or another are more skilled, and even as a spectator I would be very interested in a clash between QL and QW players

You're right about the q3/ql players being more used to the feeling of competition, but most likely those players are the ones who wouldn't participate in a fun tournament like this. :(

Downloaded QW - config didn't save unless game is run as admin. DM4 and other maps can not be played, why? Movement feels odd and floaty. Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

Playing FFA on ZTN with eight bots was kind of hectic and fun.

You need the original pak1.pak from Quake 1 to play the id maps like dm4 iirc.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/2310/?snr=1_7_suggest__13

Yeah, I may have to buy it a third time.

I know I bought it at the ID Store once. Can't seem to fine any relevant emails. That will take some research.

And I know I had, and may still have, the game on DVD somewhere, but god knows where - some black box with a silver Q in the middle comes to mind?

I'll see if I can get interested again, and buy it.

I really can't put my finger on why it intrigues me at the moment. There's a chaotic frenzy-type element to the game that is kind of fun, but it certainly isn't the game a lot of people make it out to be.

Of course, I could be missing something.

I'd go with steam, so you never have to worry about finding it again. You just missed the winter sale, where it was like $2. =P

If you have purchased it already before, no reason you cant type pak1.pak on google an click pretty much the first thing that comes up.

Hi Zalu!

Just drop by at #qwrookie at quakenet, everybody there are more than willingly to help you. And if you've anything to ask just post at Quakeworld.nu forum, you can also find all the information in there.

You probably downloaded nQuake? If not that's the thing to download.

And yes, you need pak1.pak, too bad the 2,5 dollar offer for Quake expired in steam.

Thank you Pektopah. I'm usually a little slow at registering places.

I'm sure I'll poke my head around there soon, after I give QW some more time.

QW has like 5 useful assets. First kill pretty much decides a duel, as a denial game is easy to play at this point: RL, LG, RA, Mega, YA. GL is a good denial/covering wep, but of almost no use to the player out of control. It's just not balanced or as dynamic as Q3/QL.

That being said, a QW tourney would be a fun throw-back, and a lot of people remember it fondly as it was the first introduction to competitive FPS online. You are probably turning a lot of people off though with the comments about the skill ceiling. It might appear that way, because again, it is very very easy to control a handful of assets with very loose movement. Makes the games look very skewed and suggests the players are better than they are when really they are just playing sloppy denial.

Oh how I love Anonymous-people, they're always so culueless...

I have to agree with anonymous, first kill determines the winner of a QW duel.

megaman3, is that you?
yeah, it's you

hi im megaman3 posting in a 10 year old thread

Only a clueless individual posts a non-post rebuttal. Where exactly am I wrong? Weps being unbalanced in QW? Control easy in QW duel? Please elaborate. I know I have called you out, so now you will likely meet my points with baseless hyberpole...

Your 'call out' might be more effective if you actually used the reply function so he could see it.

Oh I can see it, but thanks obi.

I can only speak from my own experience, but I don't feel QW-Weapons being unbalanced, if anything the QL asset is unbalanced compared to QW. Getting control might be easy against weaker opponents but against someone who is on your skilllevel or above it it's as hard as in QL, because he can move and shoot exactly as good as you, then only thing you can do is outsmart him and thats pretty difficult concidering the gameplay of QW. Also if you have control in QW you can make 5-10 frags, no problem, but they don't weight as heavy as in QL, at some point your opponent will collect himself (by playing more sneaky or by pure luck) and win the control back, and then he can do the 5-10 frags as fast as you did. The first frag in a QW match doesn't decide much, appart from who can dictate the speed of the game for the next X-minutes, but at some point they all fall :).

But isn't luck the last thing you want in a game of skill?

You can't make a game that hasn't got at least a bit of luck, a sudden ping-spike can be concidered luck aswell. And speaking of luck QL got way more of it than QW does.

Explain how luck is more prevalent in QL than QW. I'm just curious. I wouldn't know, I have hardly played QW, even back in the days I hardly played it.

I also didn't mean to suggest luck could be entirely avoided.

Stairbug, Soundbugs, etc. There is quite some stuff that was eliminated in QW (not saying that QW doesn't have it's flaws but they are kind of less anoying).

Actually I'm enjoying QW probably more than any other FPS I've yet played.

I'm getting absolutely ass rocked, especially in TDM, but that never has bothered me.

I guess learning a new game, config whoring, getting all the setups and binds to be perfect, reconfiguring mouse etc... all that stuff is a pain in the ass though.

This made me think of shadowmaster155.

Again, way less assets in QW, 2 primary weps. It's easy. I love QW but people have moved on. Q3/QL has more variables and QW duelers don't like that. They like the easy lock game of QW and couldn't compete in Q3 and don't want to play QL because easy lock isn't a factor. Powerup denial is the game in Q3/QL, but you can't deny your opponent decent weps. This is what irritates hardcore QW'ers and why they don't play QL. They want to play brainless lock with 5 assets tops. Really hard with loose movement right? QL/Q3 has more restrictive movement, better weapon balance, and more assets. Even MG is a decent wep! For a fast game, all QW'ers whine and want a game with easy control...

And yes, you are a moron if you lose control in QW after getting best spawn/first frag.

Again, your QW is showing through. You think the weps in QL/Q3 are unbalanced because you can't lock down your opponents arsenal. A good player can still 'getcha' because you can't take the tools out of his hands. That is why QW'ers don't play QL, they dwell on dead QW servers rather than ALMOST dead QL servers. QW has easy lock down wins, QL doesn't unless you are a master or hacking.

QL:

MG: Good hitscan wep, minor damage. Still pretty good in the hands of someone that can aim.

SG: Devestating in closeup's, requires some manuevering to invite someone to a shotty fight.

LG: Awesome wep in anyones hands, nondefensive.

RL: Bread and butter. Good control with doorway cover and enemy bounces. Usually not a kill wep, just a control one. Plays denial and movement control.

RG: Pretty much good in all situations...except for reload.

QW:

LG: rocks if you have a sub 50 ping

RL: bread and butter and fun to use.

Everything else: Crap

You like to play a game with unbalanced weps where you can control the primary aspects easily. Why else wouldn't you play QL or Q3? Because you are frustrated that it isn't easily lockdowned...

Trying too hard to troll, mate.

.............

Attached Image: 91550-naI5R.jpeg (5KB)

I'm liking the discussion, this was the kind of stuff I was wondering about with QW.

I'm terrible at QuakeWorld and also live in NZ but would like to play in this tournament, even if the ping is a joke.

yes, only the LG and RL are any good in quake.

don't bother with those other weapons like the super nailgun which is by far one of the best weapons in fps history

Here's a better idea:

- Take only ZTN and Aerowalk

- Play them on both QW and QL

- Whoever wins most on both QW and QL = winner :D

intelligence/map awareness>>>movement>aim
aim is all about repetition and having a good setup(120hz, good net, good mice/keyboard, cfg, etc). you can play all you want on a crappy setup, you'll never out aim someone with a much better setup.
anybody can have great aim, not everybody will have
perfect map awareness.

since no games will get played, how bout deciding with your eyes instead







]