rockets look slow

movement looks a little slow, too :<

edit: anyways, i'm still very impressed
i'm sure everything will be fixed by the beta stage

It wouldn't be any slower (and if it is, that change won't last long). He was playing with a pretty low FOV during the stream, which might make things look a little slower.

can you still clip past walls? it was hard to tell, but it sort of seemed like you couldn't on the vod.

clipping = moving so fast you can touch the edge of a corner and not be slowed down. it's in ql/osp and i'm pretty sure it's in cpma as well.


i'm also curious about wallhugging. i hope that stays as well

I think nvc mentioned during his stream that wall-clipping wasn't currently in. I don't know if it was discussed in chat by the dev as to whether wall-clipping would be a feature.

You can't wall clip in Reflex and it's pretty unlikely we'll ever add it -- you either hit the wall or you don't.

Although wall clipping gives a nice cue that you're hopping the tightest possible line, it also does weird, glitchy things to the view (I don't think the netcode likes it much).

It didn't take me long to get used to not having it. Once I did, it made absolutely no difference.

This is Q3A CPMA with better graphics. Nothing new in fact :(

because core gameplay shouldn't be new.

but, features like matchmaking should be.

also... new engine is nothing new?

Quake with modern features on a modern engine is kind of what everybody wants, isn't it...?

Quake community doesn't have a clue what it wants!

That's why we don't worry too much about some of the hate in threads like this -- it's pretty obvious that the whole thing is unwinnable. People in the community certainly know what they want, but the community as a whole doesn't have any kind of clear agreement.

Some people want a direct CPMA clone, some want a direct VQ3 clone, some want a direct QL clone, some want something completely different to anything that has been released before.

So whatever we do, some fraction of players will hate our game without ever having played it.

Fortunately within the development team, we all know the game we want to make and are putting a lot of late nights in to making it happen. And it's going really well too. We're still having fun during all of our playtest sessions (which is unfortunately rare when you've been working on a game for a long time), we're getting a lot of support from the community and its all starting to come together.

Hopefully with all the new arena FPS in the works, there will be something for everyone to not hate.

If you do this:

- Accurate matchmaking
- Skill ceiling on par with or higher than Q3/QL
- Polished engine (no major netcode, fps, sound bugs etc)
- Modern interface for competitive play (rankings, stats, leagues, etc)

I will be very happy and probably leave QL for good.

I don't really care how different or not different it is from Quake as long as Quake skill transfers to the game.

Yeah, Spot on. Pretty much said it.
I think there's a huge deal of people who will gladly leave QL for good.
I'd personally rather see something new, rather than a direct copy of Q3. Surprise us! Just make sure it's good haha. (:

add a little q4(jumppad physics/shoot through portals)
add a little more qw(shotty, axe, more air control, backpack system)
add a little ql(35 second mega/125 spawn health)

CPM on steroids, that's what I'm hoping for
slower weapon switch and other things from ql, I want nothing to do with.






cheers


consider bringing back wall clipping, btw.

I was humming Mambo no 5 when I read this, fitting altenative lyrics.

"add a little ql(125 spawn health)"

Noup, direct rocket spawn kill is a must have!

125h+beastly rocket launcher+instant switch vs 100h+weak rl+slower switch.

give me the former any day of the week
i can compromise with starting health, armours, etc all day
i can't compromise with my combos

I really think its great what your doing. Great tools, good ideas, good pr, marketing, etc. You seem like a talented bunch. I'm sure I'll pick it up a bit, hopefully defrag in there? And it's commendable that you are sticking to your guns.

As a vq3er I envy the air control community to have such a honest and talented group working on a project like this, we have id. A name that used to be able to relied upon but now are a pale shadow of what they once were - the king of arena fps.

Instead of envying cpm players you could do like Hoony, Arqon or these guys did : get off your ass and make something happen.

Shh. Don't encourage people to compete with us.

(Seriously, it could be done though. Quake3 is GPL -- the right team could do incredible things with it)

difference is those guys have a skillset that I don't have. To obtain it, it would take many years doing it as a hobby and I have other shit on.

We'd love to help you but it would be a pretty big risk and not really in line with our vision for Reflex.

But who knows, maybe we'll help indirectly?

CPMA already contributed significantly to the direction of QuakeLive and Reflex could be the first real competition QL has ever had.

It's not like they couldn't just read all of the stuff I've talked about here and take it as a checklist of things to throw their superior development resources at.

If they do, throw us a few bucks on Kickstarter anyway because we've worked really hard on all of this ;)

I'm pretty sure the community as a whole just wants something successful.

Ideally, it's also not stupid in the way that the leaked update, UT movement, CS accuracy or hold-forward-to-go-fast is.

Isn't

It seems really familiar for some reason. I can't quite put my finger on it.

ive seen that hatchet somewher before

so what is he in dignitas? a streamer?

On the website he's down as just a "commentator". So basically yah.

I played ShootMania, now i just exist.

dont worry there are plenty of new games coming out soon™

Also is anything happening with leveluptv, I don't think I've seen anything come out of that since Tribes: Asscend.

I gave disrepute everything (twitch/youtube etc) a long time ago, must have been like 3+ years by now! It was fun whilst it lasted! (:

Someone's gotta do this shit!

CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLICKITY CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLICKITY CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLICKITY CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLICKITY CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLICKITY CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLICKITY CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLICKITY CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLICKITY CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLICKITY CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLICKITY

pew pew badum pew ptsh! pew clack clack pew ptsh !

FU LOBSTER!

Smackgyver: Reflexdev will there be a vanilla q3 set of physics (weapon switch, movement, etc.)?

Reflexdev: no vanilla mode

Reflexdev: we'd get sued

All you need to know. Reflex is dead already.

what a shit comment

indeed, also pulled out of context:
i asked if the vq3 ruleset will be built in or accessible by cvars, because i personally think that the fast weapon switching and aircontrol add up a lot of unpredictability.
the fact that it won't be, doesn't kill the game. if you ask me, the game looks promising, they are further than i expected, i fell in love with that nostalgic axe and the lg-impact-sparks made me horny.

to have few ruleset in such game is bad idea because of community split.

well, yes. but still i hoped for some vq3.

i dont really care about ruleset, prefer more +forward.

I jsut want a game with enough playerbase.

no one plays CPM now. no one will play CPM in the future.

if you will compare Q3, QL, CPMA, QW, Q2 together to... dota2, lol, csgo... it looks like all Quakes are sooo dead.

Yeah, that was always the big barrier with standalone CPM and the concept of legacy support, too.

get mapping

In-game mapping client like that certainly makes the idea tempting.

Mapping for Quake 3 engine was such a chore.

Nothing new under the sun, still the same bunch of dense polish fucks asking how the reflex devs ( tho this applies to any of the projects currently being worked on ) are going to bring new players to the games instead of leaving their mom's basements, spreading the word and making shit happen.

salty much?

Very much.

hei nazi boi, eduked bivor talg pliz.

[img1]

craziest part is the reason, high iodine foods, lack of iodine in mothers is proven to handicap the cognitive develpoment (not only that but a good example)

Not heaps diplomatically put, but I agree with you. There's this weird idea that community building is the sole responsibility of the developer.

We'll obviously do what we can to make sure that people know about Reflex and to make sure that people's introduction in to the game isn't "Install game, get stomped 60-0, delete game".

But really, people would be right to be cynical if we went around telling them "Buy Reflex, it's the best FPS game ever made and you'll never play anything else again" because well.. we made it and selling copies of it pays our wages.

A friend who has been for two weeks straight telling you to grab a copy and join in though is much less suspicious. All they have to gain is another person to play against.

It's pretty rare for me to go and see a movie because the poster says it's awesome but I catch a lot of stuff that's been recommended by my friends. The same thing applies to games and labeling everything that comes along as "dead" before it's even a quarter finished might just be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I know it's a CPM clone, but it does look decent visually

why do I have this feeling a game like this could do really well? Sure the core gameplay is just like Quake almost, but that's helpful for people. I'm sure people like deathmatch in general, not just quake exclusively. Since Quake is recognizable, wouldn't it make sense to keep it close to that?

This game could add matchmaking, a leaderboard of some sort, fun game modes, and purchasable aesthetics. Like $0.99 for an alternate rocket trail similar to the ones you see used in frag movies. Offer different looks of guns too, keep the function the same, just skin it or remodel it

I mean look at LoL, at it's core it's DOTA with matchmaking, skins, and other features. The game is huge and all they did was take a popular mode and make it profitable

I never had faith in Reflex before because it's just another warsow, but if they actually did things right and also worked with Steam, why wouldn't this do well? Seriously, QL is a shit version of Quake. You would think QL would be the future version of Q3, but it's just a crappy port in a browser, now in a client. What does it offer that Q3 didn't? Stats, some in-game chat? Their money is made with subscriptions, like a fucking newspaper. I get the in-game advertising thing didn't take off, but there's clearly other solutions. Plus QL doesn't look any better than Q3 did, minor but the game still looks like a 2000 game.

I just picture talking to casual pc gamers, telling them about a game just like quake but looks really good, has skins and aesthetics, is really fun, you can queue with friends, etc. It's like Quake, so if they have experience in Quake it transfer, and it's better than QL because it offers you more, doesn't look like it was made in 1999, and is just as fun

regarding LoL and DOTA comparison. All they did - they dumbed down everything including making shitty asian style graphics which modern kids love for no reason. And bam tons off ppl playing it just like COD and BF.

Not really. Anyone that was around in those days knows the story is way deeper than that, across all aspects.

In short, in the end LoL is very, very similar to the QL project, but they did things right and when facing QL's troubles the LoL team focused on what mattered and on working, instead of cheaping out then sweep everything under the carpet.

plus I don't think it matters if it was dumbed down or not, if it was still fun it would of likely been the same result

those markets eat that shit up more, plus it's still more appealing than the dota 2 look, LoL is a lot more vibrant and eye catching.

plus it shows how much that stuff doesn't matter. you can add/remove what you want, if people are having fun that's what matters. it doesn't even matter if there's matchmaking, which is probably a big factor why LoL did well in the first place

exactly, but if they done the same to QL and made it in such a way that it sells good, you won't be playing it because it will be not quake as we know it.

but dota 2 is pretty close to the same, and it does really well.

my point is that it doesn't matter what they did, they could of kept the core gameplay close to dota and they would of been just as successful. the minor gameplay details are a very small picture when you're talking about the success of a game like that

wtf cpm haters, stop being fags.

looks promising, and many things are placeholders. You can't simply call it 'cpma clone" at this stage.

i want to play it, NOW.

btw. cpma is more fun.

Dat ax-pummel.... Rekt!!!!

17 comments, 17 players. How fitting.

with such community you will kill every new game.

everybody should support every arena fps.

it's not fucking reddit

go and look how Reborn look like than... lol
for now Reflex looks the best.

also everybody act like cpma is soooo much different lol

it's not fucking reddit

then?
reborn?
wat?

Anyway, who knows anything about reborn? Not even 2gd himself.
It's not a race. If Quake + doto will work, fine, if not - R E F L E X ;)

Or even better.

B O T H
O
T
H

that why imo hating, blaming, crying, shitting on any new game is bad. Making bad image from the start.

if any of these games will be succesfull it will be miracle.

Again, it's not reddit.
You can circle jerk here about sponge being ultra faggot but same thing for a "new quake" game won't happen : ))

PLS implement a mode where its humans vs A.I monsters (that don't look like keel or whatever but look like fucking monsters)

I've been waiting for a co-op quake 1 clone for a long time. Shit was soooo fun.

I just want arenas 1-100. You start with a group of 8 people, all weapons, no friendly fire and then fight each horde of monsters until you get to level 100.

If you die in any of the arenas YOU ARE OUT. At the end of that shit it could be just you alone vs the lvl 100 boss and if your team wins you get points with a leaderboard.

Now if your team is still standing at the end of the month at the #1 on the leaderboards, you get some prizes.

I mean shit, get me and some coders together and we'll release absolute money ideas for sick game play.

There was a shitty third person shooter - GunZ. It had Quest mode.
4 people joins a server and they kill waves of enemies. They drop ammo and health. After few levels there is miniboss and after few more if you had specific item - HUGE FUCKING BOSS ala Painkiller.
Never beat any of those big bosses... Good shit, would play.

UT has this! It's called Invasion, you just fight wave after wave of mutants/monsters with team mates.

At this moment Reflex is CPMA with more features, which is already amazing. I'm really optimistic about Reflex right now.

What features?

Looks actually pretty good, i like the overall feel of the game, looks fast, smooth and fluid.

to me this looks more interesting than reborn or ut4.

Shit on a paper looks more promising and interesting than ut4

VOD : http://www.twitch.tv/justnvc/b/557748852

This is what a real QL 2.0 update should look like graphics wise.
Instead they give us the same shit but ask us to pay for actual Quake.

and change the gameplay, while offering the old gameplay behind a paywall

ecstatic

i see i haven't misplaced my faith. this game is going to be fucking beast.

Just give me the developer's paypal. I NEED you to have some of my money.

Just wait for kickstarter!

A pre-alpha build does not a CPM clone make. At least wait until it's in beta before passing judgement.

this looks fucking phenominal, stop hating on the future

I sincerely hope it has clientside hitscan detection upon release. I'm sick of predicting rail shots like rockets when having a spin in UK or NA servers.

lol no. clientside hit detection is never going to happen in any game.

BF4, COD...

i'm pretty sure bf3/4 are the only games to have some implementation of client side hit detection, but it's not entirely client side, it's a hybrid of both. cod is server side.

Planetside 2 is completely client side hit detection wise

whaaat. how do they handle cheating?

Very very well apparently, even well known hacker dev groups have given up at this point in time.

There have been cheats for it but they get banned pretty much instantly. Dno how they do it but its one of the most "cheat free" fps games out there.

that's really interesting. i always thought doing client side hit detection would be like the ultimate mistake a dev could make with a multiplayer game.

Yeah its quite weird, it should not work but it actually does.

Also has the nice benefit of being playable with say ping 200 , although it does have some downsides as well. Occasionally u'll get killed while on your screen youre already out of line of sight and that kinda thing.

The devs have said they had no choice but to go clientside, otherwise the server simply wouldnt have been able to cope with the huge nr of players in any given battle

Yes it can stir up misunderstandings. Some guns like the Railgun and it's visible beam for instance could appear to hit a player several meters off in mid air, which some may mistake as a sign for fucked up hitboxes. How extreme it is, depends on the ping obviously. It's worth the cons though and it actually makes hitscan weapon hitting easier, or more precisely: possible.

That and it also allows for a cute little trick. U can physically remove your ethernet cable , shoot some stuff on your screen then plug it back in and u'll instagib anything you shot at.

This will get u banned but it does work :P

lul

Innit, the wonders of client side hit detection. When u lag badly its basically the same thing, anything thats on your screen the moment you hit a lagspike of a few seconds is condemned to die.

Never fails to induce the rage comments from the receiving end

Never had this on Xonotic. It seems to have a sort of hybrid system for hit detection. Hitscan weapons eg. "railgun", "LG" and machinegun have a client side detection, but then the projectiles come with a server side delay. Even if it's just for hitscans, it improves the gameplay a lot as it's much easier to adapt to rocket delay than railgun/mg/LG delay. And in case someone misunderstood, in my initial comment (#40) I wished for a client side hitscan detection for hitscan weapons specifically, not hit detection in its entirety.

I'm just illustrating why pure clientside hit detection isn't our saviour.

Both client side and server side have their downsides, a mix of both is probably the way to go. In a perfect world without the constraints of the general theory of relativity client side is the obviously best option though

It's not clientside ffs.

Okay. Whatever the universal term is, you know what I mean. If not then go have a test run in Xonotic instagib and diagnose it yourself. It's a good setup for hitscan weapons nevertheless and any arena shooter should definitely have it.

Yeah what this means is you get a ton of paradoxes and stuff that makes no sense to the guy who doesn't ping 300. It's already wonky enough clamped to 80 as it is in ql.

It's better to be able to play 50% than not at all. Every Quake starting from 2 to QL and Warsow are simply inferior and outdated in this department.

Or maybe you could stop trying to play with 300 ping.

My point being, you wouldn't feel the impact of the ping as much with 80-150 ping, 150 being still playable in Xonotic whilst QL struggles at 60 upwards. Not everyone have that sweet 0-30 ping.

The other guy gets to feel it.

Warsow even has some bullshit going on that spawns projectiles where they'd have spawned if you didn't ping shit. It leads to absolutely insane situations.

Your argument is based on a whole different set of circumstances. Weird shit (warping etc.) happens with a bad and unstable connection regardless of your location. Not necessarily with high, but stable ping. Besides Warsow has a notoriously bad netcode to the begin with.

And again.. I'm talking about hitscan weapons specifically, not hit detection entirely. There's no "paradoxes" in Xonotic, only delay and I wish Reflex would follow the example.

So basically, you've never been railed by somebody with 200 ping.

I get hit like it's a normal thing in Xonotic. And I get hit because the high pinger genuinely aimed, clicked and hit me. I also hit people while having 200 ping, but occasionally get killed before the delay catches up which makes the hit not count, so it effects both sides evenly.

The delay for railguns is not a game ruining element, but not hitting railguns at all due to high ping is. If you keep playing with your usual companions with small ping anyway, it wont even make a difference to you. So quit being stubborn you lousy semen.

I'm not against antilag, I'm against antilag up to such insane thresholds.

You're exaggerating it in your mind. I think most of Valve's games are using similar system for hitscan weapons too, arena shooters need to catch up.

Those weapons don't have any knockback.

So what?

You don't get instantly bumped into geometry that was behind you half a second ago.

Antilag doesn't do that. You're talking about something else again.

Nope, that's exactly what antilag does.

That's what knockback does, lol.

lol

It would add knockback effect to a already made jump and fuck it up completely.

Yeah you can turn that shit off, I think it's cl_extrapolate 0

I have no clue why anyone thought that would be a good idea, it's weird as fuck.

I dunno much about planetside (actually not a single thing) but if you have "many clients" you can actually spend their resources at checking on eachother.
There are several algorithms out there which are good at figuring out who the "defecting player(s)" is/are.
In general they become more accurate as you have more valid clients. (or well better put have a low degree of cheats among all players)

Dunno if they use something which resembles that. It's a decent concept but it's impossible for duel (as you don't know which of the 2 is the potential cheat)... so I'm not sure what they did, but if theres no duel in it it could be that they have each client check up on eachother.

Probably something like that, theyve kinda implied that an "observer mode" of sorts has something to do with the anti cheat system.

Since it's a game that revolves around big battles ( like 100 vs 100) the concept you mentioned could be the thing they based it on.

All i know is it works (from personal experience) and they're (understandably) hesitant to divulge much about it

If they have anything on there which refers to "BOINC" then it works like that. But ofcourse there are other ways of doing similar things. (boinc is a fairly known tool for distributing problems across many pc's and validating their outputs)

...ezQuake, Quake Live...

quake live uses serverside hit detection

Yep and it effects your aim with rail and LG. Go above 80ping and you start feeling deficit in your accuracy. Client side hit detection feels more natural, you always hit when you're supposed to, it might not look nice visually (beams not connecting to the models directly etc..) but it's worth it. Team Fortress 2 has it, Xonotic has it and I'm pretty sure Quakeworld has it too. Those are the few games I like that I can play with my NA friends. Not having it is just really bad and outdated for any game with tops QL size- community.

tf2 and qw does not use client side hit detection

Add Xonotic to that list. It used to but doesn't anymore afaik. He's just bitching about the antilag not working up to obscene values.

I play TF2 in NA servers where hitscan weapons hit the targets with 200 ping. There must be client side something over there.

How you can explain hitting same accuracy with RAIL at ping 10 and ping 50-80?

unlagged

So unlagged as you said doesn't mean it's a client-side hit detection? Your have crosshair at enemy, press fire and nevermind what your ping is you hit. Isn't it clien-sided? Or what you call client-side hit detection?

client side hit detection means that the client sends a message to the server that the shot hit.
server side hit detection means that the client sends a message of describing where and when the player fired and the server then determines if the shot hit or missed.
(in QL this is done by checking where people *were* at the time that you fired your shot.)

pfff
client side hit detection is when client is actually checking if you hit your target or not and sending the result to server.
server side hit detection is when client only reporting position and vector of fire and server checks if you hit something with your shot.
unlagged code implement autmatic lag compensation on server side which performs backward time reconciliation to check if your opponent was at your line of fire at the time you made your shot (which was server time - your ping).

looks good, shame its those physics/mechanics

i'm glad it's not a ql clone
"variety is the spice of life " as the cliche goes
pony up the cash for classic quake or go back to osp
cheers

yep, i wouldn't want a direct clone either (if the original is still an option).
ponying up, don't worry.

why is it a shame?

Coz many things from the shown videos looks nice, the developer seems enthusiastic, etc. Shame is for that I don't prefer cpm physics/mechanics (air control/weapon switches)

I can appreciate good games in qw, cpma, pk, wsw, but after a while it just gets boring. The emphasis is shifted to much to one aspect of the game. The ratio of possibilities vs constraints of vanilla play, for me, just brings out way more in a game. Hence I will never have interest in playing actively those kinds games.

"The emphasis is shifted to much to one aspect of the game."

movement isn't your forte, i take it

well, hopefully, there are some grapplehook modes for people too lazy to learn the movement. grapplehook can be a ton of fun in case you didn't know.

and there's nothing wrong with air control/quick switches. period.

hf in quakelive, btw.
i'm glad you're subbing, even tho ill be playing reflex, i still dont want to see quake die

been playing from '98, and always liked new stuff (maps, movement, bugs, etc). So there is no aversion to learn new stuff.
i'm saying that i like this (vanilla) combination of meta game + skills required better then just emphasis on pure fighting skills.

there is no emphasis on pure fighting skills

i always felt pure fighting skills are more important in vq3 than cpm, because cpm's armor system and physics reward control play and learning how to move properly much more than in vq3. take a player like HAL9000, he isn't known for his top notch aim but he has sick movement and item control, he would get raped in vq3 but is one of the very best in cpm

2gd should learn how to make a game instead of talking

doto2 moar important.

well, definitely much better then ut4 imo. but on the other side I always liked faster movement more then clumsy UT movement anyways.

it is not only movement, but the whole lightning and particle effects scheme. Imo whoever designed those has very nice taste in arts.

mouse input in unreal engine is horrible.

even now, from videos it seems mouse input in Reflex is good and smooth.

Okay, I love the effects. It looks awesome.

But can we turn it off? :P

they said they working at high visability high contrast config or smth.

Reflex should sell their engine to the others after succes of the game ;)

They should sell it to id maybe ;)

id could do then:
- add loadouts
- port it to console
- make single player game

:P

I'll take this as an engine demo and the engine looks really really good! Lighting and the robot model look very nice, while keeping the clean look of quake 3 which I love. They have made the engine from scratch. Can't wait to play it myself.

Again I understand this is pre-alpha and they are using pre existing maps at the moment but I hope it ships with a brand new map pool, would hate to see all/a lot of the maps coming from CPM and be stuck with that a similar pool for the games life.

map tools seems to be cool, and im not sure but I think they published these tools already.

and... "They expecting LOT of new maps" @ reddit.

map tools are already in the game

not sure how complete they are as I havent used them much but they are there

They're good enough to smash out basic map designs quickly and easily -- we used them to build all the maps you've seen.

They're not heaps user friendly at the moment (with almost no UI done) and you wouldn't want to use them to completely detail an environment, but all of that will change with time.

We will be using the same tools as the community use for building maps, so anything you see us make could just as easily be made by the community.

i wouldn't mind an updated cpm15 and phrantic.
everything else can go to the recycle bin tho, especially zzzzaerowalk

More remakes and more new maps are both inevitable once the community gets its hands on the mapping tools but we'll definitely be giving priority to new maps when it comes to adding them to the official pool.

What kind of system specs are we looking at? I understand they are going to a modern engine but how scalable will it be?

We don't know yet -- we haven't done any optimization at all and we're still missing a whole lot of art. We're aiming to keep everything as lean and fast as possible though (which is one of the reasons we've done our own engine from scratch). As a general idea, requirements will be higher than Q3/QL but lower than a lot of AAA titles.

I'm willing to check out the performance on my AMD A8 5600k APU with 8gb ram.

game looks awesome!I havent been following this much, but can someone tell me why there wont be vq3??

id could, (and almost certainly would, if you extrapolate from their recent behaviour,) sue for copyright.

how can they sue on anything if the game is designed from scratch!?They dont claim the name for vq3 and even if they do, just call it smth else?Not like others dont pull this sort of stuff, can see it all the time one mouse company compying from another and those chinese car manufacturers ripping off bmw,merc..

this more like sounds as an excusse to push cpm, like id wants their shitty update.

You can sue for copying the design brief alone, regardless of whether the game was built from scratch on a new engine with new assets or not.

id are also attempting (lol?) to maintain a profitable service using the same specification, so could argue a good case for lose of earnings as damages.

http://e-3lue.com/int/individual%20product/Cobra.html

http://img.alibaba.com/wsphoto/v0/400131204/H...ipping.jpg

and theres shitton of other fakes floating around..

You can sue for copying the design brief alone, regardless of whether the game was built from scratch on a new engine with new assets or not.

isnt that a tad difficult to prove?Its like one would attempt to patent a wheel design.You patent a manufacturing process eg. Bridgestone/Micheline in f1, but how can you patent a design???Will other manufacturers make squared wheels??

He is wrong. What Newborn is really saying is that he doesn't like Quake Live / VQ3 ruleset. If id Software wanted they could actually sue him for the design he has now (if he were to keep it). CPMA ruleset or not. The way I see it is that he will keep it quite similar to this overall and Newborn is just trying to justify a reason not to use / implement any other ruleset.

After all, he is still *very* similar game design if you take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

Despite how I've been quoted elsewhere, there's more to it than just a fear of Bethesda lawyers.

I don't think that CPMA supporting VQ3+CPMA rulesets was particularly good for the scene and it doesn't appear that QL+PQL has worked out great either. Having two different rulesets in a single game just seems to be inherently awkward.

We're also making the game we want to play ourselves. I'm not going to mock anyone for playing VQ3, people can prefer whatever they want, but for us on the dev team, VQ3 is not the game we want to be playing.

Finally, VQ3/QL is idsofts job. If you want something done with that ruleset, you should let them know that you're interested in that and that you'd throw money at them if it happened. We're not actually out to just poach their players ;)

thank you for the answer.. I was kinda guessing you didnt feel like introducing vq3 in the first place.If you wanted to implement vq3, Im sure you would find a way Bethesda or not.

It will probably work out a whole lot nicer for everyone if people just request Reflex features for QuakeLive, rather than QuakeLive gameplay for Reflex ;)

A quick summary on yesterdays stream:

- The mouse input feels great, my current sensitivity of 4 with 1800dpi is approximately 22cm/360. A setting of 10 is default.

- The performance is good on my i7 3770k. I was streaming at 1280x720 60fps with faster CPU preset. It was absolutely fine. I couldn't tell you how the current build performs on other systems but newborn did mention that optimization will come in the form of up to 5x which i guess is great too? Ha!

- The current weapon switch delay is set to 75ms, which is not as fast as CPM. However, all weapons, sound, art, damage, timings... everything... is subject to (and likely will) change.

- In this build the plasma we know was hitscan, and railgun hitscan. In the build previous railgun was a projectile with slight arc (the reason for hitscan plasma)... closer to a stake gun. Like above, this is changing all the time. There is no Spawn Machine Gun weapon right now, it's a 3 projectile triangle thingy called the "burst gun".

- As of this build not all keyboard binds are in (ctrl,mouse3/4/5 etc), this is on the to-do list and will be added between the next few builds, often i'd select one instead of the other on stream by mistake, that's just a bad habbit.

- The current melee weapon is click to swing axe, it deals knockback and damage. It is one of several COSMETIC melee weapons but the only one currently implemented.

- I played during the entire stream at a FOV of 90 (I use 95 in quake3/quakelive). I didn't realise until later, but this can be changed through a console command.

- There are server side replays!!!

- You can seemlessly jump into the map editor during gameplay and even build a map whilst two players are playing... though to render the new assets so they look super pretty you'll need to type a console command and wait a period of time for it to build. The time it takes will be reduced as they make improvements. This could be great for building maps with pro players too.

I also took a sneak peak at the environment art away from the stream and it looks absolutely amazing, i can't wait to see it translated into official Reflex maps. I couldn't show that on stream though.

Sorry if I've missed anything.

TL;DR Take my money! :D

Still got the client? I'd be interested to know if it's hor+ or vert- for superwide.

I can't stand 16:9 anymore :p

" I played during the entire stream at a FOV of 90"

ahaa, that is why gameplay looks slow. Fov 105 next ptime plz, at least for a few minutes.

r_fov 105 is now set in the default config ;)

That is what I call developer's support!

Is that "real" fov ( across the whole screen ) or a 4/3fov+calculations done to match the aspect ratio ?

Since my background is Q2, I'll say that it'd be a good idea to decrease the weapon switch delay and overall delays and blank spaces in the game. We all prefer responsive inputs and immediacy*

Doesn't necessarily have to be instant though, that's your choice**.

* Maybe the sole exception is Purri

** Except in hit and hitbeep sounds, in which in other games I really dislike those blank spaces in the sound files before the actual sound. Add that to lag and you have that they aren't reliable.

There is no Spawn Machine Gun weapon right now, it's a 3 projectile triangle thingy called the "burst gun".

Awesome, something similar to a q1 sg is the ultimate starting weapon!

Similar, but a bit more range limited. It's actually working really well in testing so far.

liking the sound of it!

QL thread : "WHY WOULD YOU MAKE ANY CHANGE TO THE GAME?"

REFLEX thread : "HEY, SAME OLD SHIT AMIRITE?"

We noticed that ;)

no vq3, not for me tho, but it's no fast-weapon switches for all I know. which is better I guess

Looks good tbh. The movement looks great, bit slower than CPM but same flexibility. It's good that they have something playable, but the real challenge is going to be all the content, so there is still going to be a few years before this is a real game.

Honestly though, any game that is made with the support features of something like Dota 2, no matter what ruleset (vq3, cpm, ut, etc.) will be a success. Support features are WAY more important than people give credit for. The slightly better support and convenience in QL is the reason people are still playing it over everything else.

If the players are there, I will play this.

It's about the same speed as CPM, nvc was just using a lower FOV than people are used to seeing.

We agree with you about the support features though -- they're a really high priority and one of the major things that will set Reflex apart from any other arcade FPS to date. We're not elaborating too much on our plans at the moment since ultimately how much we can do depends on time and budget but Dota 2 wouldn't be a bad point of reference for now.

You also might be surprised at how quickly it comes together once we have the resources. It's already surprisingly playable and we wouldn't have spent more than a week on the gameplay side of things so far.

We'll probably put a much higher emphasis on developing the gameplay (and features to support it) as we near alpha and a lot of the engine tech is stable. Alpha may not be a whole lot prettier than it is now and we definitely won't have awesome Dota2-like features but you won't be waiting years for something you can jump in and play seriously.

Personally, I'd be happy if we could focus on getting game stuff comp-ready immediately after the Kickstarter but the rest of the team might disagree ;)

grapple in ctf?

can weapon fire going through teleportals be added? too hard?

It can be added (and probably will be at some point).

The way we're thinking of doing it at the moment is: Teleporters cannot be seen through or fired through. Portals can be both seen and fired through.

Once those two separate types are implemented, it will be up to mappers to decide which type they want to use and where. Just changing all Teleporters to allow firing through does bad things to existing maps though and won't always be desirable in new maps (sometimes Teleporters should be a trap)

This is what makes me "sad". Really like the way u (all) think on most subjects. So I'm sad that we are not on the same side of what we think better gamplay/ruleset is.

We are also sad (that you're a heathen) ;)

:)

how about having portals that are not a fixed size, like a large wall?

Well, that would allow mappers to make large, seamless portals and therefore some extremely confusing non-euclidean (I think?) maps so.. probably ;)

+ for Q4 style teles! Will try alpha-beta in future, then more players will have access to it.

The bloom on the LG is blinding. =/

Anyway, kickstarter nao so I can throw money at you.

Our bloom is pretty much half broken right now. It will be fixed sooner or later but for now there are other things that need our limited development time.

Also, the (Ion Cannon) effect has already been updated for the next build to be a bit thinner, a bit less bloomy and a lot more orange.

Looks smooth as silk. Especially now that i watch it again on VOD, like it's somehow better rendered than the actual live footage. Speaking of smooth, i forgot to ask what tickrate (sv_fps) the Reflex servers will be running at by default and if this is configurable.

The VOD does look smoother than the live stream was but they both look pretty rough compared to in-game 125fps.

I think we're using sv_fps 40 as default at the moment. The cvar exists to adjust it but netcode still needs a lot of work so things might change.

I don't understand how having two different modes is bad for a game.
Sad, because it looks quite promising regarding netcode and smoothness(

Even if you could convince us that having 2 rulesets in the same game was good for it, we still wouldn't be able to implement VQ3 ;)

Well, I'm certainly not gonna try and convince you as I have read enough opinions from you regarding vq3 and lets put it this way. You'd rather drop the soap in the shower than having vq3 in your game)).
I just don't believe all the "we can't do vq3" talk or it is bad having more than one mode in a game. Hence I'd rather have a honest developer who flatout states we don't like vq3 and we don't want it in our game.

Anyway just one more question? How is your spawnsystem going to be? Don't make the same stupid mistake as id did and let it be completely random. After all spawnfragging is fun \o/.
Decent netcode and I will give this game a try)

We all used to play a bunch of QuakeLive back when we actually had time to play other games, we just don't like it as much as what we've got going on.

And implementing VQ3 really would the legal equivalent of dropping the soap in the shower, right in front of a team of Bethesda lawyers. So no, we're not really eager to have our lives destroyed so a few people can play a game they've already got with different graphics =P

Finally, to disappoint you one last time, spawn points will not be completely random (although they are currently) because it means that the outcome of matches can be decided by luck.

Decent netcode we can do though.

We all used to play a bunch of QuakeLive back when we actually had time to play other games, we just don't like it as much as what we've got going on.

No problem with that.

And implementing VQ3 really would the legal equivalent of dropping the soap in the shower, right in front of a team of Bethesda lawyers. So no, we're not really eager to have our lives destroyed so a few people can play a game they've already got with different graphics =P

So 2gd gets buttfucked or am I missing something ;)

Finally, to disappoint you one last time, spawn points will not be completely random (although they are currently) because it means that the outcome of matches can be decided by luck.

Unless you make it 100% sure where your opponent spawns you'll always have the random favour and tbh a bit of randomness is not bad as long as it isn't an utterly retarded mechanic like 10% of your rails can miss :D. And to be fair ur reasoning doesn't make much sense when you have 9:xx timers at the same time because that is random ;)
I meant something like this

Ok, I can't link a specific time. Too dumb -.-. The scene is around 17:15.
I never played q3 only ql and I cannot stand the fucking spawn system in ql. It sucks and I think this is one of the main reasons why ql is rather slow and +backish. Or did you mean thatt you can't spawn more than twice in the same place which seems to be fair.

To me it seems you are making a game for yourselves and not for a broader audiance (c) sn0w_crash
I mean it's your money and time but if you want that not be wasted you'd do better and listen to some of the arguements here.
And yes adding an extra cvar for simple stuff like a clock won't hurt your game. Only your ego maybe.

The way the spawn points will work is: You can spawn at any point, but you're more likely away from where you died.

A little bit of randomness is fine.. the occasional bad / lucky spawns can keep things interesting (and you can't do anything about it without making spawns entirely predictable).

Stuff like this is not fine ;)

Well that's dumb. That's how vq3 works and it's predictable as hell. The more randomness you throw into the mix, the more you might as well use random+checks.

That vid is fine. Just put stronger checks for consecutive spawns.

LOL :D.

Imo the problem with ql's spawnsystem is that spawns are rather predictable. I can tell to 90% where my opponent will spawn on both aero and ztn after I killed him. At first that doesn't sound bad but in reality it is and it is one of the main reasons why ql duel is rather zzz. This system allows you to take fights where you end up with a very low stack because you know he's spawning for example at upper ya (ztn), thus he doesn't pose a threat to that upcoming mega 2 seconds. So even tho he has 20hp he's like lalala I'm gonna pick it.

I know it is a skill and some like it but I think it is moronic mechanic which was intended to protect casuals from being raped but all it did was slowing down the game unnecessarily.
Another great example is ql aerowalk. You'll see people favouring position instead of getting ra because he will never ever spawn on ra.
Players also won't chase on ya side because why would you possibly cripple yourself by giving him the possibilty to spawn on ra side. A lot of people blame the map but it is the stupid spawnsystem. Maybe not only spawnsystem.
They did the same with nerfing rail. Again all it did was making it even harder to play out of control.
Someone with 100/200 doesn't really bother getting hit by a lousy 80 dmg rail but otherwise it certainly did.
I don't wanna even mention the stupid spawn protection. No idea which retard had that idea :D.

Bit offtopic but I just wanted to share what's wrong with ql duel. Av3k once said it a bit better than me in an interview. Sadly I can't find it.


tl:dr dont nerf stupid shit or cater to much too newbies because it won't help them except making the game less fun :O
Ok, faerie just said in 2 sentences what I did in a whole essay :x fml

Took you 30 minutes to type that ? :D

About spawn protection I'll add that it's default on in public servers and is pretty much always disabled in private servers, which means the ruleset changes from server to server. Fucking syncerror.

I think he meant the spawns work like in modern qw or cpm : It's random with a few checks so there's less and less % you're gonna spawn somewhere if you already spawned there recently.

noone talking about 1:1 VQ3. something with lower aircontrol, slower weapon swtich. Q2 doublejumps and movement is realy nice imho , add some walljumps like from ut and you have fresh ruleset.

dumbed down cpm is fresh I guess

fresh = not 1:1 VQ3

You do realize that even if it has absolutely nothing in common with vq3 it'll still be fresh, right? Hell it'll probably be more fresh.

Witout intending to talk things down: What is this game going to add to the FPS genre and how will you make people play it?

If they add NTF i'd never close the game.

That's exactly the kind of stuff I want to see in a game like this - if it's done right.

Edit: My Question still stands though!

This question... is strange because the answer would be something like "the gameplay, and clean, modern client," however, would such an answer satisfy the requirement set? Chiefly to quell the skepticism surrounding its potential, future success, because I can't help but think that there can always be doubt with respect to any answer that is given, for any game that was at this stage of development.

You always ask this question in these threads and I always avoid it. Not because I don't have an answer for it but because it's hard to avoid talking about things that we're not yet willing to talk about ;). So, avoiding those topics:

We've got some rendering tech that (as far as I know) hasn't yet been seen in any other arcade shooter but it's only a matter of time before the UE4 games hit and that's no longer true. That's okay though -- we don't really want people playing Reflex just because it's the prettiest.

We've got extremely responsive input that honestly feels better than any other game I've played. Admittedly, very few new players will care but I suspect they'll notice -- my 7 year old nephew was running around and commented that "it feels really smooth to play". His comparison was probably Minecraft at 30fps but the feel of the game has still been praised by players of all skill levels.

We've got some tools in development that are actually quite a lot of fun to mess around with. The fact that we've already got these tools at this pre-alpha stage shows how serious we are about getting the community involved in developing content. But that's only going to appeal to a certain subset of players (like yourself).

We've got a huge scope for things to master. Reflex (like CPMA before it) is one of those games you can easily sink years of play in to without feeling like you've seen all there is to see or hit some skill ceiling where the only way up is a series of tiny refinements to what you already know.

I think we'll be able to set a new benchmark for competitive features that will become the standard that players demand from future games, just as OSP and CPMA did with Quake 3.

We've got some gameplay features planned, some of which I don't think have been done in any FPS before, some of which haven't been done in a Quake-like game before, some of which probably won't survive the playtesting phase so I'm not going to talk about them ;)

Mostly though, people will play Reflex because Reflex is fun.

I've spent hours building things in the level editor just because I was enjoying myself. Even our testers have been uploading the very first maps they've ever made for any game -- maps that have obviously taken hours.

Testing some changes to the melee weapons turned in to quickly building a map and declaring "first one to get smashed off the platform and in to the void loses".

Our internal playtesting usually runs an hour later than planned because we end up FFAing without realizing.

I load up builds to "quickly check something" and then notice I've lost 45 minutes to trickjumping.

Which is actually kind of amazing. In most cases, "fun" doesn't survive the development process -- the game itself becomes work and actually enjoying it gets replaced with a mental "to do" list.

But it's not just the developers either -- some of our testers have been playing CPMA for years and are still enjoying Reflex, even in its hugely under-developed state. In the very VODs this thread is about, nvc ends with "just one more life, then I'll stop".

In the end, we cant make people play anything. We could bribe them or try and manipulate them but we'd really rather not.

We can however make a game that is fun (and stays fun no matter what your skill level is). That actually works. That has all the features people want (and have wanted for years).

If you're after a completely unique, never been done before game, yeah, Reflex isn't it. Our focus is more towards "has never been done this well before". We'll have new stuff but being as different as possible isn't as high a priority as improving as much as possible.

When we've got stable tech, a bunch of art assets and are not facing eviction for spending our rent on game development, that's when I've got a whole bunch of experimental, never been done ideas that I'd like to play with. And release for free. If they're a success and fit with Reflex, they can be rolled in to the core game. If they don't fit the rest of the game, we can make a new game instead. Maybe you'll be more interested in those, but Reflex comes first because we've been waiting 10 years for a game like Reflex.

Anyway, giant 1AM rant and I've lost a lot of sleep to Reflex recently so I'm going to call it a night ;)

....We've got extremely responsive input that honestly feels better than any other game I've played.....
.....Our focus is more towards "has never been done this well before".......
........"first one to get smashed off the platform and in to the void loses"........


TAKE MY MONEY!!!!!!

I get all of that and I have no doubt you'll do a great job, however, that is not what I meant to ask about. Those things are super nice and important to have long-term but they wont sell the game all alone initially IMHO.
What I'm curious about is social gaming, short-term entertainment factor of the game, accessibility and introduction to the game, relaxing while playing (how are you going to provide that? Because that's what people do/want to do nowadays), a reward system, addiction potential (short-term - long-term all the stuff you described above is going to make people stay).
What is reflex team play going to be about? Do you think classic DM like q3 tdm/ffa can get people hooked or is reflex going to go down new paths? The list goes on... :)
I get you don't want to talk about some/most of that stuff yet but those things are really important, for me at least. Creating good gameplay and nice tools is not very hard in the sense of invention as all of it has been done before in one way or another. What hasn't been done is bringing arena FPS to the masses without taking a shit on the genre and that is exactly what I care about and what I think is going to make the difference between all of these games being made now in the end.

We've got a few plans for social stuff.

Being on steam will of course give us access to the usual challenging of friends, adding people you've played with to your friends, forming parties from your friends list etc.

We've been talking about the ability to form custom ladders so that players can find out how they stack up among their circle of friends / school / workplace / cell block. It's also been far too long since I've played a game that did a good job of encouraging and supporting clans.

For accessibility, our high standards for actually being able to see other players, rebind everything and strip the visuals down to the bare minimum will help people with disabilities and potato computers but that's probably not what you meant. We'll probably also be a third of the cost of a lot of other games out there.

For introducing new players to the game, we've got a few plans for tutorials, including info nodes that the player can walk over to see/hear tooltips or see a picture-in-picture demonstration of a trick jump (complete with keypresses). We've also got bots planned so we're intending to combine the movement maps and bot matches in to a training progression that goes from basic movement and casual game modes, all the way up to insane tricks and deep 1v1 strategy. If our Kickstarter does incredibly well, I'd love to do a proper single/coop campaign (since that's where most of us started) but that's a lot of development which means a lot of money.

Relaxing while playing isn't really the type of game we're making. Our core audience are the kinds of players who will keep playing until they're top of the high scores. A lot of us would have played CPMA and lost our first game 60-0 and instead of raging, we start working to figure out how they did that, what we did wrong. That said, we will be implementing some more casual modes because not everyone wants to play high level DM every single game -- it burns you out.

We've got a few reward-type systems in mind. Cosmetic unlocks / drops, simple collectables to reward exploring the training/tricking maps or attempting more difficult tricks, obvious and satisfying MMR gains (including for completing training maps).

Addiction potential has probably been covered above and to be honest it doesn't feel right to sit around and think about how we can manipulate our fans (despite it being a conversation I'm sure most game developers/publishers have).

Reflex team play is going to be about an adolescents journey of self discovery and their eventual.. Okay no. We're just going to smash 2 teams together to see who is better and make sure that the players have fun in the process ;). There's a few things I'd like to try that might help reduce "lone wolf" / "free for all except don't shoot the blue people" situations and increase the reward of actual teamplay and game roles.

Our playtesting is largely FFA at the moment (since we haven't actually implemented modes) and I'm surprised by how much life it still seems to have in it -- it's still a lot of fun. I think part of that might be that we're also talking on Skype so can talk smack / laugh at dumb shit so I've been rethinking how we might approach voip support in teamless modes and warmup.

I do have a few changes to team modes that I'd like to try out but it's not worth potentially raging a few people until I've playtested enough to feel confident it's an improvement.

I also have a few experimental modes I'd like to try out but we need the base game nailed down first so there's a lot of development before then.

I suspect you might have a few ideas of your own about this stuff and I'd be interested in hearing them (either on here or you can PM me in IRC).

If it's going to be fastswitch then you're killing the game.

Noobs (and me) switch with mousewheel. I for one ain't gonna learn to play with binds any time soon so I probably won't play the game, which is sad cause it looks really nice.

just in case it makes a difference for you, its not instaswitch. I think the aim is to get it somewhere between QL and CPMA switch speeds

It's still very tense sometimes with ql's switch speed. If they want an "advanced" (:D) mwheel user to beta test what kind of switch delay is still liveable then I'm ok to help.

I know I'm the billionth person to say this, but why wont you just learn to play with binds?

Just take it slow and start by binding RL to Q or something. Then a few games later bind LG to something and carry on doing that until you are sorted.

It would improve your game and its not hard to do. Also you would be able to buy reflex. Win win

People have been saying this but I still fail to see how that would make me a better player. I'm already a good fighter and learned hard to play the way I play, I don't feel like getting raped for months just so I can learn to be as good as I used to be on mwheel.

As far as I know, I'm harder to read than any opponent that uses binds, since you can just take a look at their config and tell if this particular player can not strafe right while switching to this or that particular weapon, as has been mentioned during the config porn live stream of ins and zoot a few weeks ago...

I have most of my weapons bound to my mouse so I can still strafe and switch

But even if you couldnt, it seems like a small price to pay for a much quicker reaction time

I also dont think it would take you months of getting raped. you arent a good dueller because of your binds (or lack of), you are a good dueller because of your game knowledge, decisions, etc etc

I had to change my binds for a few games and it took about 1 duel to adjust to it, and you are far better than me

but hey, whatever suits you best

i don't understand that. what do weapon binds have to do with a person's movement? they know they can use different fingers to move when switching weapons, right? also fucking lol you're actually serious. that's hilarious.

lol yeah I never really got that either. Who wouldn't just use pinky to press Q or their middle finger to press E, etc? Do the finger dance!

No, anyone with half a bit of bind awareness is used to dancing with their hand to avoid this, or even rebinding everything so you don't have to dance too often.

I was cringing at that zlive cfg porn video.

this

I had several teamates in the past and whenever this conversation about mwheel/bind came up, the other guy would tell me stuff like "I cant strafe right while switching to LG" e.g.

Anyway dont know why people keep making a fuss out of my former comment... If I told you the next big fps is going to be mwheel switch only with 9 weapons, are you all going to learn to play with that ? That's right, everyone would cry for binds... Hypocrites.

I probably would learn it.
But I'm saying that assuming you are aware of your limitations you can work around it,
You only ever have to have 2 fingers on the movement keys and they don't have to be the same fingers everytime, or you can adapt your binds around, basically have more stuff bound for your pinky and thumb and bind more things on your mouse.

Also I wasn't making a fuss about your mousewheel usage or anything, I was talking about how people limit themselves to certain patterns that can be worked around with certain binds and my disdain to zoot and ins' judgement of configs' controls, sensitivity settings and what not, ultimately people are using what they are used to and limiting themselves to whatever they feel fine with even if it has obvious in-game limitations with their current method of utilisation.

the difference is that most people started with mouse wheel and then switched to binds because mouse wheel is fucking terrible. it's not the same thing at all.

I think I proved everyone wrong (atleast in vq3, which is the core quake gameplay) that mousewheel is fucking terrible :D.

Honestly, though, have you not had games where you switched to the wrong weapon either because you didn't have the amount of weapons you thought, or because your mwheel (because WMO wheel is shit) has clicked one too many times?

The reason I've only ever played with the WMO is because I love its wheel, and it never lets me down. I've read so many people saying the mwheel is shit and sometimes it "mis-switches" or something. But that hasn't been the case for me unless my WMO started dying after 5 years of constant use. I have 3 WMO's atm: one that is in use for two years and two in case I need to change mine.

I never really switched to the wrong weapon, I mean not any more than people using binds because of the very same reason you mentioned. You're saying this like people using binds are immune to mis-switching but we all know it can happen to anyone.

Most of the times when people on stream or whatever see me using the wrong weapon, that's actually a wrong choice, just as it happens to anyone else, not a mwheel-bound issue like they love to say ;).

People have been saying this but I still fail to see how that would make me a better player.

So you're saying weapon binds won't make you a better player while simultaneously admitting that in this game you won't be a good player without them.... unless of course they change the game for you so that you can keep using mousewheel.

Mousewheel switching will probably be part of the default config so we'll make sure it feels nice to use and (as much as possible) try not to penalize anyone who wants to use it.

That said, you should try and get used to weapon binds because its always going to be much faster to use. I think when I first switched from wheel to binds I just used Q and E for rocket and rail and wheel for everything else. Then I just gradually added more binds once those became second nature. And since you can still select the guns with the wheel, if you forget then its not that big a deal.

As a confession, I still use mousewheel to get to the Plasma Gun in CPMA -- I just hit E to switch to rail and then mousewheel to switch to PG so its a bit faster than scrolling through all of them.

It is not always faster. That's my point. The relatively slow switch/reload time of most of the heavy weapons in VQ3 meant that I was never experiencing any sort of delay in my switching. Rail has a delay, shotgun has a delay, rocket has a delay, grenade launcher has a delay... Really the only guns that don't have a delay and that could cost me a little is the shaft, mg and pg.

Sure I can not into "quick-shaft-to-rail" combo but I play a different style to avoid that.

So you're expecting devs to cater their crucial game design based on a single person who decides to use mwheel?

Even stating that you won't play the game because it might not suit your weapon change is IMO sad.

That's like intentionally hindering yourself, like having one of your hands in the pocket and saying that you won't play this game because it requires you to use both hands.

Welcome to ESR.

A single person: yeah right.

It's like hindering myself ? Yeah right.

Btw I really cba that much. If a game doesn't suit me it's in my right to not play it. As is also my right to criticize and give an opinion.

It is sad if you think this is sad. I never liked cpm and this is definetly a clone, so I'm obviously disappointed. (And yeah I've read that you can not copy VQ3 for copyrights and stuff newborn)

edit: aircontrol would not stop me from playing the game still but if the switch reload makes me unable to use my beloved mousewheel, I'll just stick to QL classic, go back to Q3 or simply wait for reborn with my fingers crossed.

dunno man, u could be really against learning movement or something with more depth than pressing some buttons but this sounds like a bad joke since binds are present in mobas too...

The most retarded comment in a very very long time. How in gods name can that be a reason?

It has been a reason for me to avoid ever playing CPM in Quake 3. Good enough reason then. To me CPM was never MY understanding of Quake.

I always thought this was a joke. How the fuck do you find the weapon you want when you have to switch mid-fight? Seems like it'd be more of a hindrance than anything else.

I just know which weapons I have in hand, I know the order in which they come, after that it's all simple really.

genuine question: then why doesn't it work as soon as the switch time is reduced? I just ran around in cpm a bit trying to switch only with wheel, and while it's certainly awkward (not a problem for you I assume) it seems playable after a bit of getting used to.

The problem is I can't shoot AND switch at the same time, it feels awkward and it makes me unstable with my aim. Maybe this could be fixed if I say, used +fire on spacebar or something :)

But seriously, if you think binds won't make you a better player than switching on mousewheel, why would you think mousewheel makes you a better player than having binds?

If you're not interested in trying to get used to using binds (or a merge, I have RL on mwheeldown and RG on mwheelup, the rest on keyboard), and thus you're not interested in CPM or Reflex, you're just complaining about a 'hinderance' in a game, a hinderance you're not willing to try to overcome yourself.

Why cater to someone who isn't willing to make an effort?

Oh, and lastly... Do you think it's more crippling not being able to strafe to one side because you're switching weapons or that you can't fire immediately because you're switching weapons? Honestly, I'd be really fucking surprised if any opponent was able to see, "oh, he's switchingto LG now, better shoot to his left for the next 0.02 ms because he can't go right".

/rant

Even if they know your config binds it's still 50/50 because you can always standstill unless you're next to a wall, but then again you can adapt your hands to using different fingers to adapt yourself.

I've always prefered beeing able to move freely however I want to. As I said my left hand is about moving around and nothing else.

God I even have issues finding my say binds on my keys on 1234 etc... I just cant picture myself using 4 or 5+ binds more. I feel comfortable with my pinky sitting on shift to walk and my thumb on spacebar to jump.

My brain works differently with all those years and I sure as hell don't see why I'd force myself into something different for an uncertain gain (as I said I've managed to work around the very few limitations it forces me into, to a point I don't even feel those limitations anymore since I play differently than anyone else).

Making me play with binds would not only be about getting used to switching to this or that weapon with the "finger dance" some people called it, but it would also force myself to play a different game, which would probably put me off my game for an even longer time.


Also to the people who compared it to moba's: that's just wrong aswell. in FPS I lay my fingers on WASD + shift + spacebar. On mobas there's no movement keys, there's just your mouse: point and click. So you lay your fingers on QWER and there's a slight slide with my index finger to go for the couple other spells. And the active items are usually 1-2-3-4, which is easy to access aswell. So those are two completely different gamestyles and it isn't comparable at all.

You need this


http://stinkyboard.com/

why? are you rolling the mousewheel with your index finger? you could bind fire to M2 (since you jump on space) or roll with middle finger.

I roll with middle finger and fire with index ofcourse, but it feels awkward to press both at the same time.

It's easier and smoother to aim and shoot just using the index finger. Then again it's not that I cant do it, I can, but it feels crap

troll?

Obvious troll is obvious.

Sorry but why would they care about the very few players who still switching guns with mousewheel? Besides, it's not like it's that hard to switch to binds, took me a few days at most to get used to it...

you're young, I cba.

Besides you're right, and the opposite is true aswell, why would I care to play their game that doesnt fit me when there is about a thousand quake clones ? :/

Just stop making a fuss about a comment like its the end of the world if I dont play it or smth ?

If you want to play Quake, QL is the only option sadly.

I don't think anyone cares wether you'll play it or not... but you're implying "If it's going to be fastswitch then you're killing the game" because 'noobs and dem0n switch with mousewheel'... I think that's the part of the comment where people make fuzz about.

Apparently they do care, look at the outrage...

I'm just saying it's a shame because nah, I won't play it if it's got too much of a fastswitch.

And yeah, noobs play FPS with their scrollwheel to change weapons, MOBA's or not, as I've explained above.

Then again they won't mind cause they'll get raped either way, won't see a difference if they find it difficult to compete because of fastswitch, so I was a little bit over the top with that comment.

I think it would be a bit sad if they took the ability away. Binds partly determine parts of your style. As a mouse1 fire, mouse2 jump guy - I tried out notcits cfg a while ago (space is fire, cant remember the rest) and your style does change. rockets felt great too.

I know my binds make me predictable as fuck.

Quite a few high end players has some weird setups. mouse +foward, arrows keys, etc.

bind mwheelup LG
bind mwheeldown RL
bind mouse3 rail

and just stop using plasma/sg/nades etc.

Problem solved imho.

I love PG too much

EDIT: LG would be wheeldown then, makes more sense to me :D

I thought so at first too... Untill I played with it and I instinctively wanted to take RL by turning the mwheel towards me.
I hate the pressing of the mwheel though so I actually bound rail to Q and E... (depending on which way you're moving you always have a finger free to press either Q or E ;p

I haven't heard about Reflex before, but this shit looks pretty cool!

it's time to come back to the arenas !

wow, this guy plus whoring

<insert here dirty joke about Vo0 vs fatal1ty>

Only because I couldn't find you -- get on #reflex and send me a PM.

if i get invited, we should play some! for old times sake ;)

I like what I see.
Keep it up, you have my support

Looks good so far, not sure about reborn any more, looks a bit too over complex, but this is nice and simple, who knows though, next couple of years will be very interesting for fast paced fps.

it looks really great, actually for me it is the only game worth supporting out of tens announced project recently
i am looking forward to see next updates and news about reflex

just one question, how will be the matchmaking system handled? i mean do you plan to create a global infrastructure with master servers, ladders, player accounts and so on? i know it is maybe too soon to thing about it specifically or you just do not want to tell yet but maybe some overall ideas?

Glad you're excited because people being excited is what stops us from burning out ;)

In a very broad sense, yes, we'll have master servers, (regional) ladders, player accounts and so on. The exact way we'll be doing the infrastructure hasn't been decided yet -- being on Steam might give us access to a far more powerful network than we could afford to support ourselves but we haven't yet looked in to how much of our plans can be done through Steam and how much we'll need to spin up our own servers for.

Even I'm very excited, and I think CPM is stupid! :D
I just hope that you don't totally clone CPM, that's all. Aside from that, I'm very impressed with everything you've done. Looks amazing!

Kickstarter this shit before someone else does with a similar thing.
As far as gameplay goes I'd love to have more like the middle of vq3 and cpm movement, this one looks fully cpm'ish - but I realise that you won't change it. Also I beg you don't copy any of the existing maps or anything like that from old games. Make that enviroment and everything brand new. Don't implement as many changeable commands as quake had. Several gfx cmds are really enough + some nice and fluid in-game options instead of whole editable configs that have so much influence to the game.
Make it simple, without bugs, with nice and clean client. Not too many options and fancy stuff but every single thing working perfectly. From that playable base you will then be able to let it grow and make it grow yourselves.
Ah and I hope you realise that you need much better sounds, right? Like in every aspect. Guns, models don't really sound too good in this video.

When you will finally realease some alpha or demo for public, I advise you to think about second server or something that would be meant for testing stuff and then you could try out there all the new stuff and even some random shit that you could implement later on. That would be accesable for like really few people but they could give you opinions and stuff before you make stuff go into the main client.

Existing maps will end up in the game one way or another -- if we don't make them, the community will. That said, supporting mappers making new maps and getting those new maps in to the official pool is a really high priority once more people have gotten their hands on the game -- that's why we've designed the mapping tools the way we have.

We've also got plans about how to get the community involved giving map feedback and helping decide which maps make it in to the official pool and hopefully we'll have the budget to reward mappers who contribute to the game.

Oh and the sounds are all placeholder, much like everything in the game so far ;)

It'd be really nice to officially have aerowalk and others, included into the game, in an improved form.

As you said they certainly are going to be played in Reflex, so might as well have it officially and take the chance to make them better, especially graphics-wise. That wow factor.

We've got half of the permission we'd need to include Aerowalk. We (obviously) don't mind having a few remakes in because to be honest, these maps are really good. Yeah, they've been played a million times, but they're still solid. As long as there are also new, quality maps included as well, I'm happy.

One of the problems with it though is that people tend to stick to what they know so give them 30 duel maps + Aerowalk and they'll vote Aerowalk. I think the scene is starting to break away from this slightly though since there are new QuakeLive maps that definitely get played.

We also don't plan to take the approach of "Here are our 30 maps, no go make your own". Hopefully we'll be able to work with map authors release new maps for each game mode every few months and strip out maps that are no longer played.

I'd love it if we could have a "callvote map random" command that could actually be used with some confidence ;)

Nice.

Just take into consideration the idea of improving old maps, so it's not just copypasting them into the game. The official release is the chance to do that and be played by everyone.

Improvements can be the map having a fitting style with the game, be more detailed (decorative additions), better quality textures, maybe change the layout a bit, among others.

For example and weirdly enough, dm13 actually looks better in Q3 than in QL. Secondly, watch this at 15:33 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h20CI-LcA4

The style, detailed and better quality textures will be true for every map we release.

will there be gore?
will there be mods?

the map editing that's shown in the first vid looks very neat. Would be awesome if that was possible during warmup in actual servers.

will there be gore - http://www.reddit.com/r/ArenaFPS/comments/2dj...bs/cjq4p2i

will there be mods - http://www.reddit.com/r/reflex/comments/24bof...ng/ch5tlis

the mods thing might have changed now, I dont know, thats an old post

Very nice, I hope they will change sound effects and add more models

Yes to both.

So how about that netcode?
Could you please make clients extrapolate the nmy possition in a decent way in order to keep the server in a consistent state?
Because inconsistency on the server sux.

shouldnt be a problem if they stick to 120+ tickrate

atm they are using 40 (mentioned above).

And btw... it matters regardless of tickrate. Even if you'd now fix QL to sv_fps 120, it would still suck.

After reading all of Weirds very informative posts on unlagged, timenudge, and netcode in general, I'd hope that the devs could add him to the mix and take advantage of a talent that Id passed over.

someone actually read all of my posts? damn :D

Let's just say I was bored

same

I will do everything to make senpai notice me : 3 :

everything? <evil smile> hrhr ;)

Weird-san is scary ; //// ;`
*tries to hide dick under skirt*

Hijacking your post to beg for 60hz servers. More would be technically nice but kinda overkill whereas 60 is kind of a sweet spot.

You're better off hijacking other posts for that... because imho it's not that large of a difference.
It kinda depends on how you do the hosting though.

If you let everyone host their own dedicated servers then 60 would be a valid option to have... But if you want people to host their own servers they should be configurable by the hoster so you should then ask them to put it to 60.
For the development itself I'd say stick to 30 or 40....

I was thinking about the finished product.

same story...

can't wait to see map textures. i hope this works out! really cheering for Jay, he's a character alright!

Looks sooooo good, I hope the Menus/UI scale properly for people playing the game on shit crt resolutions(640x480/800x600).

[+]

crt compatible and instant switch = goodbye quakeworld for me

Looking good, I hate instant weapon switch because it feels like a cop out when you get cornered or make a bad decision, but if its not instant, then I'll play this

grrr
instant is AWESOME in team games
ya don't know what ya missing, playboy

instant switch is for shittites that can't plan ahead or use the proper weapon for the situation.

nigga I played quakeworld and netquake before you were even conceived. I'd rather play quake 1 than play cpm.

That's why they're planning to work with a middle ground solution that could satisfy both parties - the switch won't be instant but at the same time the delay won't be as big as in QL.

Might be good to see how it turns out, it will still allow fast combos but remove the a bit too frantic instant switch.

nvc:
- The current weapon switch delay is set to 75ms, which is not as fast as CPM. However, all weapons, sound, art, damage, timings... everything... is subject to (and likely will) change.

dev comment: just in case it makes a difference for you, its not instaswitch. I think the aim is to get it somewhere between QL and CPMA switch speeds
http://www.esreality.com/post/2640159/n-a/#pid2639823

Yeah cuz it's brilliant to have a long and tedious 2 second switch which forces the players to hide behind corners and +bw counterstrike style. That's the way QL is going and given it's omnipotent reputation, that must mean there is no other way. I get your point.

instaswitch is for real players who wanna +forward with combos and catch off guard decrepit old fucks who can't take advantage of it

you just want to run at some guy like a pitbull, no strats? Just rush, rush rush. That shit is fine for cpm ca and quite fun but for duel? I don't see the appeal.

Yeah cause the other guy is always on the phone with his grandma, can't hear you jumping towards him and never sets himself up for some ez pz 80% lg. Never.

I want the player with the skill to have an edge, not the player with the patience. I don't think you should be able to deny a frag for 10 minutes just because you're willing to +back like a fucking pussy.

There's plenty of action in VQL but also some brain. I don't see nearly enough brain in cpm duel


Just watched this:



Was fucking boring.

Just watched this:



Was fucking boring.

ya but you picked a boring dm13 game where they were hiding.

I picked fucking rat vs vo0 a super awesome classic matchup on a sick map.

And it was still boring.

Show me some actual brainy/smart plays that cpm players make in duel. And i'm not talking about spamming an armor when its up.

Really, it's as brainy as the players want to make it. A lot of VQ3 players hit CPMA and do surprisingly well because they've spent more time on precise aim, positioning and brain game. It still works in CPMA, you just see it less because CPMA appeals to players who want a faster, broader game.

show me a brainy play in vql and explain why you think it cannot happen in cpm

Show me someone delaying an item so it doesn't syncs up with another item, so the other player doesn't get any items?

I know mega spawns if you damage the player that took it, but that's shit.

So show me someone retaking control of the map without even fighting, but by pure item control.

I'm very curious about this "retaking control of the map without even fighting". How does that happen unless the enemy is afk or he just chases you into his own item rotation? Either way instaswitch or aircontrol do not make that impossible. Furthermore I've always had the "tactic" of baiting my enemy on the GA/GL side of aerowalk so I can die on purpose and spawn on the stronger side of the map, again that is not exclusive to cpm or vq3. I'll give you the syncing items, but again that shit has nothing to do with instaswitch or aircontrol, it's because mega has a floating respawn time and you can't sync two armors when you took them both.

He retakes the map by standing at certain choke points where the enemy cannot get past or he'd do a shit load of damage to them. It's cleverly calculated so he can slip past him (silently) to get in position for the item that should be the enemies item. This is done because he delayed or synched up some items a few minutes before this push. It's planned out and executed perfectly.

That simply won't happen in cpm since people are moving too fucking fast .You can't plan shit, you just go with whatever happens in game.

You slip off a platform? Fuck it, just rocketjump back up and with air control you can dodge whatever punishment the enemy tries to do.

In vq3 if you slip off you can't just rj up, you'll get raped. It's a finer line to walk, it's more punishing for mistakes.

If you rocketjump and can dodge whatever punishment the enemy tries to do either you have godly dodge or a shitty enemy. Either way I don't see a problem with the person with the skill coming on top. But you want to see rapha play passive and go "oooooooh, such braen, he just stood there and he hit 50 lg on an enemy moving in a straight line, imma call dat nigga patton". Pathetic.

You don't seem to grasp his arguement. I'm not suprised. You seem stupid. And the current rather slowish game is not entirely a vq3 problem but much rather due to stupid spawnsystem ;).

I am stupid. Explain his argument please.

in cpm3a there are many situations where after getting YA u drop down to red and then you take red, sometimes i delay red so the other player thinks he'll be able to pickup red in the next cycle while im going way too greedy with the ya as well, when i go down to the RA room and he's there waiting the red with nothing, so either he gets fragged or runs away for another cycle, and this is just a very particular example.

Mega is shit? really? I prefer to keep my hp above 100 and control one armor if possible, than having the rest of the map without mega. The fact it wont spawn while u're above 100 gives you the pace of the game, having mh gives u a lot of room to "slow" down the game if u will. The other player has to guess whether u go down 100 or not, you KNOW it for sure.

Retaking control without fighting is not possible in cpm? Maybe you think so because of the nature of the maps, most of them are small, fast and items are pretty close to each other. You can do this in other maps like cpm15, cpmztn, eizdm4-b15, etc... Sadly there aren't many players who want to play something else than fucking aero (lets be honest here, can you take control back in QL aero without fighting or exchanging rails?)

Dude, download cpma and play some games against different players on different maps if you really want to make a valid point, sometimes i believe people think that in cpma we all play like hal9000 or something, he has a very unique way to cpm, doesn't mean we all have the mechanical skills to do the same, each person figures out the game differently. cpm gives u more options and the easier one is to rush like a headless chicken but it doesn't mean it's the more effective one.

The way the game is played goes inside the players, however we are only a bunch of them.

I stopped playing cpm in 1.1 (around there) after they made stair jumps 2x harder. So annoying.

And yes I think most players and gamestyle is hal9000 shit.

Gimme some vods of your points and I might learn somethings

https://www.youtube.com/user/SIHdW3W


Again, you're watching only one player (me). There's streaming VoDs in there (those are the most recent games) but you can find lots of different maps and games in my channel since i've been uploading just for myself to analize demos and shit while im incredibly bored and im not at home (like right now).

I started cpm in 08 and maybe hal9000 looked like a model to follow back then but i ate demos from gellehsak, fox, rat, vampire, you can really see they have a reason to make certain decisions and my style has been addapting as i saw more demos.

negged for posting a PRACTICE GAME from like 2004





haven't watched the rat/vo0 game yet, but i'm sure there was strategy involved, it probably just flew over your head

This is a better game than the one I posted, but I still don't like how you can literally chase people down across the whole fucking map.

I can watch this but it'd be so fucking annoying to play. It's like i'm watching a toxicity game (but its every single map of cpm) and the only way to break control is by doing insane damage.

I like how Rapha retakes control without even fighting niggas, that's godly.

CPM strategy:
Get rocket launcher and jump at other guy. If rockets don't hit and I get super close to him and am touching his ass with my face, then switch to lg or rail or shotgun to get out of danger.

Also spam the FUCK out of all items, rocket, then grenade, then rocket then grenade.

And then of course run past him and shoot him and strafe away into teleporter where i'll whip out lg and spam it. When he comes through i'll change to rail and get that ez combo.

The strategy for cpm doesn't go over my head, I see everything they do and its boring as fuck

That's, like, your opinion man

you cant deny weapons
you cant do any truly amazing jumps/rjs
you cant even deny ammo packs in the new update
you can barely do any combos and weve seen all the combos already 10 times in q3

congrats on having one thing over cpm

clap clap

btw, what happened to rapha @qcon after he picked up control without damage? he got toxinated, thats what

Don't get bitter, It's just different tastes. Since i'm an all aim player, I don't get impressed by aim games, only brain games.

CPM duel bores me but I acknowledge that it does take skill and can be fun to watch if you are looking for action only.

I think it's ironic to read comments like this from the same community that gets all stirred up when minecraft players claim quake is nothing but jumping and shooting robots. They are clueless about the metagame and stating that cpm is so plain just because it has some physics tinkering is absurd.

I like my variety in quake3/live. Certain players have different play styles. Some are heavy with rail (k1llsen) and some will prefer lg/rush(evil), or tactics (rapha) etc etc

I'm not sure CPM gameplay can be varied in such styles.

Sure different players have different tricks on the maps but I'm not seeing some individuality as we see in vq3.

Take k1llsen for example for him to play his rail style, he's not going to win. Niggas move too fast, they will be right in his face every damn time with rocket + combos.

It will effectively render his style useless.

Tactics? Not many when some faggot just jumps right through your clever ambush, after trying to disappear on the map for 4 minutes.

lg/rush? Nobody does that because you can lg/rocket/lg/rail in the same time, so pure lg attacking is dead.

etc etc

"Take k1llsen for example for him to play his rail style, he's not going to win. Niggas move too fast, they will be right in his face every damn time with rocket + combos."

A perfect opportunity to develop a new, unique gameplan and to further improve your movement skills. I'd like to think

"Tactics? Not many when some faggot just jumps right through your clever ambush, after trying to disappear on the map for 4 minutes. "

Another situation where you need to improve your tactic and instead of hiding for 4 minutes, find a more suitable and quicker hiding spot.

instant weapon switch is a bit too radical though, I'm going to agree with that. Combat just seems too hectic when someone is pumping 3 different types of projectiles and rails at someone at the same time.

We don't have instant weapon switch, we have "really really fast" weapon switch.

I know and I appreciate that - I always thought QLs switch delay was a bit too long - that's another reason why I'm excited about reflex :)

Yeah, I've always found it a bit brutal. I don't like being pretty much locked in to using a weapon.

Yeah, you want to punish people for bad switches or running out of ammo but not that harshly. And yeah, you want to reward people for correctly anticipating which weapon to use but not that lavishly.

That said, I've spent far more time in QW and CPM so I probably switch too much in VQ3 ;)

The switch delay we've got now is feeling really good so far.

> This is a better game than the one I posted, but I still don't like how you can literally chase people down across the whole fucking map.

It's the mentality of this style of game -- if you've got the advantage, you push that as hard as you can. If someone spawns and is vulnerable, you hunt them down. If someone mistimes an item, you punish them as they move away from it. And if someone backs well.. they must be low on health, or ammo, or going for an item.. so you chase them.

You don't really escape by just putting distance and walls between you and them. You punish them for chasing or you survive long enough that they prioritize map control over an extra frag.

And perhaps I'm just a sick fuck, but I like it that way.

In this latest build that people are showing, you can hear the enemy players low ammo beeps, you can hear the "click" as they fire with no ammo and there is no automatic switching away from an empty weapon.

If you're not paying attention to your ammo and you're not ready to switch to a new gun, for some reason people sit there for a second or two, repeatedly trying to fire an empty gun like it might magically start working.

And we actually had a lot of fun during playtesting with it -- actual, laugh out loud fun. You'd be on low health and retreating and then the person chasing you run out of ammo and you could turn around with an evil grin, say "click click click motherfucker" and smash them for not backing off when they had the chance.

Anyway, once again, it's not really that you can't have that kind of play you're after in Reflex/CPM, it's just that its rare -- people who want it can get it in VQ3 so usually do. But people who want a faster pace can't have it in VQ3, so they play CPMA. But you really can play both inside CPM/Reflex and both styles really can be evenly matched.

I might get this info wrong but I'm sure someone here will correct me: During the last Master's Cup, HAL9000 was a lot of people's pick to win. He has a freakish ability to move insanely fast around maps, happily doing 180 flick rails mid-jump. In short, he is the CPMA stereotype down to a tee. And that's cool, its often amazing to watch and a fun way of playing.

But someone (gelle? gaiia?) managed to beat him by playing a slower, more technical, methodical, precise and dare I say.. VQ3ish game.

And as much as I admire the way HAL9000 plays, I was kind of worried when I first saw it because my thought was that CPMA gameplay had been "solved". Finding out that wasn't true after a decade of being played was amazing.

Anyway, I believe that there is room for both play styles in Reflex, (even when pitted against each other) and the reason you don't see it more often in CPMA is because each style has it's own game to play. But movement doesn't inherently beat aim. Positioning doesn't inherently lead to control. Precision isn't inherently better than reaction.

The player who has the most mastery of all possible skills will ultimately be the winner.

Any link or vod of that matchup?

Also what's the item times like? Will you do 9:xx so you have for timing with feeling or will you keep a regular clock. And mega spawning after damage? or a normal time?

It might be this one, but I need sleep so I'm not watching it now.

There is no way I'm starting a giant ESR argument about the clock after midnight =P

Mega spawn will be after damage to keep it out of any item running loops / prevent stacking etc but we're going to make sure there's some kind of effect when the megahealth wears off so both players have an equal opportunity to time its respawn.

Eh, watching reflex vods last night I was like " either they put a clock in or they don't but they just can't keep that fucking 16*32 pixels doodle in the corner of the screen, that'd be such a dick move. "


Keep the tiny-ass clock for the fuck of it :D

We're hoping its obvious that our HUD has seen pretty much zero love so far -- it works, that's all we need for now ;)

I watched the game, the movement and aim were very cool but it just reminded me of two top level ca players that talked shit to each other in clan arena and then one of them said 1v1 duel fgt? and they agreed and went to duel and just +forwarded each other.

Just zzzzzz for me. But I think i'd def play reflex for ctf/ca and other modes.

Aptly described.

I'm a QL nab but that map doesn't look like it's ceiling for positional masterminding is very high. You know where your opponent is or you know he's in one of two places which will readily become apparent pretty much the entire time.

most cpm maps are like that size though, which means all the games are going to be like that

obligatory.

One game I'd definitely love to try
Despite playing more QL I still have cpma and play some cpm22
would love to play this

Looks nice for an alpha (only watched 20 seconds cause i cant afford to wait 3 minutes more so the next 20 seconds are loaded, 10mb download connection so problem isnt on my side)

I would nerf air control a little so its not as slow as running but also not as fast as strafejump, and add crouchsliding which would maintains total momentum thanks to supermagnet tech on the boots, but being harder to do than bunnyhoping (not only u need jump but also crouch, etc)

Twitch VODs sucks ass, true

how much more are you going to iterate on these maps? bringing these maps up to the visual standard that UE4 (thats the engine right?) can deliver will take alot of time and effort... what about new maps?

Its not UE4, its their own engine written from scratch.

ah ok, looks nice then good job. still my question remains though - how much are they going to dedicate to getting the old cpm maps up to a decent standard?

"Lots"

We'll be showing some of our environment concept art once we hit Kickstarter that will give you a better idea of how our maps will ultimately look. We're trying to strike a balance between "looks pretty" and "can actually tell what the fuck is going on".

Since finding that balance is hard (and a bit up to people's preference), we'll also have a "high contrast" setting that brings the map down to a similar detail level to what you see now. This means no more 10 console commands to increase the readability of a scene. It also won't require any kind of Quake3-like vid_restart so you can instantly switch between high-contrast/not-ugly modes when you're spectating or watching a replay.

This is just my little wish, but I'd love to see another arena FPS with a characteristic visual style on par with the original Quake series. Think different! :D You have the best platform, do something really creative! Don't just stick with the vanilla tech theme :D