best netcode i ever played is from QW

That's because it doesn't try to do anything weird to smooth movements or anything. When someone warps, it's instantly star trek grade beaming (c) daviez.

QW was unsmooth as hell when i was specting people for some reason

Ahahahehahea qw is the only game where people rage and whine if they ping 13 ms more than the opponents. Also it's totally unplayable at 100 ms. Prove me wrong.

your insane

you are retarded, thats for sh0re

is that you in the video?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9RAk1TjGGY

Just played it on 100 ms. You are wrong.

good answer :) what about the good old days of 300-400?

Didn't have internet back then, but right now, it would probably be disgusting.

I'll just say that ctf with grapple/hook requires big maps, made with aircontrolled movement and grapple in mind. For example none of QL's maps would work for grapple ctf.

Weirdly enough, in QW and in Q2 the maps clearly weren't made with that intent, but all the default ones happened to work flawlessly with hook + aircontrol. They were vertical with heights non reachable with one rocket jump (QL's maps arent), had circular hallways, long and open areas in which you really appreciate the initial boost of the grapple, distinct sections, etc. etc.


edit: Also another thing to take into account is that in those games the grapple was complementary with the QW and Q2 gameplay, the latter especially in mods with aircontrol. For instance in both you accelerated quite slowly, it was easy to lose speed (remember they didn't have clipping through corners) and the top speed was quite high, while in CPM you accelerate quite faster and you don't lose speed all the time.

This means that not only the maps matter, the gameplay does as well. Adding a hook is better in some games than in others and adding it is not always a good idea. In QW ctf is inconceivable without the grappling hook, but a battlefield game with it would be silly, in which it's actually replaced by vehicles.


So with both said:
1. Will reflex's maps support grappling hook? We don't know, but lots if not all cpm ctf maps didn't really benefit from adding a hook.
2.Is it really needed in CPM CTF or in a game based on CPM, with small maps with small areas, fast acceleration, regen and low damaging rocket jumps to the wall (among others)? Probably not.

vertical maps are definitely needed for grapple and CLAN ARENA.
all the best CA maps are vertical, too. If the team is low on time, they might be able to recycle the grapplehook ctf maps as CA maps.

nice edit
is it really needed, you say?
it's a whole lot of fun for ALL SKILL LEVELS. reflex would be smart to add one of the funnest gamemodes ever, i think.
i wish i could take back my plus

i think best 2on2 map i ever played was The Edge, or even for 1on1. sorry i don't have much experience with TDM or CTF but all TDM maps from QW for me are just awesome! i still remember when The Edge was an official map for the first ages of Q4! :)

>maps from QQ
>the edge

brrrr one

Did someone mention grapple!!! I like the ideas of introduction of features that brought a massive community loads of fun at all skill levels.

For example none of QL's maps would work for grapple ctf."

I dunno, I think Spidercrossings works just fine as in this demo to show some grapple fluidity @ 14.35.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwr3ZpPZVzI#t=875

My only worry is if it is introduced to TDM or CA. I wouldn't be into that. So if someone who has got excellent CPM skills and grapple, like this 52 second demo from this trick jumper would be rinsing newcomers (nice skillz btw):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrQjrxK40t4

Then the game could be too overpowered in DM (which includes TDM FFA CA) modes, and less retention especially for new comers.

But CTF yes for us movement noobs :), with some of the points mentioned in this post.

[CTF = "a where to be, at the right time game"] and this is so frustrating, without grapple. Satisfaction with some sort of contribution to the ultimate goal, is important, and that's what a grapple brought for all comers.


Don't read on, but other points & rants:

As long as there are "Less" stupid narrow corridor camper choke points, then everyone has a chance for fun, and less quitters.

When Threewave (/me bows down to zoid) came out in q1/qw these maps were designed with grapple in mind. Like adaption of some of the quake 1 maps, some were a tad narrow, but even this one worked (Claustrophobolis (dm2) into Capturephobopolis (ctf2m8).



They & the local Community introduced some other fantastic large maps, which with grapple mode (and other modes like DM) made the game much fun, especially for spectators, watching flag runs and chases over large open space maps. Excellent fun. Wish I had some older demos of Jaffa, who was the flag grab supremeo. Was constant attacker, had nothing but went into base constantly, and rubber band / movement / bungey gymnast his way out. Fantastic skillz.

In QW CTF League games and the like, the servers, via Qizmo were usually packed through spectator slots. With 4 x 32-64 proxy spec slots and people connecting the proxy to spec game, and chatting away. (not seen in game, but only on proxy, with loads of rofls, and enjoyment. Spectating who the proxy host was speccing, or asking them to change pov, usually was powerup / flag grab changing anyway, or freecaming. Bit like twitch these days, but more fun, and control as it was in game.)


Speed / fluid movement of some sort is of the essence, helps eliminate that one person who thinks they are good, buy hiding in a strategic static camp position, ready to start the fight first with +100 LG in the opponents back, b4 they even realise, and think that they are leet because they camp + have +40LG on their stats at end of game. (more quitters rage, because of this +backrape era) Please eliminate that part.

Combat is the most fun usually. Its the pro's who usually win this as they get the better stacks, and combined skills they have. However with grapple, or some other fluid movements, you can overturn stack by some outlandish moves. (instead of just insane rocket spam hope/flukes.) Which is where the element of Wooowhhaa, comes back into the game, and is more watchable.

PS quake 1 qw grapple speeds were the best, with the weapon balance. q2 q3 slow and saggy / laggy, and less responsive, made you at a disadvantage with the RG. Not compatible at the grapple responsiveness.

(There are few other demos on that site under netgamez, like the CTF2M8 to show speeds and swing flow of qw grapple.)

The whole point is: if the game and the maps in ctf only require a good old rocket jump to have fluid movement, then the grappling hook is not necessary and won't improve gameplay much, just would be tweaking it.

The grapple worked perfectly in QW and in Q2, for the said reasons. That doesn't mean it will work on everything.

With that said, in vQ3/QL there's no need for it. I'm no cpm expert by any means, which seems will be the core of reflex, but if you look at the gameplay and maps it's also clear that the hook is not necessary there as well.

Did you play QW CTF? Cus the grapple in Q2 was pathetic with those physics. CTF is about planning, nothing else. How many rocket jumps can you make to get to an area where you should be which is miles away? How many noobs can get to the weapon that they need to help defend, or do anything purposeful for the team in time?

If the movement is fluid then there is a chance, but as you said, your no cpm expert, nor me, and most noobs and experienced players struggle with movement, but know that they should be somewhere and fast, "but fail", and lose constantly. Losers don't stay in games. But I am sure we will see how it all turns out.

As for QL and vQ3 well that's debateable with a proper grapple / physics relationship.

I am not suggesting that it is the only form of CTF as I am sure that a simple test of both options with and without a "good" grapple (in relation to the physics of the game) would tell what worked best with the people..

Of course, but think about it: Q2's ctf would have been unplayable without the grappling hook. Imagine q2ctf1's hallways and the bases without the hook, lol.

On the other hand,in cpm/reflex, vq3 or whatever the hook would be just an addition to a game that's perfectly fine without it. In cpm everyone can go through corners strafing, everyone has quite good initial speed, etc. In vq3 there's trick jumps in every map and it takes one rocket jump to go through mid.

In the end what I say is that the whole game/mod has to be made with the grappling hook in mind, or coincidentally work really well with it due that the gameplay and maps aren't fluid. Just adding a hook for adding it is unnecessary, in the sense that if reflex is based on cpm then reflex shouldn't have a grapple in ctf..

I just hope the game is a success with or without the grapple FULLSTOP. Just hopes it has built in factors to help it attract newbies, which has the "drawn to" factor that the games we love do..

True that would be lol on those maps. But that's why huge numbers left the QW and Q2 CTF scene and went to play "Tribes", or a game with some sort of vertical air control.

You say perfectly fine, well perhaps the balance of the narrow corridors, and a trick rj, is the way it will be, making it that type of skill, with predictable patterns. DM with flags again, so the dominators will be the strong movement and DM'ers. Not noob friendly, and that volume of same population / community?

Yes the grapple was a masterpiece, working well with the physics / fast game play and CTF strategies. imo it was the best thing ever done for "player population of servers and retention" in that mod, as most people found it fun, especially noobs. Unfortunately Q2 came out. But things have to move on, and Q2 & then Q3 had their positives, but downside was the decline of QW then Q2. Same patterns happen over time. Hopefully this is the winner, and is timeless :)

All I want is for a game to succeed with longevity. If its not possible, then who cares. If it is possible to add as an optional server choice, then it may work. Perhaps better than the QL "flight" thingy...

Oh, hook definitely works for attracting new players as seen in Xonotic. However they mostly play instagib and don't learn the basic movement skills or regular weapons, it's a double edged sword, spear, wand or whatever. Hook in Xonotic is nearly the same, differences are that it pulls you in on top of the swing and you can't jump after releasing the grip.

Such rampage, loved it.

if xonotic had tdm tourneys or decent 1v1 tourneys with prizes, it would definitely attract some of the better instagib players away. these casual modes like instagib/grapple ctf are extremely useful tools for picking new blood.

May try it out in single player see what its all about.

go for it :) free game, i believe
have fun

There hasn't been prizes so far that I know of, however there's an invitational 1v1 cup coming up October with a small prize money coming from community donations (95€ at the moment). It's a start but it's not really that far to make it be about the money.

http://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=5026

In general Xonotic has had plenty of quick cups and tourneys for both vanilla and instagib, which so far could only offer the reward of success and bonding of the community.

I'm not really a fan of grapple. Its about as annoying as things like the UT translocator.

Spamming an op movmement mechanic all game gets really old. If it was limited so players would only use it at clutch moments that would be ok but generally I think its not necessary.

I am really interested in reflex ctf. Not keen on grapple though.

I love CTF too, either way, with or without I would play it. However if I knew that it was with grapple, or the movements got me there in time, (without grapple) to do what I needed to do, then its all good.

As for limitation either have it or don't, You don't limit people rj's, jumps, crouch's, (or speed) so why limit another similar vertical movement, which helps the game become less horizontal. Unless your limitations are your m_pitch, or reaction times, then I don't see the problems.

Surely any good aimer would be able to pluck someone out of the sky like a clay pigeon, and / or pin. So I don't see any problems there either.

translocatator has absolutely nothing on the qw grapple, lol. wtf
devices may be boring to you, but newbies absolutely love them and our scene is desperate for newbies, if you haven't been noticing.

i'm good playing ctf with or without a grapple
i just hope we see a grapple, so we could get more new blood

I think they are both shit. I wouldnt explode if reflex had a grapple but I'd rather it didnt

explode, really? u gotta be trolling
don't reply back

By "I wouldnt explode" I meant I wouldnt be too pissed off.

I'm explaining this to you because I assume you didnt understand what I wrote. In the unlikely event that you did understand and was annoyed anyway then theres no hope for you.

Angry when I am bothered by it. Angry when I say it wouldnt bother me too much. Angry.

i'm sleepy, i just misread

Translocator was prolly the only fun in UT.

UT was already no fun to move around in. For me the translocator just made it worse.

Especially when everyone was using it 24/7

If grapple is added for ctf, then maps created by community will support it. I dont think we got much to worry about.

The thing I wonder about is if reflex will allow people to work on their own mods like the other quake games did. That would be the Shiz.

Thats good news

BTW QL did not die in 2 years. It's been going on since 2008 to this day. It's been really close to being knocked out many times, but it refuses to go down.

Also Q3's gameplay is really old yes, but it's been 'alive' for 15 years and counting. That's way more than what doom 1 and 2, q1, qw, q2, doom3, pk, q4, shootmania, warsow and cpm lasted, all of which realistically died a long while ago.

i knew someone would call me out for that

go on any major forum and see their quakelive thread(teamliquid, mlg, etc), ask them if they still play the game
this is what you ALWAYS HEAR

"lolno, we all stopped playing in 2010 or 2011"

I can't count how many times i've seen that.
the game died with casuals in 2010-2011!
the hardcore NA team scene died out around the same time, too

QW has more tdm teams than quakelive right now and probably more ctf teams. that's just sad, opieop
the only legit mode for ql that is still being played is 1v1 and that is almost dead, too

Facts are QL is still up as a service, still has thousands of players and tournaments every day with prize money going on (today included), plus it has had dozens of major lans in its relatively short live. It's a niche game yes, but not dead.

QW didn't have one major lan ever, no small or big lans for years, no tournament that we know of and to the very best has 50 players playing right now. That's dead to me.

if ql died tomorrow...not many would care(a few zealots would cry, but they'd quickly get over it)
nobody is going back to q3 and you know it

qw will outlive vq3
you will be proven wrong soon

Would have to revive first :P, which we know is not going to happen as QW has been dead for more than 10 years.

What you are saying is "dude amiga will outlive the xbox360 because I will still use it in 20 years from now".

you really think q3 has a chance of being revived? LOL
i'm at a loss for words.
ttyl :)

Never said that. Quote? Read before replying.

Though now that you mention it, when QL dies (whenever that might happen) a portion of those players will go to Q3, probably reviving it to playable levels which is something all the mentioned games can't say. The same happened when Q4 died and, as we know, the best period of competitive quake ever was roughly in that time (late Q4, Q3 revival, early QL).

In other words, when QL dies Q3 will have way, way, way more players than Q1, QW, Q2, CPM and Q4 combined, for sure.

If reflex flops, i doubt it will, but if it does, qw will have an epic comeback.



yes, i remade this post. deal with it

ur dumb

ur boring

ur dumb

With your obsession to Q3 you're forgetting that to get QW you don't have to buy it or loiter around the internet for a reliable pirate version, QW is more user friendly and easier to get access to. You're also forgetting there's more players familiar with QW movement than any Quake has players combined. If Q3 vs QW became a new marketing campaign, I'm confident QW would cash in most of the hardcore gamers.

he knows QW is better than Q3
he just gets off trolling QW fans for some odd reason

Really?

Q3 is as free as QW is, which is....not free, but very widely pirated. Hint: iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

QW movement is not more familiar than Q3 movement by any means whatsoever Some people here are really stuck in their own niche. Name 3 popular games that have QW-like movement. I can name you 30 that have similar movement to Q3 or even use it's engine, of those which will be way more popular than your examples.

Counter Strike
Team Fortress
Portal
Half Life

+ Their sequels and expansion sets. All of which have bigger playerbase than any Quake. All of which have a very engine exploiting community familiar with air strafing, which is exactly the same in QW.
Speedrunning scene is still very active in Half Life and Portal, which originates from QW btw, I'm pretty sure they would (and already have) undoubtedly pick QW over Q3 any day. Name me one game that uses Quake3 engine, that is actually more popular than Q3/Live itself.

- All cods.

gg in one line. That includes your last sentence as well, with 8 out of 10 cods still using the q3 engine.

now use pc games only


gg in one line.

Indeed, cod players are infamous for their relentless and violent admiration to Quake3.

Just like cs players to qw, you mean? You think more than 0.01% of cs:go players have even heard about the existence of qw?

The top three servers on Gametracker for CS:GO are surf servers, so yes. If they're not so much in it for the shooting part, they would at least have an edge with the movement in QW instead of Q3. There's barely 2 videos of Modern Wankware with some doofus doing a circle jump of the most insignificance to the overall movement required in the maps.

These new ESR users don't read the posts they are replying to at all and they have logic as twisted as jamerio's, lol.

Oh, it's about time of contribution now? Very mature debating, sir. You're not so attentive with my posts either regardless of being from the 2005 wave, sir. Permission to speak freely btw, sir.

q3 is on steam. it doesn't get any more accessible than that.

QW is free. There you go, more accessible.

qw requires q1 files, so no, it's not free. price =/= accessibility either.

Q1 files are only needed for the campaign. Which is also something Q3/Live doesn't have.

http://nquake.sourceforge.net/

Oh, look! It got support for Linux too. Have fun.

didn't know. i just saw ezquake as the first thing and it says you need quake 1. cool.

You can play nquake for free, and I think you get the first episode free. Obviously Multiplayer is free with nquake, and all the settings binds aliases are optimised of years of refining. Pretty hard not to find it easy to play from start.

(on Steam current prices - Ł6.99 to buy for the rest of the episodes. Or for Q1 2 & 3 and mission packs for about Ł16.99)

Although I look forward to the future of Reflex.

You were half right though. Ezquake is a client for the multiplayer which alone would require Q1 files. nQuake is a package including Ezquake and everything you need to play online.

what should I download to set up a QW LAN server for coop with a few friends?

Think just nquake? If not then you may have to buy quake from Steam. Have fun.

I'm not really sure, I've never explored that realm. Maybe these will help, or maybe not:

http://virtuallyfun.superglobalmegacorp.com/?p=4383

http://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/topic/4934/how...ed-vanilla

http://quakeone.com/forums/quake-help/servers...erver.html

tried this a few months ago and it's quite hard actually, or maybe me and my mates are clueless fucks. probably the latter.

Few seconds of google...

http://wiki.quakeworld.nu/TGI
http://wiki.quakeworld.nu/QHLAN
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1790096

I'm sure there were many more too. You should stop talking about things you know nothing about.

QL is still an active service, QW has been underground for years. It's not surprising QL is the most active Quake left. The QL scene has always been pathetic in NA though compared to what it was for Q1-Q2-Q3.

Read your own links, lol. None of those was a major lan and they haven't been done in years.

> QW didn't have one major LAN ever

Interesting, where did this whole 'Quakecon' thing come from again?

Q1 =/ QW

And those two (1996 and 1997) weren't major lans by any means whatsoever.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuakeCon

2001 CPL, quakeworld duel:

1st- harlsom, $5000

2nd - core, $3000

3rd - czm, $2000

4th - fiend, $1500

5th - xoque, $1200

6th - fatal1ty, $1000

7th - zero4, $800

8th - rix, $500

"And as the folklore goes: Harlsom: 'for prac for cpl, spice came around to my place and we lanned nonstop for like 2 days straight. then i played reload, an extremely rusty reload, after 2 days of hard gaming. and he raped me'"

Official id Software development stopped with the test release of QuakeWorld 2.33 on December 21, 1998.

support was dropped before esports had really arrived, so it's no shock that there weren't many pro-lans.

community lans are more impressive to me, anyways.

It has nothing to do with "support" being dropped or anything : it just has to do with the game being released in 1996.
The big LAN events didn't happen yet ( even tho demoparties were getting invaded by fucking morons coming there to...lan ), let alone those pipe dream esports events.

Q2 had a tiny, tiny bit more " esports " presence during 1999.
Q3 was released at the luckiest possible time ( y2k, cheaper interwebz, online cyberwarriorrrrrrz ). A year earlier or later and it'd have bombed really fucking hard according to megaman's "standards".

yeah that was a problem with BIG LAN capabilities at that time. I was really impressed with netgamez organisation and structure at that time, with all the web interfacing system they had, and network infrastructure etc etc. . They were well advanced. the LAN capabilities for this game were good, as loads did it locally, my brother connected a wire over the roofs to his m8s house and played, and was awesome crack. Yes if the game was released with the modernisation of LAN, and global swing to game titles as it is now, then things would have been massively different.

hm.. yeah quakeworld didn't have a ferrari up for grabs at a lan ever... what a shit game

the game died with casuals in 2010-2011!

and how many casuals in qw/cpm/whatever? you're like the first person i know who is able to shoot off his dick with full intent

newbies(first time quake players) is what i meant by casuals
first time quake players dropped it en masse in 2010-2011

QL died real fast in NA for TDM/CTF, not sure if it was 2 years but it was quick. The QL scene for that was very small especially if you compared to how big Q1-Q2-Q3 were. I only play Quake seriously for TDM/CTF, if those aren't around I check out. I think most of the community is similar. We like to watch all the pros duel but duel has never been what drives the community in Quake.

I'd argue all those games you said are dead are still alive. I'll just start with Doom 2 since that's the oldest -

http://doomleague.org/sites/wdl/
http://intldoomleague.com/

Hey look at that a dead game with two separate CTF leagues that are actively running! I could find similar for all the other dead games you listed. The thing is none of these leagues are big or what I consider healthy. The same would be said for the QL scene, at least in NA I'm not sure about EU but EU has always had bigger scenes than NA.

QW?

Erm...cough, cough.

QW is awesome. There is much to be learned from it in modern games imo.

dito +

Run speed is 320 ups in both qw and cpm. It's the reduced ground friction that allows you to move in excess of 400 ups while strafe dodging. QW friction is 4 cpm is 8.

thanks for the explanation

Don't forget wallhug.

reflex rockets feel more like qw than cpm; speed, prediction and battles, knockback is pretty similar as well

niiice

any interest from the devs about increasing the run speed or lowering the ground friction? this would make the game less random by reducing the amount of jumps and make spawn killing more of a skill than it is.

Everyone thinks that spawns are automatic deadmeat in QW, but they can return quite a bit of damage if they have good dodging, even top players like milton sometimes struggle with spawns.




post edited for clarity

That's the weirdest fucking way to highlight differences ( which I'm not even sure are actual things rather than down to how people play ) between cpm and qw I've ever seen.

I think the spawn system in CPMA has more to do with spawn killing than the ground speed. It's very predictable where you spawn in Aerowalk due to 'spawn_furthest' or some crap like that being applied. It's a problem present mostly in Aerowalk only afaik, in contrast the system works great in cpm3a and cpm15.

in contrast the system works great in cpm3a and cpm15.

No, it is highly exploitable on cpm3a as well.

100% Random is and will always be the best and most fair spawn system.

It's actually a biased random system -- you can spawn right next to someone but you're more likely to spawn further from where you died. We're planning a similar system in Reflex but we'll probably tweak the odds to keep things as random as possible before problems with repeated spawn frags creep back in.

No mention of qw tdm beyond backpacks? Is this the main difference you see between every other FPS and qw tdm? Backpacks?!

:(

i only mentioned 3 things
relax, homey

Do you even play QuakeWorld?
No offense, it sounds like you are nerding out about QW's legacy and you don't have much experience there.

QW is superb in TDM, the combination of SG flooders, strong powerups (quad every minute), strong items (RA, RL/LG), backpacks that build up ammo over time (100 cell/rockets!!), rarity of weapons/dropping, spawn kills, excellent maps, and all the slick features (QTV, MVDs, overview map, autotrack, scripts/variables/binds, etc) make it the best TDM in Quake.

The problem I think is having the best TDM and the best duel seems an impossibility since they require different things. Not to mention other game modes like FFA and CTF. I think it's impossible to design the best version of duel, TDM and CTF and have them all share everything. I think QL duel is better than QW but QW isn't bad. The main problem in QW duel is how important LG is. If you can out LG people you can pretty much dominate them. Xamp was a good example of this in EU. Kovaak was the example in NA.

I just hope Reflex focuses on things like TDM/CTF because that's what really is popular and builds community. Duel is the most niche of Quake modes and I think it got way more spotlight than it deserves. It's an easy cheap way for sponsors to get what they want, publicity, with only having small lans.

"The problem I think is having the best TDM and the best duel seems an impossibility since they require different things."

different armor absorption for different modes(team vs 1v1/ffa) :O
maybe?

if anyone can fix this conundrum, it's newborn and co.
i have faith


great post, btw

different armor absorption for different modes

No, that's shitty design. The proper way to do it is to be fine with the idea that on paper duel isn't the greatest thing in the world but, hey, it's fun and does the job so fuck being the greatest thing in the world on paper.

different armor absorption for different modes(team vs 1v1/ffa)

This kind of stuff is always difficult. Generally, the more consistency you can keep across all game modes, the better. Sometimes, this isn't possible if you're aiming for the best possible gameplay for each mode.

Armor absorption would probably be one of the last things I'd consider changing per mode -- it's already obscure and magic enough ;).

There's still some scope to do this just through mapping though if someone wanted to challenge the general TDM item set of 2x YA and 1x RA.

Anyway, before we have TDM we will have xTDM, filled with experimental changes. The ones that work will end up in TDM. The ones that don't will end up in the bin.

I'm actually pretty interested to see how some of these experiments play out. Even if they end up being terrible for gameplay, the reasons why they don't work will be interesting "for science".

But I'm not talking about those changes yet because it could turn in to a giant argument so I'd rather have in-game evidence to up my opinions ;)

understandable
another possible route could be changing the starting health
100h spawns for tdm and ctf
125 health for duel
that might be an improvement

you know this sort of makes sense in relation to the game types. Its always been about Team Team Team, and controlling spawn points, and the rest, all this 125 hp, means less spawn control. But again I suppose it all depends on the weapon dmg.

I fully support experimenting but it might be hard to do especially in team modes where you need more players. Not sure you can really experiment in a public beta or whatever for instance.

If we can't find 8 people to play a few games, we've got bigger problems than how to tweak TDM ;)

QW is shit because everyone uses safe weapon scripts and only play 3 maps. Not to mention having 2 overopwered weapons while the rest are useless. You should be ashame. The only thing qw has going for it is that tdm actually had enough players for a long time.

OBJECTION!

OBJECTION!

"+" just cus you said grapple.

4.41 nice frag :)

beautiful idd.

first 2 minutes show how unimportant control in cpm is :D i start to wonder if CoD is not more complex than CPM

Reflex should ignore everyone and make their own game. Every fan boy is going to be clamouring to get their favourite gametype made.

I know you think your opinion is best, but in truth you are just the same as everyone else who thinks that.

I definitely agree, QW is my favorite Quake but I'd rather they take some risks and try some new stuff than copy QW or CPM, etc. The problem is a lot of the greatest gameplay in Quake came about by accident. We can try to analyze it and propagate good gameplay but it's tough. If we discuss various games maybe they'll get inspired with an idea or two that'll work for Reflex.

why make huge changes when this is your base game?
marketing and hype is what the team needs to add the most. maybe they could get some sponsors like maverickservers to hype up the game? :P

This isn't as appealing as you think it is. You would think that after all these years that would be obvious...

Isn't the saying 'doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the very definition of insanity' rather well known? It seems lots of people have forgotten it and suffer from delusions... I'm sorry but it's true.

If you are referring to that innovative crap then see you in Xonotic or gtfo.

isn't appealing? looks way funner than your average ql movie.
if reflex improves the weapon balance(strong weapons ftw), physics, and maps, it will shit all over ql..all over it.

making an improved cpm isn't insane at all
remaking quake 3 for a third time would be tho

Well, you don't know that - ql survives thanks to brand recognition and reflex wont have that. For most people, the difference will be hard to distinguish as they won't have the advanced skills that differentiate the two games. I guess we will have to wait and see but I doubt reflex will have a lasting impact. I just don't think it has broad appeal.

that cpm video looks like shit. poor copy of pql.

and i dont think ql died cause of gameplay. more like cause of not having any features aside from the original q3 ones. for example: missing matchmaking.

edit: also reflex has no chance of being played by even half of ql's plyerbase. it's just cpma with updated graphics.

how'd you know?

After id sucking its own dick I will play anything \o/

How is it a poor copy of pql?

Maybe the gameplay is inspired by pql but at least cmpa is being developed actively.

dont ever bother replying to esdf

hahahaha

QuakeWorld 4v4 is pretty close to perfect when it comes to gameplay imo. I don't want to write out a huge essay but basically if you aren't familiar with it, it allows for the following:

- heavy focus and rewarding gameplay for teamplay
- very rewarding of indivdual skill (movement, aim, crisis management)
- very fast pace, seemingly chaotic but structured
- huge importance for team communication (the skill ceiling for this is pretty high)
- resources are SO good that a LOT can be possible with a single RL, LG, Quad, Red, etc, there are always implications that are very visible from players who pick this up for their team, or deny it for the other team
- clear mitigating factors for teams who are out of control to always have a chance to get back in the game
- due to all the above, it's VERY clear who to spectate to see all the action and get a great overview of what's happening on the map, thus making it the most spectator friendly team game in Quake history (imo) without sacrificing any depth

Now this could easily be turned into a 7 part article lol, but you get the idea, it is truly the most wonderful of accidents that QW 4v4 exists and it's a shame that it's suffering lately after being healthy for many more years than it ever should have reasonably had.

For anyone curious of some of the decision making required, I am reminded of some old videos that I recorded a long time ago where you can see that I explain every single decision that was going on in that game. A game that I had pretty horrible ping in (80ish) and one where I was making quite a few executional mistakes, but you can see how effective good decision making can be with good team communication vs some of the best players in qw 4v4.

There's also this playlist which is a collection of some guides I made which (hopefully) clearly illustrate some of the important principles at play in qw tdm for those interested. Damn, kinda miss this game :D.

edit: actually one thing I just wanna throw in there that I thought was really cool about qw was to do with its movement system. The movement is really free and can be utilised infight in spectacular ways, but more to the point, it's limited as well. Some people feel it's a bad point of qw that you cannot continue your speed with stairs, but this is (by accident ofcourse) a clever game mechanic that prevents movement from trumping the strength of positional advantages and choke points-- which is pretty smart, not to mention important imo for a well structured game. It makes it much easier for map makers I think also.

I'm sure if Reflex devs listen to feedback from players like you (unlike some other devs) during alpha/beta they'll get it right :)

P.S. your QW looks pretty

this man knows his shit.
get him on the design team ;p

He can't have my job.

It's mine.

I like it.

We'll always be listening to well thought out and articulately argued feedback that fits with the direction we want to take the game in. We'll do this regardless of the source of the feedback (even rampant trolls) but experienced players who have studied the gameplay like DDK will always get their thoughts heard.

Quakeworld is just tattooed onto my soul.

I actually loathe to view material on it because it gets me all excited to play it again, and it's really dead.

It's only dead because you're not playing.

Made me feel sad what you said at the end. Watch ddk's overcasts, will make you have fond memories.

/me sits feet up by fire watching youtube / vods, with trusty rocket launcher on the mantelpiece, with grapple swinging beside it.

I otherwise agree with everything but

- due to all the above, it's VERY clear who to spectate to see all the action and get a great overview of what's happening on the map, thus making it the most spectator friendly team game in Quake history (imo) without sacrificing any depth

This requires more knowledge of the game/maps in order to get anything out of it, when compared to duels for example. I think if it had some sort of minimap kinda like CSGO, where the spectator could better see what's going on overall, it would be better.

Just use autotrack, it's amazing and catches most of the action. EZQuake has had an overview map for years.

http://ezquake.sourceforge.net/gallery/teamplay_hud_features.jpg

wow, that's fucking awesome

Well, with autotrack and a fairly competent commentator it should be easy enough for the layman! Autotrack creates a situation where you always follow the most stacked player and, due to the way gameplay works, that player gives a very clear overview (whilst showing exciting action) of the state of that team and also the other team. Plus when speccing in QW there's a counter showing how many RLs each team has, which also gives you a very good idea of how ready a team is to make a fight happen (dm2 for example at Quad) or how contested control is.

looks like I was just uneducated here, this sounds fantastic

I can elaborate just a little more on it too, on a map like dm3, if you're following the most stacked guy who also has an RL- the RL players have certain jobs so, if he's not locking down the ring/RA area then it's very likely the control is contested as he cannot afford to give up what I refer to as the "first level of control". Control starts at RA and extends outwards for teams on dm3, once you have another player with a weapon, then he's able to challenge for YA's etc and pressure the weapons a little, or just light pressure the YA area whilst keeping Quad/ring side of the map safe and switching with RA as is necessary. So there's a pretty clear structure typically with good teams as everyone knows the best way to play the maps after 14 years :).

how to make QW look like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc6N5EElB1I&a...UTCxMsczEg

Interwebz dying so I can't check but I assume it's this texture pack + a variation of dithes' hud

thanks, but it works in multiplayer?

Yes.

Why wouldn't it ?

I got in the past super hiper HD mega texture pack, but only for SP :p

thanks.

Sounds both retarded and highly unlikely, was most likely the client itself not allowing it.

ok, I think I will try QW again :P

and just found this:
http://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/topic/6087/qw-...-shit-pack

You're making me want to play QW too, not a bad idea at all since QL is getting ready for console port and waiting for Reflex is becoming worse than waiting for the next Game of Thrones season

QW ftw :)

nQuake got HD textures too and its easy to install, jumping is so cool, and I fkin love QW rocket launcher ;d

... just sayin' :D

<3

http://esreality.com/post/2650196/play-more-quakeworld-d/ :P

in ddk's youtube channel you can also watch him shit his pants

lol he hides in locker :)

"just a normal breathing locker" lol

Sometimes tha lack of crouching is a bit annoying tho.

"Look to QW" doesn't mean "clone it in its entirety" just fyi.

And how does this even relate to my post?

Just saying you can pull the good shit from QW and add now-standard dm features like crouching.

Well, it's obvious, but I was commenting on QW.

that game so good, the music :) the axe murder, and Milton & carapace quad run. those rockets in air constant fun. Can't you put this into QW reincarnation thread :)