Cant wait til this game goes public. Really looking forward to trying some team modes.

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ermahgerd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

a new aliens you say?

"One!"

Also - https://twitter.com/entik_/status/512847373576728576

dat screenshot is so cool

cool, i really wait for this

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hype :D

360 grand? Ehhhh

250k eu 320k usd

Well. http://www.reddit.com/r/reflex/comments/2gx921/kickstarter/

[img1]

so $62 usd for pre-alpha?..

I bit. Fuck it. It looks pretty sweet. Prototype here I come.

I'm about to... but I just hate buying things I have to wait more than 3 days for :)

Yea, it's a pledge for the prototype in December. Will it even hit 360k? I don't even know. It's a pretty safe pledge, really. If it makes it, awesome! If it doesn't, no skin off your back.

Good sales pitch ;) see you in prototype

its actually aud

if it doenst make it do we get our money returned? they are asking for a lot. prototype is tempting but its a little expensive

Yes, if it doesn't make 360k, you don't even get charged. It doesn't take money from your card unless it succeeds. So you can even pull out right before the 30 days if you feel you don't want to pledge any more.

Oh, thanks for that information!

https://twitter.com/notch

lets hit this guy up before the buzz of becoming a billionaire wears off.

OMGOMGOMG
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/191095869/reflex
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/191095869/reflex
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/191095869/reflex
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/191095869/reflex

its so good.

80 AUD from me.

Aircontrol? Not gonna play it.
Robots that gib into blood?

Someone's catering for a very specific audience and that audience is already catered with a plethora of these clones.

so your choice is to let the arena shooters die.

Yes, it's my choice not to play arena shooters with aircontrol.

soon you will be not able to play ANY arena shooter.

You need to look at whole thing. If there will be one game like this again big or just bigger more devs will try to do similiar game.

You're acting as if this is the definitive option. I'll always be able to play arena shooters if I want, there's literally never no one who wants to play any of other arena shooters. The only thing that will be missing is the suspense of competition, but I didn't get any of that from the trailer video in the kickstarter.

arena shooters clearly don't doing well and need some popularity. Current playerbase of all arena shooters is just bad.

I dont like much UT but I will support it too.

Do yourself a favor and learn air control.

aircontrol is the shit! cpm movement is so much fun once you get the hang of it!

i'm sure the gibs are work in progress :)

I played cpm and warsow, and got the hang of it. I still prefer vq3 physics.

They don't have the robot gibs yet....... . .. . .... . . . .. .. . ... .. . it's pre-alpha

but u r smert do

No, it's a typical "Quake 3 had blood and now it's gone in Quake Live" whine that the devs are trying to pick up on.

No, newborn has said multiple times that there will be different gibs for robots. He mentioned something about fire and oil or something. I really am not sure why you just state random things that pop into your head as fact.

Ok, nice different gibs, that's not shown in the video, it clearly shows blood. They could've easily made it black for an oil appearance but they didn't. But this is just a minor thing that I noticed given the fact that a lot people whine about blood being removed from Quake Live.

Can you stop with that tendency of that last sentence of yours, that doesn't promote discussion but rather as a flamebait to which I won't bite. You think I'm just writing things at "random"? It's just a observation. Also the "but u r smert do" in that previous post of yours doesn't really contribute to the discussion.

Stop whining about stupid shit and you won't get treated like a retard. As if they're not going to reach their $360,000 goal because red gibs come out of a robot.

To be fair your first comment hardly invited discussion, more like it staged controversy.

Moreover, it is not inconceivable that a mechanoid could gib blood, because it could be a cyborg: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyborg

Yeah it could be a cyborg, but from my impression so far it seems like it's robots. Well only the devs knows it so far.

My point is not really that it is a cyborg or that it is not, my point is that in the birthing stage of the creation of a three dimensional world in exponentially increasingly limitless virtual space, one can and should overlook insignificant details such as blood coming out of robots, lest this lack of imagination in the most benign and unrestricted of subjects present itself in other aspects of ones life.

I guess so since this is not a realistic shooter. Still hard to look past when watching the video, oh well. I do like the effect of the gib though.

Kind of wondering what kind of robot would squirt so much oil that it would match bleeding. The kinds of robots that can rocket jump and wiggle in air perhaps.

3 choices is a plethora now? one of those choices is a mod, too.

you realize ql is losing good players left and right and that a lot of them will be coming to reflex, right?
And that your precious e-sports scene is starting to dryup(faceitwho?) as well.
have fun owning all the noobs in ql. well, until id software pulls the plug, of course

Way overdramatic.

1.- QL on steam seems to be doing better than before, even without advertising there. Might not 'need' to switch in first place.
2.-There's literally around 20 'arena' fps games in development, so reflex is not necessarily 'our savior'. Out of those at least 5 are way, way, way more likely than reflex to become the main game of ESR for years to come.
3.- While we all like to say all games but QL are dead, in reality there's tons of already viable choices out there, for just pub play and small leagues and cups, way more active than CPM too.
4.- Most likely reflex won't be on ESL, dreamhack, quakecon and others, so is there even a point e-sports wise? It's quite safe to say it will be even less active than QL competition wise, because QL in 2014 at least has one major lan (reflex will be in none) and a major online daily tournament (125 fps)..

Back this game up if you like it, including CPM-like gameplay, not because it's our only hope or anything like that.

Not that all this wall of text matters. There's absolutely no way the $360k goal will be achieved, unless notch backs up $300k or something, so they will receive no money and the project will sink. That goal on kickstarter wasn't achievable. Maybe give it a second try after it fails, now with a goal that's 10% of that?

1) of course it's doing good, it's on its first week with steam. lol

2) name those 5 games. UT was the only one i've seen(besides reflex) with the potential to usurp ql. warxon looked okay, but it's gameplay development seemed even further behind reflex, so i'll reserve judgment.

3) i am not playing any new arena game for small league play. why play shit like toxikk for nothing when i could play quakeworld for 'nothing' and enjoy myself a lot more. whichever game replaces ql will have to have an esports scene to keep me and most others here interested. right now, ut and reflex are the only two that look good enough(gameplay wise).

4) way too early to make any guesses

1) Strong so far and stronger than reflex and cpm will ever be, 10 times over.

2) http://esreality.com/post/2634035/list-of-upc...fps-games/
1. Doom 4
2. UT 2014
3. Reborn
4. BlueStreak (professional team + funding + one of the most important game devs ever)
5. Chroma (sounds gay but it has the potential of becoming bigger than all others).

Realize in which category reflex is ("Smaller more indie titles with smaller budgets and very little name recognition:") and that it's actually less developed than the others on that category. Reflex truly is one in 20, at the bottom of the table, nothing more.

3 and 4) Reflex will not have an "esports scene", period. Do you really see this game in ESL's IEM? Really? ... Really?

5) The project will not be funded by any means whatsoever, unless a miracle happens, so it will never be released in the extent they want to. It's pointless to discuss reflex really: it already failed, today.

5) It's pointless to discuss reflex really: it already failed, today.

then why spend any time attacking? you scared, huh ;p

doom4 will be too consolized(if the reports are accurate) for esports
ut has a good chance
reborn - doa unless big changes are made
i'll look into 4/5 before i make any judgement

That's not an attack. Also the affirmation is correct: see it yourself, considering that if they don't reach the goal they won't receive a penny and people's interest will last only a couple of days. As I said, reflex already failed: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/191095869/reflex

Quake3, Quake4 and QL were consolized too, all which were the core here for 15 years and counting. They are not painkiller, you know.

Also doom4 on the PC was highly praised when they showed it at quakecon, it's already more or less finished and doom is a bigger franchise than all other on the list combined, so it certainly has a lot more potential than reflex.

If I were to make a prediction for late 2015, I'd say the majority of the community will stay in the still going QL (all these days has had a constant increase in players), which will have microtransactions by that time, while some will try out and embrace multiplayer doom4. Depending on how the multiplayer is liked and on sells, it might be in some "esports" events like IEMs and others. It will be like the quake4 days, replacing Q3 in most major events and being in lets say 4 a year, while Q3 still had more players and still had some competitions too (at least one or two a year).
The new UT was never a hit here so the new UT won't as well; they are separate communities. Also I don't see it being an esports hit, same that happened in the Q3 days (Q3 was 10 times more of an 'esports' game than UT).
The Cliffy B game will be in some competitions, so the 'mercenaries' will treat it as the new cashcow like shootmania, doom3, painkiller or nexuiz. No one here will play it.
Reborn still won't be finished. However, it will be reach its funding goals.
Reflex and the others on that category will still be games that no one plays and that never reach a finished state, due to funding and other reasons. Just a bunch of warsow's, with the same two or three people spamming esr.

LoL
you think this one might have the best shot of reviving the scene?
LOL
way too complicated, it'll never work



quake4 = painkiller
only played for the money

quakelive will be dead on this site by late 2015.
mark my words

i'll let you have the last word if you want
i'm done here

Harmonix is the developer of some of the most popular games ever.

Everyone likes to predict QL's death, but the game has been running since 2008 lol.

We don't honestly still trust big studios to make an arena FPS game that ESR types (hardcore gamers) will enjoy for years, do we?

It's always been like this: some studio releases a well made game, then "we" tailor it to what we want via mods and by adding maps. For that a good base is required, including engine, assets and so on. We "hardcore gamers" here never play the vanilla games.

Q3 1.32 (no osp/cpma/ra3) is practically unplayable when compared to 2014 QL, Q4 pretty much sucks without q4max and not a single default map was used in competitions, .painkiller changed vastly too, q2 was awful without modding, etc.

So, I hope doom4 is quite good, that its mp is ok, open for modding and that there's interest of doing so.

Actually I agree, if doom4 will be as moddable as q3 etc., then I think it would be our best hope. But I don't think it will be and nothing id has done lately shows that it will be moddable at all. I expect nothing more than a focus on single player with an id trademarked bad story and tacked-on multiplayer.

I really wish id could get their shit together and make doom4 what it should be, I just don't think it will happen. The people in charge over at id have shown that they are clueless and it couldn't be more obvious that their agenda is to copy what others have done to make a popular console shooter. T_T

There's Warsow, Xonotic, that new Xonotic spinoff, Reflex, Reborn, Quake Live, CPMA, Quake2World, Open Arena, etc. that with their updated engines could count as clones yes.

I don't know... Maybe it's because "it's not Quake". Which has some sentiment, but all I really said is that if there is no mode without air control then I will 100% defininitely skip it, just like I'm not playing any of the above mentioned games besides the occasional "let's see what the new update offers" if they release one.

I'm pretty sure the QL infrastructure isn't going to be around for the same amount of time it's already been running and I'll probably move to a game that I like to play, not what "everyone" likes to play, even if that means there's no "precious" e-sports scene as long as it's enjoyable.

'There's Warsow, Xonotic, that new Xonotic spinoff, Reflex, Reborn, Quake Live, CPMA, Quake2World, Open Arena, etc. that with their updated engines could count as clones yes.'

warsow, xonotic, cpma
only ones on that list that had any real support and hype
CPMA was dead in the water because vq3 had all the esports money


warxon isn't out yet
reflex - ditto
reborn will never come out
quake2world - 0 hype
openarena - almost no hype

add a few hoses/tubes/pipes with a glowing red/blue/green liquid to the enemy player model (like the ones on silence, except you know, good-looking), make the gibs the same color, et voila, gibs are now hidraulic fluid instead of blood. Make it luminescent ą la glowsticks and you get an awesome visual effect as well.

As far as I know they're trying to make it a mix between cpma and ql. I hope the air control isn't as retarded as cpma.

They keep saying it will be different from cpma but we've seen no evidence of that so far. Plus the devs are die-hard cpma players. I think it will be a clone.

Definitely possible.

Backed. Looks amazing.

360 k for a game that will be dead after 2 months, wow thats a pretty good holiday for newborn or reborn or whatever his name is.

I pledged but I agree that 360k is pretty huge. I personally don't think it'll succeed to reach that. Shoulda went smaller. Ah well.

I think that this game will be huge if they do all the things they plan.

I agree, and I think if neither this, UT or Reborn aren't able to get reasonably big, then the entire subgenre can just give up the thought of getting any form of comeback, cause these titles will be able to stand up against the CoDs, CSs and Battlefields in terms of feature completeness and things modern gamers expect an FPS to have (save a progression system), and if that's not enough, then it's the gameplay nobody cares about.

The 60fps trailer looks way, way better, btw. Worth the download if you're interested in Reflex.

is it going to collect required amount? Your bets?

I think not. The hardcore group of supporters have now already backed this project (+- 400 people), and i don't think this list will grow significantly larger during the rest of the month. Their goal is simply too high. And now this: "Unfortunately, we're unable to offer PayPal pledges until we are much closer to hitting our funding goal as PayPal charges are applied instantly and returning pledges made through PayPal would be both painful and expensive ;)" which is true because PP deducts a commission on each transaction and it is indeed applied directly, which basically means no PayPal user without a CC can pledge as long as it's not nearing their goal (which imo won't happen like i said). Not sure if it's possible to change the goal amount while it's still running, but i suggest they lower it so they atleast have a certain amount of $$$ they can rely on. I do hope i'm wrong and the goal will be reached but i'm always a pessimist lol.

pretty sure they can't change it now. looks really unlikely to make it - they are not even at 10% yet.

What they can do is trying again, a second kickstarter with a lower amount. However, the devs don't want to, at least right now.

If this kickstarter doesn't work then i hope they add back that donate button so i can just donate and start playtesting the prototype :o

No I really dont think it will. It deserves too though.

Even if air control isnt usually your thing like me, Reflex is doing everything right and are some respectable guys with plenty of talent and vision.

I hope that they will instead get greenlit on steam and then release the game on steam early access and use the money from that to fund development. I'm sure a fuck ton of people will buy into that (myself included).

this is Australian dollars. It's not that much of amount of money. But seeing that 5 days have passed and not even 1/10th of amount hasn't yet been reached....I doubt that it will be succesful. :/

How can I become a tester? :D

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/191095869/reflex

backed up the second day, but who knows when the beta will be out :)

if funded... we will get it in December 2014...

if not funded... who knows :/

I'm a bit sceptical about funding it bearly went above one 10th of the amount last night....with this tempo... there will be shortage of more than a half they need....
steam greenlight without kickstarter would have been much better choice I think.

maybe they will try second time with lower cash?

Who knows...think greenlight was a better way to go...

why be skeptical? you will get your money back if they don't reach the goal so just support and hope more does it as well so they can finish the game.

And to clarify, no money is actually transferred UNLESS the kickstarter hits the goal. There are no 'refunds', essentially.

you guys need to have something pretty special up your sleeve for the rest of that coin... long ways to go gl

Where are announcement?
Updates?

KS usually fail if you don't update the KS page daily, show that you as a developer are immersed and trying HARD to sell the product.

Put the links to streams, make coverages, make interviews, make maps wiht textures playable....come on guys...SELL IT TO THE PPL.....

There was a lot of shity KS which succeded just because they updated their KS page even 2 times a day. With new videos ect.

Do something...

Completely agree. The KS campaign is being badly run.

Newborn said that he is doing this part alone. Maybe thats why.

for next 25day all can help in my opinion, its in their interest for this be succesful.

Well, that is a lot of work. I hope the other devs get invovled if that's true.

http://www.reddit.com/r/reflex/comments/2hg3b...on/cksx331

I'll pay money for a demo, I don't like this secret handshake BS that just looks they gave it to a bunch of CPM devs and fanboys.

If its an early build then let people have it, or if its not already offer it in the kickstarter now for 30 bucks or something, if you want peeps to share your enthusiasm, give them the core game to play now.

Too many broken promises these days.

Why don't you just ask someone like notch, its probably less than a days interest for him these days.

What you are saying seems to be the secret they don't want to publicly share.

One of the biggest reasons why people are donating is that the Kickstarter site says they will get access to the prototype as one of the donation rewards, while they watch some people playing it on stream, so they make a connection. However and as you say, right now the game is only given to notorious people in this scene and to their groupies, but externally it looks like they got immediate access by donating.

What those backers don't realize is that they are not getting immediate access with that donation and the rewards will be fulfilled, starting in December, only in the case the Kickstarter goal is met, which most likely is not going to happen.

The other thing the devs ("newborn" included) and people involved don't straight up say, with a direct answer, is what exactly happens if the Kickstarter fails. 2016, 2017, 2020 final build release date? Same or lower game quality? Steam release?

Few will care about this unfinished project by that time, not even most of the backers, and it's uncertain how they will make the necessary expenses to release a well made game, so how can it become the same game that's being announced/promised in the campaign.

I wouldn't call the prototype situation a broken promise nor that game won't be finally well made or released at all, making it a broken promises game like many others before Reflex, but there's a fine line indeed.


As for Notch and a miraculous safe, because lets face it without a $200,000 donation this kickstarter will fail so all gathered money will be lost, I hope that if he donates he previously realizes there are multiple projects going on and that some are closer to what Quake is than others.

Despite being marketed like that, Reflex is not the only hope or the only upcoming game following quake-ish roots(there's literally 20 other projects), other projects are more likely to succeed than this one (Doom 4, Reborn, UT, etc.), nor Reflex is what lots of backers think it is. People outside here are thinking it will be like what they remember vanilla quake was, based on what's hinted on the Kickstarter and on their little knowledge of quake itself, but it won't so they are not getting what they expect.

If I were him I'd donate towards QL, like Alexey A., faceit, ESL and many others directly and indirectly did and do, because as much criticism the game gets and deserves, in the end that's the only Quake left, that does and will have players and ever running competitions, is the only one of the current 'arena' games that's fully developed and in the end is the only game coming this decade that will be similar to the original Quakes. In other words, if I were Notch and wanted to donate to some 'arena' fps, I would sponsor a Quake Live LAN, like others did before (or directly talk with syncerror to give him funds to hire some external assistance for development, work that will be passed as his own).


As for looking into the future, QL evidently will die in some years, since there will be a time when it stops having green numbers and syncerror himself will get assigned onto bigger projects as leader, with the gained experience from QL (Quake 5?).

Then, the only other most certain future of this community is Doom 4. Firstly it's the most serious project of the upcoming 'arena fps' games, a reputable franchise, years of actual development and whatnot, making it a candidate for the best as a game, most sells (more players) and most potential for years to come. Secondly, those facts don't necessarily mean it will be e-sports or competition friendly, but if the game has the ability to modify it and if people decide to mod it then that's where "we" should go. All that means that if you look into the future you shouldn't fund reflex but fund doom4 modding instead.

As for the other big names, UT is just too different and so will be the other projects funded by investors, including Bluestreak, Chroma and Dirtybomb, among others. Probably all will succeeded, but it's not the same we are looking for nor what's historically on "e-sports" events.

Finally there's reborn, which is the inspiration from reflex as a project, what started this whole new arena fps trend and what was supposed to be the future, by making a new game of the genre, that's not a copypaste of previous others and is focused on competition. The latter maters a lot here, since no 'arena' fps, fps game or even any game ever ever has been focused on creating the very game from scratch with the intent on it becoming a sport (a real one), so reborn has massive potential, above everything else.
However, after some years it seems like it won't be the future, since reborn is merely a side project and 2gd refuses to try out a Kickstarter, at least just for partial and initial funding. Oh well, QL and Doom 4 it is, as always.


edit: Actually another things lots of people here don't realize is that:
1) Reflex will be a paid game, a fact conveniently not mentioned in the kickstarter site. It will have a one payment, that likely won't be able to be avoided like in Q3/CPMA. Also most likely it won't be have a physical copy; only online payments. Both are huge detractors to lots of people here.
2) It's not what cpm people expect the game to be. Reflex can' and won't be the same as cpm, since it's a different engine and they are making some changes, the game won't run on their Q3-only toasters, there will be a lack of maps and of overall content when compared to cpm and defrag, it will be paid (unlike any other game in this subgenre) etc.
3) It's not what quake players yet outsiders to cpm think it will be either. They expect a new game, but it won't be. If you have played and understood how to play cpm (those are different), then what you'll encounter is what warsow is to cpm, even closer since there will be more gameplay and maps similarities, just with better graphics.
4) The competitive scene will be as nonexistent, dead, as QL's is at this point, which is only one major lan a year that no one outside here cares about. Heck even that is wishful thinking, because I don't see reflex consistently in even one lan a year with $20,000 in prizes, in today's money. People can argue I can't know for sure, but it's obvious for many reasons, or argue that quake is not dead, but in reality if alexey a stops funding then the game comp side dies and the little remaining activity is only in europe.
5) Every time I read that kickstarter it's just evident there's a huge lack of info, so people are bound to be disappointed. No dates whatsoever, even in the case of reaching the goal, no nowhere near specific info on the developers, actually twisting their resumes quite a lot so backers don't realize the said senior roles were in unknown gba games, no one was a project leader and none was really involved as developer in cpm nor in quake nor in quake mods nor in any fps game nor in any competitive game, if multiplayer at all; etc. etc. You can say a lot of crap about id software, reborn developers or about cliffy b (bluestreak), but they are proven.

Can't respond to all of this now but I want to point out a few areas where it's wrong or very misleading:

- People will only believe they get the prototype immediately if they a) have no idea how Kickstarter works, AND b) don't read the pledge tier descriptions before pledging. Each one has a very clear 'Estimated delivery' date. (For example, the estimated delivery for the prototype tier is December 2014). Surely it is okay to expect people to read the few lines of text that describe what they are paying for.

- If some backers don't understand that the transaction only goes through if the target is met, that won't cause them to lose anything -- if the target is not met, their money stays with them, and if it is met, they get what they expected anyway.

- "No dates whatsoever, even in the case of reaching the goal" is simply false. As above, there is an estimated delivery date listed for every pledge tier, which means that there are dates for the prototype, alpha, beta and final release. Apparently these are conservative estimates, i.e. they expect to be quicker than that but don't want to over-promise.

- Why on earth do you expect them to have presented a precise plan for what they will do if the Kickstarter fails? What they owe their potential backers, and what they have done, is to give clear and honest estimates of what will happen if it succeeds. If it fails, no money changes hands and everyone is back where they started. Then they can move on to plan B, and explain to people what this means. (In any case, they have given some information about what happens in the case of KS failure: development will slow down but continue, and IIRC they will seek funding through Steam Early Access if possible, and/or something similar.)

As far as I can tell the rest is just speculation and random opinions about X currently-nonexistent game being better than Y. Not sure how to respond about some people's expectations being wrong. Of course they will be if they just take a guess and don't read or watch anything about the game, but the information (including plenty of gameplay videos from the prototype) is out there and being actively spread, not hidden.

In general terms, c'mon this kickstarter still lacks lots of info when compared to others. It was way worse in day 1, btw. Particularly, all the info is put in such a way that people can be lead to believe things that aren't exactly like they are put.

What you have to understand is that not everyone has the info that we do, which is lurking ESR and chats, knowing the context and understanding the gameplay, and googling some info.

For example so far it seems like I'm the only one here that google'd the developers' names, which ends up in them almost lying about their CV's because none has developing experience on anything remotely similar to Reflex, though it's indeed presented that way.

Also seems I'm the only one that went into the sites in which Reflex has been advertised, to see how the game is presented outside here, which is not like Q3 cpm or as a new project, but straight up as vanilla Q3, which it isn't.

Anyway, we'll see how Reflex turns out, both in the kickstarter (a couple of days) and as a finished game (2017). I think the kickstarter will fail and that the game will be another warsow or q3 cpm: a failure.

And then the supporters will blame the game's failure on the fact that the KS failed and nothing more. Cause, you know, all a games needs is lotsa development money to succeed. Of course!

>.>

The estimated delivery dates have been there from day 1.

I don't see why you would accuse them of 'amost lying about their CVs'. There doesn't seem to be anything close to a claim that they've worked on similar projects (except for Newborn of course, who did work on CPMA). Of course they're going to present themselves in a favourable light, but as long as they don't tell any lies (which I don't think you've actually accused them of doing) or say actively misleading things (of which you haven't given any evidence) then I'm not sure what the problem is.

As for the supposedly misleading advertising, you'll have to provide some examples. Obviously if they've claimed somewhere that it's a VQ3 clone that's wrong, but I highly doubt they've done anything of the sort. Presenting it as Quake-like, on the other hand, is entirely accurate, and from the perspective of people who haven't been following the arena fps genre closely (who are the ones you seem to be worried about here), Reflex is extremely similar to Q3. Anyone who cares about the differences between VQ3 and CPM can tell from watching a few seconds of the main promo video that Reflex is closer to the latter.

Obviously the Kickstarter looks likely to fail, yes. Your prediction about the game itself is meaningless though.

Critical thinking is a good thing, and I know it is easy to get carried away with hope and expectation, but you really do seem to have an agenda here.

Agreed with foctis. A few additions:


Don't use literally like that (Unless you have actually counted them and they are at least 20, I'm too lazy to check).
You can't blame the devs if for some reason people see the videos, and read the text, and for some odd reason still refuse to believe what they just saw, and asume the game is completely different.

Second of all, how do you know what other people think, or know about QUAKE, or what they expect?


Why is Doom 4 more serious than other projects? And how do the previous games in the franchise guarantee this game will be of the same quailty? Besides that there's a lot of 'if's' about competitive play, while Reflex (and others) will ship with competitive features.


I don't understand how it's relevant that they are too different (from what?). Besides, Dirtybomb is based on RtCW and ET gameplay, which, historically, WERE played at e-sports events.


No, just no. Reflex goes WAY back, even further back than Reborn. It is easy to think of Reflex as a copy paste of cpm (even though you said it's not?...) because of it's current state using CPM as a base, but you seem to be forgetting that they have already said over and over that the gameplay is subject to change.
In the end you say it'll be QL and/or Doom 4, as it alwas was, even though just before that you said reborn would be the future because it brings new gameplay to the table. So why not fund Reflex, which will bring new gameplay to the table?


I thought this was pretty clear really.
And your point about physical copies is all speculation.


How do you know what 'CPM people' expect it to be? Besides, it wouldn't be impossible to re-create cpm in any other engine.
You also can't possibly predict there will be a lack of maps compared to anything at this stage... the mapping tools aren't finished, and even while they aren't, the current testers are pumping out maps faster than they ever have for CPM.


Again, how do you know what other people expect? You can only really speak for yourself here.

Point 4 is speculation.

I think it's pretty safe to say that Reflex is a continuation of the PMX project which the dev's wanted to eventually get to standalone but didn't have the resources to do so.

This is what I meant with Reflex goes way back. ;)

PMX was meant to be quite different from CPM as well as far as I know.

About the word "literally", http://www.esreality.com/post/2634035/list-of...fps-games/
There's more than those as well, some already released. All of those games can be Reflex, or more than it.

People outside here don't think of quake or of reflex like we do. They don't know how to even move to the very slightest. To put it this way, non hardcore quakers see the quake franchise as we see doom, while reflex goes beyond quake itself in terms of being over the top (a second step), so in actuality reflex is not what they think it is by any means.
That's why no advertising about reflex has shown the game as it really plays within people that know what they are doing, toning down the gameplay videos and the lot. They purposely present the game as something it is not.
In other words, when 'outsiders' read things like "Old School Gameplay - A return to fast paced, arcade FPS! ", or "Classic single player and coop play - Fight through a campaign either or solo or cooperative with friends", they think of something completely different than we do and of what the game really is. One reason is their lack of knowledge and the other is they are misleaded by how the game has been presented so far
The same applies to the in-game map maker actually. No serious map maker will use that, but to noobs to map making it looks awesome.

Doom 4 is the only upcoming 'arena' fps that:
1) Has been on active and professional development for almost a decade;
2) It's the only upcoming 'arena fps' game that's in a near finished state;
3) Will have a proper single player;
4) Is backed up by the only major, known company on the list that sees the game as a priority; and
5) Is a known franchise and that will be advertised., which guarantees players while the rest are long shots.

All the others are either side projects or fan-made projects even, that started development very recently and are really small projects. Sorry but it's true.

Historically, the ESR community and 'e-sports' don't care about games like Dirtybomb (unless the company throws millions at it as advertising), which is why they do not count here. Again, sorry but it's true. This is the same reason why some games aren't listed on the provided link, even in the case they are closer to being an 'arena' fps than dirtybomb in terms of gameplay (shootmania and TF2 wouldn't be in it for example though they should)..

Reborn would be the future only if managed well. Problem is it currently isn't.

The kickstarter site does not say the game will be paid, which it will. Newborn only says that privately.

The lack of physical copies refers to having the game in a local store, so europeans (the current cpm population) without credit cards can have access to it. That means massively distributing it and the lot, which is quite expensive and requires investors. That's why it's evident it won't happen, so hardly speculative. I'd be willing to bet actually :P

Come to think of it, newborn didn't have that nickname before: he started using it in this campaign. Kinda sounds like Reborn - you think that's a coincidence? What about the in-game editor and releasing the prototype, just like reborn? :P

CPM and defrag maps made with cpm movement in mind have, again, 'literally' thousands of maps. More importantly, evidently not all major cpm maps will be officially in the game, for the same reason not all are in QL. That will detract cpm players from reflex.

In the end there are many reasons why the kickstarter will fail and fail hard, which is of what this thread is about. However, my personal reasons are that I know it's best to only have one project rising, that the realistic one is not reflex, that reflex is closer to CPM than it is to Q3 and we know that's not what we want as a community -otherwise we would be playing that instead-, and that I like to give credit where credit is due, which is to reborn. The whole reflex kickstarter campaign has been about ripping off reborn itself , as a project and of the decision to keep it off kickstarter, and ripping off quake's reputation too.

There's nothing more to say really. Me or you could be wrong, but that doesn't matter. What does is seeing how the kickstarter campaign will do (what this thread is about) and how reflex will be in some years from now.

If I were to predict how it will do, I think that the kickstarter campaign will fail and that there will be another form of fundraising; maybe a second kickstarter. In any case, I think in 5 years we'll see that nothing noteworthy ended up happening with Reflex, becoming yet another quake clone, praised by the same 17 people (cpm-pmx-reflex), that is just a footnote at best in terms of gameplay and of everything else.

this is some bizarre shit you are writing. I think you just hate CPMA and anything related to it

counted 18.


Again, this is pure speculation, YOU DO NOT KNOW what other people think.


And you know this how? I've asked a friend what he thinks nonetheless.

Doom 4 is the only upcoming 'arena' fps that:
1) Has been on active and professional development for almost a decade;
It has been rebooted several times, so while technically right, they didn't work on a single project for almost a decade.
2) It's the only upcoming 'arena fps' game that's in a near finished state;
How is this relevant?
3) Will have a proper single player;
You have beta access, or some psychic ability to look into the future?
4) Is backed up by the only major, known company on the list that sees the game as a priority; and
I dare say that any team that puts their project up on kickstarter sees their project as a priority.

All the others are either side projects or fan-made projects even, that started development very recently and are really small projects. Sorry but it's true.


Sigh... stop saying things are true when they are simply NOT. Games like Dirtybomb have been played at e-sports events for almost a decade.


The willingness to bet does not make it any less speculative.


The name Reflex has been used for years, and first appeared in PMX builds. Just FYI, the last PMX builds I know of are from around 2009.


No. Where do you get this info from?

The whole reflex kickstarter campaign has been about ripping off reborn itself , as a project and of the decision to keep it off kickstarter, and ripping off quake's reputation too.
You really have no idea what you're talking about.


Speculation.

kek

bur

Just for the record I'm foctis not noctis :)
(the name comes from an old 2GD + Joe show where one of them mangled the names fox and noctis together)

Ah alright, your points still stand, regardless of your name. :D

What this means in real money:

1 Aus Dollar = 0.87 US Dollar so target is: $313,200
...................0.69 Euro.........................€248,400
...................0.53 GB Pound..................£190,800

What development resources this could fund:

Salaries for UK Game Developers for example - typical starting salaries for artists/animators and programmers may be around £18,000 to £25,000. Entry-level roles, such as quality assurance tester, may attract a lower salary.
Range of typical salaries at senior level with 3-5 years' experience: £35,000 to 45,000. At the higher end of the scale, technical directors, developers, producers and team managers can earn up to £70,000 and beyond.

Source: http://www.prospects.ac.uk/games_developer_salary.htm

So you could safely fund a team of 6 full time developers for 1 year, or a team of 3 for 2 years with this target sum. This assumes that they can work from their own premises and/or "office" space is already available and they own their own IT equipment.

.

I'm just saying you couldn't do the same thing by hiring generic people in the UK

Hire in India, or China, or Eastern Europe, who cares.

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I'm just trying to make sense of the money they're after...

But from what I've seen, they've already done some good work, so it's more like what they need to keep going for another year or 2. So if they're already working on it, presumably they're already a team and they are interested and involved... It's just what they need to finish the project. I'm saying that this money would keep a team of 3 going for 2 years and a team of 6 just 1 year. Besides you can always rope some young stoner developers in to do some of the fun creative graphics stuff on the cheap and give them a chance to develop a portfolio...

2 backers for 3k AUD, one of them is Notch.

new update https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/19109586...ts/1001738

It's a shame they're making it CPMA v.2

I wonder if 2GD pledged anything...?

Aircontrol vs vq3 is like formula 1 vs rally. Yes, formula 1 is faster, but that doesnt makes it C O O L L E R for every pilot. There are pilots that prefer rally and there are those that prefer formula 1. Each to their own, comparing likes is dumb.

.

since when is reborn movement final

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None of this makes sense.

Step 1: Create CPM clone.
Step 2: Botch KS campaign.
Step 3: ???
Step 4: No profit.

Step 3 is blaming everyone and everything for not reaching the goal, when in actuality the KS campaign was badly run.

Oh come one. They could offer blowjobs and it wouldn't meet the goal.

Doesn't look like they'll reach their goal. Will they give the money back, or will they continue with what they have?

In kickstarter the money is only donated if the goal is reached. That means you aren't losing a penny and that in a couple of days Reflex will receive exactly $0.

It'd be quite brilliant if 2gd were to release his reborn campaign right after reflex fails,lol.

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it looks like you're even happy about it

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$360000 is too big money for this game at this moment. :(

Kickstarter company goes wrong without textures on maps. Casual people can't dig how good is Reflex without all these noob graphics.

"casual people" simply dont care about this type of games and thus projects like this are economically failures. do you really believe textures would more than tripple the kickstarter pledges? ^^

I believe if you want more auditory you must show more too.

The kickstarter came too early. I hope they don't make the same mistake again with Steam Early Access, and provide more than a tech demo.